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PICList Thread
'Best way to interface a 12 pos rotary switch'
1999\06\23@104123 by Ross Bencina

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face
Hi PICsters,

I have a 12 position single pole rotary switch that I'd like to interface to
a 16F84 and I don't have 12 spare IO pins ;) (Ideally I'd like to use 4 pins
or less). I've seen examples of using a resistor lader and an RC timer
circuit (uses too much cpu time for my purposes), presumably there's also a
logic chip (demux?) that will do the job, I'm just wondering if I've missed
any other obvious, minimal, and/or clever solutions to this problem.

Thanks in advance.

Ross B.
.................................
http://www.audiomulch.com/~rossb/

1999\06\23@105430 by Max Toole

picon face
In a message dated 6/23/99 9:41:41 AM Central Daylight Time,
spam_OUTrossbTakeThisOuTspamAUDIOMULCH.COM writes:

> I have a 12 position single pole rotary switch that I'd like to interface to
>  a 16F84 and I don't have 12 spare IO pins ;) (Ideally I'd like to use 4
pins
>  or less). I've seen examples of using a resistor lader and an RC timer
>  circuit (uses too much cpu time for my purposes), presumably there's also a
>  logic chip (demux?) that will do the job, I'm just wondering if I've missed
>  any other obvious, minimal, and/or clever solutions to this problem.
>
>  Thanks in advance.
>
>  Ross B.
>  .
I would use a parallel-in, serial-out shift register.

Max

1999\06\23@110442 by John Hansen

picon face
At 12:09 AM 6/24/99 +0930, you wrote:
>Hi PICsters,
>
>I have a 12 position single pole rotary switch that I'd like to interface to
>a 16F84 and I don't have 12 spare IO pins ;) (Ideally I'd like to use 4 pins
>or less). I've seen examples of using a resistor lader and an RC timer
>circuit (uses too much cpu time for my purposes), presumably there's also a
>logic chip (demux?) that will do the job, I'm just wondering if I've missed
>any other obvious, minimal, and/or clever solutions to this problem.

One possibility that I've seen on a number of projects is to use a BCD
switch.  It would use only 4 pins to give you sixteen positions.  They are
available from Digikey.

John Hansen

1999\06\23@130718 by eplus1

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face
External clock pulse -> PIC interrupt pin (call it "count") and to External
4-bit counter chip with 4 to 16 decoder -> each decoded output to one of the
12 pins, and one to a pin (call it "reset") on the PIC (3 left over). Center
tap of the switch to another pin (call it "hold") configured as input. In
the PIC the interrupt routine increases a count when the external clock
counts, resets the count when the "reset" line is high, and transfers the
count to the result when the "hold" line is high.

This is 3 pins + one or two external chips.

Alternatively, the count could originate in the PIC and reset after you get
a "hold" line high, but the external chip and switch has to be able to
handle high speed signal or the routine will take a long time. This would be
3 pins and 1 external chip.

James Newton, webmaster http://get.to/techref
.....jamesnewtonKILLspamspam@spam@geocities.com <jamesnewtonspamKILLspamgeocities.com>
1-619-652-0593 phone



> {Original Message removed}

1999\06\23@133034 by eplus1

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face
Another thought, if you don't mind including 20 little diodes between the 12
switch contact and the 4 pins, is a desecrate 12 to 4 demux. E.g. contact 0
is not connected at all (reading 0000 implies position 0), contact 1 is
connected to pin 0 via a diode (reading 0001 = position 1), contact 2 to pin
1 (always use a diode!) (0010 = 2), contact 3 to pin 0 and 1 (two more
diodes) (0011 = 3) and so on to position 11 which is connected to pins 0,1,
and 3 (1011 = 11).

