Searching \ for 'A' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=
Search entire site for: 'A'.

No exact or substring matches. trying for part
PICList Thread
'pic learning curve'
1994\01\07@152926 by jory

face picon face
hey shawn,

on the microchip bulletin board, you wrote:

*Can somebody steer me to a book or resource that'll get me started
*in learning assembly code ? I've got all of the PIC tools, chips,
*books and even a hardware design that a PIC will evntually plug
*into. What I'm missing is the specific knowledge about Assembly,
*especially with regard to formatting , etc. I'd hate to burn up
*a bunch of PICs trying to figure out what I'm doing.
*
*Any and all help is certainly appreciated.
*
*Shawn Dienhart
*805 545-4481
*

i am presently in the same position you were in (even have target hardware,
etc), and i was wondering if you could give me a few pointers to overcome
help me climb the learning curve (now that you are a seasoned expert :)

i have tried to familiarize myself with the 16c84 assembly language
(previous experience in c, etc), but i am still confused as to the proper
formatting for assembly (my attempts thus far result in mpalc error
messages)...

i have been trying to write a simple program to turn on and/or blink an led
on portb0 (sort of a pic "hello world" program) and was going to work up to
including use of subroutine calls and implementing the real time counter
and the appnote serial routine...

so, any words o' wisdom or other guidance?

thanks,

jory bell

1994\01\07@161027 by n J Dienhart; 691-4481; Security Shift Supervisor)n/a

flavicon
face
Jory:

I'm glad you sent your message via the Internet, the local connection to the
PIC BBS is no longer working (I don't know why), so I haven't been logging on
there.

Anyway, it appears that you might be at the same juncture I was a few months
ago. I am a long way from really knowing Assembly code or the PIC. However, by
charting a certain goal, I have managed to "pick" up a few things that'd
gotten me started in the right direction. Just as you have noted, I too had
hardware ready and waiting for a PIC to be "plugged in". So, here's what I
did:

1. Sent out as many "help" requests as I could (looks like you have already
started).
2. Sorted out the "help" responses and used the "best qualified" advice.
3. Sought (and got) a lot of help building the application code (Assembly)
that met the needs of my hardware (cuz' I understand the hardware already).
4. Plugged in my PIC programmer to a computer and examined the code with a
simulator (PICSIM), to better understand what was going on in the PIC. This
was probably my biggest learning experience yet.
5. Assembled the code (from ASCII text to the various formats (ASM, BIN,
etc.), and studied what each looks like/is used for, etc.
6. Programmed a PIC (OTP type).
7. Put my hardware on a Proto-Board and plugged in the PIC to simply
"discover" what happens (it worked, mostly).
8. Fooled with the (ASCII) code and re-assembled it until the end result met
my desires (several times through this step).

So that's what I have done. I am not yet comfortable with the
code/programming, but I have learned that pure persistence will make up for a
lot of the programming knowledge I don't already have. As you know, most of
the PIC manuals, etc., look like they're written in some cryptic code. Well,
they are. My initial stumbling blocks were almost too simple for others to
grasp. Things like ....what format is the code supposed to be in when I type
out my program in ASCII text before assembling it, should I used the PIC
code or somebody else's (like Parallax's set of instructions), how do I know
how much code fits into the finite memory space, and so forth. I got answers
to these questions by doing the things noted here.

My "trial and error" has helped me complete my first PIC project. But as I've
said, I had an individual help me put together a relatively complex assembly
program. My next big step (which I'm working on) is to apply what I've learned
to put together another program from ground zero.

Since I'm mostly into hardware, I was a little uncomfortable in using the best
advice I received about programming PICS, "just go for it" (software generally
doesn't make any smoke). Any fatal errors will show up using PICSIM or at the
window of a Volt meter.

Don't hesitate to scratch me back a note whenever you want, we'll both likely
learn something.

Regards,

Shawn Dienhart
spam_OUTSJD2TakeThisOuTspamPGE.COM

805-545-4481

'mac pic develpoment '
1994\01\11@190424 by jory

face picon face
From: Blackbird                                                 Msg#: 13089
 To: Voytovich
 Re: Macintosh versions?
     (Reply to #13026)


There is a very good Macintosh assembler for the PIC called uASM from
Micro Dialects Inc, PO Box 190, Loveland, OH 45140, Ph: 513/271-9100.
It has integrated text editor, assembler, and communications modules.
It assembles code at between 7,500 to  lines per minute, fully supports
macros,
automatic labels, local labels, conditionally assembly, includes to 10
level deep.  The editor supports up to 10 open files at a time, full
search and replace including grep searches,  and file size limited only
by RAM available.  The terminal emulator supports data transfers at up
to 38,400 buad.  We have been using this assembler for over a year now
and have had no problems at all.  MDI is currently working on an upgrade
to support the 16C71, 84, 64, and 17C42.

We also use a programmer from Beradine Products Ltd, PO Box 86757, North
Vancouver, BC CANADA V7L4L3, Ph: 604/988-9853.  Gary Anderson is very
helpful and makes the only RS-232 termial serial port compatible
programmer I know of.  It supports communications up to 38,400 baud,
stand-alone or host operation, and is very inexpensive.  We have also
used this for over a year with no problems.

We use Macintosh for development partly because our application is for
the AppleTalk environment.  However we have found that development in
the Mac environment is much easier and more productive because of the
integration of these products.  The only thing we miss is the capability
to run a simulator or ICE from our Mac.  For those things we must use
our MS-DOS PC.

Good Luck,
Kevin L. Schoen

'pic/mac guy '
1994\01\12@131959 by jory

face picon face
Full Name ....... Kevin L. Schoen
Title ........... Lead Development Engineer
Company ......... Blackbird
Location ........ New Albany, IN        Employees ...... N/A
Business Type ... Microcontrol Manufac  Annual Sales ... $N/a
E-Mail Addresses:
  Compuserve ... .                     MCI Mail ....... .
  The Source ... .                     Dialmail ....... .
  GEnie ........ .                     FidoNetmail .... .
Voice Phone # ... 812/944-0799          Computer Type .. Apple Macintosh
Operating Sys ... Mac System 7          Comm. Program .. Zterm
BBS owned ....... none
BBSs used ....... none
Interests ....... PIC-based microcontroller modules with AppleTalk
communicati
Experience ...... N/a
Applications .... N/a
Languages ....... n/a
Summary: Microcontrollers w/ AppleTalk Comm

'aspic/bbs?'
1994\01\14@181812 by Don Lekei
picon face
Jory,

You obviously got the internet address right. Thank-you for the inquiry.

Yes, ASPIC is shareware and yes I wrote it. Actually the PIC version has
been around for 2 years, and the assembler has been available for other
processors for many years (it's now at version 5.32) but I finally decided
to release it because so many people were frustrated with PICALC (now
MPALC).  ASPIC is currently available only for MS-DOS machines, (although I
do have an OS/2 version in beta).

My BBS has been sporaticly off line (which results in calls being routed
directly to the fax machine) for the last couple of months as I have been
restructuring my system.  Please try again.  If you are using an older, non
MNP modem, or ceartan non-standard modems which support so many protocols
that they time-out before a connection is made, all I can say is keep
trying, they will usually get through eventually.

The files you should get are ASPIC.ZIP and DEMO.ZIP. You're welcome to
brouse and take anything that interests you.

If you find it impossible to connect, drop me a private message on the
Microchip BBS and I will reply with an attached file (please us this only  
as a last resort).

ASPIC can assemble Microchips CODE.  The differences between the assemblers
is in what it does when it compiles.  Although it has a lage selection of
assembler directives to choose from, it compiles 5 to 40 times faster.  It
also follows many industry conventions (eg. postfix (0FEH, 10111010B) or
prefix ($FE, %10111010) notation, makefile compatable output and error
returns, parsable error messages for editors such as Multiedit, Brief or
Winedit which can automatically compile and then goto any lines in any
files with errors).

Some features are:
       - One assembler for 16c5X, 16c7X, 16c8X, 17c42
       - Compatable with PICSIM (MPSIM)
       - Compatable with MAKE, and with auto-error tracking editors
       - Many times faster than PICALC (MPALC)
       - Standard base notation (Intel & Motorola format)
       - CODE and FUNCTION macros
       - Auto register bank management
       - Text/data translation
       - Automaticly generates RETLW tables for text and data tables
       - Built-in version management and assembly control functions
       - user command-line switches

The BBS # is (604) 597-3479 (up to 14400).

Regards,
Don Lekei

'other local pic user from bbs '
1994\01\17@174850 by jory

face picon face
Date: Thursday, August 5, 1993  6:08pm                             /APPLICN
From: Kenmun                                                     Msg#: 7755
 To: ** ALL **
 Re: Help for SHAWN                                              (1 reply)

Shawn Dienhart, are you out there?
I could give you some pointers on assembly language programming.  I'm
not an expert, but I could offer some caveats that could help you out.
Call me if you need to  1-413-684-3155  EST.

Or write:
      Kenneth Pergola
              122 Hemlock Hill
              Dalton, MA  01226-1732


KENMUN          P.S.   Hang in there buddy; it gets easier!

'pic learning curve'
1994\01\18@155016 by n J Dienhart; 691-4481; Security Shift Supervisor)n/a

flavicon
face
Jory:

Glad you got a handle on the radix stuff (cuz' honestly I wouldn't have known
without first looking it up). I think your idea about a PIC.LIST on the
Internet would be outstanding. Every now and then I log onto the Circia(SP?)
Cellar BBS. PICS are often discussed in message threads there and there are a
few files relating to PICS on-line. The BBS is a mega-long distance call for
me  so the opportunity to do much is limited.

I do have full access to the Internet...I'll do some poking around and see if
anything is going on there with the PIC.

Thanks for the note,

Shaw

'aspic/bbs?'
1994\01\27@005307 by Don Lekei

picon face
Yes, Jory,

Your message reached me via internet, although I will reply to the copy on
the microchip BBS because that way it can benifit the most PIC users who
sit on the sidelines and hope that someone will ask their questions for
them!

Sorry, I can't send files via Compuserve, otherwise I would send you a copy
of demo.zip.
You are welcome to get a copy off of my BBS @ (604)597-3479.  In order to
get the most from it I would also suggest ASPIC.ZIP and NDMAKE43,ZIP (the
makefile in DEMO.ZIP has been tested on version 4.3 of NDMAKE, there is
also a newer version on-line.

Regards,

Don


'experimental pic list (5/9/94) '
1994\05\09@122329 by jory
face picon face
A few months back, I solicited interest in an email list covering pic
(uchip) microcontrollers. A fair number of people responded positively.

After much slothage, I finally got something set up: .....picKILLspamspam@spam@figment.mit.edu

A few things:

1. This list could go away at any time.

2. For the time being, please send list addition/removal requests to the
list iteself. Within the week, there should be a separate address to deal
with administrative issues.

3. It may take a few days to get added-to/removed-from the list. Your
patience is appreciated.

4. Please don't widely publicize the list until the
administration/operational details are finalized later this week.


-jory bell



'Getting acquainted'
1994\05\11@093219 by byron

face picon face
Hi, my name is Byron Jeff. I'm a PhD candidate at Georgia Tech and a
Asst. Prof. of Computer Science at Clark Atlanta University in Atlanta.
I think the mailing list is a great idea.

Anyway I just wanted to get the discussion going. After hearing about
the PIC 16C5X parts in Circuit Cellar INK, I quickly made friends with
my local Microchip Representative. I've gotten some samples of the
16C71, 16C54, and later on some 25 Mhz 17C42's.

Unfortunately I've had neither the time or the equipment to exploit
these chips yet.

I have a few areas of interest I'd like to share with you. Feel free to
send mail if you'd like to discuss it.

- Device programmers. Most of the talk on the sci.electronics newsgroup
 has been about a homebrew 16C84 programmer. I can see why most folks
 are attracted to the part because of the EEPROM. But while the PIC
 programmers available are relatively inexpensive, there isn't a cheap
 way to program all the PIC family members and adding up the costs of
 the different programmers can get quit expensive. So in the small
 amount of spare time I have I've been working up a design for a device
 programmer.

 Unfortunately device programmers are usually a catch-22
 situation: the best way to build a device programmer is to start with
 a programmed device. So my first target is going to be the PIC 17C42.
 (BTW DIGI KEY is selling the 17C42 and the new 16C64.) There was an
 article in Electronics NOW for a 16C5X programmer (that used a 17C42)
 and it had a small blurb about a 17C42 programmer (that used a 8749 Intel
 microcontroller). It seemed way too complicated. I'm planning on
 bootstrapping from a PC.

- Languages - I've seen the adds for a C compiler for the PIC 16C5X series.
 Seems like going duck hunting with a bazooka. I'm teaching a class in
 system software development and 2 of the projects are a simple assembler
 and compiler. I've choosen the PIC platform as the target. Unfortunately
 none of my students completed the whole project. But I've been working
 on it the compiler on and off. The language is a simpified C syntax.
 I have the scanner, parser and expression evaluator done. All that's
 left is code generation.

 Because of this class I also have the shell of an assembler. Not that
 PIC assembly is hard to do! I know that Microchip has assemblers for
 their parts but it's MSDOS only and they don't have source available.
 I'm a Linux user myself so DOS based tool have no real use for me.
 In fact the Microchip DOS assemblers crash my Linux DOS emulator.
 For the assembler I'm planning on MICROCHIP format only (no parallax
 meta stuff) and just enough so that the compiler can use it.

 BTW nothing is finished. However I'm hoping to spend some time next
 month finishing up.

- Applications - My main hobby is computer based music. I'm currently
 designing a hardware MIDI sequencer that's going to use PIC's for
 IO processors for devices such as the keyboard/mouse, LCD display,
 and MIDI serial ports. The main processor is a Motorola 68340 board
 I put together last year.

Anyway just wanted to get the ball rolling on the mailing list. Tell us
about what you're trying to do with PIC parts.

Later,

BAJ

'Getting acquainted '
1994\05\11@095743 by John Sevinsky

flavicon
face

>  the different programmers can get quit expensive. So in the small
>  amount of spare time I have I've been working up a design for a device
>  programmer.

Is this device programmer going to plug into the serial or parallel
port of your computer?  It would be nice if it used the serial port,
so those of us with non-IBM-PC computers can use it.  I currently
have this problem with my BASIC Stamp software.  My Amiga's IBM-PC
emulator will run Parallax's editor/downloader software, but it won't
program the Stamp because they do some direct I/O to the parallel
port, and my emulator gets confused.

John

' Date: Wed, 11 May 94 12:54:48 -0400 From: roman'
1994\05\11@125449 by roman

flavicon
face

'stamp mailing list '
1994\05\11@142210 by jory

face picon face
Someone emailed me and pointed out that my previous post neglected to
include the subscription address to the other mailing list (STAMP/PIC):

stamp-requestspamKILLspamdiscus.mil.wi.us

-jory



'Serial Programmers'
1994\05\11@183214 by Don Lekei

picon face
In-Reply-To:  .....jsevinskKILLspamspam.....spd.dsccc.com

> ... It would be nice if it used the serial port,
>  so those of us with non-IBM-PC computers can use it....

I have been using a serial programmer for years which is completely ASCII
controlled and quite portable. It's from Baradine Products in North
Vancouver, BC. And it's not very expensive. It programs EPROMS, EEPROMS,
and microcontrollers including PIC 5X, 7X, 8X, 17c42 (and 6X is comming).
It uses the serial mode for 6x+ parts so you can use it for in-circuit
programming.

I have written a (sorry, DOS) based command line programmer for it (so it
can be used from a makefile) which is available on the MICROCHIP BBS.

Without trying to sound like an ad (I am not in any way connected with
Baradine) they can be contacted at 800-668-7886 (north america) or (604)
988-9853.

Don

'PISstart % serial I/O (mac) '
1994\05\12@124910 by jory

face picon face
ujonsson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ulf Jonsson) write in response to an
earlier post of mine:

-snip-

ulf asks about mac asssembler...

-snip-

Here is some info I had that someone else had given me about mac
developmnt.  The assembler was about $100-150. Note that the programmer is
the same one Don Lekei and I have both mentioned and/or endorsed.

***************************begin insertion ****************************
There is a very good Macintosh assembler for the PIC called uASM from
Micro Dialects Inc, PO Box 190, Loveland, OH 45140, Ph: 513/271-9100.
It has integrated text editor, assembler, and communications modules.
It assembles code at between 7,500 to  lines per minute, fully supports
macros,
automatic labels, local labels, conditionally assembly, includes to 10
level deep.  The editor supports up to 10 open files at a time, full
search and replace including grep searches,  and file size limited only
by RAM available.  The terminal emulator supports data transfers at up
to 38,400 buad.  We have been using this assembler for over a year now
and have had no problems at all.  MDI is currently working on an upgrade
to support the 16C71, 84, 64, and 17C42.

We also use a programmer from Beradine Products Ltd, PO Box 86757, North
Vancouver, BC CANADA V7L4L3, Ph: 604/988-9853.  Gary Anderson is very
helpful and makes the only RS-232 termial serial port compatible
programmer I know of.  It supports communications up to 38,400 baud,
stand-alone or host operation, and is very inexpensive.  We have also
used this for over a year with no problems.

We use Macintosh for development partly because our application is for
the AppleTalk environment.  However we have found that development in
the Mac environment is much easier and more productive because of the
integration of these products.  The only thing we miss is the capability
to run a simulator or ICE from our Mac.  For those things we must use
our MS-DOS PC.
****************************end insertion *****************************

ulf goes on to ask:

>Do you know if the PicStart can be used through the serialport from the mac
>under SoftPC. I will buy one myself on the seminar but i don't know if I
>can use it with the mac or if I need to run to some PC user to burn my
>chips.
>
>Is it possible to play with the BasicStamp from a PC? I think you need a
>paralell port but is there some other way?


The PICstart *CANNOT* be used through the serial port of the mac using
SOFTPC. While the software works fine, uchip uses a completely nonstandard
serial connection which is completely incompatible with the mac's serial
ports. (i know this both from exapnded knowledge from uchip and those who
know a lot about mac serial, and also fro having tried it mayself with
total failure the result)

I know nothing (insert images of colonel klink) about STAMP, perhaps
someone else can help you.


{Quote hidden}

Normal can crystals die somewhere between 5000 and 10000 PSI (pretty
limited/rough data so far, since they worked @ 5000, then we went to 10,000
and the cans crushed... i also don't have long term data).

Oh yeah, the chips themselves will should take that pressure (if my
experience is any measure).


-jory

ps: one cute tidbit from my attempt to hook-up a picstart to mac serial was
that you can get the conversion from mac-->pc serial by opening the
appletalk tool with resedit. in it, there is a pict resource with the
pinout of the mac serial, and how to connect it to a pc serial cable)...



'omission in last msg.'
1994\05\17@002751 by jory

face
flavicon
face
the last message should have directed administrative
matters to:

EraseMEpic-requestspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTfigment.mit.edu

oops,

jory

'pic programmer'
1994\05\17@073043 by 93701195

flavicon
face
help,
       can anyone tell me if it is possible to use the pic16c54/55/56/57
programmer to program the pic16c84 without serious adjustment, if so how.
I know its possible to program the pic16c84 using the rs232 port on the pc
but would prefer not to use this method.
                                       B.barry

1994\05\17@083512 by byron

face picon face
>
> help,
>       can anyone tell me if it is possible to use the pic16c54/55/56/57
> programmer to program the pic16c84 without serious adjustment, if so how.
> I know its possible to program the pic16c84 using the rs232 port on the pc
> but would prefer not to use this method.

The chips don't have the same programming setup. The 84 is more like the 71
than the 5X series. There's no easy way to convert a 5X programmer to
program either the 84 or the 71 because the latter two have serial interfaces
and their programming voltage pins are located in a different place.

Later,

BAJ

'Give help to a PIC newcomer!'
1994\05\17@084218 by byron

face picon face
>
> Hi all.
>
> I've been interested in 8051s for ages - but someone recently introduced
> me to the ridiculously cheap DIY PIC16C84 programmers, and Im now a
> total convert...

Most of us are.

>
> Some questions:
>
> The PIC mnemonics, IMHO, are terrible. Is there a 'standard' better
> mnemonic set?

Well parallax has a set of mnemonics that are 8051 based. The two problems
are that you no longer know exactly how long each instruction is and that
you need the parallax assembler.

Personally I find the PIC instruction set very clean and concise. Very good
for compiler writing. A PIC compiler of a language somewhere between C and
BASIC is one of my summer projects.

>
> Are there any example PIC sources available?

Call Microchip or a local rep and ask for the applications notes for the
PIC series. It has dozens of example programs for you to look at. And all
of them are in the original PIC instruction set so you can see how the
set operates.

> Is the serial programming algorithm of the 16C84 the same or similar to
> that of the other two recent PICs (I forget the names - the 33 IO pin
> one, and the one with internal ADC) -

There are two 40 pin chips (17C42 and 16C64). The internal ADC is a 16C71.

> Can I use a similar modified serial programmer to blow these?

The 16C84 and the 16C71 use almost the same serial algorithm.

A good idea is to get the Microchip Microcontroller data book. It has not
only the data sheets for all the parts but the programming algorithms too.
Michchip is just too cool with the way they interact with us hobby
enthusiasts!

Later,

BAJ

'pic programmer'
1994\05\17@095102 by -robotics-research-centre.salford.ac.uk (Ian King)n/a

flavicon
face
> help,
>       can anyone tell me if it is possible to use the pic16c54/55/56/57
> programmer to program the pic16c84 without serious adjustment, if so how.
> I know its possible to program the pic16c84 using the rs232 port on the pc
> but would prefer not to use this method.
>                                       B.barry

I suppose it might depend on the programmer, but the Picstart I have
manages to program 16C84 and 16C71 with no problems.  I have read that
you need the more modern firmware (1.5?) and software (on the ftp sites,
or with current picstarts) in order to correctly program the fuses on the
16C84, but mine had no problems whatsoever.

The ultimate check is the current databook (1993 in the UK ;-) which has the
programming details for the whole range.

=%-)

Ian

p.s. don't you mean the parallel port on the PC?




1994\05\17@095218 by -robotics-research-centre.salford.ac.uk (Ian King)n/a

flavicon
face
> >
> > help,
> >     can anyone tell me if it is possible to use the pic16c54/55/56/57
> > programmer to program the pic16c84 without serious adjustment, if so how.
> > I know its possible to program the pic16c84 using the rs232 port on the pc
> > but would prefer not to use this method.
>
> The chips don't have the same programming setup. The 84 is more like the 71
> than the 5X series. There's no easy way to convert a 5X programmer to
> program either the 84 or the 71 because the latter two have serial interfaces
> and their programming voltage pins are located in a different place.
>
> Later,
>
> BAJ

Not quite as the 84 and 71 have BOTH parallel (like 5X) AND serial interfaces,
like I said (though it isn't back here yet) PICSTART copes quite well, I used it last
night ;-)

=%-)

Ian

p.s. I haven't got my data book here, but don't 16C5X and 16C84/16C71 all use *MCLR as
their Vpp pin, in which case it is on the same pin. (Could be wrong... often am ;-)


1994\05\17@112820 by byron

face picon face
{Quote hidden}

Well now I can actually say something because I have my data book here:

Ian is correct. The *MCLR pin is the same for the 5X/71/84 as is the RB6 and
RB7 pins. But the programmer has to be smart enough to run the serial
algorithm on the 71 and 84 to put it into parallel mode. So if the programmer
is specifically designed for the 5X series, you'll have to change the
program for the board in order to get the 71 and 84 to work.

BAJ

'Give help to a PIC newcomer!'
1994\05\18@163550 by Peter Knight

flavicon
face
On 17 May 1994, Don Lekei wrote:

> It is always better to get used to the manufacturer's mnemonics as any code
> examples or help you get from others is likely to be in that form. A good
> macro assembler will allow you to generalize your code to make it more
> portable.

I take your point as a general idea, but come on - ADDWF f,d where d is
*direction*!!! Whats wrong with ADD f,W / ADD W,f?

Ive programmed Z80, 6502, 8051, 77C82, ARM2, 68000 - and I have to say
that the PIC has the least user friendly mnemonics of the lot.

Still - Im sure I'll get used to them in time...


Peter
-
Peter Knight      Email: p.j.knightspamspam_OUTuk.ac.bradford      Mono: Cathedrow
                                          _  _          _            _
Who says you can't display letters on a 7 |   _| |_ |_  |_| _|  _  _  _|
segment display? OK, so you can't do a W..|_ |_| |_ | | |_ |_| |  |_| _|



'16C84 UK availability'
1994\05\18@164932 by Peter Knight

flavicon
face
Im having severe problems getting hold of the PIC16C84 in the UK - Maplin
dont have any in stock, and reckon the entire UK wont get stock of them
for months.

I take Maplin advice with a pinch of salt - but even Farnell, who I also
tried, were out of stock for 4 weeks at the very least.

Where can I get my hands on a PIC to test my newly assembled programmer?


Peter
-
Peter Knight      Email: @spam@p.j.knightKILLspamspamuk.ac.bradford      Mono: Cathedrow
                                          _  _          _            _
Who says you can't display letters on a 7 |   _| |_ |_  |_| _|  _  _  _|
segment display? OK, so you can't do a W..|_ |_| |_ | | |_ |_| |  |_| _|



'Give help to a PIC newcomer!'
1994\05\19@170303 by Don Lekei

picon face
Tom,
Thanks for the question:
> Tell me more about ASPIC ?
I will try to avoid making it sound like an ad <smile>...

ASPIC is a shareware assembler (reg = $100 CDN ($69 US)) which has been in
use since  late 1991 for PIC and since 1986 for other processors (NEC
78c10, Mitsubishi MELPS 8 and 16 bit).  It is **DESIGNED** for embedded
controler design, so it has som unusual features like character set
translation (eg. for LED, LCD, and On Screen Displays), bit labels,
environment labels, etc.

It is very stable (only 3 bugs reported and fixed in the last 2 years), and
it integrates well with other developement tools. A short list of features
reads something like:

       - One assembler for 16c5X, 16c7X, 16c8X, 17c42
       - Compatable with PICSIM (MPSIM)
       - Compatable with MAKE, and with auto-error tracking editors
       - Many times faster than PICALC (MPALC)
       - Standard base notation (Intel & Motorola format)
       - CODE and FUNCTION macros
       - Auto register bank management
       - Text/data translation
       - Automaticly generates RETLW tables for text and data tables
       - Built-in version management and assembly control functions
       - user command-line switches
       - many other features

(hope that didn't sound too much like an ad, but the shareware license has
an unusual clause absolving those who don't register but only use it for
non-commercial purposes)

I can't ftp from compuserve, but it is available around.  Try microchips
bbs (3rdparty file area) or my BBS @(604) 597-3479.

