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'CMOS video camera modules'
1998\10\30@010402 by Peter Crowcroft

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I can provide these for about $US24 plus $3 postage plus $5 bank charge
(just send me your local check is OK).

1/3" mono 5V +-0.5V; 2:1 interface; 1V pp composite video; EIA or CCIR;
image 4.8mm x 3.6mm; 1lux at F1.4; 240 TV lines

Color also available.

Just in case anyone is interested.


regards,  Peter

-------------------------------------------------
Peter J. Crowcroft     DIY ELECTRONICS (HK) Ltd
PO Box 88458,   Sham Shui Po,  Hong Kong
Voice: 852-2720 0255      Fax: 852-2725 0610
        Web: http://kitsrus.com
        ICQ #2064 4080
-------------------------------------------------

1998\10\30@011440 by Dave VanHorn

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> 1/3" mono 5V +-0.5V; 2:1 interface; 1V pp composite video; EIA or CCIR;


That's 2:1 INTERLACE.. You'll sell more that way.
:)

1998\10\30@061953 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Dave VanHorn wrote:

> > 1/3" mono 5V +-0.5V; 2:1 interface; 1V pp composite video; EIA or CCIR;
>
>
> That's 2:1 INTERLACE.. You'll sell more that way.
> :)

Yes. And if you'd add overall dimensions and approx. weight per, even
more. Please.

tia,

Peter


'CMOS video camera modules'
1998\11\02@100231 by lilel
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> I can provide these for about $US24 plus $3 postage plus $5 bank
> charge (just send me your local check is OK).
>
> 1/3" mono 5V +-0.5V; 2:1 interface; 1V pp composite video; EIA or
> CCIR; image 4.8mm x 3.6mm; 1lux at F1.4; 240 TV lines
>
> Color also available.
>
> Just in case anyone is interested.
>

What kind of infrared performance do they have?  Most of these CCD
cameras can see a ways into infrared, I've got a night vision app
that might work real well.

I'd like to shove this signal into a standard US VCR but know nothing
about formats for these signals.  What is EIA and CCIR?

-- Lawrence Lile

"Nyquist was an optimist."

=> Median Filter Source Code
=> AutoCad blocks for electrical drafting

at:  http://home1.gte.net/llile/index.htm

1998\11\03@125527 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Lawrence Lile wrote:

> What kind of infrared performance do they have?  Most of these CCD
> cameras can see a ways into infrared, I've got a night vision app
> that might work real well.

Probably lousy. 1 lux is not exactly top class nowadays. You also need a
better lens than standard.

> I'd like to shove this signal into a standard US VCR but know nothing
> about formats for these signals.  What is EIA and CCIR?

EIA is what you want for NTSC (even B/W). CCIR covers PAL and SECAM (also
including B/W).

The key for you is '1 V standard video output'. This is what a VCR will
take at its standard input.

Peter

1998\11\03@192516 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
An aside question, here:

If I wanted to make a low power TV transmitter to go with one of these
standard 1v p-p video out CCDs, could I just amplitude modulate a video
carrier freq. with the output of the camera and then send that? I assume
that all of the sync signals, etc, are provided by the camera.

Thanks,

Sean

At 06:41 PM 11/3/98 +0000, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

+-------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                  |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM|
| Electrical Engineering Student|
+-------------------------------+
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
spam_OUTshb7TakeThisOuTspamcornell.edu  Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315 ICQ #: 3329174

1998\11\04@000733 by Dan Larson

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On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:23:13 -0500, Sean Breheny wrote:

>An aside question, here:
>
>If I wanted to make a low power TV transmitter to go with one of these
>standard 1v p-p video out CCDs, could I just amplitude modulate a video
>carrier freq. with the output of the camera and then send that? I assume
>that all of the sync signals, etc, are provided by the camera.

No...

TV carriers use a vestigial side band.  Only the center + the uppper side band
are transmitted.  There is a small lower side band where the FM audio hangs out.

>
>Thanks,
>
>Sean
>


Steal a cheap modulator from an old video game and amplify the output of that,
perhaps?

Dan

1998\11\04@062221 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
>At 10:59 PM 11/3/98 +0000, you wrote:
>On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:23:13 -0500, Sean Breheny wrote:
>
>>An aside question, here:
>>
>>If I wanted to make a low power TV transmitter to go with one of these
>>standard 1v p-p video out CCDs, could I just amplitude modulate a video
>>carrier freq. with the output of the camera and then send that? I assume
>>that all of the sync signals, etc, are provided by the camera.
>
>No...
>
>TV carriers use a vestigial side band.  Only the center + the uppper side
band
>are transmitted.  There is a small lower side band where the FM audio
hangs out.

Dan, are you sure?

I thought I had seen Amateur TV transmitters which use full double side
band video. In fact, I believe that the reason why vestigial side band is
used instead of SSB is that some vestige of the other sideband(and the full
carrier) is required for downward compatibility with DSB receivers (not
sure of this last assertion).

In my case, I don't care about the audio, I only need video. Will it make a
difference in this case?

