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'COM84 programmer'
1997\02\01@155143 by Tv Man

picon face
   Hello! I am working on a project that uses a 16C56 chip. Will the COM84
programmer read and program this chip?

   Thanks,
   Mike Richardson

        ____________________________________
       /                                   /\
      /            Tv-Man                _/ /\
     /                                  / \/
    / http://www.mindspring.com/~tvman  /\
   /___________________________________/ /
   \___________________________________\/
    \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \

1997\02\02@122305 by Tv Man

picon face
   Hello! I am working on a project that uses a 16C56 chip. Will the COM84
programmer read and program this chip?

   I was hoping to build this programmer this weekend. I do not want to
build it if it wont program 16C56 chips. I compaired the data sheets and
the 16C56 pinout is the same as the 16C84. The 16C84 seems to have a eprom
on board.

   Will the COM84 program a 16C56 chip?

   Thanks,
   Mike Richardson

        ____________________________________
       /                                   /\
      /            Tv-Man                _/ /\
     /                                  / \/
    / http://www.mindspring.com/~tvman  /\
   /___________________________________/ /
   \___________________________________\/
    \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \

1997\02\02@132957 by Bob Blick

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At 12:20 PM 2/2/97 -0500, you wrote:
>    Hello! I am working on a project that uses a 16C56 chip. Will the COM84
>programmer read and program this chip?

No, you need the COM56 programmer for that.


Oh, sorry about that, I shouldn't have, but it was too hard to resist.
There is no COM56 as far as I know. The COM84 will not do the 16c56.

1997\02\02@172655 by Sarunas Cepulis

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Tv Man wrote:
{Quote hidden}

No,
Because 16c56 do not support serial programming mode.
Saras.

1997\02\02@234931 by Tv Man

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At 07:59 PM 2/2/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Mike,
>
>>     Hello! I am working on a project that uses a 16C56 chip. Will the COM84
>> programmer read and program this chip?
>
>No.  The 16C56 needs a 14-wire interface (2 clocks + 12 data) to program
>it compared to the 2-wire (clock + data) interface provided by the
>COM84 programmer.

  Thanks for the reply David. Now how do i build a 16C56 programmer?


   Tv Man

   http://www.mindspring.com/~tvman/

----

1997\02\03@093704 by David Tait

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Tv Man wrote:

>    Thanks for the reply David. Now how do i build a 16C56 programmer?

Unless you enjoy debugging hardware I strongly advise you to buy one.
Have a look at my PIC links page for some pointers to commercial
16C5X programmers.  If you must build your own then the information
you need is here:

http://www.microchip2.com/download/lit/progspec/30190f.pdf

If you promise not to bother me with questions :-) then have a look at
my own design for a universal PIC programmer; it comes with 16C5X
programming software for DOS and is described here:

http://www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/upp.html

Good luck,

David
--
http://www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj

1997\02\03@101243 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> At 07:59 PM 2/2/97 +0000, you wrote:
> >Hi Mike,
> >
> >>     Hello! I am working on a project that uses a 16C56 chip. Will the COM84
> >> programmer read and program this chip?
> >
> >No.  The 16C56 needs a 14-wire interface (2 clocks + 12 data) to program
> >it compared to the 2-wire (clock + data) interface provided by the
> >COM84 programmer.
>
>    Thanks for the reply David. Now how do i build a 16C56 programmer?

Well a 16C5X programmer is a bit tougher thatn the 16C84 not only because
of the 14 pin interface but also because the 16C5X chips are EPROM based
not EEPROM based. The two big changes from that are that you need a 100 uS
(microsecond) pulse for programming and that the Vpp voltage actually
uses real current (up to 50ma IIRC).

Such a programmer is on my task list. It may even get done this year ;-)

IMHO the cleanest way to build a programmer is to bootstrap off the 16C84.
With the 16C84 you can get the precise 100 uS pulses you need and
encapulate most of the functionality in the programmer, not the PC program.
Also the 16C84 is easy to program/reprogram using the COM84 programmer.

The biggest problem with the 16C84 is the lack of I/O pins. So you'll need
a few support chips to get the I/O you need. The programmer breaks down
into three sections:

1) I/O to the 16C5X chip. For output use two 74C595 3-state serial shift
registers. Why?
  a) Only requires 4 wires to shift, latch, and tri-state 16 lines.
  b) Can be tri-stated so that you can read back the data written to the
     16C5X chip.

