Searching \ for 'Name' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=name
Search entire site for: 'Name'.

No exact or substring matches. trying for part
PICList Thread
'!*!*!*!*!*! pic list name change !*!*!*!*!*!'
1995\01\13@081244 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
I don't use too many mailing lists--am I correct in assuming that I
need to do nothing as far as the changeover goes accept when posting
an original message to the list?


Tim McDonough -- spam_OUTtimmedTakeThisOuTspamcencom.net

1995\01\13@135457 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
"unsubscribe"!!!! That's unthinkable!!!


Tim McDonough -- .....timmedKILLspamspam@spam@cencom.net


On Fri, 13 Jan 1995, jory bell wrote:

{Quote hidden}

'FW: Name'
1995\01\31@085257 by Errington A

flavicon
face
>Hi there,
>I have a question about the name of the PIC.
>What does that actually mean?
>I`ve been told something like "pipeline controller" or so.
>Does anybody know exactly?
>
>Henri

I believe 'PIC' is a name coined by Microchip as an acronym for 'Peripheral
Interface Controller'.

&y
--
Andrew M. Errington
PC Consultant
Lancaster University
.....a.erringtonKILLspamspam.....lancaster.ac.uk
Tel: +44 1524 592678
Fax: +44 1524 844011

1995\01\31@102655 by Brian_Boles_at_MCHIP__AZ

flavicon
face
    Yes, Peripheral Interface Controller is the acronym.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: FW: Name
Author:  pic microcontroller discussion list
<PICLIST%EraseMEMITVMA.BITNETspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTuga.cc.uga.edu> at internet
Date:    1/31/95 7:08 AM


>Hi there,
>I have a question about the name of the PIC.
>What does that actually mean?
>I`ve been told something like "pipeline controller" or so.
>Does anybody know exactly?
>
>Henri

I believe 'PIC' is a name coined by Microchip as an acronym for 'Peripheral
Interface Controller'.

&y
--
Andrew M. Errington
PC Consultant
Lancaster University
a.erringtonspamspam_OUTlancaster.ac.uk
Tel: +44 1524 592678
Fax: +44 1524 844011


'Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: mitvma.m'
1996\07\24@095815 by myke predko
flavicon
face
>Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
>Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:50:04 -0700
>From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <@spam@MAILER-DAEMONKILLspamspambighorn.accessnv.com>
>Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: mitvma.mit.edurrose:
host not found)
{Quote hidden}

mitvma.mit.edurrose: host not found)
>
>   ----- Original message follows -----
>Return-Path: RemoveMEmykespamTakeThisOuTpassport.ca
>Received: from passport.ca (0EraseMEspam.....diplomatic.passport.ca [204.225.103.222]) by
bighorn.accessnv.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA23438 for
<EraseMEpiclistspammitvma.mit.edu rrose>; Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:50:03 -0700
{Quote hidden}

host not found)
{Quote hidden}

Do you ever feel like an XT Clone caught in the Pentium Pro Zone?


'Name that chip! [adjacent topic]'
1998\01\25@163111 by John P. Leonard
flavicon
face
Hi all,

I need help identifying an IC in a device I'm dissecting.  The device is
a the receiver for an "invisible fence" system for pets:  a buried perimeter
wire emits a signal that is picked up by a small receiver attached to the
pet's collar.  The transmitter and receiver are both PIC-based; the receiver
detects the signal with an IC bearing the following logo and part #:

                 ___________________
                /                  /
              /      ____________/
            /______/   _________         9  5  3  3  H
                      /       /
                    /       /
                  /       /            4   0  6  9  U  B
                /_______/



This receiver would work perfectly in a project I'm working on.
Any help on who the manufacturer of the mystery IC would be appreciated.

Thanks,
John Leonard

J-TRON Eng.
Midland, MI

1998\01\25@164328 by Eric Naus

picon face
The 4069 chip is a hex inverter

Bye for now

Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: John P. Leonard <spamBeGoneleonardspamKILLspamTARDIS.SVSU.EDU>
To: .....PICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <TakeThisOuTPICLIST.....spamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 4:31 PM
Subject: Name that chip! [adjacent topic]


>Hi all,
>
>I need help identifying an IC in a device I'm dissecting.  The device is
>a the receiver for an "invisible fence" system for pets:  a buried
perimeter
>wire emits a signal that is picked up by a small receiver attached to the
>pet's collar.  The transmitter and receiver are both PIC-based; the
receiver
{Quote hidden}

1998\01\25@173324 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
4069UB=CMOS HEX inverter of series 4000, Unbuffered MAnufactured year 95
Week 33
A very lot of manufacturer make it. For data try Mototrola, Harris,
National etc
Pinning as TTL 7404, Voltage 3-15V typical
One of my favourites.
Often used in analog mode as inverting amplifier: Input voltage via
resistor to inverter input, and another between input and output. Cheap,
simple low-end.
In the named cirquit, replacing the one inverter with two serially
connected inverters instead, makes it an scmitt-trigger. Another use is to
build crystal oscillators. Or RC oscillators, or....

Regards
/Morgan


At 16:19 1998-01-25 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Morgan Olsson, MORGANS REGLERTEKNIK, Sweden, ph: +46 (0)414 70741; fax 70331
============================================================================

1998\01\25@181714 by Cees

flavicon
face
part 0 1085 bytes
----------
From:   John P. Leonard[SMTP:TakeThisOuTleonardKILLspamspamspamTARDIS.SVSU.EDU]
Sent:   Sunday, January 25, 1998 10:19 PM
To:     .....PICLISTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject:        Name that chip! [adjacent topic]

Hi all,

I need help identifying an IC in a device I'm dissecting.  The device is
a the receiver for an "invisible fence" system for pets:  a buried perimeter
wire emits a signal that is picked up by a small receiver attached to the
pet's collar.  The transmitter and receiver are both PIC-based; the receiver
detects the signal with an IC bearing the following logo and part #:

                 ___________________
                /                  /
              /      ____________/
            /______/   _________         9  5  3  3  H
                      /       /
                    /       /
                  /       /            4   0  6  9  U  B
                /_______/



This receiver would work perfectly in a project I'm working on.
Any help on who the manufacturer of the mystery IC would be appreciated.

Thanks,
John Leonard

J-TRON Eng.
Midland, MI



1998\01\25@195137 by tsk3000

picon face
Well... Since we seem to be having fun naming chips...  ;)

Does anyone know what a P85C220 is?  It has a M with a ring around it
(Motorola if I recall correctly).  It would seem to be some kind of
microcontroller.

Thanks!
--
~Keith
RemoveMEtsk3000spamspamBeGoneProdigy.Net
http://pages.prodigy.net/tsk3000/


'using DOS "COPY filename LPT1:" Was: Re: help prin'
1998\02\16@055132 by paulb
flavicon
face
Morgan Olsson wrote:

> According to my manual /b is default (except when combining files).

 Hmm.  According to my "manual", you are correct, but I have had
dificulties and the /b seems to work better when printing.

 Cheers,
       Paul B.

'[OT] Re: using DOS "COPY filename LPT1:"'
1998\02\16@062040 by wkysag

picon face
On 16 Feb 98 at 21:24, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:

> Morgan Olsson wrote:
>
> > According to my manual /b is default (except when combining files).
>
>   Hmm.  According to my "manual", you are correct, but I have had
> dificulties and the /b seems to work better when printing.

from the help file:

/B is the default for normal file copies.
...
/A is the default when appending files or when the destination
is a device like NUL or PRN, rather than a disk file.

Regards,
Wolfgang
--
Rund um's Geld:
people.frankfurt.netsurf.de/Wolfgang.Kynast/

1998\02\23@022541 by Pasi T Mustalahti

picon face
On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Wolfgang Kynast wrote:
> On 16 Feb 98 at 21:24, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:
> > Morgan Olsson wrote:
> > > According to my manual /b is default (except when combining files).
> >   Hmm.  According to my "manual", you are correct, but I have had
> > dificulties and the /b seems to work better when printing.
>
> /B is the default for normal file copies.
PTM: Never trust manuals. Test yourself. /b is not default in all
sittuations. COPY FILE.EXT works OK but COPY DEV:\DIR\FILE.EXT
DEV2:\DIR2\FILE2.EXT doesn't. I got an explanation to this directly from
M$ some years ago and didn't understand the logig even then. Try this with
for example EMM386.EXE from M$DO$ ver 5.00.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
PTM, spamBeGonepasi.mustalahti@spam@spamspam_OUTutu.fi, TakeThisOuTptmustaspamspamutu.fi, http://www.utu.fi/~ptmusta
Lab.ins. (mikrotuki) ATK-keskus/Mat.Luon.Tdk                    OH1HEK
Lab.engineer (PC support) Computer Center                       OI7234
Mail: Turun Yliopisto / Fysla, Vesilinnantie 5, 20014
Pt 02-3336669, FAX 02-3335632 (Pk 02-2387010, NMT 049-555577)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


'Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: mit'
1998\03\19@234103 by Allen Demers
flavicon
face
On 03/19/98 20:36:00 you wrote:
>
>>So what is this file supposed to be anyways?
>
>>Thanks for the reams of gibberish:
>
>You boys never heered of uuencoding?  Tain't gibberish, but it IS
>inconsiderate....  Nigel, mind the "To:" field, eh?
>
>Steve Turner
>
>
My appologies to all who were inconveinenced by this.  I should have had it
sent to my direct address. (damn us newbies!)  FYI it is uuencoded into
seven different files.  You have to cut and paste them together then decode
them as one.:)  It is a gif of the speedometer scematics with a pic16c??

Again sorry about the inconvenience!

Allen Demers


'[OT] English name'
1998\07\31@095659 by Nuno Pedrosa
flavicon
face
What do you call "{"?

Brackets are "[", right?
Thanx.
--
   .^.                                              _,^,_         /\
___( | )_____ Nuno Filipe Freitas Pedrosa __________ o(`} | , __/\/ /__
/*\\|//*\    SIEMENS S.A. Portugal                  (]|  /'    \ \/\
\(\\V//)/    Nuno.PedrosaEraseMEspamoen.siemens.de     (]|`%   (") \/\ \
 ` -=- '     Tel.  :00351-1-4242454         (")      /`/        / /\/
__B//|\\P___________________________________________\' / `/______\/____
   `-' "Try and leave this world a little better than you found it..."

1998\07\31@100926 by Stuart Allen

flavicon
face
> What do you call "{"?

A brace.

1998\07\31@104921 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>From another alien:

() = brackets

[] = square brackets

{} = curly brackets

@ = at sign, also represented by making a squiggle w. finger in thin air,
hoping that listener will guess meaning, in other languages. Do not make
this sign near your head, or the interlocutor's head.

& = and sign, represented as above in other languages. The latter 2
symbols are sometimes interchangeable <g>.

~ = tilde. also represented as a squiggle in thin air, but easier to to
differentiate, so it is not interchangeable with the prev. 2

/ = slash, div. sign. Easiliy understood in other languages.

\ = backslash. Easily not understood in other languages.  Represented by a
cutting gesture made in thin air, like a karate blow. Do not represent
this character in public when its interpretation may lead to bloodshed ;)

# = hash sign. Represented easily using a squiggle in thin air.

_ = undersore. This one requires about three *words* in latin languages,
but it is not just a squiggle drawn in thin air. This and the previous
three characters may have dangerous connotations when used in public in
the squiggle form.

^ = caret. Another squiggle-character. Sometimes causes interlocutor to
look up, and to the sides, and then try to figure out what the roof has
got to do with it anyway.

% = percent. Sometimes represented by rubbing the thumb and the index in
an expressive gesture. Well understood everywhere, no mistakes here.

$ = dollar (also, USD).  Represented by the same gesture as above, has
strong misleading connotations when presented to the uninitiated (as in:
URL:  http://www.somewhere.com/cgi-bin/item$price$usd$103556789).

` = back-tick. Often represented by a squiggle in thin air. Often removed
from unclear print-outs with Tip-Ex by University secretaries as a
printer-caused dot, before multiplication with a copier, which causes no
end to the joy of UNIX shell programming students, and others.

hoping not to bore you,

       Peter

1998\07\31@112648 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 05:21 PM 7/31/98 +0000, you wrote:
>>From another alien:
>
>() = brackets

NO!  These are parens, or parentheses.

>[] = square brackets

THESE are brackets.

>{} = curly brackets

or braces.

Note that for all the above, the left character (, [, or { is the "open"
and the right side ), ], or } is the "close."

># = hash sign. Represented easily using a squiggle in thin air.

or pound sign.

>$ = dollar (also, USD).  Represented by the same gesture as above, has

or currency.

Some more:

! = bang

* = splat

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\07\31@114330 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
The trick is that a large part of the previous email reflects long years
of observing non-english speaking people (even engineers) trading URLs w/o
electronic tools nearby (as in spell URL over radio/phone. Did you notice
early MTV at-signs represented as squiggles drawn in thin air in front of
the pretty announcer's front middle body section <g> ?) (this was a few
years ago anyway).

Peter

1998\07\31@114644 by Chuck Adams

flavicon
face
# = Octothorpe

Chuck Adams  K5FO  Dallas,TX         CP-60
http://reality.sgi.com/adams RemoveMEadamsEraseMEspamspam_OUTsgi.com

1998\07\31@115910 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
A "curly brace".

/Ake

{Quote hidden}

1998\07\31@150353 by Leon Heller

flavicon
picon face
In message <spamBeGone35C1D946.50B8EraseMEspamoen.siemens.de>, Nuno Pedrosa
<nuno.pedrosaspamBeGonespamOEN.SIEMENS.DE> writes
>What do you call "{"?

I call it a brace, or a "curly" bracket. Brace is the term used by
printers, according to my dictionary.

>
>Brackets are "[", right?

I'd call that a square bracket.

A bracket is any mark of this type used in pairs, like parentheses and
braces.

Leon
--
Leon Heller: RemoveMEleon@spam@spamspamBeGonelfheller.demon.co.uk http://www.lfheller.demon.co.uk
Amateur Radio Callsign G1HSM    Tel: +44 (0) 118 947 1424
See http://www.lfheller.demon.co.uk/dds.htm for details of a simple AD9850
DDS system. See " "/diy_dsp.htm for a simple DIY DSP ADSP-2104 system.


'[OT] English name'
1998\08\01@031134 by Steve Smith
picon face
In a message dated 31/07/98  19:09:23, you write:

<< Brace is the term used by
printers >>
I thaught that these were the dentists tourture implements !!! (BANG BANG
BANG)

Steve.....

1998\08\01@040155 by paulb

flavicon
face
Peter L. Peres wrote:

> \ = backslash.

 A common shorthand, especially so as I am given to understand amongst
UNIX people, is "slosh".

> _ = undersore.

 Just so no-one is confused, it is actually "underscore", might also be
called "underline" as this was its chief purpose on printers.  (Carriage
return *without* linefeed then print these under the previously typed
words).

> URL:  http://www.somewhere.com/cgi-bin/item$price$usd$103556789).

 Not found.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1998\08\02@191149 by Tony Nixon

flavicon
picon face
What do you call "{ 1"



A Brace and Bit :-)


Sorry, it's Monday morning.
--
Best regards

Tony

Multimedia 16F84 Beginners PIC Tools.
**New PicNPrac**

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email .....picnpoke@spam@spamEraseMEcdi.com.au


'[OT] English name'
1998\09\04@125043 by Paul BRITTON
flavicon
face
In the days of the BBC micro, the '#' hash synbol was called a 'gate' by
the BBC, and it's also called that in my company phone users guide.

1998\09\04@135352 by myke predko

flavicon
face
Paul Britton wrote:
>In the days of the BBC micro, the '#' hash synbol was called a 'gate' by
>the BBC, and it's also called that in my company phone users guide.

The correct name seems to be "octothorpe" and it's a wonderful tool to guage
people.

I have found that 100% of the people that call it an "octothorpe" are no fun
at parties and when you meet them for the first time, chances are they're
wearing a bowtie, irregardless of the weather or situation.


I hope everyone has a great (and safe) labour day!

myke

Check out the "Handbook of Microcontrollers" as a reference for embedded
microcontrollers including information on the Intel 8051, Motorola 68HC05,
Microchip PICMicro, Atmel AVR and Parallax Basic Stamp:

http://www.myke.com/#MCUHand


Hunter S. Thompson's quest for the American Dream, this week in the Book Room.

http://www.myke.com/Book_Room/book1a.htm

1998\09\04@144738 by 'Grif' w. keith griffith

flavicon
face
At 01:51 PM 9/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Paul Britton wrote:
>>In the days of the BBC micro, the '#' hash synbol was called a 'gate' by
>>the BBC, and it's also called that in my company phone users guide.
>
>The correct name seems to be "octothorpe" and it's a wonderful tool to guage
>people.
>
>I have found that 100% of the people that call it an "octothorpe" are no fun
>at parties and when you meet them for the first time, chances are they're
>wearing a bowtie, irregardless of the weather or situation.

Whew,,, And I make fun of the vocabulary of my co-workers,,, I don't think
I know anybody who even knows the word, let alone use it.  I'll be getting
some mileage out of this one!  Oh,,, in the world of Data General it was a
"crunch"
>
>
>



'Grif' N7IVS

1998\09\04@145549 by Nuno Filipe Pedrosa

flavicon
face
Never thought that "#" could have so many names!
Here, in Portugal (all of it, I think) we call it a "cardinal".
Like in #1 (cardinal/number 1) #2 (cardinal/number 2).
And, no, cardinal has nothing to do with religion. 8)
What, in english, you call a Cardinal, we call "Cardeal".

Bye.

   .^.                                              _,^,_         /\
___( | )_____ Nuno Filipe Freitas Pedrosa __________ o(`} | , __/\/ /__
/*\\|//*\    SIEMENS S.A. Portugal                  (]|  /'    \ \/\
\(\\V//)/    .....nffpRemoveMEspamdione.ist.utl.pt           (]|`%   (") \/\ \
 ` -=- '     Tel.  :00351-1-841826          (")      /`/        / /\/
__B//|\\P___________________________________________\' / `/______\/____
   `-' "Try and leave this world a little better than you found it..."


On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, 'Grif' w. keith griffith wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1998\09\04@152506 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>What, in english, you call a Cardinal, we call "Cardeal".

We call that a "rip-off" here <G>.  Usually these have adjectives like
"fantastic" "no money down" "too good to be true" <Boy, is that a warning!>

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\09\04@155847 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
MIT's jagon dictionary suggests "splat" for "#"...
Also "!" = "bang", "<>" = "brockets" (Broken Brackets), "^" = "hat", etc.
All generally intended for quick and clear verbal communication:
"my email address is ess-are-eye-bang-em-ee-atsign-openbrocket-eff-oh-oh-
closebrocket"

BillW

1998\09\04@170458 by Pete Klammer

flavicon
face
We once had a complete list of one-syllable names for every ASCII
graphic,
something like:
!=bang
@=at
#=pound
%=ummm... I don't remember that one now
^=hat
*=star
(=open (okay, that's two syllables, but it's real short)
)=close
-=dash
/=slash
\=slide
<=less
>=more
... and so forth ...

I would love to learn the names for "@" in other languages!
This summer a German from Hanover in Estonia on his way to Finland
by bicycle told me that his name for "@" is "klammeraffe".
This interested me because my name is Klammer. In German:
klammer=clamp,clip,grip,etc.
affe=ape
Hence, the "@" is a little picture of a baby monkey gripping its mother.
(Any German on the list care to confirm or debunk this?)

In Estonia (where there are now "@" road signs directing you to
so-equipped public libraries), I think they told me the the word
for "@" was "kassisaba".  In Estonian,
kass=cat
saba=tail
Hence, the "@" is a picture of a cat's tail (encircling what?).
Antti, can you amplify or dispel this?

Peter F. Klammer / .....PKlammerSTOPspamspam@spam@Racom.com
Racom Systems, Inc. / 6080 Greenwood Plaza Blvd / Englewood CO 80111
(303)773-7411 / FAX:(303)771-4708


> {Original Message removed}

1998\09\04@171909 by 'Grif' w. keith griffith

flavicon
face
Bill,,, Oh, and is this 'sir chopsalot'?  It just seems I lurk on several
lists your name shows up on.  Maby even Stay Green?

anyway
if # is a splat,,, what's a *?
One of the books I've seen was something like hook, bang, crunch and splat
for a title.  No memory past that.

