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'Basic Stamp divided by four source code'
1999\12\10@115029 by Adam Bryant

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I have been looking at the various projects on the web that implement a
Basic Stamp clone using a 16F84.  The obvious drawback to these is the
limitation of 64 bytes of internal EEPROM on the F84.  It should be an
easy matter to modify one of these projects to use an external EEPROM if
I could find the source code.  Does anyone know of one of these projects
that is public domain and distributes the source code for the F84?  I
could disassemble the code from the provided HEX file, but that may be
illegal? and I don't want to infringe on anyone's intellectual property.
I guess my other option is to re-invent the wheel and create my own Stamp
clone.

Thanks and happy holidays.

Adam Bryant (age 0x23)
spam_OUTadamdbTakeThisOuTspamjuno.com
Parker, CO, USA
Robotics, RC Airplanes, anything using a PIC

___________________________________________________________________
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1999\12\10@130752 by Don McKenzie

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face
Adam Bryant wrote:
>
> I have been looking at the various projects on the web that implement a
> Basic Stamp clone using a 16F84.  The obvious drawback to these is the
> limitation of 64 bytes of internal EEPROM on the F84.  It should be an
> easy matter to modify one of these projects to use an external EEPROM if
> I could find the source code.  Does anyone know of one of these projects
> that is public domain and distributes the source code for the F84?  I
> could disassemble the code from the provided HEX file, but that may be
> illegal? and I don't want to infringe on anyone's intellectual property.
> I guess my other option is to re-invent the wheel and create my own Stamp
> clone.

Stamp like device, hex file for personal use:
http://www.dontronics.com/tiny51.html

Don McKenzie  .....donKILLspamspam@spam@dontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel and PICmicro Hardware and Software
StampStick 32K EEPROM Basic http://www.dontronics.com/tiny51.html

1999\12\10@131217 by Dan Larson

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On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:45:21 -0600, Adam Bryant wrote:

>I have been looking at the various projects on the web that implement a
>Basic Stamp clone using a 16F84.  The obvious drawback to these is the
>limitation of 64 bytes of internal EEPROM on the F84.  It should be an
>easy matter to modify one of these projects to use an external EEPROM

Or an F873 / F874 / F876 / F877 ?

You could make sort of a "super stamp" with one of those
and an external serial EEPROM (or without one; the 876 & 877
have 256 bytes of EEDATA).

>if
>I could find the source code.  Does anyone know of one of these projects
>that is public domain and distributes the source code for the F84?  I
>could disassemble the code from the provided HEX file, but that may be
>illegal? and I don't want to infringe on anyone's intellectual property.
>I guess my other option is to re-invent the wheel and create my own Stamp
>clone.

Surely, if you find out let all of us know.  I looked at the BS/4 project once
but passed it up do to the limitations and lack of source. However, if I could
juice it up a bit myself I might be interested.


Dan

1999\12\11@091258 by Dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,

I am also very interested. I want to stress, hovewer, that this coin has
also an other side: it is the "compiler" (tokenizer) on the PC side, and
the communication to download the tokenized program to the PIC's (or
external) EEPROM memory.

Regards,

Imre


On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Dan Larson wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\12\11@163853 by paulb

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face
Dr. Imre Bartfai wrote:

> I am also very interested. I want to stress, hovewer, that this coin
> has also an other side: it is the "compiler" (tokenizer) on the PC
> side, and the communication to download the tokenized program to the
> PIC's (or external) EEPROM memory.

 The "PIC Interpreters Club" or "High Language Interpreters Club for
Microcontrollers" at www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Cable/7772/
as previously mentioned contains links to a description of the Stamp
token language.

 It is certainly non-trivial!  It actually uses bit-oriented addressing
or in effect, variable-length non-byte-aligned tokens.  This is of
course to obtain the absolute maximum code compaction.  It also means
that the tokens are optimised to the available EEPROM size - it is
necessary to re-compile the whole system to use a larger EEPROM.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\12\12@182054 by Mike M

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Ive been trying to build a basic stamp clone for about a month now.  First i was
working with peoples now im alone and im stuck in a hole.  so if anyone gets an
y source code..pass it on this way

mike

On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:10:31 +0600 Dan Larson <dlarsonspamKILLspamCITILINK.COM> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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1999\12\12@192022 by Keith Causey

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Could we look at what you have so far or are you interested in putting your
work in the public domain?