Cheers,

Don


'New PICs: 16C74 and 17C44 '
1994\05\24@115901 by eric

flavicon
face
I just received confirmation of my registration for the upcoming PIC seminar,
along with a few brochures.

One of the brochures includes some parts I had not previously heard of, the
PIC16C74 and PIC17C44.

The PIC16C74 is apparently sort of an improved combination of the 16C64 and
16C71.  It is available in 40 and 44 pin packages like the 16C64, and has
even more memory (4K*14 program, 192*8 data).  It has an 8-channel 8-bit A/D
(presumably similar to the 4-channel A/D of the 16C71).

I hope the PICSTART-16C will program the 16C74.  I don't want to buy yet
another programmer.  (By the way, does anyone know whether the PICSTART-16B
will program the 16C58A?)

The PIC17C44 appears to be a 17C42 with more memory.  I've never been
convinced that the 17C42 was a very cost effective part, so I doubt that the
17C44 will be either.

Cheers,
Eric

'Give help to a PIC newcomer! '
1994\05\24@121052 by eric

flavicon
face
On 18 May 1994, Peter Knight <KILLspamP.J.KnightKILLspamspambradford.ac.uk> wrote:
> I take your point as a general idea, but come on - ADDWF f,d where d is
> *direction*!!! Whats wrong with ADD f,W / ADD W,f?

I agree with your comments about Microchip's syntax being suboptimal, but
I should point out that the ",d" doesn't specify the direction, it specifies
the destination.  While this may seem like a minor point, consider the
SUBWF instruction:

       SUBWF   FOO,W   ; W := FOO - W

       SUBWF   FOO,F   ; F := FOO - W

While discussing subtract instructions, I should point out that the SUBLW
instruction subtracts the contents of W *FROM* the literal, which is not what
people generally expect.

At first this seemed brain-damaged but then I discovered that it is useful.
If you want to take the two's complement of W, for instance, you can use

       SUBLW   0       ; W := 0 - W

If you want to subtract a literal from W, you can use the ADDLW
instruction with the two's complement of the literal:

       ADDLW   0feh    ; W := W - 2

Some assemblers will let you write this in a natural form:

       ADDLW   -2      ; W := W - 2

Cheers,
Eric

1994\05\24@161102 by Peter Knight

flavicon
face
On Tue, 24 May 1994, Eric Smith wrote:

> On 18 May 1994, Peter Knight <RemoveMEP.J.KnightTakeThisOuTspambradford.ac.uk> wrote:
> > I take your point as a general idea, but come on - ADDWF f,d where d is
> > *direction*!!! Whats wrong with ADD f,W / ADD W,f?
>
> I agree with your comments about Microchip's syntax being suboptimal, but
> I should point out that the ",d" doesn't specify the direction, it specifies
> the destination.  While this may seem like a minor point, consider the
> SUBWF instruction:

OK - my mistake - I did mean destination...

Thanks for the hint on SUBLW - I missed that subtle point!

Peter
-
Peter Knight      Email: spamBeGonep.j.knightspamBeGonespamuk.ac.bradford      Mono: Cathedrow
                                          _  _          _            _
Who says you can't display letters on a 7 |   _| |_ |_  |_| _|  _  _  _|
segment display? OK, so you can't do a W..|_ |_| |_ | | |_ |_| |  |_| _|



'PIC Programmers'
1994\05\26@092854 by rca

flavicon
face

Hello all,

I'm doing a degree in Information Technology at would like to get into
programming PICs.

I've obtained a copy of the MICROCHIP data book and details of their
development kits. Unfortunatly I cannot really afford the development kit, I
was looking at the PICSTART-16B at 125 UK pounds. Especially as I think I
can get assemblers etc. for my PC of the net and already have the data book.

SO, does anyone know of a cheaper programmer? Ideally it will be able to
program 16C5X, 16C71 and 16C84 devices and be PC based.

Alternatively does anyone in the UK have an "old" programmer that they want
to pass onto a student cheaply?

Thanks for any help you give,

Rafe

----------------------------------------------------------------
Rafe Aldridge - TakeThisOuTrcaEraseMEspamspam_OUTsirius.tn.rl.ac.uk
R65, Rutherford Appleton Lab,                      wwWWww
Chilton, Oxon, OX11 OQX, UK.                        o  o
------------------------------------------------ooO--(__)--Ooo--


1994\05\26@141609 by Peter Knight

flavicon
face
On Thu, 26 May 1994, Rafe Aldridge wrote:

> SO, does anyone know of a cheaper programmer? Ideally it will be able to
> program 16C5X, 16C71 and 16C84 devices and be PC based.

I can throughly recommend 'pic84pgm.zip' off the Microchip BBS, or
available via Circuit Cookbook on ftp -
bode.ee.ualberta.ca:/pub/cookbook/comp/ibm/pic84pgm.zip

Its a very easy to make PC based PIC16C84 programmer.

(I have to admit - I havent actually tried it yet - My first batch of
PIC17C84's is still on back order... :-(  )

Peter
-
Peter Knight      Email: RemoveMEp.j.knightspamTakeThisOuTuk.ac.bradford      Mono: Cathedrow
                                          _  _          _            _
Who says you can't display letters on a 7 |   _| |_ |_  |_| _|  _  _  _|
segment display? OK, so you can't do a W..|_ |_| |_ | | |_ |_| |  |_| _|



1994\05\26@203647 by Tom

flavicon
picon face
> Date:          Thu, 26 May 1994 19:12:14 +0100 (BST)
> From:          Peter Knight <P.J.KnightEraseMEspam.....bradford.ac.uk>
> Subject:       Re: PIC Programmers
> To:            Rafe Aldridge <EraseMErcaspamsirius.tn.rl.ac.uk>
> Cc:            RemoveMEpicEraseMEspamEraseMEfigment.mit.edu

> On Thu, 26 May 1994, Rafe Aldridge wrote:
>
> > SO, does anyone know of a cheaper programmer? Ideally it will be able to
> > program 16C5X, 16C71 and 16C84 devices and be PC based.
>
> I can throughly recommend 'pic84pgm.zip' off the Microchip BBS, or
> available via Circuit Cookbook on ftp -
> bode.ee.ualberta.ca:/pub/cookbook/comp/ibm/pic84pgm.zip
>
This won't handle the 16C5X series, but I'm currently designing
something for that. :-)
Catch22 ?               It uses a <pre-programmed> PIC.     <g>
Not to panic, I'll make it available at cost<ish>,  that is, to
people that talk nice to me. :-)
--
Cheers
                                     Tom


'Picstart and Mac's '
1994\05\28@084143 by ujonsson

flavicon
face
Is there anyone that have tried to use the Picstart together with a
Machintosh using SoftPC?

Ulf


'PISstart % serial I/O (mac) '
1994\05\28@142706 by ujonsson

flavicon
face

>
>The PICstart *CANNOT* be used through the serial port of the mac using
>SOFTPC. While the software works fine, uchip uses a completely nonstandard
>serial connection which is completely incompatible with the mac's serial
>ports.


Hi Jory,

Sorry that i posted the same question again. I belive fully in what you
said but a forgot your mail in the exitement over getting my own Picstart I
mixed it up with a post i got from a Amiga guy.

My wife was not happy when I told her that i might need space for one more
computer at home (Flintstone IBM PC).

Do you think that there is a possibility to get around the problem by any
meens, like putting a pic inbetween as a translator?


Ulf


'FAQ? '
1994\05\28@212156 by jory

face picon face
anyone interested in working on a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) document
for the pic?

-jory

a few possible topics:

basic pic line info

contact info/addresses for microchip

contact info/adderss and basic info on suppliers of pic-related products
(programmers, software, development tools, etc)

user comments on the above suppliers/products

pointers to pic-related resources (the mucrochip bbs, don lekei's bbs, ftp
sites, stamp mailing list, this mailing list, etc)





1994\05\29@143944 by Tom

flavicon
picon face
Hi Jory,
       you can put me down for maintaining duties. Unless you've already
got someone in mind ?


'FAQ fodder '
1994\05\31@183439 by jory

face picon face
So, I've gotten a foolish, errr, generous volunteer to maintain the FAQ.

Perhaps people on the list could either post info they have that would be
FAQ-fodder, or post things they would like to see in the FAQ.
Alternatively, if people would rather, they can send the info to me, and
I'll see that it is included (this could save bandwidth on the list, but
lead to duplication of effort... you decide). I've already gotten some info
(a short, but key, list of suppliers of picware).

Just think, after we've gotten the FAQ done, we can point novice users
towards this all-knowing, all-seeing document and use the list to discuss
the fine points of expert assembly language programming and hardware
development.  ;)

-jory




'faq stuff'
1994\06\01@234540 by Tom
flavicon
picon face
>
> Great. Sorry it was such a random deluge.
>
Glub, glub !

It's probably a bit early to say this but it looks as if it's begging
to be put on a www server,  or at least it wants breaking up.
Maybe into areas or something as a definitive list of PIC suppliers
in Canada / California  ain't a lot of use in Europe.    :-)

Oh, did you pass on the info abt Mac compilers ?  I got two msgs.
tonight, one was <virtually> answering to you, the question that the
other had asked of you.

I have a copy of ASPIC etc. and I've asked Don if he minds if I
upload it for FTP.  I don't expect him to object though. So what's
your favourite site ?
--
Cheers
                                     Tom


'Bloody FAQ !'
1994\06\02@183058 by Tom

flavicon
picon face
Just a pre-first draft sampler to prove that it's under way. :-)
I'm waiting for input from Microchip themselves, but so far the
offical reaction has been somewhat underwhelming.
Oh, and don't you dare quote the whole bloody thing back at me !
8-)  

--------------------------- CHOP HERE ---------------------------
This article is a collection of information sources for the PIC
family of microcontrollers (and variants).

The following topics are addressed:

     0)  Index

     1)  ABOUT THIS FAQ
   1.1)  Who put this FAQ together?
   1.2)  How can I contribute to this FAQ?
   1.3)  What newsgroups will this FAQ be posted to?
   1.4)  Can I distribute this FAQ or post it somewhere else?

     2)  ABOUT THE PIC
   2.1)  The PIC microcontroller
   2.2)  PIC representatives and approximate prices

     3)  PIC Utilities
   3.1)  FTP sites for the PIC
   3.2)  BBSs that support the PIC
   3.3)  Programming languages (3rd Party)
   3.4)      -:-     hardware     -:-               -:-

   4)     PIC DOCUMENTATION
   4.1)  Periodicals that cover the PIC
   4.2)  Books on the PIC
   4.3)  Miscellaneous documentation on the PIC

     5)  What's next.



1)  ABOUT THIS FAQ

1.1)  Who put this FAQ together?

       The members of the PIC  NEWS LIST via RemoveMEpicspam_OUTspamKILLspamfigment.mit.edu
       i.e.  yourselves.

1.2)  How can I contribute to this list?

   Please, if you have any suggestions corrections or additions,
   notify me by E-MAIL.  :  RemoveMETomTakeThisOuTspamspamtakdsign.demon.co.uk   Thank you.
       

1.3)  What newsgroups will this FAQ be posted to?

   This FAQ will be posted to the following newsgroups:
         sci.electronics
         ???.?????

   The schedule for posting will be once a month.


1.4)  Can I post this FAQ to my local BBS?

   I am putting no restrictions on the use of this FAQ except - It
must
   be distributed in its entirety and no financial gain may be
realized
   from it.


2)  ABOUT THE PIC

Comments & Descriptive prose .... anyone ?

2.1)  The PIC microcontroller

   The PIC series are eprom based 8-bit microcontrollers
       developed by Microchip Technology
               <List of Addresses to go here >

2.2)  PIC Variants

               List required here

3)  PIC SOFTWARE

   This section includes pointers to software for the PIC.
       FTP sites and BBSs


3.1)  FTP sites for the PIC

               Currently checking.....

#    ftp.pppl.gov (formerly lyman.pppl.gov)
#    ftp.funet.fi (nic.funet.fi)
#    EraseMEinfospamspamspamBeGonecircellar.com - Email (not ftp)
#    luth.se
#    hpcsos.col.hp.com
#    ftp.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be


3.2)  BBSs that support the PIC

               Mchipbbs, Don Lekei

3.3)  PIC programming languages (3rd Party)

Host m/c                PC

Prog. Name      ASPIC   Shareware `C' assembler  (reg = $100 CDN ($69 US))
               **DESIGNED** for embedded controller design
               the shareware license has an unusual clause absolving
               those who only use it for non-commercial purposes

Supplier/Author Don Lekei  < RemoveME72677.2623KILLspamspamcompuserve.com
               BBS at (Canada) (604) 597-3479
               - One assembler for 16c5X, 16c7X, 16c8X, 17c42
               - Compatable with PICSIM (MPSIM)
               - Compatable with MAKE, and with auto-error tracking editors
               - Many times faster than PICALC (MPALC)
               - Standard base notation (Intel & Motorola format)
               - CODE and FUNCTION macros
               - Auto register bank management
               - Text/data translation
               - Automaticly generates RETLW tables for text and data tables
               - Built-in version management and assembly control functions
               - user command-line switches
               - many other features
               -character set translation (eg. for LED, LCD, and On Screen
Displays)
               - bit labels, environment labels, etc.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Host m/c                Macintosh

Prog. Name      uASM

Supplier                Micro Dialects Inc,
               PO Box 190,
               Loveland, OH 45140,
               Ph: 513/271-9100.

Features:               An integrated text editor, assembler
               and communications modules. fully supports macros,
               automatic labels, local labels, conditionally assembly,
               includes to 10 level deep.
               The editor supports up to 10 open files at a time, full
               search and replace including grep searches,
               file size limited only by RAM available.  
               The emulator supports data transfer up to 38,400 baud.

               MDI is currently working on an upgradeto support the
               16C71, 84, 64, and 17C42.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.4)  PIC Programming Hardware (3rd Party)

Product         programmer
Model           ????
Supplier                Beradine Products Ltd,
               PO Box 86757,
               North Vancouver,
               BC CANADA V7L4L3,
               Ph: 604/988-9853.

Contact         Gary Anderson

Features                RS-232 terminal serial port compatible programmer
               Supports communications up to 38,400 baud,
               stand-alone or host operation,


4)  PIC DOCUMENTATION


4.1) Periodicals that may cover the PIC.

   The Computer Applications Journal (Circuit Cellar Ink)
       - programming and construction articles
       - POB 7694, Riverton, NJ  08077-8784
       - FAX: (203)872-2204
       - Voice orders: (609) 786-0409
       - On-line orders (BBS): (203) 871-1988
       - Email orders: ken.davidsonSTOPspamspamspam_OUTcircellar.com
       - $21.95, $31.95 surface Canada and Mexico,
         $49.95 air all other countries

   Computer Design
       - industry announcements and trends
       - One Technology Park Drive, P.O. Box 990, Westford, MA  
01886
       - (508)692-0700

   The Computer Journal
       - programming and construction articles
       - PO Box 535, Lincoln  96648

   Dr. Dobbs Journal
       - programming articles, concepts and designs
       - 411 Borel Ave., San Mateo, CA  94402
       - (415)358-9500

   Electronic Engineering Times
       - industry announcements and trends
       - 500-B Bi-County Boulevard, Farmingdale, NY  11735
       - (516)293-3000

   Electronics Now
       - construction articles
       - Box 55115, Boulder, CO  80321-5115
       - $19.97 one year

   Elektor Electronics
       - programming and construction articles
       - World Wide Subscription Service Ltd
         Unit 4, Gibbs Reed Farm, Pashley Road
         Ticehurst TN5 7HE, England
       - 27 UK pounds
    or
       - Old Colony Sound Lab, P.O. Box 243, Peterborough, NH 03458
       - Tel. (603) 924-6371, 924-6526
       - Fax: (603) 924-9467
       - $57 USA and Canada per year

   Embedded Systems Programming
       - programming and systems design articles
       - Miller Freeman Publications
       - 500 Howard St., San Francisco, CA  94105
       - (415) 397-1881

   Microcomputer Journal (formerly Computer Craft)
       - programming and constructions articles
       - 76 N. Broadway, Hicksville, NY  11801
       - $18.95 one year, foreign $23.00, foreign air mail $76.00

   Midnight Engineering
       - 1700 Washington Ave., Rocky Road, CO  81067
       - (719)254-4553


4.2)  Books on the PIC

   I don't have much information on this, only that one exists.  I
   would greatly appreciate it if someone could provide a short
synopsis
   and the complete book name, as my copy has not been delivered
yet.
   [it's in the post, honest !]

4.3)  Miscellaneous documentation on the PIC

   MicroChip Technology Incorporated
       - application notes



5)  What's next.

   I'm working on it...... Suggestions welcome.


   I would like to thank the following individuals who have
contributed

               

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Copyright (c) 1994 by T.A.Kellett, all rights reserved.
_______________________________________________________
Tom Kellett    < spamBeGoneTomSTOPspamspamEraseMEtakdsign.demon.co.uk >


'Math functions'
1994\06\02@221835 by johnsonj

flavicon
face
I am designing a simulator(using a pic) that does a slewing fuction.  It
is for a class project.  Here is my project.
I am makeing a device that will simulate the brakeing of a car.(well
sorta of).  Its not real accurate since I dont take into account a lot of
factors like variable weights and variable braking speeds but its a
project.  As a matter of fact its pretty close to a half-ass design.  But
once again, its all I have to do for the class.  
I give the pic a frequency(8 bit 255 in 1.3Hz increments, 70-400HZ) and
have a jump table that does the
Hz->clock cycles for me.  Now i have 5 bit slew rate(other 3 bits are
someting else) that represents my braking.  The slew is fixed at 330 to
8.3 Hz/sec.  Which translates into 255 to 8.3(?) cycles/second.  Well
here is my problem.  If I only adjust the pulses output per second once a
second it would simulate a vibrater more then a car stopping.  ie once
every second I would slow the car by 10.3 Hz or 330Hz.(like braking in a
YUGO :)  ok another flaw, brakes are not digital(I dont think) put play
with me.  My problem is I dont have and external clock for set time
interupts so I cant decrease the Hz evenly.  So i opted to do everything
on a pulse by pulse basis.  my problem is how do i find what 10.3 Hz(or
8.3 cycles) would add to my pulse period?  I have tried the divide
routines from microchip and found that they have too little acuracy and
generaly dont work worth a flip.  If you dont understand my question
email me, i will try to explain it better.
to sum it up
I need to translate 8.3 cycles/sec into a period to which I can add to
the Current period i am outputting.  this is a problem is the person is
driving at 300Hz and trys to stop at 8.3 cycles a sec(the amount i would
add to each period) then if the person was moving at 200Hz.  Also does
anyone have any math routines that work?  I could use them.
Help me please
       John

_____________________________________________________________________________
John Johnson                   |If it's not OS/2.|KILLspamjohnsonjspamBeGonespamccwf.cc.utexas.edu
                              |It's crap!       |EraseMEjohnsonjspamEraseMEghostwheel.bga.com
OOOO SSSS    /2222  2222    11 |                 |
O  O S      /    2     2     1 |"We need breath- |"Bite me." Tom Servo
O  O SSSS  /  2222  2222     1 |-ing room!"      |
O  O    S /   2     2    ..  1 |     Bill Gates  |"I want to decide who lives
OOOO SSSS/    2222  2222 .. 111|                 |and who dies" Crow T. Robot
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


1994\06\03@154529 by johnsonj

flavicon
face


Yea, i had one bouncd.  Dont remeber where from though.  It said no
server responce.  probable just a downed mail server if i had to guess.

Fri, 3 Jun 1994, jory bell wrote:

{Quote hidden}

_____________________________________________________________________________
John Johnson                   |If it's not OS/2.|@spam@johnsonj@spam@spamspam_OUTccwf.cc.utexas.edu
                              |It's crap!       |spamBeGonejohnsonjspamKILLspamghostwheel.bga.com
OOOO SSSS    /2222  2222    11 |                 |
O  O S      /    2     2     1 |"We need breath- |"Bite me." Tom Servo
O  O SSSS  /  2222  2222     1 |-ing room!"      |
O  O    S /   2     2    ..  1 |     Bill Gates  |"I want to decide who lives
OOOO SSSS/    2222  2222 .. 111|                 |and who dies" Crow T. Robot
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


1994\06\03@190021 by Don Lekei

picon face
John:

The easiest way to generate a slope in an integer system is to use a
sum-tracking algorythm (y=mx+b where m = dy/dx). Take the ratio of dy:dx
and add dx while the result is negative then subtract dy while the result
is positive.

The sign of the result at each step indicates whether the next step is x or
y (or in your case, whether or not to decrement the frequency on the next
pulse).  The slope can be varied related to another slope to simulate
higher order or non-linear functions.

If you normalize your time constants around 256 then there is no need to
actually do any division or multiplication.

If you still find yourself unable to solve this problem without a decimal
point, may I suggest that you voluntarily check yourself into the Betty
Ford center for the treatment of  "float" addiction <G>.

Hope that helped,
Don




1994\06\03@200116 by johnsonj

flavicon
face
I have solved my problem..  I just quite thinking in terms of HZ and went
to cycles.  Also i got some math routines to work(not bloating but 16bit
at least).  Aslo i did some calculations on my frequencies and found that
this car would be moving between 800mph-2500mps(thats hauling ass).  
Needless to say no cop would ever catch ya.
later
       John

_____________________________________________________________________________
John Johnson                   |If it's not OS/2.|.....johnsonjspam_OUTspamccwf.cc.utexas.edu
                              |It's crap!       |TakeThisOuTjohnsonj.....spamTakeThisOuTghostwheel.bga.com
OOOO SSSS    /2222  2222    11 |                 |
O  O S      /    2     2     1 |"We need breath- |"Bite me." Tom Servo
O  O SSSS  /  2222  2222     1 |-ing room!"      |
O  O    S /   2     2    ..  1 |     Bill Gates  |"I want to decide who lives
OOOO SSSS/    2222  2222 .. 111|                 |and who dies" Crow T. Robot
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


'PIC FAQ '
1994\06\04@094718 by Tom

flavicon
picon face
Hi Folks,
       As threatened by Jory, here is the first draft of the brand
new PIC FAQ for your perusal.  Please give it a glance and help me
to fill in some of the gaps.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This article is a collection of information sources for the PIC
family of microcontrollers (and variants).

The following topics are addressed:

           0   )  Index

           1   )  ABOUT THIS FAQ
           1.1)  Who put this FAQ together?
           1.2)  How can I contribute to this FAQ?
           1.3)  What newsgroups will this FAQ be posted to?
           1.4)  Can I distribute this FAQ or post it somewhere else?

           2   )  ABOUT THE PIC
           2.1)  The PIC microcontroller
           2.2)  PIC representatives and approximate prices

           3   )  PIC Utilities
           3.1)  FTP sites for the PIC
           3.2)  BBSs that support the PIC
           3.3)  Programming languages (3rd Party)
           3.4)      -:-     hardware     -:-               -:-

           4   )     PIC DOCUMENTATION
           4.1)  Periodicals that cover the PIC
           4.2)  Books on the PIC
           4.3)  Miscellaneous documentation on the PIC

           5   )  What's next.



1)  ABOUT THIS FAQ

1.1)  Who put this FAQ together?

       The members of the PIC  NEWS LIST via TakeThisOuTpicKILLspamspamspamfigment.mit.edu
       i.e.  yourselves.

1.2)  How can I contribute to this list?

   Please, if you have any suggestions corrections or additions,
   notify me by E-MAIL.  :  .....TomspamRemoveMEtakdsign.demon.co.uk   Thank you.
       

1.3)  What newsgroups will this FAQ be posted to?

   This FAQ will be posted to the following newsgroups:
         sci.electronics
         ???.?????     ----   suggestions  ?

   The schedule for posting will be once a month.


1.4)  Can I post this FAQ to my local BBS?

   I am putting no restrictions on the use of this FAQ except - It
must   be distributed in its entirety and no financial gain may be
realized  from it.


2)  ABOUT THE PIC

Comments & Descriptive prose .... anyone ?

2.1)  The PIC microcontroller

   The PIC series are eprom based 8-bit microcontrollers
       developed by Microchip Technology
               <List of Addresses to go here >

2.2)  PIC Variants

               List required here

3)  PIC SOFTWARE

   This section includes pointers to software for the PIC.
       FTP sites and BBSs


3.1)  FTP sites for the PIC

       FTP  SITE               Directory

       ftp.sics.se     /pub/mchipsoft/

The files here are publicly available from the Microchip BBS via
Compuserve. Since many people interested in these files have an
internet connection, the files have also graciously been made
available at SICS by Anders Nobinder of Memec Scandinavia, Microchip's
Swedish agent.

       ftp.funet.fi (nic.funet.fi)


3.2)  BBSs that support the PIC

       Microchip BBS
               Contact by dialing the same number you would use to get to
       Compuserve at 19200,n,8,1, except that you press +<CR> at the
(garbage)
       prompt, followed by MCHIPBBS as the host (instead of CIS).


       Don Lekei BBS
                (Canada) (604) 597-3479


3.3)  PIC programming languages (3rd Party)

Host m/c                PC

Prog. Name      ASPIC   Shareware `C' assembler  (reg = $100 CDN ($69 US))
               **DESIGNED** for embedded controller design
               the shareware license has an unusual clause absolving
               those who only use it for non-commercial purposes

Supplier/Author Don Lekei  < RemoveME72677.2623spamspamBeGonecompuserve.com >
               BBS at (Canada) (604) 597-3479
               - One assembler for 16c5X, 16c7X, 16c8X, 17c42
               - Compatable with PICSIM (MPSIM)
               - Compatable with MAKE, and with auto-error tracking editors
               - Many times faster than PICALC (MPALC)
               - Standard base notation (Intel & Motorola format)
               - CODE and FUNCTION macros
               - Auto register bank management
               - Text/data translation
               - Automatically generates RETLW tables for text and data tables
               - Built-in version management and assembly control functions
               - user command-line switches
               - many other features
               -character set translation (eg. for LED, LCD, On Screen Displays)
               - bit labels, environment labels, etc.




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Host m/c                Macintosh

Prog. Name      uASM

Supplier                Micro Dialects Inc,
               PO Box 190,
               Loveland, OH 45140,
               Ph: 513/271-9100.

Features:               An integrated text editor, assembler
               and communications modules. fully supports macros,
               automatic labels, local labels, conditionally assembly,
               includes to 10 level deep.
               The editor supports up to 10 open files at a time, full
               search and replace including grep searches,
               file size limited only by RAM available.  
               The emulator supports data transfer up to 38,400 baud.

