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'Ceramic resonators'
1995\08\07@220559 by First Last

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Ceramic resonators come in 2 types -
 2 pin  and  3 pin with built in capacitors

In general low frequency 2 pin is 150KHz
to a high of 1.5MHz
each extreme adds to cost.
In this range, 455KHz is probably lowest cost.

then another type covers 1.5M to 25 or 50MHz
available in 2 or 3 pin.
Again, the extremes cost the most.
4MHz is pretty inexpensive

I think both styles come in SMT but I'm not sure of cost.

Available from 4 main companies that I know of:

Integrity Technology  408-262-8640
 least cost, only deals in large quantities (5000 or so)
 I saw that there is a low quantity "dealer" in Canada

AVX/Kyocera  803-448-9411
4MHz with caps is KBR4.00MKS
 I get these through Kent Elec. for $.26 in 100s
455KHz without caps is KBR455HKTS
 I get these through Kent Elec. for $.20 in 100s

MuRata  404-436-3030
 about .35 for equiv 4MHz part

Panasonic   most expensive, available through Digi-Key  (800-digikey)
.58 in 100s

1995\08\09@013208 by Barry R Gordon

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You wrote:
>
>Where can I get ceramic resonators for the PICs?  I want to try the
sine
>wave program in the Parallax documentation, and it calls for an 8 MHz
>ceramic resonator.
>
There are two companies that I know of that make Ceramic Resonators
 1)  Murata Eri     1-800-831-9172
 2)  Avx Kyocera    I got this name through a distributor

Good Luck
  Barry

1995\08\11@080044 by DOM ALTAMURO

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Ceremic Resonators for the PIC
I've used resonators from Hosfelt (1-800-524-6464).
500kHz and 2mHz.... 0.50 each.
What a bargin!  :-)


On an unrelated note...
Am looking for an inexpensive supplier of PICs in low
quantity (25 and under).

Specifically (for right now) the 16C84.

The cheapest I've found for the 16C84 is....Parallax!
And I know someone out there must be selling them for less
then $7.25 each.

---
~ SLMR 2.1a ~ This space unintentionally left blank....


'Ceramic Resonators'
1996\05\01@152200 by Martin McCormick
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       I notice that many people posting to this list use ceramic resonators
in their projects.  What is the functional difference between a crystal and
a resonator?  What do they look like?  I may have seen them and not realized
what they were.

Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK 36.7N97.4W
OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Data Communications Group

1996\05\01@153021 by Mike Keitz
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>        I notice that many people posting to this list use ceramic resonators
>in their projects.  What is the functional difference between a crystal and
>a resonator?  What do they look like?  I may have seen them and not realized
>what they were.

A resonator usually looks like a little plastic cube.  Some of them have two
leads and some three.  The three-leaded ones have the loading capacitors
built in.  Functionally, they work like crystals only with much lower Q and
poor frequency stability and precision (maybe 1%, still much better than RC
but no good for any sort of accurate timing).  However, they cost less and
are also commonly available in the hundreds of KHz range where quartz
crystals are not common.

-Mike

1996\05\01@160620 by Andrew Warren

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Martin McCormick <spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I notice that many people posting to this list use ceramic
> resonators in their projects.  What is the functional difference
> between a crystal and a resonator?  What do they look like?  I may
> have seen them and not realized what they were.

Martin:

Ceramic resonators have looser frequency tolerances (1% or so) than
the average crystal, and they usually need larger capacitors in the
oscillator circuit.  Some are packaged with the appropriate
capacitors built-in.

They often come in little plastic boxes, but sometimes look almost
like capacitors.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - .....fastfwdKILLspamspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\05\01@210530 by Martin McCormick

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In message <199605011929.PAA19460spamKILLspamsable.cc.vt.edu>, Mike Keitz writes:
>A resonator usually looks like a little plastic cube.  Some of them have two
>leads and some three.  The three-leaded ones have the loading capacitors
>built in.

       I guess I have seen them or at least a close cousin.  I salvaged
the hand set of a cordless telephone and got a filter unit out of the receiver
section.  It is a little plastic cube with three leads and filters the signal
before it gets to the discriminator.  I don't know if this is the same type
of device as the resonators used for oscillators or not, but the description
sounds like a ceramic resonator.  I would expect the filter resonator to
have even worse Q than one used for an oscillator since it should have a
pass-band wide enough to let through a FM signal with 4 or 5 KHZ deviation.

Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK 36.7N97.4W
OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Data Communications Group

1996\05\02@105218 by S. Malde

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On Wed, 1 May 1996, Martin McCormick wrote:

>         I notice that many people posting to this list use ceramic resonators
> in their projects.  What is the functional difference between a crystal and
> a resonator?  What do they look like?  I may have seen them and not realized
> what they were.
>
> Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK 36.7N97.4W
> OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Data Communications Group
>

Hi All,

I addition to Martin's question, I was wondering if anyone knows if a
ceramic resonator is more robust than a crystal. I am using the pic in a
environment where there is quite a lot of vibration and I'm not sure what
type of oscillator to use. The pic will be running at 10Mhz, if that makes
any difference.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sheil Malde
University of Cambridge, Engineering Department.

1996\05\02@120426 by Tom Hack

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This is in response to Sheil Malde's request for information on Crystals and
Ceramic resonators in high vibration environments.

I'm not an expert on the subject, but this is what I do know:

Crystal oscillators can be made to operate in very high_G environments (for
example missles).  There are special packaging techniques (among other things)
that can keep the oscillator spurious for the vibration down to acceptable
levels, if signal purity is a big concern.  There are articles that show up
once in awhile on the subject in EDN and some of the other trade magazines.

I'm not sure how well ceramic resonators hold up, but a call to Murata-Erie
should do the trick.

I hope that helps a little.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Hack                             |  Internet: .....hackKILLspamspam.....uicc.com
Unitrode Integrated Circuits Corp.   |  Fax     : (US) 603-429-8564
Merrimack, NH  USA                   |  Voice   : (US) 603-429-8922

1996\05\02@133534 by Andrew Warren

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S. Malde <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone knows if a ceramic resonator is more
> robust than a crystal. I am using the pic in a environment where
> there is quite a lot of vibration and I'm not sure what type of
> oscillator to use. The pic will be running at 10Mhz, if that makes
> any difference.

Sheil:

Actually, frequency DOES make a difference.  At much lower
frequencies (like 500 KHz and below), the mass of the resonator is
high enough to make it very sensitive to shock and vibration.  At 10
MHz, though, the resonator's pretty small and, therefore, resistant
to damage.

Consult the manufacturer's data sheets for your particular
resonator's vibration specs.

-Andy


Andrew Warren - fastfwdspamspam_OUTix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499


'Ceramic Resonators'
1998\03\16@104802 by n Midgley
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Fellow Piclisters

How do I go about connecting a *two* pin resonator to an '84? The schematics
I've seen so far show a *three* pin device, with a pin to ground. And are
external
caps required?

And while you're here, everyone who's an electronics bod will know instinctively
how to make a Wein Bridge oscillator, but I'm a computer bod, so I don't. If
anyone could oblige with a schematic (ascii or otherwise) with values on
components, I'd be very grateful. Horowitz and Hill have an example, but with
a miniature incandescent lamp that I can't identify. Adjustable frequency would
be a special bonus.

Regards

John Midgley

1998\03\16@160339 by Andrew Warren

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John Midgley <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> How do I go about connecting a *two* pin resonator to an '84? The
> schematics I've seen so far show a *three* pin device, with a pin
> to ground. And are external caps required?

John:

The two-pin resonators don't have internal caps.  To connect one to
an '84, you wire one leg to Pin 15, one leg to Pin 16, and a
capacitor (around 33 pF or so) between each leg and Ground.

Try to keep all the circuitry as physically close together as
possible.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdKILLspamspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1998\03\16@180643 by Eric H

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I used a ceramic oscillator (2 pin) on a 16C65a design.  You connect each
pin on the Xtal Pins, and The Caps on the outsides
                       |
-----||-------------|
|              |         |
|           [ CR]    |
|              |         |
----||---------------|
|__
__|__
\    \    \        (Sorry, don't know ASCII well)

Eric - Kelar
{Original Message removed}

1998\03\16@193533 by Steve Baldwin

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> How do I go about connecting a *two* pin resonator to an '84?
Already answered.