> Ive been trying to build a basic stamp clone for about a month now.  First
i was working with peoples now im alone and im stuck in a hole.  so if
anyone gets any source code..pass it on this way
>
> mike
>
> On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:10:31 +0600 Dan Larson <.....dlarsonKILLspamspam.....CITILINK.COM>
wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Stamp
> >>clone.
> >
> >Surely, if you find out let all of us know.  I looked at the BS/4 project
once
> >but passed it up do to the limitations and lack of source. However, if I
could
> >juice it up a bit myself I might be interested.
> >
> >
> >Dan
> >
>
> Send someone a cool Dynamitemail flashcard greeting!! And get rewarded.
> GO AHEAD! http://cards.dynamitemail.com/index.php3?rid=fc-41

1999\12\12@231559 by Keith Causey

picon face
I see what you mean. If you make the code compatible with the basic stamp
though, what's to keep you from using their compiler?

{Quote hidden}

projects
> > >that is public domain and distributes the source code for the F84?  I
> > >could disassemble the code from the provided HEX file, but that may be
> > >illegal? and I don't want to infringe on anyone's intellectual
property.
> > >I guess my other option is to re-invent the wheel and create my own
Stamp
> > >clone.
> >
> > Surely, if you find out let all of us know.  I looked at the BS/4
project once
> > but passed it up do to the limitations and lack of source. However, if I
could
> > juice it up a bit myself I might be interested.
> >
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >

1999\12\13@041139 by JP.BROWN

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I would like to know what can be achieved with 64 bytes of program
(token) memory?. I have no first hand-experience of using the Stamp.
Basic being a high level language means you can probably
do a lot more than you could with 64 words of assembler?, anybody like to
comment?.

Another approach would be to use a C (or Basic) compiler (at least one
I know is free) then all you would need is a simple and reliable on board
serial programming circuit to have all the functionality and convenience
of a Stamp plus some extras like interrupts!. The thing you wouldn't have
is the Stamp debug facility.

----- John P.B.

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999, Dr. Imre Bartfaia wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\12\13@042839 by Keith Causey

picon face
Apparently much of the code is not byte wide according to the best account I
have seen on it so far
www.mcmanis.com/~cmcmanis/robotics/stamp-decode.html
The commands being 5 bits wide can be more efficiently stuffed into the tiny
space.

{Quote hidden}

the
> > > >limitation of 64 bytes of internal EEPROM on the F84.  It should be
an
> > > >easy matter to modify one of these projects to use an external EEPROM

1999\12\13@145145 by Adam Bryant

picon face
Thanks to all who have replied so far.

John,
The original Basic Stamp 1 could hold "about" 80 instructions
(instruction length varies depending on the actual instruction) so a BS/4
could hold "about" 20 instructions.  So I think you would be very limited
in what you could do.  Hence, my desire to expand this project to include
an external EEPROM so more instructions can be stored.

My reasoning for wanting a Basic Stamp clone when I am an assembler
proponent:
- No 12v (or is it 14v?) required for programming.
- I'd like to get my 10 year old interested in robotics and he could more
easily program in BASIC than assembler.
- I'd like to eventually be able to program the Stamp clone using a
wireless link (either infrared or RF) and the simple 3 wire Stamp
programming setup should be much easier to accomplish wireless.

My other thoughts about this project:
- I am building a PCB that will take a PIC16F84, crystal, regulator,
25xx160 EEPROM (or similar), and screw terminal blocks for the I/O lines.
That way I can move the entire board from project to project.  I am also
going to include an ICSP header so I can program it in assembler, or load
it with the Stamp code and use it that way.
- It needs to be Stamp compatible so I can use the available BASIC
tokenizer/downloader programs rather than building my own.
- The Dontronics site has all of Scott Edward's Stamp functions in
Microchip assembler format (thanks Tony). One thought is to use these
routines to build a Stamp clone.  The problem here would be to figure out
the downloading command format.
- I'm also considering (as a last resort) disassembling the existing
ST1-64 project and changing the portion of the code that reads and writes
to the internal EEPROM to use an external EEPROM instead.  I am very
reluctant to do so as I feel I may be infringing on someone's
intellectual property.