NOTE:           The uASM code is incompatible with the MicroChip Simulator
               <unless you know better ? >


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Host m/c                PC ?

               C5x compiler C5x series
               C71 compiler

Supplier                CCS
               PO Box 11191
               Milwaukee, WI  53211
               phone # : 414-781-2794  ext.30
               (you leave your message on an answering machine)

Features                -libraries for RS232 serial I/O and precision delays
               -allow call trees deeper than the hardware stack


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.4)  PIC Programming Hardware (3rd Party)

Product         programmer
Model           Microburner 512
Supplier                Beradine Products Ltd,
               PO Box 86757,
               North Vancouver,
               BC CANADA V7L4L3,
               Ph: 604/988-9853.

Contact         Gary Anderson

Features                RS-232 terminal serial port compatible programmer
               Supports communications up to 38,400 baud,
               stand-alone or host operation,


4)  PIC DOCUMENTATION


4.1) Periodicals that may cover the PIC.

   The Computer Applications Journal (Circuit Cellar Ink)
       - programming and construction articles
       - POB 7694, Riverton, NJ  08077-8784
       - FAX: (203)872-2204
       - Voice orders: (609) 786-0409
       - On-line orders (BBS): (203) 871-1988
       - Email orders: spamBeGoneken.davidson@spam@spamspam_OUTcircellar.com
       - $21.95, $31.95 surface Canada and Mexico,
         $49.95 air all other countries

   Computer Design
        industry announcements and trends
       One Technology Park Drive,
       P.O. Box 990, Westford, MA  01886
        (508)692-0700

   The Computer Journal
       - programming and construction articles
       - PO Box 535, Lincoln  96648

   Dr. Dobbs Journal
       - programming articles, concepts and designs
       - 411 Borel Ave., San Mateo, CA  94402
       - (415)358-9500

   Electronic Engineering Times
       - industry announcements and trends
       - 500-B Bi-County Boulevard, Farmingdale, NY  11735
       - (516)293-3000

   Electronics Now
       - construction articles
       - Box 55115, Boulder, CO  80321-5115
       - $19.97 one year

   Elektor Electronics
       - programming and construction articles
       - World Wide Subscription Service Ltd
         Unit 4, Gibbs Reed Farm, Pashley Road
         Ticehurst TN5 7HE, England
       - 27 UK pounds
    or
       - Old Colony Sound Lab,
       - P.O. Box 243, Peterborough, NH 03458
       - Tel. (603) 924-6371, 924-6526
       - Fax: (603) 924-9467
       - $57 USA and Canada per year

   Embedded Systems Programming
       - programming and systems design articles
       - Miller Freeman Publications
       - 500 Howard St., San Francisco, CA  94105
       - (415) 397-1881

   Microcomputer Journal (formerly Computer Craft)
       - programming and constructions articles
       - 76 N. Broadway, Hicksville, NY  11801
       - $18.95 one year, foreign $23.00, foreign air mail $76.00

   Midnight Engineering
       - 1700 Washington Ave., Rocky Road, CO  81067
       - (719)254-4553


4.2)  Books on the PIC

   I don't have much information on this, only that one exists.  I
   would greatly appreciate it if someone could provide a short
   synopsis and the complete book name, as my copy has not
   been delivered yet.    [it's in the post, honest !]

4.3)  Miscellaneous documentation on the PIC

   MicroChip Technology Incorporated
       - application notes



5)  What's next.

   I'm working on it...... Suggestions welcome.


   I would like to thank the following individuals who have
contributed to this accumulation.

       Jory Bell      
       Don Lekei
NOTE: .......If your name should be here, apologies. some of the
above has been dredged from Jory's archives in such a fashion as to
make it less than convenient to work out with whom it originated.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Copyright (c) 1994 by T.A.Kellett, all rights reserved.
_______________________________________________________
Tom Kellett    < TakeThisOuTTomspamspamtakdsign.demon.co.uk >


1994\06\04@210035 by eric

flavicon
face
Here's some information to include in the FAQ.

=============================================================================
For section 2.1:

Australia:
       tel: 61 03 890 0970

France:
       Arizona Microchip Technology SARL
       2, Rue Du Buisson aux Fraises
       F-91300 Massy, France
       tel: 33 01 6930 9090
       fax: 33 01 6930 9079

Germany:
       Arizona Microchip Technology GMBH
       Alte Landstrasse 12-14
       D-8012 Ottobrunn, Germany
       tel: 49 089 609 6072
       fax: 49 089 609 1997

Hong Kong:
       Microchip Technology Inc.
       Unit No. 2520-2525
       Tower 1, Metroplaza
       Hing Fong Road, Kwai Fong
       N.T., Hong Kong
       tel: 852 410 2716
       fax: 852 418 1600

Italy:
       tel: 39 039 689 9939

Japan:
       Microchip Technology International Inc.
       Shinyokohama Gotoh Bldg. 8F, 3-22-4
       Shinyokohama, Kohoku-Ku, Yokohama-Shi
       Kanagawa 222 Japan
       tel: 81 45/471-6166
       fax: 81 45/471-6122

Korea:
       tel: 82 2 518 8181

Singapore:
       tel: 65 222 4962

Taiwan:
       tel: 886 2 760 2028

United Kingdom:
       Arizona Microchip Technology LTD.
       Unit 3, Meadow Bank, Furlong Road
       Bourne End, Bucks SL8 5AJ
       tel: 44 062-885-1077
       fax: 44 062-885-0178

United States:
       Microchip Technology Inc.
       2355 West Chandler Blvd.
       Chandler, AZ 85224-6199
       tel: (602) 786-7200
       fax: (602) 899-9210

=============================================================================
Other useful contacts:

Parallax - makes programmers, downloaders, emulators, etc.
       tel: (916) 624-8333
       fax: (916) 624-8003
       bbs: (916) 624-7101

Advanced Trans Data - makes programmers, emulators, etc.
       tel: (214) 980-2960
       fax: (214) 980-2937

Micro Engineering Labs - makes PIC-Proto boards
       tel: (719) 520-5323

Myriad Development - C compiler
       tel: (303) 692-3836

CCS - C compiler
       tel: (414) 781-2794 extension 30

Needham Electronics - I don't think they make PIC stuff, but they make a great
                     inexpensive EPROM programmer, the PB-10
       tel: (916) 924-8037
       fax: (916) 972-9960
       bbs: (916) 972-8042

=============================================================================
For section 2.2:

PIC processors are available in three families, which Microchip refers to as
the PIC16C5x, PIC16Cxx, and PIC17Cxx families.

PIC16C5x: 12 bit program word size, 33 instructions, 2 level stack,
         no interrupts

           Program    Data              Max.   Voltage   Typical   Digikey
           memory     memory     I/O    freq.  Range     Current   Price  
           (words)    (bytes)    pins   (MHz)  (Volts)   (mA)      (US $)
----------  ---------  ---------  -----  -----  --------  -------   -------
PIC16C54     512       25         12     20     2.5-6.25    2        4.39
PIC16C54A    512       25         12     20     2.5-6.25    2        
PIC16CR54    512 ROM   25         12     20     2.0-6.25    1        
PIC16CR54A   512 ROM   25         12     20     2.0-6.25    1        
PIC16C55     512       24         20     20     2.5-6.25    2        5.44
PIC16C56    1024       25         12     20     2.5-6.25    2        5.03
PIC16C57    2048       72         20     20     2.5-6.25    2        6.24
PIC16CR57A  2048 ROM   72         20     20     2.0-6.25    1        
PIC16C58A   2048       73         12     20     2.5-6.25    1        


PIC16Cxx: 14 bit word size, 35 instructions, 8 level stack

           Program    Data              Max.   Voltage   Typical   Digikey
           memory     memory     I/O    freq.  Range     Current   Price  
           (words)    (bytes)    pins   (MHz)  (Volts)   (mA)      (US $)
----------  ---------  ---------  -----  -----  --------  -------   -------
PIC16C64    2048       128        33     20     2.0-6.0     3       11.05
PIC16C71    1024       36         13     16     3.0-6.0     2       14.38
PIC16C74    4096       192                                          
PIC16C84    1024 EE    36 + 64 EE 13     10     2.0-6.0     2       10.15


PIC17Cxx: 16 bit word size, 55 instructions, 16 level stack:

           Program    Data              Max.   Voltage   Typical   Digikey
           memory     memory     I/O    freq.  Range     Current   Price  
           (words)    (bytes)    pins   (MHz)  (Volts)   (mA)      (US $)
----------  ---------  ---------  -----  -----  --------  -------   -------
PIC17C42    2048       256        33     25     4.5-5.5     6       15,15
PIC17C44    8192       480        33     25                        


Notes:

1.  Program memory is EPROM unless otherwise noted.
2.  Data memory is number of usable bytes, not including special function
   registers.
3.  Digikey prices are quantity 10 prices for 4 MHz DIP packaged OTP parts
   with RC oscillator option (where applicable), except that the 16C84 uses
   EEPROM program memory, and the slowest speed 17C42 is rated at 16 MHz.
   Prices are from Digikey catalog number 943 for May/June 1994.
   Other distributors often have lower prices, but typically also have
   high minimum order requirements.  Digikey also usually has plenty of
   parts in stock.  Windowed EPROM parts cost substantially more.

=============================================================================
Notes for programmers:

All PIC instructions are a single word.  The equivalent of the immediate
address mode of other processors is the literal mode, used by instructions
ending in "LW", such as MOVLW, ADDLW, SUBLW, ANDLW, IORLW, XORLW, and RETLW.
The byte of data used by these instructions is directly encoded in the
instruction itself.

All PIC instructions take a single instruction cycle (four oscillator cycles)
to execute, except instructions which can cause a change of flow or have PCL
as their destination, which take two instruction cycles.  The Microchip
documentation is misleading in that they claim that two cycles are taken
only if the PC changes.  Actually any instruction which potentially could
change the PC takes two cycles.  For example:

       movlw   37
       goto    next
next:   movwf   porta

The goto instruction takes two cycles even though the PC doesn't change.
This is useful as a two-cycle NOP, and is often written as "goto .+1" to
avoid the need for a label.

The W register is equivalent to the accumulator on other processors.  Almost
all data movement, arithmetic, and logic operations use W.

Instructions that operate on W and a register (i.e., instructions ending in
"WF", like ADDWF and MOVWF) allow the result to be placed in either W or the
register (but not both).  This is specified by a ",W" or ",F" after the
operand.  The default is ",F", which will place the result in the register.
This can cause a lot of confusion if you're not careful, so I recommend
always specifying the destination explicitly.  An example of a confusing
instruction:

       incf    foo,w   ; w := foo+1  note that foo is unchanged!

If you want the result in both W and the register, you can use either:

       incf    foo,w
       mowwf   foo

or:

       incf    foo,f
       movf    foo,w

The stack is not accessible to the programmer in any way other than the
call and return instructions.  There is no way to push or pull data, or even
to examine the stack pointer.  On the 16C5x family the stack has only two
levels, so it is frequently necessary to write code in a different style than
would be used on a typical processor; you can only call subroutines from your
main code, or from a subroutine called from main, but no deeper.

The 16C5x family doesn't have a normal return instruction; instead it has
RETLW, which stands for RETurn Literal Word.  RETLW loads an eight bit
constant into W (just as a MOVLW instruction would), then returns from the
subroutine.  This can be useful, but is agravating if you want to return a
computed value.  On the newer PIC families there is a normal RETURN
instruction.

With the exception of the 17Cxx family, there is no way for software to read
an arbitrary location of program memory.  In order to implement lookup tables,
it is necessary to combine the use of the ADDWF and RETLW instructions.  For
example, the following code implements a lookup table of the first four odd
prime numbers:

primes: addwf   pcl
       retlw   3
       retlw   5
       retlw   7
       retlw   11

To use the table, load the appropriate index (in this case, 0 to 3) into W,
and "call primes".  The addwf instruction adds the contents of W to the PC,
which has already been incremented to point to the "retlw 3".  The table will
return with the value in W.  The total time taken is 6 instruction cycles, or
24 oscillator cycles.

Note that while on most processors the use of an out-of-range index will
result in the use of incorrect data, but the program execution will continue
normally, on the PIC a bad index value will cause the execution of arbitrary
instructions!

Normally the index would range from 0 to the size of the table minus one,
but it is possible to use other ranges by putting the retlw instructions
somewhere other than immediately following the "addwf pcl".  It is also
possible to implement tables using a "subwf pcl", or perhaps other instructions
with pcl as the destination.

The subtract instructions (SUBWF and SUBLW) work differently than most people
expect.  SUBWF subracts W *from* the contents of the register, and SUBLW
subtracts W *from* the literal.  (SUBLW is not available on the 16C5x family.)

If you want to subtract a literal from W, it is easiest to use the ADDLW
instruction with the two's complement of the literal.  For example:

       addlw   0feh    ; w := w - 2

Some assemblers allow this to be written as:

       addlw   -2

There is no instruction to take the two's complement of W (like the NEG
instruction on Motorola processors), but because of the way the subract
instructions work you can use:

       sublw   0

On the 16C5x family, the CALL instruction can only address the first 256 words
of a bank of program memory.  It is common practice to use "call extenders",
which are simply GOTO instructions in the first 256 words with a target in
the last 256 words.

On the 16C57 and 16C58, if you plan to use indirect addressing (via the FSR
and IND registers), it is vitally important that your reset code clear FSR
before using any other RAM locations.  Otherwise you may start up in an
arbitrary bank, and as soon as you change FSR all your carefully set up
variables will effectively disappear.

=============================================================================
Useful code fragments:

It is very useful during debugging to hook up a piezo beeper to a port pin,
and beep it after initialization and at other strategic times.  Here's some
useful code from Rich Ottosen (the delay function is not needed but is thrown
in as a bonus):

;delay for w *1ms at 4mhz osc. freq.
delay   movwf   mscnt           ;count milliseconds
dly10   movlw   250
       movwf   dlycnt
dly20   decf    dlycnt          ;                               1 cycle
       btfss   status,zero     ;                               1
       goto    dly20           ;                               2 =4 cycles
       decf    mscnt           ;last msec?
       btfss   status,zero
       goto    dly10
       retlw   0               ;return nothing

;make a "bell" sound
beep:   movlw   200
       movwf   cycles
bp10:   movlw   83              ; a nice tone???
       movwf   period
       call    click
       decfsz  cycles
       goto    bp10
       retlw   0               ; return nothing


;make a "click" sound. (used for button pushes)
;       frequency = 1 /(1 /(osc frequency /4) *5 cycles *period *2)

click:  bsf     porta,pzt       ;click high
       movf    period,w        ;time for one half of cycle
       movwf   dlycnt          ; into delay counter
clk10:  nop                     ;                               1 cycle
       nop                     ;                               1
       decfsz  dlycnt          ;                               1
       goto    clk10           ;                               2= 5 cycles
       bcf     porta,pzt       ;click low
       movf    period,w        ;time for one half of cycle
       movwf   dlycnt          ; into delay counter
clk20   nop                     ;                               1 cycle
       nop                     ;                               1
       decfsz  dlycnt          ;                               1
       goto    clk20           ;                               2= 5 cycles
       retlw   0               ;return nothing

=============================================================================

'RTCC and SLEEP'
1994\06\08@152313 by jlawson

flavicon
face
Possible newbie question.

Does the PIC16CXX RTCC (f1) continue to increment from the internal
instruction cycle clock during a SLEEP instruction?
According to the simulator it does, but the data sheet indicates
otherwise.
Thanks.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Jamie Lawson         \ jlawsonEraseMEspamevbhort.uoguelph.ca \
University of Guelph \ Voice (519) 824-4120 x2616  \
Guelph, Ontario      \ FAX   (519) 767-0755        \
Canada               \                             \
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

1994\06\09@064402 by eric

flavicon
face
On Wed, 8 Jun 1994 15:19:26 EDT, "Jamie Lawson" <RemoveMEJLAWSONEraseMEspamspam_OUTevbhort.uoguelph.ca> wrote:

> Does the PIC16CXX RTCC (f1) continue to increment from the internal
> instruction cycle clock during a SLEEP instruction?

No, the oscillator stops.  Sounds like a bug in the simulator.

Note that on the 16C64 and 16C74, you can hook up a crystal to timer 1 if
you need an accurate timer during sleep.

Eric

1994\06\09@180613 by tom

flavicon
picon face

> Possible newbie question.
>
> Does the PIC16CXX RTCC (f1) continue to increment from the internal
> instruction cycle clock during a SLEEP instruction?
> According to the simulator it does, but the data sheet indicates
> otherwise.
> Thanks.

The SLEEP instruction works by disabling the CLK oscillator so the
RTCC has'nt got anything to count.
The simulator does not replicate this action. :)
--
Cheers
                                     Tom


'FAQ - Volunteers requ.'
1994\06\09@181306 by tom

flavicon
picon face
Greetings,

       The 2nd version of the FAQ is almost ready to be unleashed.

Wanted : Volunteer proof-readers to check it out before I post it, to
avoid unnecessary re-postings for corrections / addendii<?>  :)


--
Cheers
                                     Tom


'PIC and Sleep'
1994\06\10@000242 by -Kellogg High School

flavicon
face
The problem wiht the emulator is that unlike a real target, it has an
alternate clock & source of power.  Try selecting external clock on the
emulator & relying on an external clock circuit.

Limitation:  You can't "talk" to the emulation circuitry (to dump
registers  & trace buffers) when it is sleeping.

Seems to work with my Transdata Rice-16 (real time ICE)  in the above mode.

/s/ Bill


'PIC Code Library'
1994\06\10@203406 by tom

flavicon
picon face
I'm setting up a code library for the PICs.

The way it will work is:

PIC users (YOU) send routines in by e-mail. I classify and index
them.
If a user wants a routine to do X, they send e-mail specifying X and
the mailler here does the obvious.

If the said user improves the routine, or performs the function in a
different fashion, they improve the library by sending their version.
etc. etc.  I assume you get the picture. <g>

So, what can _you_ offer ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We need routines of every complexity from basic in/out and timing
etc.
for brand new users upto whatever you can legally part with. :-)

SO, dig out the early stuff you did when you were first play^H^H^H^H
experimenting with the PICS and e-mail it ;-

TO:             @spam@PicsRemoveMEspamEraseMEtakdsign.demon.co.uk
Subject:        Pic-code

As an extension to this it would be nice to offer complete packages.
i.e. circuit diag. + board layout ready to produce a board to
go with the software.

So, if you include a circuit diag, I'll lay out the boards and we'll
find an ftp site to hold them.
--
Cheers
                                     Tom


'neat PIC stuff from Dave Dunfield '
1994\06\13@220452 by eric

flavicon
face
The following is an excerpt from a recent message posted to the DS-750 mailing
list by Dave Dunfield (of Micro-C fame).  I haven't tried it, but is sounds
pretty neat.

Eric
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: alfred!tous!stardust!tous!alfred!ucf-cs!BIX.com!EraseMEddunfieldspam@spam@osceola.cs.ucf.edu
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 1994 09:44:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Development Tools
To: @spam@ds-750spam_OUTspam.....stardust.oau.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
X-Cosy-To: spamBeGoneds-750EraseMEspamstardust.oau.org

...

I have (in a joint venture with another company) just released a new
product which might be of interest. It is called the P57-MUSTANG, and
consists of a PIC 16C57 pre-programmed with a virtual machine
interpreter, and an 8K (byte) serial EEPROM. A socket for a second
8K EEPROM is provided, and EEPROM can be expanded to a total of 64K
by adding chips to the prototyping area. The serial EEPROM can be
used for both CODE and DATA storage, allowing you to permanently record
configuration etc. from within your program.

The board is 3" by 2" and includes a 1" by 2" prototyping area. The
development kit which includes: 1 board, C compiler, Assembler, Library
(with source code), In-circuit Simulator/Emulator (supporting C source
level debugging), and LOTS of other utilities is priced at $150 US

Individual boards are priced at: $59 US

The U.S. Distributor is:

   P&E Microcomputer Systems Inc.
       P.O. Box 2044
   Woburn, MA  01888
   Tel: (617) 353-9206
   Fax: (613) 353-9205

...

Dave Dunfield  (ddunfieldspamBeGonespambix.com)
Dunfield Development Systems

'Errors from MPALC'
1994\06\15@044850 by rca

flavicon
face

Hello all,

I've just tried to compile a very small program for use with the PIC16C84
using MPALC v4.14:

The program listing is:

{Quote hidden}

However I got two errors which I don't really understand:

0127   movwf   TRISA
Warning: [Warning 1] : line 127 : Filereg masked to appropriate number of bits

0129   movwf   TRISB
Warning: [Warning 2] : line 129 : Filereg masked to appropriate number of bits

Can anybody explain this to me? Seeing as this is my first ever program I'm
sure it's me being a bit stupid.

Thanks in advance,

Rafe

----------------------------------------------------------------
Rafe Aldridge - RemoveMErca@spam@spamspamBeGonesirius.tn.rl.ac.uk
R65, Rutherford Appleton Lab,                      wwWWww
Chilton, Oxon, OX11 OQX, UK.                        o  o
------------------------------------------------ooO--(__)--Ooo--


'The unused 40pin socket on the PIC Start programme'
1994\06\15@072115 by IDH

flavicon
face
Could 40 pin PIC variants be programmed by PIC Start if a Socket is
placed in the unused 40 pin placement?.

                                   Ian H.
                                   

'The unused 40 pin pickstart socket.'
1994\06\15@073342 by IDH

flavicon
face
Can the unused 40 pin pickstart socket be used forprogramming 40 pin
PIC chips?.
                       Ian H.
                       

1994\06\15@074540 by byron

face picon face
>
> Can the unused 40 pin pickstart socket be used forprogramming 40 pin
> PIC chips?.

Don't know. What revision do you have? I have the 16B. No 40pin
socket at all.

Both of the 40 pin offerings can be programmer serially. Maybe it's
possible to create the 5 pin interface necessary to do that on a
daughterboard?

BTW can someone make the MPSTART.EXE software (V3.04) available to me?
I went to the Microchip seminar yesterday and got a PICSTART 16B but
I don't have a 1.44 3.5" floppy at home and of course the software is
on a disk of that format. Bummer. The BBS has the assembler and the simulator
but not the MPSTART software. I can get it ftp or you can mail it to me
in most any format. THe former would be preferable.

Thanks,

BAJ

1994\06\15@080137 by rca

flavicon
face

> .....byron@spam@spamEraseMEcc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
>
>>BTW can someone make the MPSTART.EXE software (V3.04) available to me?
>
>You can ftp it from ftp.sics.se in the pub/mchipsoft/picstrt16 directory or
similar.
>
>Hope that helps.
>
>Rafe
>

----------------------------------------------------------------
Rafe Aldridge - .....rcaRemoveMEspamsirius.tn.rl.ac.uk
R65, Rutherford Appleton Lab,                      wwWWww
Chilton, Oxon, OX11 OQX, UK.                        o  o
------------------------------------------------ooO--(__)--Ooo--


1994\06\15@091502 by IDH

flavicon
face
> >
> > Can the unused 40 pin pickstart socket be used forprogramming 40 pin
> > PIC chips?.
>
> Don't know. What revision do you have? I have the 16B. No 40pin
> socket at all.
>
> Both of the 40 pin offerings can be programmer serially. Maybe it's
> possible to create the 5 pin interface necessary to do that on a
> daughterboard?

My board is marked 04-01315 rev2.  The Firmware chip is marked
Picstart-16B firmware rev 1.4.  The copyright is  1992.  The location
of the 40pin socket is market u8.  Can serial programming be done
using the Picstart Board as the programmer?. (Perhaps this is
refrasing your last question).

                           Ian H.

'Can Macintosh people play?'
1994\06\15@092747 by Mike Harpe

flavicon
face
I have to admit that I am getting very curious about the PIC series of
chips.  I am becoming increasingly frustrated by the availability problems
that daunt Motorola products.  The idea of being able to order chips from
Digi-Key really sounds nice....

Sorry if this is an FAQ, but what's available to support us Mac users
who want to use the PIC?  What else do I need to get started?

Mike Harpe
University of Louisville
--
Michael Harpe, Communications Analyst III          Information Technology
Internet: .....mikeSTOPspamspam@spam@hermes.louisville.edu               University of Louisville
(502) 852-5542 (Voice) (502) 852-1400 (FAX)        Louisville, Ky. 40292
"He's not a man, he's a remorseless eating machine!" - The Simpsons

'40 pin picstart socket.'
1994\06\15@100910 by IDH

flavicon
face

 
 > >
 > > Can the unused 40 pin pickstart socket be used forprogramming 40 pin
 > > PIC chips?.
 >
 > Don't know. What revision do you have? I have the 16B. No 40pin
 > socket at all.
 >
 > Both of the 40 pin offerings can be programmer serially. Maybe it's
 > possible to create the 5 pin interface necessary to do that on a
 > daughterboard?
 
 My board is marked 04-01315 rev2.  The Firmware chip is marked
 Picstart-16B firmware rev 1.4.  The copyright is  1992.  The location
 of the 40pin socket is market u8.  Can serial programming be done
 using the Picstart Board as the programmer?. (Perhaps this is
 refrasing your last question).
 
                             Ian H.



'PIC FAQ'
1994\06\15@152744 by Mike Harpe

flavicon
face
Thanks, Jory!  I should have thought of Micro Dialects.  I have their 68HC11
assembler.  I think I may give MicroChip a call.

Mike

BTW. Your 'F1's are getting used, I am just looking for a more available CPU
for a project I am working on for possible publication in QST.  
--
Michael Harpe, Communications Analyst III          Information Technology
Internet: mikeEraseMEspam@spam@hermes.louisville.edu               University of Louisville
(502) 852-5542 (Voice) (502) 852-1400 (FAX)        Louisville, Ky. 40292
"He's not a man, he's a remorseless eating machine!" - The Simpsons

'The unused 40 pin pickstart socket. '
1994\06\15@175723 by eric

flavicon
face
> Can the unused 40 pin pickstart socket be used forprogramming 40 pin
> PIC chips?.

Based on partially tracing the connections, it appears that the extra 40 pin
footprint on the PICSTART-16B was intended for use in programming the 17C42.
The firmware on the board probably doesn't support it, and the MPSTART program
on the PC certainly doesn't.  They probably planned to sell a board with the
40 pin socket as a PICSTART-17, but they haven't done so (yet).

The 40 pin pads would not work at all for programming the 16C64 and 16C74.
You might be able to wire an adapter to program these parts, and tell the
software that you're programming a 16C71.  You would only be able to use the
first 1K words of program though.

The PICSTART-16B1 doesn't have the extra 40 pin pads at all.

The PICSTART-16C will program the 16C64 and 16C74, and is rumored to program
the forthcoming 28-pin 16C63 and 16C73 as well.

