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'Cockroach Detection and Y2K bugs.'
1999\01\03@033355 by Don McKenzie

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Andy Kunz wrote:
>
> >  How do they know to eat the boric acid powder then?
>
> No need to eat it.  It is one of few things which goes _through_ their
> shell.  Kills them by contact.

Having followed this (now silly) thread for a while, do these things
know about
the Y2K bug? This would have to be a calculated factor in any detection
system surely!

You notice how 1999 just seems to hang there, almost like an odometer
about to click just one more time.
Wait for it. :-)

Don McKenzie  spam_OUTdonTakeThisOuTspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html

1999\01\03@040301 by g.daniel.invent.design

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Don McKenzie wrote:
<cut>
> Having followed this (now silly) thread for a while, do these things
> know about
> the Y2K bug?

continuing your (now 2silly) thread:

Only the ones with A.D.D. are concerned, some dream of being the Y2K
bug, and all the rest are already worshiping it as the Grand Bug or
debating the theological superiority of Bed Bugs Versus the Y2K Bug.

>
> Don McKenzie  .....donKILLspamspam@spam@dontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com
>
> Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
> Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html

--
Steam engines may be out of fashion, but when you consider that an
internal combustion engine would require recovery of waste heat by
transfer just before top dead centre then fashion becomes rather
redundant, USE STRATIFIED HEAT EXCHANGERS ! and external combustion.

You heard it first from: Graham Daniel, managing director of Electronic
Product Enhancements.
Phone NZ 04 387 4347, Fax NZ 04 3874348, Cellular NZ 021 954 196.

1999\01\03@074345 by Andy Kunz

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>Having followed this (now silly) thread for a while, do these things
>know about
>the Y2K bug? This would have to be a calculated factor in any detection
>system surely!

Surely you haven't been following MY posts.  I was serious.  Boric acid
powder is what "Roach Prufe" is all about.  It kills them by exposure.  No
need to bait them.

>You notice how 1999 just seems to hang there, almost like an odometer
>about to click just one more time.
>Wait for it. :-)

Embedded Systems Programming had a GREAT editorial on that in the latest
issue, probably online by now.  Check it out!

Andy

==================================================================
 Andy Kunz - Montana Design - http://www.users.fast.net/~montana
==================================================================

1999\01\03@225819 by Gavin Jackson

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Boric acid is correct. All you need to do is sprinkle it where
the cockroaches are going to be walking. When they walk
over the stuff it sticks to their antennae and when they clean
themselves they ingest the boric acid and die.

Regards

Nature lover!

{Original Message removed}

1999\01\03@225838 by paulb
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Andy Kunz wrote:

> Surely you haven't been following MY posts.  I was serious.  Boric
> acid powder is what "Roach Prufe" is all about.  It kills them by
> exposure.  No need to bait them.

 I for one have no doubts that you were.  I was merely querying the
actual modus operandii, or in fact the mode of administration.  How do
you get them to run through it if it doesn't actually attract them?

 Presumably you have to lay it down in their places of aggregation.
Now, one of those here is the top edge of the dishwasher door, and
that's really not a convenient place to lay a trail of powder.  Sure,
under the cupboards and the fridge.  But, there's another problem.  The
fridge is one of these modern fan-forced ones (internal *and* external
fans).  Powder floating everywhere?

 Now back in the *old* days, they didn't have dishwashers (but I'll
bet *you* have, or have you trained those kids well?) or fridges with
fans.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\01\04@014950 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <3.0.1.32.19990103070902.0068dba4spamKILLspampop.fast.net>, Andy Kunz
<.....mtdesignKILLspamspam.....FAST.NET> writes
>>Having followed this (now silly) thread for a while, do these things
>>know about
>>the Y2K bug? This would have to be a calculated factor in any detection
>>system surely!
>
>Surely you haven't been following MY posts.  I was serious.  Boric acid
>powder is what "Roach Prufe" is all about.  It kills them by exposure.  No
>need to bait them.
>
>>You notice how 1999 just seems to hang there, almost like an odometer
>>about to click just one more time.
>>Wait for it. :-)
>
>Embedded Systems Programming had a GREAT editorial on that in the latest
>issue, probably online by now.  Check it out!

