Searching \ for 'Beginners question on increasing pic internal cloc' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/begin.htm?key=pic
Search entire site for: 'Beginners question on increasing pic internal cloc'.

Truncated match.
PICList Thread
'Beginners question on increasing pic internal cloc'
1998\06\14@215542 by Dominic Gualtieri

flavicon
face
Is there presently anyway I can get a Pic16c54 or any other Pic for that
matter to be able to execute code at 1 nanosecond per instruction? If
not possible with Pics are there any other microcontrollers that can
execute instructions this fast? Thanx in advance for for responding.

Dominic

1998\06\15@111150 by Martin Green

flavicon
face
    To get a PIC to execute 1 instruction per nanosecond you would have to
    clock the device at 4GHz, which is a little on the high side. Perhaps
    a Scenix chip instead?

    (just kidding!)


    CIAO - Martin.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Beginners question on increasing pic internal clock speed
Author:  pic microcontroller discussion list <spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> at
Internet
Date:    6/13/98 12:26 AM


Is there presently anyway I can get a Pic16c54 or any other Pic for that
matter to be able to execute code at 1 nanosecond per instruction? If
not possible with Pics are there any other microcontrollers that can
execute instructions this fast? Thanx in advance for for responding.

Dominic

1998\06\17@183240 by Frank Vorstenbosch

flavicon
picon face
> Is there presently anyway I can get a Pic16c54 or any other Pic for that
> matter to be able to execute code at 1 nanosecond per instruction? If
> not possible with Pics are there any other microcontrollers that can
> execute instructions this fast? Thanx in advance for for responding.

I think the best you can do cheaply nowadays is about 250MIPS in a
microprocessor.  My current favourite is the StrongARM, which will do
internal cycles at 235Mhz, with a bus of up to 66MHz.  This requires
32-bit memory though (ROM and RAM).

Alternatively, you can use programmable logic to build a state machine --
this will go up to the same kind of speed if you've got fast devices.
Using ECL it should be possible to hit 500-600MHz clock rates.  Beyond
that you're talking transmission lines anyway, so you can use transmission
lines as delay elements.  Programmability goes out of the window, of course.

Try to see if the problem you're trying to solve can be approached from
a different angle (massive parallelism, improved algorithms, off-the-shelf
test&measurement kit, etc.).

Frank

1998\06\17@201307 by Thomas McGahee

flavicon
face
You have a better chance of getting a good answer back from members
of the PIC list if you make the problem as specific as possible.
For example, if the person asking the question had said:
"Can I use a PIC to measure a frequency that is greater than 1 Mhz?"
then I could readily give them a number of inexpensive PIC based
solutions. And a few that don't require a PIC at all.

No, you can not "soup up" the PIC to run with a 4 GIGA Hz clock.
That option is out. But as Frank intimates in his response below,
there may well be other things you can do with the PIC to make it
do things that you might *think* you needed a 4 GHz clock to
accomplish. Tell us in general terms at least what you want to
do. If no one here has a PIC way of doing that, then just
maybe some one can aim you in some other direction that *will* work
for you. Or at least you will know right up front that you are
seeking to do the impossible.

Input. We need more input! Otherwise it does not compute!

Fr. Tom McGahee

----------
{Quote hidden}

1998\06\18@004337 by tjaart
flavicon
face
> > Is there presently anyway I can get a Pic16c54 or any other Pic for that
> > matter to be able to execute code at 1 nanosecond per instruction? If
> > not possible with Pics are there any other microcontrollers that can
> > execute instructions this fast? Thanx in advance for for responding.

You are talking about a 1000 Mips micro! If you wanted a PIC torun at that speed, you'd have to
clock it at around 4GHz! If you
find one, get me one too!

