Searching \ for 'ALL: List admin matters (replies & OT posts)' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=
Search entire site for: 'List admin matters (replies & OT posts)'.

Truncated match.
PICList Thread
'ALL: List admin matters (replies & OT posts)'
2002\09\12@131421 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
Hi folks,

A few things are becoming sufficiently problematic that the other admins
(James, Josh, Herbert) and I feel it necessary to make a couple of
requests.

First off, the number of non-PIC posts is now far exceeding the number of
PIC posts.  There are also a fairly large number of posts tagged as EE
that should probably be either OT or (better yet) left out altogether.
Please bear in mind that this *IS* the PICList, not the "general
discussion list that sometimes has some PIC content".  Please think twice
before making that non-PIC post, then think again.  For one thing, every
post to the list will generate an error message from each subscriber that
is over quota or having some other email problem.  This translates to
literally hundreds of error messages per day.  We are currently working
very hard to reduce this number to avoid getting kicked off MIT's system,
which quite frankly would mean the immediate end of the PICList.  EE and
OT posts are still OK, but please, let's try to improve the
signal-to-noise ratio as much as possible.  And if someone makes an OT
post that you want to discuss further, private email is the way to do it,
not on the list.

Second, when replying to a post, PLEASE TRIM THE ORIGINAL POST.  Leave
just enough to provide context.  I just saw one the had ONE line of reply,
followed by over 150 lines of original posts!!!  The person replying
didn't even trim signatures or the automatic list tags.  This is simply
inconsiderate as well as being a massive waste of bandwidth and server
resources.  If you expect list subscribers to read your post, at least
take the time to edit it to meet commonly accepted standards.  As a rule
of thumb, there should not be more quoted material than original.  Usually
one or two lines of quoted text is enough to let people know what you're
replying to.  In many cases even that is not needed, as there is a subject
line and most people reading your post will have been following the thread
anyway.

Lastly, due to the unusually high number of error messages we're seeing,
the other list admins and I are being a lot less lenient on setting
subscribers to NOMAIL when their ISP or mail server starts bouncing
messages.  If we see messages to you bouncing for several hours, we'll
probably NOMAIL you.  See the web site at http://www.piclist.com for instructions
to set your options back to normal.  Please don't waste our time or yours
complaining about this; dealing with error messages is far more hassle for
us than missing some list posts is for you, trust me.  If you find
yourself suddenly not getting list messages, send an email to:

spam_OUTlistservTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu

with:

SET PICLIST MAIL

in the message body, nothing else.  That will resume delivery if you were
set to NOMAIL by one of the admins.  DO NOT send it to the list or to
piclist-request, that won't work.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation, we all appreciate it.

Dale

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email .....listservKILLspamspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@131421 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
Hi folks,

A few things are becoming sufficiently problematic that the other admins
(James, Josh, Herbert) and I feel it necessary to make a couple of
requests.

First off, the number of non-PIC posts is now far exceeding the number of
PIC posts.  There are also a fairly large number of posts tagged as EE
that should probably be either OT or (better yet) left out altogether.
Please bear in mind that this *IS* the PICList, not the "general
discussion list that sometimes has some PIC content".  Please think twice
before making that non-PIC post, then think again.  For one thing, every
post to the list will generate an error message from each subscriber that
is over quota or having some other email problem.  This translates to
literally hundreds of error messages per day.  We are currently working
very hard to reduce this number to avoid getting kicked off MIT's system,
which quite frankly would mean the immediate end of the PICList.  EE and
OT posts are still OK, but please, let's try to improve the
signal-to-noise ratio as much as possible.  And if someone makes an OT
post that you want to discuss further, private email is the way to do it,
not on the list.

Second, when replying to a post, PLEASE TRIM THE ORIGINAL POST.  Leave
just enough to provide context.  I just saw one the had ONE line of reply,
followed by over 150 lines of original posts!!!  The person replying
didn't even trim signatures or the automatic list tags.  This is simply
inconsiderate as well as being a massive waste of bandwidth and server
resources.  If you expect list subscribers to read your post, at least
take the time to edit it to meet commonly accepted standards.  As a rule
of thumb, there should not be more quoted material than original.  Usually
one or two lines of quoted text is enough to let people know what you're
replying to.  In many cases even that is not needed, as there is a subject
line and most people reading your post will have been following the thread
anyway.

Lastly, due to the unusually high number of error messages we're seeing,
the other list admins and I are being a lot less lenient on setting
subscribers to NOMAIL when their ISP or mail server starts bouncing
messages.  If we see messages to you bouncing for several hours, we'll
probably NOMAIL you.  See the web site at http://www.piclist.com for instructions
to set your options back to normal.  Please don't waste our time or yours
complaining about this; dealing with error messages is far more hassle for
us than missing some list posts is for you, trust me.  If you find
yourself suddenly not getting list messages, send an email to:

listservspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

with:

SET PICLIST MAIL

in the message body, nothing else.  That will resume delivery if you were
set to NOMAIL by one of the admins.  DO NOT send it to the list or to
piclist-request, that won't work.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation, we all appreciate it.

Dale

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email .....listservKILLspamspam.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@133328 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Dale Botkin wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> A few things are becoming sufficiently problematic that the other admins
> (James, Josh, Herbert) and I feel it necessary to make a couple of
> requests.
>
> First off, the number of non-PIC posts is now far exceeding the number of
> PIC posts.  There are also a fairly large number of posts tagged as EE

Gee, I'm not the only one to notice.

Dale,

I'm subscribed to about a dozen lists. The PICList is the only one that
tolerates posts not related to the theme of the list. This was a problem
before the tags were introduced and it's been a problem since the tags
were introduced. Conclusion: tags don't work.

I've attempted to send polite reminders here recently to people who either
inadvertantly or blatantly violated the Tag rule. But I'm not the list
administrator. If you (Dale) want to clean up the PIClist:

 1) Get rid of the tags.
 2) Unsubscribe anyone that blatantly posts non pic related information

The EE stuff is a necessary part of PIC programming and should not be
demarcated. The Physics stuff, while interesting, has nothing to do with
PICs and shouldn't be tolerated.

Scott

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email EraseMElistservspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@133328 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Dale Botkin wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> A few things are becoming sufficiently problematic that the other admins
> (James, Josh, Herbert) and I feel it necessary to make a couple of
> requests.
>
> First off, the number of non-PIC posts is now far exceeding the number of
> PIC posts.  There are also a fairly large number of posts tagged as EE

Gee, I'm not the only one to notice.