I had a wonderful phone conversation with a guy the other day, he was
worried that his washing machine would explode on Jan 1st 2000 - I asked
him about the machine, and it turned out it was just a model with a
motorized sequencer - no electronics at all! :-).

BTW, I don't repair washing machines - but for some reason they put all
the 'nutters' through to me!.
--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : EraseMEnigelgspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTlpilsley.demon.co.uk     |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk |
       | Chesterfield    | Official site for Shin Ki Ju Jitsu         |
       | England         |                                            |
       \--------------------------------------------------------------/

1999\01\04@103151 by tmariner

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Hello Nigel
>
> I had a wonderful phone conversation with a guy the other day, he was
> worried that his washing machine would explode on Jan 1st
> 2000 - I asked
> him about the machine, and it turned out it was just a model with a
> motorized sequencer - no electronics at all! :-).
>
>

A friend who owns a firm consulting in hospitality technology asked me to
look at a embedded systems in a hotel last week for "Y2K compliance" and I
came away with the impression that indeed there were some systems
(elevators, security, etc.) that had some Y2K exposure. My first impression
,however, was that the consequences would be rather slight.

Two days ago on New Years Day I set my six-months-old VCR to tape the New
Years Eve concert from Vienna. When I got off the Internet in the middle of
the concert I noticed that the tape had not begun to record! It turns out
that there was no 1/1/99 in the date control chip in this volume VCR! the
date would progress from 12/31/98 to 1/1/00 to 1/2/99 upon up and down date
commands!!

Maybe I'll rethink my cynical attitude about no measurable evil coming from
bogus dates.

Point well taken about the washing machines however -- The folks I was with
in the hotel pointed at A/D chips and toally ignored the fact that a
microcontroller that controlled time of day / time of week HVAC sat a board
away.

Tom

1999\01\04@115533 by David W. Duley

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In a message dated 1/4/99 7:32:30 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tmarinerspamspam_OUTOPTONLINE.NET writes:

<<
Two days ago on New Years Day I set my six-months-old VCR to tape the New
Years Eve concert from Vienna. When I got off the Internet in the middle of
the concert I noticed that the tape had not begun to record! It turns out
that there was no 1/1/99 in the date control chip in this volume VCR! the
date would progress from 12/31/98 to 1/1/00 to 1/2/99 upon up and down date
commands!!

Maybe I'll rethink my cynical attitude about no measurable evil coming from
bogus dates.

Point well taken about the washing machines however -- The folks I was with
in the hotel pointed at A/D chips and toally ignored the fact that a
microcontroller that controlled time of day / time of week HVAC sat a board
away.

Tom

 >>

Hi Tom,
I don't think your VCR problem is a Y2K problem,  It just sounds like a bug.
I have a Fax machine that I couldn't set to 1996.  During that year the fax
machine had to stay on 1995.  If I set it to 1996 it would revert to 1984 or
some such.

I just had this conversation with my brother yesterday.  The hospital where he
works is all excited (almost panic stricken) about the mythical Y2K problems.
He says that alot of people are starting to hoard food, water and fire arms.
I personally, am more concerned about the Champagne shortage that will arrive
on the next new years eve!
There will be problems, but most will be mild.  Environmental systems might
not turn on that day because the computers that control them will think its
saturday and nobody is working.  A simple white lie told to the controllers
will fix that.  I think 1974 has the same date structure as 1900 :)
Other than that some people might not get checks in the mail because some
perpetual calendar program computes their age at -45 and doesn't think they
should get their Social Security check.
Why would an elavator care what day it is???
Maybe I'll carry a few cans of spam just in case!

Dave Duley

1999\01\05@015122 by Nigel Goodwin

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picon face
In message <001101be37f5$aeaad8e0$@spam@253fcea7KILLspamspamtommarin.optonline.net>,
tmariner <KILLspamtmarinerKILLspamspamOPTONLINE.NET> writes
>Two days ago on New Years Day I set my six-months-old VCR to tape the New
>Years Eve concert from Vienna. When I got off the Internet in the middle of
>the concert I noticed that the tape had not begun to record! It turns out
>that there was no 1/1/99 in the date control chip in this volume VCR! the
>date would progress from 12/31/98 to 1/1/00 to 1/2/99 upon up and down date
>commands!!