For input use two 74HC244 octal buffers because the data can be read in
4 bits at a time. The fourth half buffer can be used to buffer 4 bits of
one of the '595s so that the other 4 bits of that '595 can be used to
the 244 output enables.

2) Vpp control. Vpp needs to swing from 0V to 13V. My favorite circuit
for this is to use an LM317 variable regulator configured as a programmable
regulator using a resistor to the ADJ pin to set 13V and a Open Collector
buffer to the pin to set 1.25V. In addition the MCLR/Vpp pin on the PIC
should be connected to Vpp via a 100 ohm resistor to limit current. The
1.25V though that resistor only gives 12ma of current which can easily
be sucked down by another OC buffer (a 7406 gives you 6 of them)
So with a LM317, 3 resistors, and a 7406 you can control the Vpp using
only one 16C84 pin.

3) PC interface. A couple of options here. The easy way is to build
a 4 wire interface to the parallel port described on the list a couple of
days ago. It's basically two data lines, a clock, and a handshake line.
Even better is to use one of the 7406 OC buffers to buffer the data line
so that you only need one data line. The PC can drive the data line
when it wants to send data and to set the data line to an OC state
when it wants to read. In fact the weak pullups on the B port of the 16C84
can be utilized so that you don't need an extra pullup resistor.

The other option is to add a MAX232 and connect to the serial port. Only
requires two pins from the 16C84.

Ok how do you hook it up?

A0-A2 of the 16C84 connect to the DATA, CLK, and LATCH of the 74C595's.
The high 4 bits of the 595 closest to the 16C84 are buffered through 1/2
of one of the 244's. Those 4 bits plus the whole 595 further away from
the 16C84 are the output 12 bits to the 16C5X. The low 4 bits of the closer
595 connect to the output enables of the other 3 1/2s of the 244's and
the output enables of the 1/2 244 connected to the 595 and the output enable
of the further 595.

B4-B6 are the PC interface.

B0-B3 connect to the outputs of the 3 1/2's of the 244s whose inputs are
connected to the 12 input bits from the 16C5X chip.

B7 Clocks the programming pulse line of the 16C5X chip.

A3 Clocks the increment address line of the 16C5X chip.

A4 controls the programmable voltage generator. The generator should be
wired to produce 13V when A4 is low.

So with a wall wart (15-18V), a 16C84, 5 TTL chips, and the programmable
voltage generator, along with the program that glues it all together. It
can be pulled together. I know a picture would do wonders to describe this
but I just don't have time to do it right this second. Maybe later this week.

A lot of the support chips are due to the lack of I/O pins on the 16C84. This
could be solved by using a 40 pin 16CXX chip (line the 16C65 or the 16C74)
Since these are serially programmable (like the 16C84) a 16C84 plus the
programmable voltage generator is all you need to program the bigger chips.
You could then build the programmer from that bigger chip eliminating all
of the support chips except the 7406. Plus you get a parallel slave port
and a serial port in the bargain.

So there's some thoughts. Hope they help.

BAJ

1997\02\03@140959 by Bob Blick

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At 10:11 AM 2/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>> At 07:59 PM 2/2/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> >Hi Mike,
>> >
>> >>     Hello! I am working on a project that uses a 16C56 chip. Will the
COM84
>> >> programmer read and program this chip?

No, it will not. The '56 is harder to program.

On a related note, why do you need to use a '56? Unless you are trying to
do a direct copy of a chip, or run at 20Mhz, the '84 is a much better
choice(other readers out there-please correct me if I'm wrong on this!) if
you are trying to learn about PICs.

If you are trying to do a direct copy of a chip, don't forget that it'll be
read-protected.

-Bob

1997\02\04@063346 by Madsen, Jens

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face
The Programmer at http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c888600/newpic.htm works with
all computers. Vdd is stable at 5.2V and Vpp is 13V if used with jdm84.
Risetime on MCLR is less than 1us. Vdd is short-circuit protected.

