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'Good board Mfr & price guesstimate'
1999\02\26@140738 by Jon Petty

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Hi

I was hoping for a little advice. I am trying to get an idea about board cost
to determine if I want to do a two layer board or a three layer with the
middle layer a ground plane.

I am looking for ball park pricing to help determine if I want to take all the
extra time and effort to cleanup a two layer board for 12bit a/d.

The board is approx 2'' x 3.5". The first price guestimate I received for 1000
board seemed astronomical. It was $5 per board 2 layer (1000 qty) and $10 for
3 or 4 layer same qty.

Does that seem right?

Can anyone recommend a good board Mfr?

1999\02\26@172114 by Eisermann, Phil

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       [snip]

> The board is approx 2'' x 3.5". The first price guestimate I received
> for 1000
> board seemed astronomical. It was $5 per board 2 layer (1000 qty) and
> $10 for
> 3 or 4 layer same qty.
>
> Does that seem right?
>
       it seems a little high to me, but there are all
       sorts of variables that can affect the cost:
       smallest trace, spacing of traces and SMD pads,
       type of soldemask, copper thickness, geometry, etc.

> Can anyone recommend a good board Mfr?
>
       on occasion, i use advanced circuits. the neat
       thing about them is they have an on-line quote
       system. you fill in the variables, and pretty
       much get an instant estimate of the cost.

       http://www.advancedcircuits.com/

       you need to register yourself first. cost is
       free, just need to provide some information
       about your company.

       the first time i used them, they built my board
       backward. but they provided new boards at no
       cost to me after they had determined it was their
       fault, and not a mistake in the drawings i provided.

       I remember a company out on a reservation in Arizona
       that i used some two years ago, but can't recall the
       name. If no one else posts about them, i'll look
       up the info on monday.

1999\02\26@183943 by John Payson

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For quick protos, I like AP Circuits (http://www.apcircuits.com); their price
is (IIRC) about US$48 + $0.68/sq.in for small orders; larger orders
(which I've never done) are about $250+$0.22/sq.in.  For smaller orders,
you get double-sided with plated through holes but no component/solder
mask.  For larger orders, the masks are an extra $60 or so per mask per
order.

For the small-order service, all boards are made in multiples of 2, and
the square-inch price is for the rectangular size of the board assuming
both dimensions are at least 1.5" [i.e. a 1"x12" board would be billed as
a 1.5"x12" board, i.e. 18 sq. inches].  If a board has more than 24 holes
per square inch, there's an extra drilling charge but it's not been all
that much.

Turnaround is fast (get the order to 'em by early morning Monday and
you can have boards by Wednesday!) and I've found the boards to be of
good quality.

1999\02\26@200535 by Rob

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Well, first off, I would *hope* that you went to surface mount, cuz if you
didnt, your fooling yourself, and I would go so far at to say that if you
didnt, you should redo the board using surface mount.
I work for a prototyping agency, and the price decrease for surface mount is
amazing..
Rob

{Original Message removed}

1999\02\26@205428 by Andy Kunz

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>extra time and effort to cleanup a two layer board for 12bit a/d.

Properlay laid out, you should be OK on two layers.

>board seemed astronomical. It was $5 per board 2 layer (1000 qty) and $10 for

$5 is high for 2 layers, unless you are getting them screened on both sides.

>3 or 4 layer same qty.

$10 is cheap for 4 layers.

Whenever possible, go with minimalist approach.  1 layer is cheapest (try
using 1 layer for the ADC area with GND plane under it).  Don't worry about
solder mask unless you have to.  Never put down a screen except for
large-run protos that you expect to screw up.

Andy

  \-----------------/
   \     /---\     /
    \    |   |    /          Andy Kunz
     \   /---\   /           Montana Design
/---------+   +---------\     http://www.montanadesign.com
| /  |----|___|----|  \ |
\/___|      *      |___\/     Go fast, turn right,
                              and keep the wet side down!

1999\02\26@235518 by kirmse

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Jon Petty wrote:

> Hi
>
> I was hoping for a little advice. I am trying to get an idea about board cost
> to determine if I want to do a two layer board or a three layer with the
> middle layer a ground plane.
>
> I am looking for ball park pricing to help determine if I want to take all the
> extra time and effort to cleanup a two layer board for 12bit a/d.
>
> The board is approx 2'' x 3.5". The first price guestimate I received for 1000
> board seemed astronomical. It was $5 per board 2 layer (1000 qty) and $10 for
> 3 or 4 layer same qty.
>
> Does that seem right?
>
> Can anyone recommend a good board Mfr?

I would expect those kind of numbers for quantities of 50 - 100 pieces.
Is there anything special about your board, small trace/space or drill
diameters?

Using Advanced Circuits http://www.advancedcircuits.com online
quote I get numbers around $2 for a 2 layer and $4 for a 4
layer board in quantities of 1000.

I have not done any business with this company although I plan to
in the near future. My understanding is that the company is about
average on pricing.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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| Portable System Design, High Speed Serial Links
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1999\02\27@014143 by Mark Willis

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Andy Kunz wrote:
> <snipped>
> Whenever possible, go with minimalist approach.  1 layer is cheapest (try
> using 1 layer for the ADC area with GND plane under it).  Don't worry about
> solder mask unless you have to.  Never put down a screen except for
> large-run protos that you expect to screw up.
>
> Andy

 I've wondered but not yet tried these super-cheap approaches for SMD
or 1-sided stuff, where you want a ground plane on the 2nd side:  Do a
1-layer board, then glue or wire tie (or whatever), old scrap PC board
you have lying around, under the board, metal side against the bottom of
the board.  You could home-etch ground planes pretty easily, if you want
only a certain area.  Not necessarily something to do for super-critical
parts, OTOH for a cheap prototype it can save $$.  Another alternative
is copper tape.

 Though if you don't connect the other PCB, or the tape, to ground,
your results might not match your expectations <G>  Do this wisely
(understand impedance implications) etc.

 Mark

1999\02\27@022008 by Gabriel Gonzalez

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Yes, this seems a little bit pricey, I recently quoted 1200 6x11" for about
that price.
The price you'll get obviously will depend on the features you want, like:
material, solder mask, silk screen, quantity of holes, hole sizes, minimum
track and spacing width, etc.

We usually quote with two or three sources to find the best value for the
money, and we have had good luck with Colt Technologies (http://www.colttech.com).

Good luck,

Gabriel Gonz‡lez
TGO Electr—nica


{Original Message removed}


'Good board Mfr & price guesstimate'
1999\03\01@110442 by Jon Petty
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In a message dated 2/26/99 10:23:28 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
.....cyborg0KILLspamspam@spam@GLOBALEYES.NET writes:

<< Well, first off, I would *hope* that you went to surface mount, cuz if you
didnt, your fooling yourself, and I would go so far at to say that if you
didnt, you should redo the board using surface mount.
I work for a prototyping agency, and the price decrease for surface mount is
amazing..
Rob >>

Your right it is surface mt.

Thanks

Jon

1999\03\01@111233 by Jon Petty

picon face
In a message dated 2/26/99 7:25:52 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
peisermaspamKILLspamRIDGID.COM writes:

<<  I remember a company out on a reservation in Arizona
        that i used some two years ago, but can't recall the
        name. If no one else posts about them, i'll look
        up the info on monday.
 >>

That would be great since I am in Tucson, AZ.

Thanks

Jon

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