Nasty :-). What make VCR was it?, if you were in the UK you would have
the right to have your money refunded (assuming you didn't want the
VCR), as it's 'not fit for the purpose for which it was purchased'. Does
a similar customer 'right' apply in the States as well?.
--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : RemoveMEnigelgTakeThisOuTspamlpilsley.demon.co.uk     |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk |
       | Chesterfield    | Official site for Shin Ki Ju Jitsu         |
       | England         |                                            |
       \--------------------------------------------------------------/

1999\01\05@091537 by lilel

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"David W. Duley sez
> I just had this conversation with my brother yesterday.  The
> hospital where he works is all excited (almost panic stricken) about
> the mythical Y2K problems. He says that alot of people are starting
> to hoard food, water and fire arms.


I am really enjoying watching all the panic.  If you crack open a
history book, you'll find a similar phenomenon in the year 999.
Peaople all thought the world would end.  Odd that Christians are so
egocentric to think the entire world will end (switch year
case 1000, case  2000)   years after the birth +/- 2 or three years
of a jewish carpenter.


-- Lawrence Lile

=> Median Filter Source Code
=> AutoCad blocks for electrical drafting
=> Brownout tester plans
=> Amateurish pictures of my family

at:  http://home1.gte.net/llile/index.htm

1999\01\05@102745 by Andy Kunz

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>Peaople all thought the world would end.  Odd that Christians are so
>egocentric to think the entire world will end (switch year
>case 1000, case  2000)   years after the birth +/- 2 or three years
>of a jewish carpenter.

It isn't a "Christian" thing, Lyle.  It's around the world.  And it isn't
the end of the world, more likely the end of their old computers!

Our county gov't used it as an excuse to upgrade all machines and software
to "Y2K Compliant" systems.  That means that the 286's they've been running
will be replaced with Win98 systems.

They did a good job, though - only $4,000,000 to do all systems.

I don't know which bug is worse - Y2K or W98?!?!

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1999\01\05@122713 by David W. Duley

picon face
In a message dated 1/5/99 6:15:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
spamBeGonelilelspamBeGonespamtoastmaster.com writes:

<<

I am really enjoying watching all the panic.  If you crack open a
history book, you'll find a similar phenomenon in the year 999.
Peaople all thought the world would end.  Odd that Christians are so
egocentric to think the entire world will end (switch year
case 1000, case  2000)   years after the birth +/- 2 or three years
of a jewish carpenter.


-- Lawrence Lile
 >>
Hi Lawrence!
I wonder if their abacases required Y1k Compliance certificates?
Maybe they will turn over one of the stones in  Stonehenge and find carved
"Y1K Ready" :)

Dave Duley

1999\01\05@135317 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, David W. Duley wrote:

> In a message dated 1/4/99 7:32:30 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> TakeThisOuTtmarinerEraseMEspamspam_OUTOPTONLINE.NET writes:
>
>  Maybe I'll rethink my cynical attitude about no measurable evil coming from
>  bogus dates.

Uh-uh. Did you ever try to cash a cheque (international money order) that
was due more than 6 months ago ? I did. Guess what I found out.

> There will be problems, but most will be mild.  Environmental systems might
> not turn on that day because the computers that control them will think its
> saturday and nobody is working.  A simple white lie told to the controllers
> will fix that.  I think 1974 has the same date structure as 1900 :)

imho simple white lies sometimes stick... permanently. See below ;)

> Why would an elavator care what day it is???

 Elevators in large buildings lurk on certain floors depending on the
time of day, and the day of the week. A message in Usenet described a guy
who set the clocks of the elevators in a famous NY building to Y2K, during
a test. The elevators promptly went to the lowest basement and froze dead.
Then, he tried to reset the date, and could not. He had to get some new
controllers for them. The story seems strange BUT an EEPROM based
controller that stores logs of travel etc etc COULD decide that all the
systems have expired their TBOs and that it won't kill anyone by operating
any further. So I believe it until proven otherwise. Me, you won't catch
in an elevator on Y2K. Nor on the phone. I can do without explaining a 100
year long phone call.