Dale,

I'm subscribed to about a dozen lists. The PICList is the only one that
tolerates posts not related to the theme of the list. This was a problem
before the tags were introduced and it's been a problem since the tags
were introduced. Conclusion: tags don't work.

I've attempted to send polite reminders here recently to people who either
inadvertantly or blatantly violated the Tag rule. But I'm not the list
administrator. If you (Dale) want to clean up the PIClist:

 1) Get rid of the tags.
 2) Unsubscribe anyone that blatantly posts non pic related information

The EE stuff is a necessary part of PIC programming and should not be
demarcated. The Physics stuff, while interesting, has nothing to do with
PICs and shouldn't be tolerated.

Scott

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email listservspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@143951 by WEBB,TIM (A-Sonoma,ex1)

flavicon
face
Please keep the tags!!!

I don't want to hear the back ground noise.
I only want to hear what I want to hear.


{Original Message removed}

2002\09\12@143951 by WEBB,TIM (A-Sonoma,ex1)

flavicon
face
Please keep the tags!!!

I don't want to hear the back ground noise.
I only want to hear what I want to hear.


{Original Message removed}

2002\09\12@150700 by Olin Lathrop
face picon face
> Please keep the tags!!!

I agree with you, but you have to TRIM YOUR POSTS!  Dale just got done
reminding people of that, and you go sending a 50 line email message with 4
lines of content.

Dale, I don't know how workable this suggestion is, but would it be possible
for the list server to detect the trailer it automatically adds to the
message in an incoming message?  That would be a guarantee that no trimming
was done at all.  If the list server forced people to trim at least that,
they would (hopefully, maybe) also trim other things.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email @spam@listservKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@150700 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Please keep the tags!!!

I agree with you, but you have to TRIM YOUR POSTS!  Dale just got done
reminding people of that, and you go sending a 50 line email message with 4
lines of content.

Dale, I don't know how workable this suggestion is, but would it be possible
for the list server to detect the trailer it automatically adds to the
message in an incoming message?  That would be a guarantee that no trimming
was done at all.  If the list server forced people to trim at least that,
they would (hopefully, maybe) also trim other things.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email KILLspamlistservKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@152934 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> > Please keep the tags!!!
>
> I agree with you, but you have to TRIM YOUR POSTS!  Dale just got done
> reminding people of that, and you go sending a 50 line email message with 4
> lines of content.
>
> Dale, I don't know how workable this suggestion is, but would it be possible
> for the list server to detect the trailer it automatically adds to the
> message in an incoming message?  That would be a guarantee that no trimming
> was done at all.  If the list server forced people to trim at least that,
> they would (hopefully, maybe) also trim other things.


You and Tim are missing the point. If the PIClist content was moderated,
then there would be no need to introduce the superfluous tags. I think the
evidence is quite clear that the tags do not inhibit or control the
information content. In fact, quite the opposite is true. The tags
accommodate any kind of post. Furthermore, they lower the tolerance of the
subscribers. In the end, the PIClist will degenerate into a newsgroup.
People will stay subscribed because that really good 1 in a 100 post is
too valuable to miss.

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@152934 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> > Please keep the tags!!!
>
> I agree with you, but you have to TRIM YOUR POSTS!  Dale just got done
> reminding people of that, and you go sending a 50 line email message with 4
> lines of content.
>
> Dale, I don't know how workable this suggestion is, but would it be possible
> for the list server to detect the trailer it automatically adds to the
> message in an incoming message?  That would be a guarantee that no trimming
> was done at all.  If the list server forced people to trim at least that,
> they would (hopefully, maybe) also trim other things.


You and Tim are missing the point. If the PIClist content was moderated,
then there would be no need to introduce the superfluous tags. I think the
evidence is quite clear that the tags do not inhibit or control the
information content. In fact, quite the opposite is true. The tags
accommodate any kind of post. Furthermore, they lower the tolerance of the
subscribers. In the end, the PIClist will degenerate into a newsgroup.
People will stay subscribed because that really good 1 in a 100 post is
too valuable to miss.

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email spamBeGonelistservspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@153754 by

flavicon
face
The [OT]: tag clearly says that "of topic" posts
are OK on the PIClist (if you tag them).

The error was when the the [OT]: tag was added
in the first place...

Jan-Erik Söderholm.

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email TakeThisOuTlistservEraseMEspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@153754 by

flavicon
face
The [OT]: tag clearly says that "of topic" posts
are OK on the PIClist (if you tag them).

The error was when the the [OT]: tag was added
in the first place...

Jan-Erik Söderholm.

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistservspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@154423 by Mike Singer

picon face
Scott Dattalo wrote:
> You and Tim are missing the point. If the PIClist
> content was moderated, then there would be no need
> to introduce the superfluous tags...

Could you moderate ~100 postings a day for free,
please.

Mike.

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email listservEraseMEspam.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@154423 by Mike Singer

picon face
Scott Dattalo wrote:
> You and Tim are missing the point. If the PIClist
> content was moderated, then there would be no need
> to introduce the superfluous tags...

Could you moderate ~100 postings a day for free,
please.

Mike.

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email EraseMElistservspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@161005 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Mike Singer wrote:

> Scott Dattalo wrote:
> > You and Tim are missing the point. If the PIClist
> > content was moderated, then there would be no need
> > to introduce the superfluous tags...
>
> Could you moderate ~100 postings a day for free,
> please.

Yes I could. But you wouldn't like it.

Scott

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistservEraseMEspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@161005 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Mike Singer wrote:

> Scott Dattalo wrote:
> > You and Tim are missing the point. If the PIClist
> > content was moderated, then there would be no need
> > to introduce the superfluous tags...
>
> Could you moderate ~100 postings a day for free,
> please.

Yes I could. But you wouldn't like it.

Scott

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistservspam_OUTspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@183152 by John Samperi

picon face
At 10:32 AM 12/09/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>administrator. If you (Dale) want to clean up the PIClist:
>
>  1) Get rid of the tags.


I find that the tags work for me (when I get them right :-).
I only receive messages to the subject I'm interested in leaving out
the vast majority of superflous stuff. It's a pity that a lot of people
use lists such as this as if it was a toy.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                               Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
              11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills NSW 2153
                Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                       Email: RemoveMEsamperiTakeThisOuTspamspamampertronics.com.au
                         Website  http://ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Technical Services   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email EraseMElistservspamspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\12@183152 by John Samperi

picon face
At 10:32 AM 12/09/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>administrator. If you (Dale) want to clean up the PIClist:
>
>  1) Get rid of the tags.