At 12:58 PM 9/4/98 PDT, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'Grif' N7IVS

1998\09\05@021829 by netquake

flavicon
face
----------
>
> Paul Britton wrote:
> >In the days of the BBC micro, the '#' hash synbol was called a 'gate' by
> >the BBC, and it's also called that in my company phone users guide.
>
> The correct name seems to be "octothorpe" and it's a wonderful tool to
guage
> people.
>
> I have found that 100% of the people that call it an "octothorpe" are no
fun
> at parties and when you meet them for the first time, chances are they're
> wearing a bowtie, irregardless of the weather or situation.

I call it Tic Tac Joe!

P.D: Anyone knows how to recognize a screwed-up 16F84 from a
good one without a programmer or expensive gear?

1998\09\05@052720 by Stig Brautaset

flavicon
face
In Norway, by some people, the @ sign is called a "snabel-a". Snabel means a
trunk (as an elephant's nose).

Also, it is called a "kr¿ll-alfa" (that first word contais a norwegian
letter that may not appear amongst the majoroty of you, it is an "o" with a
slash across it.) It means "curl". "Alfa" I'm sure needs no explanation.



>I would love to learn the names for "@" in other languages!
>
>Peter F. Klammer / PKlammerEraseMEspam@spam@Racom.com
>Racom Systems, Inc. / 6080 Greenwood Plaza Blvd / Englewood CO 80111
>(303)773-7411 / FAX:(303)771-4708
>
>

1998\09\05@052729 by Stig Brautaset

flavicon
face
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Grif' w. keith griffith <RemoveMEkgriffitspamspamBeGoneWOLFENET.COM>
To: spamBeGonePICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <PICLISTspam_OUTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: 4. september 1998 23:16
Subject: Re: [OT] English name


>Bill,,, Oh, and is this 'sir chopsalot'?  It just seems I lurk on several
>lists your name shows up on.  Maby even Stay Green?
>
>anyway
>if # is a splat,,, what's a *?




The * (multplicator sign) is called an asterix here in Norway.

Stig

===============================
Stig Brautaset
spamBeGonesbrautas@spam@spamc2i.net
http://home.c2i.net/sbrautas
===============================
Drive carefully; 90% of the people in the world are caused by accidents.

1998\09\05@055644 by Stig Brautaset

flavicon
face
>
>
>The * (multplicator sign) is called an asterix here in Norway.
>

Actually, when i think about it, I belive it is "asterisk". Not sure, but
something down that road. Can anyone confirm this?


>Stig
>
>===============================
>Stig Brautaset
>RemoveMEsbrautasEraseMEspamKILLspamc2i.net
>http://home.c2i.net/sbrautas
>===============================
>Drive carefully; 90% of the people in the world are caused by accidents.
>

1998\09\05@095344 by Russell McMahon

picon face
If you are, unlike myke ;-), into octothorpes and their ilk then you
could subscribe to "A Word A Day". Each day you get a free new shiny
word such as octothorpe to keep you amused or bemused.

To subscribe:

http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/

Wish to share your love of words with a family member or a friend?
You can
send a gift subscription of AWAD at
http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/gift.html .
Before you sign-up anyone, please make sure s/he will appreciate your
gesture.




{Original Message removed}

1998\09\05@124926 by Ansel Sermersheim

flavicon
face
>>>>> "Stig" == Stig Brautaset <spamBeGonesbrautasspam_OUTspamRemoveMEC2I.NET> writes:

>>
>>
>> The * (multplicator sign) is called an asterix here in Norway.
>>

> Actually, when i think about it, I belive it is "asterisk". Not
> sure, but something down that road. Can anyone confirm this?

That's what I call it.

Other fun definitions:

# Octothorpe
= Quadrathorpe
- Bithorpe


Had to get out TNHD for these; it's been a while:

% mod; grapes; double-oh-seven.
\ Backslash; reverse slash; slosh; backslant; backwhack.

--
I used to be convinced that MicroSquish shipped crap because they simply
didn't give a flying fuck as long as the sheep kept buying their shit.
Now, I'm convinced that they really do ship the best products they are
capable of writing, and *that's* tragic.
  - John C. Randolph, about MS quality control.

1998\09\05@153135 by Quentin

flavicon
face
Stig Brautaset wrote:

>
> Actually, when i think about it, I belive it is "asterisk". Not sure, but
> something down that road. Can anyone confirm this?
>
> >Stig

It is asterisk. Astrix is that little guy the carries big stones and smash
up Romans.

Quentin

1998\09\05@154213 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Ansel Sermersheim wrote:

> # Octothorpe
> = Quadrathorpe
> - Bithorpe

Just out of curiosity, what connotations does the 'thorpe' root have, that
it got to have such immortalizing uses ?

Peter

1998\09\05@175817 by Ansel Sermersheim

flavicon
face
>>>>> "Peter" == Peter L Peres <.....plpspamRemoveMEACTCOM.CO.IL> writes:

> On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Ansel Sermersheim wrote:
>> # Octothorpe
>> = Quadrathorpe
>> - Bithorpe

> Just out of curiosity, what connotations does the 'thorpe' root
> have, that it got to have such immortalizing uses ?

I'd never thought about it before, but after this message, I decided
to look for more info.

http://www.nynews.com/topics/bpa60503.htm
explained quite a bit.

Quoted from the site:

"A fine word and yet obscure.

The Alta Vista search engine claims an index of 11 billion words on 22
million Web pages. But a search for octothorp found it on only 24 of
all those pages, and some of the cites were duplicated sites.

In addition to your pound and Michael's hash, the Web provided other
octothorp alternatives, including: number, grid, hatch, crosshatch,
tictactoe, mesh, thud, thump and pigpen.

I also encountered possible derivation for the word octothorp,
attributed to one Charles Bigelow. The "octo" part is easy. As for the
hard part, and without detailing the etymological detours, the old
English thorp can be traced back to the old Latin "trabs," meaning
beam.

Take a look at the pigpen above the No. 3 on your keyboard. It has
eight points, or eight projecting beams, or eight thorps."

Given all that, it's the work of but a moment to generalise to the
proper other terms, though I realise now that = and - should be
bithorpe and unithorpe, respectively.

-Ansel
--
I used to be convinced that MicroSquish shipped crap because they simply
didn't give a flying fuck as long as the sheep kept buying their shit.
Now, I'm convinced that they really do ship the best products they are
capable of writing, and *that's* tragic.
  - John C. Randolph, about MS quality control.

1998\09\06@031541 by Russell McMahon

picon face
Asterix is (was?) a Gaul.



-----Original Message-----
From: Stig Brautaset <sbrautasspam@spam@C2I.NET>
To: EraseMEPICLISTRemoveMEspamSTOPspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Saturday, September 05, 1998 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] English name


>>
>>
>>The * (multplicator sign) is called an asterix here in Norway.
>>
>
>Actually, when i think about it, I belive it is "asterisk". Not
sure, but
{Quote hidden}

accidents.
>>
>

1998\09\06@174106 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
>MIT's jagon dictionary suggests "splat" for "#"...
>Also "!" = "bang", "<>" = "brockets" (Broken Brackets), "^" = "hat", etc.
>All generally intended for quick and clear verbal communication:
>"my email address is ess-are-eye-bang-em-ee-atsign-openbrocket-eff-oh-oh-
>closebrocket"

The prof that I work with on some DSP stuff agrees with you on all of the
above EXCEPT that splat = "*".  In his words, "think of a bug on a
windshield".  I didn't think to ask him what "#" was called.

dwayne




Dwayne Reid   <RemoveMEdwaynerspam_OUTspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(403) 489-3199 voice     (403) 487-6397 fax

1998\09\07@043214 by Frank A. Vorstenbosch

flavicon
face
Quentin wrote:
>
> > Actually, when i think about it, I belive it is "asterisk". Not sure, but
> > something down that road. Can anyone confirm this?
>
> It is asterisk. Astrix is that little guy the carries big stones and smash
> up Romans.

Err, it's Obelix who carries big stones about.  He's the big fellow, and
Asterix is his clever friend.

Frank
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank A. Vorstenbosch     <SPAM_ACCEPT="NONE">    Phone: 0181 - 636 3000
Electronics and Software Engineer                 Mobile: 0976 - 430 569
Eidos Technologies Ltd., Wimbledon, London        Email: favspamspameidos.co.uk

1998\09\07@051408 by org Hager

flavicon
face
On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Pete Klammer wrote:

> This summer a German from Hanover in Estonia on his way to Finland
> by bicycle told me that his name for "@" is "klammeraffe".
> This interested me because my name is Klammer. In German:
>  klammer=clamp,clip,grip,etc.
>  affe=ape
> Hence, the "@" is a little picture of a baby monkey gripping its mother.
> (Any German on the list care to confirm or debunk this?)

Yes, that's correct, although many people also call it `at' now even in
Germany.

Georg.

1998\09\07@051824 by Dr. Imre Bartfai

flavicon
face
Only for fun,

the official name of '#' in Hungary means: Andrew's Cross

Imre


'PIC name'
1998\11\05@112753 by aya Baptista
flavicon
face
In my PIC16F84 is written "PIC16F84-04/P".
Does "04" mean that its maximum clock speed is 4MHz? In the datasheet says
that it is 10MHz (no version specified).
So, is it 4 or 10MHz? Or 4MHz is only the maximum in XT mode while 10MHz is
the maximum in HS mode?

AndrŽ Malafaya Baptista

1998\11\05@113443 by Dave Johnson

flavicon
face
>In my PIC16F84 is written "PIC16F84-04/P".
That's the 4 MHz part, it is "qualified" at only 4 MHz. You have to
specifically order the 10 MHz part (PIC16F84-10/P). However, people say
that often the 4 MHz part will work at 10, so give it a try!

Dave

1998\11\05@114107 by aya Baptista

flavicon
face
>>In my PIC16F84 is written "PIC16F84-04/P".
>That's the 4 MHz part, it is "qualified" at only 4 MHz.

In order to put it to work at 4MHz should I select HS or XT?
What about if I try the 10MHz rate? HS or XT?

1998\11\05@125834 by Dave Johnson

flavicon
face
>In order to put it to work at 4MHz should I select HS or XT?
>What about if I try the 10MHz rate? HS or XT?
I'm a little out of my depth here (I just slapped a 10MHz ceramic
resonator on mine) but if I'm reading the data sheet correctly, it's like
this:

Ceramic Resonator:

4 MHz - XT
10 MHz - HS

Crystal:

4 MHz - XT or HS (is this right?)
10 MHz - HS

Maybe someone who REALLY knows will chime in here :-)

Dave Johnson

1998\11\20@072521 by Dave Johnson

flavicon
face
>In order to put it to work at 4MHz should I select HS or XT?
>What about if I try the 10MHz rate? HS or XT?
I'm a little out of my depth here (I just slapped a 10MHz ceramic
resonator on mine) but if I'm reading the data sheet correctly, it's like
this:

Ceramic Resonator:

4 MHz - XT
10 MHz - HS

Crystal:

4 MHz - XT or HS (is this right?)
10 MHz - HS

Maybe someone who REALLY knows will chime in here :-)

Dave Johnson

1998\11\20@075545 by aya Baptista

flavicon
face
>>In my PIC16F84 is written "PIC16F84-04/P".
>That's the 4 MHz part, it is "qualified" at only 4 MHz.

In order to put it to work at 4MHz should I select HS or XT?
What about if I try the 10MHz rate? HS or XT?

1998\11\20@075551 by Dave Johnson

flavicon
face
>In my PIC16F84 is written "PIC16F84-04/P".
That's the 4 MHz part, it is "qualified" at only 4 MHz. You have to
specifically order the 10 MHz part (PIC16F84-10/P). However, people say
that often the 4 MHz part will work at 10, so give it a try!

Dave

1998\11\20@075601 by aya Baptista

flavicon
face
In my PIC16F84 is written "PIC16F84-04/P".
Does "04" mean that its maximum clock speed is 4MHz? In the datasheet says
that it is 10MHz (no version specified).
So, is it 4 or 10MHz? Or 4MHz is only the maximum in XT mode while 10MHz is
the maximum in HS mode?

AndrŽ Malafaya Baptista


'iname accounts, forwards, etc.'
1999\03\01@101141 by Nick Taylor
picon face
What about those of us who have legitimate iname.com accounts?
- - - Nick - - -

jory bell wrote:
<snip>
> subscriptions will be deleted. i am going to remove the existing
> iname accounts sometime tomorrow. thanks for your understanding.
>
> ::jory

'Names with no topic'
1999\03\24@085010 by Stan Ockers

flavicon
face
                           Subject:                        Time:    7:40
AM
                           Names with no topic
3/24/99
                                                            Date:
I'm finding that just reading this list is taking too long.  I have
started automatically deleting topics with a certain headings.  The problem is
that when I open the list in the morning there are a number of messages at
the bottom with names but no topics listed.

I can see what the topic is when I open the message, but this morning
every one was on a topic that I would have skipped over.  Can someone explain
to me why the topics don't appear in the original list?  Do I have to
open the messages to determine the topic?

Stan

'Names with no topic [OT]'
1999\03\25@183401 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Stan Ockers wrote:
> <snipped>
> I can see what the topic is when I open the message, but this morning
> every one was on a topic that I would have skipped over.  Can someone explain
> to me why the topics don't appear in the original list?  Do I have to
> open the messages to determine the topic?
>
> Stan

 Someone forgot to put a subject (topic, whatever <G>) line on their
post.  Considered "Evil" by many List members, but some people still
space it and post without a subjet line.  Another thing to note is that
replies (under most e-mail clients) won't insert "Re: " in front of a
blank subject line, so these proliferate, though they don't "grow on
ya"!

 Mark


'MPLAB long filename support'
1999\06\10@230738 by Ken Pergola
flavicon
face
One of the most frustrating parts of MPLAB is the fact that it truncates
Win95/Win98 long filenames.
Does anyone know if there is an option in MPLAB to accept long filenames?
I would imagine this is caused from MPLAB being created in a compiler that
creates 16-bit apps?

Anyone have commnets on this? It's sad to be limited to 8-character project
names -- it's very limiting.
But maybe I'm wrong, so please correct me if I am.

Thanks,

Ken Pergola

1999\06\11@023035 by Ernie Murphy

flavicon
face
You are right, it is terrible, and I don't think Microchip is interested in
fixing it, else this version would have been compiled with the 32 bit API
turned on. Such is life.



At 11:06 PM 6/10/99 -0400, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\06\11@094259 by Chris Eddy

flavicon
face
Ernie;

I suspect that there are a large number of folks that still use win 3.1/11,
especially overseas where they are not apt to leap on the next version of
Windows when the former version doesn't work either.  If I were Microchip, I
would support as many of these folks as possible, at the expense of listening to
some whining over 8 characters.  I happen to have the latest MPLAB on my 486
laptop with win 3.1 so that I can take my emulator along with me.

Chris Eddy

Ernie Murphy wrote:

> You are right, it is terrible, and I don't think Microchip is interested in
> fixing it, else this version would have been compiled with the 32 bit API
> turned on. Such is life.
>
> At 11:06 PM 6/10/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >One of the most frustrating parts of MPLAB is the fact that it truncates
> >Win95/Win98 long filenames.

1999\06\11@095513 by Harrison Cooper

flavicon
face
Microchip is not the only one that does this.  Xilinx also has yet to
implement long file names, and although its a hassle, think of it this way.
If you, like allot of us, have multiple development environments, and do not
always have the same OS (for example, I run NT on this box, but WIN95 on my
laptop, and WIN3.1 on another dev system), the OS that does not support long
file names truncates them, and if you have several files with the suffix
being the discriminator, then you run the chance of losing files, or
duplicating.  Sure, its a pain, but what I think is more important is being
able to support long path names over long file names.  I tend to name
directory structures with rather descriptive names, and if it can support 32
bit files structures, I can deal with the name problems.

1999\06\11@125618 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Fri, 11 Jun 1999, Chris Eddy wrote:

> I suspect that there are a large number of folks that still use win 3.1/11,
> especially overseas where they are not apt to leap on the next version of
> Windows when the former version doesn't work either.  If I were Microchip, I
> would support as many of these folks as possible, at the expense of listening
to
> some whining over 8 characters.  I happen to have the latest MPLAB on my 486
> laptop with win 3.1 so that I can take my emulator along with me.

And speaking of whining - or actually wineing - as long as Microchip
continues the win 3.1 compatibility then it's possible to run mplab under
Linux. I tried it to see if it was possible and it is. (I did not attempt
to program a chip with picstart+ though).

Which leads to the Spoonerism of the day: If there's a problem with Linux,
you can be root. If there's a problem with windows, you can re-boot. :)

Scott

1999\06\11@142312 by Aaron and Hifumi

picon face
Sadly, I haven't been able to get mplab to program using my picstart+ yet using
wine.
I don't know if I have the config set wrong for wine or what. Anybody else had l
uck
with it? Is there a linux program for using the picstart+? I haven't found one y
et.

On a related note, I tried out vmware today (http://www.vmware.com I think), installed
windows 95 on it, installed mplab on that, and was able to program my chips thru
it.
It's actually a fairly quick running emulator (vmware that is), and works nicely
on
my linux box. I'm a happy camper. Now if only i could come up with the $75 for t
he
vmware full version, I'd be set. 8-)

Aaron

Scott Dattalo wrote:

> And speaking of whining - or actually wineing - as long as Microchip
> continues the win 3.1 compatibility then it's possible to run mplab under
> Linux. I tried it to see if it was possible and it is. (I did not attempt
> to program a chip with picstart+ though).


'Help Wanted: PIC Based Christmas Tree Ornament'
1999\12\22@131612 by Thomas McGahee
flavicon
face
HELP ME!!!!!!!!

I am planning to build a set of PIC based Christmas tree ornaments, and I
wanted
to ask the other PIC list members to help me out with suggestions.

My goal is to create a sort of distributed network of PIC based Christmas
tree
ornaments that can inter-communicate with one another. I am not sure
whether I should go for standard serial communications at 512 kilobaud, or
opt
for something more elegant, like Ethernet or TCP/IP. Hard wiring the
communication links would be one way of doing it, but I am wondering if
using an RF communication scheme might not be a better way to go. I think
that if each ornament had its own private transmission frequency, that would
be nice. This of course implies that the receiver used by each ornament
would have to be capable of scanning all the allocated frequencies. Maybe
some kind of a modified broad band spectrum sweeping IC can be used. But
they have to be really cheap because I plan on having over a thousand
ornaments
on the tree. Any one have the URL of a source of really  cheap RF modules?
Do you know if they give out free samples? Maybe 1,000 free samples???

I plan on using 16C84 s as the processor, since I already have about five of
these in my junkbox. I think they still work. I connected a couple of them
backwards in one of my prototypes, and accidentally connected 220 VAC to
them. They lit up like light bulbs. But I only let them glow for a few
seconds before removing the power, so I think they should still be OK. I
should have let them cool down before I touched them, because I really
burned a couple of my fingers quite badly. MicroChip should really put a
warning on their chips.

For some reason my  brand-new WARP13 programmer seems unable to program
my 16C84 s.  This is an exact copy of the original Tait programmer, except
for the extensive modifications required because I couldn t find any of
the originally specified parts. For example, I was unable to locate a source
for
1N914 diodes, so I had to substitute that with the only diode I could find,
which happened to be the 20 KV high voltage diode that I removed from a
dead monochrome monitor. I didn t have the money to buy the commercial
PC board for the WARP13 programmer,  so I just used a hot glue gun to hold
all the pieces upside down on a metal cookie sheet, and tack soldered all
the
wiring directly onto the parts. To save money I got my wire from an old
de-gaussing coil that I removed from my neighbor s color TV set. The
wire turned out to be aluminum and I had a little trouble soldering it, so
after soldering I applied large quantities of hot glue so the wires would
not keep falling off. I couldn t find a decently priced zero insertion force
socket, so I
just used a regular socket. I found that if you repeatedly insert the leads
from a 5 watt resistor into the IC socket, it pushes the connectors further
apart so it becomes more like a zero insertion force socket. My modified
socket has such a low insertion force that if you turn it upside down the
PIC
will just fall out all by itself.

I am beginning to think that maybe the problem is not with the programmer
itself, but with the software. I got the software from Don s Download
Dungeon. It was written for a totally different programmer, but I don t
think that should make much difference since the WARP13 is advertised
as being a Universal PIC Programmer. That means that it will work with
anything, right?