Thanks again,

Sean



+-------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                  |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM|
| Electrical Engineering Student|
+-------------------------------+
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
.....shb7KILLspamspam@spam@cornell.edu  Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315 ICQ #: 3329174

1998\11\04@070837 by .

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face
At 07:23 PM 11/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>An aside question, here:
>If I wanted to make a low power TV transmitter to go with one of these
standard 1v p-p video out CCDs, could I just amplitude modulate a video
carrier freq. with the output of the camera and then send that? I assume
that all of the sync signals, etc, are provided by the camera.
>Thanks,
>Sean
>At 06:41 PM 11/3/98 +0000, you wrote:
>>On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Lawrence Lile wrote:
>> What kind of infrared performance do they have?  Most of these CCD
cameras can see a ways into infrared, I've got a night vision app  that
might work real well.
>>Probably lousy. 1 lux is not exactly top class nowadays. You also need a
better lens than standard.
>> I'd like to shove this signal into a standard US VCR but know nothing
about formats for these signals.  What is EIA and CCIR?
>>EIA is what you want for NTSC (even B/W). CCIR covers PAL and SECAM (also
including B/W).
>>The key for you is '1 V standard video output'. This is what a VCR will
take at its standard input.
>>Peter
>+-------------------------------+
>| Sean Breheny                  |
>| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM|
>| Electrical Engineering Student|
>+-------------------------------+
>Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
>Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
>shb7spamKILLspamcornell.edu  Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315 ICQ #: 3329174
Sean, check-out http://www.supercircuits.com for x-mtr and ccd info.
.....douglasKILLspamspam.....mnic.net

1998\11\04@090536 by Harrison Cooper

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Sorry to post to the entire list, but I deleted Sean message.

There have been some articles (I my still have them) on building an
Amatuer Television (ATV) system.  I assume that is what you are heading
for Sean?
> >If I wanted to make a low power TV transmitter to go with one of
> these
> >standard 1v p-p video out CCDs, could I just amplitude modulate a
> video
> >carrier freq. with the output of the camera and then send that? I
> assume
> >that all of the sync signals, etc, are provided by the camera.
>
>

1998\11\04@091310 by Mike Keitz

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On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:59:30 +0000 Dan Larson <EraseMEdlarsonspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTcitilink.com>
writes:
>On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:23:13 -0500, Sean Breheny wrote:

>>, could I just amplitude modulate a
>video
>>carrier freq. with the output of the camera and then send that?


>TV carriers use a vestigial side band.  Only the center + the uppper
>side band
>are transmitted.

Regulations may have changed, but it used to be legal for a low-power
(1000 W or less) TV transmitter to send simple AM with both sidebands.
However it does have to suppress the lower color subcarrier at Fv - 3.58
MHz, which can be done with a notch filter between the transmitter and
antenna.  Obviously that's not an issue using a black and white camera.

VSB generation used to be done with a giant band-reject filter between an
AM transmitter and the antenna.  With today's prices of electricity,
copper, and real estate, a modern transmitter generates a low level VSB
signal at an IF frequency, then converts it up to the TV channel
frequency and amplifies it with a linear amplifier.  Such a transmitter's
VSB filter can then be used for any channel without retuning it.  The
required suppression of the unwanted lower sideband is only about 20 dB
if I remember correctly.

>There is a small lower side band where the FM audio
>hangs out.

FM audio with +- 25 KHz deviation is transmitted 4.5 MHz *above* the
video carrier.  The audio carrier power is about 10% of the peak video
carrier power.  Full-power stations use an entirely seperate transmitter,
maybe even a seperate antenna.  A less desirable setup uses the same
power amplifier for picture and sound, because distortions in the
amplifier can intermodulate the two signals together, causing a degraded
picture or illegal out of band signals.

But, small hacker transmitters and RF modulators found in VCRs and video
games simply modulate a 4.5 MHz carrier with the audio signal, then add
this to the video going into the AM transmitter.  The AM transmitter
produces two sound carriers: one in the proper place and one below the
video carrier which could be a source of considerable interference if
allowed to get out over the air.  An RF notch filter similar to the one
used to remove the lower color subcarrier could be used.  Better
performance will result though from splitting the sound off to a seperate
RF generator or transmitter.


>Steal a cheap modulator from an old video game and amplify the output
>of that,
>perhaps?

Not too bad of an idea.  Some of these even have a VSB filter before the
output.


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1998\11\04@122351 by Peter L. Peres

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On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, Mike Keitz wrote:

> Regulations may have changed, but it used to be legal for a low-power
> (1000 W or less) TV transmitter to send simple AM with both sidebands.

Wish I was there ;) Don't even try to mention this to anyone in Europe or
here. ;)

> required suppression of the unwanted lower sideband is only about 20 dB
> if I remember correctly.

I don't know when this was coined, but nowadays you have to get 53 dB down
on the sound carrier of the next lowest channel. Channel spacing is 8MHz
and sound is at 5.5MHz here so you have 2.5MHz to get down there.  This
sounds easy but I'll be looking forward for your designs on how to do this
at 600MHz and above, and stay within consumer price range. Cable specs are
as bad or worse.

