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'CAD electronic software'
1997\08\27@030350 by David BALDWIN

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Pic users,


       Sometimes people ask for PCB design soft. It is quite expensive and not
easy to use. For month, I am using Eagle 3.51 from a french company, it
is very nice but ... expensive. On a french server,
http://www.eprat.com, you can find a forum. For 4 days now, there is a
link to a posted soft: cracked Eagle 3.51. It's up to you...


David

1997\08\27@034219 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

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On Wed, Aug 27, 1997 at 08:37:04AM +0200, David BALDWIN wrote:
...
> you can find a forum. For 4 days now, there is a
> link to a posted soft: cracked Eagle 3.51. It's up to you...

Oh yeah, my neighbour down the road leaves his Porsche parked
in his driveway unlocked - it's up to you.

--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs               |            HI-TECH Software
Email: spam_OUTclydeTakeThisOuTspamhtsoft.com          |          Phone            Fax
WWW:   http://www.htsoft.com/    | USA: (408) 490 2885  (408) 490 2885
PGP:   finger .....clydeKILLspamspam@spam@htsoft.com   | AUS: +61 7 3354 2411 +61 7 3354 2422
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANSI C for the PIC! Now shipping! See http://www.htsoft.com for more info.

1997\08\27@064307 by Glen Benson

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I have software out there for sale, the best advertisement I can get is a
hacked version. I put one out my self. People will use it over freeware,
and when the get used to it, and have a little change they will buy it. I
learned from the masters. If you develop software for technical people, it
will be hacked (if its worth it). As far as the porshe, mines in the garage.

Glen Benson


At 05:40 PM 8/27/97 +1000, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1997\08\27@072441 by nvdw

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Glen Benson wrote:
>
> I have software out there for sale, the best advertisement I can get is a
> hacked version. I put one out my self. People will use it over freeware,
> and when the get used to it, and have a little change they will buy it. I
> learned from the masters. If you develop software for technical people, it
> will be hacked (if its worth it). As far as the porshe, mines in the garage.
>
> Glen Benson
>
Is that why the protection is so lame anyway? ;-)

Nic

1997\08\27@141512 by Eric van Es

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Clyde Smith-Stubbs wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 27, 1997 at 08:37:04AM +0200, David BALDWIN wrote:
> ...
> > you can find a forum. For 4 days now, there is a
> > link to a posted soft: cracked Eagle 3.51. It's up to you...
>
> Oh yeah, my neighbour down the road leaves his Porsche parked
> in his driveway unlocked - it's up to you.
>
> --

Yip! I lock my (broken) 1979 VW Golf in the garage. Its up to you... but
you might have to face some violent shotgun action.

If you download the pirate software - you know that it's illegal and
therefore accept the consequences!

So why should all the rightous brother try to castise those who wish to
take the chance.
BTW - I wont.

--
Eric van Es               | Cape Town, South Africa
EraseMEvanesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTilink.nis.za | http://www.nis.za/~vanes
LOOKING FOR TEMPORARY / HOLIDAY ACCOMODATION?
http://www.nis.za/~vanes/accom.htm

1997\08\27@143322 by Martin R. Green

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Eric van Es wrote:

>   If you download the pirate software - you know that it's illegal and
>   therefore accept the consequences!
>
>   So why should all the rightous brother try to castise those who wish to
>   take the chance.
>   BTW - I wont.


All that's required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Martin R. Green
elimarspamspam_OUTbigfoot.com

1997\08\27@145014 by Eric van Es

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Martin R. Green wrote:
>
> Eric van Es wrote:
>
> >   If you download the pirate software - you know that it's illegal and
> >   therefore accept the consequences!
> >
> >   So why should all the rightous brother try to castise those who wish to
> >   take the chance.
> >   BTW - I wont.
>
> All that's required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
>
> Martin R. Green
> @spam@elimarKILLspamspambigfoot.com
Thanks for calling me a good man! Makes my day :-)
What I meant was that I wont download & use the pirate software....
--
Eric van Es               | Cape Town, South Africa
KILLspamvanesKILLspamspamilink.nis.za | http://www.nis.za/~vanes
LOOKING FOR TEMPORARY / HOLIDAY ACCOMODATION?
http://www.nis.za/~vanes/accom.htm

1997\08\27@150214 by Martin R. Green

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Yep, I knew that's what you meant.  What _I_ meant is that those "righteous
brothers" that requested this list remain a pirate free zone are simply
refusing to "do nothing".

CIAO - Martin R. Green
RemoveMEelimarTakeThisOuTspambigfoot.com

----------
From:   Eric van Es[SMTP:spamBeGonevanesspamBeGonespamILINK.NIS.ZA]
Sent:   Wednesday, August 27, 1997 2:50 PM
To:     TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu
Subject:        Re: CAD electronic software

Martin R. Green wrote:
>
> Eric van Es wrote:
>
> >   If you download the pirate software - you know that it's illegal and
> >   therefore accept the consequences!
> >
> >   So why should all the rightous brother try to castise those who wish
to
> >   take the chance.
> >   BTW - I wont.
>
> All that's required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
>
> Martin R. Green
> RemoveMEelimarspamTakeThisOuTbigfoot.com
Thanks for calling me a good man! Makes my day :-)
What I meant was that I wont download & use the pirate software....
--
Eric van Es               | Cape Town, South Africa
vanesEraseMEspam.....ilink.nis.za | http://www.nis.za/~vanes
LOOKING FOR TEMPORARY / HOLIDAY ACCOMODATION?
http://www.nis.za/~vanes/accom.htm

1997\08\27@153219 by Shane Nelson

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On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, Eric van Es wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I didn't think copying software was criminally illegal. ie: You can be
sued for copying it, but not charged with a criminal offense such as
theft. If I'm right (which is open to debate) then comparing it to the
theft of a car isn't appropriate.