James Newton, webmaster http://get.to/techref
.....jamesnewtonKILLspamspam.....geocities.com <EraseMEjamesnewtonspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgeocities.com>
1-619-652-0593 phone



> {Original Message removed}

1999\06\23@143726 by Sam S Man

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face
Well, good idea, but try this! It uses only 2 pin and 1# 16-pin IC instead
of 24 (4 to 16 decoder)

Use 12 stage ripple counter. Each of the 12 output connects to the 12
different known position. i.e pos1, pos2.... pos12. The centre tap connects
to PIC pinA via a R1 10K resistor. The same PIC pinA also connects via R2
10K res to the pulse input pin of the ripple counter. PIC pinB simply used
to reset the external ripple counter.

To read the switch position follow the steps below;
1- reset the ripple counter by using PIC pinB (as output)
2- pulse PIC pinA (as output) + delay + read back PIC pinA (as input)
3- repeat 2 until pinA found high. Now the switch position should equal be
to your pulse count. You can do it by decfsz with count preloaded to 12 when
resetting the internal counter and the ripple counter as in step 1.

Thanks to James. It really makes me think quick.

cheers
sam


----- Original Message -----
From: James Newton <eplus1spamspam_OUTSAN.RR.COM>
To: <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: Best way to interface a 12 pos rotary switch


> External clock pulse -> PIC interrupt pin (call it "count") and to
External
> 4-bit counter chip with 4 to 16 decoder -> each decoded output to one of
the
> 12 pins, and one to a pin (call it "reset") on the PIC (3 left over).
Center
> tap of the switch to another pin (call it "hold") configured as input. In
> the PIC the interrupt routine increases a count when the external clock
> counts, resets the count when the "reset" line is high, and transfers the
> count to the result when the "hold" line is high.
>
> This is 3 pins + one or two external chips.
>
> Alternatively, the count could originate in the PIC and reset after you
get
> a "hold" line high, but the external chip and switch has to be able to
> handle high speed signal or the routine will take a long time. This would
be
> 3 pins and 1 external chip.
>
> James Newton, webmaster http://get.to/techref
> KILLspamjamesnewtonKILLspamspamgeocities.com <RemoveMEjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspamgeocities.com>
> 1-619-652-0593 phone
>
>
>
> > {Original Message removed}

1999\06\23@145351 by William K. Borsum

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face
At 10:32 AM 6/23/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Another thought, if you don't mind including 20 little diodes between the 12
>switch contact and the 4 pins, is a desecrate 12 to 4 demux. E.g. contact 0
>is not connected at all (reading 0000 implies position 0), contact 1 is
>connected to pin 0 via a diode (reading 0001 = position 1), contact 2 to pin
>1 (always use a diode!) (0010 = 2), contact 3 to pin 0 and 1 (two more
>diodes) (0011 = 3) and so on to position 11 which is connected to pins 0,1,
>and 3 (1011 = 11).


Please tell me--I'm really curious!  What is a "desecrate" demux?

Perhaps one that has been ex-communicated.

The possible puns are endless.

(sorry for the "wasted" bandwidth--I couldn't resist.)


****************************************************************************
********
All legitimate attachments to this email will be clearly identified in the
text.
William K. Borsum, P.E.
OEM Dataloggers and Instrumentation Systems
<spamBeGoneborsumspamBeGonespamdascor.com> & <http://www.dascor.com>

1999\06\23@145802 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face
YUK!

Try 12 same value resistors, and a cap. Two pins, one to feed the resistor
array, and one to read the cap voltage (just a CMOS input, not A/D)
Take both pins to output, low for a short time.
Take the cap pin to input, no pullup, start counting time
Take the resistor pin to output high.
When the cap pin reads high, stop counting.
The time value will tell you how many resistors are in series.

P1----R1-+-R2-+-R3-+.......R12-+
         The switch connects one of the + symbols to
P2-------------------------+
                                 Cap
                               Ground


If you have the time/inclination add another R in between P2 and the cap,
and use the discharge time to facator out the cap value/tolerance.
Discharge time = RC, and charge time = NRC, so NRC/RC = N, which is the
number of resistors switched into circuit, and therefore the switch
position.