Thanks,
Adam

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:08:24 +0000 "JP.BROWN" <EraseMEJ.P.Brownspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTBRADFORD.AC.UK>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

Adam Bryant (age 0x23)
adamdbspamspam_OUTjuno.com
Parker, CO, USA
Robotics, RC Airplanes, anything using a PIC

___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
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1999\12\13@151946 by Severson, Rob

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face
Nobody has mentioned the "Picaro" in this discussion.
Take a look at:

http://www.circuitcellar.com/pastissues/Index-frame.htm

look for "picaro". Warning: download the .pdf because the article marked
"viewable" is incorrect.

Have fun!


Robert Severson
Senior Design Engineer

J. Gordon Electronic Design, Inc.
201 85th Ave NW
Minneapolis, MN 55433

Phone:       (612) 786-2405 x136
Fax:         (612) 786-5778
Email:       @spam@seversonKILLspamspamjged.com
Web Page:    http://www.jged.com
USBSIMM:     http://usbsimm.home.att.net

1999\12\13@152156 by Nick Taylor

picon face
Adam ... I've been using the Parallax "Stamps In Class" program to
help my 11 and 12 y.o. sons learn electronics and programming, but
will soon switch them over to NetMedia's BX-24.  It is pin compatible
with the BS-2, but much more capable.  You can use the same development
hardware for both the BS-2 and the BX-24.

Below is a copy of an email from Jack Schoof, the president of
NetMedia ... it looks as though they'll be producing an assembly
language version of the BX-24 ... the AL-24.

====  email from Jack Schoof  ======================================

{Quote hidden}

=====================================================================

They also are planning on releasing an AT90S8535 with the BasicX
operating system on it ... an 8535 programmable in Visual Basic.
  http://www.basicx.com/
  http://www.onelist.com/community/basicx  <-- mailing list

- Nick -

Adam Bryant wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\12\13@153802 by Keith Causey

picon face
Ok - I give up Adam - what is the location on the Dontronics page where this
info resides?


<snip>
> - The Dontronics site has all of Scott Edward's Stamp functions in
> Microchip assembler format (thanks Tony).
<snip>.

1999\12\13@160245 by Adam Bryant

picon face
Keith,

http://www.dontronics.com/convert.html

is the link for the converted routines.  There is a zip file
"seepsbmc.zip" that has the actual routines in assembler and a lengthy
two part web page that shows examples for using the routines.  I haven't
actually used any of them, but from browsing through them, they look
pretty good.

Adam

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:27:18 -0700 Keith Causey <KILLspamffightKILLspamspamGEOCITIES.COM>
writes:
> Ok - I give up Adam - what is the location on the Dontronics page
> where this
> info resides?
>
>
> <snip>
> > - The Dontronics site has all of Scott Edward's Stamp functions in
> > Microchip assembler format (thanks Tony).
> <snip>.

Adam Bryant (age 0x23)
RemoveMEadamdbTakeThisOuTspamjuno.com
Parker, CO, USA
Robotics, RC Airplanes, anything using a PIC

___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
Get your free software today: dl.http://www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

1999\12\13@165856 by Tony Nixon

flavicon
picon face
Adam Bryant wrote:

> - The Dontronics site has all of Scott Edward's Stamp functions in
> Microchip assembler format (thanks Tony). One thought is to use these
> routines to build a Stamp clone.  The problem here would be to figure out
> the downloading command format.

Please be aware that the Parapic converter has changed a bit since Don
put the code changes up on his site and is a bit better than the
original.


--
Best regards

Tony

http://www.picnpoke.com
spamBeGonesalesspamBeGonespampicnpoke.com

1999\12\13@173226 by Don McKenzie

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face
Keith Causey wrote:
>
> Ok - I give up Adam - what is the location on the Dontronics page where this
> info resides?
>
> <snip>
> > - The Dontronics site has all of Scott Edward's Stamp functions in
> > Microchip assembler format (thanks Tony).
> <snip>.

you will find a link from:
http://www.dontronics.com

don't ignore:
http://www.dontronics.com/tiny51.html
if you are going to re-create a stamp.
worth a read.

Don McKenzie  TakeThisOuTdonEraseMEspamspam_OUTdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel and PICmicro Hardware and Software
StampStick 32K EEPROM Basic http://www.dontronics.com/tiny51.html

1999\12\13@174500 by Adam Bryant

picon face
I have looked at Picaro a number of times.  The article does have some
very useful information, but it is not quite what I am looking for.  It
implements yet another variation of assembly language, while I was
looking for BASIC.  The article is definitely worthwhile reading for
anyone interested in implementing their own interpreter on a PIC.