The software is for a serial port driver, but it should work much faster on
my
unit since I have it hooked up to the parallel port instead. I was very
careful
and took all the unused parallel port lines and tied them to ground. The
software must be defective, because every time I plug my programmer into
my computer, the computer freezes up and I have to reboot. Well, I TRY to
reboot, but sometimes it won t even do THAT! Lousey old Windoze 95!
Bill Gates should be shot! I am going to borrow a copy of LINUX from
one of my friends and see if the problem goes away.

To achieve the high communications speeds that I desire I will be doing just
a little bit of over-clocking. I have 4 Mhz versions of the PICs, but a
friend
gave me a defective computer motherboard and I was able to remove the
Clock chip. It is marked FOX 100.0000 M 05/06/97. From the markings I
take it that it generates both a 5 and a 6  Mhz signal. Since I only have
one
of these oscillators, I plan on distributing the clock signal from this one
oscillator to all 1,000 PIC based ornaments. It should be able to handle the
load with ease, since it is a TTL oscillator and the PIC inputs are CMOS
and draw absolutely no current. Since I am using an external clock
oscillator, I will just tie the OSC1 and OSC2 leads of each PIC together and
daisy chain all the OSC1 inputs to the crystal oscillator.

Each PIC ornament will have to control 57 LEDs. I want each of these LEDs
to be super-bright, but it is imperative that the total power consumption of
each ornament be only 1 milliamp. Maybe I will have to run the PIC in
sleep mode all the time.. Has anyone on the PIC list already done this?
Can you send me complete code for it? But I want all calculations to be done
in octal so I can conserve bytes. As everyone knows, octal uses fewer bytes
than hexadecimal.

I do not want to program in assembly language, because I hear that if you
program in assembly language that means that you are not smart enough to use
a high level language. Several years ago I did a little bit of programming
in COBOL, and I have a friend who knows a little FORTRAN. Does anyone on
this list know of a really good COBOL or FORTRAN compiler for the PIC 16C84?
It would be best, of course, if the compiler were free and comes with a
complete set of already written routines to handle anything that I want to
do. But it has to handle Binary or Octal, not Hexadecimal. Hexadecimal
confuses me when it uses those numbers that aren t really numbers but are
actually letters. And all those stupid X s stuck in between the numbers just
totally confuse me.

The reason I want to have all the PIC ornaments networked together is so
that every ornamanet will know what all the other ornaments are doing. I don
t want to have a situation where all the ornaments are all flashing their
red LEDs at the same time, or a time when none of the LEDs are on at all. I
was thinking that maybe
if I programmed each ornamant with a Random Number Generator then that would
help a lot. But you still might have a case where two adjacent ornaments
were flashing the same color at once. I don t want that. I want every
ornament to be flashing several colors at once, but no more than one LED of
any given color at a time. Further, no two adjacent ornamaments should have
ANY of the same colors on at the same time. I plan on having each ornament
send out a list of colors that they want to turn on.  While each of the
ornaments is making its list, there should be a Master PIC Ornament
Controller that takes all the lists and checks them twice just to make sure
that everything is nice. Or do you think that it would be better not to have
a Central Controller, but just let every adjacent ornament communicate just
with its neighbors? I have begun writing some code to implement this
function. I call the system  Completely Hidden Address Ordering System , or
just CHAOS for short.

I have not yet been able to come up with a workable scheme for letting each
ornament determine exactly who its neighbors are. I thought of giving each
ornament its own unique ID code, but then again, I want all the PICs to be
programmed EXACTLY alike. What if each PIC requested a unique ID at startup
and then if none of the other PICs requested that ID code, then they would
be granted it? If two or more PICs requested the same code, then that code
would be removed from the pool of available codes. Each PIC would then
increment to the next desired ID code and try again. This procedure would
continue until every PIC had a unique code. If not all the PICs managed to
get a unique ID code, then a master reset would be issued and the procedure
would begin again from scratch for all the PICs. This procedure would be
very  fair , since at any given moment all the PICs would be vying for
exactly the same ID code.

To conserve memory useage I still need to find some way to code all 1,000
possible ID codes into a single 8 bit byte. I know we can t just code them
in directly, because directly a single 8 bit byte can only code 256 uniques
states (if you count zero as being unique). I figure that if we code 1 as
128 and 2 as 129 and 3 as 130, etc, then we should be able to get at least
512 things coded using just 8 bits. Then if THAT set of codes is coded again
using the exact same technique, that would give us 2*512 which is the 1024
codes we need!!! Has anyone else out there done this already? If so, would
you please send me the code, so I don t have to re-invent the wheel? I
prefer code that is in COBOL, but as I said earlier, I have a friend who
knows FORTRAN, so that is also OK.

Power for each PIC ornament will be distributed by a pair of wires that runs
directly to the 220 VAC outlet. I do not like transformers, since they
radiate ghastly electromagnetic waves that have been shown to produce cancer
in lab rats. To keep costs down I plan on using an absolute minimum of
parts. No extra pieces whose sole function is to improve performance or
prevent injury or death. To this end the power supply section will consist
entirely of a single .1 microfarad capacitor rated at 100 volts. Some of you
will wonder how I will rectify the voltage without using any external
diodes. I will rely on the fact that PICs themselves are inherently
polarized devices. They draw more current in one direction than in the
other. So, presented with AC, they tend to self-rectify it. Since rectified
AC is half the value of DC, the capacitor s voltage rating only has to be
100 volts! I chose the value of .1 microfarad because I already have a lot
of that value capacitor in my junk box.

Now, I don t want to pressure anybody, but I need to have this thing totally
designed by Christmas, so I would really really appreciate it if you would
drop everything else you are doing and quickly respond to this post.

I don t always check my own mailbox that often, so instead of responding in
a private post, please send all responses to the PIC list. Oh yes, and just
so that I don t have to go back and dig up a copy of my original post, I
would appreciate it if you would attach this post in its entirety into your
response.

One last question.

How do I unsubscribble from this pukelist anyhow?

Merry Christmas! (Oops, sorry... that last remark was Off Topic...)
Fr. Tom McGahee

1999\12\22@132448 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
Tom - you forgot one thing.  In your request to post the whole thing to the
list, you forgot to say that you wanted the reply at the BOTTOM of the
letter.  Because I know this is what you really wanted, I put my REAL reply
at the bottom.

<G>

At 01:21 PM 12/22/1999 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I recommend 10Base-T because you can use the unused lines to carry the
120VAC power around the tree easily.

You need to get a T-shirt for unsubscribe instructions.

Andy

PS - on the ornament thing.. You might just want to hook up the PICs
directly to the power.  These kinds of chips are high-impedance inputs, so
they should be OK for acting directly as the light bulbs.  You can reduce
the chip count that way.  No AC/DC converter, no LEDs. Just a PIC and 120VAC.



==================================================================
New Microprocessor support forum mail list - details on our site
------------------------------------------------------------------
spam_OUTandyspam_OUTspamspam_OUTrc-hydros.com      http://www.rc-hydros.com     - Race Boats
andyspam_OUTspammontanadesign.com  http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics
==================================================================

1999\12\22@133104 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
Hi Fr. Tom,

Absolutely ROTFL!!

I think you should look into nuclear power. Perhaps a PIC might become
conscious in the presence of reverse voltage and a high neutrino flux, and
then it would be able to give an interpretive light dance to whatever music
you played ;-)

Sean


At 01:21 PM 12/22/99 -0500, you wrote:
>HELP ME!!!!!!!!

|
| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
| Electrical Engineering Student
\--------------=----------------
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
RemoveMEshb7KILLspamspam@spam@cornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

1999\12\22@134524 by jamesnewton

picon face
That was really, really funny and I enjoyed it a lot.... and since its the
holiday season I'm not even going to say anything about its not being marked
off topic <SLY GRIN>....

I just hope
the people who have no sense of humor get it and
the people who have little time don't mind and
the newbies aren't offended
etc...

I'd love to see a lot more posts like that...with [JOKE][OT] in the subject
line.

James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
jamesnewtonspamBeGonespam.....piclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

1999\12\22@140206 by Lorand Enterprises LLC

flavicon
face
<x-flowed>Wow!  Someone's got waaaay too much time on their hands!

But will it be Y2K-Compliant?

Don't forget that for RF you'll need FCC certification, so why not try the
MacDonald Interface, sometimes referred to as the EIE-I/O?  It'll keep the
little ones entertained while it transfers data amongst the ornaments.

Andrew

</x-flowed>

1999\12\22@142325 by Thomas McGahee

flavicon
face
-----Original Message-----
From: Lorand Enterprises LLC <KILLspamLorandspam.....QWESTINTERNET.NET>
To: spam_OUTPICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTRemoveMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: Help Wanted: PIC Based Christmas Tree Ornament


>Wow!  Someone's got waaaay too much time on their hands!

I'm an electronics educator at a high school.
School is out!!! At least until the beginning of January.
So, yes, I have an inordinate amount of time on my hands...

>
>But will it be Y2K-Compliant?

What a stupid question!
Of COURSE it will be Y2K compliant. This product is being brought
to you by the same company that engineered the original
Y2K compliant Toaster.

>
>Don't forget that for RF you'll need FCC certification,

Only if the FCC knows where you live. Besides, we here at Fly-By-Night
Enterprises pride ouselves on the fact that we only sell our
products outside the continental United States, where the FCC has
no power. We operate with global impunity.

> so why not try the
>MacDonald Interface, sometimes referred to as the EIE-I/O?  It'll keep the
>little ones entertained while it transfers data amongst the ornaments.

True, but is the EIE-I/O as "stable" as they claim? I hear that you have to
provide a fair amount of mu metal shielding. And you know what they say:
Here a mu, there a mu, everywhere a mu-mu... It just all adds up to extra
and unnecessay expense. But thanks for your input anyhow. I will file
your e-mail into my deleted folder. Click!

>
>Andrew
>

Fr. Tom

1999\12\22@144226 by Darren Logan

picon face
Haaa ha ahaa ha haaa ha ahhhha haha  haaaa Haaa ha ahaa ha haaa ha ahhhha
haha  haaaa Haaa ha ahaa ha haaa ha ahhhha haha  haaaa Haaa ha ahaa ha haaa
ha ahhhha haha  haaaa Haaa ha ahaa ha haaa ha ahhhha haha  haaaa Haaa ha ahaa
ha haaa ha ahhhha haha  haaaa Haaa ha ahaa ha haaa ha ahhhha haha  haaaa Haaa
ha ahaa ha haaa ha ahhhha haha  haaaa Haaa ha ahaa ha haaa ha ahhhha haha
haaaa Haaa ha ahaa ha haaa ha ahhhha haha  haaaa Haaa ha ahaa ha haaa ha
ahhhha haha  haaaa Haaa ha ahaa ha haaa ha ahhhha haha  haaaa. (hut hum).
Nicely !

Regards,
Darren

1999\12\22@153955 by Thomas McGahee

flavicon
face
Darren,
You should be totally ashamed of yourself for posting such frivolity to
the PIC list. If all of us did this it would be terrible waste of
bandwidth.

May I suggest that in the future you use a proper subject heading,
such as Re:   Re:   Re:   Re:[OT][Ha Ha][JOKE]

Also, what is the meaning of your post? I ran it through several
language translators and all I got back was gibberish.

Fr. Tom



{Original Message removed}

'Ornaments are Off Topic??? [JOKE] [OT]'
1999\12\22@163310 by jamesnewton

picon face
I got the following post direct from Thomas.... I thought that everyone
would enjoy it. <GRIN>

It would be allot funnier if I hadn't received a few emails that are so
close to it but from people who are entirely serious. (You know who you are
<VBG>)

Thomas, you have a talent for knowing what the slightly lower forms of
humanity will say <VOICE="CHURCH LADY"> and what does that say about you???
HUMMM???</VOICE> and then making fun of it just enough to keep the reader
going. Frustrated writer perhaps?

I'm, uh... unfamiliar with the title: L.S.M.F.T. What, exactly, does that
bestow upon its owner?

James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
KILLspamjamesnewtonspamspamBeGonepiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

'Help Wanted: PIC Based Christmas Tree Ornament'
1999\12\22@163612 by paulb

flavicon
face
part 0 12697 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii (decoded 7bit)

James Newton wrote:

> That was really, really funny and I enjoyed it a lot.... and since its the
> holiday season I'm not even going to say anything about its not being marked
> off topic <SLY GRIN>....
>
> I just hope
> the people who have no sense of humor get it and
> the people who have little time don't mind and
> the newbies aren't offended
> etc...
>
> I'd love to see a lot more posts like that...with [JOKE][OT] in the subject
> line.
>
> James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
> jamesnewtonspamspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
> PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com
>
> {Original Message removed}

1999\12\22@164713 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
It's already been done.  Go to Home Despot, and ask for the "Uber-Geek
Christmas Tree Ornament Light Deluxe".  They use TCP/IP on 100BaseT cat5
cable.  Since the 100baseT signal can be treated as AC, they ride it on
top of the lower frequency 120/240 VAC in the cable.

They overclocked the PIC, and hook the cat5 right up to it.  The zeners
in the pic automagically clip and rectify the AC down to a useable level
for power, and the ethernet component of the signal is capacitively
coupled by the plastic dip package to an adjacent pin.  This pin is
configured as an analog input so we don't need to amplify the signal.
They, of course, are using the inexpensive 12Cxxx series, which leaves 5
wires for the LEDs.  But these aren't ordinary LEDs!

Each LED is 12c driven, and has four elements in it.  Red, green and 2
blue.  The chip in each LED which hooks up to the i2c dims them at 256
levels each, using PWM.  The neat thing is that they are
autoregulating!  We all know that an LED can be pulsed very briefly at
high currents, but a longer pulse at a high current will blow the sucker
up.  So they give the LED higher currents when they send it brief PWM,
and lower currents when they send it long PWM.  Brilliant!

The extra pins are left for debugging pruposes.  The entire package is
sold with fully commented code, and includes the schematic and pcboard
layouts.

But HD might be out...  In fact, they have been sold so fast here most
of the employees hadn't even heard of them.

-Adam

Thomas McGahee wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'[OT][JOKE][L.S.M.F.T.][Ornaments]'
1999\12\22@170533 by Thomas McGahee

flavicon
face
Remarks intersperesed below within text...

-----Original Message-----
From: James Michael Newton <RemoveMEjamesmichaelnewtonspamBeGonespamRemoveMEyahoo.com>
To: Thomas McGahee <KILLspamtom_mcgaheespamBeGonespamsigmais.com>; Pic Microcontroller Discussion
List <@spam@PICLISTSTOPspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 3:45 PM
Subject: RE: Ornaments are Off Topic??? [JOKE] [OT]


>I got the following post direct from Thomas.... I thought that everyone
>would enjoy it. <GRIN>

That's it. Make me look like a total fool in front of the entire PIC list!
Take an e-mail that was sent to you privately and in deep confidence,
meant only to be seen by you, and expose it to the whole world
for ridicule. Now you have REALLY gone to far!

>
>It would be allot funnier if I hadn't received a few emails that are so
>close to it but from people who are entirely serious. (You know who you are
><VBG>)

What!? Someone has been writing to you about me? Complaining perhaps?
I demand to know their names! Tell me who their ISPs are. I have a couple
of really nasty e-mails to compose...

>
>Thomas, you have a talent for knowing what the slightly lower forms of
>humanity will say <VOICE="CHURCH LADY"> and what does that say about you???
>HUMMM???</VOICE> and then making fun of it just enough to keep the reader
>going. Frustrated writer perhaps?

Lower forms of humanity? Why, I have never been so grossly insulted in my
entire life! (Well, there was that one time when... but that is old
history. Here you are making deep, fresh wounds and then rubbing the salt
in.)

And what do you have against Church Ladies? And why do you keep making
sly remarks and enclosing them in angle brackets? Are you trying to get
me mad or something? Is it some kind of secret code known just between
you and your cronies?

I'll have you know that NO ONE has ever accused me of being a writer before.
That is a new insult that I will not soon forget. I will write down in my
Daily Log so that I don't accidentally forget...

>
>I'm, uh... unfamiliar with the title: L.S.M.F.T. What, exactly, does that
>bestow upon its owner?

Sheesh! Here, I'll carefully spell out the meanings of all the abbreviations
after my name:

B.A. = Bachelor of Arts. A single person who likes to go the the movies a
lot.

M.Div. = Master of Divinity. A person who has become expert at eating
        a particular kind of confectionary candy.

PhD. = Doctor of Philosophy. Not a "real" doctor, though capable of
determining
      what type of thermometer goes where. (If Doctors of Philosophy
      are so smart, how come they have the D part after the Ph part?)
      It should really be DP, but since that might accidentally be
      pronounced as DIP by some poor unknowing slob, they keep it PhD.
      (Some of my best friends are PhD's. I apologize, but sometimes
      the truth hurts).

B.V.D. = A brand of underwear. Not to be confused with Hanes or
        Fruit of the Loom. You didn't ask about this one. Did you
        get it, or had you surmised it to be something else, James?

L.S.M.F.T. = Lucky Strike Means Fine Tobacco. A cutesy advertising slogan
            used in the mid-sixties to try to entice young people to
            fill their lungs with nicotine and tar and other tobacco
            derivatives. I use this after my name merely to confuse and
            befuddle people. Only really intelligent people ever ask me
            what B.V.D. and L.S.M.F.T. mean. The stuffed shirts are always
            too afraid to admit ignorance of ANYTHING, so they just
            nod their heads and suck on their pipes, as internally I am
            laughing my guts out. No offense meant to any pipe smokers
            out there.

End of remarks.

The Most Reverend Thomas M. McGahee
B.A. M.Div. PhD. B.V.D. L.S.M.F.T.

Well, OK, I admit it, I am really only
Fr. Tom McGahee
B.A. M.Div.

I lied about the PhD. B.V.D. and L.S.M.F.T. parts.
But only because I wanted you to accept me as someone of vastly
superior intelligence. It won't happen again (soon).

'Help Wanted: PIC Based Christmas Tree Ornament'
1999\12\22@175142 by John Mullan

flavicon
face
I'm not sure but I hear tell that if you let a little of the blue smoke
escape, that they go on strike!

:)
John Mullan

{Original Message removed}

'Help Wanted: PIC Based Christmas Tree Ornament [OT'
1999\12\22@175555 by quozl

flavicon
face
Oh, that was so funny it hearly had me hyperventilating.
Satire is quite a compliment.  Or is that complement?

--
James Cameron   quozlspamBeGonespamspamBeGoneus.netrek.org   http://quozl.us.netrek.org/

1999\12\22@180312 by John Mullan

flavicon
face
Can we rename this thread "Twas the PIC before Christmas......"

Actually, I heard that if you get one of those old artificial aluminum
christmas trees and connect the one side of an AC outlet (black wire) to the
tree and connect Vdd of each PIC to one of the aluminum pine needles, you'll
save on wire and make use of the inherent resistance of the tree to maybe
keep your current consumption around the desired 1ma.

Only authorized service personnel should attempt this and it is critical to
make good solid connections.

John


{Original Message removed}

'[OT][JOKE][L.S.M.F.T.][Ornaments]'
1999\12\22@195407 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
On this same thread, my turn;  Obligatory spelling/syntax check {purely
for teasing purposes, of course!}, in progress here.

Thomas McGahee wrote:
>
> Remarks intersperesed below within text...
>
> {Original Message removed}

'[OT][JOKE][L.S.M.F.T.][Ornaments][ADMIN]'
1999\12\22@210656 by Nick Taylor

picon face
Is there not a PIClist rule concerning the oversampling of the
sacramental wine?

Thomas McGahee wrote:
>
> Remarks intersperesed below within text...
>
> {Original Message removed}

'Help Wanted: PIC Based Christmas Tree Ornament'
1999\12\23@020208 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>Also, what is the meaning of your post? I ran it through several
>language translators and all I got back was gibberish.


That's amazing - a universal message that means the same thing in all
languages!

RM

1999\12\23@020827 by Dr. Imre Bartfai

flavicon
face
Hi,

I must disagree due to intended languages as COBOL or FORTRAN. They are
absolutely inappropriate for that project. I would suggest INTERCAL, as a
superior language for that choice. As illustration, I insert here a small
random number generator taken from the Intercal distribution package.