If you want to do it digital, a pair of HC164 shift registers will let you
shift a bit till you see it on the input, with the switch selecting which SR
output is looked at. Literally N clocks = switch position.

Or, use an optical encoder.

1999\06\23@145806 by eplus1

flavicon
face
Ripple counter vs binary with decoder is an excellent idea!

I'm a little concirned about the combining of count and readback... I think
circuit should be direct from pinA to count and then on to center tap via
10k resister so that pic can override the center tap return signal. Also..
you must be very carefull to avoid the return signal pulsing itself away
when you get to the correct pin. Ripple counter must count on rising edge
(standard) and the sequence is:
1. write 0 to pinB
2. pinB is output
3. write 1 to pinB
4. pinB is input (don't write 0 to pinB THEN make pinB input)
5. read pinB

I was also musing about the RC thing, seems like you ought to be able to
setup resistor bridge between each switch positions to gnd and also to next
position and then a cap from center to pic pin and adjust the RC constant
until the readback requires NO delay. Just pulse the ouput pin and then
loop: read pin
       increment counter
       branch to loop if high

and get a count of 12 if in 12th position, 1 if in first, etc... This
requires less expensive external circuit and no additional processor time.

James Newton, webmaster http://get.to/techref
TakeThisOuTjamesnewtonEraseMEspamspam_OUTgeocities.com <RemoveMEjamesnewtonspamTakeThisOuTgeocities.com>
1-619-652-0593 phoneÊ



> {Original Message removed}

1999\06\23@150632 by eplus1

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face
Damn automatic spell check.... Harrrrrumph... mutter, mutter, mutter....

The resister between positions and cap to a SINGLE pic pin (pulse high, read
and count till low) is the best I've heard so far, but it may be hard to
calibrate the timing.

That is a single pic pin, 11 resisters and one cap if anybody is counting.

James Newton, webmaster http://get.to/techref
jamesnewtonEraseMEspam.....geocities.com <EraseMEjamesnewtonspamgeocities.com>
1-619-652-0593 phone



> {Original Message removed}

1999\06\23@180406 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
One pin only (!) low component count solution!!
- And fast, and cheap, and failure detecting, possible to use only two wires (incl power and ground) to a panel daughterboard,  and...
...an I think it will work, too... ;)

Components: 1 IC, 1 diode (might be eliminated), 1 cap, 1-4 resistors (depending on how good you want it)

For phantom feeding (true 2-wire incl power and GND): 1 tantalum cap, 1 1N4148.

(Yes, I really took this on as a challenge)  :)

The solution is based on a HC4017.
It is a 5-stage Johnson counter with decoder, giving ten outputs "Qx" where x=0..9, one high at at time counting 0..9, (wrapping), and also a carry output "Cout" high during counts 0..4, giving us a total 11 outputs to play with.


CIRQUIT:

Connect each output from 4017, Q0 to Q9 and Cout, to one each position (1..11) on the rotary switch. Connect the reminding position (12) to Vss.

Connect the rotor through a 10k resistor to the PIC pin.

Connect the same PIC pin directly to 4017 "-ClockEnable", and tie 4017 Clock high.  (this will make 4017 to advance on falling edge)

Still from the only PIC pin, connect a resistor of 100k to 4017 Reset, and from there to Vss a cap of 10n.  Parallel the resistor with a 1N4148 diode, cathode to PIC.  For less EMI and nicer design I recommend a resistor in series with the diode, 220R to 1k depending of if you want to use the pin for other purposes / want fast discharge, or use ICSP on that pin.


ADDITION:
To detect error when the rotor has no contact with any position:
If possible, enable pullup on the PIC pin, else you need to connect a separate pullup resistor (10k?), preferrable directly from the rotor to Vdd.  This will always pull the PIC input high when set as input.