By the way, the latest firmware for the PICSTART-16B and PICSTART-16B1 is
version 1.7.  If you use the 16C84 I would strongly recommend upgrading, and
if you use the 16C58A you _must_ upgrade.  The upgrade should be available
free from your Microchip representative.

Eric

'Errors from MPALC '
1994\06\15@180356 by eric

flavicon
face
> 0127   movwf   TRISA
> Warning: [Warning 1] : line 127 : Filereg masked to appropriate number of bits
> 0129   movwf   TRISB
> Warning: [Warning 2] : line 129 : Filereg masked to appropriate number of bits

The problem is that the TRISA and TRISB registers are in the second register
bank.  There are three ways to deal with this:


1)  Switch to register bank 1
   Write the TRISA and TRISB registers
   Switch back to register bank 0

   Note:  You may still get the assembler warning, but the code should work


2)  Use the FSR & IND registers to indirectly access the TRISA and TRISB
   registers

       movlw trisa
       movwf fsr
       movlw <value>
       movwf ind

       movlw trisb
       movwf fsr
       movlw <value>
       movwf ind


3)  Use the deprecated tris instructions

       movlw <value>
       tris  porta
       movlw <value>
       tris  portb


Microchip is trying to discourage people from using the tris instructions,
and claim that they may be removed from future parts.

I doubt that they would remove them from future versions of any existing
parts (i.e., 16C64, 16C71, 16C74, and 16C84);  I think they just mean
that they might not put them in new designs.

Eric

'Parallax 16C64 Adapter pinout..'
1994\06\16@190829 by johnsonj

flavicon
face
I just bought a Parallax programmer(its much better then my old microchip
one).  Anyway i really dont have money to buy the adapter(yes i know is
only $50).  I have a couple enginnering samples of the 64 and would like
to program them.  Does anyone have this adapter and would you give me the
pinouts on it.  That is what pin on the header goes to which pin on the
16c64.  
later
       John

_____________________________________________________________________________
John Johnson                   |If it's not OS/2.|RemoveMEjohnsonjspamspamBeGoneccwf.cc.utexas.edu
                              |It's crap!       |spamBeGonejohnsonjKILLspamspam@spam@ghostwheel.bga.com
OOOO SSSS    /2222  2222    11 |                 |
O  O S      /    2     2     1 |"We need breath- |"Bite me." Tom Servo
O  O SSSS  /  2222  2222     1 |-ing room!"      |
O  O    S /   2     2    ..  1 |     Bill Gates  |"I want to decide who lives
OOOO SSSS/    2222  2222 .. 111|                 |and who dies" Crow T. Robot
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


'16C71 programmer'
1994\06\17@031715 by rca

flavicon
face

Hello all,

I've built David Taits programmer for use with an 16C84. However, I'd also
like to use the 16C71 at some stage due to the ad convertor.

Seeing as the 16C71 is also serially programmable, could I use Davids
programmer for this as well? Assuming of course that the device has been
erased properly.

Thanks for any info.

Rafe


----------------------------------------------------------------
Rafe Aldridge - rcaspam_OUTspam@spam@sirius.tn.rl.ac.uk
R65, Rutherford Appleton Lab,                      wwWWww
Chilton, Oxon, OX11 OQX, UK.                        o  o
------------------------------------------------ooO--(__)--Ooo--


'PIC-FAQ'
1994\06\17@110204 by tom

flavicon
picon face
PIC-FAQ         Issue 2.0a              Last updated: 17/06/94 12:07:20

This article is a collection of information sources for the PIC
family of microcontrollers (and variants). Formatted at 79 chrs wide


1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789

The following topics are addressed:

           0  )  Index <You're reading it>

           1  )  ABOUT THIS FAQ
           1.1)  Who put this FAQ together?
           1.2)  How can I contribute to this FAQ?
           1.3)  What newsgroups will this FAQ be posted to?
           1.4)  Mailing lists of interest to PIC fettlers
           1.5)  Other FAQs of possible interest
           1.6)  Can I distribute this FAQ or post it somewhere else?

           2  )  ABOUT THE PIC
           2.1)  The PIC microcontroller
           2.2)  PIC variants
           2.3)  Notes for programmers
           2.4)  PIC contacts and representatives

           3  )  PIC Utilities
           3.1)  FTP sites for the PIC
           3.2)  BBSs that support the PIC
           3.3)  Programming languages (3rd Party)
           3.4)  Programming hardware  (3rd Party)

           4  )  PIC DOCUMENTATION
           4.1)  Periodicals that cover the PIC
           4.2)  Books on the PIC
           4.3)  Miscellaneous documentation on the PIC

           5  )  What's next.



=============================================================================

1)  ABOUT THIS FAQ

1.1)  Who put this FAQ together?

       The members of the PIC  NEWS LIST via spamBeGonepic@spam@spamfigment.mit.edu
       i.e.  yourselves.

1.2)  How can I contribute to this list?

   Please, if you have any suggestions corrections or additions,
   notify me by E-MAIL.  :  RemoveMETomEraseMEspamKILLspamtakdsign.demon.co.uk   Thank you.
       

1.3)  What newsgroups will this FAQ be posted to?

   This FAQ will be posted to the following newsgroups:
       sci.electronics                 Y
       comp.robotics                   Y
       comp.realtime                   Y
       comp.answers                    Y When it's compliant
       alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt     ?

       ???.?????   suggestions         ?

   The schedule for posting will be once a month.


1.4)  Mailing lists of interest


       The pic list address is:         spamBeGonepicspam_OUTspamRemoveMEfigment.mit.edu
       Administrative matters go to:    .....pic-requestspamRemoveMEfigment.mit.edu



1.5)  Other FAQs of possible interest
       The 8051FAQ posted by Russ Hersch - sibitspam@spam@datasrv.co.il

       Available in

       comp.sys.intel
       comp.realtime
       comp.robotics
       comp.lang.forth
       sci.electronics


1.6)  Can I post this FAQ to my local BBS?

   I am putting no restrictions on the use of this FAQ except - It
must   be distributed in its entirety and no financial gain may be
realized  from it.


=============================================================================

2)  ABOUT THE PIC                                       13/06/94 01:34:51


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.1)  The PIC microcontroller

   The PIC series are eprom based 8-bit microcontrollers
       developed by Microchip Technology


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.2)  PIC Variants

PIC processors are available in three families, which Microchip refers to
as
the PIC16C5x, PIC16Cxx, and PIC17Cxx families.

PIC16C5x: 12 bit program word size, 33 instructions, 2 level stack,
         no interrupts

           Program    Data              Max.   Voltage   Typical   Digikey
           memory     memory     I/O    freq.  Range     Current   Price  
           (words)    (bytes)    pins   (MHz)  (Volts)   (mA)      (US $)
----------  ---------  ---------  -----  -----  --------  -------   -------
PIC16C54     512       25         12     20     2.5-6.25    2        4.39
PIC16C54A    512       25         12     20     2.5-6.25    2        
PIC16CR54    512 ROM   25         12     20     2.0-6.25    1        
PIC16CR54A   512 ROM   25         12     20     2.0-6.25    1        
PIC16C55     512       24         20     20     2.5-6.25    2        5.44
PIC16C56    1024       25         12     20     2.5-6.25    2        5.03
PIC16C57    2048       72         20     20     2.5-6.25    2        6.24
PIC16CR57A  2048 ROM   72         20     20     2.0-6.25    1        
PIC16C58A   2048       73         12     20     2.5-6.25    1        


PIC16Cxx: 14 bit word size, 35 instructions, 8 level stack

           Program    Data              Max.   Voltage   Typical   Digikey
           memory     memory     I/O    freq.  Range     Current   Price  
           (words)    (bytes)    pins   (MHz)  (Volts)   (mA)    (US $)
----------  ---------  ---------  -----  -----  --------  -------   -------
PIC16C64    2048       128        33     20     2.0-6.0     3       11.05
PIC16C71    1024       36         13     16     3.0-6.0     2       14.38
PIC16C74    4096       192                                          
PIC16C84    1024 EE    36 + 64 EE 13     10     2.0-6.0     2       10.15


PIC17Cxx: 16 bit word size, 55 instructions, 16 level stack:

           Program    Data              Max.   Voltage   Typical   Digikey
           memory     memory     I/O    freq.  Range     Current   Price  
           (words)    (bytes)    pins   (MHz)  (Volts)   (mA)    (US $)
----------  ---------  ---------  -----  -----  --------  -------   -------
PIC17C42    2048       256        33     25     4.5-5.5     6       15,15
PIC17C44    8192       480        33     25                        


Notes:

1.  Program memory is EPROM unless otherwise noted.
2.  Data memory is number of usable bytes, not including special function
   registers.
3.  Digikey prices are quantity 10 prices for 4 MHz DIP packaged OTP parts
   with RC oscillator option (where applicable), except that the 16C84
   uses EEPROM program memory,the slowest speed 17C42 is rated at 16MHz
   Prices are from Digikey catalog number 943 for May/June 1994.
   Other distributors often have lower prices, but typically also have
   high minimum order requirements.  Digikey also usually has plenty of
   parts in stock.  Windowed EPROM parts cost substantially more.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------




2.3)
Notes for programmers:

All PIC instructions are a single word.  The equivalent of the immediate
address mode of other processors is the literal mode, used by instructions
ending in "LW", such as MOVLW, ADDLW, SUBLW, ANDLW, IORLW, XORLW, and
RETLW.The byte of data used by these instructions is directly encoded in
the instruction itself.

All PIC instructions take a single instruction cycle (four oscillator
cycles) to execute, unless a conditional test is TRUE or the program
counter is changed as a result of an instruction, in this case the
execution takes two instruction cycles.  

For example:

       movlw   37
       goto    next
next:   movwf   porta

The goto instruction takes two cycles (1 to get the value of label "next"
and 1 to load that value into the program counter) This is useful as a
two-cycle NOP, and is often written as "goto .+1" to avoid the need for a
label.

The W register is equivalent to the accumulator on other processors.
Almost all data movement, arithmetic, and logic operations use W.

Instructions that operate on W and a register (i.e., instructions ending
in "WF", like ADDWF and MOVWF) allow the result to be placed in either W or
the register (but not both).  This is specified by a ",W" or ",F" after the
operand.  The default is ",F", which will place the result in the
register. This can cause a lot of confusion if you're not careful, so I
recommend always specifying the destination explicitly.  An example of a
confusing instruction:

       incf    foo,w   ; w := foo+1  note that foo is unchanged!

If you want the result in both W and the register, you can use either:

       incf    foo,w
       mowwf   foo

or:

       incf    foo,f
       movf    foo,w

The stack is not accessible to the programmer in any way other than the
call and return instructions.  There is no way to push or pull data, or
even to examine the stack pointer.  On the 16C5x family the stack has only
two levels, so it is frequently necessary to write code in a different
style than would be used on a typical processor; you can only call
subroutines from your main code, or from a subroutine called from main, but
no deeper. If you try to make a 3rd CALL, the 2nd return address is
over-written so that the return from the 3rd CALL is OK but the return from
the 2nd CALL ends up where the 1st CALL should return to.

The 16CXX parts which implement an 8 level stack do so in a circular
fashion, so that the 9th CALL over-writes the return address for the 1st
CALL.

The 16C5x family doesn't have a normal return instruction; instead it has
RETLW, which stands for RETurn Literal Word.  RETLW loads an eight bit
constant into W (just as a MOVLW instruction would), then returns from the
subroutine.  This can be useful, but is agravating if you want to return a
computed value.  On the newer PIC families there is a normal RETURN
instruction.

With the exception of the 17Cxx family, there is no way for software to
read an arbitrary location of program memory.  In order to implement lookup
tables, it is necessary to combine the use of the ADDWF and RETLW
instructions.  For example, the following code implements a lookup table of
the first four odd prime numbers:

primes: addwf   pcl
       retlw   3
       retlw   5
       retlw   7
       retlw   11

To use the table, load the appropriate index (in this case, 0 to 3) into
W, and "call primes".  The addwf instruction adds the contents of W to the
PC, which has already been incremented to point to the "retlw 3".  The
table will return with the value in W.  The total time taken is 6
instruction cycles, or 24 oscillator cycles.

Note that while on most processors the use of an out-of-range index will
result in the use of incorrect data, but the program execution will
continue normally, on the PIC a bad index value will cause the execution of
arbitrary instructions!

i.e. the computed address must be in the top 1/2 of page.

Normally the index would range from 0 to the size of the table minus one,
but it is possible to use other ranges by putting the retlw instructions
somewhere other than immediately following the "addwf pcl".  It is also
possible to implement tables using a "subwf pcl", or perhaps other
instructions with pcl as the destination.

The subtract instructions (SUBWF and SUBLW) work differently than most
people expect.  SUBWF subracts W *from* the contents of the register, and
SUBLW subtracts W *from* the literal.  (SUBLW is not available on the 16C5x
family.)

If you want to subtract a literal from W, it is easiest to use the ADDLW
instruction with the two's complement of the literal.  For example:

       addlw   0feh    ; w := w - 2

Some assemblers allow this to be written as:

       addlw   -2

There is no instruction to take the two's complement of W (like the NEG
instruction on Motorola processors), but because of the way the subract
instructions work you can use:

       sublw   0

On the 16C5x family, the CALL instruction can only address the first 256
words of a bank of program memory.  It is common practice to use "call
extenders", which are simply GOTO instructions in the first 256 words with
a target in the last 256 words.

On the 16C57 and 16C58, if you plan to use indirect addressing (via the FSR
and IND registers), it is vitally important that your reset code clear FSR
before using any other RAM locations.  Otherwise you may start up in an
arbitrary bank, and as soon as you change FSR all your carefully set up
variables will effectively disappear.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.4)  PIC contacts and representatives          12/06/94 12:12:51

I don't know where these are for sure.

       Advanced Trans Data                             tel:(214) 980- 2960
       Programmer      PGM16 & PGM 16x8 Gang Prog.     fax:(214) 980-2937      
       No further information is available at this time

       Micro Engineering Labs                          tel:(719) 520-5323
       makes PIC-Proto boards

       Myriad Development                              tel:(303) 692-3836
       CCS - C compiler
       tel: (414) 781-2794 extension 30

       Digi-Key                                        tel:1-800-344-4539
       Order electronic parts, carry 16C54,55,56,57,&71.

       ED Teck. Pubs                                   tel:407-454-9905
       Fred Eady                                       BBS:407-454-3198
       Writes articles for popular magazines.
       Has a PIC programmer kit for $70.
       BBS good source of information, very helpful.

       FAI                                             tel:1-800-303-5701
       Ask for Chris
       Electronics distributer, carry PIC's,

       Needham Electronics                             tel:(916) 924-8037
        I don't know if they make PIC stuff,           fax:(916) 972-9960
       but they make an EPROM programmer, the PB-10    bbs:(916) 972-8042

       Their emp-20 is great for Pics,Pals,Gala,EEproms etc but is ~$500
       It can be set to auto program on start up. It takes about 4 seconds
       for a bat file to reassemble the source with new EQU's from the
       command line, recompile and program a part.

       Protel                                          tel:1-800-544-4186
       Builder of EASYTRAX, which is free-ware and a bunch of new stuff.
       Call Ext 225 ask for Louise Markham.            bbs:1-408-243-0125


       Bell Industries                                 tel:1-800-525-6666
       Electronic Distributor, including PIC's
.........................................................................

Australia
       Microchip Technology                    tel:61 03 890 0970

       Product information
       No further information is available at this time

.........................................................................

Canada
AP Circuits
       BBS 1-403-291-9342 (Canada)
       Can download EASYTRAX(V2.06), various utilities, GERBER file
       proofers, etc. You can upload PCB files and they will make
       boards and ship to you in about week. (about $100)

       Baradine Products Ltd                   tel:604-988-9853
       Programmer      Micro-Burner    
       No further information is available at this time

.........................................................................
Europe
       Data I/O Corp.                          tel:31(0)-6622866
       Programmer      Unisite with Site-48 module    
       No further information is available at this time

.........................................................................
France
       Arizona Microchip Technology SARL       tel:33 01 6930 9090
       2, Rue Du Buisson aux Fraises           fax:33 01 6930 9079
       F-91300 Massy, France
       Product information    

.........................................................................
Germany
       Arizona Microchip Technology GMBH       tel:49 089 609 6072
       Alte Landstrasse 12-14                  fax:49 089 609 1997
       D-8012 Ottobrunn, Germany
       Product information    

       SMS                                     tel:49-7522-4460
       Programmer      Sprint Expert  
       No further information is available at this time

.........................................................................
Hong Kong
       Microchip Technology Inc.               tel:852 410 2716
       Unit No. 2520-2525                      fax: 852 418 1600
       Tower 1, Metroplaza
       Hing Fong Road, Kwai Fong
       N.T., Hong Kong
       Product information

.........................................................................
Italy
       Microchip Technology                    tel:39 039 689 9939
       Product information
       No further information is available at this time

.........................................................................
Japan
       Data I/O Corp.                          tel:(03)  432- 6991
       Programmer      Unisite with Site-48 module    
       No further information is available at this time

       Microchip Technology International Inc. tel:81 45/471-6166
       Shinyokohama Gotoh Bldg. 8F, 3-22-4     fax: 81 45/471-6122

1994\06\17@110204 by tom

flavicon
picon face
       Shinyokohama, Kohoku-Ku, Yokohama-Shi
       Kanagawa 222 Japan
       Product information            

.........................................................................
Korea
       Microchip Technology                    tel:82 2 518 8181
       Product information
       No further information is available at this time

.........................................................................
Singapore
       Microchip Technology                    tel:65 222 4962
       Product information
       No further information is available at this time

.........................................................................
Taiwan
       HI-LO                                   tel:(02) 7640215
       Programmer      ALL-03  
       No further information is available at this time

       Microchip Technology                    tel:886 2 760 2028
       Product information
       No further information is available at this time

.........................................................................
U.K.    
       Arizona Microchip Technology Ltd        tel:44 062-885-1077
       Unit 3, Meadow Bank, Furlong Rd         fax: 44 062-885-0178
       Bourne End, Bucks SL8 5AJ
       Product information            

       Application Solutions Ltd               tel:273-476608
       Programmer      PIC Programmer
       No further information is available at this time

       Citadel Products Ltd.                   tel:44-819-511-848
       Programmer      PC-82  
       No further information is available at this time

       Maple Technology Ltd                    tel:44-666-825-146
       Programmer      MQP-200
       No further information is available at this time

       Stag Microsystems                       tel:44-707-332-148
       Programmer      PP39    
       No further information is available at this time

.........................................................................
U.S.    
       ADVIN Systems Inc                       tel:408-984-8600
       Programmer      PILOT U40      
       No further information is available at this time

       BP Microsystems                         tel:800-225-2102
       Programmer      CP-1128                 tel:713-461-4958
       No further information is available at this time

       Data I/O Corp.                          tel:800-288-4965
       Programmer      Unisite with Site-48 module    
       No further information is available at this time

       Elan Digital Systems Ltd                tel:(408) 946-3864
       Programmer      EF-PER 5000 Series Gang Programmer      
       No further information is available at this time

       Link Computer Graphics                  tel:301-994-6669
       Programmer      CLK-3100        
       No further information is available at this time

       Logical Devices Inc                     tel:800-331-7766
       Programmer      ALLPRO 88               tel:305-974-0967
       No further information is available at this time

       Micro Engineering Labs                  tel:719-520-5323
       Box 7532 Colorado Springs, CO 80933
       Has proto-type boards and demo kits,
       Good source of info, can do manufacturing, etc

       Microchip Technology Inc.               tel:(602) 786-7200
       2355 West Chandler Blvd.                fax: (602) 899-9210
       Chandler, AZ 85224-6199
       Product information            

       Parallax Inc                            tel:916-721-6669
       6359 Auburn Blvd., Suite C              fax: (916) 624-8003
       Citrus Heights, CA 95621 USA            bbs: (916) 624-7101
       Assembler / Simulator                   Help 916-624-8333
       The assembler takes either the standard instructions
        or parallax's 8051-like pseudo instructions

       Parallax Inc                            tel:916-721-6669
       6359 Auburn Blvd., Suite C              fax: (916) 624-8003
       Citrus Heights, CA 95621 USA            bbs: (916) 624-7101
       Programmer      PIC 16C5X-PGM           Help 916-624-8333
       If you call the BBS you can order info by mail.



=============================================================================


3)  PIC Utilities                               13/06/94 02:24:19


       PICSTART-16B-1

Features
       Supports only 16C5x,16C71 and 16C84,(INHX16, INHX8S, INHX8M, PICICE)
       compatible with a wide range of file formats
       comes with chips to play with.
       has a zif socket
       assembler has powerful macro capabilities
       also includes a powerful debugger


       PICSTART-16C

Features
       To be announced


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

       PARALLAX
       --------
Features
       Parallax's own instruction set  Their assembler takes either the
       standard instructions or parallax's 8051-like pseudo instructions.
       needs only a 360k floppy, MSDOS 2.1, 128K RAM, mono.
       simulator software


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.1)  FTP sites for the PIC

       FTP  SITE               Directory

       ftp.sics.se     /pub/mchipsoft/

The files here are publicly available from the Microchip BBS via
Compuserve. Since many people interested in these files have an
internet connection, the files have also graciously been made
available at SICS by Anders Nobinder of Memec Scandinavia,
Microchip's Swedish agent.

       ftp.funet.fi (nic.funet.fi)      /pub/microprocs/PIC

       wpi.wpi.edu     /stamp
               basic stamp information PLUS PIC "C" compiler

       ftp.luth.se           /pub/misc/microchip

       ftp.oak.oakland.edu

       ftp.uni-erlangen.de,
       directory
       [ /mounts/epix/public/pub/Multimedia/VideoCrypt
       /microcontroller/microchip.bbs ]

       Markus Kuhn <EraseMEmskuhnRemoveMEspamSTOPspamcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.2)  BBSs that support the PIC

       Microchip BBS
               Contact by dialing the same number you would use to get to
       Compuserve at 19200,n,8,1, except that you press +<CR> at the
       (garbage)
       prompt, followed by MCHIPBBS as the host (instead of CIS).


       Don Lekei BBS
                (Canada) (604) 597-3479


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.3)  PIC programming languages (3rd Party)

Host m/c                PC

Prog. Name      ASPIC   Shareware PIC assembler  (reg = $100 CDN ($69 US))
               **DESIGNED** for embedded controller design
               the shareware license has an unusual clause absolving
               those who only use it for non-commercial purposes

Supplier/Author Don Lekei  < RemoveME72677.2623KILLspamspamTakeThisOuTcompuserve.com >
               BBS at (Canada) (604) 597-3479

Features        - One assembler for 16c5X, 16c6X, 16c7X, 16c8X, 17c42
               - Compatable with PICSIM (MPSIM)
               - Compatable with MAKE, and with auto-error tracking editors
               - Many times faster than PICALC (MPALC)
               - Standard base notation (Intel & Motorola format)
               - CODE and FUNCTION macros
               - Auto register bank management
               - Text/data translation
               - Automatically generates RETLW tables for text / data tables
               - Built-in version management and assembly control functions
               - user command-line switches
               - many other features
               -character set translation (eg. for LED,LCD,On Screen Displays)
               - bit labels, environment labels, etc.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Host m/c        PC i386 /MSDOS/SunOS 4.1.1/NeXTSTEP 3.0.

Prog Name       B.LO.C release 1.0, version 4.0
               Available for the PIC16CXX and PIC17CXX
Supplier        Butterfly Signal Processing Inc.
               131 Bloor Street West #200-154
               Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1R8
               Tel: (416) 929-5754
               Fax: (416) 929-5744
Features        `C-like' syntax
               Locally optimal code generation
               Superfast, one-pass compilation
               Zero stack and memory space used
               Produces fully annotated, easy-to-read -
                  - assembly code to facilitate simulation
               Regular and in-line functions supported
               B.LO.C and assembly routines can be mixed
               In-line assembly code inclusion
               For more information contact
               spamBeGoneasmspam@spam@kalam.butterfly.com


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Host m/c                Macintosh

Prog. Name      uASM

Supplier                Micro Dialects Inc,
               PO Box 190,
               Loveland, OH 45140,
               Ph: 513/271-9100.

Features:               An integrated text editor, assembler
               and communications modules. fully supports macros,
               automatic labels, local labels, conditionally assembly,
               includes to 10 level deep.
               The editor supports up to 10 open files at a time, full
               search and replace including grep searches,
               file size limited only by RAM available.  
               The emulator supports data transfer up to 38,400 baud.

NOTE:           The uASM code is incompatible with the MicroChip Simulator
               <unless you know better ? >



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Host m/c                PC ?

               C5x compiler C5x series
               C71 compiler

Supplier                CCS
               PO Box 11191
               Milwaukee, WI  53211
               phone # : 414-781-2794  ext.30
               (you leave your message on an answering machine)

Features                -libraries for RS232 serial I/O and precision delays
               -allow call trees deeper than the hardware stack




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.4)  PIC Programming Hardware (3rd Party)

Product         programmer
Model           Microburner 512
Supplier                Beradine Products Ltd,
               PO Box 86757,
               North Vancouver,
               BC CANADA V7L4L3,
               Ph: 604/988-9853.

Contact         Gary Anderson

Features                RS-232 terminal serial port compatible programmer
               Supports communications up to 38,400 baud,
               stand-alone or host operation,


PIC16C84 Programmer using PC parallel port.
               Schematic, C and QBasic
               source available from:

       Microchip BBS:
               In 3rdparty library as PIC84PGM.ZIP
       ftp://bode.ee.ualberta.ca
               /pub/cookbook/comp/ibm/pic84pgm.zip
       ftp://ftp.luth.se
               /pub/misc/microchip/16c84/pic84pgm.zip

       Contact: RemoveMEdavid.taitspam_OUTspamman.ac.uk Author/Designer


=============================================================================


4)  PIC DOCUMENTATION           12/06/94 12:11:56


4.1) Periodicals that may cover the PIC.

