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'Emedded + CD-ROM [OT]'
1999\05\21@171724 by paulb

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Harold Hallikainen wrote:

> Moving a bit off topic...  I've noticed the price of CD jukeboxes
> is quite low, while the cost of CD-ROM jukeboxes is quite high.
> Anyone have any ideas about a conversion of an audio jukebox to data?

 That made me smile.  Would you *really* want a single-speed CD-ROM
drive again, even if cheap?

 Discussion I had with someone the other day who was considering a CD
jukebox.  A 6 GB HDD, which is equivalent to a 10-disc 100X jukebox, is
also quite cheap at present.  Hmmm.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\05\21@195921 by Harold Hallikainen

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On Sat, 22 May 1999 07:16:53 +1000 "Paul B. Webster VK2BZC"
<spam_OUTpaulbTakeThisOuTspammidcoast.com.au> writes:
>Harold Hallikainen wrote:
>
>> Moving a bit off topic...  I've noticed the price of CD jukeboxes
>> is quite low, while the cost of CD-ROM jukeboxes is quite high.
>> Anyone have any ideas about a conversion of an audio jukebox to
>data?
>
>  That made me smile.  Would you *really* want a single-speed CD-ROM
>drive again, even if cheap?
>
>  Discussion I had with someone the other day who was considering a CD
>jukebox.  A 6 GB HDD, which is equivalent to a 10-disc 100X jukebox,
>is
>also quite cheap at present.  Hmmm.
>--


       I am just kinda interested in the idea of having applications
"run" from a CD ROM jukebox on the network with a local hard drive
serving as a cache.  When we want to run an application, the local cache
is checked.  If the program is there, we run it from there.  If not, we
go to the juke box.  When it's time to do a program upgrade, we swap the
CD ROM and flush the cache.
       Probably not very practical... but an interesting idea... and way
off topic!

Harold



Harold Hallikainen
.....haroldKILLspamspam@spam@hallikainen.com
Hallikainen & Friends, Inc.
See the FCC Rules at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules and comments filed
in LPFM proceeding at http://hallikainen.com/lpfm


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1999\05\22@024334 by Eric Smith

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Paul wrote:
>   Discussion I had with someone the other day who was considering a CD
> jukebox.  A 6 GB HDD, which is equivalent to a 10-disc 100X jukebox, is
> also quite cheap at present.  Hmmm.

In fact, I just bought an IBM 22G 7200 RPM IDE drive for $419 a week ago.
With no compression, that's about 28 discs at 148x peak (not sure about
average).  Now use MPEG 2 Layer 3 audio, and you have the equivalent of
about 336 discs at >1700x peak.

If capacity is more important to you than performance, the IBM 25G 5400 RPM
drive is available for about the same price.

I plan to put one of these in my car as part of a Linux-based sound system.
Anyone have good ideas about shock-mounting?  :-)

Naturally I'll use a pair of PICs in the remote control system.

1999\05\22@104642 by Eric Aos

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>         I am just kinda interested in the idea of having applications
> "run" from a CD ROM jukebox on the network with a local hard drive
> serving as a cache.  When we want to run an application, the
> local cache
> is checked.  If the program is there, we run it from there.
> If not, we
> go to the juke box.  When it's time to do a program upgrade,
> we swap the
> CD ROM and flush the cache.
>         Probably not very practical... but an interesting
> idea... and way
> off topic!
>
> Harold
>


Boy this hits home... It's not even 8:00AM on Saturday, and I'm at work
removing 2 CD Jukeboxes from our Network... They were a great deal when
we bought them a couple of years ago. But I just went out, and got a 17
Gig IDE HDD for around $200 (cheaper than the last maintenance on a Juke
Box). I'm in the middle of transferring all 14 CD's to the HDD right
now.

Eric

1999\05\22@110519 by Eric Oliver

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>
> I plan to put one of these in my car as part of a Linux-based sound system.
> Anyone have good ideas about shock-mounting?  :-)
>

Now that's a neat project !

1999\05\22@120234 by Bob Blick

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At 06:42 AM 5/22/99 -0000, you wrote:
>In fact, I just bought an IBM 22G 7200 RPM IDE drive for $419 a week ago.
>I plan to put one of these in my car as part of a Linux-based sound system.
>Anyone have good ideas about shock-mounting?  :-)

Hi Eric,

I've had one in my car for 7 months now. I squeezed all the boards and the
drive into as small a box as I could, and put it under the passenger seat
in my car. The padded carpet is all the shock-mounting it gets. I don't
think it's a problem. The drive is a 3.5 gig Maxtor, but I got a new 17
gig(also Maxtor) that I'll put in the next one. Different drive
manufacturers have different specs regarding operating shock and vibration.
IBM and Maxtor seem to have the highest ratings. This drive has never
glitched. I don't know how temperature would affect it - it's fairly
temperate where I am. I imagine freezing temperatures could be a problem. I
also went with a slower(5400 rpm) drive because it is quieter.

