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'Batteries'
1997\04\07@151922 by Ed Todd

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We have a project that requires -40 degree (C or F, you choose) operation.
Anyone know of a battery supplier that provides something that works
reliably at that temperature?
 <spam_OUTedtoddTakeThisOuTspamsni.net>    Ed Todd

1997\04\08@033227 by Keith Dowsett

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At 13:18 07/04/97 -0600, you wrote:
>We have a project that requires -40 degree (C or F, you choose) operation.
>Anyone know of a battery supplier that provides something that works
>reliably at that temperature?
>  <.....edtoddKILLspamspam@spam@sni.net>    Ed Todd

How much power do you need? If your power requirements are small there are
quite a lot of lithium/thionyl chloride batteries available. Some are
specified to operate down to -55C (Saft and Crompton both make them).
Lithium/Iron Sulphide batteries will also operate down to -40 and offer
higher peak currents but lower total capacity.

Whichever you choose, remember that the capacity and voltage both drop
dramatically at low temperatures. (I guess you've discovered that already :)

Hope this helps,

Keith.
==========================================================
Keith Dowsett         "Variables won't; constants aren't."

E-mail: kdowsettspamKILLspamrpms.ac.uk
  WWW: http://kd.rpms.ac.uk/index.html

1997\04\21@105758 by Giorgio Alboni

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At 01:18 PM 4/7/97 -0600, you wrote:
>We have a project that requires -40 degree (C or F, you choose) operation.
>Anyone know of a battery supplier that provides something that works
>reliably at that temperature?
>  <.....edtoddKILLspamspam.....sni.net>    Ed Todd
>
>

I found a batteries that can help you: look for Cyclon made by Hawker
Energy Products.
It can operate from -65 C to 65 C.

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1997\04\21@135550 by Luigi Rizzo

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Ciao,

forse per sbaglio, ma hai mandato in giro questa roba, sara` il caso
che cambi la password ?

{Quote hidden}

           ^^^^^^^

       Ciao
       Luigi

-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
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1997\04\24@024905 by Giorgio Alboni

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Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:10:56 +0200
To: pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From: Giorgio Alboni <rac1337EraseMEspam.....racine.ravenna.it>
Subject: Re: Batteries
In-Reply-To: <EraseME199704071917.NAA03625spammailrelay.csn.net>

I found a batteries that can help you: look for Cyclon made by Hawker
Energy Products.
It can operate from -65 C to 65 C.


===================================================
Alboni Giorgio
Faenza (Ra) ITALY
E-Mail: RemoveMErac1337EraseMEspamEraseMEracine.ravenna.it
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/5444
===================================================

At 01:18 PM 4/7/97 -0600, you wrote:
>We have a project that requires -40 degree (C or F, you choose) operation.
>Anyone know of a battery supplier that provides something that works
>reliably at that temperature?
>  <RemoveMEedtoddspam_OUTspamKILLspamsni.net>    Ed Todd
>
>

===================================================
Alboni Giorgio
Faenza (Ra) ITALY
E-Mail: RemoveMErac1337TakeThisOuTspamspamracine.ravenna.it
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/5444
===================================================


'Batteries'
1997\11\25@025518 by Alex I. Torres
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Hi All!

I'm working now at one project, using C73, powered
from Panasonic 3.6V 300mAH NiCd (from cordless phones)
with MAX631 (3.6->5v convretor).
The average current from the battery is 30 mA.
I have LCD display and one free C73's ADC input, and I
want to display the "Low Battary" symbols
in 3 steps : full,middle, low.
Now I connected ADC input to battary, and the problem is
what values a must have as a limit to each step?

Another problem - this project must be as cheaper as
possible, so I need very very simple charger. What happens,
is I use simple AC-powered 12v supply and connect it with
then battery with (how?)mA current source ?

---------------------
 Alex Torres, EraseMEaltorspamspamspamBeGonecook.kharkov.ua
 Kharkov,Ukraine

--- GoldED 2.50.A0531+

1997\11\25@031409 by tjaart

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Alex I. Torres wrote:
>
> Hi All!
>
>  I'm working now at one project, using C73, powered
> from Panasonic 3.6V 300mAH NiCd (from cordless phones)
> with MAX631 (3.6->5v convretor).
>  The average current from the battery is 30 mA.
> I have LCD display and one free C73's ADC input, and I
> want to display the "Low Battary" symbols
> in 3 steps : full,middle, low.
>  Now I connected ADC input to battary, and the problem is
> what values a must have as a limit to each step?
You will have to get the manufacturer's discharge curve for
30mA. Measuring the voltage is not a good indicator, however.

>
>  Another problem - this project must be as cheaper as
> possible, so I need very very simple charger. What happens,
> is I use simple AC-powered 12v supply and connect it with
> then battery with (how?)mA current source ?

There is no easy way. The simplest method would be a constant
current source with a voltage setpoint charge stop. Remember,
however, that you need enough current to overcome the reverse
charge when the battery is flat. This current can also be
enough to overcharge the battery, so a fast charge/trickle
charge works best.