I find that the tags work for me (when I get them right :-).
I only receive messages to the subject I'm interested in leaving out
the vast majority of superflous stuff. It's a pity that a lot of people
use lists such as this as if it was a toy.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                               Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
              11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills NSW 2153
                Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                       Email: RemoveMEsamperiKILLspamspamampertronics.com.au
                         Website  http://ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Technical Services   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email listservSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\13@012827 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
Scott, do I hear you volunteering to moderate the list?  Looking for a
full time job?  8-)

Dale
---
We are Dyslexia of Borg.
Fusistance is retile.
Your ass will be laminated.

On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Scott Dattalo wrote:

> You and Tim are missing the point. If the PIClist content was moderated,
> then there would be no need to introduce the superfluous tags.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestSTOPspamspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@012827 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
Scott, do I hear you volunteering to moderate the list?  Looking for a
full time job?  8-)

Dale
---
We are Dyslexia of Borg.
Fusistance is retile.
Your ass will be laminated.

On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Scott Dattalo wrote:

> You and Tim are missing the point. If the PIClist content was moderated,
> then there would be no need to introduce the superfluous tags.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@014408 by Mike Singer

picon face
Scott Dattalo wrote:
> >
> > Could you moderate ~100 postings a day for free,
> > please.
>
> Yes I could. But you wouldn't like it.
>

Why? Let's try.
I Hope I wouldn't be kicked off without warning.
Does any admin know you could moderate the List
for free?

Mike.
-------
PS: I appreciate greatly your contribution to the List.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@014408 by Mike Singer

picon face
Scott Dattalo wrote:
> >
> > Could you moderate ~100 postings a day for free,
> > please.
>
> Yes I could. But you wouldn't like it.
>

Why? Let's try.
I Hope I wouldn't be kicked off without warning.
Does any admin know you could moderate the List
for free?

Mike.
-------
PS: I appreciate greatly your contribution to the List.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
@spam@piclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@spamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@044137 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> > > Could you moderate ~100 postings a day for free,
> > > please.

> Scott Dattalo wrote:
> > Yes I could. But you wouldn't like it.

>  Why? Let's try.
> I Hope I wouldn't be kicked off without warning.
> Does any admin know you could moderate the List
> for free?

Scott(whose legendary coding capabilities and contributions to the list
leave me in genuine awe)'s idea of moderating an [OT]: thread is to use
nothing but the Del key :-). (As he does not subscribe to the [OT]: thread
he presently doesn't usually comment too much on it.)



           RM

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@044137 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> > > Could you moderate ~100 postings a day for free,
> > > please.

> Scott Dattalo wrote:
> > Yes I could. But you wouldn't like it.

>  Why? Let's try.
> I Hope I wouldn't be kicked off without warning.
> Does any admin know you could moderate the List
> for free?

Scott(whose legendary coding capabilities and contributions to the list
leave me in genuine awe)'s idea of moderating an [OT]: thread is to use
nothing but the Del key :-). (As he does not subscribe to the [OT]: thread
he presently doesn't usually comment too much on it.)



           RM

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
.....piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTspammitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@080610 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Dale Botkin wrote:

> Scott, do I hear you volunteering to moderate the list?  Looking for a
> full time job?  8-)


Dale,

I already have three full time jobs, I'm not sure if I can handle a
fourth! But if I were moderating the list then

 a) [OT]: tags would be eliminated
 b) Anyone posting OT info to the other tags would be unsubscribed.

On-topic info in my opinion includes anything related to PICs or the
usage of PICs.

Some of the current posters will not like my stance on this issue, but
most of the lurkers will.

Scott

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-request.....spamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@080610 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Dale Botkin wrote:

> Scott, do I hear you volunteering to moderate the list?  Looking for a
> full time job?  8-)


Dale,

I already have three full time jobs, I'm not sure if I can handle a
fourth! But if I were moderating the list then

 a) [OT]: tags would be eliminated
 b) Anyone posting OT info to the other tags would be unsubscribed.

On-topic info in my opinion includes anything related to PICs or the
usage of PICs.

Some of the current posters will not like my stance on this issue, but
most of the lurkers will.

Scott

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspamspammitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@084055 by Nelson Hochberg

flavicon
face
Scott,

Would this post be considered OT and would you then unsubscribe yourself?
Doesn't have anything to do with [PIC] or [EE]. :-Q

Nelson

But if I were moderating the list then
>
>   a) [OT]: tags would be eliminated
>   b) Anyone posting OT info to the other tags would be unsubscribed.
>
> On-topic info in my opinion includes anything related to PICs or the
> usage of PICs.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
.....piclist-unsubscribe-requestspamRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@084055 by Nelson Hochberg

flavicon
face
Scott,

Would this post be considered OT and would you then unsubscribe yourself?
Doesn't have anything to do with [PIC] or [EE]. :-Q

Nelson

But if I were moderating the list then
>
>   a) [OT]: tags would be eliminated
>   b) Anyone posting OT info to the other tags would be unsubscribed.
>
> On-topic info in my opinion includes anything related to PICs or the
> usage of PICs.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@094806 by Brandon Fosdick

flavicon
face
Scott Dattalo wrote:

<snipped and trimmed for your bandwidth pleasure>

> You and Tim are missing the point. If the PIClist content was moderated,
> then there would be no need to introduce the superfluous tags. I think the
> evidence is quite clear that the tags do not inhibit or control the
> information content. In fact, quite the opposite is true. The tags
> accommodate any kind of post. Furthermore, they lower the tolerance of the
> subscribers. In the end, the PIClist will degenerate into a newsgroup.
> People will stay subscribed because that really good 1 in a 100 post is
> too valuable to miss.


I've always thought the tags were rather silly myself. It seems to me that the
conventional way to segregate topics on a list is to create another list.

As someone else pointed out, tags are easy to forget or screw up. Tags appear to
be relatively non-common (this is the only list I'm sub'd to that uses them)
which IMO only contributes to forgetfulness. Its much harder to forget to fill
in the address field of a message than it is to forget a subject tag, most mail
clients will complain about not getting an address. Plus, the act of looking up
the address in an address book compels the sender to think about which list the
message is most appropriate for.

