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'ICD Project'
2000\03\09@085730 by Brian Jones

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Following up on James Newton's enthusiasm for ICD - there's a
cool implementation available here in the UK. The March edition
of Everday Practical Electronics magazine featured an ICD
project. It uses a 16F877 with the top 4K programmed to provide
ICD and serial functions and the remaining 4K for user programs.

Magenta electronics have made a kit which includes PCB, 16F877,
LCD, stepper motor, relay and all other components (including
power supply and serial lead!). This is amazing at 34UKP (ie
c50USD)

I built mine last weekend - have had little time to play but it seems
to work OK - you develop as normal on MPLAB and then use the
provided windows PC software to download to the 16F877.
Breakpoints and single step seem to work OK.Setting watches and
changing registers works fine also.  Negative points -  no 'step over'
for subroutines and occassionally the 'stop' function returns a
comms error (this could of course be a hardware problem due to
bad building :-)    ).

Should anyone be tempted check that Magenta include a
photocopy of the original article - they didn't with mine (didn't
matter as I had it anyway) but would be difficult to build without it.
Probably an oversight as I know they've been busy meeting the
demands for this kit.

BTW Everyday Practical Electronics is available on line in PDF
format for 9.99 USD which is annoying since I subscribed to the
paper version at 4 bucks a copy!

look at http://www.epemag.com/FRMPROJ.HTM and
http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/0300.htm for details of the project
and http://www.magenta2000.co.uk/kits/900.htm for details of the kit.

Standard disclaimer - nothing to do with this project, kit or mag etc.


Brian Jones
Brian E Jones
Centre for Java Technology
IBM HURSLEY

2000\03\10@015159 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <spam_OUT200003091355.NAA24156TakeThisOuTspamsp3at21.hursley.ibm.com>, Brian Jones
<.....bejonesKILLspamspam@spam@HURSLEY.IBM.COM> writes
>Following up on James Newton's enthusiasm for ICD - there's a
>cool implementation available here in the UK. The March edition
>of Everday Practical Electronics magazine featured an ICD
>project. It uses a 16F877 with the top 4K programmed to provide
>ICD and serial functions and the remaining 4K for user programs.
>
>Magenta electronics have made a kit which includes PCB, 16F877,
>LCD, stepper motor, relay and all other components (including
>power supply and serial lead!). This is amazing at 34UKP (ie
>c50USD)

I was impressed as well!.

>I built mine last weekend - have had little time to play but it seems
>to work OK - you develop as normal on MPLAB and then use the
>provided windows PC software to download to the 16F877.
>Breakpoints and single step seem to work OK.Setting watches and
>changing registers works fine also.  Negative points -  no 'step over'
>for subroutines and occassionally the 'stop' function returns a
>comms error (this could of course be a hardware problem due to
>bad building :-)    ).

I've just built mine today (I ordered it Monday and it came Thursday), I
also get an occasional comms error on stop, but apart from that it seems
to work fine. They supply three sample programs, the usual LED flasher,
a stepper motor driver, and an LCD driver - I haven't been able to get
the LCD driver working yet, but the other two work fine, I'll have to
try single-stepping through the code.

>Should anyone be tempted check that Magenta include a
>photocopy of the original article - they didn't with mine (didn't
>matter as I had it anyway) but would be difficult to build without it.
>Probably an oversight as I know they've been busy meeting the
>demands for this kit.

I didn't get a copy of the article either, again I had the original so
it didn't matter - previous orders from Magenta have always included a
copy of the original article.

--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : nigelgspamKILLspamlpilsley.demon.co.uk     |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk |
       | Chesterfield    | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit   |
       | England         |                 Ju Jitsu                   |
       \--------------------------------------------------------------/

2000\03\10@110910 by Dan Michaels

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At 07:38 PM 3/9/00 +0000, you wrote:
>In message <.....200003091355.NAA24156KILLspamspam.....sp3at21.hursley.ibm.com>, Brian Jones
><EraseMEbejonesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTHURSLEY.IBM.COM> writes
>>Following up on James Newton's enthusiasm for ICD - there's a
>>cool implementation available here in the UK. The March edition
>>of Everday Practical Electronics magazine featured an ICD
>>project. It uses a 16F877 with the top 4K programmed to provide
>>ICD and serial functions and the remaining 4K for user programs.
>>
...
>
>I've just built mine today (I ordered it Monday and it came Thursday), I
>also get an occasional comms error on stop, but apart from that it seems
>to work fine. They supply three sample programs, the usual LED flasher,
...
>

The Magenta website has downloadable documentation with board
schematics. It appears the RS-232 comm uses non-std levels, ie
0-5v, no negative-going voltages. This may explain your comm
problems.

Do you know whether MPLAB can talk to the ICD directly?

- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
http://www.sni.net/~oricom
==========================

2000\03\10@112609 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Yes, MPLAB is integrated with the ICD. The Magenta ICE Breaker proves that
the serial ICD without a module idea can be done, but as their firmware is
still not open source, and can't be combined with test bench functions and
programming / testing ability for other target processors, there are "miles
to go before we rest".

---
James Newton jamesnewtonspamspam_OUTgeocities.com 1-619-652-0593
http://techref.massmind.org NEW! FINALLY A REAL NAME!
Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting)


{Original Message removed}

2000\03\10@120108 by Dan Michaels

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>>
>>Do you know whether MPLAB can talk to the ICD directly?
>>

At 08:23 AM 3/10/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Yes, MPLAB is integrated with the ICD. The Magenta ICE Breaker proves that
>the serial ICD without a module idea can be done, but as their firmware is
>still not open source, and can't be combined with test bench functions and
>programming / testing ability for other target processors, there are "miles
>to go before we rest".
>
>---
>James Newton
>

The Magenta ICD comes with its own 668KB debug utility (if you can call
668K a utility) to communicate with the pcb. From the documentation,
it's not clear whether the pcb can actually talk to MPLAB directly.

- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
http://www.sni.net/~oricom
==========================

2000\03\11@020154 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <@spam@1.5.4.16.20000310084600.355fbf32KILLspamspamlynx.sni.net>, Dan Michaels
<KILLspamoricomKILLspamspamLYNX.SNI.NET> writes
>>I've just built mine today (I ordered it Monday and it came Thursday), I
>>also get an occasional comms error on stop, but apart from that it seems
>>to work fine. They supply three sample programs, the usual LED flasher,
>...
>>
>
>The Magenta website has downloadable documentation with board
>schematics. It appears the RS-232 comm uses non-std levels, ie
>0-5v, no negative-going voltages. This may explain your comm
>problems.
>
>Do you know whether MPLAB can talk to the ICD directly?
>

AFAIK only the Icebreaker software can talk to the board, although I've
not played with it much yet. The original article states "The software
is designed to be run in conjunction with Microchip's MPLAB software",
and also "MPLAB is used in 'editor only' mode".
--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : RemoveMEnigelgTakeThisOuTspamlpilsley.demon.co.uk     |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk |
       | Chesterfield    | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit   |
       | England         |                 Ju Jitsu                   |
       \--------------------------------------------------------------/

2000\03\11@060404 by Arthur Brown

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----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re:      Re: ICD Project

The Magenta Icebreaker has a ASM to pic loader for this it uses the top area
of the eerom so I don't think it would use MPLAB direct.
User programs run in lower 4k the upper 4k is not avalible for use. I also
have comms problems and Nigel may have hit on the problem but you can ignore
the reported errors as the program stop then reports the error

all the best art spamBeGoneArthur.asccispamBeGonespamcableinet.co.uk


| ----- Original Message -----
| From: Nigel Goodwin <TakeThisOuTnigelgEraseMEspamspam_OUTLPILSLEY.DEMON.CO.UK>
| To: <RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
| Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 6:59 PM
|
| Subject: Re: ICD Project|
| | In message <1.5.4.16.20000310084600.355fbf32EraseMEspam.....lynx.sni.net>, Dan Michaels
| | <EraseMEoricomspamLYNX.SNI.NET> writes
| | >>I've just built mine today (I ordered it Monday and it came Thursday),
I
| | >>also get an occasional comms error on stop, but apart from that it
seems
| | >>to work fine. They supply three sample programs, the usual LED
flasher,
| --------snip----------
| | >The Magenta website has downloadable documentation with board
| | >schematics. It appears the RS-232 comm uses non-std levels, ie
| | >0-5v, no negative-going voltages. This may explain your comm
| | >problems.
| | >
| | >Do you know whether MPLAB can talk to the ICD directly?
|

2000\03\11@124631 by Dan Michaels

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[snippets]
>
>AFAIK only the Icebreaker software can talk to the board, although I've
>not played with it much yet. The original article states "The software
>is designed to be run in conjunction with Microchip's MPLAB software",
>and also "MPLAB is used in 'editor only' mode".
>
>Nigel.
>
....
>The Magenta Icebreaker has a ASM to pic loader for this it uses the top area
>of the eerom so I don't think it would use MPLAB direct.
>User programs run in lower 4k the upper 4k is not avalible for use. I also
>have comms problems and Nigel may have hit on the problem but you can ignore
>the reported errors as the program stop then reports the error
>
>all the best art RemoveMEArthur.ascciEraseMEspamEraseMEcableinet.co.uk
....


To James Newton, regarding your conjecture about using the '877
as a 1-chip do-everything dev platform:

I picked up the March EPE mag and read the ICEBreaker article, and as
Nigel and Arthur indicate, it looks as though:

a) With the ICEBreaker, you use MPLAB only for code development &
  assembly, not to talk to the '877 chip directly.

b) With the ICEBreaker system, you must Magenta's *own* specially
  pre-programmed '877 chip, which has the debug/monitor code located
  and code-protected in the upper 4K. This code appears to be written
  specifically to mate with their 668K debug utility, not with MPLAB.

Also,

c) Regarding the Microchip and Adv-Transdata ICDs, they can both (apparently)
  be run under MPLAB, but both use 2-chip sets. The 1st chip is located
  on the ICD proper, and the 2nd is the '877 target chip. The 1st chip
  is there to translate MPLAB cmds, and also to control debug ops on the
  target.

So, for what you want to do, it is probably possible to duplicate what
the ICEBreaker does, but also make it MPLAB-compatible. Take the translation
code that is resident on the ICDs' master chip, and stick that into the
target '877 chip upper 4K space. Saves you having to write your own 668K
utility.

- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
http://www.sni.net/~oricom
==========================

2000\03\13@114410 by Brian Jones

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Nigel
          check the R/S and E lines for the LCD. Can't remember
what the readme says but the comments at the top of the code
have them wrong. Go look at the code EQUs where the lines are
defined.

I wired mine as per comments and with the contrast pot high got
an overdriven full screen of black dye which has now left a brown
tinge to the edge of the LCD :-(

I also get the odd stop errors (good its both of us so I don't have to
suspect poor building by me). My only other comment is that
changing a variable to 0x01 seemed to require more keystrokes
than needed. Entering 0 seems to set the variable to 00 so the
subsequent one is taken as most significant and starts entering a
0x1. value. I needed to enter 0, right cursor, enter one - which was
odd.

minor nits - a nice project.

Brian
Brian E Jones
Centre for Java Technology
IBM HURSLEY

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