PROGRAM ROUTINE:

Initialize:
Keep the pin a output high during execution of your other routines.  This will reset the 4017.  Calculate the C and R time on 4017 reset pin accordingly.  Also keep in mind that during execution

Prepare:
Set the pin low, and wait for the C to discharge throught the diode, and its resistor to bring the 4017 safely out of reset, with margin. (a few µs)

Read:
(Read the switch adn advance the 4017)
1) Tristate the pin.  The output will remain low or rise depending on to which position the rotary switch is.  No worry about clocking the 4017; we have set it to advance in *falling* edge.  :)

2) Write high to PIC output latch for later use

3) Wait a few µs for input to stabilize ("goto $+1" make a one instr 2 cycle delay).  Maybe use longer time, if using pullup to detect open connection error.

4) Read the pin.

5) Set the pin as output, (we did set the latch high earlier)

6) then set it low.  This will clock the 4017 (falling edge).  This should be done ASAP, to avoid unneccessarily rising the reset cap voltage by keeping the pin low as much as possible, therefor processing the input after this:

7) Store the read value for later use with table lookup (see below)
(i.e shift into 2 registers)

Execute the read 10 times.  The last time execute only paragraph 1..5, leaving the output high, eventually resetting the 4017 until next time.

Now just look up in the table below to decode :)


TRUTH TABLE:
============
Position  Pin  Stored readings
1          Q0  HLLLLLLLLL
2          Q1  LHLLLLLLLL
3          Q2  LLHLLLLLLL
4          Q3  LLLHLLLLLL
5          Q4  LLLLHLLLLL
6          Q5  LLLLLHLLLL
7          Q6  LLLLLLHLLL
8          Q7  LLLLLLLHLL
9          Q8  LLLLLLLLHL
10         Q9  LLLLLLLLLH
11       Cout  HHHHHLLLLL
12        Vss  LLLLLLLLLL
Open     None  HHHHHHHHHH (error detection, if pullup added as described above)

The open condition may also occour during movement.
Any other input data indicate movement, noise, or error.

The PIC pins can depending on your other needs be chared with other output functions, i.e short clock or latch pulses (just the pin it is low for enough time to pull 4017 to reset)

So... It might be that this rotary switch reader end up using NO extra PIC pin :)

If interrupts need to be enabled during execution of this routine, have them enabled only when PIC pin is low.  (A long time interrupt during pin high would reset the 4017)

The diode and its series resistor might be eliminated if the "prepare" (getting 4017 reset low)  proceeds during as long time as the "initialize", i.e holding pin constant during execution of other routines.

If you can«t buy the 74HC4017, try the CMOS 4017, but then increase all resistors by a factor of about five, and run it five times slower.

DISCLAIMER
1) I«m tired; might be thingking or writing erroneousky...
2) Check component values, especailly if using PIC internal pullup
3) Check reset timing R and C.
4) If long wires, there might be problem with ringing affecting 4017 clock, then decouple it using a R and small C in series to Vss.


Untested, but I see no problems.
Enjoy !
PS  Please tell me when/how it works for anyone who tries it out.
-I wanna know!  DS

Hmmm... Instead of a rotary switch, Using diodes in series with the 4017 Q outputs could make it read buttons or other things.  A one-PIC-pin keyboard!

Using diodes between more than one output of the 4017 and a larger switch make it possible for i.e 20pole rotary switch (whatever use it has)

Ok, diodes make the component count go up, but still only one pin from PIC, and one signal wire to the panel.

To run the panel on only two wires:
put all components in the panel, add a tantalum cap across the 4017 Vdd-Vss, and use a 1N4148 or BAT42 to feed power from the signal line (PIC pin) to the 4017 Vdd.  Then only the signal line and Vss are required!