I guess someone could complain about having to sub to more than one list, but
its really not hard and conceptually its similar to sub'ing to multiple tags.
The main difference I see is that the current incarnation of tags is opt-out,
whereas separate lists would be opt-in. IMO opt-in would be a better policy.

As an example I'll hold up the FreeBSD project. It has many lists that tend to
have excellent signal to noise ratios. It also has a -chat list dedicated to
things that would probably be tagged [OT]: around here.

Now, with all that said, it occurs to me that since using multiple lists is
common practice there must be a reason why its not done here. Is it a reason
that can be fixed?

BTW, does anyone have any idea how many PIC+EE posts go through in one day? Dale
mentioned that the SNR is getting low, how low?

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@spamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@094806 by Brandon Fosdick

flavicon
face
Scott Dattalo wrote:

<snipped and trimmed for your bandwidth pleasure>

> You and Tim are missing the point. If the PIClist content was moderated,
> then there would be no need to introduce the superfluous tags. I think the
> evidence is quite clear that the tags do not inhibit or control the
> information content. In fact, quite the opposite is true. The tags
> accommodate any kind of post. Furthermore, they lower the tolerance of the
> subscribers. In the end, the PIClist will degenerate into a newsgroup.
> People will stay subscribed because that really good 1 in a 100 post is
> too valuable to miss.


I've always thought the tags were rather silly myself. It seems to me that the
conventional way to segregate topics on a list is to create another list.

As someone else pointed out, tags are easy to forget or screw up. Tags appear to
be relatively non-common (this is the only list I'm sub'd to that uses them)
which IMO only contributes to forgetfulness. Its much harder to forget to fill
in the address field of a message than it is to forget a subject tag, most mail
clients will complain about not getting an address. Plus, the act of looking up
the address in an address book compels the sender to think about which list the
message is most appropriate for.

I guess someone could complain about having to sub to more than one list, but
its really not hard and conceptually its similar to sub'ing to multiple tags.
The main difference I see is that the current incarnation of tags is opt-out,
whereas separate lists would be opt-in. IMO opt-in would be a better policy.

As an example I'll hold up the FreeBSD project. It has many lists that tend to
have excellent signal to noise ratios. It also has a -chat list dedicated to
things that would probably be tagged [OT]: around here.

Now, with all that said, it occurs to me that since using multiple lists is
common practice there must be a reason why its not done here. Is it a reason
that can be fixed?

BTW, does anyone have any idea how many PIC+EE posts go through in one day? Dale
mentioned that the SNR is getting low, how low?

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamspammitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@122714 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
> Dale,
>
> I already have three full time jobs, I'm not sure if I can handle a
> fourth! But if I were moderating the list then
>
>   a) [OT]: tags would be eliminated
>   b) Anyone posting OT info to the other tags would be unsubscribed.
>
> On-topic info in my opinion includes anything related to PICs or the
> usage of PICs.
>
> Some of the current posters will not like my stance on this issue, but
> most of the lurkers will.

       Well, you see, there's the inherant problem. What you consider off topic
differs from what I think is off topic, and both are different from what
Dale considers off topic. While in recent times the number of off topic
posts has become quite large (prompting Dale's message) it, in my opinion,
has been self moderated quite well in the past. I for one think that a brute
force measure such as killfiling "offenders"is overkill. We are all
intelligent people and self restraint is something we are all capable off.
FWIW I consider some of the OT topics in the past to have been very useful,
so outright banning it is something I would certainly be against. Alot of
people say "this is a list about PICs, it should contain nothing else". I
for one disagree, it is human nature to form communities, as such the
PICLIST has become a sort of community. Forcing a community to stay on one
single topic is practically impossible without destroying the community
feel. Just my opinion. TTYL

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspammitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@122714 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
> Dale,
>
> I already have three full time jobs, I'm not sure if I can handle a
> fourth! But if I were moderating the list then
>
>   a) [OT]: tags would be eliminated
>   b) Anyone posting OT info to the other tags would be unsubscribed.
>
> On-topic info in my opinion includes anything related to PICs or the
> usage of PICs.
>
> Some of the current posters will not like my stance on this issue, but
> most of the lurkers will.

       Well, you see, there's the inherant problem. What you consider off topic
differs from what I think is off topic, and both are different from what
Dale considers off topic. While in recent times the number of off topic
posts has become quite large (prompting Dale's message) it, in my opinion,
has been self moderated quite well in the past. I for one think that a brute
force measure such as killfiling "offenders"is overkill. We are all
intelligent people and self restraint is something we are all capable off.
FWIW I consider some of the OT topics in the past to have been very useful,
so outright banning it is something I would certainly be against. Alot of
people say "this is a list about PICs, it should contain nothing else". I
for one disagree, it is human nature to form communities, as such the
PICLIST has become a sort of community. Forcing a community to stay on one
single topic is practically impossible without destroying the community
feel. Just my opinion. TTYL

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@223743 by David & Ann Scott

flavicon
face
Pls count me as one for FOR tags.   My SNR is fine.  Unfortunately I'm tied
up with a cookie-cruncher at the present so all I'm subscribed to is [EE:].
(That's probably most important for me to learn.)  When I get back to PICs -
I'll tune in and catch up on the latest pics/info.  For now, I can
occasionally go in and scan the [PIC:] archives.  Whatever's on the [OT:]
doesn't bother me.

Thanks to the admins!

DS

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
@spam@piclist-unsubscribe-requestRemoveMEspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\13@223743 by David & Ann Scott

flavicon
face
Pls count me as one for FOR tags.   My SNR is fine.  Unfortunately I'm tied
up with a cookie-cruncher at the present so all I'm subscribed to is [EE:].
(That's probably most important for me to learn.)  When I get back to PICs -
I'll tune in and catch up on the latest pics/info.  For now, I can
occasionally go in and scan the [PIC:] archives.  Whatever's on the [OT:]
doesn't bother me.

Thanks to the admins!

DS

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\16@110132 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Scott Dattalo wrote:

> > First off, the number of non-PIC posts is now far exceeding the number of
> > PIC posts.  There are also a fairly large number of posts tagged as EE

> I'm subscribed to about a dozen lists. The PICList is the only one that
> tolerates posts not related to the theme of the list.


Hi Scott, first I have a massive respect for your
"piccability" and the generous way you have helped
myself and so many others. :o)

But i'm not sure your logic here is correct. If you
are "subscribed to about a dozen lists" you shouldn't
penalise others who choose to be subscribed to only
one and appreciate ALL of the Piclist. Your needs
as a multi platform assembler specialist may be less
than typical here?