> And while you're here, everyone who's an electronics bod will know
> instinctively
> how to make a Wein Bridge oscillator, but I'm a computer bod, so I don't.
If
> anyone could oblige with a schematic (ascii or otherwise) with values on
> components, I'd be very grateful. Horowitz and Hill have an example, but
> with
> a miniature incandescent lamp that I can't identify. Adjustable frequency
> would
> be a special bonus.

The lamp is used to provide automatic gain because it has a positive
temperature coefficient. ie. As it heats up, the resistance goes up.
In the H&H example, the gain is set by the 750 ohm resistor and the lamp
which needs to have a resistance of exactly half the value of 750 at
oscillation. The lamp is chosen to have less than this when cold and more
than that when hot. Hot in this instance, is when the current through the
lamp is set by the oscillator amplitude and the 750 ohm resistor. Because
the hot resistance is about ten times the cold resistance, the lamp type is
not very critical. It sorts itself out.
You can set the amplitude by varying the 750 ohm resistor and vary the
frequency by changing the value of both C's (usually by a ganged variable
capacitor).

The best idea is to build one and have a play with it.

Steve.

======================================================
 Very funny Scotty.  Now beam down my clothes.
======================================================
Steve Baldwin                Electronic Product Design
TLA Microsystems Ltd         Microcontroller Specialists
PO Box 15-680                email: RemoveMEstevebTakeThisOuTspamkcbbs.gen.nz
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======================================================

1998\03\17@155157 by Tom Handley

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  John, others here have answered your questions but as far as the Wein Bridge
oscillator, they are fine for fixed-frequency sine waves with low distortion.
You adjust the frequency via capacitors.

  If you want something more versatile, consider the MAX038. Some of it's
features include:

     0.1Hz to 20Mhz.
     Sine, Square, Triangle outputs selectable via 2 TTL inputs.
     Sine wave distortion is 0.75%.
     2Vp-p output drives +/- 20ma.
     Frequency modulation and frequency sweeping. 350 to 1 range.
     Independent frequency and duty-cycle (15-85%) adjustment.
     Internal oscillator can sync to external TTL clock.
     TTL Sync output with 50% duty cycle.

  They cost around $20 though...

  - Tom

At 01:47 PM 3/16/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Fellow Piclisters
>
>How do I go about connecting a *two* pin resonator to an '84? The schematics
>I've seen so far show a *three* pin device, with a pin to ground. And are
> external
>caps required?
>
>And while you're here, everyone who's an electronics bod will know
instinctively
{Quote hidden}

1998\03\19@084835 by Lou Calkins

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I would suggest using capacitors separate from the resonator (i.e. a two-pin
device which is a resonator only as opposed to a three-pin device which also
contains caps internally).  I have been told by my Microchip field service
engineer to use separate caps from the resonator on the 17C44 to maintain
better control on the capacitance values.  He said sometimes the internal
cap values vary and can go outside the range required for good startup and
stability.

We have another design with a 16C57 that does use the three-pin
cap/resonator device and its works just fine.  The field service engineer
said the amplifier circuitry internally in the 17C44 is more critical of the
external capacitance values than on the 16C57.

I would say unless you have a board space problem or you are trying to shave
a few cents off the cost, you should go with the external caps.

>How do I go about connecting a *two* pin resonator to an '84? The schematics
>I've seen so far show a *three* pin device, with a pin to ground. And are
>external
>caps required?

1998\03\19@084835 by Lou Calkins

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I would suggest using capacitors separate from the resonator (i.e. a two-pin
device which is a resonator only as opposed to a three-pin device which also
contains caps internally).  I have been told by my Microchip field service
engineer to use separate caps from the resonator on the 17C44 to maintain
better control on the capacitance values.  He said sometimes the internal
cap values vary and can go outside the range required for good startup and
stability.

We have another design with a 16C57 that does use the three-pin
cap/resonator device and its works just fine.  The field service engineer
said the amplifier circuitry internally in the 17C44 is more critical of the
external capacitance values than on the 16C57.

I would say unless you have a board space problem or you are trying to shave
a few cents off the cost, you should go with the external caps.

>How do I go about connecting a *two* pin resonator to an '84? The schematics
>I've seen so far show a *three* pin device, with a pin to ground. And are
>external
>caps required?


'Ceramic Resonators'
1998\09\02@151932 by dparker
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I'm using a Panaconic 4MHz Ceramic Resonator (efoec4004a4) and its not
resonating.  In their test circuit for an oscillation ciruit they have a
1Mohm resistor across pins 1 and 3.  Is this required for a 16c74a.
What oscillator type should I use in MPLAB (HS, RS, XT etc).  tia.