   The Computer Applications Journal (Circuit Cellar Ink)
       - programming and construction articles
       - POB 7694, Riverton, NJ  08077-8784
       - FAX: (203)872-2204
       - Voice orders: (609) 786-0409
       - On-line orders (BBS): (203) 871-1988
       - Email orders: ken.davidsonspamspamcircellar.com
       - $21.95, $31.95 surface Canada and Mexico,
         $49.95 air all other countries

   Computer Design
        industry announcements and trends
       One Technology Park Drive,
       P.O. Box 990, Westford, MA  01886
        (508)692-0700

   The Computer Journal
       - programming and construction articles
       - PO Box 535, Lincoln  96648

   Dr. Dobbs Journal
       - programming articles, concepts and designs
       - 411 Borel Ave., San Mateo, CA  94402
       - (415)358-9500

   Electronic Engineering Times
       - industry announcements and trends
       - 500-B Bi-County Boulevard, Farmingdale, NY  11735
       - (516)293-3000

   Electronics Now
       - construction articles
       - Box 55115, Boulder, CO  80321-5115
       - $19.97 one year

   Elektor Electronics
       - programming and construction articles
       - World Wide Subscription Service Ltd
         Unit 4, Gibbs Reed Farm, Pashley Road
         Ticehurst TN5 7HE, England
       - 27 UK pounds
    or
       - Old Colony Sound Lab,
       - P.O. Box 243, Peterborough, NH 03458
       - Tel. (603) 924-6371, 924-6526
       - Fax: (603) 924-9467
       - $57 USA and Canada per year

   Embedded Systems Programming
       - programming and systems design articles
       - Miller Freeman Publications
       - 500 Howard St., San Francisco, CA  94105
       - (415) 397-1881

   Microcomputer Journal (formerly Computer Craft)
       - programming and constructions articles
       - 76 N. Broadway, Hicksville, NY  11801
       - $18.95 one year, foreign $23.00, foreign air mail $76.00

   Midnight Engineering
       - 1700 Washington Ave., Rocky Road, CO  81067
       - (719)254-4553


=============================================================================

4.2)  Books on the PIC

       A Beginners Guide to the Microchip PIC     Nigel Gardner
       ISBN: 1 899013 00 8     Printed in the UK by Character Press Ltd.
       Software (on floppy) and hardware guide.  Debugging techniques...
       Available from Polar Electronics in UK  19.95 UK Pounds



=============================================================================

4.3)  Miscellaneous documentation on the PIC

MicroChip Technology Incorporated
- application notes



ED Teck. Pubs
Fred Eady
407-454-9905
BBS 407-454-3198
Writes articles for popular magazines.  Has a PIC programmer kit for $70.
BBS available, good source of information, very helpful.

Parallax
Stamps and programmer, etc.
BBS 916-624-7101
Help 916-624-8333

AP Circuits
BBS 1-403-291-9342 (Canada)
Can download EASYTRAX(V2.06), various utilities, GERBER file proofers, etc.


=============================================================================


5)  What's next.                                        13/06/94 02:02:12

   I'm working on it...... Suggestions welcome.


   I would like to thank the following individuals who have
contributed to this accumulation.

       Jory Bell                       <spam_OUTjoryspam_OUTspamspam_OUTmit.edu>
       Don Lekei                       <72677.2623spam_OUTspamcompuserve.com>
       Eric Smith                      <RemoveMEericKILLspamspam@spam@apache.telebit.com>
       Jeff Dague                      <jpdaguespamBeGonespam.....iastate.edu>
       Steven M. Davidson              <KILLspamdavidsonspam.....its.bldrdoc.gov>
       Ian King                        <spam_OUTiekspamKILLspamarrc.salf.ac.uk>
       kalam ?                         <RemoveMEasmRemoveMEspamEraseMEkalam.butterfly.com>
       David B. Thomas                 <KILLspamdavidsonspamspamBeGoneits.bldrdoc.gov>
       Martin Vuille                   <martin.vuillespamspamsynapse.org>

NOTE: .......If your name should be here, apologies. some of the above has
been dredged from Jory's archives in such a fashion as to make it less than
convenient to work out with whom it originated.



______________________________________________________________________________
RemoveMEpicsspamBeGonespamRemoveMEtakdsign.demon.co.uk                     Home of the PIC CODE LIBRARY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Disclaimer: Inclusion of any code samples in this document does NOT imply
any approval or guarantee as to the suitability of said samples for any
purpose whatsoever other than as a self-training aid.  I.E. If it blows
your ICE, trashes your hard disc, wipes your backups, burns your building
down or just plain don't work, #### IT AIN'T MY FAULT #### In the event of
judicial ruling to the contrary, any liability shall be limited to the sum
charged on you by me for the aforementioned document OR nothing, whichever
is the lower.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       Copyright (c) 1994 by T.A.Kellett, all rights reserved.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Tom Kellett                                     < KILLspamTomspamBeGonespamtakdsign.demon.co.uk >
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


'PIC Development Software'
1994\06\17@123920 by trisys

flavicon
face
TRISYS, Inc has placed two shareware packages 'idesw.zip' and 'mvsw.zip'
on ftp server ftp.sics.se in the /pub/mchipsoft directory area. (they
should be made available for download by the sysop in a day or so, after
he checks them out) Give them a try.. mail any comments to the
email server @spam@picSTOPspamspam@spam@figment.mit.edu, or directly to TRISYS, Inc at
trisysspamBeGonespamspamBeGoneramp.com

If you are not interesed in these environments.. Some windows
help files for the PIC processors have been uploaded there also.
If you are downloading the environments, do not download the help
files also because they are zipped with 'idesw.zip' and 'mvsw.zip'

idesw.zip - This is a shareware Windows 3.1 MDI compliant integrated
editor and assembler for the Microchip PIC family of parts.
It supports the PIC16C5X, PIC16C6X, PIC16C7X, PIC16C8X, and PIC17C42
processors.

mvsw.zip - this is a shareware Windows 3.1 MDI compliant editor,
assembler, and simulator for the Microchip PIC16C 54, 55, 56,57, & 58
processors. It provides the following capabilities.
* Integrated editor/assembler/error windows.
       - Editor provides Undo, Cut, Copy, Paste.
       - Supports multiple fonts & Windows printer driverrs.
       - All windows (error, listing, and memory) updated after
         assembly automatically.
       - Double click on error line takes you to the source
         code line with the error.
* Simulation
       - Quadrature based simulation. Single step by quadrature.
       - Allow modification of any file register or special
         function register at any quadrature, as well as the
         instruction pipeline, stack, prescaler etc.
* Timing/Stimulus
       - Set and display testpoints on processor pins.
       - Create stimuls for processor pins.
       - Does not support printing at this time.
       - Connect output from one pin to input of another.
       - Registered version supports simultaneous multiple processor
         simulation. Useful for testing/simulating communication between
         processors.
       - Registered version supports connection of one processorr pin
         to another processor pin.
* Breakpoints on.
       - Read or Write
       - Register value 'is greater than', 'is less than', and
         'masked with' a value is true.
       - Break on line in listing window.

The registered version will support COD output format for compatiblity
with Microchips burners and emulators. The shareware version supports
only the PIC16C54 processor while the registered version supports the
entire PIC 16C5X processor family. The registered version supports
multiple processor simulations.

Additional processor families will be developed to support the entire
Microchip PIC processor families. Registered users will be notified
when these processors additions are available.

All the documentation for both the Assembler and MicroView environments
is online.

We are currently working on native language versions of these products
and will have them available soon. If you would be interested in
assisting language conversions to your native language, please contact
TRISYS at  spamBeGonetrisysspamramp.com

Please send any questions or comments to:
               spam_OUTtrisysSTOPspamspamramp.com.
We can also be reached on the Microchip bulletin board. Post messages
in the 3rdparty forum or send mail to trisys.

                               Enjoy
                   David Foringer (TRISYS, Inc.)
 


'[72677.2623@CompuServe.COM: Re: Errors from MPALC]'
1994\06\18@154102 by eric

flavicon
face
At his request, I am forwarding a message from Don Lekei
<RemoveME72677.2623spamspamCompuServe.COM>.  For the record, I completely agree with him,
and I use the TRIS instruction routinely.  In my previous message which Don
quotes, I just presented all three ways of accessing the TRISA and TRISB
registers.

I should point out for the benefit of those using the 16C71 that the TRISA
register on the current parts doesn't actually have a bit for PA4.  If you
write anything to PORTA with bit four low, it will drive PA4 low regardless of
what you have written to the TRISA register.  The errata covers this, but in a
confusing manner.  Mike Jedrezewski (sp?) of Microchip told me that there is a
new rev of the 16C71 silicon due out soon which is supposed to fix all known
errata, including the missing TRISA bit.  I've also heard unofficially that
a 16C71A should be out in early '95, with improved performance (possibly
>20 MHz) and lower power consumption.

Eric
------------------------ Don Lekei's message follows  ------------------------
>Date: 18 Jun 94 13:23:40 EDT
>From: Don Lekei <TakeThisOuT72677.2623spamspamRemoveMECompuServe.COM>
>To: "INTERNET:KILLspamericspamspamspam_OUTapache.telebit.com" <ericRemoveMEspamapache.Sunnyvale.Telebit.COM>
>Subject: Re: Errors from MPALC

In the previous message, Eric Smith refers to Microchip's documentation:

>Microchip is trying to discourage people from using the tris instructions,
>and claim that they may be removed from future parts.

This advice from Microchip is some of the highest ranked BAD ADVICE in the
history of PIC programming. It is right up there with starting your code at
location zero in any PIC (other than an '84)!

You should ALWAYS use the TRIS instruction, unless it is necessary to
modify the TRIS register (eg. bi-directional i/o or open-drain emulation).

1)  It is better to maintain code compatability and portability to the
existing economical PIC parts (5x) rather than some mythical future part.

2)  TRIS takes less code and fewer cycles than accessing registers in bank
2.

3)  MPSIM will not correctly track changes directly adjusting bank 2
registers.

4)  If Microchip ever actually does remove the TRIS instruction on a future
part, then it is far more portable to define a macro to emulate the TRIS
instruction on that part, than to cut-off backward compatability with 16c5x
parts.

I just HAD to jump in here, it makes my skin crawl whenever I read that
part of the data sheet.

- Don

PS. Another handy way to start a lively thread is to mention using EQU to
define data addresses.


'Beta testers wanted for disassembler'
1994\06\21@122724 by -robotics-research-centre.salford.ac.uk (Ian King)n/a

flavicon
face
Dear all,

I need some beta testers for a piece of software I will be releasing to the net.
The program is a fairly basic pic disassembler, and I need to have as much code
run through it and checked as possible.

Now I realise this is NOT the most useful piece of software around (but it may
be useful to decode programs that have been "lost" in .asm format).
It is however a start on the road to an assembler/debugger system. The major
_feature_ of these tools being that they may be compiled/run on any machine
or OS having a C compiler capable of building them.

The disassembler decodes from an INHX16 style file (default output of MPALC) and
produces Microchip standard mnemonics.  It will decode either 12 or 14 bit pic
code.

The beta testers in return for testing and suggestions will receive the huge kudos (?)
of having their names in the readme file :-) and some input on the final release
version of this and any other code.

The final bugs^H^H^H^Hfeatures are currently being hammered out, but the code should
be delivered (via e-mail) early next week to those lucky people who want it.

=%-)

Ian

p.s. I will just be supplying the C code, so beta testers must have a compiler
for their platform!  The code has been developed on a Sun (Solaris 2.3) using Sun's own
compiler. I can produce MS-DOS and Linux targets (I hope ;-) for a final release but
others (amigas and macs) will require someone else to build them for me (hint hint).

p.p.s. The final release will probably be released as "postcard-ware" i.e. licence to use
requires the sending of a postcard of your hometown to me...



'16C71 problems with RA being cleared'
1994\06\21@142528 by johnsonj

flavicon
face
I am programming an 71' series and whenever I issue a clrb ra.4 which is
the open collector pin all of the RA ports are set to 0.  This is really
screwing me over hard as the other RA ports are control lines that
respond 4x as fast as my PIC thus I end up over driving my lines.  Any
ideas? is this a flaw with the 71?  If you think you know what i am
talking about and want more info email me.  I really could use some help.
later
       John

_____________________________________________________________________________
John Johnson                   |If it's not OS/2.|EraseMEjohnsonjSTOPspamspamRemoveMEccwf.cc.utexas.edu
                              |It's crap!       |spam_OUTjohnsonjRemoveMEspamEraseMEghostwheel.bga.com
OOOO SSSS    /2222  2222    11 |                 |
O  O S      /    2     2     1 |"We need breath- |"Bite me." Tom Servo
O  O SSSS  /  2222  2222     1 |-ing room!"      |
O  O    S /   2     2    ..  1 |     Bill Gates  |"I want to decide who lives
OOOO SSSS/    2222  2222 .. 111|                 |and who dies" Crow T. Robot
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


'Parts, serial number'
1994\06\21@160115 by Stefan R. Jacob

picon face
> frame and the number is 244364266 not 144 as I mentioned in another
> letter. If you can check out the year for me I would appreciate it. I

Howdy,

it so happens that we are in possession of a complete stack of genuine
old British Leyland microfilms picked up at a bankruptcy auction (they
were stashed away in the drawer of a desk we took along!). So, courtesy of
(now defunct) BRANDO Automotives of Holland, here are the details for
your serial number #244364266 :

* 1964 ser.IIA 88" swb (non-station) 4 cyl.petrol lh-drive export version *

Will that do?

   So long,

Stefan R. Jacob  <TakeThisOuT100043.2400RemoveMEspam@spam@CompuServe.com>
LROC of Hessen
Wiesbaden, Germany


'16C71 problems with RA being cleared'
1994\06\21@232836 by johnsonj

flavicon
face
On Tue, 21 Jun 1994, Eric Smith wrote:

> Is "CLRB" one of the Parallax instructions?  What does it actually assemble
> into?  Hopefully a "BCF"?  I avoid the Parallax instructions like the plague;
> IMHO all they do is obfuscate the code.  Sometimes I define macros, but
> certainly not to make it look like an 8051.
I actually like them.  While not true Microchip instructions, I think they
read better.  In actuality all they are are macros.  Plus I am overly fond of
their simulator, Microchips is better in some places though, well most
actually.

>
> There are various wierd problems that can occur when you try to use BCF and
> BSF (or any other read/modify/write instructions, such as INCF) on I/O ports.
> I can't be sure exactly what's happening without knowing more about how you
> are using the other port A pins.
I called microchip and they knew of the problem.  It deals with the fact that
ra.4 does not have tris bit for it.  Screw up in the mask.  If i had
taken time to dl the eratta sheets on teh 71 I would have found this out.
And yes it does stim directly from your above statement.  when you bcf
5,4 the whole tris reg gets messed up and you can end up driving the pin
w/o any output(ouch)
>
> A common problem (but not necessarily the one troubling you) is that the the
> read/modify/write instructions read the actual voltage level at the pin, not
> the bit in the output latch.  If external hardware drives the lines this
> can cause unexpected behavior.  For instance, if you write $ff to the port, and
> external hardware is forcing PA0 low, and then you do a BCF porta,4, the output
> latch for PA0 will be set to 0, and the chip will start driving it low.
ummm yup exactly what happend.  Ended up sucking a whole lot of current.  
Almost 200mA.
>
> I'd recommend writing the entire port with a MOVWF when you want to change it.
> (Microchip recommends this also for a different reason).
wheter you recommend it or not is irrelevent :) its the only way around
my problem.  So in fact your suggestion is not mearly a suggestion but
law..
thanks for your help. and to all of the others who offered me help too..
live long and PIC, sorry I just had to say it
_____________________________________________________________________________
John Johnson                   |If it's not OS/2.|EraseMEjohnsonjRemoveMEspamccwf.cc.utexas.edu
                              |It's crap!       |spamjohnsonj.....spamspamghostwheel.bga.com
OOOO SSSS    /2222  2222    11 |                 |
O  O S      /    2     2     1 |"We need breath- |"Bite me." Tom Servo
O  O SSSS  /  2222  2222     1 |-ing room!"      |
O  O    S /   2     2    ..  1 |     Bill Gates  |"I want to decide who lives
OOOO SSSS/    2222  2222 .. 111|                 |and who dies" Crow T. Robot
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


'Programing OTP-Versions'
1994\06\22@022454 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Hello, does anybody know if it is possible to erase the OTP-versions
   of the PIC 16C54 by X-rays? And if, how long does it take at what kind
   of x-ray have I to use?

"reasonable sources" say it won't work.  Xray frequencies "hot" enough
to get through the package go right through the silicon as well...

BillW, whose company was once stuck with a lot of obsolete microcode
      in expensive, high speed, OTP EPROMS...

1994\06\22@045832 by nger

flavicon
face
Hello, does anybody know if it is possible to erase the OTP-versions of the
PIC 16C54 by X-rays? And if, how long does it take at what kind of x-ray
have I to use?



1994\06\22@065041 by Richard Steven Walz

flavicon
face
Listen up, folks. From an old physicist here of no particular note: The thing
we wish to accomplish is to erase EPROM cells in OTP's, which, near as I can
tell are just the die without the quartz window and more expensive ceramic
package. Now, I'll agree that most of all x-rays will pass right through,
(although a heavy bombardment over a long period of time might work), the
best way to erase EPROM is by the production of <273nm photons on the die
by x-ray flourescence. Now this may take finding the right energy x-rays
by fiddling the voltage up and down till you find the threshhold of best
flourescent conversion at that frequency. Another thing which might need to
be explored is whether another sheet of x-ray flourescent material might be
placed over and under the OTP's which would bring the x-rays down to the level
needed to further flouresce downward toward 273nm. It is possible that the
x-ray tubes commonly used are higher energy than will properly or most
efficiently flouresce. A good bet is metals and heavier elements. These are
options that someone with an industrial x-ray machine might attempt. It very
well could be that x-rays at some common medical or inustrial voltage could
do it. If it hasn't been researched, it sure sounds like it would be worth
exploring. Geez, you could start your own business erasing them for a song,
if it worked!
-Steve Walz   rstevewspam_OUTspam@spam@armory.com
---------------------------------------------

From: William "Chops" Westfield <.....billwspamspam.....cisco.com>
To: radingerKILLspamspamEraseMEzinfo.zess.uni-siegen.de (Christoph Radinger)
Cc: EraseMEpic@spam@spam@spam@figment.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Programing OTP-Versions
Message-Id: <@spam@CMM.0.90.2.772277094.billwspamspamKILLspamglare.cisco.com>

   Hello, does anybody know if it is possible to erase the OTP-versions
   of the PIC 16C54 by X-rays? And if, how long does it take at what kind
   of x-ray have I to use?

"reasonable sources" say it won't work.  Xray frequencies "hot" enough
to get through the package go right through the silicon as well...

BillW, whose company was once stuck with a lot of obsolete microcode
      in expensive, high speed, OTP EPROMS...

'PIC Development Software'
1994\06\22@105031 by tom

flavicon
picon face
> Date:          Fri, 17 Jun 1994 15:38:04 GMT
> To:            spamBeGonepicRemoveMEspamEraseMEfigment.mit.edu
> From:          David Foringer <RemoveMEtrisysKILLspamspamRemoveMEramp.com>
> Subject:       PIC Development Software

> TRISYS, Inc has placed two shareware packages 'idesw.zip' and 'mvsw.zip'
> on ftp server ftp.sics.se in the /pub/mchipsoft directory area. (they
> should be made available for download by the sysop in a day or so, after

This is now available; Has anyone managed to get a run out of it yet ?
I tried to run the demo progs and get errors like;

can't POP - stack full

Or words to that effect.  


I also get run time errors <stack overflow> Same problem ??
Comments anyone ?
--
Cheers
                                     Tom


'PIC Software Development.'
1994\06\22@131629 by trisys

flavicon
face
Tom:
 I have gotten one other report of a <stack overflow>. I cannot
duplicate this on my machine. Could you tell me what you are
doing to generate this? I'll upload a updated version soon, with
a larger stack, maybe this will help.

The error can't POP stack full? This does not exist in
the software (I assume you are using MicroView). But to you
get these kinds of errors while running the simulation or
is it just a Windows message?

I have gotten a bug report on the assembler (The same is
use for both Assemble and MicroView) It is:
A bad mnemonic after a lable is skipped over. It should
be flagged as an error! The work around is to not put
a mnemonic on the same line as a label. (Or just write
perfect code the first time :-).
It has already been fixed but we are adding a few other
upgrades to the assembler before putting it back on
the MicroChip BBS and the ftp.sics.se  sites.

Any other comments, error reports, and suggestions are
greatly appreciated.

Another note. There are supplemental instructions
discussed in some Microchip documentation. (like clrb)
which are not discussed in the part data sheets.
We have created an include file which has these defined
as macros. It can be downloaded from the Microchip BBS.
We will include it with the new zip file when we upload
the new version. (comming SOON).

To get to the Microchip BBS:
 - Call your compuserve access number. There is a
   toll free number to find out what it is (I don't
   know it)
 - When you connect. It plus then return.
 - At the prompt type :   MCHIPBBS
That all!!  Trisys files can be found in the /3rdparty
forum and library.

               Thanks (Please keep comments comming)
                       David Foringer (TRISYS, Inc.)


'PIC Development Software.'
1994\06\22@135522 by trisys

flavicon
face
Hi.
 On stack overflow problem reported with the TRISYS
assembler and MicroView.
 The assembler does not currently process the '.' (period)
operator. (Don't use it!) The next version will support
the period for bit representations. (i.e.  BTFSS STATUS.C)
 Hope this helps. If you are having any other problems
Let us know and we will fix them ASAP!
               David Foringer (TRISYS, Inc).


'BASIC stamp?'
1994\06\22@163155 by Srikanth Viswanathan

flavicon
face
Hi,  I'm interested in use the PIC microcontroller for one of my
projects so I'd like to explore the different languages that I can use.
What exactly is the BASIC stamp?  Compiler?  Interpreter?

Thanks!

Sri


'1684 assembler required '
1994\06\23@054627 by Sean Lange

picon face

Hi guys,
I've just started playing with these parts and they look great!!.
I have made the programmer for the 1684 that uses the parallel port,
but unfortunately the assembler I have appears to be only for the 17xx
family (its called asm17). Is there a PD assembler for the 1684 and if
so where can I track it down. TIA.

- sean

'apnset02.zip corrupt '
1994\06\23@104351 by kellenbe

flavicon
face

Hi folks,

I4ve had some problems unzipping the file
"/pub/mchipsoft/mchipsoft/picapp/apnset02.zip" at ftp.sics.se.
(double-zipped file math.zip is corrupted)
Could anybody unzip it ??? I used the newest version (2.04g) of PKWARE's
pkunzip.exe for DOS. PKZIPFIX didn't work either. Perhaps this file should be
renewed! Others are OK.

Does anybody already have some experience with the MPASM (by Byte Craft Limited
of Waterloo and MCHIP itself)??? I got MPASM___.ZIP from the MCHIP BBS.
It seems to become the new enhenced general assembler for the PIC families or
is it already destributed along with any HW-tools? I'm just working with
the PICSTART-16B. There should also be a C-Compiler (MPC) soon! Am I right?
Please give me some respond about it...

By the way, for my research (MEMS) I designed a simple "Multi process Kernel"
for the PIC 16C71. All my programms (3 to be exact) now base on it. The main
part is an interrupt manager which branches to several processes (subroutines)
and it supports a serial line (RS 232/485 - half or full duplex) by interrupt
up to 19.6kB (8N1). A simple protocoll is suggested and only 7 file registers
are used for its minimum running (CRCs and double FSRs are also available
(+4bytes)).
The kernel exchanges serial data via two fileregisters and Ready/Send flags.
Errors are also flagged.
The usage of this "MpK" is fast and easy: fill up the empty structure with your
own code, data and initialization.

Is there any interest for it ???

I indent to send the code to the PIC code library at TakeThisOuTtomspamtakdsign.demon.co.uk!


Thanks

- Michael Kellenberger

'1684 assembler required'
1994\06\23@113557 by trisys

flavicon
face
>
>Hi guys,
> I've just started playing with these parts and they look great!!.
>I have made the programmer for the 1684 that uses the parallel port,
>but unfortunately the assembler I have appears to be only for the 17xx
>family (its called asm17). Is there a PD assembler for the 1684 and if
>so where can I track it down. TIA.
>
>- sean
>

Get PASM from the microchip bulletin board. It supports the
microchip family. It can also be found at ftp.sics.se in the
/pub/mchipsoft/mchipsoft directory. This is BASED.
If you want windows, get 'idesw.zip' from ftp.sics.se in the
/pub/mchipsoft/trisys directory. This is shareware.
       David Foringer. (TRISYS, Inc.)


'apnset02.zip corrupt'
1994\06\23@113559 by trisys

flavicon
face
>
>Hi folks,
>
>I4ve had some problems unzipping the file
>"/pub/mchipsoft/mchipsoft/picapp/apnset02.zip" at ftp.sics.se.
>(double-zipped file math.zip is corrupted)
>Could anybody unzip it ??? I used the newest version (2.04g) of PKWARE's
>pkunzip.exe for DOS. PKZIPFIX didn't work either. Perhaps this file should be
>renewed! Others are OK.
>
>Does anybody already have some experience with the MPASM (by Byte Craft
Limited
>of Waterloo and MCHIP itself)??? I got MPASM___.ZIP from the MCHIP BBS.
>It seems to become the new enhenced general assembler for the PIC families or
>is it already destributed along with any HW-tools? I'm just working with
>the PICSTART-16B. There should also be a C-Compiler (MPC) soon! Am I right?
>Please give me some respond about it...

Yes there will be a C compiler out soon. I think it already is.. from BYTECRAFT.
There was a mail message earlier in this mail forum which had much better
detail about what was available.. But I did not save it sorry... Maybe
somone else will repost it?? (hint)

{Quote hidden}

Yea! sounds like a good start for a lot of projects!! Microchip should use
code pieces like that for their app notes..

>
>I indent to send the code to the PIC code library at spamBeGonetomKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTtakdsign.demon.co.uk!
>
>
>Thanks
>
>- Michael Kellenberger
>


               Thanks..
                       David Foringer (TRISYS, Inc.)

       


1994\06\23@115643 by Martin Nilsson

picon face
Michael,

You wrote:

> I4ve had some problems unzipping the file
> "/pub/mchipsoft/mchipsoft/picapp/apnset02.zip" at ftp.sics.se.
> (double-zipped file math.zip is corrupted)
> Could anybody unzip it ??? I used the newest version (2.04g) of PKWARE's
> pkunzip.exe for DOS. PKZIPFIX didn't work either. Perhaps this file should be
> renewed! Others are OK.

You are right. We are hoping for Alex Baker from Microchip to upload
new versions. We just got the following message at SICS:

{Quote hidden}

<text skipped>

> Alex Baker                                           Phone: +44 628 851077
> Norther European Field Applications Engineer         Fax:   +44 628 850259
> Arizona Microchip Technology                         Car:   +44 831 494921
> Email: Alex Baker on Microchip BBS or EraseMEalex.....spamKILLspammicrochp.demon.co.uk

So hopefully, the complete set of Microchip BBS files will soon be
available by anonymous ftp from ~ftp/pub/mchipsoft/ at sics.se.  Let's
keep up the pressure on Microchip becoming a full internetter!