There is a wonderful level of community and friendship,
(ie people helping each other) here on the Piclist
that is not found on other lists.

> The EE stuff is a necessary part of PIC programming and should not be
> demarcated. The Physics stuff, while interesting, has nothing to do with
> PICs and shouldn't be tolerated.

By your own logic this doesn't work. The general EE
stuff is also covered on your other 11 lists and is
one area I thought you would have chosen to eliminate,
or are you saying the Piclist is a better EE list
than the others? If that is the case then you are
stating that the *non-PIC* EE stuff is one of the
better parts that makes this list? ;o)

Surely rather than change the Piclist to a very narrow
focus "PIC only" list that suits your personal email
needs it would be better to use the tag system so we
can ALL choose the parts of the list that we prefer for
our personal needs?

Sniper or shotgun? Surely the tags allow a superior
"tunable shotgun" approach? I'd even prefer additional
tags like [COMMS] and [RF] to turn off those topics that
i'm not interested in, but heck, we all have delete
keys... :o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\09\16@110132 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Scott Dattalo wrote:

> > First off, the number of non-PIC posts is now far exceeding the number of
> > PIC posts.  There are also a fairly large number of posts tagged as EE

> I'm subscribed to about a dozen lists. The PICList is the only one that
> tolerates posts not related to the theme of the list.


Hi Scott, first I have a massive respect for your
"piccability" and the generous way you have helped
myself and so many others. :o)

But i'm not sure your logic here is correct. If you
are "subscribed to about a dozen lists" you shouldn't
penalise others who choose to be subscribed to only
one and appreciate ALL of the Piclist. Your needs
as a multi platform assembler specialist may be less
than typical here?

There is a wonderful level of community and friendship,
(ie people helping each other) here on the Piclist
that is not found on other lists.

> The EE stuff is a necessary part of PIC programming and should not be
> demarcated. The Physics stuff, while interesting, has nothing to do with
> PICs and shouldn't be tolerated.

By your own logic this doesn't work. The general EE
stuff is also covered on your other 11 lists and is
one area I thought you would have chosen to eliminate,
or are you saying the Piclist is a better EE list
than the others? If that is the case then you are
stating that the *non-PIC* EE stuff is one of the
better parts that makes this list? ;o)

Surely rather than change the Piclist to a very narrow
focus "PIC only" list that suits your personal email
needs it would be better to use the tag system so we
can ALL choose the parts of the list that we prefer for
our personal needs?

Sniper or shotgun? Surely the tags allow a superior
"tunable shotgun" approach? I'd even prefer additional
tags like [COMMS] and [RF] to turn off those topics that
i'm not interested in, but heck, we all have delete
keys... :o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\09\16@122733 by Tim Webb

flavicon
face
I like the idea of adding more tags, but I know some of you may get even more annoyed because there would be even more tags to forget or accidentally use for the wrong topic.

I have one possible solution that would fit my needs and maybe others, but may still not work for everyone...

What it there was a generic web form that could be used for submitting.  This web form would have check boxes on it for selecting the topic and a text windows for entering your subject and text messages or code.  This web form can be book marked in your web browser for easy access.   I'm sure other features could be added too.

With that said, I will quickly hide under my desk.


{Original Message removed}

2002\09\16@122733 by Tim Webb

flavicon
face
I like the idea of adding more tags, but I know some of you may get even more annoyed because there would be even more tags to forget or accidentally use for the wrong topic.

I have one possible solution that would fit my needs and maybe others, but may still not work for everyone...

What it there was a generic web form that could be used for submitting.  This web form would have check boxes on it for selecting the topic and a text windows for entering your subject and text messages or code.  This web form can be book marked in your web browser for easy access.   I'm sure other features could be added too.

With that said, I will quickly hide under my desk.


{Original Message removed}

2002\09\16@124433 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Scott Dattalo wrote:

> How do you know the 11 other lists to which I subscribe?

> When you use a PIC it is typically to interface to some kind of system.
> In the course of development it is difficult to discern system problems
> from PIC problems. All I'm saying is that systems containing PICs should
> in general be fair game discussion on the PIClist.

> mail (most of which has nothing to do with PIC's). The tags don't help
> because a) they're non-standard, b) they don't control the information.
> In the end they encourage a huge volume of information. This in turn
> discourages those who are only interested in PICs.
>
> I'm not trying to change the PIClist to suit my needs. I've been
> subscribed for over 5 years now.


I'd like to publicly apologise to Scott for my
earlier post, it sounded like I was accusing him of
selfishly wanting to crush the list to his own
needs, that was not my intention.

Maybe more of the earlier members should speak up
about what the list is and what it was, ie *should*
be. Like many here I can only speak from recent
times. :o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\09\16@124433 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Scott Dattalo wrote:

> How do you know the 11 other lists to which I subscribe?

> When you use a PIC it is typically to interface to some kind of system.
> In the course of development it is difficult to discern system problems
> from PIC problems. All I'm saying is that systems containing PICs should
> in general be fair game discussion on the PIClist.

> mail (most of which has nothing to do with PIC's). The tags don't help
> because a) they're non-standard, b) they don't control the information.
> In the end they encourage a huge volume of information. This in turn
> discourages those who are only interested in PICs.
>
> I'm not trying to change the PIClist to suit my needs. I've been
> subscribed for over 5 years now.


I'd like to publicly apologise to Scott for my
earlier post, it sounded like I was accusing him of
selfishly wanting to crush the list to his own
needs, that was not my intention.

Maybe more of the earlier members should speak up
about what the list is and what it was, ie *should*
be. Like many here I can only speak from recent
times. :o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\09\16@131903 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Tim Webb wrote:

> What it there was a generic web form that could be used for
> submitting.

I'd never use it...  I like the fact that I can spend an hour or two
reading and replying to PICList posts and never touch the mouse (or the
TAB key, for those who would point out that it is possible to use a
browser without a mouse).

Dale

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\09\16@131903 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Tim Webb wrote:

> What it there was a generic web form that could be used for
> submitting.

I'd never use it...  I like the fact that I can spend an hour or two
reading and replying to PICList posts and never touch the mouse (or the
TAB key, for those who would point out that it is possible to use a
browser without a mouse).