Adam

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:25:15 -0600 "Severson, Rob" <RemoveMEseversonspamTakeThisOuTJGED.COM>
writes:
> Nobody has mentioned the "Picaro" in this discussion.

<snip>

Adam Bryant (age 0x23)
adamdbEraseMEspam.....juno.com
Parker, CO, USA
Robotics, RC Airplanes, anything using a PIC

___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
Get your free software today: dl.http://www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

1999\12\13@193152 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
One possibility that you might consider implementing is a "controller"
that is more specialized than a "real" basic stamp.  For example, I can
envision a "LED Flasher stamp" that has commands specifically aimed at
making the ultimate LED chaser devices.  Shucks, I can envision such a
device as a method of teaching embedded computer programming, with "classes"
going from a simple sequence of patterns and a "speed" dial with "skins"
running on a PC, to intermediate versions where you get PWM brightness
controll and individually specifyable pauses and INPUT.  And of course the
final code would always be downloadable into a toy, hairclip, magic wand,
or whatever...

BillW

1999\12\13@204608 by Mike M

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face
Scott Edward's code examples on Dontronics.com is actually where i first started
.  Occassionaly when im stuck for ideas i check it out for some inspiration but
in my opinion a lot of the code can be made to run much faster.  But it is defi
nitely a great source of information for anyone truly interested in "rolling the
ir own" stamp.  Also the link that everyone has been sending around, so ill put
it here again...

http://www.mcmanis.com/~cmcmanis/robotics/stamp-decode.html

anyone who doesnt want to build their own tokenizer and just use pbasic compiler
or stamp compiler should defintly check the site out.  You notice that the stam
p commands are Bit oriented while harder to code it makes the most compact code
possible.  For now our project is byte oriended, and we admit we coul save half
the space if we did bit oriented but for now its good enough, plus we're using a
32k eeprom for the user code so plenty plenty of space for any of our needs ;)

mike



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1999\12\13@214120 by Keith Causey

picon face
What kind of EEPROM is that Mike? Do you have a URL for a PDF?

<snip>
plus we're using a 32k eeprom for the user code so plenty plenty of space
for any of our needs ;)
<snip>

1999\12\13@234238 by Mike M

flavicon
face
>What kind of EEPROM is that Mike? Do you have a URL for a PDF?

24LC32A  32k eeprom from Microchip.  You can get the pdf at Microchip.com.  Also
anyone who wants real quick way to read the eeprom without spending thier own t
ime coding the timming can check out Peter Andersons web http://www.phanderson.com he h
as routines to randomly read and write to a 24lc32 using 2 pins.  Easily adaptab
le to do seqential read, etc.

mike


>
><snip>
>plus we're using a 32k eeprom for the user code so plenty plenty of space
>for any of our needs ;)
><snip>
>

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1999\12\14@003204 by Keith Causey

picon face
Hello Mike - I hate to bother you for something so trivial but where on the
page did you find this code? I did a search of the entire page and found no
reference to 24lc32. Thanks - Keith

> >What kind of EEPROM is that Mike? Do you have a URL for a PDF?
>
> 24LC32A  32k eeprom from Microchip.  You can get the pdf at Microchip.com.
Also anyone who wants real quick way to read the eeprom without spending
thier own time coding the timming can check out Peter Andersons web
http://www.phanderson.com he has routines to randomly read and write to a 24lc32
using 2 pins.  Easily adaptable to do seqential read, etc.
{Quote hidden}

1999\12\14@010430 by Mike M

flavicon
face
NEVER A BOTHER..Actually i appologize i forgot that the code is directed towards
a 24lc65, wich has the same requirements as the 24lc32 just more space...maybe
you should consider using this device instead....maybe i will for that matter..t
he only reason why i used the lc32 is because i just happen to have one "laying
around".  But anyway Keith, heres the link to it..

http://www.phanderson.com/PIC/16C84/24lc65.html


enything else, ideas, inspirational help ;) feel free to ask.  God knows i would
never have gotten this far without people on the piclist :)

mike


On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:23:16 -0700 Keith Causey <EraseMEffightspamGEOCITIES.COM> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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1999\12\14@025534 by Don McKenzie

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William Chops Westfield wrote:
>
> One possibility that you might consider implementing is a "controller"
> that is more specialized than a "real" basic stamp.  For example, I can
> envision a "LED Flasher stamp" that has commands specifically aimed at
> making the ultimate LED chaser devices.  Shucks, I can envision such a
> device as a method of teaching embedded computer programming, with "classes"
> going from a simple sequence of patterns and a "speed" dial with "skins"

You can make this one into anything:
http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html

just put these thoughts onto paper so to speak in the last few minutes.