       DO (1900) NEXT
       DO READ OUT .1
       PLEASE GIVE UP
(1900)  DO STASH .2 + .3
       DO .3 <- #65535
       DO (1903) NEXT
(1903)  PLEASE FORGET #1
       DO .2 <- #0
       PLEASE %50 IGNORE .2
       DO .2 <- #1
       PLEASE REMEMBER .2
       DO .1 <- !1$.2'~"#65535$#1"
       DO .3 <- .3~#65534
       DO (1902) NEXT
       DO (1903) NEXT
(1902)  DO (1904) NEXT
       DO RETRIEVE .2 + .3
       DO FORGET #1
       PLEASE RESUME #1
(1904)  PLEASE RESUME '?"!3~.3'~#1"$#1'~#3

As one can see, it gives the most clearest structure and such way due to
the very short project deadline this is the once tool you can use.

And a remark: there is no Intercal compiler for PIC, though. But it is
absolutely no problem, as Intercal produces C output and the compilation
can be done by the (almost) free compiler of HiTech or whatever you
choose.

Regards and merry Xmas:

Imre

'[OT][JOKE][L.S.M.F.T.][Ornaments]'
1999\12\23@111833 by Thomas McGahee

flavicon
face
Comments interspersed below
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Willis <spamBeGonemwillisspamFOXINTERNET.NET>
To: spam_OUTPICLISTSTOPspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [OT][JOKE][L.S.M.F.T.][Ornaments]


>On this same thread, my turn;  Obligatory spelling/syntax check {purely
>for teasing purposes, of course!}, in progress here.
>
>Thomas McGahee wrote:
>>
>> Remarks intersperesed below within text...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James Michael Newton <TakeThisOuTjamesmichaelnewtonspamspamRemoveMEyahoo.com>
>> To: Thomas McGahee <KILLspamtom_mcgaheespamspamspam_OUTsigmais.com>; Pic Microcontroller
Discussion
>> List <PICLISTRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>> Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 3:45 PM
>> Subject: RE: Ornaments are Off Topic??? [JOKE] [OT]
>>
>> >I got the following post direct from Thomas.... I thought that everyone
>> >would enjoy it. <GRIN>
>>
>> That's it. Make me look like a total fool in front of the entire PIC
list!
>> Take an e-mail that was sent to you privately and in deep confidence,
>> meant only to be seen by you, and expose it to the whole world
>> for ridicule. Now you have REALLY gone to far!
>
>That's "too far", not "to far".  "to far" would imply something entirely
>different than "too far".  'WARNING PICL91872341: English Syntax error
>on line 0018, continuing harassment' <G>

Picky, picky, picky! But then again, little minds have nothing else to do
than find fault with others. *I* of course, am above such drivel. You
will never find me stooping so low as to be commenting on someone's
spelling and grammar errors.

>
>> >It would be allot funnier if I hadn't received a few emails that are so
>> >close to it but from people who are entirely serious. (You know who you
are
>> ><VBG>)

I notice that you didn't mention the blatant spelling error <allot> in
the sentence above. I take it you are in cahoots with the
Administrators????

>>
>> What!? Someone has been writing to you about me? Complaining perhaps?
>> I demand to know their names! Tell me who their ISPs are. I have a couple
>> of really nasty e-mails to compose...
>
>Oh, c'mon, look up their ISP's based on their e-mail addresses, sheesh,
>you want us to have ALL the fun?  <G>  You can find their upstreams too,
>see my anti-spam posts <G>

I never bother to keep copies of your posts. If I ever want information
on anything I don't have to look it up. All I have to do is send a
post to the entire PIC list telling folks what I want, and some
well-meaning person who has more free-time than I do will do all
the leg work for me.

>
>I'm definitely one of the people harassing James;  Though, until now, I
>hadn't been talking about you behind your back.  You're now an open
>topic for discussion, though <VBG>

See, I KNEW it! A full-blown conspiracy!!!

>
>> >Thomas, you have a talent for knowing what the slightly lower forms of
>> >humanity will say <VOICE="CHURCH LADY"> and what does that say about
you???
>> >HUMMM???</VOICE> and then making fun of it just enough to keep the
reader
>> >going. Frustrated writer perhaps?
>>
>> Lower forms of humanity? Why, I have never been so grossly insulted in my
>> entire life! (Well, there was that one time when... but that is old
>> history. Here you are making deep, fresh wounds and then rubbing the salt
>> in.)
>
>He IS an Admin;  Jory & I are "breaking him down"  Oops, IN, that's
>"breaking him IN".  Darn typos!  <G>  Must be working...

Working? Gee, I thought that you Administration guys were just fellows
that had nothing better to do with your time, so you sit around all
day playing God at your computer terminals.

{Quote hidden}

Who is the guy that sends you money? I want to add him to my personal
list of people to be spammed by my next mass mailing. I have a program
that goes through all the PIC list mail and extracts e-mail addresses,
but I want to put *that* guy's address at the top of my list!
Eventually I hope to be able to sell the list to other mass
merchandizers.

>
>> I'll have you know that NO ONE has ever accused me of being a writer
before.
>> That is a new insult that I will not soon forget. I will write down in my
>> Daily Log so that I don't accidentally forget...
>
>Jory, I think James is getting there <G>

Oh, so this is all part of James' Admin training, eh?
I'm making a note of that in my Daily Log. This adds
even more fuel to my conspiracy theory...

>
>> >I'm, uh... unfamiliar with the title: L.S.M.F.T. What, exactly, does
that
>> >bestow upon its owner?
>>
>> Sheesh! Here, I'll carefully spell out the meanings of all the
abbreviations
{Quote hidden}

always
{Quote hidden}

Are you the same guy that's been beaming stuff into my head?
I know that you and others are constantly trying to monitor my
thoughts, but I have found a way to defeat you! I now wear
a large stainless steel soup bowl on my heads at all times, and
I make sure that it is always properly grounded!!

>
>Hey, happy Christmas/New Years/Holidays/whatever, all <G>
>
>  Mark
>
>--
>I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
>(For private individuals at cost; ask.)
>

Note the crass commercialism of this guy. He blatantly uses the
PIC list to advertise his "services". I wouldn't mind if he was
providing an absolutely free service, but something in my
gut tells me that he is accepting monetary remuneration for
his services. I think the PIC list should charge him and
others like him a hefty advertising fee.

By the way, if anyone is still interested in buying any
EL Inverters for powering LCD backlights, just contact
me off-list. $5 to $6 each depending on quantity.

Fr. Tom McGahee

'Help Wanted: PIC Based Christmas Tree Ornament'
1999\12\23@111840 by Thomas McGahee

flavicon
face
John,
If you want to see the kind of stuff I dream up for aluminum
Christmas trees, read the story I have copied for you below.

I am not sending this to the whole PIC list because it is
WAY Off Topic, and I don't want to be booted off the PIC list
for posting too much frivolity.

Fr. Tom McGahee

{Original Message removed}

'[OT][JOKE][L.S.M.F.T.][Ornaments]'
1999\12\23@113942 by jamesnewton

picon face
"heads"? I think I understand now... this guy is actually Zaphod Beeblebrox
posting under a "nome de plume" <GRIN>

James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
EraseMEjamesnewtonSTOPspamspamRemoveMEpiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

'Help Wanted: PIC Based Christmas Tree Ornament'
1999\12\23@133609 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
Hi Imre,

I like how polite this language is :-) There are imperative languages,
functional languages, object-oriented languages, but I think this is the
first "ask-politely" language that I have seen!

Sean

At 08:07 AM 12/23/99 +0100, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
| Electrical Engineering Student
\--------------=----------------
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
spam_OUTshb7RemoveMEspamEraseMEcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

1999\12\23@134008 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
It's just a cover so if the program doesn't give up, remember, forget,
or retrieve something you asked it to, the creators can say that, even
though you asked nicely, it didn't want to and therefore won't.

;-)

-Adam

Sean Breheny wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'[OT][JOKE][L.S.M.F.T.][Ornaments][ADMIN]'
1999\12\23@134420 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
Um, yeah, but it's actually sacrificial wine, not sacramental.  One must
sacrifice a wine before posting to the list...

-Adam

Nick Taylor wrote:
>
> Is there not a PIClist rule concerning the oversampling of the
> sacramental wine?
>

1999\12\23@134833 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
Hopefully you make sure it is *well* grounded when you are handling live
powerlines...

(actually, you should NEVER ground soup bowls worn on your head, what
happens is those who beam info to you will UNGROUND your home/business,
all water pipes and powerlines, and even your cable and telco lines.
Then they will transmit through 'ground' and have a direct line into
your head...  Be wary...)

-Adam

Thomas McGahee wrote:
> I now wear
> a large stainless steel soup bowl on my heads at all times, and
> I make sure that it is always properly grounded!!

1999\12\23@135833 by Alice Campbell

flavicon
face
Date sent:              Thu, 23 Dec 1999 13:46:44 -0500
Send reply to:          pic microcontroller discussion list <EraseMEPICLISTRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From:                   "M. Adam Davis" <spamadavis.....spamspamUBASICS.COM>
Subject:                Re: [OT][JOKE][L.S.M.F.T.][Ornaments]
To:                     PICLISTspam_OUTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

see  http://host.berk.com/~lessemf/personal.html

for latest in shielding gear....

happy y2k
alice
doesnt need additional ground---im a geologist

{Quote hidden}

'Help Wanted: PIC Based Christmas Tree Ornament'
1999\12\23@143433 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
>HELP ME!!!!!!!!
>
>I am planning to build a set of PIC based Christmas tree ornaments, and I
>wanted
>to ask the other PIC list members to help me out with suggestions.

<very large SNIP>

I've just spent the last couple of weeks getting our new office network up
and running - its been a fairly frustrating process.

That post by Mr McGahee was the FUNNIEST thing I've read all week!

ROTFL!

dwayne


Dwayne Reid   <.....dwaynerspamspam.....planet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 15 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 1999)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
email.

'[OT][JOKE][L.S.M.F.T.][Ornaments]'
1999\12\23@160036 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Thomas McGahee wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Good.  Leaves me with no competition, just the way I like it! <G>

> >> >It would be allot funnier if I hadn't received a few emails that are so
> >> >close to it but from people who are entirely serious. (You know who you
> are
> >> ><VBG>)
>
> I notice that you didn't mention the blatant spelling error <allot> in
> the sentence above. I take it you are in cahoots with the
> Administrators????

Uhm, are the admins in cahoots with themselves!?  He's been assimilated,
sure <G>  We'll upgrade his firmware, the intersentence space DLL modole
had a bug in rev. 373B4322G54A, due to an ex-microsoft developer's being
assimilated.  Tooks days to fix the bad code resulting from that <G>

{Quote hidden}

Good strategy, hope you get fast responses to your "help demands"!  (Not
saying that I hope you get what you want, that's up to the posters <G>)

> >I'm definitely one of the people harassing James;  Though, until now, I
> >hadn't been talking about you behind your back.  You're now an open
> >topic for discussion, though <VBG>
>
> See, I KNEW it! A full-blown conspiracy!!!

"Nuuuuuthingk!  Nuuuuuthingk!  I know Nuuuuuuthingk!"  <G>

{Quote hidden}

We resemble that <G>  I was referring to James' conditioning, not MY
work habits, which resemble being a slave to the cats here, too much of
the time.

{Quote hidden}

That would be telling.  Here's a good contributor that I will share;
these guys always send ME money when I send them UCE asking for money;
Strange e-mail username, takes all kinds though!  Send to
<spamBeGonejunkformKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTatg.wa.gov>, tell them I sent you <VBG>

{Quote hidden}

Want some stove pellets for that?  They burn pretty well and cleanly,
just producing a little ash;  I have some to spare, since the stove
here's not always working <G>  A nice auger run off a PIC would feed
these pretty well;  You could use a stepper motor to run the auger, and
I'm sure you can find someone to tell you how to connect the stepper to
a PIC <G>  Stick a capacitance meter in there as well, to sense when
you're close, for safety - Turn the auger off so you don't get fed to
your own conspiracy theory as fuel.  That'd be bad <G>

{Quote hidden}

You need to watch it, we have learned how to get it to resonate (by
using a transient), and then read the re-radiated EMF from that.  Hope
no-one tells you that attaching 2 large horns to the bowl will dissipate
the EMF, making it impossible for us to read your thoughts;  Oops.  Oh,
well <G>

(Wondering how you wear one bowl on your "heads", but I'll just note
that and move on past, and then back away carefully <G>)

{Quote hidden}

I'll talk to myself about this proposal <G>  (Hmmm, if I collect from
myself and then bribe myself to not collect from myself, naah, that
wouldn't work.  <G>)

Hey, have to buy all this cat food for the beasties that own me;  And
have to buy a Cat-approved Christmas tree, so they can posess, er,
infest, er, inhabit it.  You know how strong a tree it takes, for an
18-pound cat to climb?  Not a little weakling tree.  Tough getting that
through the door here!  Come-alongs are a GREAT tool, I've learned.

It takes a lot of sending 5.0688 MHz crystals overseas for free, to pay
for all this furry partnership - now hold it, why'm I doing THAT, that's
a net loss!?  <G>

> By the way, if anyone is still interested in buying any
> EL Inverters for powering LCD backlights, just contact
> me off-list. $5 to $6 each depending on quantity.

Oh, FOIGHN, the pot calling the kettle black, is it?  Yeesh!

At least he's saying to do these dark transactions off-list, not on the
list <G>

> Fr. Tom McGahee

 Mark "Teasing is a 3-edged sword"

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

'[GTOGJ] Re: [OT][JOKE][L.S.M.F.T.][Ornaments]'
1999\12\23@160705 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>Working? Gee, I thought that you Administration guys were just fellows
>that had nothing better to do with your time, so you sit around all
>day playing God at your computer terminals.


What do you mean by bringing God into this?
Don't you know that you will upset all the atheists on the list.
Is this a (not so) subtle attempt to swing the topic of this thread
completely???
And you mentioned CHURCH LADIES (or was it LADYS).
I know this was brought up by someone else but you should know better than
to pick up on forbidden OT subjects and reply to them - if everyone did
that, before you knew it the whole list would be full of drivel and wasting
everyone's bandwidth.

Next think you'll be talking about the fact that Christmas is tomorrow (if
you live in the right part of the world) or the day after tomorrow if you
live in strange parts of the world like New Jersey.

Before you know it people will be wishing each other blessed Christmas's,
expressing desires for peace and cooperation and even suggesting that it
would be nice if people would think about the implications of loving each
other.

Next think the thread will be shot to hell (should that be shot to heaven?)
and people will start talking about peace on earth and good will to man and
maybe even thinking about where it was said first and what else they were
talking about and then God knows what could happen!!!

This thread started off talking about Christmas tress and flashing lights
and RF communications and networking and COBOL.
What's that got to do with God??? !!!! (especially COBOL).

Surely you should have been more sensitive and said XMAS tree lights.
Don't you know that Christmas has the word Christ in it ???? !
Don't you realise how dangerous it can be using that name. Don't you realise
that you are probably violating people's civil liberties and almost
certainly their rights under the 1st 3rd and 8th amendments - you have to
watch out not to offend all these Americans with bare arms - they're a
dangerous lot.

If you are going to mention Christ and 2000 years and millenniums and what
are we celebrating after all (and I'm sure you are not coz of all the above)
then you should put it in the title so people know to avoid the topic and
can avoid it if they want to.
You also need to know that this won't do any good coz the atheists read
right through anyway and get offended about the bit at the bottom and the
waste of bandwidth. So DONT DO IT - stick to the topic like everyone else
has done who has posted on this thread. !!!!

Leave the "Good tidings of great joy" and "Jesus is the reason for the
season" stuff to the religious fanatics.
After all YOU don't want to be mistaken for one of those, do you
?????????????

'[OT][JOKE][L.S.M.F.T.][Ornaments]'
1999\12\23@165044 by paulb

flavicon
face
Alice Campbell wrote:

> see  http://host.berk.com/~lessemf/personal.html
> for latest in shielding gear....

 Absolutely ROTFLMAO.

 That's the most beautiful rip-off I've ever seen.  Why am *I* not in
that business instead of working to make money?
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\12\23@174137 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
"Paul B. Webster VK2BZC" wrote:
>
> Alice Campbell wrote:
>
> > see  http://host.berk.com/~lessemf/personal.html
> > for latest in shielding gear....
>
>   Absolutely ROTFLMAO.
>
>   That's the most beautiful rip-off I've ever seen.  Why am *I* not in
> that business instead of working to make money?
> --
>   Cheers,
>         Paul B.

ROTFLMAO
I did about ten translations of that.
You you want a dealer starter kit Paul?
;-)

Don McKenzie    EraseMEdon.....spamKILLspamdontronics.com      http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html

1999\12\23@180037 by Reginald Neale

flavicon
face
<x-flowed>> > Alice Campbell wrote:
> >
> > > see  http://host.berk.com/~lessemf/personal.html
> > > for latest in shielding gear....

  I'm a little confused... do you think it would be all
  right if I connect the ground cord of my Loksana mat to
  the ground wire in my electric blanket's power cord?

  Reg Neale

</x-flowed>

'Help Wanted: PIC Based Christmas Tree Ornament'
1999\12\23@185520 by Keelan Lightfoot

flavicon
face
----------
>From: Thomas McGahee <spamtom_mcgaheespamSIGMAIS.COM>

<snip>
>them. They lit up like light bulbs. But I only let them glow for a few
>seconds before removing the power, so I think they should still be OK. I
>should have let them cool down before I touched them, because I really
>burned a couple of my fingers quite badly. MicroChip should really put a
>warning on their chips.
<snip>

Hmm.. This sounds like a friendly attack my my recollection of doing just
this with one of my PICs :)

Merry Christmas to all, and I wish the best to you all for the new years :)

- Keelan Lightfoot

1999\12\24@033824 by Russell McMahon

picon face
I've given this lots of thought.
I haven't reposted any of the prior posts here as I'm sure you all remember
everything that was said.
I notice that everyone seems to have missed the technical content out of
their replies so here is a serious  reply (so there).

- Remotes are all 16C550 as this is lowest cost.
Not as flash (groan) as 16F84 but cheaper.

- Each remote drives 8 LEDs.
Max drive current per LED allowed is nominally 20mA but a little more is
achievable.
system runs off 3 volts with NO series LED resistors to keep cost and size
down.
OR
use transistor driver array eg ULN2803 (or discrete transistors - see
below).
Driving 8 LEDs with 1 watt available gives 100 mAish each - some LEDS - sub
strings all on at once can be driven if desired.


- RC internal clock used giving low cost and size.

- Wiring is a single pair of 2mm wiring *true-rip, zip cord whatever).

- Power is fed as 20 KHz sine wave.

- Remotes each use a single E10 ferrite core and 20 KHz resonant circuit.

-Loop core over one leg of zipcord and close magnetic circuit with an
I-core.
You can get over 1 watt per remote at around 5A loop current. .
Very adequate for this application.

- All control is centralised (coz its easier).
All remotes have various flash algorithms internal - parameter driven.
Each remote is code to provide an ID. Voltages are set with resistors on 2
pins and read using a sigma delta converter (saves pins and is low cost and
16550 hasn't got an A2D otherwise.

Signalling is by turning the 20KHz on and off appropriately.
Cheap. Easily decoded. Cheap.
Did I say cheap?

Working out who is next to who is up to you.
You clip these on the wires where-ever you want them.
You unclp them and move them if you don't like the result.
Note that the wire is not broken or connected to physically - its all done
by inductive coupling.

When you build these please let me know how many of each so I can advise my
client who has a NZ patent plus an international patent application for the
basic principle :-).I'm sure his licence fees will be reasonable.

I intend to do something like this on my front path :-) but of course
"haven't got to it yet".

Hope you all have a blessed Christmas and that the foundation of it shows
through at least a little for you in this rush/hype/commercialisation driven
world

regards,


     Russell McMahon
_____________________________

Jesus is (still) the reason for the season (and the millennium celebrations,
and ...)

>From other worlds - http://www.easttimor.com
                               http://www.sudan.com

What can one man* do?
Help the hungry at no cost to yourself!
at  http://www.thehungersite.com/

(* - or woman, child or internet enabled intelligent entity :-))

1999\12\24@063323 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
Hej Russell McMahon. Tack fšr ditt meddelande 05:10 991224  enligt nedan:

Very very nice solution :)

But what about EMI?