--
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608-835-9264
Primary Inet:
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http://acm.org/~parker/homepage.html

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'Ceramic Resonators'
1999\02\12@181130 by Sam Powell
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Are ceramic resonators a simple drop in replacement (bar the caps) for an
xtal?

Has anyone had any problems with them here?

ICQ: 23977120
E-Mail: RemoveMEspwebspamTakeThisOuTglobalnet.co.uk

1999\02\12@182956 by Darren Logan

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For PICs, use the three terminal resonators with built in caps - they're
perfect.
You can find them in the RS or FARNELL electronics catalogue.

Darren

1999\02\13@105110 by dparker

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Keep the lead lengths to the pic short.  Breadboarding I had 6" of wire
and it didn't resonate.  Two inches worked fine.

Darren Logan wrote:
>
> For PICs, use the three terminal resonators with built in caps - they're
> perfect.
> You can find them in the RS or FARNELL electronics catalogue.
>
> Darren

--
Donald C. Parker, Keystone Applications, Brooklyn, WI Phone:
608-835-9264
Primary Inet:
dparkerEraseMEspam.....execpc.com
Secondary:
EraseMEparkerspamacm.org
WWW:
http//http://www.execpc.com/~dparker

It is better to be a mouse in a cat's mouth than a client in
a
lawyer's hand.  Mario Cuomo

1999\02\14@011435 by Harold Hallikainen

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I have had the best luck with the resonators from muRata.  I've now got a
few thousand units out with 16 MHz resonators with built in caps on
16c74a's.  Have a look at the Murata web site in Japan.  You can put in
the type of processor you want to run and it'll come back with a
resonator characterized for that processor.

I've tried a few other companies and had problems with the oscillator not
reliably starting.  Also, before murata had characterishazed a resonator
for the PIC, I was using a generic murata unit with internal capacitors.
Apparently Microchip did a die shrink and our products stopped working.
We then switched to the new murata part and it worked great.

Harold


On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:08:08 -0000 Sam Powell <RemoveMEspwebEraseMEspamEraseMEGLOBALNET.CO.UK>
writes:
>Are ceramic resonators a simple drop in replacement (bar the caps) for
>an
>xtal?
>
>Has anyone had any problems with them here?
>
>ICQ: 23977120
>E-Mail: RemoveMEspwebspam_OUTspamKILLspamglobalnet.co.uk
>

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'Ceramic Resonators'
1999\10\20@114235 by Ted Jackson
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Hi,

Does anyone know where ceramic resonators may be obtained in small
quantities?  For example, I need a replacement for a Murata CSA3.24MG (3.24
MHz) resonator.  The few distributors who sell this product do not stock
it, nor are they willing to sell in small quantities.

Thanks!
 Ted
Ted Jackson
Institute of Paper Science and Technology
500 10th St., NW
Atlanta, GA  30318
(404) 894-6363 (Phone)
(404) 894-4778 (Fax)
RemoveMEted.jacksonTakeThisOuTspamspamipst.edu (email)

1999\10\20@140515 by Andy Kunz

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>Does anyone know where ceramic resonators may be obtained in small
>quantities?  For example, I need a replacement for a Murata CSA3.24MG (3.24
>MHz) resonator.  The few distributors who sell this product do not stock
>it, nor are they willing to sell in small quantities.

Try FAI.  http://www.future.ca

I get my Murata cer res from them, usually in 100's quantities.

Andy

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1999\10\20@141538 by Juimiin Hong

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> Does anyone know where ceramic resonators may be obtained in small
> quantities?  For example, I need a replacement for a Murata CSA3.24MG (3.24
> MHz) resonator.  The few distributors who sell this product do not stock
> it, nor are they willing to sell in small quantities.

I was in the same situation a few months ago.  If you can't find a
distributor that sells it, or will give samples call up muRata.  I was
able to get my muRata samples from Tonar.

Good luck
Juimiin

1999\10\20@230655 by Paul Kelly

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There's a surplus place in Australia http://www.rockby.com.au selling 3.5ish Mhz
two terminal resonators for 10cAU each in small quantities...

PK
{Original Message removed}

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