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'How to use Datarase II for PIC16c74a ?'
1998\02\17@214713 by Allan Grant

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What is the best time to erase PIC16c74A with Datarase II (Walling Co)?
Can I spoil the chip if I will erase longer time then necessary?
Thanks, Allan Grant spam_OUTagrantTakeThisOuTspamiq-corp.com

1998\02\17@221219 by Andrew Warren

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Allan Grant <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> What is the best time to erase PIC16c74A with Datarase II (Walling
> Co)?

   Allan:

   I've found that the Datarase II usually takes 8-15 minutes to
   erase those chips.  Your times may vary.

> Can I spoil the chip if I will erase longer time then necessary?

   No.

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren - fastfwdspamKILLspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1998\02\17@225328 by richard skinner

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Where can we find the Datarase?  I'm interested in an inexpensive eraser so I
can start with JW parts.
Thanks
Richard Skinner
.....rwskinnerKILLspamspam.....worldnet.att.net
http://home.att.net/~rwskinner

----------
{Quote hidden}

1998\02\17@231214 by Andrew Warren

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richard skinner <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Where can we find the Datarase?  I'm interested in an inexpensive
> eraser so I can start with JW parts.

Richard:

Digi-Key (800 DIG-IKEY) sells them for around $30-40; make sure you
get the "Datarase II", which has a built-in timer.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - spamBeGonefastfwdspamBeGonespamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1998\02\17@234807 by Sean Breheny

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At 08:10 PM 2/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>richard skinner <TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:
>
>> Where can we find the Datarase?  I'm interested in an inexpensive
>> eraser so I can start with JW parts.
>
>Richard:
>
>Digi-Key (800 DIG-IKEY) sells them for around $30-40; make sure you
>get the "Datarase II", which has a built-in timer.
>
>-Andy

Actually, there are two models of the Datarase II, only one of which has
the timer. Just make sure that the one you are getting has the timer.

Sean


+--------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                   |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM |
| Electrical Engineering Student |
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Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315

1998\02\18@064622 by Robert L Smith

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At 09:50 PM 2/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Where can we find the Datarase?  I'm interested in an inexpensive eraser so I
>can start with JW parts.

I got mine from DigiKey       http://www.digikey.com

{Quote hidden}

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1998\02\18@065454 by Caisson

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> Van: Allan Grant <RemoveMEagrantKILLspamspamIQ-CORP.COM>
> Aan: PICLISTSTOPspamspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Onderwerp: How to use Datarase II for PIC16c74a ?
> Datum: dinsdag 17 februari 1998 0:54
>
> What is the best time to erase PIC16c74A with Datarase II (Walling Co)?

Any time beyond about 15 minutes (short distance between EPROM & UV-Lamp).
Too short will cause a Memory-effect (so I am being told) like with
NiCad's, wich
will disable your (on-board) EPROM in time.

> Can I spoil the chip if I will erase longer time then necessary?
No. You can bake it for as long as you wish.  you _could_ forget it till
next day.
It won't get more empty than empty, and it won't distroy or damage it.

> Thanks, Allan Grant spamBeGoneagrantSTOPspamspamEraseMEiq-corp.com

Greetz,
 Rudy Wieser

1998\02\18@071151 by tjaart

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Caisson wrote:

> > Van: Allan Grant <KILLspamagrantspamBeGonespamIQ-CORP.COM>
> > Aan: EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> > Onderwerp: How to use Datarase II for PIC16c74a ?
> > Datum: dinsdag 17 februari 1998 0:54
> >
> > What is the best time to erase PIC16c74A with Datarase II (Walling Co)?
>
> Any time beyond about 15 minutes (short distance between EPROM & UV-Lamp).
> Too short will cause a Memory-effect (so I am being told) like with
> NiCad's, wich
> will disable your (on-board) EPROM in time.

This sounds interesting. Who told you this?

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
@spam@tjaart@spam@spamspam_OUTwasp.co.za
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1998\02\18@134021 by Mike Keitz

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On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:16:13 +0100 Caisson <spamBeGonecaissonspamKILLspamTELEBYTE.NL> writes:
>> Van: Allan Grant <.....agrantspam_OUTspamIQ-CORP.COM>
>> Aan: TakeThisOuTPICLIST.....spamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
>> Onderwerp: How to use Datarase II for PIC16c74a ?
>> Datum: dinsdag 17 februari 1998 0:54
>>
>> What is the best time to erase PIC16c74A with Datarase II (Walling
>Co)?
[...]
>Too short will cause a Memory-effect (so I am being told) like with
>NiCad's, wich
>will disable your (on-board) EPROM in time.

Under-erased bits can appear "programmed" again (especially at low
voltage and high temperature) and cause the program to malfunction.
Experiment with your chip and your eraser to find the minimum effective
time.  Then add a generous margin (twice the time for quick prototype
tests, four times the time for chips that will be used at low voltage,
high temperature, or near customers)

A method that has worked well for me is to set the timer to somewhat more
than the minimum time, then cycle chips through the eraser so each one is
exposed to 2 erase cycles before being reused.
>
>> Can I spoil the chip if I will erase longer time then necessary?
>No. You can bake it for as long as you wish.  you _could_ forget it
>till
>next day.
>It won't get more empty than empty, and it won't distroy or damage it.