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
.....tjaartKILLspamspam.....wasp.co.za

Add your voice !!
Vote at the Great G Com Public Vote. Go to :
http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/gcomvote.html

|--------------------------------------------------|
|                WASP International                |
|R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development|
|--------------------------------------------------|
|SMS EraseME0832123443spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTwasp.co.za  (160 chars max)|
|     http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html     |
|Voice: +27-(0)11-622-8686  Fax: +27-(0)11-622-8973|
|          WGS-84 : 26¡10.52'S 28¡06.19'E          |
|--------------------------------------------------|

1998\06\18@095016 by Will MacGregor

flavicon
face
> Is there presently anyway I can get a Pic16c54 or any other Pic for that
> matter to be able to execute code at 1 nanosecond per instruction?
> If not possible with Pics are there any other microcontrollers that can
> execute instructions this fast? Thanx in advance for for responding.

This would correspond to a clock speed of 4GHz (billion cycles per second),
since all PICs require 4 clock cycles for each instruction cycle.  To the
best of my knowledge, there is no microprocessor on earth that would clock
that fast.

The fastest PICs are rated at a maximum external clock frequency of 33MHz,
or 121ns instruction cycle time.

All PICs can operate on an internal RC oscillator which has a fixed nominal
value of 4MHz, or 1 usec instruction cycle time.

Hope this helps
Will MacGregor
Software Design Engineer
Newbridge Networks Corp.
tel: 613 738-2434
fax: 613 739-8267

1998\06\18@125512 by Dominic Gualtieri

flavicon
face
Thomas McGahee wrote:

{Quote hidden}

 Okay here is why I am looking to get a 1nanosecond clock pulse. My application
is to measure the distance between 2 unknown points ( at most being 500-600 yard
s
apart) using a two-way (round trip) ranging principle based on point source radi
o
systems. This is basically how I want it to work. Transceiver 1 transmits a
signal(pulses), the signal is received at transceiver 2, and after a fixed known
delay , it is re-transmitted back to transceiver 1, is received by  transceiver
1`s receiver and input to a ranging circuit. The ranging circuit measures the ti
me
difference between the original transmission time and the time of reception (les
s
the known fixed delay) , which would be a direct measure of the two-way distance
when multiplied by the speed of light.This is the problem, the speed of light
travels at 186,000 miles per second.That translates into roughly 98,208,000 feet
per second. For an accurate measurement I would need an oscillator( I guess out
of
the question with a pic) that would supply my ranging circuit with a time period
that would translate into approximately 1nanosecond per foot. I would like to us
e
a PIC to do all the conversions( time to feet and/or yards) and drive an LCD
display. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Dominic

1998\06\18@130056 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>This would correspond to a clock speed of 4GHz (billion cycles per second),
>since all PICs require 4 clock cycles for each instruction cycle.  To the
>best of my knowledge, there is no microprocessor on earth that would clock
>that fast.

Chemical computers are claiming that capability.  Just read about it in the
past week off a web-based report, but I emptied the trash bin this morning,
so it was lost.  Try MSNBC and InfoBeat.

Andy


==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\06\18@131333 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Will MacGregor wrote:

> > Is there presently anyway I can get a Pic16c54 or any other Pic for that
> > matter to be able to execute code at 1 nanosecond per instruction?
> > If not possible with Pics are there any other microcontrollers that can
> > execute instructions this fast? Thanx in advance for for responding.
>
> This would correspond to a clock speed of 4GHz (billion cycles per second),
> since all PICs require 4 clock cycles for each instruction cycle.  To the
> best of my knowledge, there is no microprocessor on earth that would clock
> that fast.
>
> The fastest PICs are rated at a maximum external clock frequency of 33MHz,
> or 121ns instruction cycle time.
>


> All PICs can operate on an internal RC oscillator which has a fixed nominal
> value of 4MHz, or 1 usec instruction cycle time.
>

Will, unless there is something major that I have missed on the PIC
datasheets, this is only true on a few of the PICs, like the 12C508/509.
Most of the PICs require an external R and C for RC osc. mode. You could
run it with just the R and use the pin capacitance and the board
capacitance for the C,
but it would be very unstable and vary _GREATLY_ from device to device.


