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'CAPITAL LETTERS'
1998\07\20@095202 by Weaver

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How come everyone types their asm in all caps? lowercase works for
everything except the stuff in the #includes and look so much nicer.

1998\07\20@114319 by Don

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Weaver wrote:
>
> How come everyone types their asm in all caps? lowercase works for
> everything except the stuff in the #includes and look so much nicer.

How come everybody gets mad when they see a few caps on the internet? Im
an old timer, and we used to type everything in caps. Maybe it was
easier to read due to limited resolution of output devices, I guess.
Anyway, I wouldnt dare write a program in all caps, now. Theres just no
telling what the compiler might do if it is mad.
Don

1998\07\20@115158 by David VanHorn

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>> How come everyone types their asm in all caps? lowercase works for
>> everything except the stuff in the #includes and look so much nicer

Everywho?

>How come everybody gets mad when they see a few caps on the internet? Im
>an old timer, and we used to type everything in caps. Maybe it was
>easier to read due to limited resolution of output devices, I guess.
>Anyway, I wouldnt dare write a program in all caps, now. Theres just no
>telling what the compiler might do if it is mad.
>Don

Well, if you YELL at your compiler, you deserve what you get.

I always ask mine, politely, if it wouldn't mind greatly to look over
my code, figure out what I was trying to do, and then if it would
please ask the micro to do what I intended.

It seems to work most of the time :)

1998\07\20@120149 by Martin Darwin

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On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Don wrote:

> Weaver wrote:
> >
> > How come everyone types their asm in all caps? lowercase works for
> > everything except the stuff in the #includes and look so much nicer.
>
> How come everybody gets mad when they see a few caps on the internet? Im

Try and quickly read a paragraph in all CAPS. It is very hard.

THIS IS A TEST - SEE IT IS ANNOYING
TRYING TO READ THIS TEXT.

This is a test - see it is annoying
trying to read this text.

Also, on the internet, all caps == shouting. i.e. if you want to yell at
someone you write your message in all caps.

MD

1998\07\20@125457 by Don
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I didnt get on the net till last year. Who decided about the shouting?
are there other conventions using puctuation or some type of written
style to imply other emotional conditions, such as crying, dejected,
elated, etc and so forth?


Martin Darwin wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1998\07\20@131257 by Clewer,Brian

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Weaver wrote:
>How come everyone types their asm in all caps? lowercase works for
>everything except the stuff in the #includes and look so much nicer.

I come from a 'C' background, so when I wrote ASM files for the PIC, I
naturally wrote then in lower case.  The only problem came was when I had
compiled the code and tried to simulate it on my MP-SIM.  I couldn't get
the file registers to work unless I entered them in uppercase.  I now
write all my ASM in uppercase just so I don't have to keep changing them
to upper case when I use the simulator.  It might be a quirk of the
assembler or the simulator, either way, this would be the reason for me.

Brian.

1998\07\20@132344 by Bill Cornutt

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WARNING!

You guys are getting into the "weirder than me" region.

Bill C.


{Quote hidden}

1998\07\20@132348 by David VanHorn

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>I come from a 'C' background, so when I wrote ASM files for the PIC, I
>naturally wrote then in lower case.  The only problem came was when I had
>compiled the code and tried to simulate it on my MP-SIM.  I couldn't get
>the file registers to work unless I entered them in uppercase.  I now
>write all my ASM in uppercase just so I don't have to keep changing them
>to upper case when I use the simulator.  It might be a quirk of the
>assembler or the simulator, either way, this would be the reason for me.


I've been making all my variables, registers and so forth UC, the names
of the routines capitalized, and the ASM code lc.  This produces source
that's easy to read, and easy to type.

But, that's my own convention.


Doodle:
               inc COUNTER     ;Then, comments in natural language.
               rjmp Doodle         ;*** This would signify a recent change
                                             ;!!! This would signify a very
important note

Like that

1998\07\20@135053 by Don

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I do see what you mean, Martin. I think I figured it out too. The font
is why its hard to read. Many fonts are word processor type. I think
they assume that the caps will be used sparingly, and dont put enough
space between them when they are in a long string. In the old days, we
didnt have fonts (except for one simple one) so we didnt have the
problem. Anyway, I learn every day. Till now, I just followed suit to
keep from being austracized, not knowing why!
Don


Martin Darwin wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1998\07\20@140506 by White Horse Design

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At 09:51 20/07/98 -0400, you wrote:

>How come everyone types their asm in all caps? lowercase works for
>everything except the stuff in the #includes and look so much nicer.

I don't.
Code is in lowercase, constants are mostly always in uppercase.