Intel used to say that a UV exposure equivalent to about 150 hours in an
eraser was the absolute maximum rating for their EPROM chips.  I don't
know what the mechanism of failure was or if newer chips are still
subject to this.

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1998\02\18@134612 by Calvin

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-----Original Message-----
From: Caisson <TakeThisOuTcaissonKILLspamspamspamTELEBYTE.NL>
To: .....PICLISTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: MiŽrcoles 18 de Febrero de 1998 5:49 AM
Subject: Re: How to use Datarase II for PIC16c74a ?


{Quote hidden}

You will only shorten the life of the erasers lamp.

GG

1998\02\18@152446 by John Payson

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> What is the best time to erase PIC16c74A with Datarase II (Walling Co)?
> Can I spoil the chip if I will erase longer time then necessary?
> Thanks, Allan Grant agrantEraseMEspamiq-corp.com

The one side-effect I've seen with excessive erasure is that the verify
current seems to be increased (perhaps the operational current as well).
If I tell my programmer to do a low-current verify it will fail on the
overly-baked parts(*) but if I use high-current it works fine.

(*) The only time I've deliberately extremely overbaked a part was to clear
   the security flag; it may be that the partially-erased security flag
   was causing the excessive current draw.

1998\02\18@232118 by Allan Hopkins

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>What is the best time to erase PIC16c74A with Datarase II (Walling Co)?
>Can I spoil the chip if I will erase longer time then necessary?
>Thanks, Allan Grant RemoveMEagrantEraseMEspamspam_OUTiq-corp.com

Allan,
It takes me about 15 to 20 minutes to fully erase the 74a that I use. I am
just about maxed out on memory also, about 4050 words.  I have never hurt a
chip by leaving it in overnight, and I have done this plenty of times by
accident !
From my own experience if I don't wait 15 to 20 minutes,  when I do a blank
check on the chip with my programmer, a message saying the chip is not blank
at "whatever" address occurs.

Allan Hopkins
@spam@AllanJHRemoveMEspamEraseMEaol.com

1998\02\19@101525 by Caisson

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> Van: Tjaart van der Walt <EraseMEtjaartspam@spam@wasp.co.za>
> Aan: @spam@PICLISTspam_OUTspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Onderwerp: Re: How to use Datarase II for PIC16c74a ?
> Datum: woensdag 18 februari 1998 13:10
>
> Caisson wrote:
>
> > Too short will cause a Memory-effect (so I am being told) like with
> > NiCad's, wich
> > will disable your (on-board) EPROM in time.
>
> This sounds interesting. Who told you this?

This piece of information came directly from the mouth of one of the guys
from MicroChip when I attended a marketing-meeting (and a sort-of
workshop) by them. He responded on a question from one of the
participants who wanted to know why some of his EPROM devices
(while developing code) in time developed more-and-more program-errors.

Greetz,
  Rudy Wieser

1998\02\19@112034 by Caisson

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> Van: Calvin <spamBeGonetgoEraseMEspamCHIH1.TELMEX.NET.MX>
> Aan: PICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Onderwerp: Re: How to use Datarase II for PIC16c74a ?
> Datum: woensdag 18 februari 1998 19:44
>
> >> Can I spoil the chip if I will erase longer time then necessary?
> >No. You can bake it for as long as you wish.  you _could_ forget it till
> >next day.
> >It won't get more empty than empty, and it won't distroy or damage it.
>
>
> You will only shorten the life of the erasers lamp.

<Grin>  I did not think about that ...

Greetz,
 Rudy Wieser

1998\02\27@023207 by Ranna M. V.

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At 09:50 PM 2/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Where can we find the Datarase?  I'm interested in an inexpensive eraser so I
>can start with JW parts.
>
You can home brew UV eraser and probably cheapest. The circuit is same as
that of florascent lamp used for house lighting and you can use the same
choke & starter.  I am using philips 9inch UV tube. I do not remember the
number, If you need it I can search it for you or you can find it in their
catalog. For timer, you can use any mechanical timer that works upto 30mins
or make your own PIC timer!  Make the case such that the processor is
around 1inch away  from the tube and can be easily placed.
Ranna M. V.
Consultant Engineer

NEURON SYSTEMS
4/77, 13th Main Road
HAL 2nd Stage
Bangalore 560 008, INDIA

Tel/Fax:+91-80-529 6071
Email: RemoveMEranna@spam@spamspamBeGoneblr.vsnl.net.in


'How to use Datarase II for PIC16c74a ?'
1998\03\04@180855 by Larry G. Nelson Sr.
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At 09:50 PM 2/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Where can we find the Datarase?  I'm interested in an inexpensive eraser so I
>can start with JW parts.
>Thanks
>Richard Skinner
>.....rwskinner@spam@spamEraseMEworldnet.att.net
>http://home.att.net/~rwskinner
I bought mine from Digikey. I bought my first one from Parallax and when I
wore out the cover safety switch I bought the one with the alarm timer for
$49.95.

Larry G. Nelson Sr.
.....L.NelsonRemoveMEspamieee.org
http://www.ultranet.com/~nr

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