Peter

1999\01\05@191907 by WIL REEDER

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And just what do you think caused the dark ages????


Wil Reeder
RemoveMEteachtechspamTakeThisOuTbc.sympatico.ca
Vancouver,Canada
Faster horses, younger women, older wiskey, and more money!

----------
{Quote hidden}

carved
> "Y1K Ready" :)
>
> Dave Duley

1999\01\06@070012 by Martin McCormick

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       I have a 386 system that is definitely not Y2k compliant.
When set to just before Midnight of 1999, it rolls over to Friday
January 4, 1980.  It seems that all you have to do to get around this
is force it to January of 2000 and it appears to pick up nicely from
there.  I set it to February 28 of 2000 and it rolled over to February
29.  DOS files created under these conditions show the correct date
and the computer booted successfully after having been set to the new
date so the CMOS timer obviously has the bits to handle the date.
The bug is probably in the BIOS and, once you get past the roll over,
will not be a problem.

       One of the more intelligent reports on Y2K was recently on CNN
and suggested that if one has a VCR which uses the year and does not
work correctly on the roll over, to try to set it to January 1 of 1972.
This is a leap year that starts on a Saturday which gives you 28 more
years of trouble-free service from your VCR.:-)

Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK
OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Data Communications Group

1999\01\06@072023 by g.daniel.invent.design

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As an ex elevator maintainence electrician, I can't resist replying to
this one:
The problem would seem most likely to be a real time clock chip that
gave results that crashed a poorly written program. The technician most
likely did not know to find the battery/ supercap supplying the chip.
Another posibility is that the realtime clock chip was reset, but the
halt bit was in halt mode and required a factory or service tool to
change to run mode (this could be deliberate.)
Of course the software may have been written as a parting gift by a
disgruntled former software writer.
Elevator service is a competitive field, and when the competition gets a
service contract for your own O.E.M equipment, there can be interesting
suprises.
regards,
Graham Daniel.

{Quote hidden}

--
Steam engines may be out of fashion, but when you consider that an
internal combustion engine would require recovery of waste heat by
transfer just before top dead centre then fashion becomes rather
redundant, USE STRATIFIED HEAT EXCHANGERS ! and external combustion.

You heard it first from: Graham Daniel, managing director of Electronic
Product Enhancements.
Phone NZ 04 387 4347, Fax NZ 04 3874348, Cellular NZ 021 954 196.

1999\01\06@092103 by tmariner

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> > Nasty :-). What make VCR was it?

JVC A54.

, if you were in the UK you would have
> the right to have your money refunded (assuming you didn't want the
> VCR), as it's 'not fit for the purpose for which it was
> purchased'. Does
> a similar customer 'right' apply in the States as well?.

Don't know.

Tom

1999\01\06@094759 by tmariner

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Hello Dave,

> Hi Tom,
> I don't think your VCR problem is a Y2K problem,  It just
> sounds like a bug.
> I have a Fax machine that I couldn't set to 1996.  During
> that year the fax
> machine had to stay on 1995.  If I set it to 1996 it would
> revert to 1984 or
> some such.

Now you're getting to the panic vs. reality! -- All of us who develop
embedded products know that other sorts of program boo-boo's will cause far
more harm than all the 1/1/2000 problems combined. When was the last time
you turned over control of the accelerator pedal in your car to a computer?
(Cruise Control) or let a computer fly the airliner you were on? (Collision
avoidance, Autopilot) Y2K is a reality but pales in the face of the damage
(and good) our profession can do every day.

But all of us had better get prepared for the folks who really are going to
benefit from the Y2K panic -- the legal profession. The same guys and gals
who just got used to billion dollar settlements from farmers in Virginia who
grow leaves we roll up, stick in our mouths and set on fire are licking
their chops at the rewards that will come from a public hypersensitive to
Y2K panic. Ask your Errors and Omissions insurance company what risks they
won't cover -- Sky diving without a parachute and Y2K issues.