Don McKenzie  RemoveMEdonEraseMEspamEraseMEdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel and PICmicro Hardware and Software
StampStick 32K EEPROM Basic http://www.dontronics.com/tiny51.html

1999\12\14@042634 by JP.BROWN

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face
Adam
I guess that means you realy would be limited to very simple test or
control programs.I suppose it could be useful just to try out the Stamp
techniques.  I compiled the Stamp LCD routine (the one in the BS1 manual),
even that was too big to fit in the BSSC 16F84 Stamp clone (it required
75 bytes).

PS. The infrared link (ala Lego Brick) is a great idea!.
-----------John P.B.


On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Adam Bryant wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\12\14@071749 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> Hello Mike - I hate to bother you for something so trivial but where on the
> page did you find this code? I did a search of the entire page and found no
> reference to 24lc32. Thanks - Keith

Here:

http://www.phanderson.com/PIC/16C84/24lc65.html

BAJ

1999\12\14@130942 by Andy Midev

picon face
Hi all interested in ST1-64 project!

In last few days there is a big storm of letters
about extending the ST1-64 or BS/4 projects to
the whole 256 bytes in this mailing list.

So we have to inform all interested about the
development in the BSS Club in this area.

The ST1-64 project was only very fast solution
for very small applications and it is clear that
it cannot be used for serious applications.
The development must be concentratrated to more
much memory and also to other platform.

Currently the BSSClub has a following projects
available:

ST2000 Compiler and Core
------------------------
ST2000 is a multilanguage system. The main language
of this system is a subset of Pascal language, that
is structured and allows easy developing
of applications. The language is provided with a set
of
INPUT/OUTPUT libraries that are very similar to the
libraries of BASIC Stamp I. For BASIC fans there is
a BASIC version that is on the source code level
compatible (with only one exception) with the Basic
Stamp I language syntax and semantics, so old
applications
written in Basic Stamp I could be reused.

The system consists of compiler that is run on PC that

generates the intermediate code and of the core that
is
programmed in the 16F84 chip.

The external program memory is I2C EEPROM memory 24C16
(2KB),
24C64 (8KB), or 24C256 (32KB) that allows large
programs
that suits a lot of applications.
Procedure calling is allowed and number of procedure
calls is not limited to 16 as in Basic Stamp I.

The status of the project is following:
 - the core of the system is completed and almost
fully tested
 - the both compilers are in the phase of finishing
and testing
We suppose that first version will be available during
January.

The way of distribution will be via Internet. Version
with
smaller memory will be free, for larger memory usage
there
will be electronic distribution of keys. The
distributor will
be probbaly DonTronics (if Don will agree).


MONOCHIP Cores
--------------
Except ST2000 system there will be also available
versions
with no external program memory (monochip versions)
for 16F87x
chips and also Atmel AVRs with 256 and 512 bytes of
EEPROM memory.
The method of distribution will be similar.




BSSClub
=======
  BSSClub
  E-mail  : RemoveMEbssclubspam_OUTspamKILLspamgeocities.com
  WWW     :
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Cable/7772/




--- Adam Bryant <RemoveMEadamdbTakeThisOuTspamspamJUNO.COM> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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1999\12\14@150731 by Mike M

flavicon
face
>William Chops Westfield wrote:
>>
>> One possibility that you might consider implementing is a "controller"
>> that is more specialized than a "real" basic stamp.  For example, I can
>> envision a "LED Flasher stamp" that has commands specifically aimed at
>> making the ultimate LED chaser devices.  Shucks, I can envision such a
>> device as a method of teaching embedded computer programming, with "classes"
>> going from a simple sequence of patterns and a "speed" dial with "skins"


Not a bad idea at all.  I can also envision a company like Parallax doing the same thing and charging $40 for each of the different models ;)

mike

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