Martin Nilsson
Swedish Institute of Computer Science    E-mail: spammnspamsics.se
Box 1263, S-164 28 Kista                 Fax: +46-8-751-7230
Sweden                                   Tel: +46-8-752-1574

'1684 assembler required'
1994\06\23@200310 by Don Lekei

picon face
Sean,
You can find ASPIC, a shareware assembler for ALL microchip processors in
the 3rdparty area on Microchip's BBS and allegedly at the ftp site as well.
It is 5 to 20 times faster than MPALC and far more powerful (for example
you can define BIT labels) allowing code like:
    BCF  WREN       ;(most processor dependant labels are predefined)
    BTFSS  MYBIT   ;define individual IO / File bits.


- Don

PS: Does anyone out there know how to get a file list of an FTP site
through Compuserve? Allegedly there is also a way to request files from
here too.


'MicroChip Seminar!'
1994\06\26@121246 by John Johnson

flavicon
face
It was great.  If you havent gotten to go to it and its still comming to
your city GO!  I got tons of loot from them.  New data books, EEPROMS,
and a $100 programmer whith $30 of chips in it and another one of those
niffty litle screwdrivers(that i always loose).  They also gave me a free
copy of there MPASM.EXE and the manual to it.  It was really
interesting to hear about their new products that they are comming out with.
Plus I learned  a lot about their product line.  All of my local venders
where there too.  I talked to all of them and sucked up really hard(they
did too).  I got them ALL to send me samples of teh whole product line.  
Pioneer already sent me the entire set(seminar was WED).  I have a
EEPROM of everything: 54,55,56,57,64,71 and the EE 84.  Plus she also gave
me two of each of the OTP's.  For $100 i got 10x what it cost me to go.
later
       John

1994\06\26@140515 by dthomas

flavicon
face
Wow!  So how do we find out if it's coming to a city near us??

David

1994\06\26@184944 by michael.blyler

flavicon
face
    Companies like Microchip and Maxim are generous, and they bend over
backwards to treat little guys (onesy-twosy quantity users) like us just
like they do their large quantity consumers.  We should not abuse that
all-too-often-missing respect by being pigs.  I say this with no venom
toward John.  I used to be EXACTLY the same way.  I've been to many
seminars (including this one), some free, others for cost.  Distributor reps
are happy to give samples, especially if your project might lead to volume
purchasing, but they do have finite sample budgets.  They would rather give
a sample to 10 different developers than give one guy 10 parts, and two
years later have nine of them still be on his shelf.  I've been told by
several to ask for what you really need when you really need it, but don't
get parts just because you can get them.  Remember, we're all in this
together.  Abuse of generosity leads to less generosity.  We have to give
respect in order to get it.  Don't kill the goose for us all.

    As for the seminar itself, it was good, but I thought something was
missing.  The presentation only had one viewgraph showing the architecture
of the PIC processors, and very little discussion of their Harvard
architecture implementation.  I had the feeling that I must have been the
only one in the room who had never written a PIC program before, and that
the seminar was more intended to show new parts to current users than to
introduce users of competitor parts to the PIC.  Coming (NOT comming) from
Motorola 6801/05/11 programming, the PIC seems a bit strange.  I know it's
just a matter of digesting the material in the data book and getting a PIC
program under my belt, but I was surprised that the seminar "loot" did not
include a PIC software programmer's reference/guide.  A thirty minute
discussion of the architecture, registers, and instructions would have saved
me a lot of time getting started.  I second John's opinion, though, that the
seminar is well worth the price of admission.
----------------------------------------------------------------
In message Sun, 26 Jun 1994 12:12:45 -0500 (CDT),
 John Johnson <johnsonjSTOPspamspambga.com>  writes:

{Quote hidden}

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael L. Blyler                | michael.blylerSTOPspamspamKILLspamgtri.gatech.edu
Georgia Tech                     |
GTRI/EOEML                       | Georgia Tech Research Institute
Baker Building Room 214          | VOICE (404) 894-3324, 874-4987
Atlanta, Georgia  30332-0800     | FAX   (404) 894-5073, 894-6285
======================================================================

'mpsim and watchdog'
1994\06\27@030333 by nger

flavicon
face
I have a problem with the program  mpsim and the watchdog-generator at  the
PIC 16c54. My program is resetet by the watchdog only the first time after I
called the sleep comand. There is no time-out after the second sleep comand.
Is it an error of mine or a bug in the mpsim?


'PIC starter kits'
1994\06\28@040632 by Luciano Veronese

flavicon
face
Hi, I have seen in the PIC data book that many starter kits are available
from Microchip. Since I'll go to the USA next month and have some free time,
I'd like to know what are the prices of these kits and where to get them.

Thank you all


'Beta Pic Disassembler'
1994\06\29@085450 by -robotics-research-centre.salford.ac.uk (Ian King)n/a

flavicon
face
Dear Beta testers

Here is the the first release of my pic dissassembler.
If you can't handle uudecodeing, uncompressing and untaring then
mail me and I will see what I can do.

Thanks

=%-)

Ian

P.S. The code is in unix standard ascii so DOS users will have to add
    ^M's to the end of all the lines (use the unix2dos command if you
    have it).




Attachment converted: sheep!:picdis.tar.Z (????/----) (00001410)

'Is it real or is it PicBuster?'
1994\06\29@231333 by SMARTSIGNAL

flavicon
face
Can anyone point me at a description of the PicBuster contraption
which I've been reading about on the MicroChip BBS?  I have read about
this gizmo - and remain unable to tell what it is or how it does
its putatively nasty task of dumping eprom in secured pic 54 series
parts.  Has there been any discussion of the picbuster here?
 
It is a very nice name though, given its function.  - JGN


'Useful Macros for Store Allocation on 16Cxx Chips '
1994\07\01@112019 by john
flavicon
picon face

Here are a couple of MPALC macros I found useful for storage
allocation on PICs.  They're for when you wat a register allocated
but don't care which; you can choose whether to allocate from the
top or bottom end of the register set.  The parameters given here
do for 16C71 and 16C84 PICs, for others change RAM_Start and MAX_RAM.

If you like these, I also have some code for implementing timed finite
state machine dispatch (a machine is a set of states;  the current state
is executed after a delay specified as a number of calls of the dispatcher;
states can set the next state and next delay to dispatch to;  for N instances
of machines, it uses 2N+2 registers, 2N of them permanently and 2 as temps
for dispatch).  I also have a master transmitter and slave receiver I^2 C
implementation for PICs (16C84 or 16C71) running at > 6MHz that supports
multimaster operation (in theory).  If you are interested, say so, and I'll
post the code.

John Hallam, AI Dept., Edinburgh University.

-------------------cut here for MPALC code---------------------------

;******************************** Register File Store Allocation
;
; These macros allocate store from the register file.  If there is
; enough store they succeed, defining the specified label.  If not,
; they fail, leaving the label undefined and so inducing errors.

       RAM_Start       equ     0Ch             ; First GP Register
       MAX_RAM         equ     30h             ; Last GP Register + 1

       RAM_Lo          set     RAM_Start       ; Current low water mark
       RAM_Hi          set     MAX_RAM         ; Current high water mark

       AllocHi macro   label,amount            ; Allocate store called <label>

               if      RAM_Lo+amount > RAM_Hi  ; Not enough registers  
               exitm                           ; ERROR EXIT
               else
               RAM_Hi  set     RAM_Hi-amount   ; Adjust mark
               label   equ     RAM_Hi          ; Allocate at high end
               endif
               endm

       AllocLo macro   label,amount            ; Allocate store called <label>

               if      RAM_Lo+amount > RAM_Hi  ; Not enough registers  
               exitm                           ; ERROR EXIT
               else
               label   equ     RAM_Lo          ; Allocate at low end
               RAM_Lo  set     RAM_Lo+amount   ; Adjust mark
               endif
               endm


'The CCS C Compiler (Milwaukee guy)'
1994\07\01@163455 by gorden

flavicon
face
Hi,

I bought the PIC C compiler from CCS (The guy in Milwaukee) thinking it
would make programming 16c5x's even easier.  (I also have the Parallax
PGM & EMU)  And reallly I can only say positive things about the compiler.

It is a simple TurboVision app, and truly easy to use and convenient.  So
I have a question for anyone who may also be using this compiler.  I am
using the serial library to do printf()'s getchar()'s etc, and of course
the code works fine when I use an RS232 chip, but I would like to take the
signal directly off the PICs pin.  The problem with this is that I need to
send the complement of each bit if I do it that way.  I could use a 7404,
but then I might as well use an RS232 chip.  Does anyone know how to change
how the serial library works so I can do it this way?

TIA

--Jason

'Reading/Writing data EEPROM on 16C84 '
1994\07\03@002203 by manningc

flavicon
face
Enough...

I have spent three evenings trying to write a "hello world" style
program to access the 16C84's data EEPROM.

Can anybody offer some help (eg send source for a very short EEPROM r/w
program)?

Thanx

Charles

'False Alarm -- Accessing EEPROM '
1994\07\04@042150 by manningc

flavicon
face
Sorry about the mistake! If I had one IQ point less, I would probably be a
plant.

Here it is in case anybody needs to access eeprom data.

-- Charles

eeread
; reads from position in eeadr into eedata
       bsf     status,rp0
       bsf     eecon1,rd
       bcf     status,rp0
       return

eewrite
; writes stuff in eedata into position at eeadr
       bsf     status,rp0
       bsf     eecon1,wren
       movlw   55h
       movwf   eecon2          ;<-- had been movlw eecon2
       movlw   0AAh
       movwf   eecon2          ;<-- had been movlw eecon2
       bsf     eecon1,wr
wait_wr btfsc   eecon1,wr
       goto    wait_wr
       bcf     status,rp0
       return


'Networking the PIC and/or the BASIC STAMP...'
1994\07\06@005243 by Bob Armstrong

flavicon
face

 Has anyone networked several PICs (or STAMPs) together ?
Did you use RS-485 ?  How about simply wiring toegether several
open-drain outputs on different PICs ?  Are there any examples
of software for networking ?

Thanks,
Bob Armstrong
@spam@bob.....spamspampoco-adagio.santa-clara.ca.us

1994\07\06@102756 by mbmoore

flavicon
face
Yes, we (Custom Hardware Engineering) have been networking the PIC for
home-automation products using our "RS232-BUS".  It's simple, easy to use,
and an open protocol.  We simply connect multiple PICs together on an RS232
line.  Their is a transmit and a recieve line (just like RS232).  The
transmit line connects to one of the data lines of multiple PICs through a
large resistor (1meg).  So, there isn't much drain on this line.  The
receive line is tied to -12V through a 2.2K resistor somewhere on the bus
and is tied to an opto-isolator which can pull the line to +12V by a normally
off pin on each PIC.  When the communication is only between a "host"
(normally a PC), and the other devices on the bus, the data protocol is
simply two bytes of address data followed by two bytes of command/data.  The
devices then return their address followed by two bytes of response data
(if needed).  It is possible for devices to speak to one another on the bus
but in this case, it is required that the device respond in some manner, so
the sender knows that a collision has not occured.  

For more specifics, feel free to write me back.  Also, a quicky - we are
offering a line of home-automation products that work over our RS232-BUS
protocol.  At present, we have a temperature sensor and a thermostat based
on the PIC and this protocol but we will have much more in the coming months.
We are also looking at offering kits if anyone is interested.  To get on our
mailing list, just respond to this note asking to be placed on it and I'll
add you.   We won't send out lots of mail - just notify you of new products
and any information you may want/need concerning out RS232-BUS devices.


*****************************************************************************
*  Paul Greenwood  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  Custom Hardware Engineering  *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*  "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from MAGIC."  *
*                                 - Arthur C. Clarke                        *
*****************************************************************************

'Networking the PIC and/or the BASIC STAMP... '
1994\07\06@122105 by Edward Cheung

flavicon
face

>From: Mark <spammbmoore.....spam.....bga.com>
>and an open protocol.  We simply connect multiple PICs together on an RS232
>line.  Their is a transmit and a recieve line (just like RS232).  The

This sounds a little like RS485.  I am curious why you decided not to
take this route as this would make you more compatible with other products
(including the line of home automation modules from Circuit Cellar).

YOurs, Ed

+---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
|          Edward Cheung, Ph.D.         |  The opinions expressed herein    |
|Satellite Servicing Robotics Laboratory|    do not necessarily reflect     |
|    NASA Goddard Space Flight Center   |       those of my employers'      |
|         Code 714.1, Bldg T11B         |                                   |
|          Greenbelt, MD 20771          |                                   |
|   301-286-1269(office) 286-1717(fax)  |  My next book:                    |
| Internet: cheung.....spamasylum.gsfc.nasa.gov | Statistics, Demos and Other Lies  |
+---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+


'ASPIC bug'
1994\07\06@181922 by Don Lekei

picon face
A bug was just found yesterday in ASPIC: The internal definitions
of the bits in EECON1 are out by 1. As an interum fix, you should add
the following definitions to your declaration file (eg. REGS.ASM):

;REGS2 is defined as:
;        DEFSEG  REGS2,$80,$8C           ;special regs - bank2
;
         .seg  REGS2

               .ds 1
OPTION:         .ds 1   ;option register

OPTINIT         = %00001000     ;default OPTION register
                 ;||||||||
                 ;|||||||+---- \
                 ;||||||+----- |- Prescaler exponent
                 ;|||||+------ /
                 ;||||+------- PSA    : Prescaler dest: 1=WDT, 0=RTCC
                 ;|||+-------- RTE    : RTCC edge: 1=v 0=^
                 ;||+--------- RTS    : RTCC Source 1=EXT 0=INT
                 ;|+---------- INTEDG : INT (RB0) Edge: 1=^ 0=v
                 ;+----------- RBPU   : Port B weak pullup: 0=on

               .ds 3           ;PCL,STATUS,FSR image
TRISA:          .ds 1
TRISB:          .ds 1
               .ds 1            ;(tris C - UNUSED)
;******************************************************************
;** EECON1
;** *** NOTE *** WE NEED TO RE-DEFINE THE EECON1 BITS TO FIX A BUG
;** IN ASPIC 5.32! **DO NOT USE THE INTERNAL DEFINITIONS!!!
;**
;******************************************************************

EECON1:
B.RD            = 0,*           ;EEPROM READ
B.WR            = 1,*           ;EEPROM WRITE
B.WREN          = 2,*           ;WRITE ENABLE
B.WRERR         = 3,*           ;Write error flag
B.EEIF          = 4,*           ;EE write complete interrupt flag

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Use the bit B.RD whereever you would have used RD, etc. This will
not in any way interfere with automatic bank management etc.

Sorry for any inconvenience which may have been caused. Registered
users will be able to pick up the new beta in a couple of weeks. If
you need an update emailed to you, drop me an e-line.

Regards,

Don Lekei
KILLspam72677.2623spam_OUTspamcompuserve.com
BBS: (604)597-3479


'added protection 4 pics '
1994\07\11@120601 by mycal

flavicon
face


Depending on how the pic programmer works, couldn't you just bust off
a data pin on the PIC?  As long as you didn't need it in your product
this could add another layer of protection.

mycal


'PIC Utilities for MPALC & I^2 C Code'
1994\07\13@072240 by john

flavicon
picon face

A while ago I mailed the list with some storage allocation macros and
a threat to supply interested parties with code for I^2 C bus protocol
communications and timed finite state machines.  Part of that is done:
but the code is moderately long so I suggest that you collect it, if you
are interested from ftp.dai.edinburgh.ac.uk, file /pub/user/pic-utils.tar.

You will find there the storage allocation macros I posted earlier, and some
other useful macros, e.g. a configuration macro that supports defaulting for
conditional compilation switches (the things that, when you forget to put
/D xxx=1 on the command line, MPALC says something like "line 1: Crit" and
crashes your machine ;-), as well as code for a multi-master I^2 C package
supporting master transmit and slave receive with interrupt detection of start
conditions (so your PIC doesn't have to spend all its time watching the bus).
The individual files in the directory in the tar file contain more information.

The finite state code will follow, as will other bits of the I^2 C stuff and
a neat UNIX c-shell script that calculates all the register values for a PIC
16C71 given clock rate, RTCC tick rate desired, and descriptions of the pin
functions (e.g. digital output, analogue input, digital tristate, etc.).  I
didn't manage to do this today, 'cos I've got to go on holiday in about an hour.
The code is there for people in a hurry -- in a month there will be more.

Have fun,

John Hallam                             spam_OUTjohnspamTakeThisOuTaifh.ed.ac.uk
Dept. of Artificial Intelligence
University of Edinburgh
5 Forrest Hill
Edinburgh EH1 2QL

'AT-Keyboard on PIC?'
1994\07\13@182436 by ben

flavicon
face
Hi,

Has anybody interfaced an AT-style keyboard to a PIC16C54 yet? I need  
something that gives a (preferably bi-directional) translation between an  
I^2 bus and a PC keyboard.

Thanks,
Ben

'PICs for trade.....'
1994\07\14@125803 by pablo

flavicon
face


Anyone interested in trading two UV erasable PIC16C57s for two UV
erasable 16C56s?  I'll pay postage too - preferrably two-day US Post.
The two I'll give you haven't been used and I prefer that the 56s I get
to have not been erased more than 5 times.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If outside IBM network boundaries  _^_  please pay attention to the following:
I speak for myself, not IBM. What (o o) I say MAY be wrong. No action should
be taken on my opinion alone. -oOO-(_)-OOo-  (.....pablo.....spamRemoveMEnetmail.austin.ibm.com)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

           -- Paul Greenwood --  (spam_OUTpabloTakeThisOuTspamEraseMEaustin.ibm.com)


'is there a known trap here.'
1994\07\14@181735 by eric

flavicon
face
> A secondary piece of code runs fine in the simulator, but nevers runs on
> the hardware (same hardware that runs a simplier but similar program).

If you ever use indirect addressing at all, make sure you set the FSR to zero
before you initialize any other memory.  The simulator probably starts with
zero in the FSR, but the chip doesn't.  Since two bits of the FSR determine
which register bank is directly accessible, if you don't initialize it your
direct RAM accesses will be to a random bank.  Then when you set the FSR
in preparation to use IND, you will lose all your data.

Then again, you might have an entirely different problem :-)

Cheers,
Eric

1994\07\14@182301 by Gary Gaskell

flavicon
picon face
Hi,

I have a PIC16c57.

An elementary program I wrote runs fine on it.

A secondary piece of code runs fine in the simulator, but nevers runs on
the hardware (same hardware that runs a simplier but similar program).

Is there any known traps that I particularly should watch when I goto the
hardware?  I have spent the last two weekends on this problem, so any
advice would be appreciate.  I am happy to send my code to anyone that
may help solve the problem.

regards

Gary Gaskell
DSTC
Cooperative Research Centre for Distributed Systems Technology
Queensland University of Technology
Ph    +61-7-864 1051            FAX +61-7-864 1282
                               Email EraseMEgaskellspamBeGonespamKILLspamdstc.qut.edu.au





1994\07\14@201554 by dthomas

flavicon
face
Pitfalls I have run into that may or may not be what you're up
against:

1. FSR in a 57 may be pointing to any register bank on startup.  The
simulator might assume bank 0 always.  Clear the FSR at the start of
all 57 code that cares about the bank switching ability.

2. I've found SLEEP to not work sometimes if it's in the second half
of a page.

3. You may have code that spills over a page boundary and uses jumps,
in which case it jumps to the wrong page.  My habit is to always
include org 0, org 100h, org 200h ... org 700h in every '57 program,
and put at least a nop at the top of each half page, so any time
anything spills over, the assembler will tell you.

4. Never compare RTCC directly with anything.  Move it to W first, or
the PIC will give erroneous results.  For instance, testing RTCC will
never set the Z bit, even though if you repeatedly move RTCC to W and
test W you'll see zero every 256 ticks.

5. Remember to reset page select registers after a call to a
subroutine not on the current page.  Otherwise, local jumps aren't ;^)

Good luck finding your problem.  I've discovered most of these by
putting checkpoints in where I flash LED's or whatever, until I figure
out what's wrong.

David

'Magnetic Card readers & PIC's'
1994\07\15@103926 by ttkk

flavicon
face
       I'm trying to design a keyless entry system using a magnetic card
reader. Has anyone out there done this using any of the PIC's? If so
which one and which card reader? Also what problems might I encounter
along the way.

                       Thanx for any help,

                                               TK

1994\07\15@133238 by mbmoore

flavicon
face
>       I'm trying to design a keyless entry system using a magnetic card
> reader. Has anyone out there done this using any of the PIC's? If so
> which one and which card reader? Also what problems might I encounter
> along the way.

If your card-reader is RS232, it won't be a problem because there is lots of
RS232 code around.  Since it looks like you're still trying to pic (pun
definately intended) one out, then look for RS232 type readers.  I have NOT
done this but it sounds pretty straight-forward.  One thing that I CAN think
of is - where are you going to store the card numbers?  You could hard-code
them into the PIC and re-program (use a UV erasable) them when needed.  Or,
you could have an external memory chip to keep the data in.  Or, you could
have all of them transmit back to a host computer.  If you are interested
in the latter, we might be able to put something together for you to do
RS232 from the reader, and then have the info. transmitted back to the host
over an RS232-BUS.  Write us back if you're interested and we'll talk about
the details.


*****************************************************************************
*  Paul Greenwood  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  ->  Custom Hardware Engineering  *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*  "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from MAGIC."  *
*                                 - Arthur C. Clarke                        *
*****************************************************************************

'16c5X disassembler'
1994\07\15@135736 by Don Lekei

picon face
There is a PIC disassembler available on the Microchip BBS that does
para-symbolic disassembly of 5X parts. It's probably on an ftp site
somewhere, but there is no way to find files or ftp sites from compuserve
that I know of.

-Don


'16c74 availability'
1994\07\16@075211 by rb

flavicon
face
>From: Alasdair MacLean <RemoveMEalasdairspamBeGonespamspamuk.ac.ed.aifh>


>I've seen replies to a few requests for help suggesting the use of
>either the 16C64 or 16C74. What I was wondering was whether the people
>suggesting using these ICs had ever used them themselves ? The reason I
>ask is because Microchip in the UK have been reluctant to make any
>promises of availability before Christmas for either, despite the fact
>that both have been advertised by distibutors already. I've heard
>rumours that Microchip have been having some production difficulties
>possibly due to their move to a new wafer fab facility for production of
>0.8 micron devices.
>I would be interested to hear if there is easier availability Stateside
>and if so, whether there have been any other problems with the new
>devices. I'm a bit reluctant to spend time developing a project based
>around either of these ICs only to find I can't get my hands on any or
>that there are problems with the device.

I telephoned Microchip UK the other to find out if I could get a sample
16c74 (or some) and they said that it was available, and I should contact my
dealer. I did so and several other dealers and they all said that they did
not have any in and did not expect any until October at the earliest. I
would also like to find out about programming tools for the '64 and '74 but
information seems to scarce.

Can anyone in the states get their hands on either tools or samples or both
and ship to the UK?
I am sure that there are other people here that would also like to get their
hands on these models - goodbye to those I/O pin blues!!!!.

Rory


'Floating point division error?'
1994\07\26@080909 by Derrick Early

flavicon
picon face
 Hello pic-list,
 
 I'm glad to see that the mail is starting to get out.
 
 I'm new to this user group, and as a result I have a lot of questions.
 I've tried out the floating point division provided in the float.asm
 file contained in the an526 application note files, and it doesn't
 seem to divide correctly for all numbers.  I get a zero result in
 many cases.
 
 Has anyone else tried this code?
 
 Yours,
 
 Derrick Early
 


'Bank switching behavior'
1994\07\26@113450 by greg

flavicon
face


I'm using Parallax's assembler to target a 16C57.  I noticed an
interesting behavior:  When I use LCALL instruction to jump to a
sub-routine in another bank, subsequent jump instructions (JNZ, etc)
in the main code don't work correctly.  

This is because the LCALL sets the bank select bits.  When the RET
instruction is executed, these don't get reset back to the bank of the
LCALL.  So any 9-bit jumps go to the bank where the subroutine was
located!  This is easily fixed by using LSET just before the RET to set
the bank select bits back to the calling bank (which means you can only
call that subroutine from one bank).

Example:


 org 00h               ; bank 0
 lcall other_sub       ; call subroutine in bank 1
 mov w, some_variable  ; do something afterwards
 xor w, #012h
 jnz :not_twelve       ; this jump will not work correctly! Bank select
 ...                   ; bits are set to 01.
 ..
:not_twelve             ; this line will not be reached
 ...                   ; instead, jnz will jump to somewhere in bank 1
 ..

 org 200h              ; bank 1
other_sub               ; bank select bits are 01 at this point
 ...
 ..
 RET                   ; bank select bits do not change with this ret.

-------

Anyone have insight on this problem?  The LSET workaround is OK, but I'm
wondering if I'm missing something.

--
Greg Bell        | "Ever see a company's sales drop sharply due to an
@spam@gregspamspamcqt.com     |  annoying ad campaign?  You will."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CommQuest Technologies, Inc.     (619) 633-1618 x133


'Bank switching behavior '
1994\07\27@013408 by dthomas

flavicon
face
You're right on top of the issue.  I have noticed this too.  My
current habit is to do this kind of thing:

       lcall   subroutine
       lset    $

The $ means the current address so that will always bring the page
select registers back to reality.  I definitely take advantage of
optimizing situations, though.  For example...

       lcall   subroutine
       lset    $
       ljmp    someplace

In the above you can remove the lset, since ljmp overwrites the page
select registers anyway.  The same is true if there are no intervening
jumps in a string of code between "long" calls.

       lcall   subroutine
       mov...
       add...
       or...
       anything but a jump....
       lcall   someplaceelse

I'll usually put lset $ in anyway, then comment it out with an
additional comment that it is not needed any why.

My basic strategy to getting the most out of the '57 is the following:


1. Start with

       org 0h
       nop
       org 100h
       nop
       org 200h
       nop
       ...
       org 700h
       nop

and add code from there (replace nops as needed).  That way if you
overflow a 256-word half-page, the assembler will tell you.  You might
also want to change the order so all the legitimate call destinations
are together:

       org 0h
       nop
       org 200h
       nop
       org 400h
       nop
       org 600h
       nop
       org 100h
       nop
       org 300h
       etc....

2. Using jump instructions, you can place subroutines at any location.
Of course, the actually destination of the call must be in the first
256 words of a given 512 word page.

For example
       org 0h
Subroutine
       ljmp    Sub_body

       org 100h
Sub_body
       actual code here
       ret

3. anything with a JMP PC+W (lookup table) must go in the first 256
words of a 512 word page.