Jens Dyekjfr Madsen
spam_OUTJens.MadsenTakeThisOuTspampost3.tele.dk
http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c888600/newpic.htm  or
http://www.ebar.dtu.dk/(c888600/newpic.htm


'com84 Programmer'
1999\02\07@182807 by Hanafi Tanudjaja
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1.Can com84 programmer be used to program 16F84 ?
2.Where I can find free or shareware software for it ?

TIA
Hanafi T


'COM84 programmer'
2000\04\06@083323 by Stan Ockers
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face
                           Subject:                        Time:    7:06
AM
                           COM84 programmer
4/6/00
                                                            Date:
After using a parallel port programmer for quite a while, I recently
switched to a simple serial port programmer to program PIC16F84's.  The
programer uses few parts, is easy to use and best of all, needs no external
power supply.  The programmer I'm talking about can be found at:
http://websites.ntl.com/~matthew.rowe/micros/
Click on 'Start' under PIC and then 'build the programmer'.
The software I use is called PIX and can be found at:
http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-53783/
Click on 'download PIX113b.zip'

Since this programmer is so convenient, is there any reason not to prefer
it over a parallel port programmer?

I built the programmer using 1/2 of a Radio Shack Dual general-purpose IC
PC board, (276-159).  If anyone is interested, I can make up a package of
description and pictures.  Contact me off-list if you are interested,   (
.....ockersKILLspamspam@spam@anl.gov ).

Is there a chance someone might create a similar design for the PIC16F87X
series soon?

Stan

2000\04\06@120737 by jamesnewton

face picon face
You'll never know until you try it.

P.S. I'm not responsible if you do and the chip fries.

---
James Newton jamesnewtonspamKILLspamgeocities.com 1-619-652-0593
http://techref.massmind.org NEW! FINALLY A REAL NAME!
Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting)


{Original Message removed}

2000\04\06@123749 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Actually, I've not looked for the document at the microchip site
http://www.microchip.com
if you do, please email me the links to the appropriate information so I can
post it for others?

BTY: have you looked at
Programming an '877 with a stripped down Tait (basically a cable) under
Linux by Byron A Jeff
http://techref.massmind.org/microchip/16F877/taitlinux.htm

---
James Newton .....jamesnewtonKILLspamspam.....geocities.com 1-619-652-0593
http://techref.massmind.org NEW! FINALLY A REAL NAME!
Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting)


{Original Message removed}

2000\04\06@124541 by johan strombom

picon face
<x-flowed>Hi!

I can't believe it would be very hard to use the "Extra low cost pic
programmer" (http://www.jdm.homepage.dk/newpic0.htm) with a pic12C508
instead, the only problem is that I have no idea about the pin configuration
for this device. Does anyone know if it's able to build a similar programmer
for pic12C508, and how? I'm also interested in a simple programmer for the
pic16c74b.

/Johan


{Quote hidden}

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

</x-flowed>

2000\04\06@131611 by chunhee song

flavicon
face
I am in same situation here. I want to build a cheap programmer for
pic16f873. I am a penniless student and don't afford to spend money on it.
Does anyone can help me???

Thanks a lot

----------
> From: johan strombom <RemoveMEjohanspiclistTakeThisOuTspamhotmail.com>
> To: spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: COM84 programmer
> Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 11:33 AM
>
> Hi!
>
> I can't believe it would be very hard to use the "Extra low cost pic
> programmer" (http://www.jdm.homepage.dk/newpic0.htm) with a pic12C508
> instead, the only problem is that I have no idea about the pin
configuration
> for this device. Does anyone know if it's able to build a similar
programmer
> for pic12C508, and how? I'm also interested in a simple programmer for
the
{Quote hidden}

7:06
> >AM
> >                             COM84 programmer
> >4/6/00
> >                                                              Date:
> >After using a parallel port programmer for quite a while, I recently
> >switched to a simple serial port programmer to program PIC16F84's.  The
> >programer uses few parts, is easy to use and best of all, needs no
external
> >power supply.  The programmer I'm talking about can be found at:
> >http://websites.ntl.com/~matthew.rowe/micros/
> >Click on 'Start' under PIC and then 'build the programmer'.
> >The software I use is called PIX and can be found at:
> >http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-53783/
> >Click on 'download PIX113b.zip'
> >
> >Since this programmer is so convenient, is there any reason not to
prefer
> >it over a parallel port programmer?
> >
> >I built the programmer using 1/2 of a Radio Shack Dual general-purpose
IC
> >PC board, (276-159).  If anyone is interested, I can make up a package
of
> >description and pictures.  Contact me off-list if you are interested,
(
> >  EraseMEockersspamanl.gov ).
> >
> >Is there a chance someone might create a similar design for the
PIC16F87X
> >series soon?
> >
> >Stan
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