Tom

1999\01\06@094807 by James R. Hall

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replys below
    -James, N9XLC
    RemoveME-jrhallspam_OUTspamKILLspamglobalsite.net
    -certified NERD
-----Original Message-----
From: tmariner <RemoveMEtmarinerTakeThisOuTspamspamOPTONLINE.NET>
To: EraseMEPICLISTspamspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: Cockroach Detection and Y2K bugs.


{Quote hidden}

seems to me ppl would abuse that 'right'...
say you buy a game to trade (illegally) over
the internet but it has piracy protection
built in... could you return it because
it is 'not fit for the purpose for which it was
purchased'

for the record, I hate piracy and I also hate
some of the 'protection' schemes that prevent
me from playing my games on my toshiba libretto
(no cd drive) or from playing my games over
the internet (someone steals or 'generates' my
cd-key)
its annoying, sorry for the post since I went
way way off topic but I had to get that
off of my chest.

1999\01\06@114945 by Jim Sokoloff

picon face
tmariner wrote:

> When was the last time
> you turned over control of the accelerator pedal in your car to a computer?
> (Cruise Control) or let a computer fly the airliner you were on? (Collision
> avoidance, Autopilot)

AFAIK, there is no "computer flying an airliner" for collision
avoidance. Even the most advanced TCAS system just serves an alert to
the flight crew who must manually manuever the airplane away from the
threat.

---Jim

1999\01\06@123058 by dave vanhorn

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At 11:38 AM 1/6/99 -0500, Jim Sokoloff wrote:
>tmariner wrote:
>
>> When was the last time
>> you turned over control of the accelerator pedal in your car to a computer?
>> (Cruise Control) or let a computer fly the airliner you were on? (Collision
>> avoidance, Autopilot)


And since when does your cruise control know or care what day it is?

1999\01\06@125800 by Harrison Cooper

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And since when does your cruise control know or care what day it is?


mine would be very confused....I goto work in the dark, and go home in the
dark....it must always *think* it is night.

1999\01\06@130806 by Andy Kunz

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>(Cruise Control) or let a computer fly the airliner you were on? (Collision
>avoidance, Autopilot) Y2K is a reality but pales in the face of the damage

Which means 99% of the flight.  Ask a crew chief how long his plane is on
cruise - you'll be surprised!

Andy


==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1999\01\06@133638 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
> >> When was the last time
> >> you turned over control of the accelerator pedal in your car to a computer?
> >> (Cruise Control) or let a computer fly the airliner you were on? (Collision
> >> avoidance, Autopilot)
>
>
> And since when does your cruise control know or care what day it is?

That's why I don't set the clock in my car, keep it guessing :-)

1999\01\06@155146 by tmariner

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Hello Jim,

>tmariner wrote:
> >
> >> When was the last time
> >> you turned over control of the accelerator pedal in your
> car to a computer?
> >> (Cruise Control) or let a computer fly the airliner you
> were on? (Collision
> >> avoidance, Autopilot)
>
>
> And since when does your cruise control know or care what day it is?
>

It doesn't, and that's point of the message -- Much more real damage can be
done by embedded control program bugs that have nothing to do with Y2K or
any other date stuff. But you and I are going to spend tons of time on
witness stands testifying whether an elevator or automatic coffee maker firm
is liable because the unit needed a reset on midnight 12/31/99 and
inconvenienced a civilian for three nanoseconds.

Tom

1999\01\07@033158 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   The problem would seem most likely to be a real time clock chip that
   gave results that crashed a poorly written program.

Well yeah.  Exactly what the doom-sayers claim!  Who knows HOW MANY
poorly written programs are out there, with the programmers long gone
and unreachable!!  Who knows HOW MANY devices that shouldn't really care
about the date have a clock chip in there to derive the day-of-week
instead of a trivial configuration!!!  It's all going to BREAK and
NOTHING WILL WORK ANYMORE!!!!

What I can't understand is how anyone figures it will take more than a
couple hours to staighten anything that breaks out.  Do they think some
lawyer will be standing around saying "no, you must not set the date to
1974.  It would be WRONG!  Let's sue instead!"

BillW

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