5A 20kHz on a wire running around like a large coil on a Xmas tree...

Maybe if we use twisted wire pair instead, so return current is close.

Then, also, we only need to push a I core in between the vires.
That also prevent the ornament from sliding along the wire.
And our Ornament have the ends of an "[" -formed core sticking out to close the magnetic field when attached to the inserted I -rod.  (The secondary winding is of course always on the [ -core, cast together with LEDs, PIC etc in a nice form.

Using a resionant cirquit is nice for reducing overtones from rectifying.

And for recieving we use some kind of detection of I/U phase angle between secondary and resonator.  I think.
Then we do not need to switch off, just use phase shift keying...:)
And maybe could the slaves send by switching around some cap in the resonator to achieve pretty strong phase shift in reply to some adressing command?



But I just hate when Xmas lamps etc blink!!
I like much better soft still light.

Beacuse Xmas is a time for rest and nice moments :)


But the technology might be used for other things, of course.

Regards
/Morgan

---8<---

- snip-

>- Power is fed as 20 KHz sine wave.

-snip-

>You can get over 1 watt per remote at around 5A loop current. .
>You clip these on the wires where-ever you want them.
>You unclp them and move them if you don't like the result.
>Note that the wire is not broken or connected to physically - its all done
>by inductive coupling.

1999\12\24@102909 by Thomas McGahee

flavicon
face
I get all my best material by simply reading the actual
posts on this list. Truth is always stranger than
fiction!

Fr. Tom McGahee

{Original Message removed}


'[OT] what is a googolplex ? and who named it'
2000\03\14@012041 by Pete Simmons
flavicon
face
>>Can one of the PIC wizards tell me what a googaplex is ?
>>
>Some years ago a book was written in which the author (a mathematician)
>said that his
>grandson gave the name "googol" to the largest number, so he arbitrarily
>gave its
>value as 10^100 (1 followed by 100 zeroes).  Subsequently needing a larger
>number,
>he defined the googolplex as 10^googol (1 followed by a googol of zeroes).
>I should
>know the author of the book, but am having an amnesia attack at the moment.
>
>Bob McClure
>

In case some PICsters are losing sleep over this, was American
mathematician Edward Kasner's 9yo nephew (according to Carl Sagan -
'Cosmos' p219).

Back to lurking now...

2000\03\14@060121 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>>>Can one of the PIC wizards tell me what a googaplex is ?
>>>
>>Some years ago a book was written in which the author (a mathematician)
>>said that his
>>grandson gave the name "googol" to the largest number, so he arbitrarily
>>gave its
>>value as 10^100 (1 followed by 100 zeroes).  Subsequently needing a larger
>>number,
>>he defined the googolplex as 10^googol (1 followed by a googol of zeroes).
>>I should
>>know the author of the book, but am having an amnesia attack at the
moment.
{Quote hidden}

Yes - but can you trust anything Carl told you :-) ?

RM

2000\03\14@114202 by Robert M. McClure

flavicon
face
At 11:11 PM 3/14/00 +1300, Russell McMahon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

First, let me apologize for relying on my memory.  I should have looked
up a citation.  The best information seems to be the following:

GOOGOL and GOOGOLPLEX are both dated 1938.
Both terms were coined by Milton Sirotta, nephew of American
mathematician Edward Kasner (1878-1955), according to Mathematics
and the Imagination (1940) by Kasner and James R. Newman:

"Words of wisdom are spoken by children at least as often
as by scientists.  The name 'googol' was invented by a child (Dr.
Kasner's nine-year-old nephew) who was asked to think up a name for
a very big number, namely, 1 with a hundred zeros after it.  He was
very certain that this number was not infinite, and therefore equally
certain that it had to have a name.  At the same time that he
suggested 'googol' he gave a name for a still larger number:
'Googolplex.'  A googolplex is much larger than a googol, but is
still finite, as the inventor of the name was quick to point
out."

This quotation was taken from the article "New Names for Old" found
in The World of Mathematics (1956) by Newman.  The article is
identified as an excerpt from Mathematics and the Imagination.

The story is also told in Mathematics for the Millions by Lancelot Hogben.



.....
Suffice it to say that both words are now firmly esconced in the English
vocabulary.

Bob McClure


'[OT] PIC names..wasTRANSPUTERS'
2000\04\30@184825 by l.allen
picon face
> I've been expecting someone to translate those ideas into the PIC
> world as "PICowulf". But then, from what others have said recently,
> Mchp would probably hop up and put the ole clampers on use of PIC in
> the name. Wonder if they would object to "16C62owulf"?
>
Maybe a simple substitution like "Expensive But Useful"
so you could use EBU instead of PIC.

I love all these TLA's (Three letter acronyms)!
_____________________________

Lance Allen
Technical Officer
Uni of Auckland
Psych Dept
New Zealand

http://www.psych.auckland.ac.nz

_____________________________

2000\04\30@192623 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
Lance Allen wrote:
>> I've been expecting someone to translate those ideas into the PIC
>> world as "PICowulf". But then, from what others have said recently,
>> Mchp would probably hop up and put the ole clampers on use of PIC in
>> the name. Wonder if they would object to "16C62owulf"?
>>
>Maybe a simple substitution like "Expensive But Useful"
>so you could use EBU instead of PIC.
>
>I love all these TLA's (Three letter acronyms)!
.....

Sorry, Lance, EBUowulf just doesn't cut it.


'[OT] PIC names..wasTRANSPUTERS'
2000\05\01@084510 by Alan B Pearce
face picon face
>I love all these TLA's (Three letter acronyms)!

Then you do not work in the space industry where the same TLA can mean different
things to different people on the same project!

>From one who has been through this loop, and had to explain what he was talking
about to another member of the project.

'[OT] STRIP-X (enamel wire)'
2000\05\15@121013 by Chris Eddy

flavicon
face
Gentlemen;

I called a wire manufacturer a while back, and they indicated that true enamel
coated wire was a rare product.  They have a number of types of coating that you
can get on your wire, some of which can be stripped clean by the heat of an iron
and solder.  Could save you the grief of stripping entirely.

Chirs Eddy

Joe McCauley wrote:

> Wagner,
>
> I too have similar problems stripping fine wire (0.032 to 0.055 mm diameter)
> I normally use a hot soldering iron and tin the wire. This works eventually,

'[EE][OT] STRIP-X (enamel wire)'
2000\05\16@044518 by Joe McCauley

picon face
As I indicated a soldering iron is how I am doing this at the moment but
with wire as fine as 0.032mm
you can very easily damage the wire. If you are making contacts on a
precisely wound and balanced 5K turn
balanced coil system you cannot afford to loose any wire from the end of the
winding never mind at the start
of the winding. A chemical stripper is the best way to go here IMHO.

Joe

{Original Message removed}

'[OT] STRIP-X (enamel wire)'
2000\05\18@192750 by dporter

flavicon
face
In 1968, I owned a VW bug and it seemed a little dull.  A bunch of us
decided to paint it to be more in tune with the "age of Aquarius."
Unfortunately, the bug has an inordinately large surface area and we had
inordinately small talent.  Several years later, the paint had to come off.
I went to a supplier for auto body shops and purchased several gallons of
a jelly-like substance.  You brushed it on, waited a few minutes and off
came the blistered paint.  Even in 1972, it was labeled as carcinogenic.
It was a nasty witch's brew, but it would even remove lacquer and varnish,
to say nothing of the body putty that was underneath.

If you need just a little, try a body shop.  They'll probably give you a
few CC's.

David Porter
dporterSTOPspamspamvoicenet.com

----------
> From: Chris Eddy <ceddySTOPspamspamKILLspamNB.NET>
> To: @spam@PICLIST.....spamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [OT] STRIP-X (enamel wire)
> Date: Monday, May 15, 2000 8:09 AM
>
> Gentlemen;
>
> I called a wire manufacturer a while back, and they indicated that true
enamel
> coated wire was a rare product.  They have a number of types of coating
that you
> can get on your wire, some of which can be stripped clean by the heat of
an iron
> and solder.  Could save you the grief of stripping entirely.
>
> Chirs Eddy
>
> Joe McCauley wrote:
>
> > Wagner,
> >
> > I too have similar problems stripping fine wire (0.032 to 0.055 mm
diameter)
> > I normally use a hot soldering iron and tin the wire. This works
eventually,

'[Fwd: Yet another worm. Varient names & code this '
2000\05\19@134521 by Robert Rolf

picon face
The News media have reported this new worm as 'Herbie'. It has the
potential to do as much damage as Lovebug since it will use the
entire address book for outgoing spore.

It also changes the name of the attachment, and subject AND permutes
it's code as it propagates. They're calling it 'smarter than the
Lovebug'.

Now if only users could be made smarter and NOT open .VBS attachments.
(or ANY unexpected attachment).

If you have no need for Windows scripting (few do), then go to
start/settings/control panel/add-remove programs/windows setup/
accessories/ and uncheck 'Windows scripting host' and  click OK, OK, OK
to remove it. This generally disables scripting (VBS) and gives
basic protection against this kind of worm.
The better protection is to NOT use LOOKOUT! (Outlook), but rather any
competitor mail client (Netscape Messenger, Eudora, etc.) which does not
support scripting or activeX controls.

====================
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/vbs.loveletter.fw.a.html

VBS.NewLove.A

                    Last updated 5/19/00 6:00am PDT

                    SARC, in conjunction with other anti-virus vendors,
has renamed
                    this worm from VBS.LoveLetter.FW.A to
VBS.NewLove.A.

                    The VBS.NewLove.A is a worm, and spreads by sending
itself to
                    all addresses in the Outlook address book when it
is activated.
                    The attachment name is randomly chosen, but will
always have a
                    .Vbs extension. The subject header will begin with
"FW: " and will
                    include the name of the randomly chosen attachment
(excluding
                    the .VBS extension) Upon each infection, the worm
introduces up
                    to 10 new lines of randomly generated comments in
order to
                    prevent detection.

                    Also known as: VBS/Loveletter.ed,
VBS/Loveletter.Gen,
                    VBS_SPAMMER, VBS.Loveletter.FW.A

                    Category: Worm

                    Infection length: Variable

                    Virus definitions: May 18, 2000 (available)


'[PIC]: is there a way to name bits the same for C '
2001\02\16@093306 by mike
flavicon
face
In Hitech C, has anyone found a neat way to name a port + bit
combination such that the SAME name can be used with C and inline
assembler? i.e.
adc_cs=1;
#asm
...
bsf adc_cs
#endasm

Obviously I can define the port in 2 ways, one for each usage, but
that's a bit untidy....
e.g. for assembler #define adc_cs_a  _PORTB,4
for C
#define  adc_cs_c RB4

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


'[PIC]: MPLAB forgets most recently projects names'
2001\02\20@041152 by Martin Schaefer

flavicon
face
Hi,

with the new version of MPLAB V5.20.00 the most recently used project names
as well as the most recently used file names are gone after closing MPLAB
once. The option "Size of most recently used projects list" in "Environment
setup/Project" is set to 3. Did anyone know why, or is it simply a bug?

Martin


;**********************************************
;**   name:      Martin Schaefer             **
;**   company:   elektronik 21 GmbH, Germany **
;**   e-mail:    spamschaefer.....spam.....elektronik21.de    **
;**********************************************

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-request.....spammitvma.mit.edu


2001\02\20@081442 by Drew Vassallo

picon face
>with the new version of MPLAB V5.20.00 the most recently used project names
>as well as the most recently used file names are gone after closing MPLAB
>once. The option "Size of most recently used projects list" in "Environment
>setup/Project" is set to 3. Did anyone know why, or is it simply a bug?

I think it's a bug.. I get the same problem.  But isn't this a question for
Microchip?  Why not just send them an email?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTspammitvma.mit.edu



'[PICLIST] [OT] Brand Names/TradeMarks registration'
2001\05\09@111802 by John Waters
picon face
Hi all,

I've made up a brand name for my product, but not sure if it has been used,
is there any website where I can check for all kinds of Brand Names that
were already registered in Canada and USA (or even in Europe)?

If I use a brand name already registered by someone. How close could my
product be similar to his?

Thanks.

John
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2001\05\09@113427 by James Paul

flavicon
face
John,

I don't know about Canada, but in the US, you can check the USPTO,
(United States Patent and Trademark Office).   There is a website
directly to them.  I can't remember it's URL at the moment, but a
search should bring it up quickly.   Also, there are repositories
around the US.  I know of one at Rice University in Houston.
I know that one because I've used it before to search patents.
Hope this helps you out some.


                                             Regards,

                                                Jim





On Wed, 09 May 2001, John Waters wrote:

{Quote hidden}

spam_OUTjimspamTakeThisOuTjpes.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2001\05\09@113432 by Andy Faulkner

picon face
I asked the same question to our in house patents and
legal advisor who said the following.

To get a trade mark, you have to:

1. make a trade mark search to establish whether or
not the word has already been registered by somebody
else as a trade mark; if so, you can speak to that
person to see if they are actively using the mark or
whether they wouldbe prepared to sell it to you; if
not, see below.

2. make an application for registration at the Trade
Mark Registry of the Patent Office. You can make an
application for registration in the UK, European
Community or worldwide.

3. wait about 18 months for the registration to come
through. The time is necessary to allow people to
object. For example, if somebody is using the name
already (unregistered), then they will object to the
proposed registration and may get a priority based on
usage, in which case your application will be
refused. If no objections are raised, then see below.

4. pay the fee, which in the case of the UK trade mark
is around #1500,European Community mark around #1900,
and worldwide much more expensive depending which
countries you want to register it in.

This is what it takes. Oh, and a search costs about
#300.

Hope this helps


Andy Faulkner


--- John Waters <.....john_fm_waters.....spamRemoveMEHOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

_________________________________________________________________________
{Quote hidden}

=====

Andy Faulkner spam_OUTandyf97TakeThisOuTspamEraseMEyahoo.com
Pyrosync International http://www.pyrosync.co.uk

Tel +44 778 896  6087.....................UK Dial 0778 896 6087

Fax +44 870 132 3275.....................UK Dial 0870 132 3275
http://www.event-supplies.co.uk http://www.spectacular-fireworks.co.uk


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2001\05\09@113752 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
You can try a trademark search at http://www.uspto.gov

Harold

On Wed, 9 May 2001 11:18:02 -0400 John Waters
<EraseMEjohn_fm_watersspamBeGonespamKILLspamHOTMAIL.COM> writes:
{Quote hidden}

_________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
> ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.
>
>

FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules
Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2001\05\09@120417 by Jeff DeMaagd

flavicon
face
----- Original Message -----
From: John Waters <RemoveMEjohn_fm_watersspamBeGonespamspamHOTMAIL.COM>

> I've made up a brand name for my product, but not sure if it has been
used,
> is there any website where I can check for all kinds of Brand Names that
> were already registered in Canada and USA (or even in Europe)?
>
> If I use a brand name already registered by someone. How close could my
> product be similar to his?

I'd stay as far as possible.  I think there are lots of categories that you
can register under.  I think you can have an ACME brand shoe and some other
company owns the name for ACME brand computers and if they actually try to
sue each other I think the judge gives you a verbal "spanking" for being
idiots, so companies try to register in as many applicable categories as
possible.  I read somewhere that Intel even registered their name under
shoes and other rediculous things unrelated to electronics.

It gets more confused with domain names, I think Proctor and Gamble tried to
sue ajax.org or something, even though it had nothing to do with soap and I
believe ajax comes from ancient Greek, so it's not stealing the name from
P&G.

In short, if you are really doing a real product, get a real copyright &
trademark lawyer.

Jeff

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.



'[PIC]:pin names as arguments in Hi-Tech C'
2002\02\27@032303 by James Fitzsimons
flavicon
face
Hi all,
I have a question about passing the name of a pin as an argument to a
function. For example, I have a function driveservo(drivevalue, servopin)
and I might want to pass RA0 as the value for servopin.

The thing is, if I declare the function as void drvieservo(int drivevalue,
bit servopin) the compiler throws an error. I am a bit lost as to how to get
around this problem. I have tried a few hacks, but feel I am probably
missing something here.

Can anyone help out a Hi-Tech C newbie?

Thanks for any and all help,
James Fitzsimons

P.S I don't think it should make any difference, but driveservo is declared
in a different file (servo.c) than the file it is called from (motcont.c)

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\02\27@033141 by Michael Rigby-Jones

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

You cannot pass a 'bit' as an argument in HiTech.  One possible workaround
is to pass a bitmask which can be OR'd or AND'ed with the port to set or
clear a bit.

Mike

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\02\27@065759 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
> > Hi all,
> > I have a question about passing the name of a pin as an argument to a
> > function. For example, I have a function driveservo(drivevalue,
servopin)
> > and I might want to pass RA0 as the value for servopin.
> >
> > The thing is, if I declare the function as void drvieservo(int
drivevalue,
{Quote hidden}

(motcont.c)
> >
> You cannot pass a 'bit' as an argument in HiTech.  One possible workaround
> is to pass a bitmask which can be OR'd or AND'ed with the port to set or
> clear a bit.
>
> Mike
>

To expand on the idea a bit (no pun intended):
[i use unsigned char below for 8 bit values, as this is more ANSIish,
YMMV depending on your compiler]

void driveservo(int val, unsigned char *port, unsigned char mask)
{
   // to turn on the pin:
   *port |= mask;

   // to turn off the pin
   *port &= ~mask;

   // to test the pin
   if ( *port & mask )
       ...
}

void main()
{
   // Do pin RA5
   driveservo( 123, &PORTA, 1 << 5 );

   // And pin RB3
   driveservo( 456, &PORTB, 1 << 3 );
}

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics



'[OT]: WinXP / IE6 not looking up domain names?'
2002\03\14@005026 by Randy Glenn
flavicon
face
Hi all. I've got a problem with a Windows XP machine, running IE6. All
current service packs are installed.

As of, well, today, IE will assume certain domain names to have a certain IP
address - 24.226.1.207 (a cable modem address). After some time, it seems
almost any URL entered will result in IE trying to contact that host.

NSLOOKUP from the command prompt still queries the domain name server as it
should, and entering an IP address into IE causes it to bring up the proper
site.

I've run the most LiveUpdated Norton on the machine, and nothing. Also, I've
tried running SFC (there's no repair command for IE alone)  and a bunch of
reboots - has anyone heard of a problem like this before?

Thanks,

-Randy Glenn

Death to HTML Mail.
=================================================
   .....PICxpertRemoveMEspamcogeco.ca - KILLspamPICxpertspamTakeThisOuTyahoo.com
          http://picxpert.dyndns.org
   Not that the site works yet, of course...
=================================================

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\03\14@010014 by kent

flavicon
face
Sounds like you have a DNS cache problem.
Try
ipconfig -flushdns
Kent

{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\03\14@080721 by Rick C.

flavicon
face
Check your TCP/IP settings for your network card and make sure your DNS points
to your ISP's DNS.
Rick

Randy Glenn wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\03\14@082755 by ichard Phillips

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

hi,

i have heard of some problems like this before, and i'm afraid they're all
virus related.

given that you can perform dns lookups without problems, it isn't likely to
be dns cache poisoning or anything similar - so you'd suspect some kind of
trojan or virus that was affecting IE or at some other point in windows
networking.  Norton may not be catching it, but it's possible that if
something was in memory, it could disguise itself effectively.

you could try running the symptoms through AV search engines and see what
comes up (http://www.symantec.com for example)

I can't put my finger on any definite virus/trojan it could be, but it
sounds very suspicious.  Unless you can find an alternative cause, i'd
suggest reinstallation of the PC.  You could also try monitoring the comms
between yourself and the cablemodem ip, or installing an IDS such as Snort
(http://www.snort.org) to analyse the tcp/ip traffic.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\03\14@101821 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
I've run norton on a computer with a known (recent) virus, and the
latest virus file and scanning engine and it brought nothing up.  I then
tried the online (free) virusscanner at http://housecall.antivirus.com/
and it picked up the virus and cleaned the affected files.

I've never had an issue with norton before, and I'm sure that it was a
fluke, but it was /really/ frustrating to know there's a virus and not
be able to clean it.

I'd advise you to try another virus scanner(perhaps from a clean boot
disk) and see if it picks anything up missed by norton.