2000\04\06@133902 by Alice Campbell

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I agree that we need a simple way to progam the 877s .  from what
i understand and have been able to glean, there are three issues:
a.  pinout is different  (tiny problem)
b.  timing on write cycle is different, so pip01, spp, etc need
reworking. (medium problem)
c.  RB3 needs to be incorporated into the programming lines-it
controls low-voltage programming.  Hint:  a six-conductor phone
line and plug is used on the ICD to handle the lines.  This needs
also to be incorporated into the software end of the programmer.
(medium problem)
alice

{Quote hidden}

.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA29064 for ><RemoveMEockersTakeThisOuTspamspamanl.gov>; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:54:58 -0500 (C
DT)
{Quote hidden}

2000\04\06@183248 by ris.robertson

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Hi:

I'm in a similar position as you (i.e. poor student) and I went through
quite a phase of building different programmers trying to find one that
works.  I had the best luck with Pic-Programmer 2 (aka the JDM programmer).
It is powered by your RS-232 port, and takes no special components (a
couple of transistors, two zener diodes (5.1V and 8.2V), four regular
diodes, and two capacitors) and I can definitely say that it does work (at
least for 16F84s in my experience).  The Pic-Programmer 2 schematic can be
downloaded at http://members.tripod.com/kizzyblizzy/pic2.htm.  You'll
probably have to change the socket pinout on the schematic to suit the
16F873.

For software, I use IC-Prog which can be found/downloaded at
http://www.h2deetoo.demon.nl/.  The software is Windows based and very
intuitive. The documentation claims it supports all PIC 16/17 series MCUs
(along with dozens of other devices), but I haven't used it specifically
for 16F873s yet.  Perhaps someone who has used this hardware/software
combination can vouch for it.

Hope this helps,

Chris Robertson.

On Wednesday, April 05, 2000 1:04 PM, chunhee song
[SMTP:EraseMEchunheespamEraseMELPL.ARIZONA.EDU] wrote:
> I am in same situation here. I want to build a cheap programmer for
> pic16f873. I am a penniless student and don't afford to spend money on
it.
{Quote hidden}

The
{Quote hidden}

2000\04\07@040432 by JP.BROWN

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face
Can anyone confirm or expand on point 'b.' below (write cycle timing.
Thank's -------- John

On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Alice Campbell wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2000\04\10@214440 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
> BTY: have you looked at
> Programming an '877 with a stripped down Tait (basically a cable) under
> Linux by Byron A Jeff
> http://techref.massmind.org/microchip/16F877/taitlinux.htm

I have. ;-)

Just a couple of caveats.

1) I have not built this proposed cable yet. This document is simply a written
observation of how to reduce a Tait style programmer into a cable by
eliminating all of the high voltage generation stuff.

2) My student has completed phase 1 of the picprg 2.2 port and has successfully
programmed a 16F874 using a extension socket for a Tait style 16F84 programmer.
In addition she has updated picprg 2.2 so that the parallel port base address
can be choosen directly instead of via a port number. I had a brief E-mail
conversation with Brian Lane, the author of picprg 2.2 and he assured me that
the code is GPL and that he'd be happy to integrate any changes we made. His
only request was that these changes be released through him. Because of this
and because my student did not update the user interface for setting the
port, we're not yet ready to release the changes. We should be prepped to go
sometime next week.

A couple of points. First the bulk erasure sequence is totally different
than the 16F84 sequence. We ended up programming the sequence specified in
the programming specifications for the part. Works like a champ. The
second point is that the data EEPROM programming mode is different and
we didn't really address it. Currently our code simply generates errors for
the data EEPROM. As part of the cleanup we'll probably just disable the
data EEPROM programming for now.

Hope this update gives you a sense of what can be done. Tony Nixon's ROMZap
is the next port on the Horizon.

BAJ

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