I put other's use of CAPITALS down to ignorance! :-)

Regards

Adrian

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1998\07\20@140512 by White Horse Design

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At 09:37 20/07/98 -0700, you wrote:
>WARNING!
>
>You guys are getting into the "weirder than me" region.

They'll be TALKING ABOUT RELIGION next! :-(

Regards

Adrian

WWW    WWW   Adrian Gothard
WWW WW WWW   White Horse Design
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Developers of GPS satellite-based tracking systems for vehicles/helicopters

1998\07\20@140719 by White Horse Design

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At 12:59 20/07/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I do see what you mean, Martin. I think I figured it out too. The font
>is why its hard to read. Many fonts are word processor type. I think
>they assume that the caps will be used sparingly, and dont put enough
>space between them when they are in a long string. In the old days, we
>didnt have fonts (except for one simple one) so we didnt have the
>problem. Anyway, I learn every day. Till now, I just followed suit to
>keep from being austracized, not knowing why!

Here in the UK, motorway signs are in *lowercase* (Ok, well "Capitalised").
This is because it is easier to read.

Presumably tests were carried out many eons ago (psychological one's I
mean) to determine this.

Regards

Adrian

WWW    WWW   Adrian Gothard
WWW WW WWW   White Horse Design
WWWWWWWWWW   +44-385-970009 (Mobile/SMS), +44-118-962-8913/4 (voice/fax)
WWWW  WWWW   whdspamKILLspamzetnet.co.uk, http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/whd
---
Developers of GPS satellite-based tracking systems for vehicles/helicopters

1998\07\20@143403 by Martin Darwin

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On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Don wrote:

> I didnt get on the net till last year. Who decided about the shouting?

Well I assume it came from the fact that it was harder to read uppercase
messages, so it was assumed that the person was mad at you if they wrote
it in uppercase.

> are there other conventions using puctuation or some type of written
> style to imply other emotional conditions, such as crying, dejected,
> elated, etc and so forth?

Well yes and no. There is no punctuation to speak of but there are ways to
show emotion. Common ones are:

:)     - happy (also used to indicate the above paragraph was a joke)
:(     - unhappy
<g>    - like happy
*word* - emphasise a word (like putting it in bold)

There are lots of others but these are the common ones.

Uh, so does anyone use the above stuff in their messages that the PIC
shows on LCD displays. Hehe, had to work the PIC in somehow. :)

MD

1998\07\20@150343 by Mike Massen

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At 02:32 PM 20/7/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Well yes and no. There is no punctuation to speak of but there are ways to
>show emotion. Common ones are:
>
>:)     - happy (also used to indicate the above paragraph was a joke)

Nop, not where I come from ';)' is a toungue in cheek comment
but :) is never a joke - it JUST means you are pleased - happy

>:(     - unhappy
><g>    - like happy
>*word* - emphasise a word (like putting it in bold)


Rgds ~`:o)

Mike
Perth, Western Australia
Products/Personal/Client web area at http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus
(Current feature - trip to Malaysia to install equipment in jungle power
site)

Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes
academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that
theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic.

1998\07\20@155354 by Timothy D. Gray

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Nope not annoying for me, but I have used teletypes before, and most UPI
newsfeeds are all caps also.. I like it! much better than the HeY DeWd
WaNa WaReZ? morons on the net.

> Try and quickly read a paragraph in all CAPS. It is very
hard. >
{Quote hidden}

1998\07\20@175425 by paulb

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Don wrote:

> How come everybody gets mad when they see a few caps on the internet?

 Simply because it's *so* difficult to read.  Looking at it another
way, why do you suppose paperbacks aren't written in all caps?  No
contest.

> Im an old timer, and we used to type everything in caps.  Maybe it was
> easier to read due to limited resolution of output devices, I guess.

 No, it was due to the fact that teleprinters didn't HAVE lower case!
As simple as that.  In the Baudot (variants) character set, there are
characters for shifts between letters and numbers modes.  It was a five
data bit code.  Then came ASCII with seven, and the de-facto "IBMSCII"
with eight including quite useful graphics.

 If you don't recall this, you mustn't be that much of an "old-timer"!
I wrote an output driver for my (6809 FLEX) computer so I could print on
a teletype (in all-caps!).  Since I obtained a "DT-80" printer, it was
never used except to fake telegrams for weddings!  Hey!  Who remembers
telegrams?

--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1998\07\20@181953 by paulb

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Don wrote:

> I think I figured it out too. The font is why its hard to read.

 I'd say it is the *capitals* that make it hard to read.  Specifically,
the ratio of black to white (curiously enough, the ratio of green to
black on an old VDU, so it's actually the ratio of "mark" to "space"
rather than colour).