/Morgan

At 00:09 1999-06-24 +0930, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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1999\06\23@184214 by Harold Hallikainen

picon face
On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:09:00 +0930 Ross Bencina <RemoveMErossbspam_OUTspamKILLspamAUDIOMULCH.COM>
writes:
>Hi PICsters,
>
>I have a 12 position single pole rotary switch that I'd like to
>interface to
>a 16F84 and I don't have 12 spare IO pins ;) (Ideally I'd like to use
>4 pins
>or less). I've seen examples of using a resistor lader and an RC timer
>circuit (uses too much cpu time for my purposes), presumably there's
>also a
>logic chip (demux?) that will do the job, I'm just wondering if I've
>missed
>any other obvious, minimal, and/or clever solutions to this problem.
>
>Thanks in advance.

       I'd probably use the switch to tap off a 12 resistor voltage
divider, then go into a single analog input pin.  However, since the 84
doesn't HAVE an analog input, you'd end up doing A/D with an RC circuit,
as you suggest, then dismiss based on CPU time.  There ARE 15 bit
encoders, but they tend to be pretty big.  Also, this'd use 4 I/O lines.
A 16 bit shift register could bring in 16 lines using 3 I/O pins (data,
clock, load).  You could hang other shift registers on these same lines
for even more I/O.

Harold



Harold Hallikainen
RemoveMEharoldTakeThisOuTspamspamhallikainen.com
Hallikainen & Friends, Inc.
See the FCC Rules at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules and comments filed
in LPFM proceeding at http://hallikainen.com/lpfm

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1999\06\23@185419 by Mike Keitz

picon face
On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:32:22 -0700 James Newton <EraseMEeplus1spamspamspamBeGoneSAN.RR.COM>
writes:
>Another thought, if you don't mind including 20 little diodes between
>the 12
>switch contact and the 4 pins,

That would be my first choice.  One advantage is fast and simple software
(just read the port once).  One possible wiring would be:

       Pins
Pos.    3210
0       ----
1       ---X
2       --X-
3       -X--
4       X---
5       --DD
6       -D-D
7       D--D
8       -DD-
9       D-D-
10      DD--
11      -DDD

( '-' is not connected, 'X' directly connected, 'D' connected through
diode).  The pins would need pull-up or pull-down resistors.  If the
wiring to the swtich is short the built in pull-ups may be sufficient.
By floating the common terminal of the switch, the 4 pins could be shared
for other purposes.  Using diodes for positions 1-4 would make sharing
easier since then the common terminal need only be driven opposite its
usual state to disable the switch.

This arrangement is optimized to use the fewest diodes: 15.  Using more
diodes it would be possible to get a conventional binary code.  A
16-entry table in the PIC could convert any diode code to whatever you
need.

It 's certainly not the only way to do it.  Others have proposed using an
RC timer.  I don't like that too much because the total margin for error
is on the order of 1/12, or less than 10%.  Some sort of auto-calibrating
method would definitely be needed.  A simple timer may work to resolve 6
positions, use another timer for the other 6.  A PIC with A/D could
resolve 12 levels easily.


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1999\06\24@022846 by Sam S Man

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face
Hmm.. yes and thanks for the correction on self pulsing. But I think what
you mean by pinB is actually pinA. We can further reduce the pin usage to 1
only. By adding R, C and D, diode. R2 from pinA to Reset pin of the ripple
counter. Parallel it with 1N4148 diode, cathode to pinA. Then C between GND
and the reset pin. Choose the correct time constant so that it takes longer
time to reset the ripple counter. When done with reading the SW position
leave pinA high to reset the counter and do other routines. The next SW
reading cycle, diode will quickly discharge C. Use the routine as suggested
by James below.

I'd forget about the RC thing method. It take bigger board design space and
more program memory.

The circuit is something like this...


ripple count input
o----------------------------------------o    PIC pinA
           |            |               |
         k|            |               |
          D          R2           R1
         a|            |               |
           |            |               |
o-------o--------              o     SW CT
Reset    |
            |
           C
            |
            |
          GND

I have not tested it but it should work.

sam


----- Original Message -----
From: James Newton <RemoveMEeplus1KILLspamspamSAN.RR.COM>
To: <PICLISTSTOPspamspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 2:59 AM
Subject: Re: Best way to interface a 12 pos rotary switch


Ripple counter vs binary with decoder is an excellent idea!