-Adam

Randy Glenn wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\03\14@102005 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
Has a proxy server been enabled in IE? TTYL

{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics



'[OT]: Names'
2002\05\06@042702 by Jafta
flavicon
face
A while ago there was a brief discussion about some of our revered
contributors running aroun with pooh smeared josh stix.  when I came
across this page I wondered where some got their names from!

Regards

Chris A

http://www.blarg.net/~critter/CamelidFamily/Camelid_Pix.htm

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spam_OUTpiclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@spammitvma.mit.edu


2002\05\06@143433 by jafta

flavicon
face
A while ago there was a brief discussion about some of our revered
contributors running aroun with pooh smeared josh stix.  when I came
across this page I wondered where some got their names from!

Regards

Chris A

http://www.blarg.net/~critter/CamelidFamily/Camelid_Pix.htm

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTspammitvma.mit.edu

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-request.....spamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu


2002\05\06@162500 by Jinx

face picon face
> http://www.blarg.net/~critter/CamelidFamily/Camelid_Pix.htm

A hairy beast of burden who gets no humps ? So close
to the truth I should open a vein in a hot bath.............

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspamRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu


2002\05\06@165821 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
Just remember, down, not across.

Dale
--
"Curiosity is the very basis of education and if you tell me that
curiosity killed the cat, I say only the cat died nobly."
         - Arnold Edinborough


On Tue, 7 May 2002, Jinx wrote:

> > http://www.blarg.net/~critter/CamelidFamily/Camelid_Pix.htm
>
> A hairy beast of burden who gets no humps ? So close
> to the truth I should open a vein in a hot bath.............

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spam_OUTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestRemoveMEspam.....mitvma.mit.edu


2002\05\06@184524 by Jinx

face picon face
> Just remember, down, not across.
>
> Dale

And I love you too

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spampiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu


'[PIC]: Label name length'
2002\05\30@223221 by Hai Nguyen

picon face
Hi everyone,
How long can a label name be?  Can it tell the difference between the two
labels below?

this_is_the_first_line_of_the_code
   nop
this_is_the_second_line_of_the_code
   nop
   goto    this_is_the_first_line_of_the_code

Thank you in advance!
thomas

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email spamlistservspam_OUTspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\05\30@225643 by =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio_Pereira?=

flavicon
face
Labels may be up to 32 characters long (as described at page 17 of
DS33014G).
So the MPASM will be able to diferenciate between these two labels ....

Regards,

Fabio


{Original Message removed}

2002\05\31@075036 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> How long can a label name be?

RTFM!

It took me about 30 seconds to find this.  This may not be the latest, but I
used DS33014G, "MPASM User's Guide with MPLINK and MPLIB", page 17, section
2.5.1.1, "Labels".


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
STOPspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu



'[OT]: Unfortunate names (was Effective resistance)'
2002\07\27@134354 by Dale Botkin
flavicon
face
Imagine my rabbi friend's son's surprise and chagrin when he did an
Internet search on his first name...  Yoni...  do your own research if
outside India.

Dale
--
"Curiosity is the very basis of education and if you tell me that
curiosity killed the cat, I say only the cat died nobly."
         - Arnold Edinborough


On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Edwin Katz wrote:

> I don't mean to offend, but "Pookie" is Tagalog (Phillipino) slang for a
> female's genitals. This is probably more than you wanted to know. Ed

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\07\28@221324 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
                                       > Imagine my rabbi friend's son's surprise and chagrin
when he did an
> Internet search on his first name...  Yoni...  do your own research if
> outside India.

I suppose "Lingam" would have been worse, particularly if the Rabbi was a moyhel.

Best regards,
Spehro
Pefhany

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.



'[EE]: enameled silver wire?'
2002\10\09@123221 by Roman Black
flavicon
face
Hi, does anyone know a good (ie decent price)
source for enameled silver wire? I need some
to wind a high efficiency inductor.
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2002\10\09@130623 by Jim

flavicon
face
Since 'skin effect' is applicable at all
frequencies except the very lowest - why
not tell us what you really want to do
and we can cut to the chase and recommend
the use of Litz wire or the use of flat copper ...

Classcically, I have seen silver-plated base
metals being used in those RF circuits where
resistive losses where to be minimized - including
large, free standing tuned RF coils.

RF Jim

{Original Message removed}

2002\10\09@132248 by Dave Tweed

face
flavicon
face
Roman Black <spam_OUTfastvidspamspamBeGoneEZY.NET.AU> wrote:
> Hi, does anyone know a good (ie decent price) source for enameled silver
> wire? I need some to wind a high efficiency inductor.

Are you sure it's worth the trouble and expense to use silver wire for a 6%
improvement in resistivity relative to copper?

Usually silver is only used in high-power RF circuits where skin effect is
significant, and then as plating over copper tubing.

-- Dave Tweed

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2002\10\09@135615 by Jim

flavicon
face
There are other methods to reduce losses
and get the 'Q' in a coil up - the use
of toroidal cores comes to mind since
using a core with a permeability much
greater than the "1" that air has will
naturally reduce the number of turns
required for a given coil inductance.

Then depending on frequency, physical core
size and current level the matter of
'magnetic core saturation' becomes a
concern ...


RF Jim

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2002\10\09@150840 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
Core losses can be substantial.  Chose a good material.
And core material also decides required size, thus wire length, thus wire loss.

Depending on core material the size of the core may differ much.
Then there is air gap to calculate/experiment with
Both size and material then decides wire length, thus wire losses
Oh well... you can calculate and test for a half eternity...

Basically, if you need high efficiency it is more economical to spend money on best suitable core material, and efficient shape, i.e spend time to wind on a torodial core.  If high freq use litz (several thin wires twined together), if very low turns high current high freq (5V winding in PC supply) use copper foil and that thin high insuating tape... i forgot the material.

/Morgan

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2002\10\10@005229 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Jim wrote:
>
> Since 'skin effect' is applicable at all
> frequencies except the very lowest - why
> not tell us what you really want to do
> and we can cut to the chase and recommend
> the use of Litz wire or the use of flat copper ...
>
> Classcically, I have seen silver-plated base
> metals being used in those RF circuits where
> resistive losses where to be minimized - including
> large, free standing tuned RF coils.


Hi Jim, actually I am well aware of skin effect, this
inductor will be operated at frequency of around 100Hz.
And I was planning on using multiple filar anyway
to make it easier to wind for a given resistance. :o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\10\10@005242 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Dave Tweed wrote:
>
> Roman Black <EraseMEfastvidspamKILLspamEZY.NET.AU> wrote:
> > Hi, does anyone know a good (ie decent price) source for enameled silver
> > wire? I need some to wind a high efficiency inductor.
>
> Are you sure it's worth the trouble and expense to use silver wire for a 6%
> improvement in resistivity relative to copper?


Is it only 6%?? Darn, I knew I should have looked it
up first. :o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\10\10@005512 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Morgan Olsson wrote:
>
> Core losses can be substantial.  Chose a good material.
> And core material also decides required size, thus wire length, thus wire loss.
>
> Depending on core material the size of the core may differ much.
> Then there is air gap to calculate/experiment with
> Both size and material then decides wire length, thus wire losses
> Oh well... you can calculate and test for a half eternity...
>
> Basically, if you need high efficiency it is more economical to spend money on best suitable core material, and efficient shape, i.e spend time to wind on a torodial core.  If high freq use litz (several thin wires twined together), if very low turns high current high freq (5V winding in PC supply) use copper foil and that thin high insuating tape... i forgot the material.


Thanks Morgan, actually I have 20 years worth of
cores and toroids in all sizes and materials, and ferrite
Ecores and potcores in many variations. Recently i've
found Jaycar Australia stocking some cheap and high-
performance ferrite toroids, which I tested to perform
better than the expensive specialty Philips potcores
I bought some years ago.

This new app is basically a "toy" or conversation piece,
a low frequency mechanical SMPS "scavenger engine" to
suck the last electrons from dying 1.5v cells, and
charge my good 1.5v NiCd cells. :o)

I've had the opportunity years ago to examine two types
of mechanical high-efficiency SMPS, rotary and vibrator
military types from the '50s.

I thought that an attractive desktop scavenger engine
would be fun to make. :o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\10\10@041919 by Vasile Surducan

flavicon
face
On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Dave Tweed wrote:

> Roman Black <EraseMEfastvidRemoveMEspamEZY.NET.AU> wrote:
> > Hi, does anyone know a good (ie decent price) source for enameled silver
> > wire? I need some to wind a high efficiency inductor.
>
> Are you sure it's worth the trouble and expense to use silver wire for a 6%
> improvement in resistivity relative to copper?
>
  A silver wire means a little chemistry and a clean copper wire.
 Any photo lab amateurs must know how to do it...
 and for an electronist working between 500...1GHz this "how to do" is
 imperative :)

 best, Vasile

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\10\10@071608 by Mike Singer

picon face
Vasile Surducan wrote:
> > Roman Black <.....fastvidspamspam_OUTEZY.NET.AU> wrote:
> > > Hi, does anyone know a good (ie decent price) source for enameled
silver
> > > wire? I need some to wind a high efficiency inductor.
> >
> > Are you sure it's worth the trouble and expense to use silver wire
for a 6%
> > improvement in resistivity relative to copper?
> >
>    A silver wire means a little chemistry and a clean copper wire.
>   Any photo lab amateurs must know how to do it...
>   and for an electronist working between 500...1GHz this "how to do"
is
>   imperative :)

Vasile,
read carefully: "improvement in resistivity relative to copper"
Not thin silver layer resistivity, but the whole wire resistivity.

Mike.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\10\10@100531 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> Recently i've
> found Jaycar Australia stocking some cheap and high-
> performance ferrite toroids, which I tested to perform
> better than the expensive specialty Philips potcores
> I bought some years ago.

The Jaycar cores *APPEAR* to be "Micrometals" products (but may not be).
Micrometals parts have colour coded coatings to reflect the core material
and these colour combinations are copyrighted. However, some cores I was
sent from Taiwan that have never ever graced the shores of the US of A are
identically coded.

Micrometals website     http://www.micrometals.com/    is worth a look and
the cores are very reasonably priced. They have an excellent combination
catalogue and design guide which they may send you if you ask nicely (or
click on the catalog request button). Their book is worth reading - it
explains why you should buy their cores and not other peoples and what might
happen if you don't. You may almost believe them once you read it :-). (My
Taiwanese clones (which I had no choice in the sourcing of) work just fine
in my application - so far.)(In fact "so far" is a major issue - powdered
iron cores DO have an age limit related to time-temperature performance and
an inferior core may well self destruct itself or your design in due
course.)(Due course CAN be very short.)

They also have free power inductor and RF design software.

I bought ?hundred of one type of core from them and samples and 5 or 10 of
quite a few other types. They only charged for the large order and gave me
the rest free. YMMV.



       Russell McMahon

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\10\10@101527 by Dave Tweed

face
flavicon
face
Vasile Surducan <@spam@vasileEraseMEspamspamS3.ITIM-CJ.RO> wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Dave Tweed wrote:
> > Roman Black <fastvidTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamEZY.NET.AU> wrote:
> > > Hi, does anyone know a good (ie decent price) source for enameled silver
> > > wire? I need some to wind a high efficiency inductor.
> >
> > Are you sure it's worth the trouble and expense to use silver wire for a 6%
> > improvement in resistivity relative to copper?
>
> A silver wire means a little chemistry and a clean copper wire.
> Any photo lab amateurs must know how to do it...

That produces silver-plated wire. Roman asked for "enameled silver" wire.

> and for an electronist working between 500...1GHz this "how to do" is
> imperative :)

Why?

The main purpose of the silver plating is to provide corrosion protection
for the underlying copper without compromising its surface conductivity.
Silver oxide is much more conductive than copper oxide. If the wire is
enameled, then this is pointless. (Note however that plating is useful
under other types of insulation that bind less tightly to the surface of
the wire; e.g., wire-wrap wire.)

As I said, the difference in resistivity for the pure metals is about 6%
(about 1.6 uohm-cm for silver, 1.72 uohm-cm for copper). The higher
conductivity of silver also has the effect of reducing the skin depth by
about 3%. Note that these effects cancel each other in terms of the overall
resistance of the conductor at a given frequency, so electrically speaking,
the overall improvement is about 3%, which is insignificant.

-- Dave Tweed

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\10\11@022359 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Dave Tweed wrote:
*>> A silver wire means a little chemistry and a clean copper wire.
*>> Any photo lab amateurs must know how to do it...
*>
*>That produces silver-plated wire. Roman asked for "enameled silver" wire.

A 0.2mm copper wire plated with silver till it is 1mm thick is silver wire
for most practical purposes.

Peter

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


'[EE]: enameled silver wire? Now: Silver plate in R'
2002\10\11@094626 by Jim

flavicon
face
Excerpted from:

http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/why_silver_plate.html


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


GBPPR Tech Bulletin #3 - Why Silver Plate RF Components?

Silver plating RF components is a concept amateur radio operators fail to
recognize.  ...

Excerpt from Carl, KM1H

Silver plating is used to preserve performance and RF conductivity in widely
varying enviroments such as the military.  For average ham use it probably
is not important.  The output of my 432 MHz cavity amp has not changed in 20
years and it is all copper and brass.  The only true silver plate is the
industrial style hard plate and there are variations there also.  Best to
consult a professional plater for details.  The brush-on soft plate is a
sham and has been described as such by many VHF/UHF authors.

End excerpt



Excerpt from Gary, KE4ZV

... Perhaps, or perhaps not.  Since a lot of RF conductors are silver
plated, and silver isn't cheap, it seems a bit hard to swallow that those
hard headed manufacturing engineers are doing it just for decoration,
especially since most of that silver plate is never seen by the customer.
Even Detroit doesn't chrome plate the inside of its engines without a sound
technical reason.

So perhaps we're overlooking a factor here.  I think Jack may have given us
a clue.  Lets see what the oxides of the two metals look like.  Right away
we notice something striking.  CuO (copper oxide) has a magnetic
susceptability of +267 while AgO (silver oxide) has a magnetic
susceptability of -19.  Hmmm... now that seems to put us on the footing
where we found ourselves when discussing steel wire for antennas a few
months back.  (By way of comparison, the magnetic susceptability of FeO
(ferric oxide, rust) is 293.)  The much higher magnetic susceptability of
CuO means the skin depth will be *very* thin, and net skin resistivity very
high.  Meanwhile, the negative value for AgO means that the skin depth will
be greater than anticipated, so the margin between the two for RF seems much
greater than 3%.

Figures are from the CRC Handbook, 47th edition, table starting on page
E-103.

As with steel versus copper for antenna wires, we have to look beyond DC
resistance to find out which material is better suited to the task.  It
turns out that oxidized copper is almost as bad as oxidized steel as an RF
conductor.  That shouldn't surprise us, corroded coax (from water wicking
into the braid) is a very lossy medium.  Now we know why.

End excerpt



Excerpt from Rudy, N6LF

Sometimes silver plating is suggested for conductors.  The conductivity of
silver is only 6% better than copper, but when the surface oxidizes, silver
oxide is a much better conductor than copper oxide.

End excerpt



Excerpt from PolyPhaser Technical Document PTD1010

Silver oxide is the only oxide (that we know of) that is conductive.  This
is one reason why PolyPhaser's N-type coax connectors are all silver with
gold center pins.  Copper oxide is not conductive and the proper application
of joint compound will prevent oxidation.

End excerpt



Excerpt from the ARRL Handbook

... Silver plating the tubing further reduces losses.  This is especially
true as the tubing ages and oxidizes.  Silver oxide is a much better
conductor than copper oxides, so silver-plated tank coils maintain their
low-loss characteristics even after years of use.

End excerpt

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

RF Jim


{Original Message removed}

2002\10\11@150701 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Russell McMahon wrote:

> > found Jaycar Australia stocking some cheap and high-
> > performance ferrite toroids
>
> The Jaycar cores *APPEAR* to be "Micrometals" products (but may not be).
> Micrometals parts have colour coded coatings to reflect the core material
> (My
> Taiwanese clones (which I had no choice in the sourcing of) work just fine
> in my application - so far.)(In fact "so far" is a major issue - powdered
> iron cores DO have an age limit

Hi Russell, when you say Jaycar toroids with coloured
coatings I think you mean their powdered iron types?
I have been buying these since 1986 in the early grey
coat, and lately in the newer green coat. They are
terrible for SMPS unless you need a lossy core for
actual "choke" use (as opposed to conversion use).

The new Jaycar toroids I was referring to are the bare
ferrite ones on catalogue page 79, these are SUPERB
compared to the powdered iron type. I've been testing
their new ferrite toroids over the last couple of weeks,
getting around 12x the inductance for the same turns
as the iron ones, and much better current/saturation
performance.

I've *hated* those lossy iron things for years, which
is why I have a heap of expensive specialty Philips
and RS ferrite cores for SMPS use. But these new ferrite
toroids outperform anything I have here including all
the ferrite toroids I have salvaged from commercial
SMPS units.

As an example the 18mm diameter ring with one layer
of 0.8mm wire (30 turns) is 800uH and 0.027 ohms.
The 25mm ring with one layer 1.0mm wire (32 turns)
is 1400uH and 0.023 ohms! I can't get figures like
these even on expensive potcores 3 times the size.

BTW I have some old powdered iron ones that *have*
rusted and split open, but some have hung in there
in use for 16 years. :o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\10\11@161137 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Silver oxide is the only oxide (that we know of) that is conductive.

I thought tin oxide is also conductive?


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\10\12@003541 by Jim

flavicon
face
What does your experience probing with dull
scope or DVM probes on a circuit's solder joints
tell you?

RF Jim


{Original Message removed}

2002\10\12@052157 by Thomas C. Sefranek

face picon face
I believe the tarnish on silver is silver SULFIDE...

 *
 |  __O    Thomas C. Sefranek   RemoveMEtcsTakeThisOuTspamcmcorp.com
 |_-\<,_   Amateur Radio Operator: WA1RHP
 (*)/ (*)  Bicycle mobile on 145.41, 448.625 MHz

hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html
http://www.harvardrepeater.org

{Original Message removed}

2002\10\12@103153 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> > I thought tin oxide is also conductive?
>
> What does your experience probing with dull
> scope or DVM probes on a circuit's solder joints
> tell you?

Not much since there is also lead in the equation somewhere.

I don't know what resistivity you require to call something "conductive",
but it was my recollection that tin oxide was used as a conductive and
transparent layer in some LCDs.  I vaguely remember this from a Scientific
American article introducing LCDs in the early to mid 1970s.  This practise
may have been discontinued long ago, or I may just remember wrong
altogether.  Anyone that knows about LDC details care to comment?


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email @spam@listservSTOPspamspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\10\12@104317 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> I believe the tarnish on silver is silver SULFIDE...

Hmm, so where does the sulfur come from when silverware gets tarnished
sitting in a drawer in the basement for a year?  Is there really that much
sulfur dioxide or whatever in the atmosphere?


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email TakeThisOuTlistservTakeThisOuTspamRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\10\12@105400 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Hmm, so where does the sulfur come from when silverware gets tarnished
>sitting in a drawer in the basement for a year?  Is there really that much
>sulfur dioxide or whatever in the atmosphere?

I guess it depends on where you live. Do remember that one of the major
pollutants from motor vehicle fumes is sulphur products, and even the recent
low sulphur fuels are exactly that - they still contain sulphur products.

I guess if you lived on a desert island with no motor vehicles the silver
tarnish rate may be quite low :))))

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email spam_OUTlistservspamspam.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\10\12@143846 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> I guess it depends on where you live. Do remember that one of the major
> pollutants from motor vehicle fumes is sulphur products, and even the
recent
> low sulphur fuels are exactly that - they still contain sulphur products.
>
> I guess if you lived on a desert island with no motor vehicles the silver
> tarnish rate may be quite low :))))

That would mean the need to polish silver to remove tarnish would have been
much less before the industrial revolution.  I had the impression (perhaps
incorrectly) that this was a chore people had to do as far back as there was
silverware.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email listserv.....spam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\10\12@145537 by Doug Butler

picon face
It was a chore as far back as there was silverware and egg yolks.

Doug Butler
Sherpa Engineering


> {Original Message removed}

2002\10\12@173915 by Jinx

face picon face
> It was a chore as far back as there was silverware and egg yolks.
>
> Doug Butler
> Sherpa Engineering

Was that before or after there were chickens ?