Sean

> Hope this helps
> Will MacGregor
> Software Design Engineer
> Newbridge Networks Corp.
> tel: 613 738-2434
> fax: 613 739-8267
>

1998\06\18@151254 by Will MacGregor

flavicon
face
>Will, unless there is something major that I have missed on the PIC
>datasheets, this is only true on a few of the PICs, like the 12C508/509.
>Most of the PICs require an external R and C for RC osc. mode. You could
>run it with just the R and use the pin capacitance and the board
>capacitance for the C,
>but it would be very unstable and vary _GREATLY_ from device to device.

I stand corrected.  Sorry about that.  The internal RC osc is indeed a
feature which is only available on some of the low-end devices.


Will MacGregor
Software Design Engineer
Newbridge Networks Corp.
tel: 613 738-2434
fax: 613 739-8267

1998\06\18@171940 by wwl

picon face
On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:51:55 -0400, you wrote:

>> Is there presently anyway I can get a Pic16c54 or any other Pic for that
>> matter to be able to execute code at 1 nanosecond per instruction?
>> If not possible with Pics are there any other microcontrollers that can
>> execute instructions this fast? Thanx in advance for for responding.
>
>This would correspond to a clock speed of 4GHz (billion cycles per second),
>since all PICs require 4 clock cycles for each instruction cycle.  To the
>best of my knowledge, there is no microprocessor on earth that would clock
>that fast.
>
>The fastest PICs are rated at a maximum external clock frequency of 33MHz,
>or 121ns instruction cycle time.
The Scenix SX parts are guaranteed at 50MHz and have been run at up to
about 120MHz, and they do 1 instruction per clock, giving 8.3nS per
instruction.  Maybe put one in a freezer & crank up the supply
voltage!
If you really need this sort of speed you should be looking at FPGAs
instead of, or as well as, microcontrollers.
>
>All PICs can operate on an internal RC oscillator which has a fixed nominal
>value of 4MHz, or 1 usec instruction cycle time.
I wish this were true, but  only the 12cxx parts (and I think the new
14 pin devices) have internal RC, others need external R & C and are a
lot less accurate due to stray capacitance and lack of factory
calibration.



    ____                                                           ____
  _/ L_/  Mike Harrison / White Wing Logic / KILLspamwwlKILLspamspamnetcomuk.co.uk  _/ L_/
_/ W_/  Hardware & Software design / PCB Design / Consultancy  _/ W_/
/_W_/  Industrial / Computer Peripherals / Hazardous Area      /_W_/

1998\06\18@182139 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
One of those 533MHz (?) DEC Alphas or even a 400MHz Pentium-II is sort
of mind-bogglingly close to those 1ns/instruction numbers (if only in
a pipelined statistical sort of way.)

BillW

1998\06\19@021345 by tjaart

flavicon
face
Dominic Gualtieri wrote:

>   Okay here is why I am looking to get a 1nanosecond clock pulse. My application
> is to measure the distance between 2 unknown points ( at most being 500-600 yards
> apart) using a two-way (round trip) ranging principle based on point source radio
> systems. This is basically how I want it to work. Transceiver 1 transmits a
> signal(pulses), the signal is received at transceiver 2, and after a fixed known
> delay , it is re-transmitted back to transceiver 1, is received by  transceiver
> 1`s receiver and input to a ranging circuit. The ranging circuit measures the time
> difference between the original transmission time and the time of reception (less
> the known fixed delay) , which would be a direct measure of the two-way distance
> when multiplied by the speed of light.This is the problem, the speed of light
> travels at 186,000 miles per second.That translates into roughly 98,208,000 feet
> per second. For an accurate measurement I would need an oscillator( I guess out of
> the question with a pic) that would supply my ranging circuit with a time period
> that would translate into approximately 1nanosecond per foot. I would like to use
> a PIC to do all the conversions( time to feet and/or yards) and drive an LCD
> display. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Dominic

At the first pulse, you start charging a cap through a current source.At the second pulse you stop.
Measure the voltage.