 I am tempted to consider that where the imprint is faint (as it often
was on mechanical typeheads, and reasons for this are limited impact
force and the subtle desire to conserve ink) capitals may have been a
little more legible than otherwise, but I suggest that the real reason
is the need to readily identify the line and word structure in order to
read at any speed and reliability.

> Many fonts are word processor type.  I think they assume that the caps
> will be used sparingly, and dont put enough space between them when
> they are in a long string.

 It's called *efficiency*.  Double spacing wastes paper *and* makes
reading proportionately slower.  True!  On the other hand, paragraphs
enhance legibility by providing visual references to reading focus.

 All caps on a teletype *needs* to be widely line-spaced and you will
note, usually was.  On a VDU with only a few dots between lines it is
quite illegible.

> In the old days, we didnt have fonts (except for one simple one) so we
> didnt have the problem.

 Oh, I don't know about that!  You *may* recall that the difference
between text modes in CGA, EGA and VGA standards on the PC was the
number of dots spacing between lines; CGA was dreadful even in mixed
case, EGA good and VGA great even prior to Windoze.  Actually, the
Monospace in which I see my work here is even wider-spaced, so it is
excellent for reading text.

>Till now, I just followed suit to keep from being austracized,

 And what's **WRONG** with being "Austracised" might I ask?  HMMM??

--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1998\07\21@063203 by Russell McMahon

picon face
Once upon a time the standard "terminal" was an ASR110 (if I recall the
name correctly (ASR = Automatic Send & receive?)) - a glorified
electromechanical typewriter which worked at, naturally enough, 110 Baud.
It also had a limited number of characters that it could print and so only
printed upper case (the alternative being ALL lower case which I guess
would be even worse). This may be the reason for the "early" use of upper
case only. Offline storage was paper tape (a paper-tape reader/writer was
included) - I wonder how many PICListers have seen one of these???

> From: Don <.....bjmcpherKILLspamspam.....USIT.NET>
> How come everybody gets mad when they see a few caps on the internet? Im
> an old timer, and we used to type everything in caps. Maybe it was
> easier to read due to limited resolution of output devices, I guess.
> Anyway, I wouldnt dare write a program in all caps, now. Theres just no
> telling what the compiler might do if it is mad.
> Don

1998\07\21@133023 by Lee Jones

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>> How come everybody gets mad when they see a few caps on the internet? Im
>> an old timer, and we used to type everything in caps. Maybe it was
>> easier to read due to limited resolution of output devices, I guess.

> Once upon a time the standard "terminal" was an ASR110 (if I recall the
> name correctly (ASR = Automatic Send & receive?)) - a glorified
> electromechanical typewriter which worked at, naturally enough, 110 Baud.

Actually, I believe you are referring to a Teletype Corporation
Model 33.  ASR (yes, automatic send receive) was a submodel suffix
if the unit had a paper tape reader/punch included.  Without the
paper tape support, it was a KSR (keyboard send receive).

The speed was 110 baud.  The extra start bit was, if I recall
correctly, required to allow the rotating main shaft to come
to rest after each character (and be ready for the next one).


> It also had a limited number of characters that it could print

Correct.  The symbols were on the outside surface of a small
cylinder (i.e. drum).  The mechanism raised and rotated the
drum until the correct symbol was aligned then a hammer knocked
the drum into the ribbon and thence the paper.

The smaller the symbol set, the smaller & lighter the drum, and
the cheaper the driving mechanism.  It was all electromechanical.

The Model 37 was a more expensive variant with a different
printing mechanism.  It could do both upper and lower case.


> and so only printed upper case (the alternative being ALL lower
> case which I guess would be even worse).

>From a human factors point of view, all lower case is better.
It's easier to read.  It's been found that people use the shape
of the letters and word to recognize it.  All upper case does
not have the extra clues that are included in all lower case
or mixed case printing.

However, the decisions & devices to do all upper case predate
the information glut we have today.  I believe they also predated
the research on reading that showed lower case was "good".


> This may be the reason for the "early" use of upper case only.

Originally, the goal was to get data -- any data -- from end to
end.  Telegraph and wireless were both high tech at one point.
And Morse code has no case distinction.  It was an arbitrary
operator and/or company decision to use all upper case.

Either communication was so "expensive" at the time, that it
was used for small volume high priority information.  The value
was in the data itself, not how it was presented.

The other common media was punched cards.  Again, this was so
old that case was immaterial when it was defined and fielded.

When computers were being developed, the researchers needed
input & output devices.  But their areas of interest were in
computing and there were competitive pressures.  So they used
existing infrastructure (punched cards, teletypes) with a new
interface.  Much quicker than developing it from scratch.