Dale

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\09\16@133702 by Giles Honeycutt

flavicon
face
Tim,
Hey, if not for regular posting, possibly a html form that builds the
subject line and the TO:  and launches your default e-mail client.  This
would be nice to teach new people how to make the TAGs.. and possibly some
people would use it regularly.
I personally hit replay to something that has the correct tag, delete all
content and change the subject and remove the Re:  in order to make a new
message.
If anyone makes the html page, I will be glad to host it.
Best regards,
Giles

{Original Message removed}

2002\09\16@133702 by Giles Honeycutt

flavicon
face
Tim,
Hey, if not for regular posting, possibly a html form that builds the
subject line and the TO:  and launches your default e-mail client.  This
would be nice to teach new people how to make the TAGs.. and possibly some
people would use it regularly.
I personally hit replay to something that has the correct tag, delete all
content and change the subject and remove the Re:  in order to make a new
message.
If anyone makes the html page, I will be glad to host it.
Best regards,
Giles

{Original Message removed}

2002\09\16@155646 by

flavicon
face
Roman Black wrote :
>Maybe more of the earlier members should speak up
>about what the list is and what it was, ie *should*
>be. Like many here I can only speak from recent
>times. :o)
>-Roman

What about one of the latest members :-)

I subscribed a few weeks ago, to a mailing list I then
*thought* was about programming and using PIC processors.

It wasn't just that. Most, but not all, of the EE stuff are
just fine, and some actualy related to PIC's, but why on earth
have a OT topic at all ? I can see that som (most?) of the folks
on the list know each other since many months/years, and that
there might be some topics that are in common interest to those
members, but then we have a kind of "closed" list.

Now, *if* the list should be some kind of "open forum", I *do*
think the concept of "topics" is just fine. But my personal
view is that, on a properly used list, those shouldn't be needed
at all.

Well, I supose my vote doesn't count as high as the votes
from the "inner circle" :-)

Jan-Erik Söderholm

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\09\16@155646 by

flavicon
face
Roman Black wrote :
>Maybe more of the earlier members should speak up
>about what the list is and what it was, ie *should*
>be. Like many here I can only speak from recent
>times. :o)
>-Roman

What about one of the latest members :-)

I subscribed a few weeks ago, to a mailing list I then
*thought* was about programming and using PIC processors.

It wasn't just that. Most, but not all, of the EE stuff are
just fine, and some actualy related to PIC's, but why on earth
have a OT topic at all ? I can see that som (most?) of the folks
on the list know each other since many months/years, and that
there might be some topics that are in common interest to those
members, but then we have a kind of "closed" list.

Now, *if* the list should be some kind of "open forum", I *do*
think the concept of "topics" is just fine. But my personal
view is that, on a properly used list, those shouldn't be needed
at all.

Well, I supose my vote doesn't count as high as the votes
from the "inner circle" :-)

Jan-Erik Söderholm

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\09\17@151310 by llile

flavicon
face
Roman Black wrote :
>Maybe more of the earlier members should speak up
>about what the list is and what it was, ie *should*
>be. Like many here I can only speak from recent
>times. :o)
>-Roman

Roman,

I've been around at least 5 years, so I'll speak up.

Here is what the PIClist is to me:  THis is the most amazing technical
resource I have.  I am in an isolated small town, there are no electronics
engineers anywhere nearby. I can't just holler over the cube wall and ask
Joe "Hey Joe, what is the C syntax for a structure inside a union? How
many Megabytes in a Gigaquad? Do you know a good sorting algorithm in
assember? How does the read-write-modify bug work?"  These are trivial
examples, but often I come up against stumper problems that might take
days to noodle out by myself.

There are several cases where I posted a question about some obscure C
syntax to the PIClist and also to the compiler helpdesk.  The PIClist came
back with three different correct approaches within the hour, and the
compiler company helpdesk came back with one answer (not the best one)
after 48 hours.

The PIClist is a community.  It is a community of sharp-witted, educated,
science aware people who happen to do electronics, drawn from the world
over.  It is a community of people dedicated to helping one aother do
something that is frankly pretty difficult.  All of us have spent hours
trying to get a PIC to just light an LED, and know how frustrating it can
be sometimes, especially at first.  We are dedicated to trying to help
other people along this path, and at the same time getting others' help on
our own stumbling blocks.

So I have a lot of patience when the subjects drift a little off-topic.
Some of those conversations are very fascinating.  I am still following
the antics of Armadillo Aerospace because of an off-topic post on the
PIClist.  This sort of thing ignites the imagination.  I was really glad
to see a post from a New Zealander at just after midnight local time
January 1 2000, saying "The lights are still on, all that Y2K stuff was
just a hoax" as New Zealand happened to be the first landmass of any size
to roll over to 2000.

OK, OK, once a year the Offtopic posts get out of hand, and the S/N ratio
approaches zero.  Yes we do need to rein it in, cut the noise to a dull
roar.  But the good gained out of the PIClist is well worth having to wade
through a few threads about Cows or unsubscribbling.

Moderation (besides there being no-one volunteering for that thankless
task) would kill off the community, IMHO.

I can't thank the list managers enough for contiinuing to make this list
happen.  James, Dale, and et al, my hat's off to you, and I'll hoist a
PIClist mug in your name!

--Lawrence

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email @spam@listservspam_OUTspam.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@151310 by llile

flavicon
face
Roman Black wrote :
>Maybe more of the earlier members should speak up
>about what the list is and what it was, ie *should*
>be. Like many here I can only speak from recent
>times. :o)
>-Roman

Roman,

I've been around at least 5 years, so I'll speak up.

Here is what the PIClist is to me:  THis is the most amazing technical
resource I have.  I am in an isolated small town, there are no electronics
engineers anywhere nearby. I can't just holler over the cube wall and ask
Joe "Hey Joe, what is the C syntax for a structure inside a union? How
many Megabytes in a Gigaquad? Do you know a good sorting algorithm in
assember? How does the read-write-modify bug work?"  These are trivial
examples, but often I come up against stumper problems that might take
days to noodle out by myself.

There are several cases where I posted a question about some obscure C
syntax to the PIClist and also to the compiler helpdesk.  The PIClist came
back with three different correct approaches within the hour, and the
compiler company helpdesk came back with one answer (not the best one)
after 48 hours.