You could do it with a transistor, an opamp, a zener, and a few
resistors.

The easiest way to destroy NiCds is to overcharge them.

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
RemoveMEtjaartKILLspamspamwasp.co.za
_____________________________________________________________
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1997\11\25@152401 by Andrew Mayo
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In order to reliably determine battery life, you really need to be able
to briefly switch a load across the battery which draws a predetermined
current and then measure the battery voltage. Battery manufacturers can
supply voltage/time curves for a given load, if you ask.

{Quote hidden}

1997\11\25@212225 by J Scholz

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The January 1998 issue of Popular Electronics has an article starting on
page
12 that compares 6 brands of  "AA" batteries.

And yes, that is the Jan '98 issue. Received it in the mail today.

Jeff

1997\11\25@234410 by tjaart

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Andrew Mayo wrote:
>
> In order to reliably determine battery life, you really need to be able
> to briefly switch a load across the battery which draws a predetermined
> current and then measure the battery voltage. Battery manufacturers can
> supply voltage/time curves for a given load, if you ask.

This is exactly what we do to determine a 6 cell NiCd pack's state. I
discharge it over a 47E resistor for 10s and measure the voltage under
load.

A few people have asked about good batteries to use lately. A very nice
battery (but a bit expensive) is the Hawker (previously Gates) Cyclon
2V lead acid cells. They combine all the nice features of lead acids
and NiCds.

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
EraseMEtjaartspamEraseMEwasp.co.za
_____________________________________________________________
| WASP International http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html |
|       R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development    |
|   Vehicle tracking | Telemetry systems | GSM data transfer  |
|    Voice : +27-(0)11-622-8686 | Fax : +27-(0)11-622-8973    |
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|_____________________________________________________________|

1997\11\26@234147 by tjaart

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Scott Walsh wrote:
>
>      About putting a known load on the battery ... can you do this while
>      the product that is running from the battery is still working?
>
>      regards,
>      SW.

You could, but not with lead-acids. Also be carefull to not charge
while you discharge. Put your product in a known state so it will
always draw the same current when you test the battery.

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
@spam@tjaart@spam@spamspam_OUTwasp.co.za
_____________________________________________________________
| WASP International http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html |
|       R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development    |
|   Vehicle tracking | Telemetry systems | GSM data transfer  |
|    Voice : +27-(0)11-622-8686 | Fax : +27-(0)11-622-8973    |
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'Batteries'
1997\12\06@003812 by Guy Farebrother
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Pardon me for asking what may be a simple question.

If you discharge the 7.5 V nicads into 47R (160mA) for 10 seconds what
would you expect to see in a good / marginal / bad battery for voltage?
Does the manufacturers data indicate these values? If I had a 12 volt
lead-acid battery at 1AH and I discharged it at X mA would I discharge a 10
AH 12 V lead acid cell at 10X for the same indication of battery condition.
Could I use the PWM O/P (set at 10% or 100%) of a PIC to control the load
via a FET for both of these tests or would I require two separate loads?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Guy

----------
{Quote hidden}

1997\12\07@234508 by tjaart

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Guy Farebrother wrote:
>
> Pardon me for asking what may be a simple question.
>
> If you discharge the 7.5 V nicads into 47R (160mA) for 10 seconds what
> would you expect to see in a good / marginal / bad battery for voltage?
Take the difference as a percentage of the first voltage.
Fully charged batteries will be > 90%
Marginally charged batteries will be > 80%
This will indicate the charge level only. If you want to determine the
state of the battery (good, bad, or ugly), you'll have to charge them
fully before discharging. This will give you an indication of remaining
capacity.

VERY IMPORTANT : Make it impossible for the battery to discharge for
longer than 10s. If your software goes haywire, the resistor will
unsolder itself with disasterous effect (fire & brimstone) !!

> Does the manufacturers data indicate these values?
No - unfortunately not. I think it is for safety reasons (see the
warning above)

> If I had a 12 volt
> lead-acid battery at 1AH and I discharged it at X mA would I discharge a 10
> AH 12 V lead acid cell at 10X for the same indication of battery condition.
> Could I use the PWM O/P (set at 10% or 100%) of a PIC to control the load
> via a FET for both of these tests or would I require two separate loads?
This test will not work for Pb batteries. The internal resistance is a
very poor indication for a Pb cell. The voltage drop vs capacity,
however,
is a lot 'better' than a NiCd for capacity measurement.

Very important : Never let a Pb battery discharge completely - it will
cost you a fortune in replacements. If you absolutely have to, the ONLY
Pb battery in the world that can handle it, is at http://hepi.com

>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
No problem

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
TakeThisOuTtjaartKILLspamspamspamwasp.co.za
_____________________________________________________________
| WASP International http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html |
|       R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development    |
|   Vehicle tracking | Telemetry systems | GSM data transfer  |
|    Voice : +27-(0)11-622-8686 | Fax : +27-(0)11-622-8973    |
|              WGS-84 : 26¡10.52'S 28¡06.19'E                 |
|_____________________________________________________________|

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