I'm a little concirned about the combining of count and readback... I think
circuit should be direct from pinA to count and then on to center tap via
10k resister so that pic can override the center tap return signal. Also..
you must be very carefull to avoid the return signal pulsing itself away
when you get to the correct pin. Ripple counter must count on rising edge
(standard) and the sequence is:
1. write 0 to pinB
2. pinB is output
3. write 1 to pinB
4. pinB is input (don't write 0 to pinB THEN make pinB input)
5. read pinB

I was also musing about the RC thing, seems like you ought to be able to
setup resistor bridge between each switch positions to gnd and also to next
position and then a cap from center to pic pin and adjust the RC constant
until the readback requires NO delay. Just pulse the ouput pin and then
loop: read pin
       increment counter
       branch to loop if high

and get a count of 12 if in 12th position, 1 if in first, etc... This
requires less expensive external circuit and no additional processor time.

James Newton, webmaster http://get.to/techref
spamBeGonejamesnewtonSTOPspamspamEraseMEgeocities.com <KILLspamjamesnewtonspamBeGonespamgeocities.com>
1-619-652-0593 phone



> {Original Message removed}

1999\06\24@100026 by John Perkinton

flavicon
face
part 0 1421 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream;I use this circuit in a microphone paging console giving me 31 buttons into
5 lines of an input port. And because it only uses 1n4148 diodes to
multiplex it it costs very little.

I've included a schematic as a wmf file.

It is great for rotary switches, as it has only one common line, unlike most
keypad multiplexing circuits, which scan the keys as rows and columns.
{Original Message removed}

1999\06\24@115428 by Wagner Lipnharski

picon face
I would go for a 12 bits shift register, parallel output.

Probably you should use two 8 bits shift register.

Use just one wire from the PIC to the external circuit.

Once this wire goes pulse down the shift register shift a zero bit
ahead.

The rotary switch selects one of the twelve shift register outputs.

The selected output by the rotary switch has a diode (ored) katode to
the rotary common.

The diode anode goes "ored" to the PIC pin and the shift register clock
input.

Before your PIC pulses down the pin, it reads it to see if it is down or
up.

If the pin is up, the zero bit of the shift register in not the one
selected at the rotaty.

If the pin is down, then it is the selected, so you pulsed the pin the
same number of the position of the rotary switch.

To end the cycle, pulse the rest of the 12 or 13 shifts, so the last one
resets the shift register, in a complete round cycle.

Probably it should be cheapper to use another PIC unit at the rotary
switch side, doing the shift register job... if it would be expensive,
go to a cheapper AT89C2051 for less than $3, flash memory inside and so
on... then it could just keep sending a train of pulses, in the count
equivalent of the rotary position... huh?

Just don't be afraid to use more than one microcontroller. People
usually are.

Wagner Lipnharski.

1999\06\24@203106 by Peter van Hoof

picon face
<x-flowed>A nice way to make a diode matrix like this is to sandwich the diodes
between two pieces of stripline experiment board (diodes standing up and the
strips on both pieces of board 90 degrees rotated)

another idea to make a code like this is to take an old eprom , program it
with your table and hook the address lines up to your switch (dont forget
the output enable line(s))

Peter

EraseMEpvhspamEraseMEvertonet.com
@spam@peter_van_hoof@spam@spamspam_OUThotmail.com
spamBeGonepeter_van_hoofspamKILLspammad.scientist.com


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1999\06\25@050512 by Robert K. Johnson

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At 05:20 PM 6/24/99 -0700, you wrote:
try a 74c154 4 line to 16 line decoder or a cd14514 (hint: use the bit 0
and bit 1 inputs to generate the req'd strobe pulse 4514 only)- requires 4
to 6 pins but 4 to 5 are reusable
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