One place to really study AgS is Rotorua, or Sulphur City, in the
geothermic middle of NZ's North Island. Only the brave have silver

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email spamBeGonelistservspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\10\13@014345 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:

*>I don't know what resistivity you require to call something "conductive",
*>but it was my recollection that tin oxide was used as a conductive and
*>transparent layer in some LCDs.  I vaguely remember this from a Scientific
*>American article introducing LCDs in the early to mid 1970s.  This practise
*>may have been discontinued long ago, or I may just remember wrong
*>altogether.  Anyone that knows about LDC details care to comment?

That is not tin oxide, it is Indium Tin Oxide (ITO), which is a different
substance. It is a complex oxide.

Peter

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-request.....spammitvma.mit.edu


2002\10\13@014953 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:

*>> I guess it depends on where you live. Do remember that one of the major
*>> pollutants from motor vehicle fumes is sulphur products, and even the
*>recent
*>> low sulphur fuels are exactly that - they still contain sulphur products.
*>>
*>> I guess if you lived on a desert island with no motor vehicles the silver
*>> tarnish rate may be quite low :))))
*>
*>That would mean the need to polish silver to remove tarnish would have been
*>much less before the industrial revolution.  I had the impression (perhaps
*>incorrectly) that this was a chore people had to do as far back as there was
*>silverware.

They were burning coal and wood. Both produce lots of sulfurous smoke.
There is also the psychology of saying 'polishing the silver' instead of
mentioning the square hectometers of windows and floors that also needed
cleaning and polishing.

Peter

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spampiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu


2002\10\13@090328 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>One place to really study AgS is Rotorua, or Sulphur City, in the
>geothermic middle of NZ's North Island. Only the brave have silver

On the other hand they could do like the Russians and not polish it. All the
silverware in the Moscow Kremlin is left to tarnish. The Russian attitude is
that polishing it will remove the detail from the silverwork.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-requestspamspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu


2002\10\13@100209 by Jim

flavicon
face
I rememberd a series of 'tests' I performed on
some "Cinch-Jones" plugs and sockets while driving
yesterday.

In the mid-80's I was doing engineering work on an RKT
(retrofit kit) for the LRU-1 Test Set for the Panavia
Tornado Nose mounted dual-mode RADAR's central ddigital
processor  ... one of these six "pin" connectors were
used as the power and ground connector on each of the
wire-warapped board in the CCB (central circuit board)
assembly.

Each of the 'spade'-style connector 'pins' had some sort
of tin or tin-lead plate - and *NEW* out of stock would
stand-off (insulate, NOT conduct) voltages of .1 to .2
volts due to some sort of oxide (?) layer and dropped
something even larger than that when in service.

I made the decision based on the poor performance of this
fifties-vintage connector to replace them with some
superior-performing Molex connectors ...

RF Jim

{Original Message removed}

2002\10\13@103011 by tcs

face picon face
You probably have heard the term "acid Rain",
The principles of combustion of sulfur laden fuels (Home heating oils, Jet
fuel, desel fuel etc.)
causes much more sulfur dioxide than you might be aware of in the "air".
(Besides have you ever followed (smelled) a car with a malfunctioning
catalytic converter....)

> {Original Message removed}

2002\10\13@135353 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Alan B. Pearce wrote:

*>>One place to really study AgS is Rotorua, or Sulphur City, in the
*>>geothermic middle of NZ's North Island. Only the brave have silver
*>
*>On the other hand they could do like the Russians and not polish it. All the
*>silverware in the Moscow Kremlin is left to tarnish. The Russian attitude is
*>that polishing it will remove the detail from the silverwork.

Maybe they can't afford the continuous cleaning ;-)

Peter

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestRemoveMEspammitvma.mit.edu


2002\10\13@173712 by Jinx

face picon face
> >One place to really study AgS is Rotorua, or Sulphur City, in the
> >geothermic middle of NZ's North Island. Only the brave have silver
>
> On the other hand they could do like the Russians and not polish it.
> All the silverware in the Moscow Kremlin is left to tarnish. The Russian
> attitude is that polishing it will remove the detail from the silverwork

And you'd know from the Antiques Roadshow that "amateur" cleaning
is frowned on. I can't see Liz and Phil eating off something that looks
like pewter though

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@spam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu



'[OT]:Frequency of occurence of baby names in USA -'
2003\01\27@043014 by Russell McMahon
face
flavicon
face
Official statistics on names given to babies in USA.

       http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/index.html

Various breakdowns available eg
       1000 most popular names in 1950's for males and females

       http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/1999/top1000of50s.html



___________________

I was wondering about relative frequency of Allan versus Alan as a Christian
name.
Alan is about 4.5 times more common amongst 1950's male babies in USA.
Similar result for 1990s.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


'[EE]: What's the formal name for an ATX PS connec'
2003\04\08@122545 by PicDude
flavicon
face
Anyone know where I can find ATX power connectors.  These are 20-pin female
(like the one on the power supply) w/a locking tab, but I'm not sure what
they're called.  Ideally, it would be nice to find a PCB-mount version of
it, but wired will work.

Thanks,
-Neil.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\08@124052 by Ned Konz

flavicon
face
On Tuesday 08 April 2003 09:23 am, PicDude wrote:
> Anyone know where I can find ATX power connectors.  These are
> 20-pin female (like the one on the power supply) w/a locking tab,
> but I'm not sure what they're called.  Ideally, it would be nice to
> find a PCB-mount version of it, but wired will work.

From
http://www.dansdata.com/spcables.htm (the first hit I got from Google:
www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=%22atx+power+connector%22+%2220+pin%22+%28AMP%2Cmolex%29&btnG=Google+Search
)

According to the ATX power supply specification, the 20 pin ATX power
plug is a Molex 39-01-2200 or equivalent, and it plugs into a Molex
39-29-9202 or equivalent.

--
Ned Konz
http://bike-nomad.com
GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\08@132242 by PicDude

flavicon
face
Thanks.



{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

'What's the formal name for an ATX PS connector?'
2003\04\08@150942 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Anyone know where I can find ATX power connectors.  These are 20-pin
> female (like the one on the power supply) w/a locking tab, but I'm not
> sure what they're called.  Ideally, it would be nice to find a
> PCB-mount version of it, but wired will work.

I remember seeing some sort of PC motherboard power connectors in the
Jameco catalog.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\09@090606 by Madhu Annapragada

picon face
I believe Molex Mini-Fit Line of connectors are similar. You can get a
better idea from the Molex web site (http://www.molex.com).
Madhu

-----Original Message-----
Anyone know where I can find ATX power connectors.  These are 20-pin female
(like the one on the power supply) w/a locking tab, but I'm not sure what
they're called.  Ideally, it would be nice to find a PCB-mount version of
it, but wired will work.
Thanks,
-Neil.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

'[PIC]: How do I get variable names to show up in 6'
2003\04\17@212649 by James Williams

picon face
Hello,

Can someone please tell me how I can get variable labels to show up in
MPLAb 6.x watch window.  None of my labels for the variables ram show up
in the drop down list.  The only thing that shows up is the labels for
routines.

I have try to declare my variables as follows:
FLAGS5            EQU 0X101

However they the label FLAGS5 does not show up in the watch window.
Now, I have to remember all of my hex addresses for the variables in
order to watch the contents of those registers.  I have some 200 bytes
of global variables declared.

Thanks,

James


--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\04\17@231347 by Jinx

face picon face
> However the label FLAGS5 does not show up in the watch window.
> Now, I have to remember all of my hex addresses for the variables in
> order to watch the contents of those registers.  I have some 200 bytes
> of global variables declared.

If you right-click on any of the Address, Symbol Name or Value field
headers you can tick/untick them for display

My gripe with Watch (probably my fault because there's a control
I haven't found), is that the Add Symbol pull-down shows just 4
variables at a time, and scrolling through is a pain. Not a big job
but still a pain

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\04\17@235344 by Quentin

flavicon
face
>
>
>My gripe with Watch (probably my fault because there's a control
>I haven't found), is that the Add Symbol pull-down shows just 4
>variables at a time, and scrolling through is a pain. Not a big job
>but still a pain
>
Tip: After you've opened the pull down, type in the first few letters
of  the register. That is with 6.20 AFIAK with 6.1x, you can only enter
the first letter.

Quentin

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\04\17@235352 by Ned Konz

flavicon
face
On Thursday 17 April 2003 06:25 pm, James Williams wrote:

> Can someone please tell me how I can get variable labels to show up
> in MPLAb 6.x watch window.  None of my labels for the variables ram
> show up in the drop down list.  The only thing that shows up is the
> labels for routines.
>
> I have try to declare my variables as follows:
> FLAGS5            EQU 0X101
>
> However they the label FLAGS5 does not show up in the watch window.
> Now, I have to remember all of my hex addresses for the variables
> in order to watch the contents of those registers.  I have some 200
> bytes of global variables declared.

You didn't declare a variable; you just defined a numeric constant.

Have you tried actually using RES and relocatable objects so your
names get into the map?

--
Ned Konz
http://bike-nomad.com
GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\04\18@004607 by Jinx

face picon face
> Tip: After you've opened the pull down, type in the first few letters
> of  the register. That is with 6.20 AFIAK with 6.1x, you can only enter
> the first letter.

That does work with 6.0.20.0 and I've used it to jump to a position
in the list where there might be variables with similar names, eg
result1, result2, result3 etc. What I was hoping for was a bigger
window - "I'll have that one, and that one, those two.........", as you
can when selecting files in a folder with CTRL-click or boxing

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\18@050230 by Quentin

flavicon
face
>
>
>That does work with 6.0.20.0 and I've used it to jump to a position
>in the list where there might be variables with similar names, eg
>result1, result2, result3 etc. What I was hoping for was a bigger
>window - "I'll have that one, and that one, those two.........", as you
>can when selecting files in a folder with CTRL-click or boxing
>
Ah yes, I would like that as well. Maybe with MPlab V10.00 we'll have it.
;)
Quentin

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\18@073313 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
If you have Microsoft Visual Studio you can probably open the program 'as
resources', find the offending drop-down list, stretch its open state out
further, and then save it back.

You'll have to repeat the process with each new version.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

{Original Message removed}

2003\04\18@084014 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> None of my labels for the variables ram show up
> in the drop down list.  The only thing that shows up is the labels for
> routines.
>
> I have try to declare my variables as follows:
> FLAGS5            EQU 0X101
>
> However they the label FLAGS5 does not show up in the watch window.

That's because it's not a label, just a symbolic constant.  As has been
said *many* times here before, "allocating" RAM with EQU statements is a
bad idea and very bad programming practise.  This is not a PIC issue, but
a general programming and common sense issue.

The proper way to allocate RAM is with the RES directive.  MPLAB will then
understand those symbols to be RAM addresses, and will allow you to use
them in watch windows, for example.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\18@093241 by Jinx

face picon face
> > I have try to declare my variables as follows:
> > FLAGS5            EQU 0X101
> >
> > However the label FLAGS5 does not show up in the watch window.
>
> That's because it's not a label, just a symbolic constant

flags5  equ 0x20  (first RAM in an F628)

does show Address, Name and Value in a Watch window

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\18@144542 by Andrew Warren

flavicon
face
Olin Lathrop <spamBeGonePICLISTKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> > I have try to declare my variables as follows:
> > FLAGS5            EQU 0X101
> >
> > However they the label FLAGS5 does not show up in the watch window.
>
> That's because it's not a label, just a symbolic constant.

   No, Olin, that's not why.  30 seconds spent actually trying it
   would show you that the watch window WILL show registers whose
   names are assigned with EQU.

> As has been said *many* times here before,

   ... by you, anyway...

> "allocating" RAM with EQU statements is a bad idea and very bad
> programming practise. .... The proper way to allocate RAM is with
> the RES directive.

   RES is one way, EQU is another, CBLOCK is a third.  I see no
   compelling reason for anyone to switch from absolute mode to
   relocatable just for the RES directive.

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- aiw@spam@spamKILLspamcypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\18@150422 by Ned Konz

flavicon
face
On Thursday 17 April 2003 08:51 pm, I wrote:
> On Thursday 17 April 2003 06:25 pm, James Williams wrote:
> > Can someone please tell me how I can get variable labels to show
> > up in MPLAb 6.x watch window.  None of my labels for the
> > variables ram show up in the drop down list.  The only thing that
> > shows up is the labels for routines.
> >
> > I have try to declare my variables as follows:
> > FLAGS5            EQU 0X101
> >
> > However they the label FLAGS5 does not show up in the watch
> > window. Now, I have to remember all of my hex addresses for the
> > variables in order to watch the contents of those registers.  I
> > have some 200 bytes of global variables declared.
>
> You didn't declare a variable; you just defined a numeric constant.
>
> Have you tried actually using RES and relocatable objects so your
> names get into the map?

It looks like EQUs also get into the map. I didn't notice this as I
almost always use RES and relocatable objects.

Have you tried typing the name into the "Add symbol" combo box in the
watch window? Once you see your label, just hit the adjacent button.

Or you can type the name into the "Symbol name" column in the first
empty slot in the display window.

Sorry to steer you wrong.
--
Ned Konz
http://bike-nomad.com
GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\18@160441 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
Andrew Warren wrote:
>     No, Olin, that's not why.  30 seconds spent actually trying it
>     would show you that the watch window WILL show registers whose
>     names are assigned with EQU.

Maybe that's a version 6 thing.  I just verified that symbols defined with
EQU that have valid values for RAM addresses are definitely not available
in the list of symbols to display in a watch window in version 5.

>     RES is one way, EQU is another, CBLOCK is a third.  I see no
>     compelling reason for anyone to switch from absolute mode to
>     relocatable just for the RES directive.

There are lots of compelling reasons for relocatable mode.  I can see how
some of the old timers may want to keep writing absolute code because
that's all that was available when they started and want to keep their
system in place.  If you've got lots of PIC experience and know what you
are doing, do whatever is comfortable for you.  However, recommending
absolute mode to newbies is just plain irresponsible.

Beyond that there are clear advantages of CBLOCK over EQU and RES over
CBLOCK for defining RAM address symbols.  EQU merely sets a symbol to a
value.  The assembler has absolutely no idea that you think of that value
as being a RAM location.  There is no mechanism to prevent multiple RAM
variables from being "allocated" at the same address by accident.  CBLOCK
is a little better in that it causes symbolic contants to be created with
sequential values.  However, these are still just arbitrary constants, and
CBLOCK only keeps one "last assigned" value.  This makes it difficult to
use with different RAM regions (access bank, global 16 family ram from
70h - 7F, etc) or fragmented banks.

RES is the only means in MPASM to actually *allocate* RAM.  One RAM
location can not be allocated more than once, no matter how many RES
directives there are scattered between modules.  Since the allocation is
actually done in the linker, RAM is allocated separately from each
section, like access bank, global RAM, etc.

Now c'mon Andy, you know all this.  This is right out of Introduction to
Software 101.  You clearly like to find faults with my posts whenever you
can, but let's not let that get in the way of good advice to newbies who
don't have the familiarity and long history with PICs that you have.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\18@173100 by James Williams

picon face
Yes, I have also tried the following:
USHARE
FLAGS5 RES 1

But it still does not show in the drop down in the watch window.  In
MPLAB, the defined constants always showed up in the watch window.



{Original Message removed}

2003\04\18@174643 by James Williams

picon face
What is really annoying is that all my jump labels show up in the watch
window.  This to me seems pointless.

Ok, I am using relocatable objects in my project.  In fact, my project
has some 50 relocatable object files.  I have my variables declared in a
single include file.  The file is listed below.  I include this file in
each asm file which makes up my application.  Also as can be seen, I use
CBLOCK to define my variable registers.  However, the watch window
simple does not show these labels in the symbol drop down box.

Sorry for the long message.
;==========================================================
;File Name:     MotionData.inc
;Author:        James Williams
;Created:       02/01/2002
;Description:
;       This file contains all the data variable allocations.
;       Plus any bit definitions.
;Modified:
;==========================================================

IFNDEF GLOBVAR
#DEFINE GLOBVAR
#DEFINE __DEBUG
       LIST P=18F452 ERRORLEVEL -302
       ;All global variables are contained in bank 2 0x100 of ram.
       CBLOCK 0x100
       MOTION_STATE                    ;Holds signal state information
       FLAGS1
       FLAGS2
       ACCELFLAGS
       NUM_PACKETS_L,NUM_PACKETS_H,NUM_PACKETS_U
       PACKET_CNTR
       HOME_POSX_L,HOME_POSX_H,HOME_POSX_U
       HOME_POSY_L,HOME_POSY_H,HOME_POSY_U
       HOME_POSZ_L,HOME_POSZ_H
       PARK_POSX_L,PARK_POSX_H,PARK_POSX_U
       PARK_POSY_L,PARK_POSY_H,PARK_POSY_U
       PARK_POSZ_L,PARK_POSZ_H
       CUR_POSX_L,CUR_POSX_H,CUR_POSX_U
       CUR_POSY_L,CUR_POSY_H,CUR_POSY_U
       CUR_POSZ_L,CUR_POSZ_H
       DESTX_L,DESTX_H,DESTX_U
       DESTY_L,DESTY_H,DESTY_U
       DESTZ_L,DESTZ_H
       MAG_MIDPOINT_L,MAG_MIDPOINT_H,MAG_MIDPOINT_U
       ACCEL_DIST_L,ACCEL_DIST_H,ACCEL_DIST_U
       DECEL_DIST_L,DECEL_DIST_H,DECEL_DIST_U
       FXLIMIT_L,FXLIMIT_H,FXLIMIT_U
       BXLIMIT_L,BXLIMIT_H,BXLIMIT_U
       FYLIMIT_L,FYLIMIT_H,FYLIMIT_U
       BYLIMIT_L,BYLIMIT_H,BYLIMIT_U
       FZLIMIT_L,FZLIMIT_H
       BZLIMIT_L,BZLIMIT_H
       XOFFSET_L,XOFFSET_H
       YOFFSET_L,YOFFSET_H
       ZOFFSET_L,ZOFFSET_H
       HOMERATE_L,HOMERATE_H
       FEEDRATE_L,FEEDRATE_H
       RAPIDRATE_L,RAPIDRATE_H
       JOGRATE_L,JOGRATE_H
       JOGSLOW_L,JOGSLOW_H
       JOG_INTERVAL
       XMICRO_ERR
       AXIS_REG
       AUXILARY_REG
       TRICKEL_FREQ_PERIOD,TRICKEL_PRESCALE
       WORK_FREQ_PERIOD,WORK_PRESCALE
       TRICKEL_DUTY_L,TRICKEL_DUTY_H
       WORK_DUTY_L,WORK_DUTY_H
       XPIX_UNIT,XPIX_CNTR,XPIX_EXTRA
       YPIX_UNIT,YPIX_CNTR,YPIX_EXTRA
       MOTIONRATE_L,MOTIONRATE_H
       PREVIOUSRATE_L,PREVIOUSRATE_H
       ACCELMOTION_L,ACCELMOTION_H
       ACCELRATE_L,ACCELRATE_H
       DECCELRATE_L,DECCELRATE_H
       EPS_ERR1_L,EPS_ERR1_H,EPS_ERR1_U
       EPS_ERR2_L,EPS_ERR2_H,EPS_ERR2_U
       A_ARG_L,A_ARG_H,A_ARG_U
       B_ARG_L,B_ARG_H,B_ARG_U
       TXDATAPTR_L,TXDATAPRT_H
       TXSIZE
       AUTO_CONTROLS
       TIMEOUT_L,TIMEOUT_H
       DELTA1_L,DELTA1_H,DELTA1_U
       DELTA2_L,DELTA2_H,DELTA2_U
       DELTA3_L,DELTA3_H,DELTA3_U
       DELTA_CHECK_L,DELTA_CHECK_H,DELTA_CHECK_U
       DELTA_ADJ_L,DELTA_ADJ_H,DELTA_ADJ_U
       DELTA2_ADJ_L,DELTA2_ADJ_H,DELTA2_ADJ_U
       MAJOR_AXIS,MINOR1_AXIS,MINOR2_AXIS
       INCDEC_REG
       ;Raster varibles
       RASTER_FLAGS
       RASTER_BEGIN_X,RASTER_BEGIN_X_H,RASTER_BEGIN_X_U
       RASTER_BEGIN_Y,RASTER_BEGIN_Y_H,RASTER_BEGIN_Y_U
       RASTER_END_X,RASTER_END_X_H,RASTER_END_X_U
       RASTER_NUM_PIXELS,RASTER_NUM_PIXELS_H,RASTER_NUM_PIXELS_U
       RASTER_NEXTX,RASTER_NEXTX_H,RASTER_NEXTX_U
       RST_BEGIN_ACC_POS,RST_BEGIN_ACC_POSH,RST_BEGIN_ACC_POSU
       RST_BEGIN_DECC_POS,RST_BEGIN_DECC_POSH,RST_BEGIN_DECC_POSU
       STATE_REG,ACCELCLK_L,ACCELCLK_H
       ENDC
       CBLOCK  0x0000
       COMMAND_ID
       CMDDATA1,CMDDATA2,CMDDATA3
       CMDDATA4,CMDDATA5,CMDDATA6
       CMDDATA7,CMDDATA8,CMDDATA9
       CMDDATA10,CMDDATA11,CMDDATA12
       CMDDATA13,CMDDATA14,CMDDATA15,CMDDATA16
       CMDDATA17,CMDDATA18,CMDDATA19,CMDDATA20
       SWSTACK         ;Beginning of software stack.
       ENDC