4. Always explicitly clear FSR on startup.  Initial register bank
selection is random!  (Though it genuinely doesn't matter if you leave
FSR alone throughout your code.)

5. Unless you have grouped closely related subroutines, plan on using
LCALL always to call subroutines, and always follow with LSET $.  That
way you can relocate code at will.

6. Certain optimizations beyond the above are easy.  Long strings of
calls to the same routine can be one LCALL followed by a string of
simple CALLs and an LSET $ at the end, etc.

7. For some reason, I've had SLEEP fail when it's not in the first 256
words of a page.  Just so ya know.

David

'unused data lines on pic16c5x '
1994\07\27@120650 by mycal

flavicon
face


Hi,

I've done a project where I use only one data line on a pic16c54, it
is RA0 and it is set to output.  All other pins are set to input (default),
as I set port_a by :
       movlw 0eh
       tris  port_A

and don't init port_b.  Ok everything is fine here.  I am generating
a repeating pattern out of RA0, but the output is very dirty.  Then I
tied RA1 to +5 through a 5k resistor and all my problems went away,
RA0's output cleaned up.

In the book it says for lowest current consumption in sleep mode all I/O
pins should be at VDD or VSS.  I don't use sleep mode, but should I tie
all my unused pins to VDD or VSS?  Do I need the resistor if I tie them
to VDD?  Any other thoughts on what to do with unused pins?

Thanx,

mycal



1994\07\27@173253 by dpalmer

flavicon
face
Are you sure that you are not trying to source to much out of the output
pin?  I sometimes only use the lower 2 pins on port A, because I try
to make port A always RS232 pins, and I have no problems at all.  
Try to put a pull-up resistor on the output pin and see if it works.
Check to make sure you are not trying to pulse the lines too fast, once
I tried to generate a 2 mhz clock from an output pin until I very
carefully figured out the capacitance in my 22 awg hook-up wire that was
7 inches long. :)

Darryl Palmer

1994\07\28@000401 by dthomas

flavicon
face
That's easy.  Make all unused pins outputs.  Then you can let them
float.  Leaving inputs floating is definitely "considered harmful".
;^)

David

'PICSTART command line programmer'
1994\07\29@081131 by pablo

flavicon
face

Anyone know of a command-line programmer which works with the PIC-START
system?  I hate having to go through all those damn menus.....

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If outside IBM network boundaries  _^_  please pay attention to the following:
I speak for myself, not IBM. What (o o) I say MAY be wrong. No action should
be taken on my opinion alone. -oOO-(_)-OOo-  (TakeThisOuTpabloKILLspamspam@spam@netmail.austin.ibm.com)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

           -- Paul Greenwood --  (.....pabloRemoveMEspamaustin.ibm.com)

"I just need enough to tide me over until I need more."
               -- Bill Hoest

'Floating Point Math.'
1994\07\29@081831 by Derrick Early

flavicon
picon face
Hello pic users,

I'm trying to find a internet location for following files:

FP24_14.A16  FUNC_LIB   22K 05/94 PIC16CXX floating-point math routines (24-bit)
FP32_14.A16  FUNC_LIB   25K 05/94 PIC16CXX floating-point math routines (32-bit)
FXPD08_5.A16 FUNC_LIB   14K 05/94 PIC16CXX fixed-point divide routines (16/8).
FXPD16_5.A16 FUNC_LIB   13K 05/94 PIC16CXX fixed-point divide routines (16/16).
FXPD32_5.A16 FUNC_LIB   17K 05/94 PIC16CXX fixed-point divide routines (32/16).

Does anyone have an anonymous ftp address for me?  

I have been struggling with floating point division, and I'm curious to see
if the code above is more efficient.  I tried the an526 stuff, but I wasn't
very successful.  I must be doing something wrong.

Yours,

Derrick Early, the rookie user


'mailing list request'
1994\08\01@073856 by Noel P. Hart
flavicon
face
On Sun, 31 Jul 94 17:03:51 EDT you said:
>I am trying to establish/sponsor a mailing list.
>The list would cover the PIC series of microcontrollers.
>The list would have both mit and non-mit recipients.
>The requested name of the list would be:
>         KILLspampicspamTakeThisOuTwherever.mit.edu.
>Thank you for your asistance.
>jory bell

Please send mail to TakeThisOuTlistservspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with the following
two listserv commands as text...
HELP
GET LIST HEADER

/Noel

'File: "LIST HEADER"'
1994\08\01@131017 by server at MITVMA (1.7f)

flavicon
face
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
 MIT Information Systems (Operations & Systems) will host a LISTSERV
 electronic mail-distribution list on MITVMA.MIT.EDU if it pertains
 to MIT business, or at least is sponsored by a member of the MIT
 community, even if its subscribers are mostly elsewhere.  A request
 to establish a list must be sent to Postmaster from a member of the
 MIT community who will accept responsibility for the list, and can
 speak for the group whenever questions arise regarding either
 mechanics or usage.
 If the load on the system from lists not pertaining to MIT business
 becomes a problem, we may have to re-evaluate hosting of such lists.
 If the list appears to be abandoned (i.e., the owner cannot be
 reached via the registered address), the list will be deleted.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
   +---------------------------------------------------------------+
   | This file is to help you in creating a List of your own       |
   | on the LISTSERV at MITVMA.                                    |
   | LISTSERV cannot create a list automatically. The LISTSERV     |
   | maintainer must initally create the list for you. However,    |
   | after creation, maintenance of the list is the responsibility |
   | of the owner or owners.                                       |
   +---------------------------------------------------------------+

Below, you will find a sample  LISTSERV  List Header.  Each line of the list
header begins with an asterisk (*).  Complete  the information requested and
send it (only the header please, and a cover letter, if you wish) via e-mail
to RemoveMEPOSTMASTERspamspamSTOPspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU.
Upon receipt of the  list header,  the LISTSERV maintainer will contact you.

*After* your list has been created, you should ask LISTSERV for additional
information by sending the following commands to .....LISTSERVEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
  info listownr
  info refcard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Communicating with LISTSERV is done in one of two ways, interactively or via
e-mail.
If e-mail is used, send the LISTSERV commands to spamBeGoneLISTSERVspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
The commands should be places in the text part of the mail.

  From a CMS account use the 'tell' command, or e-mail.
  From a VMS account use the 'send' command, or e-mail.
  From the MITnet or Internet use e-mail.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please  fill  in  the ListName,  ListTitle  and  Owner  fields and make your
changes (as necessary) to any of the other keyword parameters.
A description  of  list header keywords  can be found  following this sample
list header.

* What is the name of this list ?
* From 4 to 8 characters from the following set: A-Z 0-9 $#+-_
*  ListName=  XXXXXXXX
*    Example---> SAMPLE-L
*
* What is the title of this list ?
*  ListTitle=  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
*    Example-->  A Sample Discussion List
*
* What is the e-mail address of the owner of this list ?
*  (There can be more than one owner, just dup the line)
*  Owner=  .....XXXXXXEraseMEspamXXXX.XXXXXX.XXXX.XXX.XX     (Xxxx X Xxxxxx)
*    Example--> Owner=  spamNHARTspam_OUTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU     (Noel P Hart)
*
* Review= Public
* Subscription= Open
* Send= Public
* Notify= yes
* Reply-To= List,Respect
* Files= No
* Ack= No
* Validate= Store Only
* Renewal= Yearly
* Confidential= Service
* Service= Local
* Notebook= Yes,G,Monthly,Public
* Stats= None
* Errors-To= Owners
*


  ***********  A description of list header keywords  *************

 The following is a description of the list control keywords that appear
in the header of each list.  Whenever default values are supplied for the
keywords, they  are listed  first in the  description. Words  enclosed in
parenthesis are "(generic  parameters)" which define  a  set of  possible
values for a keyword operand.
A desctiption of  'Generic Parameters'  such as net-address, access-level
etc. can be found following 'List control keywords'.

List control keywords
---------------------

***********************
* Ack= Yes | Msg | No *
***********************
   Defines the default value of  the "ACK/NOACK" distribution option for
 the corresponding  list, ie the value  assigned to new users  when they
 subscribe to the list. This value  can be altered by subscribers ("SET"
 command), but  not by  users who are  not signed on  to the  list. This
 means that this option will always  be in effect when distributing mail
 from people who are not on the distribution list.

 Yes         Messages will be sent when  your mail file is being proces-
             sed. Additionally, a  short acknowledgment with statistical
             information on  the mailing  will be sent  back to  you, in
             case a link failure prevented  you from receiving the messa
             ges. This is the default.

 Msg         Messages will be sent when  your mail file is being proces-
             sed.  Statistical information  will be  sent via  messages,
             but no acknowledgment mail will be sent.

 No          A single message, but no acknowledgment mail nor statistics
             will be sent when your mail file is being processed.

************************************
* Confidential= No | Yes | Service *
************************************
   Indicates whether the list should be hidden from users or not. A con-
 fidential list  will not appear on  the "List" command output.  "No" is
 the  default value  and indicates  that the  list is  not confidential.
 "Service" indicates  that the list is  to be hidden from  users who are
 not in  the list's service area  (see "Service=" keyword) but  not from
 other users. "Yes" means that the list is unconditionally confidential.

*********************************************
* Editor= (net-address1),(net-address2),... *
*********************************************
   Defines the list editor(s). When  used in conjunction with the "Send=
 Editor" option, it causes all mail sent to the list to be automatically
 forwarded to the first person listed in the "Editor=" keyword, who will
 then send it  back to the list  at his discretion. The  editors are the
 only persons (with the list owners) who are allowed to mail directly to
 the list. Note that ANY editor can send mail to the list while only the
 FIRST one will receive copies of mail sent to the list.

   The  file  will  be forwarded  to the  editor 'as is',  without being
 included in a mail envelope. This method makes sure  that the  original
 "Resent-" tags (if any) and "To:" keyword are preserved. BITNET editors
 will receive the forwarded mailfile  in their mailbox in Netdata format
 (or whatever is  the default format for their  operating system), while
 non-BITNET editors  will receive  it via their  mailing system  with an
 extra mail envelope being generated to enclose the original (unaltered)
 mailfile.

 IMPORTANT NOTE: The  editor MUST be a human person,  not a file server,
 list server,  mailer, or  suchlike. Specifying  a program's  mailbox as
 "Editor=" could result in a mailing loop.

************************************************
* Errors-To= (mon-address1),(mon-address2),... *
************************************************
   Defines the person  or list of persons that are  to receive rejection
 mail for the list. The default  value is 'Postmaster', and it is recom-
 mended that the owners change  it to 'Owners' or 'Owners,Postmaster' as
 soon as they become familiar with Revised LISTSERV.

*******************
* Files= Yes | No *
*******************
   Indicates whether files  can be sent to the list  or not. The default
 value is "Yes".

***********************
* Formcheck= No | Yes *
***********************
   Indicates whether files  to be redistributed to the list  must have a
 FORM of REDIST  to be accepted or  not. The default value  is "No", but
 can be changed to  "Yes" if for some reason it  is suspected that files
 can be accidentally sent to the  list userid without being intended for
 redistribution. Note that on some systems  the FORM field is imposed by
 the networking software and cannot be changed by the user.

*******************
* Language= idiom *
*******************
   Defines the language in which information mail and messages are to be
 sent to subscribers of the list.  The postmaster must have provided the
 required data  file to the server,  of course. The default  language is
 "English".
 Currently only  information mail is  available in several  languages. A
 further  release might  incorporate  customized messages  by using  the
 :country  tag in  BITEARN  NODES to  determine the  idiom  to be  used.

**************************
* Local= node1,node2,... *
**************************
   Defines the  nodes which are  to be  considered as 'local  nodes' for
 both service area checking and mail  header grouping. The local node is
 automatically considered as a 'local node'  and does not have to appear
 in  the list.  Subscribers from  any of  the local  nodes will  receive
 separate pieces of  mail with a single recipient in  the "To:" field --
 in other  words, they  will never  receive a grouped  piece of  mail as
 non-local  recipients would  if there  are more  than one  recipient in
 their node.  Note that 'node'  is a  generic term that  means "anything
 after the  '@' sign  in the network  address". For  instance, "FRECP11"
 and "VAX2.LAB1.LAN" are both valid node names.

 Note: On MITVMA.MIT.EDU, "Local" means MIT sites only.

****************************************************************
* Notebook= No | (Yes,(fm),(interval)|Separate,(access-level)) *
****************************************************************
   Indicates whether or not an automatic log of every piece of mail sent
 to the list  is to be kept,  and defines at which interval  of time its
 file name must  be changed and who  is allowed to retrieve  it from the
 server. The default values are "Notebook= No,A,Single,Private".

 (fm)        Is the filemode of the disk  on which the notebook is to be
              kept. This  information is of little  importance to users,
              except perhaps to the users  of the server's host computer
              who might, in certain circumstances, be allowed to LINK to
              one of the server's disks (containing public information).
              Contact the local LISTSERV operation staff for more infor-
              mation.

 (interval)  Defines the filetype  of the "notebook" file  for the list,
              as indicated below  (the filename will always  be the same
              as the list name):

 Single:     A single file of filetype "NOTEBOOK" is created.
 Yearly:     A new file is started each yearly, filetype is "LOGyy"
 Monthly:    The filetype is "LOGyymm"
 Weekly:     The filetype is "LOGyymmw" (w in "A"-"E")
 Separate:   A separate file is kept for each mailing (eg digests).
             The filetype is "yy-nnnnn" (sequential counter).

  Note: notebooks  can now be retrieved  by means of the  GET command. A
        list  of all  available notebooks  can  be obtained  with a  GET
        NOTEBOOK FILELIST command.

********************
* Notify= Yes | No *
********************
   Defines  whether the  list owner  is to  receive notification  of new
 subscriptions and deletions, etc. The default is "Yes".


*********************************************
* Owner= (net-address1)|(access-level1),... *
*********************************************
   Defines the  person or list of  persons who "own" the  list. They are
 responsible for  controlling access to  the list and defining  the list
 control keywords which are best suited  to the purpose of the list. The
 default value for  this keyword which should ALWAYS appear  in the list
 header is the  list of the userids of the  postmasters. Any combination
 of explicit network addresses  and complex access-levels is acceptable,
 for example: Owner= BIG@BLUE,(STAFF-L),Owner(MAIN-L)

   An interesting application is to create a STAFF-L list containing the
 userids of  all the local LISTSERV  staff members and set  the "Owner="
 keyword of all  local lists to "Owner= (STAFF-L)". This  way when there
 is a  change in the  local LISTSERV management  it is not  necessary to
 modify the  headers of all the  lists -- just modify  the STAFF-L list.

******************************
* Peers= (peer1),(peer2),... *
******************************
   Defines the  (global) list of all  the servers in the  world that are

1994\08\01@131017 by server at MITVMA (1.7f)

flavicon
face
 peer-linked to the list, either directly  or via one or more other peer
 servers. This information  is used by the various  list management com-
 mands to determine  the "nearest" peer list to a  given user. For exam-
 ple, when a SUBSCRIBE command is received  from a user and it is deter-
 mined that there is a better  (nearer) peer list for him, the subscrip-
 tion request  is automatically  forwarded to the  appropriate LISTSERV.

******************************
* Renewal= Yearly | Monthly  *
******************************
   This keyword enables the  automatic removal of subscribers to a list
 if they  do  not  re-subscribe  within  a  required time.  The user is
 notified twice,  via e-mail,  of their pending removal, if they do not
 reply,  the third message  sent is notification of  their removal from
 the list. (A nice way to help keep your list clean of dead users.)
 The default is "Renewal="   (disabled)
 Note: If this option is  enabled for a list,  the owners may alter the
       setting of an individual subscriber via the SET command.
       SET listname NORENEW FOR x@y

********************************************
* Reply-to= (destination),Respect | Ignore *
********************************************
   Indicates whether the  "Reply-to:" tag supplied by the  sender of the
 mail file is to be preserved or discarded (if present), and, if discar-
 ded or omitted, what should be  placed in the new "Reply-to:" generated
 by  the server.  The default  value is  "List,Respect". Note  that some
 mailing systems are unable to process a "Reply-To:" field with multiple
 addresses correctly  and may  therefore disregard the  "Reply-to= Both"
 option and treat it as "Reply-to= List".

 Respect:    The original "Reply-to:" tag, if any, is kept.
 Ignore:     The original "Reply-to:" tag is ignored and discarded.

**************************
* Review= (access-level) *
**************************
   This keyword defines the category of  users who are allowed to review
 the network  addresses and names of  the persons subscribed to  a list.
 The default value is "Public".
 Note: Individual subscribers to the list can use the SET command to
       CONCEAL their names from the people who REFIEW the list.

*********************************
* Send= (access-level) | Editor *
*********************************
   Defines the category of users who can mail or send files to the list.
 Possibly puts the list under control of an editor. The default value is
 "Public". When the  list is controlled by an editor,  any file or piece
 of mail sent  to the list is  forwarded to the editor, who  is the only
 person (with the list owner) to be  able to actually mail or send files
 to  the list.  The network  address  of the  editor is  defined by  the
 "Editor=" keyword.

********************************
* Service= (area1),(area2),... *
********************************
   Defines  the 'service  area'  outside of  which subcription  requests
 must  not  be accepted.  When  a  SUBSCRIBE  command is  received,  the
 "Peers=" keyword  is checked  first to  see if there  is a  nearer peer
 list in  the network. If  it is the case,  the command is  forwarded to
 this nearer server. If not, the  service area is checked to ensure that
 the recipient is acceptable; if it  is not, the subscription request is
 denied. When  the command  is forwarded,  the destination  server might
 still deny  access to  the list  if the subscriber  is outside  its own
 service area, if any.

   It is  important to  note that  the service area  check is  made only
 after the  "best placement" check.  This allows several servers  in the
 same country to share an identical service area, eg "Service= Germany",
 and still have users subscribed to the best possible server.

 Code "Service= Local" if you want to allow access by MIT address only.

**************************************************
* Stats= Normal | Extended | None,(access-level) *
**************************************************
   Indicates whether or not statistics are to be maintained for the list
 and if  yes, which level  of statistics is desired  and who is  able to
 retrieve the statistics reports. The default value is "Normal,Private".

   Normal statistics include number of mailings, number of outbound mail
 files, and total number of outbound 80-character records, for each user
 on the list, and a  similar information for file distribution. Extended
 statistics include all of the above plus actual network load indication
 in "link.kbytes" units.


******************************************
* Subscription= By_owner | Open | Closed *
******************************************
   This keyword defines whether or not new users are allowed to subcribe
 to the list, and if not,  whether their subscription requests are to be
 forwarded to the list owner or not.

 Open:       The users are allowed to subscribe to the list.

 By_owner:   The users are not  allowed to subscribe, but their requests
              will be forwarded to the  list owner. This is the default.

 Closed:     The users are not  allowed to subscribe, and their requests
              are not to be forwarded to the list owner.

***************************************
* Validate= Store only | All commands *
***************************************
   Under Revised LISTSERV, lists are  protected by a password which must
 be specified by the list owner when  he sends an updated version of the
 list back to the server. When "Validate= All commands", password valida
 tion applies to ALL the commands  that modify the contents of the list,
 eg SIGNOFF, SET, etc. This implies that users cannot use these commands
 since they  do not know the  list password. A notable  exception is the
 SUBscribe command, which  can still be used (if enabled)  to get on the
 list; however, sending a second SUBscribe command for the same list (to
 correct a  spelling error  in your  name) would  result in  the command
 being forwarded to the list owner and not immediately executed. This is
 to protect you from UREP hackers  who might issue a command "from" your
 userid@node to  change the name under  which you appear on  the list to
 something impolite. The default is  "Store only", but it is recommended
 that  "serious"  or "important"  lists  be  changed to  "Validate=  All
 commands".

******************************
* X-Tags= Yes | No | Comment *
******************************
   Indicates whether "X-To:" and "X-cc:" tags  are to be included in the
 output mail files  to list recipients of the original  mail file (other
 than the list userid) or not, and  how they should appear in the RFC822
 header.

 Yes:        This information  must be provided  in the form  of "X-To:"
             and  "X-cc:" tags  in  the RFC822  header  (similar to  the
             "To:" and "cc:" tags). This is the default.

 Comment:    This information must be provided in the form of "Comment:"
             tags, ie "Comment: X-To:" and "Comment: X-cc:".

 No:         This information must not appear at all in the mail haeder.


*************************************************************************
** Generic parameters **
** ------------------ **
(net-address):            Describes a RFC822-compatible network address,
                          usually of the "spamuserid@spam@spamSTOPspamnode.domain" form.

(access-level):           Controls which category of users has access to
                          the information or service to which this para-
                          meter applies.  (access-level) can  be either:

                Public     Everybody has access to the information.
                Postmaster Only the  postmaster (ie LISTSERV  operations
                            staff) has access to the information.
                A1,A2,...  with Ai being either:

                           Private     Only users subscribed to the list
                                       have access to the information.
                           (listname)  Only the members of the specified
                                       list have access to the info.
                           Owner       Only  the list  owner can  access
                                       the information.
                           Owner(list) Only the  owner of  the indicated
                                       list can  access the information.
                           Service     Only people  in the  service area
                                       of the list can see the info.
                           Service(list)

(destination):            Indicates the destination  of a piece of mail,
                          message  or reply.  Depending on  the type  of
                          reply, all the options  listed below might not
                          be effective. For example, "Reply-to= None" is
                          functionally  identical  to "Sender",  whereas
                          "// JOB  Reply-to=None"  (in a  batch  command
                          file)  would  actually suppress  all  replies.

                List       The reply message is sent to the list.
                Sender     The  reply message  is sent to  the sender of
                            the original piece of mail.
                Both       The reply  message is  sent both to  the list
                            and to the original sender.
                None       No reply message is sent at all.
                "address"  The  reply message  is sent  to the specified
                            network address if enclosed in double quotes


(interval):               Is a time interval that indicates how frequent
                          ly an  operation is  to be renewed.  Note that
                          depending  on the  operation being  performed,
                          some of the options  may not be available. For
                          example, "Notebook= Yes,A,Daily"  is not avai-
                          lable.

                Yearly
                Monthly
                Weekly     Self-explanatory
                Daily
                Hourly
                Single     The operation is to be done only a single
                            time.

(peer):                   Is the  node-id or  network address of  a peer
                          list server. If  the name of the  peer list is
                          the same as the name  of the local list (which
                          will usually be the  case), only the node name
                          needs be  given. If the list  names are diffe-
                          rent, the full list network address must be
                          given, eg "REXX-L@UIUCVMD".


(area):                   Is a means whereby a node or list of nodes can
                          be identified. An area can be either:

                          - The name of a network, eg EARN, BITNET
                          - The name of a country, eg Germany, Canada
                          - 'Local', in which case  it is equated to the
                            value of the "Local=" keyword (qqv).
                          - A node name, eg FRECP11
                          - A simple  wildcard nodename pattern  such as
                            FR*, *11, *ESA*, D*ESA*, etc

(mon-address):            Is a means whereby 'list monitors' can be iden
                          tified (the  term 'list  monitor' refers  to a
                          human person  who monitors  the activity  of a
                          list). A 'mon-address' can be:

                          - A single network address, eg INFO@TCSVM
                          - 'Postmaster',  which  indicates  the  "main"
                             postmaster
                          - 'Postmasters', which indicates ALL the post-
                             masters, main and alternate
                          - 'Owner',  which  indicates the  "main"  list
                             owner  (the  first  to  be  listed  in  the
                             "Owner=" keyword)
                          - 'Owners', which indicates ALL list owners

   Whenever  several keywords  or operands  are accepted,  they will  be
 separated by a logical OR  sign (|). Unless specified otherwise, commas
 have "higher priority" than OR  signs, that is to say, "Public|Private,
 Open|Closed"   means  "(Public|Private),(Open|Closed)",   not  "Public|
 (Private,Open)|Closed".

'best place to buy pics? '
1994\08\01@140646 by mycal

flavicon
face


I am looking to buy about 40-60 PIC16c54-HS/P-ND (digi key #).  Is there
a better (read more inexpensive) place to buy these than digikey?

They are $6.56/pc at this quantity.

also If I want to program a PIC16C84 with my PICSTART-16B what revision
of firmware do I need.

thanx,

mycal


'Floating Point Math.'
1994\08\01@163244 by Leonard Norrgard

flavicon
face
There are some PIC related files on ftp.funet.fi in the directory
/pub/microprocs/PIC.  Try looking in the microchip-bbs directory, the
files you're looking for might be there.

(New contributions to the PIC archive very welcome!)

-- vinsci


'ASPIC (was Re: Re:More rookie questions)'
1994\08\01@163643 by Leonard Norrgard

flavicon
face
Can one run aspic-assembled files in the mpsim simulator or is there
another way to do it?

-- vinsci

'RS232 or RS485 communication'
1994\08\01@173448 by ktor Dvorak

flavicon
face
In AN510 Implementation of an Asynchronous Serial I/O must be a bug.
I must step the time delay loops for the right length.
Have you any other idea about Asynchronous Serial I/O?

                                  Thanks in advance

RNDr. Viktor Dvorak
spamBeGonedvorakvspamBeGonespam@spam@earn.cvut.cz
Praha
Czech Republic
Europe

'Xon/Xoff protocol in Asynchronous Serial I/O'
1994\08\01@173933 by ktor Dvorak

flavicon
face
Software handshaking Xon/Xoff on PIC16C84.
Do you know about some help in buffered serial protocol with Xon/Xoff ?

                                 Thanks in advance

RNDr. Viktor Dvorak
RemoveMEdvorakvRemoveMEspamRemoveMEearn.cvut.cz
Praha
Czech Republic
Europe

'RS232 or RS485 communication'
1994\08\02@065911 by Leonard Norrgard

flavicon
face
> Have you any other idea about Asynchronous Serial I/O?

Well, one problem with Microchip's example source is that they've got
the RS-232 signals inverted. (On rs232, 1's are sent as low voltage,
0's as high).  A scope is a great debugging aid for programming
RS-232, btw.

-- vinsci


'Xon/Xoff protocol in Asynchronous Serial I/O'
1994\08\02@074839 by Derrick Early

flavicon
picon face
Hello Dr. Dvorak,

I'm a rookie at this microcontroller programming stuff, but I am very interested
in finding the answers to your questions.  Since, I have to write the same
routines for the pic16c64.

I wonder what clock speed you are using for the chip.  This may have
an effect on the number of program steps that the chip must wait for the
next bit.  You could calculate this value and set a loop parameter, so
you could generalize the code for any speed.

Also if the chip is wasting time waiting to send the next bit, you could use
that time to check for an xon (h'11') or xoff (h'13') byte to see if you should
stop sending bits.

You probably already thought of this, and remember I'm a rookie.