>Naturally I'll use a pair of PICs in the remote control system.

I still haven't finished my remote control - currently using a Tandy model
102 :-(

http://www.bobblick.com/bob/projects/yamm/index.html if you want to take a
look.

Cheers,
Bob

1999\05\22@211422 by Byron A Jeff

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>
> At 06:42 AM 5/22/99 -0000, you wrote:
> >In fact, I just bought an IBM 22G 7200 RPM IDE drive for $419 a week ago.
> >I plan to put one of these in my car as part of a Linux-based sound system.
> >Anyone have good ideas about shock-mounting?  :-)
>
> Hi Eric,
>
> I've had one in my car for 7 months now. I squeezed all the boards and the
> drive into as small a box as I could, and put it under the passenger seat
> in my car. The padded carpet is all the shock-mounting it gets. I don't
> think it's a problem. The drive is a 3.5 gig Maxtor, but I got a new 17
> gig(also Maxtor) that I'll put in the next one. Different drive
> manufacturers have different specs regarding operating shock and vibration.
> IBM and Maxtor seem to have the highest ratings. This drive has never
> glitched. I don't know how temperature would affect it - it's fairly
> temperate where I am. I imagine freezing temperatures could be a problem. I
> also went with a slower(5400 rpm) drive because it is quieter.

Bob I'm pulling up your page now but wanted to ask about the power supply.
Are you using an inverter to a normal PC power supply or did you work
out a direct DC-DC converter?

I'm planning on prototyping with a home box which of course can be run
directly off 120VAC. But I'm thinking ahead to the car box too.

BAJ

1999\05\22@230301 by Bob Blick

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At 02:41 PM 5/22/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Bob I'm pulling up your page now but wanted to ask about the power supply.
>Are you using an inverter to a normal PC power supply or did you work
>out a direct DC-DC converter?

Hi Byron,

It's a DC-DC converter I made myself. Nominal 12 volts in. +5, +12, and -12
out, as well as PowerGood signal. It'll run the machine with as little as 8
volts in, so I have it set up to power up as soon as I hit "door unlock" on
my key fob, so it's booting as I start the car.

It's fairly low-tech by today's standards. I wound the transformer on a
molybdenum permalloy toroidal core because I didn't want to do much
trial-and-error and those cores are way more forgiving than ferrite pot
cores. Toroids also have a very contained field and I've been using these
from Arnold Engineering since the 1970's. I forget what frequency it runs
at, pretty low, probably 30KHz. It's very efficient, though. It draws
between 2 amps and 3 amps depending on cpu and disk load. 4 amps at spin-up.

Cheers,
Bob

1999\05\23@032808 by Lynx {Glenn Jones}

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Do you have any problems with ignition or other noise on the power supply?

>
> It's a DC-DC converter I made myself. Nominal 12 volts in. +5, +12, and -12
> out, as well as PowerGood signal. It'll run the machine with as little as 8
> volts in, so I have it set up to power up as soon as I hit "door unlock" on
> my key fob, so it's booting as I start the car.
>
> It's fairly low-tech by today's standards. I wound the transformer on a
> molybdenum permalloy toroidal core because I didn't want to do much
> trial-and-error and those cores are way more forgiving than ferrite pot
> cores. Toroids also have a very contained field and I've been using these
> from Arnold Engineering since the 1970's. I forget what frequency it runs
> at, pretty low, probably 30KHz. It's very efficient, though. It draws
> between 2 amps and 3 amps depending on cpu and disk load. 4 amps at spin-up.
>
> Cheers,
> Bob
>

1999\05\23@084145 by ryan pogge

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> Do you have any problems with ignition or other noise on the power
supply?

if you do all you should have to do is ground the power
supply to the frame of the car.  That should eliminate all noise.
you may also try a ground loop isolation filter on the audio output,
but that won't work perfectly, I would just go ahead and
ground the PSU to the chasis.
Regards,
Ryan

1999\05\23@125838 by Bob Blick

face
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At 12:27 AM 5/23/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Do you have any problems with ignition or other noise on the power supply?
>
>>
>> It's a DC-DC converter I made myself. Nominal 12 volts in. +5, +12, and -12

No, it's dead quiet through the stereo. There was a little RF coming from
the power input and audio output cables, but it wasn't power supply
frequency, it was from the motherboard. I threaded the two cables each
through fat ferrite beads and that cleared up the (minor)FM interference.
That kind of stuff is to be expected using a computer.

The car stereo had an aux input, and it has balanced inputs, so there were
no ground loops to speak of.

Cheers,
Bob

1999\05\23@151320 by ranguelo

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Eric Oliver wrote:
>
> >
> > I plan to put one of these in my car as part of a Linux-based sound system.
> > Anyone have good ideas about shock-mounting?  :-)
> >
>
> Now that's a neat project !

Sounds great !

Maybe a laptop HDD can handle the shocks better ? But it isn't that
cheap  :-(

And another crazy idea :

If you build two wireless ethernet cards into the linux box and in your
home PC
you would be able to download the mp3 file directly to your car.