;Below is associationed definitions for the first byte of each 2 or more
byte variable
XHOME                   EQU HOME_POSX_L
YHOME                   EQU HOME_POSY_L
ZHOME                   EQU HOME_POSZ_L
XPARK                   EQU PARK_POSX_L
YPARK                   EQU PARK_POSY_L
ZPARK                   EQU PARK_POSZ_L
NUM_PACKETS             EQU NUM_PACKETS_L
CUR_POSITION_X  EQU CUR_POSX_L
CUR_POSITION_Y  EQU CUR_POSY_L
CUR_POSITION_Z  EQU CUR_POSZ_L
DELTA_X                 EQU DELTA1_L
DELTA_Y         EQU DELTA2_L
DELTA_Z         EQU DELTA3_L
MAG_MIDPOINT    EQU MAG_MIDPOINT_L
ACCEL_DISTANCE  EQU ACCEL_DIST_L
DECEL_DISTANCE  EQU DECEL_DIST_L
FORWARD_LIMITX  EQU FXLIMIT_L
BACK_LIMITX             EQU BXLIMIT_L
FOWARD_LIMITY   EQU FYLIMIT_L
BACK_LIMITY             EQU BYLIMIT_L
FORWARD_LIMITZ  EQU FZLIMIT_L
BACK_LIMITZ             EQU BZLIMIT_L
X_OFFSET                EQU XOFFSET_L
Y_OFFSET                EQU YOFFSET_L
Z_OFFSET                EQU ZOFFSET_L
HOMERATE                EQU HOMERATE_L
FEEDRATE                EQU FEEDRATE_L
RAPIDRATE               EQU RAPIDRATE_L
JOGRATE                 EQU     JOGRATE_L
JOGSLOW                 EQU     JOGSLOW_L
X_PIXEL_INTERV  EQU     XPIX_UNIT
Y_PIXEL_INTERV  EQU YPIX_UNIT
MOTIONRATE              EQU MOTIONRATE_L
ACCELMOTION             EQU ACCELMOTION_L
A_ARG                   EQU A_ARG_L
B_ARG                   EQU B_ARG_L
DELTA1                  EQU DELTA1_L
DELTA2                  EQU DELTA2_L
EPS_ERR1                EQU     EPS_ERR1_L
EPS_ERR2                EQU EPS_ERR2_L
DELTA_ADJ               EQU     DELTA_ADJ_L
A_Arg                   EQU A_ARG_L
B_Arg                   EQU B_ARG_L
;Register flag bits
;MOTION STATE
#DEFINE XCW_DIR                 0       ;Signal to cause a left to right
motion
#DEFINE XDIR_STATE              1       ;Current x direction state
#DEFINE YCW_DIR                 2       ;Signal to cause a right to left
motion
#DEFINE YDIR_STATE              3       ;Current y direction state
#DEFINE ZCW_DIR                 4       ;Signal to cause a down motion
#DEFINE ZDIR_STATE              5       ;Current z direction state
#DEFINE TEST_LIMITS             6       ;Indicates where to test the
limits on each move.
#DEFINE USE_SOFT_LIMITS 7       ;Indicates to check soft limits on each
unit move.

;Acceleration flags
#DEFINE ACCEL_RAPID             0       ;Should we accelerate through
rapid move
#DEFINE ACCELERATE              1       ;Should we accelerate for feed
move
#DEFINE ACCELACTIVE             2       ;Is acceleration in progress
#DEFINE DECEL_RAPID             3       ;Should we decelerate through
rapid move
#DEFINE DECELERATE              4       ;Should we decelerate through
feed move
#DEFINE DECEL_ACTIVE    5       ;Is deceleration in progress
#DEFINE ACCEL_SKIP              6       ;Skip adjust every other clock
cycle.
;Flags1 register
#DEFINE DATA_AVAILABLE  7       ;Lets main application loop know that
data is available
#DEFINE FLG_MT_MAJOR    6       ;Indicates that the major axis is to
make a step on timer.
#DEFINE FLG_MT_MINOR1   5       ;Indicates that first minor axis is to
make a step on timer.
#DEFINE FLG_MT_MINOR2   4       ;Indicates that second minor axes is to
make a step on timer.
#DEFINE FLG_RUNNING             3       ;A job is currently running:
either from the host pc or handheld
#DEFINE FLG_SERIAL              2       ;Indicates a serial request
command.
#DEFINE FLG_SERIAL_EN   1       ;Serial device is enabled.
#DEFINE FLG_MODE                0       ;Device mode. 0=Vector,
1=Raster.

;Flags2 Register
#DEFINE FLG2_RSTR_DIR   0       ;Indicates during of current raster
operation 0=reverse, 1=forward
#DEFINE FLG2_RSTR_MT    1       ;Indicates that current motion is part
of raster operation
#DEFINE FLG2_RSTR_NEXT  2       ;Set this flag to indicate that raster
loop routine can read next line.
#DEFINE FLG2_TST_MID    3       ;Test for midpoint. Used to initial
decceleration.
#DEFINE FLG2_RST_RELOC  4       ;Indicates that the raster operation
must relocate for acceleration.
#DEFINE FLG2_RST_BILEV  5       ;Indicates that the raster data is
bi-level and byte packed.
#DEFINE FLG2_X                  6
#DEFINE FLG2_RECORD_LMT 7       ;This is used to indicate that the find
routine record position
                                                       ;insted of
loading positions.
;State_Reg flags
#DEFINE SREG_XSENSOR    0       ;0 = left 1 = right
#DEFINE SREG_YSENSOR    1       ;0 = front (y=0) 1 = back (y=table
depth)
#DEFINE SREG_ZSENSOR    2       ;0 = up 1 = down
#DEFINE SREG_1                  3
#DEFINE SREG_2                  4
#DEFINE SREG_3                  5
#DEFINE SREG_4                  6
#DEFINE SREG_5                  7
;Motion profile flags from command
#DEFINE FLG_XDIR                0       ;Indicates x direction request.
#DEFINE FLG_YDIR                2       ;Indicates y direction request.
#DEFINE FLG_ZDIR                4       ;Indicates z direction request.
#DEFINE FLG_XZERO               1       ;Indicates that x is not moved.
#DEFINE FLG_YZERO               3       ;Indicates that y is not moved.
#DEFINE FLG_ZZERO               5       ;Indicates that z is not moved.
#DEFINE FLG_MAJOR1              6       ;LSB Major axis.
#DEFINE FLG_MAJOR2              7       ;MSB Major axis.  01=X;10=Y;11=Z
#DEFINE FLG_CUT                 0       ;Laser is turned on for path.
#DEFINE FLG_ACCEL               1       ;Begin accelerate in this move.
#DEFINE FLG_DECCL               2       ;Begin deceleration in this
move.


;Register alias
#DEFINE IOPORT PORTD
#DEFINE CNTRL_PORT LATC
#DEFINE MOTION_PORT LATA
#DEFINE LIMIT_PORT  PORTB
;Individual bits
#DEFINE X_STEP  0
#DEFINE X_DIR   1
#DEFINE Y_STEP  2
#DEFINE Y_DIR   3
#DEFINE Z_STEP  4
#DEFINE Z_DIR   5
#DEFINE RD_WR   6
#DEFINE EMSTOP  0
#DEFINE LIMIT_ERR       1
#DEFINE DATA_AVAIL      2
#DEFINE X_BK_LMT        3
#DEFINE X_FW_LMT        4
#DEFINE Y_FW_LMT        5
#DEFINE Y_BK_LMT        6
#DEFINE Z_LMT           7
#DEFINE ADDR_INCR       0
#DEFINE LATCH_ALE       3
#DEFINE GOE                     4
#DEFINE DATA_ACK        5
#DEFINE ADDR_SEL1       0
#DEFINE ADDR_SEL2       1
#DEFINE ADDR_SEL3       2
;Output signals
#DEFINE OUT_AIR         0
#DEFINE OUT_CHILLER     1
#DEFINE OUT_VACCUM      2
#DEFINE OUT_MOTOREN     3
#DEFINE OUT_AUX1        4
#DEFINE OUT_AUX2        5
#DEFINE OUT_AUX3        6
#DEFINE OUT_AUX4        7
;Constants used for indicating the INC/DEC axis states.
#DEFINE MJ_DIR          0       ;Major axis
#DEFINE MN1_DIR         1       ;First minor axis
#DEFINE MN2_DIR         2       ;Second minor axis
;Constants for acceleration timer
#DEFINE TMR_ACCEL_30    .63035          ;Constant for a 500 usec timer
interval. Based on 30"/sec^2
#DEFINE TMR_ACCEL_RATE  .48                     ;Constant value to
addjust acceleration timer. 96
;EEProm data address.
#DEFINE EE_HOMEOFFSET 0x00
#DEFINE EE_PARKOFFSET 0x08
#DEFINE EE_CURPOSITION 0x10
#DEFINE EE_RAPIDSPEED  0x18
#DEFINE EE_HOMESPEED   0x1A
#DEFINE EE_MOTFLAGS        0X1C
#DEFINE EE_PULSEFRQ        0X1D
#DEFINE EE_TRICKELFRQ  0X1F
#DEFINE EE_MOTION_STATE 0X21    ;Here, we are only storing the XOR
values to determine true direction.
#DEFINE EE_ORIGIN_FROMHOME 0x22 ;Stores x and y poistion at home limits
from origin.
#DEFINE EE_STATE_REG    0X28
;Raster flags.
#DEFINE RASTER_NEXTBYTE 7
#DEFINE RASTER_STEP             6
ENDIF

{Original Message removed}

2003\04\18@182717 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Yes, I have also tried the following:
> USHARE
> FLAGS5 RES 1
>
> But it still does not show in the drop down in the watch window.  In
> MPLAB, the defined constants always showed up in the watch window.

In your code USHARE is just a label, but FLAGS5 represents a RAM location
and should definitely available in a watch window.  I'm using MPLAB
version 5.  Select any watch window and hit the INSERT key.  That brings
up a little window where you can enter a RAM location name or address.
FLAGS5 should be in there.  MPLAB has some bugs in how character case is
handled, so you have to enter FLAGS5 upper case, whether the code has case
sensitivity enabled or not.

If you continue to have problems, explain exactly what you are doing.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\18@183118 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Ok, I am using relocatable objects in my project.  In fact, my project
> has some 50 relocatable object files.  I have my variables declared in a
> single include file.

If you want global variables, it is better to define them with RES then
define them GLOBAL.

> The file is listed below.  I include this file in
> each asm file which makes up my application.  Also as can be seen, I use
> CBLOCK to define my variable registers.  However, the watch window
> simple does not show these labels in the symbol drop down box.

Right.  CBLOCK defines numeric constants.  It does not allocate RAM.  In
MPLAB version 5 at least, these won't show up in the watch window dialog.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\18@184750 by Andrew Warren

flavicon
face
Olin Lathrop <EraseMEPICLISTRemoveMEspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> > the watch window WILL show registers whose names are assigned
> > with EQU.
>
> Maybe that's a version 6 thing.  I just verified that symbols
> defined with EQU that have valid values for RAM addresses are
> definitely not available in the list of symbols to display in a
> watch window in version 5.

   Hmm... I'm using version 5.30.00, and it works fine there (and
   with every version prior to 5.30).

> > I see no compelling reason for anyone to switch from absolute
> > mode to relocatable just for the RES directive.
>
> There are lots of compelling reasons for relocatable mode.  I can
> see how some of the old timers may want to keep writing absolute
> code .... However, recommending absolute mode to newbies is just
> plain irresponsible.

   Note the careful phrasing: "SWITCH from absolute to relocatable
   JUST for res".  I wasn't suggesting that there's no reason to
   use relocatable mode, nor that I'd necessarily recommend absolute
   mode to a newbie.

   I don't know if I'd go as far as to call it irresponsible, but I
   do agree that it'd be a disservice to that person not to explain
   the advantages of relocatable over absolute mode.  Where we
   disagree, I think, is in our opinion of whether it's a good idea
   to also explain the advantages of absolute mode.

   And, now that I think about it, we also disagree on the
   IMPORTANCE of the difference; you think it's a huge deal, and I
   don't think it makes all that much difference.  That's just a
   philosophical thing, of course, and I feel as strongly about some
   other aspects of programming style as you do about this one.

> Now c'mon Andy, you know all this.  This is right out of
> Introduction to Software 101.

   Actually, I'd like relocatable mode more if its "typing" were
   MORE strictly enforced.  If there were an assembler warning on
   every register-based instruction whose operand hadn't been
   defined by RES, I'd feel that RES was actually doing something
   SIGNIFICANTLY better than CBLOCK.

   Does MPASM already do that?

> You clearly like to find faults with my posts whenever you can

   Given your own penchant for public fault-finding, I'm certain
   you're not complaining... But just in case you ARE a little
   sensitive about it, consider this:  It wouldn't be any fun if it
   were easy.

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- RemoveMEaiwspamspamEraseMEcypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\04\18@194457 by Igor Pokorny

flavicon
face
Guys, I read your discussion with a sad amusement... I have had an
oportunity to do some big projects with 20 more programmers for past 30
years. I do know every programmer has his/her own style and there is no way
how to change this. Olin, you told me lately the Microchip's assembler is
the worst you have seen. What the heck you are talking about? If I weren't
been lazy and old, I would write a assembler by the modern way....
{something in a style of PHP)... There wouldn't be any definition of
variables and you loose the reason to discuss if it's better to use RES or
CBLOCK

BTW ... I use assembler parts when there is a problem with timing only. The
C is a solution.

Regards

Igor




{Original Message removed}

2003\04\19@050158 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>That does work with 6.0.20.0 and I've used it to jump to a position
>in the list where there might be variables with similar names, eg
>result1, result2, result3 etc. What I was hoping for was a bigger

You can name all your variables with a prefix (Fresult1 Fresult2, ... is
what I use). Then they appear grouped in a listing. Same for bits (Bthis,
Bthat).

Peter

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\04\19@080042 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
>> Maybe that's a version 6 thing.  I just verified that symbols
>> defined with EQU that have valid values for RAM addresses are
>> definitely not available in the list of symbols to display in a
>> watch window in version 5.
>
>     Hmm... I'm using version 5.30.00, and it works fine there (and
>     with every version prior to 5.30).

Now I'm really confused what you are seeing.  I've seen the same symptom
in MPLAB ever since I started programming PICs over 3 years ago.  Here's
exactly what I do:  Click on an existing watch window.  Hit INSERT.  That
pops up a small window called "Add Watch Symbol".  At the top it has a
line for typing in the new symbol name.  Below that is the list of
available symbols in a scroll window, and 5 buttons to the right.  I see
only symbols defined with RES, not with EQU.  Even if I try to type the
name of an EQU symbol, I get an error message about the symbol not being
found.  By the way, the symbol name needs to be typed in upper case, even
if it is shown in lower case in the scroll window.

Maybe this is an absolute versus relative mode thing.  The RES directive
is not available in absolute mode, so perhaps MPLAB gives up there and
shows all symbols.  In relocatable mode is knows which one represent RAM
locations, and only shows those?


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\04\19@080700 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Olin, you told me lately the Microchip's
> assembler is the worst you have seen.

I wasn't referring to MPASM as a whole.  I have definitely seen worse.  If
I remember right, the comment pertained to MPASM's macro capabilities.
These are indeed quite primitive.

> What the heck you are talking
> about? If I weren't been lazy and old, I would write a assembler by the
> modern way.... {something in a style of PHP)... There wouldn't be any
> definition of variables and you loose the reason to discuss if it's
> better to use RES or CBLOCK

And your point is...?

> BTW ... I use assembler parts when there is a problem with timing only.
> The C is a solution.

Let's not start that jihad *again*.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\04\22@003108 by Charles Craft

picon face
I'm late to the party but no one else mentioned it. :-)

I don't have the original post so not sure if the "include everything in the post and nothing on the subject line" rule was followed but how did these two get off on a 5.x tangent when the OP was talking about version 6.x ??????   ;-)

bubba


--{Original Message removed}


'[OT] House "names" (Was: Re: [EE]: My first PCB)'
2003\06\12@194107 by Marc Nicholas
flavicon
face
On 12/6/03 18:42, "Olin Lathrop" <STOPspamolin_piclist.....spamEMBEDINC.COM> wrote:

> You've got it the easy way around.  It can be rather confusing for us
> simpleton americans when watching BBC programs where the place names sound
> like meaninful words.  I guess you have to know the magic list of
> keywords, because it's hard to spot them from syntax sometimes.  Maybe I'm
> just slow, but it took me a while to get used to Midsummer Worthy being a
> place name.  Then there are names like Muddy Field Over Hill Behind
> Woodshed Upon Thames, and houses apparently have names too (and are valid
> mail addresses ?) but often not something obvious like <blah blah> House.

My old address in the UK was:

Ham Cottage
EX13 7HL

That's all I needed to get my mail. And we got mail not once, but twice a
day if necessary. And a First Class letter posted in the other side of the
country would generally arrive next day. The Royal Mail was actually pretty
slick in many ways...not sure what it's like these days ;-)

Where I live in Toronto, they won't even bother trying to deliver parcels to
me...the lazy-ass mail staff just drop it off at the local post office and
send me a postcard telling me to go pick it up. This adds an additional
couple of days on the delivery times...infact, I got the postcard *AFTER*
I'd recued a package the other day (the originator had sent me a tracking #,
so I knew it was at the post office).

</soapbox>


-marc

--------------------------------------------------
Marc Nicholas Geekythings Inc. C/416.543.4896
UNIX, Database, Security and Networking Consulting

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\06\12@200206 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
> My old address in the UK was:
>
> Ham Cottage
> EX13 7HL
>
> That's all I needed to get my mail. And we got mail not once, but twice a
> day if necessary. And a First Class letter posted in the other side of the
> country would generally arrive next day. The Royal Mail was
> actually pretty
> slick in many ways...not sure what it's like these days ;-)

       Their "secret" underground subway is the coolest part of their system if
you ask me, too bad they're getting rid of it.

> Where I live in Toronto, they won't even bother trying to deliver
> parcels to
> me...the lazy-ass mail staff just drop it off at the local post office and
> send me a postcard telling me to go pick it up. This adds an additional
> couple of days on the delivery times...infact, I got the postcard *AFTER*
> I'd recued a package the other day (the originator had sent me a
> tracking #,
> so I knew it was at the post office).

       Mail here has been getting worse, the latest carrier we had delivered more
INCORRECT mail then correct mail, and you're right, they don't even bother
coming to the door with your package anymore. TTYL

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\06\12@201253 by Michael Davidson

flavicon
face
>        Mail here has been getting worse, the latest carrier we had
delivered
>more
>INCORRECT mail then correct mail, and you're right, they don't even bother
>coming to the door with your package anymore. TTYL

Australia Post is pretty good. I can order something from Dontronics and have
it here in 2 days with normal post. Stuff from America will generally take
about 6 days, same as for Germany. Getting stuff from the UK though... ung!
It'll cost you an arm and a leg and you could likely make whatever it is you
are getting mailed quicker than it'll arrive ;) (About 2 or 3 weeks)


--

Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
different speeds.  A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.
               -- Clive James

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2003 , 2004 only
- Today
- New search...