The PIClist is a community.  It is a community of sharp-witted, educated,
science aware people who happen to do electronics, drawn from the world
over.  It is a community of people dedicated to helping one aother do
something that is frankly pretty difficult.  All of us have spent hours
trying to get a PIC to just light an LED, and know how frustrating it can
be sometimes, especially at first.  We are dedicated to trying to help
other people along this path, and at the same time getting others' help on
our own stumbling blocks.

So I have a lot of patience when the subjects drift a little off-topic.
Some of those conversations are very fascinating.  I am still following
the antics of Armadillo Aerospace because of an off-topic post on the
PIClist.  This sort of thing ignites the imagination.  I was really glad
to see a post from a New Zealander at just after midnight local time
January 1 2000, saying "The lights are still on, all that Y2K stuff was
just a hoax" as New Zealand happened to be the first landmass of any size
to roll over to 2000.

OK, OK, once a year the Offtopic posts get out of hand, and the S/N ratio
approaches zero.  Yes we do need to rein it in, cut the noise to a dull
roar.  But the good gained out of the PIClist is well worth having to wade
through a few threads about Cows or unsubscribbling.

Moderation (besides there being no-one volunteering for that thankless
task) would kill off the community, IMHO.

I can't thank the list managers enough for contiinuing to make this list
happen.  James, Dale, and et al, my hat's off to you, and I'll hoist a
PIClist mug in your name!

--Lawrence

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email spamBeGonelistservEraseMEspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@152745 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
I've been around for six years, and Lawrence echoed my thoughts exactly.
Couldn't have been said better.

Immense thanks are owed to the list admins. As I have said on several
occasions before, I consider the amount of true education that I received
from reading and participating in this list to be comparable (if not more)
than I received from my $120,000 four-year EE degree. Part of the reason
for that is that the list was not strictly limited to PICs and topics that
are directly related to them.

Sean

At 02:12 PM 9/17/2002 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

<SNIP>

-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! http://www.netzerolongdistance.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email listservspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@152745 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
I've been around for six years, and Lawrence echoed my thoughts exactly.
Couldn't have been said better.

Immense thanks are owed to the list admins. As I have said on several
occasions before, I consider the amount of true education that I received
from reading and participating in this list to be comparable (if not more)
than I received from my $120,000 four-year EE degree. Part of the reason
for that is that the list was not strictly limited to PICs and topics that
are directly related to them.

Sean

At 02:12 PM 9/17/2002 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

<SNIP>

-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! http://www.netzerolongdistance.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistserv@spam@spamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@182357 by John Samperi

picon face
G'day all

Bringing the thread back to where it started: has anyone
yet received the Admin post to which we are suposed to
respond within 15 days? It was supposed to be send on the
12th if I remember correctly. I haven't received mine yet.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                               Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
              11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills NSW 2153
                Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                       Email: .....samperi@spam@spamEraseMEampertronics.com.au
                         Website  http://ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Technical Services   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email .....listservRemoveMEspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@182357 by John Samperi

picon face
G'day all

Bringing the thread back to where it started: has anyone
yet received the Admin post to which we are suposed to
respond within 15 days? It was supposed to be send on the
12th if I remember correctly. I haven't received mine yet.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                               Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
              11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills NSW 2153
                Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                       Email: .....samperiSTOPspamspam@spam@ampertronics.com.au
                         Website  http://ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Technical Services   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email listservEraseMEspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@184247 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Bringing the thread back to where it started: has anyone
> yet received the Admin post to which we are suposed to
> respond within 15 days? It was supposed to be send on the
> 12th if I remember correctly. I haven't received mine yet.

Yup.  Got it on the day Dale said I would.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistservspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@184247 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Bringing the thread back to where it started: has anyone
> yet received the Admin post to which we are suposed to
> respond within 15 days? It was supposed to be send on the
> 12th if I remember correctly. I haven't received mine yet.

Yup.  Got it on the day Dale said I would.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email spamBeGonelistservKILLspamspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@184457 by wanderyr

flavicon
face
John Samperi wrote:
... has anyone yet received the Admin post to which we are suposed to
respond within 15 days? ...

I didn't get it either, but here's what you need to do:

Send an email to: LISTSERVspam_OUTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
with the subject of: CONFIRM PICLIST

-Jon

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email spamBeGonelistserv@spam@spammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@184457 by wanderyr

flavicon
face
John Samperi wrote:
... has anyone yet received the Admin post to which we are suposed to
respond within 15 days? ...

I didn't get it either, but here's what you need to do:

Send an email to: RemoveMELISTSERVEraseMEspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
with the subject of: CONFIRM PICLIST

-Jon

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email spamBeGonelistservspam_OUTspamRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@184907 by wanderyr

flavicon
face
Oops, dopey me:

I'm not sure if the command should go in the subject or the body...  I put
it in both places, and it worked.

:)  Sorry!


{Original Message removed}

2002\09\17@184907 by wanderyr

flavicon
face
Oops, dopey me:

I'm not sure if the command should go in the subject or the body...  I put
it in both places, and it worked.

:)  Sorry!


{Original Message removed}

2002\09\17@190020 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
I do not believe that will work, the CONFIRM PICLIST must be in the BODY of
the email. TTYL

> John Samperi wrote:
> ... has anyone yet received the Admin post to which we are suposed to
> respond within 15 days? ...
>
> I didn't get it either, but here's what you need to do:
>
> Send an email to: .....LISTSERVspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> with the subject of: CONFIRM PICLIST

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email listservspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@190020 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
I do not believe that will work, the CONFIRM PICLIST must be in the BODY of
the email. TTYL

> John Samperi wrote:
> ... has anyone yet received the Admin post to which we are suposed to
> respond within 15 days? ...
>
> I didn't get it either, but here's what you need to do:
>
> Send an email to: EraseMELISTSERVRemoveMEspamSTOPspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> with the subject of: CONFIRM PICLIST

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistservKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@192909 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Herbert Graf wrote:

> I do not believe that will work, the CONFIRM PICLIST must be in the BODY of
> the email. TTYL

Correct.  It MAY be in the subject line (which the list server will
ignore), but MUST be in the body.

Dale

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email spamBeGonelistservspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\17@192909 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Herbert Graf wrote:

> I do not believe that will work, the CONFIRM PICLIST must be in the BODY of
> the email. TTYL

Correct.  It MAY be in the subject line (which the list server will
ignore), but MUST be in the body.

Dale

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistservspam_OUTspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\09\18@073039 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
I'll second most all that Lawrence said.

> I've been around at least 5 years, so I'll speak up.
> Here is what the PIClist is to me:  ..........