It's more like borrowing a friends cassette tape and making a copy for
yourself. Or recording a song off the radio. I'm curious how many people
who are so gung-ho against copying software, have copied audio.

Or went to the library and photocopied a specs sheet, or had one faxed,
when it should have been purchased.

-Shane.

1997\08\27@162116 by Kalle Pihlajasaari

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Hi Shane and anyone else who is interested in a moral viewpoint,

Barely on the PIC topic but has some small relevance to datasheet
copying, printing and code protection.

> > > > link to a posted soft: cracked Eagle 3.51. It's up to you...
> > >
> > > in his driveway unlocked - it's up to you.
> >
> > If you download the pirate software - you know that it's illegal and
> > therefore accept the consequences!
> >
> > So why should all the rightous brother try to castise those who wish to
> > take the chance.

If morality and intelligence did not have a strong natural (BUT NOT
EXCLUSIVE, DON'T BITE MY HEAD OFF) correlation then we as the human
race would indeed have no chance.  If we had in general only intelligent
terrorists and thieves we might as well stop using public transport
and owning personal property.  This is one of the real significant
reasons that I have faith in human nature, we have survived this long.

Without Karma (structured morality) there is very little reason not
to take a chance.

> I didn't think copying software was criminally illegal. ie: You can be
> sued for copying it, but not charged with a criminal offense such as
> theft. If I'm right (which is open to debate) then comparing it to the
> theft of a car isn't appropriate.

Well, I think that when I say this I speak for a fair number of people
on this list, if you get charged with software theft do not pretend
that you even had ignorance on your side.  You certainly do not have
the law on your side even though it is poorly enforced in some places,
some times (China, Russia).

> It's more like borrowing a friends cassette tape and making a copy for
> yourself. Or recording a song off the radio. I'm curious how many people
> who are so gung-ho against copying software, have copied audio.

Equally illegal.  Recording from broadcast mediums such as radio
or television is normally specifically allowed for for personal
use (as it would otherwise in the USA be unenforceable).

I'm sure quite a few of the people who are against copying have
transgressed/infringed/lapsed at some time, I know I have but am
not proud of it and no longer do it.  I don't have any 'gung-ho'
feelings about it as I am also rather against the use of violence
so the expression is rather inaccurate.

> Or went to the library and photocopied a specs sheet, or had one faxed,
> when it should have been purchased.

The OWNER of the copyright decides if it may or may not be copied
without payment of licence/royalty.  Often copying of standards and
sections of books is permited for personal STUDY, making money or using
it in your work is not usually called study.

If someone faxes you something you can only be accessory after the fact.

Microchip for instance specifically copyrights all their data sheets
but this is not intended to minimise their distribution, it is intended
to prevent others from using the work as their own without paying
Microchip if they wanted to be paid.  They specifically reserve all
rights in any event.

I think the real issue lies in whether one believes any value lies
in the code, doccument, song, video, movie, car, whatever.  If there
is some value then it can be stolen.

The PC revolution has made it very easy for people to forget that the
value is not in the media as it has become so easy to duplicate.

Ideas do have value, wait till one of yours is taken and hope the
cost of learning is not as high as the amount of value you have taken
in your life.

I would love to live and work in a world where I did not have to
code protect my PICs but mostly I do because it is the only real
barrier to people stealing a novel idea that may have taken a lot
of time to create.

Cheers
--
Say YES to morals.
--
Kalle Pihlajasaari   EraseMEkallespamip.co.za   http://www.ip.co.za/ip
Interface Products   P O Box 15775, DOORNFONTEIN, 2028, South Africa
+ 27 (11) 402-7750   Fax: 402-7751    http://www.ip.co.za/people/kalle

DonTronics, Silicon Studio and Wirz Electronics uP Product Dealer

1997\08\27@214244 by Gerhard Fiedler

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At 12:38 PM 27-08-97 -0600, Shane Nelson wrote:
>It's more like borrowing a friends cassette tape and making a copy for
>yourself. Or recording a song off the radio. I'm curious how many people
>who are so gung-ho against copying software, have copied audio.

some of them, you bet :-) -- and probably none of these ever spent a
thought on how much work it takes to produce these types of "software".


>Or went to the library and photocopied a specs sheet, or had one faxed,
>when it should have been purchased.

no comment... :-)

good points!

ge

1997\08\28@093852 by mikesmith_oz

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On 27 Aug 97 at 12:38, Shane Nelson wrote:

<snip>

>
> I didn't think copying software was criminally illegal. ie: You can
> be sued for copying it, but not charged with a criminal offense such
> as theft. If I'm right (which is open to debate) then comparing it
> to the theft of a car isn't appropriate.

Morally equivalent.  Whether its a criminal or legal case would
depend on the jurisdiction.

>
> It's more like borrowing a friends cassette tape and making a copy
> for yourself. Or recording a song off the radio. I'm curious how
> many people who are so gung-ho against copying software, have copied
> audio.

That depends on intent.  Cases you describe are illegal.  Copying a
CD you own, for playing in your car cassette, is something I'd be
comfortable with.  After all, I'm only using it in one place at any
one time.  Akin to network software licensing, where you can run a
program on a given number of workstations simultaneously.

>
> Or went to the library and photocopied a specs sheet, or had one
> faxed, when it should have been purchased.
>

Crazy example.  Most manufacturers are *happy* for you to have their
data, and will give you the books, CD's etc.  Do you feel guilty
downloading pdf files?

For some purposes, photocopying copyrighted material is allowed.
Most libraries have a sign describing 'Fair Dealing'
MikeS
<RemoveMEmikesmith_ozEraseMEspamEraseMErelaymail.net>

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