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
RemoveMEtjaartTakeThisOuTspamwasp.co.za

Add your voice !!
Vote at the Great G Com Public Vote. Go to :
http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/gcomvote.html

|--------------------------------------------------|
|                WASP International                |
|R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development|
|--------------------------------------------------|
|SMS spamBeGone0832123443spamBeGonespamwasp.co.za  (160 chars max)|
|     http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html     |
|Voice: +27-(0)11-622-8686  Fax: +27-(0)11-622-8973|
|          WGS-84 : 26¡10.52'S 28¡06.19'E          |
|--------------------------------------------------|

1998\06\19@063904 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
At 14:00 1998-06-18 PDT, you wrote:
>One of those 533MHz (?) DEC Alphas or even a 400MHz Pentium-II is sort
>of mind-bogglingly close to those 1ns/instruction numbers (if only in
>a pipelined statistical sort of way.)
>
>BillW

But how many clock cycled per instruction do they really execute?

P2 is only 66MHz bus, anyway, right? And 100MHz are coming, but they need
to pass both data and instruction on that bus (unless in internal cache)
/Morgan

/  Morgan Olsson, MORGANS REGLERTEKNIK, SE-277 35 KIVIK, Sweden \
\  TakeThisOuTmrtEraseMEspamspam_OUTiname.com, ph: +46 (0)414 70741; fax +46 (0)414 70331    /

1998\06\19@081432 by Keith Howell

flavicon
face
Frank Vorstenbosch wrote:

> My current favourite is the StrongARM, which will do
> internal cycles at 235Mhz, with a bus of up to 66MHz.

I hear a key part of the DEC Alpha is a 40W
RF transistor just to drive the clock!

ARM have implemented the Amulet microprocessor,
which avoids the problems of getting an RF clock
round an entire chip by using asynchronous logic.

Thus, data flows through it as fast as the signals
can travel in the chip. This varies a little from
one manufacturer's fabrication process to another.

The power and EMI are lowered, because only the silicon
doing any work switches states. If you upgrade to a chip
which can run faster, you don't have to change a clock
crystal.

1998\06\24@071706 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Mark, it sounds like you are describing CHIRP. A long time ago I use to
work with this in airborne RADARs. It was used in a side-looking RADAR on an
RF-4C. Secret `stuff' at the time... That would be one solution and a good
one. In anycase, Dominic is not going to be able to do this in current
digital `main-stream' technology for a 1ns resolution. He's going to have to
use analog with the PIC used for control, processing, driving a display,
and/or communicating with a host platform. Tjaart mentioned charging a cap
but that brings a whole new set of problems. I don't know if Dominic works
for a company with the design tools and the ability to manufacture products
in the 1+ GHZ range.

  If Dominic could provide more details about the target environment,
background `clutter', and why he needs 1ns resolution, maybe we can offer
more help.

BTW, I think you and I have `crossed paths' before. I live just north of you
in Portland and I created and operated the Northwest Amiga Group (NAG) BBS for
6 years. If so, please forgive my memory. I'm lousy with names but I never
forget eyes. I can almost hear Andy Warren saying; "See! If I was that old I
would'nt have any memory!". Just kidding Andy ;-)

  - Tom

At 10:08 PM 6/18/98 -0700, Mark G. Forbes wrote:
>[Dominic explains....]
>"Okay here is why I am looking to get a 1nanosecond clock pulse. My application
>is to measure the distance between 2 unknown points ( at most being 500-600
>yards
>apart) using a two-way (round trip) ranging principle based on point source
>radio
>systems. This is basically how I want it to work. Transceiver 1 transmits a
>signal(pulses), the signal is received at transceiver 2, and after a fixed
known
>delay , it is re-transmitted back to transceiver 1, is received by  transceiver
>1`s receiver and input to a ranging circuit. The ranging circuit measures
>the time
>difference between the original transmission time and the time of reception
>(less
>the known fixed delay) , which would be a direct measure of the two-way
distance
>when multiplied by the speed of light.This is the problem, the speed of light
>travels at 186,000 miles per second.That translates into roughly 98,208,000
feet
>per second. For an accurate measurement I would need an oscillator( I guess
>out of
>the question with a pic) that would supply my ranging circuit with a time
period
{Quote hidden}

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 1998 , 1999 only
- Today
- New search...