       Russell McMahon

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-requestspamspammitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\18@073039 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
I'll second most all that Lawrence said.

> I've been around at least 5 years, so I'll speak up.
> Here is what the PIClist is to me:  ..........



       Russell McMahon

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spam_OUTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\21@151807 by Brandon Fosdick

flavicon
face
llile@SALTONUSA.COM wrote:
<snip good stuff>

Despite my earlier post about creating seperate lists, I agree with Lawrence.
This list has been an exceptional resource for me, not just for technical stuff
but as a community full of smart people in a dumb world (I'm not trying to
insult anyone, I live in the US so things look more dumb from here, though
sometimes I think it looks the other way around too). The diversity of topics
discussed here, and the people doing the discussing, makes this community very
valuable IMO. I'd like to see it preserved, and improved if possible.

As I sit back and mostly lurk through this thread I've realized that two topics
seem to be getting intertwined that maybe shouldn't be. On the one hand we have
the debate of tag/no-tags/many-lists/one-list, on the other we have the debate
about preserving the diversity of discussion. To me the former is a means of
managing the latter. However, the value that many seem to want to keep, the
diversity of topic, has so far managed to evade all attempts at managing it. As
others have already pointed out, the tags system isn't preventing threads from
wandering OT and many other threads are being mislabelled making the tags
useless or at least irrelevant. I'm thinking that maybe this is a good thing.
Managing/controlling the topics of discussion would effectively kill, or at
least shackle, that which makes this list what it currently is. Is that what we
want to do?

I'm of two minds on that question and it appears that there are plenty of people
here to support the possible answers. There are some who want a PIC/EE only list
and some who want diversity. The form of very loose topic management that we
have now can be seen as a compromise between the two, but IMO its only a
political compromise. The tags make it look like the list is managed to those
who want management, but are largely ineffective for those who don't want
management. I've never liked solutions that only look like they're working. So I
think we need to make a decision: diversity or focus? Then do it. If we want
diversity get rid of the tags and let freedom reign. If we want focus, get rid
of the tags. :) True focus of topic will require something better than tags.

If a decision can't be made, then maybe its time to fork the list, as much as I
hate to say it, and let the focus people go one way and the diverse people go
another. But it occurs to me that there are already other PIC-only lists in
existance. So, split or no, this list is probably best left being diverse since
it already is.

Another point I'd like to make is that while this list may have been started as
PIC/EE-centric it has evolved into something much bigger. Any solution that
stems from this thread should either reflect the list's new nature, or force it
to return to its roots. But maybe you already knew that.

Sorry to be so long winded, what started as a well thought out message turned
into a rambling stream of thought. I do that a lot.

> I can't thank the list managers enough for contiinuing to make this list
> happen.  James, Dale, and et al, my hat's off to you, and I'll hoist a
> PIClist mug in your name!

I'm finding myself with nothing suitable to hoist, where do I get one of those
mugs? Do they come in pints?

And now, as is only fitting for such a rambling message, I'll wander off
topic...Did anyone see Firefly last night? Was it shown outside the US?

-Brandon

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\09\21@151807 by Brandon Fosdick

flavicon
face
llile@SALTONUSA.COM wrote:
<snip good stuff>

Despite my earlier post about creating seperate lists, I agree with Lawrence.
This list has been an exceptional resource for me, not just for technical stuff
but as a community full of smart people in a dumb world (I'm not trying to
insult anyone, I live in the US so things look more dumb from here, though
sometimes I think it looks the other way around too). The diversity of topics
discussed here, and the people doing the discussing, makes this community very
valuable IMO. I'd like to see it preserved, and improved if possible.

As I sit back and mostly lurk through this thread I've realized that two topics
seem to be getting intertwined that maybe shouldn't be. On the one hand we have
the debate of tag/no-tags/many-lists/one-list, on the other we have the debate
about preserving the diversity of discussion. To me the former is a means of
managing the latter. However, the value that many seem to want to keep, the
diversity of topic, has so far managed to evade all attempts at managing it. As
others have already pointed out, the tags system isn't preventing threads from
wandering OT and many other threads are being mislabelled making the tags
useless or at least irrelevant. I'm thinking that maybe this is a good thing.
Managing/controlling the topics of discussion would effectively kill, or at
least shackle, that which makes this list what it currently is. Is that what we
want to do?

I'm of two minds on that question and it appears that there are plenty of people
here to support the possible answers. There are some who want a PIC/EE only list
and some who want diversity. The form of very loose topic management that we
have now can be seen as a compromise between the two, but IMO its only a
political compromise. The tags make it look like the list is managed to those
who want management, but are largely ineffective for those who don't want
management. I've never liked solutions that only look like they're working. So I
think we need to make a decision: diversity or focus? Then do it. If we want
diversity get rid of the tags and let freedom reign. If we want focus, get rid
of the tags. :) True focus of topic will require something better than tags.

If a decision can't be made, then maybe its time to fork the list, as much as I
hate to say it, and let the focus people go one way and the diverse people go
another. But it occurs to me that there are already other PIC-only lists in
existance. So, split or no, this list is probably best left being diverse since
it already is.

Another point I'd like to make is that while this list may have been started as
PIC/EE-centric it has evolved into something much bigger. Any solution that
stems from this thread should either reflect the list's new nature, or force it
to return to its roots. But maybe you already knew that.

Sorry to be so long winded, what started as a well thought out message turned
into a rambling stream of thought. I do that a lot.

> I can't thank the list managers enough for contiinuing to make this list
> happen.  James, Dale, and et al, my hat's off to you, and I'll hoist a
> PIClist mug in your name!

I'm finding myself with nothing suitable to hoist, where do I get one of those
mugs? Do they come in pints?

And now, as is only fitting for such a rambling message, I'll wander off
topic...Did anyone see Firefly last night? Was it shown outside the US?

-Brandon

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\09\23@124059 by Barry Gershenfeld

face picon face
>I'm finding myself with nothing suitable to hoist, where do I get one of those
>mugs? Do they come in pints?

Apparently, they come in "large" :-)

http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=piclist

Barry

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTspammitvma.mit.edu


2002\09\23@124059 by Barry Gershenfeld

face picon face
>I'm finding myself with nothing suitable to hoist, where do I get one of those
>mugs? Do they come in pints?

Apparently, they come in "large" :-)

http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=piclist

Barry

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu


More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2002 , 2003 only
- Today
- New search...