I think the driving factor was mostly step-wise refinement
and evolutionary nature of engineering.  People who tried to
deveop _everything_ from scratch took longer.  Those people
who adapted existing devices for support roles finished their
computing engines sooner and won market share.

The result was upper case being used by convention.

                                               Lee Jones

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1998\07\21@135458 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   >From a human factors point of view, all lower case is better.
   It's easier to read.  It's been found that people use the shape
   of the letters and word to recognize it.  All upper case does
   not have the extra clues that are included in all lower case
   or mixed case printing.

Is this inherent in the letters, or just because most of what people read is
in lowercase?  Back when I used ASR33s and Upper-case-only line printers, it
never really bothered me, but now that I'm more spoiled, seeing something in
all upper case is quite jarring.

BillW

1998\07\21@144148 by Lee Jones

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>> From a human factors point of view, all lower case is better.
>> It's easier to read.  It's been found that people use the shape
>> of the letters and word to recognize it.  All upper case does
>> not have the extra clues that are included in all lower case
>> or mixed case printing.

> Is this inherent in the letters, or just because most of what
> people read is in lowercase?

I think it's a feature of the letter shape.  Fitting each glyph
into a fixed size rectangle (i.e. upper case) removes clues that
your eye and brain use when reading.

Here's an example:

   manual    broken                        BROKEN    MANUAL

Now back up away from the screen.  I expect you'll be able to
recognize and "read" (i.e. differentiate) the lower case words
at a much farther distance than the upper case ones.  Once you
are far enough away, both upper case words become identical
rectangular shapes.

When reading, your peripheral vision starts to gives a rough
image of upcoming words.  Certain common shape words, like the,
are recognized and ignored easily.  I think that reading largely
shape recognition.  More shape helps (with a consistant set of
glyphs forming a font family -- I expect gross font changes are
so jarring because the pattern recognizer in your brain has to
reload or resync its shape set).

I've wanted to find & read up on the reading/shape psychology
research because of it's impact on both typography and human
factors.  But so many projects, so little time...


> Back when I used ASR33s and Upper-case-only line printers, it
> never really bothered me

Me neither.  Having any I/O device to a computer was way cool.
Once I had access to mixed case equipment, using the upper case
only units very quickly became a noticable issue.

                                               Lee Jones

1998\07\21@144354 by Pete Klammer

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> From a human factors point of view, all lower case is better.
> It's easier to read.  It's been found that people use the shape
> of the letters and word to recognize it.  All upper case does
> not have the extra clues that are included in all lower case
> or mixed case printing.

There is a pretty convincing experiment to illustrate why lowercase
is more readable:  cover half of a line of print, with the edge of
another sheet of paper, etc., and try to read it.  The results of
this experiment vary with font (another source of information redundancy).

Peter F. Klammer / PKlammerspamspam_OUTRacom.com
Racom Systems, Inc. / 6080 Greenwood Plaza Blvd / Englewood CO 80111
(303)773-7411 / FAX:(303)771-4708

1998\07\21@204818 by n/a

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Russell McMahon wrote:
>
> Once upon a time the standard "terminal" was an ASR110 (if I recall the
> name correctly (ASR = Automatic Send & receive?)) - a glorified
> electromechanical typewriter which worked at, naturally enough, 110 Baud.
> It also had a limited number of characters that it could print and so only
> printed upper case (the alternative being ALL lower case which I guess
> would be even worse). This may be the reason for the "early" use of upper
> case only. Offline storage was paper tape (a paper-tape reader/writer was
> included) - I wonder how many PICListers have seen one of these???

Perhaps the use of baudot is the problem (5 bit code) :-).

BTW I used to use the ASR's, I also used VDT's that only did Uppercase
(ie the blue turtle (hehe)). And I used keyboards that didn't have an
ESC, Enter (return or carriage return), or a TAB key. Just the
alpha-numeric, shift and control keys. But today we have all this and
we now need a way to add emphasis. This is done via the use of case,
smiley's, underscores and other unusual keys. This has been the standard
since 1978 with BBS's.

--
Neil Cherry     http://home.att.net/~ncherry    @spam@ncherryKILLspamspamworldnet.att.net

1998\07\22@113123 by Tom Handley

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  Heh, well I'm sure you are going to get a lot of comments over this. I
prefer to use CAPs on instructions, directives, constants, etc. But it's
like vegies. Some folks prefer peas, some prefer carrots, some
prefer both...

  - Tom

At 09:51 AM 7/20/98 -0400, you wrote:
>How come everyone types their asm in all caps? lowercase works for
>everything except the stuff in the #includes and look so much nicer.
>
>
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs...

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