St.

1999\05\24@002028 by Eric Smith

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Stefan writes:
> If you build two wireless ethernet cards into the linux box and in your
> home PC you would be able to download the mp3 file directly to your car.

Yes, that was part of the plan too.  :-)

I intended to keep a copies (on hard drives) of my entire music library in
my car, at home (possibly in two locations), and at work.

Also, I've built a thing to extract the MPEG audio from the Music Choice
channels on DSS.  It's not layer 3, though, so it's not as compact.

I'm planning to use the PIC16F877 with a 4x20 character LCD (or possibly
VFD) as the controller for each system.  For the car, I'm thinking about
using a pair of RS-422 links, one in each direction, for communication
between the remote control and the Linux box.

In fact, I might have a remote control for the remote control :-)  For the
car I'll probably try to mount the display and such in a DIN-sized box in
the dash, and use another PIC (probably a 16F84) to make an IR remote for
that.

1999\05\24@004601 by Tjaart van der Walt

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Eric Smith wrote:
>
>
> I'm planning to use the PIC16F877 with a 4x20 character LCD (or possibly
> VFD) as the controller for each system.  For the car, I'm thinking about
> using a pair of RS-422 links, one in each direction, for communication
> between the remote control and the Linux box.
>
> In fact, I might have a remote control for the remote control :-)  For the
> car I'll probably try to mount the display and such in a DIN-sized box in
> the dash, and use another PIC (probably a 16F84) to make an IR remote for
> that.

Most new car radio/tape systems are CD-shuttle ready. They have
some sort of a bus system between the shuttle and the radio/tape
to control the CD shuttle.

If your protocol can take advantage of this, you only need a LCD
to display the ASCII data - the controls are already there.

Does anyone know where one can get the protocol specs for the
different manufacturers? I've got a Grundig, and would like to
avoid home-made looking boxes, so I'd be interested in the
protocol myself.

--
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1999\05\24@032419 by Graeme Smith

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GRAEME SMITH                         email: .....grysmithKILLspamspam.....freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
YMCA Edmonton

Address has changed with little warning!
(I moved across the hall! :) )

Email will remain constant... at least for now.


On Fri, 21 May 1999, Harold Hallikainen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

YAAASSSS.... well, you know the reason I like CDROM???

Have you ever tried to infect a CDROM that was write-once or read-only
with a virus? You only get one shot, when it is programmed the first time.

Most CDROM readers can't even program it THAT time. So, if you use a
READ-ONLY DATA ROM, you can be sure that the same data is going to be
sent, every time it is accessed, (Pending a scratch or two or three).

The WHOLE IDEA of CDROM, is to have a READ-ONLY software source.

Personally I use it for BACKUP's of sensitive data, freeing my HARD DRIVE
for more volatile pursuits.

After all, a CD stored properly will last for 10 to 20 years without
noticeable degradation of data.... beats the old tape drive every time.

                               GREY

1999\05\24@120819 by William Chops Westfield

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You'd think that someone would have written a driver that looked like a CDROM
for a hard disk by now (complete with special copy utility for loading from
a real CD.)  That'd solve the RO issue, as well as tricking those
applications that really wanted to find a CD drive with THEIR disk enclosed.

BillW

1999\05\24@134633 by Paul Davis

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They have :) And in more than one way. However if you are thinking of
something that operates such that it treats the whole drive like a CD-ROM
drive, I havent seen that.

There are products that range from simple things that fool mscdex.exe (like
fakecd) to more sophisticated things like 'Virtual CD' from Logicraft.
(Which has worked for every CD I've ever tried, inluding copy protection
checks.) There are ways to mount ISO CD-ROM images in Windows (like
WinImage) and GNU/Linux (available for some time now).

Unfortunately, none of these are really applicable to the PIC platform as
they are written for use at a much higher level. I understand there's a
port of GNU/Linux underway for the StrongARM. Still not a PIC though :)

Paul

At 09:08 AM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote:
>You'd think that someone would have written a driver that looked like a CDROM
>for a hard disk by now (complete with special copy utility for loading from
>a real CD.)  That'd solve the RO issue, as well as tricking those
>applications that really wanted to find a CD drive with THEIR disk enclosed.
>
>BillW

Paul Davis
Sr. Systems Engineer
OEM, Carrier Sales, Healthcare
pdavisspamspam_OUTnbase-xyplex.com
http://www.nbase-xyplex.com
184 Shuman Blvd., Suite 200
Naperville, IL. 60563
Phone: 630-717-2960 x 3072
FAX: 630-357-4237

1999\05\25@190947 by Stuart O'Reilly

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Does anyone know of an activeX control available as freeware (or cheap) that
will allow me to do something similar under visual basic (my programing
experience doesn't go as far as Linux yet). The only ones I've seen so far
cost $200 US.
Regards
Stuart
P.S. I intend to control the system from a pic to.

Eric Smith wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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