> >Steal a cheap modulator from an old video game and amplify the output
> >of that,
> >perhaps?
>
> Not too bad of an idea.  Some of these even have a VSB filter before the
> output.

Only those for band 1 and 2. BTW there was a RCA chip that used to do a
pretty good balanced modulator for this, and I think that the 1496 will
work up to 120 MHz.

Peter

1998\11\04@122356 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, Sean Breheny wrote:

> >TV carriers use a vestigial side band.  Only the center + the uppper side
> band
> >are transmitted.  There is a small lower side band where the FM audio
> hangs out.
>
> Dan, are you sure?

He is very right.

> I thought I had seen Amateur TV transmitters which use full double side
> band video. In fact, I believe that the reason why vestigial side band is

Yes, because it's a royal pain to remove the other sideband at high
frequency. Broadcast TV uses very elaborate schemes to do this.

> used instead of SSB is that some vestige of the other sideband(and the full
> carrier) is required for downward compatibility with DSB receivers (not
> sure of this last assertion).

The carrier isn't there at all. In fact, it is there, but this is
deliberate. A 10% RF power corresponds to the sync tips and this is there
to allow the sound intercarrier demodulation to function during sync tips.

> In my case, I don't care about the audio, I only need video. Will it make a
> difference in this case?

No. A SSB TV receiver will receive a DSB transmission fine. The other way
around it won't work. The video game/VCR modulators are DSB for the
reasons explained above.

Peter

1998\11\04@122404 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Sean Breheny wrote:

> An aside question, here:
>
> If I wanted to make a low power TV transmitter to go with one of these
> standard 1v p-p video out CCDs, could I just amplitude modulate a video
> carrier freq. with the output of the camera and then send that? I assume
> that all of the sync signals, etc, are provided by the camera.

Tinkering with UHF and expecting results the first time over is not
realistic. Pick up a video + audio modulator from a defunct VCR (or as a
spare part) and power it as advertised. This and a whip stub antenna will
work over 10 feet or so and it's mostly legal everywhere. If you need
more, invest $60 and buy a video sender, also legal. On the illegal side,
you might soon want to join the oven microwave magnetron crowd ;)

Peter

1998\11\04@122411 by Peter L. Peres

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On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Dan Larson wrote:

> Steal a cheap modulator from an old video game and amplify the output of that,
> perhaps?

Nonono. Please no. Cheap modulators do not suppress the sideband and
amplifying them is a proven recipe for interference generation in the
neighbourhood.

Peter

1998\11\04@144208 by shadedemon

picon face
If he's in the US there is an outfit that advertises in
Nuts & Volts regularly that sells a little legal transmitter
for <$100 I believe, can't remember the name off the top of
my head though.  By the time he does it and gets it right he
should have bought one.  I've seen it in operation (a friend
has one) and it's pretty good.  Has about 1000 foot range.
(I think that's about max for the legal non-licensed power
level.
Alan


Peter L. Peres wrote:
>
> On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Dan Larson wrote:
>
> > Steal a cheap modulator from an old video game and amplify the output of tha
t,
> > perhaps?
>
> Nonono. Please no. Cheap modulators do not suppress the sideband and
> amplifying them is a proven recipe for interference generation in the
> neighbourhood.
>
> Peter

1998\11\04@181459 by

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I'd personally go for one of those very cheap (and most definately nasty)
low power transmitters that are designed so that one VCR/Satelite/cable
receiver can be viewed on any number of tv's through the house.  They can be
picked up over here in the UK for under 10 pounds and save an enormous
amount of work playing with high frequency circuits.  Actually, they are
very cleverly (cheaply) designed, the one I have uses only 3 transistors to
transmit video and audio. They are not frequency locked in anyway and tend
to drift with temperature. Mine has a range of maybe 50 meters in open air.

Regards

Mike Rigby-Jones
mrjonesspamspam_OUTnortel.co.uk


{Quote hidden}

1998\11\05@013650 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <@spam@199811040453.WAA24770KILLspamspamcitycenter.citilink.com>, Dan Larson
<KILLspamdlarsonKILLspamspamCITILINK.COM> writes
>On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:23:13 -0500, Sean Breheny wrote:
>
>>An aside question, here:
>>
>>If I wanted to make a low power TV transmitter to go with one of these
>>standard 1v p-p video out CCDs, could I just amplitude modulate a video
>>carrier freq. with the output of the camera and then send that? I assume
>>that all of the sync signals, etc, are provided by the camera.
>
>No...
>
>TV carriers use a vestigial side band.  Only the center + the uppper side band
>are transmitted.  There is a small lower side band where the FM audio hangs out
.

That's how it's done commercially - also the carrier is suppressed to a
low level, but normal RF modulators just use standard AM modulation and
double sideband full carrier. Usually amateur radio TV transmissions are
double sideband as well, there's no need to worry about vestigal side
band.
--

Nigel.

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