Yours,

Derrick Early, the rookie user

'Floating Point Math.'
1994\08\02@075736 by Derrick Early

flavicon
picon face
>
> There are some PIC related files on ftp.funet.fi in the directory
> /pub/microprocs/PIC.  Try looking in the microchip-bbs directory, the
> files you're looking for might be there.
>
> (New contributions to the PIC archive very welcome!)
>
> -- vinsci
>
>
Dear vinsci,

Thank you for the additional pic ftp address.  I'll have a look around
when I have a chance.  

I have written a floating point division that may be faster and more
compact than what I have seen.  But it is pretty crude and it is
tailered to my application.  ie.  I'm only interested in the integer
result.

I'll try to get it to a nicer form for public consumption.

Yours,

Derrick Early, the rookie user

'RS232 or RS485 communication'
1994\08\02@180314 by dpalmer

flavicon
face

The RS-232 lines are reversed, but if you use some MAXIM interface chips,
it reverses the lines also.  So you get an inverted invert, uhh, you know
what I mean.


Darryl Palmer

'PIC Controller Boards'
1994\08\02@181113 by dpalmer

flavicon
face

Does anyone know if there is a small PIC controller board that is offered
by any companies?  I know about the Basic Stamp but that 8 bit I/O is a huge
disadvantage for medium level work.  I am thinking of something along the lines
of the F1 or miniboard type of stuff.

I know the PIC might not be the best chip for the job, but I just wanted to
know if anyone done it before.


1994\08\02@182229 by cmcmanis

flavicon
face

There are the PICProto boards from MicroEngineering Labs in Colorado. They
are simply prototyping boards with the layout for the pic chip and clock
circuitry, plus some proto space for your own stuff.

--Chuck

'Problem with RA4 on the '71, I only get 2Vs'
1994\08\03@174308 by johnsonj

flavicon
face
I have RA4 on a 4.7K pullup.  When I drive the pin high I only get a voltage
of 2 volts maybe 2.1.  4.7K!!!  Anyway It hangs around .68mV when I am
not driving it low.  I really need help with this.  I fall below ttl
level from time to time and its killing me.  It works fine if I put a
680Ohm pullup on it but then my lower voltage is horrendus(sp).  I know
about the screwed up tristate reg on it and I only move an image of RA
into the ra reg(not the tristate I leave it alone).
Help please....
later
       John

_____________________________________________________________________________
John Johnson                   |If it's not OS/2.|johnsonjKILLspamspamspamccwf.cc.utexas.edu
                              |It's crap!       |spam_OUTjohnsonj@spam@spamghostwheel.bga.com
OOOO SSSS    /2222  2222    11 |                 |
O  O S      /    2     2     1 |"We need breath- |"Bite me." Tom Servo
O  O SSSS  /  2222  2222     1 |-ing room!"      |
O  O    S /   2     2    ..  1 |     Bill Gates  |"I want to decide who lives
OOOO SSSS/    2222  2222 .. 111|                 |and who dies" Crow T. Robot
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


'ByteCraft's MPC C-compiler demo'
1994\08\05@084559 by Leonard Norrgard

flavicon
face
I've received a demo version of the MPC C-compiler for the PIC series
from one of ByteCraft's distributors.  I'll check the licensing to see
if I can put it up for ftp here on ftp.funet.fi, and if so do it later
today or on monday.

-- vinsci

'software stack management on '57?'
1994\08\05@090835 by Leonard Norrgard

flavicon
face
You might have noticed that the application note describing software
stack management (to allow for more than 2 active calls) isn't usable
on PICs with more than 512 bytes of program memory.
 Has anyone already extended the example it so that is usable on
"bigger" PICs too (I'm using the '57 myself, for now) and would like
to share it with us?

-- vinsci


'ASPIC'
1994\08\07@035403 by Don Lekei

picon face
On Aug 1, Leonard Norrgard (TakeThisOuTvinscispam_OUTspamnic.funet.fi) asked:

>Can one run aspic-assembled files in the mpsim simulator or is there
>another way to do it?

Sorry for the delay, Leonard, but I just got back from a camping trip...

Yes, ASPIC supports mpsim, it generates MPALC compatable output files, so
you
may need a command line switch on the latest version of mpalc.

In fact, registered ASPIC users, get a bunus utility which parses the
output of MPSIM into data files which allow you to plot waveforms (a
program is provided to do that too).

-Don


'Programming the 17C42 '
1994\08\08@103138 by Ulrich Hoffmann

flavicon
face
I wonder if there is a cheap way to program 17C42 chips?

Microchip once sold a bare bone device (don't remember its name) to
do the trick. (Kind of self programming via external EPROMS)

I've seen a programmer published in ELECTOR magazine, but the circuit
contradicts the programming notices for the 17C42.

Are there two ways to program these beasts?

What programmers do you use?

Ulrich

Ulrich Hoffmann, Uni Kiel        WWW: http://www.informatik.uni-kiel.de/~uho/
Institut f. Informatik,                     email: KILLspamuho.....spamTakeThisOuTinformatik.uni-kiel.de
Preusserstr 1-9, D-24105 Kiel, Germany      Tel: +49 431 560426   Fax: 566143
  The only man who finished all his work by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.

1994\08\08@134955 by Don Lekei

picon face
I use the Baradine Microburner for all PIC programming. It is relatively
inexpensive (a few hundres $CDN) and it uses a standard ASCII interface so
it will work with any computer.

I have also written a command-line interface which is available on the
microchip BBS (3rdparty file area) and a few ftp sites as BURN.ZIP.

Adapters are available for all *EXISTING* PICs (16c64 is comming), I have
them all, It works much better than PICSTART (I have one of them) and
Promaster (have one of those too).

-Don


'Demo of the MPC C compiler available'
1994\08\08@173228 by Leonard Norrgard

flavicon
face
I've made the demo version of the MPC C compiler for the PIC from
Bytecraft available on ftp.funet.fi:/pub/microprocs/PIC/mpc/*

Total size is around 520Kb, ie. it easily fits on one disk.

Enjoy,

-- vinsci


'Programming the 17C42'
1994\08\09@120621 by Don Lekei

picon face
On Aug 8, 1994, Alex Freed wrote:

>Could you please explain what do you mean by "It works much better than
>PICSTART"? I have PICSTART and it works. What would be "much better" than
>that? No irony, I'm just wondering.

(What follows is a peeve, so the tone may sound a bit harsh...)

It's just that I find  Picstart programmer is annoyingly slow. The Picstart
and Promaster share the same front-end shell which is all manually driven,
messes with the video mode, and does not provide usable error return codes.
They both communicate with proprietary, un-published protocols, so people
with other computers (mac, unix, etc.), or who use safer developement
practices like makefiles, rcs etc. are left in the lurch.

They work great as toys (to play with settings, etc.) but I'm to
absent-minded to remember to manually set the fuses right each time!

- Don

1994\08\09@214814 by ssmith

flavicon
picon face
Don Lekei wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I must agree with Don's comments. Having to set the fuses every time is
annoying. In my opinion, a major improvement would be for it to simply
remember the last settings when it starts up.

I have experienced other problems using PICSTART. I find that often
(with 16C71s, at least) it takes 2 or 3 goes to program properly: verification
fails initially, but it will eventually succeed. Is this a problem that others
have found? Something to do with firmare perhaps? (Mine is PICSTART-16B,
Firmware V1.7).

Another point to consider: the programming specs (eg. DS30153D) say that the
devices should be verified at VDD min as well as VDD max, yet I see no
evidence that PICSTART does this. Does anyone know what goes on here? The
PICSTART user's guide is silent on such issues. Seems to me that you could
easily program a device that verifies at 5V, but fails at 3V.

Stewart Smith  (TakeThisOuTssmithEraseMEspamRemoveMEcsuvax1.murdoch.edu.au)
Environmental Science, Murdoch University, Western Australia.

'Newest PICSTART-16B Firmware'
1994\08\09@223421 by dpalmer

flavicon
face
After reading a message concerning someone having a firmware release of 1.7,
I wanted to know if anyone has a newer version of the firmware or can tell
me if there are any advantages over version 1.5 (which I have).

Darryl Palmer

'Programming the 17C42'
1994\08\10@010627 by Don Lekei

picon face
Stewart Smith wrote:

>...Having to set the fuses every time is
>annoying. In my opinion, a major improvement would be for it to simply
>remember the last settings when it starts up.

The various spec sheets define addresses for all fuses. ASPIC supports
setting these in the source files, and I prefer to use programmers which
also do.

>Another point to consider: the programming specs (eg. DS30153D) say that
the
>devices should be verified at VDD min as well as VDD max, yet I see no
>evidence that PICSTART does this. Does anyone know what goes on here?

Microchip has pointed out many times (at least on their BBS) that PICSTART
is NOT considered a "production" programmer, however, we only use Baradine
Microburners,
which I don't believe program VDD (I may be wrong).  Getting the fuses
wrong and the
accumulated labour of manually going through all of those menus on
Promaster are more
of a concern than the small chance that a product which passes all other
tests will fail under low voltage (which will reset anyway)!

- Don


'Promaster'
1994\08\10@021336 by

flavicon
face
Having built my own programmer for all chips (including pics) I decided
to use the Promaster when I finally had to program several thousands in
"production" quality. I was quite disappointed for the reasons already
mentioned:

No quick way to program a single chip in a more or less automatic way.

Furthermore, I'm used to Unix, both at work and at home (Linux). So this
is what I did:

1. Trace all accesses to the UART
2. Figure out (parts of) the protocol
3. Write a C-Program that does what I need

I don't have to leave Unix now for a complete developement cycle
and can even personalize each chip in a much more flexible way than
Promaster provides for. Note that I didn't reverse engineer any of
the code, which is explicitely prohibited by the license agreement.

Although I'm still not completely happy (the promaster's programming
cycle is too long in my opinion), I can live with this situation.
(Basically, now the hardware is the problem. I use the SMD-package
and the contact gold (sp?) of the fingers seems to wear off. I'm
at about 3000 pieces now, which is certainly not too much for a
"production" quality programmer.)

If someone is interested in this piece of software I can try to upload
it to some ftp-server. Obviously, NO WARRANTY.

I would be even more delighted if someone took the time to enhance the
tool, because of the following deficiencies/limitations:

- does not generate proper checksum (the protocol has one)
 Current solution:
 1. send data (will produce NOT OK as acknowlegdement)
 2. read data back
 3. compare sent/read data
 4. start programming if match

- does not support anything else than C71

- does not allow setting of programming parameters


Regards,

Mike

--
Dipl.-Ing. Michael Hermann   spam_OUTmchRemoveMEspam.....regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de
Lehrstuhl fuer Rechnergestuetztes Entwerfen,     Postfach 202420
Technische Universitaet Muenchen                    089/21053657

1994\08\10@041740 by

flavicon
face
Having built my own programmer for all chips (including pics) I decided
to use the Promaster when I finally had to program several thousands in
"production" quality. I was quite disappointed for the reasons already
mentioned in this list, but mainly by:

No quick way to program a single chip in a more or less automatic way.
The GUI takes forever to just connect and I was unable to figure out
how to run a session with a batch-file.

Furthermore, I'm used to Unix, both at work and at home (Linux). So this
is what I did:

1. Trace all accesses to the UART
2. Figure out (parts of) the protocol
3. Write a C-Program that does what I need

I don't have to leave Unix now for a complete developement cycle
and can even personalize each chip in a much more flexible way than
Promaster provides for. Note that I didn't reverse engineer any of
the code, which is explicitely prohibited by the license agreement.

Although I'm still not completely happy (the promaster's programming
cycle is too long in my opinion), I can live with this situation.
(Basically, now the hardware is the problem. I use the SMD-package
and the contact gold (sp?) of the fingers seems to wear off. I'm
at about 3000 pieces now, which is certainly not too much for a
"production" quality programmer.)

If someone is interested in this piece of software I can try to upload
it to some ftp-server. Obviously, NO WARRANTY.

I would be even more delighted if someone took the time to enhance the
tool, because of the following deficiencies/limitations:

- does not generate proper checksum (the protocol has one)
 Current solution:
 1. send data (will produce NOT OK as acknowlegdement)
 2. read data back
 3. compare sent/read data
 4. start programming if match

- does not support anything else than C71

- does not allow setting of programming parameters


Regards,

Mike

--
Dipl.-Ing. Michael Hermann   spammchKILLspamspamKILLspamregent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de
Lehrstuhl fuer Rechnergestuetztes Entwerfen,     Postfach 202420
Technische Universitaet Muenchen                    089/21053657


1994\08\10@051615 by -robotics-research-centre.salford.ac.uk (Ian King)n/a

flavicon
face
Michael Hermann <spamMichael.Hermannspam_OUTspamde.tu-muenchen.e-technik.regent> wrote:

.....

{Quote hidden}

I would be interested, as I would like to do the same thing
for my picstart16b firmware 1.5 (are they same/similar?)

OR Does anyone know a microchip e-mail address where I could ask for
the protocols?

BTW either sics.se or nic.funet.fi would be best for an ftp site.

=%-)

Ian



'Programming the 17C42'
1994\08\10@051930 by n0axv%burnmoor

picon face

> I must agree with Don's comments. Having to set the fuses every time is
> annoying. In my opinion, a major improvement would be for it to simply
> remember the last settings when it starts up.
>

If you hit "Read device" before loading in your object code, the fuses are
automatically set to how the current device was last programmed.  Only works
for the EE part (16C84), though. :-)

> I have experienced other problems using PICSTART. I find that often
> (with 16C71s, at least) it takes 2 or 3 goes to program properly: verification
> fails initially, but it will eventually succeed. Is this a problem that others
> have found? Something to do with firmare perhaps? (Mine is PICSTART-16B,
> Firmware V1.7).

I have found that every once in a while our PICSTART refuses to program
properly, but I put it down to the ZIF socket - devices placed centrally
do not program properly but ones placed at the left side program OK.

> Another point to consider: the programming specs (eg. DS30153D) say that the
> devices should be verified at VDD min as well as VDD max, yet I see no
> evidence that PICSTART does this. Does anyone know what goes on here? The
> PICSTART user's guide is silent on such issues. Seems to me that you could
> easily program a device that verifies at 5V, but fails at 3V.

PICSTART is classed as a DEVELOPMENT programmer, and the programming spec.
states that only PRODUCTION class programmers need to have the variable
voltage capability. I suppose it's how they get away with such crappy drive
software as well.

> Stewart Smith  (spam_OUTssmithspamspamBeGonecsuvax1.murdoch.edu.au)
> Environmental Science, Murdoch University, Western Australia.
>

Simon
--
******************************************************************************
* Simon Harrison,  University of Newcastle U. Tyne    *                      *
* EraseMES.J.HarrisonspamKILLspamuk.ac.newcastle                        *   Oook               *
* Fax: 091-222-8180, Attn: S.Harrison                 *        - Librarian   *
* Telex (Preferred): 53654 UNINEW G, mark 1st line:   *                      *
* "TO:  S.J.HARRISON (DEPT. OF ELEC. ENG.)"           *                      *
******************************************************************************

'"Command-lining" a menu driven program'
1994\08\10@055337 by manningc

flavicon
face
Hi

A couple of recent posters have been complaining that menu-driven
programs do not really help for development ( a sequential process).

Herewith a useful program for the PC.

In batch files, you run key-fake just before running the menu program.
This "fakes" keystrokes for the menu driven program.

KEY-FAKE "string",13,"ABB",27,0,13
MENUPROG

Strings "..." are characters
Numbers are ascii codes for keystrokes eg. 13 = enter, 27 = escape. 0 is
a special value which "synchs up" with flushing of the keyboard buffer.

I use this and Borland's make to streamline programming.

NB:  I'm not too sure about the legal status of this program ie.
copyright infringement.

-- Charles




Attachment converted: sheep!:key-fake.com (????/----) (00001717)

'Superstitions (was: Programming the 17C42)'
1994\08\10@122031 by haggis

picon face
n0axv%EraseMEburnmoorRemoveMEspamnewcastle.ac.uk (Simon Harrison) writes:

>I have found that every once in a while our PICSTART refuses to program
>properly, but I put it down to the ZIF socket - devices placed centrally
>do not program properly but ones placed at the left side program OK.

Hmmm...

I've used the PICStart 16B since version 1.4 (keep getting upgrades, like
candy), and it's always been flakey.  I have one at work and another at
home.  Both the same.

I've never even tried shifting the part in the ZIF socket.  Sometimes it
programs first time, usually it takes three attempts.  Without shifting the
chip at all.  I chalk it up to flakey timing and bad exception handling.

Which is also pure conjecture...  My $0.02

I'm interested in that "Unix" code the other guy has.

- JohnR

--
John R. Haggis            .....haggisspamspam_OUTnetcom.com
Millennium Research
(408) 269-1814 vox
(408) 269-9323 fax


'MpK ftp location'
1994\08\17@034445 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Hello PIC users,

I have to make a correction on the ftp location of my MpK source.
It's to be found at:  ftp.ntb.ch   /MicroChip/PIC/MpK

Read the *.idx files...

regards, Michael

'Stamp dev sys for Mac'
1994\08\17@164549 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
                  Stamp dev sys for Mac
sorry if this a faq - i'm new to the list
is there a mac version of the stamp development system?
free/share/cost-ware ? ?

'pic data sheets available via ftp?'
1994\08\18@093022 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
X-cs:
From:     Self <RZ_NWFS2/GROB>
To:       PIC-Mailing Liste
Subject:  data sheets via ftp?
Date:     Thu, 18 Aug 1994 15:10:39

{now with correct subject, sorry!}

hello PICcers all over the world,

does anyone know, if the data-sheets of PICs are available via ftp?
are they in ascii-format / word-format / postscript?

or has anyone good contact to microchip to get the files and post them an a
ftp-server?

thanks,
Siggi
@spam@grobEraseMEspamspamrz_nwfs2.rz.uni-ulm.de

1994\08\18@094303 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
> does anyone know, if the data-sheets of PICs are available via ftp?
> are they in ascii-format / word-format / postscript?
>
> or has anyone good contact to microchip to get the files and post them an a
> ftp-server?
>

I haven't seen any data sheets out on the net, but here is a excellent
ftp address:

 ftp.luth.se

Look under the /pub/misc/microchip directory.

Yours,

Derrick Early, the rookie user

'Reading fuses from file & problems w PIC locking u'
1994\08\18@161759 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Something I came across today - mpstart will read fuses and ID
locations from withon a .obj file, so there's no need to keep
setting the fuses each time you load it up. The only problem is
that to get mpalc to place data at $2000-2007 you need to use
org beyond its defined limits so you get a fatal error for each
word of data when assembling.
Perhaps ASPIC copes with this OK?

I've also descovered a problem when using 16C84s that once in a while
they lock up and only a powerdown will start them off again. The reset
pin doesn't do anything. It occurs primarily if I use my in-circuit programmer
after the chip has already been running. After the programming cycle is
complete, the device is presented with a reset pulse but just sits there.
If the device is programmed straight after power-up, the reset pulse
after programming starts it and it runs the program.
Any ideas?  All I can think of is that it's latchup on the MCLR pin
but I've tried driving it through a resistor, and non of the voltages
are outside the supply rails (except the 12V for programming).

Any ideas?
Thanks,
Simon
--
******************************************************************************
* Simon Harrison,  University of Newcastle U. Tyne    *                      *
* S.J.HarrisonTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamuk.ac.newcastle                        *   Oook               *
* Fax: 091-222-8180, Attn: S.Harrison                 *        - Librarian   *
* Telex (Preferred): 53654 UNINEW G, mark 1st line:   *                      *
* "TO:  S.J.HARRISON (DEPT. OF ELEC. ENG.)"           *                      *
******************************************************************************

1994\08\18@174037 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
> Something I came across today - mpstart will read fuses and ID
> locations from withon a .obj file, so there's no need to keep
> setting the fuses each time you load it up. The only problem is
> that to get mpalc to place data at $2000-2007 you need to use
> org beyond its defined limits so you get a fatal error for each
> word of data when assembling.
> Perhaps ASPIC copes with this OK?

Of course ASPIC supports this. The file DEMO.ZIP available on my BBS
(604-597-3479), Microchip's BBS and a few ftp sites shows how. Here is an
excerpt:

(From PICMACRO.ZIP)

...
      .switch PICDEVICE

       .case   1654
       .cpu    16c54
_RESVEC =       $01FF                   ;16c54
IDLOC = _RESVEC+1
FUSELOC = $FFF
       DEFSEG  REGS,  $00, $20         ;initial regs
       DEFSEG  CODE, $000,_RESVEC      ;Base code segment
       DEFSEG  RESET,_RESVEC,_RESVEC+1 ;Reset Vector
       DEFSEG ID,IDLOC,IDLOC+4        ;ID word segment
       DEFSEG FUSES,FUSELOC,FUSELOC+1  ;Config fuses

       .else

       .case   1655
       .cpu    16c55
_RESVEC =       $01FF                   ;16c55
IDLOC = _RESVEC+1
FUSELOC = $FFF
       DEFSEG  REGS,   $00, $20        ;initial regs
...
<code ommitted>


       .switch PICDEVICE
       .case 1654
       .case 1655
       .case 1656
       .case 1657
_CP     = %00001000             ;Code protect (0 = PROTECT)
_WDTE   = %00000100             ;WDT 0 = disable
_LPOSC  = 0                     ;LP Osc select
_XTOSC  = 1                     ;XT Osc select
_HSOSC  = 2                     ;HS Osc select
_RCOSC  = 3                     ;RC Osc select

       .else
       .case 1671
       .case 1684
_CP     = %00010000             ;Code protect (0 = PROTECT)
_PWRTE  = %00001000             ;Power up timer enable 0=disable
_WDTE   = %00000100             ;WDT 0 = disable
_LPOSC  = 0                     ;LP Osc select
_XTOSC  = 1                     ;XT Osc select
_HSOSC  = 2                     ;HS Osc select
_RCOSC  = 3                     ;RC Osc select
       .else
       .case 1742
_FPMM1  = %00010000             ;Extended Microcontroller (0 = CODE
PROTECT)
_FPMM2  = %01000000             ;Microcontroller mode (0 = CODE PROTECT)
_FPMM3  = %01010000             ;Microprocessor mode (0 = CODE PROTECT)
_FWDT1  = %00001100             ;WDT prescaler = 1  (0=disabled)
_FWDT64 = %00000100             ;WDT prescaler = 1
_FWDT256 = %00001000            ;WDT prescaler = 256
_LFOSC  = 0                     ;LP Osc select
_RCOSC  = 1                     ;RC Osc select
_XTOSC  = 2                     ;XT Osc select
_ECOSC  = 3                     ;EC Osc select (external clock)
       .endif

...
(From PLD.ASM  (the initial file))
;**********************************************************************
;*
;* Define PIC options and ID
;*
;**********************************************************************
       .if !clop_d             ;simulator won't tolerate fuses!

       SEG FUSES               ;Config fuse area

       .word _XTOSC|_CP|_PWRTE ;Mode: xt osc, no code protext, timer
enabled

       .if isdef( IDLOC )      ;if there is an ID area (ie. not 17C42)
        SEG ID
        .word  _year&$0f,_month,_day,_hour      ;set id number to compile
time
       .endif
       .endif
----------------------------
Note that the above code also generates a default id code as the compile
time
in BCD.

- Don Lekei

1994\08\18@174657 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Sorry. Didn't mean to cast doubts about your program.... It's just I don't
use a PC for most of my work so don't really know anything about ASPIC.
I don't suppose you'd do an Atari version...
Simon
--
******************************************************************************
* Simon Harrison,  University of Newcastle U. Tyne    *                      *
* RemoveMES.J.HarrisonTakeThisOuTspamuk.ac.newcastle                        *   Oook               *
* Fax: 091-222-8180, Attn: S.Harrison                 *        - Librarian   *
* Telex (Preferred): 53654 UNINEW G, mark 1st line:   *                      *
* "TO:  S.J.HARRISON (DEPT. OF ELEC. ENG.)"           *                      *
******************************************************************************

'memory query...more administrivia'
1994\08\18@230736 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
what do people here use/suggest for external (serial) memory.

we have an application requiring approximately 100Kbytes of non-
volatile memory in a low-power sensing/data-logging unit.

battery backed sram, eeprom... flash?

-jory bell
@spam@jorySTOPspamspammit.edu

on a list administrivia note (which will seem more towards the
trivial for experienced listserv users):

when i added all the "old" list members to the new list, the
listserv wanted to make "names" for everyone, so pretty much
everyone got names "pic user". in order to let the server properly
label your mail wth your correct name, you can send a message to:

TakeThisOuTlistservTakeThisOuTspamRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu

with message body as follows:

register <your name>


you don't have to mention your email address or anything, since the
server software will see that from your mail.

having the server know your "real" name is not a big deal, but it
lets other list recipients see who a message is from (especially if
their mail software shows only the real name, and not the email
address).

finally/also, if you are getting "acknoledgement" email from the list
server when you send a message, you can send a message to the listserver
(same address as above) with the body:

set noack

you can send both commands ("register <your name>" and "set noack")
on separate lines in the same message.

hope this helps ome people.

feel free to send me comments on/about the list. especially and issues
pertaining to the changeover to the new server.

1994\08\18@230736 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
what do people here use/suggest for external (serial) memory.

we have an application requiring approximately 100Kbytes of non-
volatile memory in a low-power sensing/data-logging unit.

battery backed sram, eeprom... flash?

-jory bell
spam_OUTjoryspamspam.....mit.edu

on a list administrivia note (which will seem more towards the
trivial for experienced listserv users):

when i added all the "old" list members to the new list, the
listserv wanted to make "names" for everyone, so pretty much
everyone got names "pic user". in order to let the server properly
label your mail wth your correct name, you can send a message to:

listserv.....spam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu

with message body as follows:

register <your name>


you don't have to mention your email address or anything, since the
server software will see that from your mail.

having the server know your "real" name is not a big deal, but it
lets other list recipients see who a message is from (especially if
their mail software shows only the real name, and not the email
address).

finally/also, if you are getting "acknoledgement" email from the list
server when you send a message, you can send a message to the listserver
(same address as above) with the body:

set noack

you can send both commands ("register <your name>" and "set noack")
on separate lines in the same message.

hope this helps ome people.

feel free to send me comments on/about the list. especially and issues
pertaining to the changeover to the new server.

'Clearview In-Circuit Emulator'
1994\08\18@232019 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Anybody here got one of these? Have you used other ICEs that compete
with it? It seems like a pretty good price ($699) if it works as
advertised, and I've used the front end software when it was just
a simulator. At least, it *looks* the same.....

spamBeGoneforbesmspamspam_OUTcsos.orst.edu
Mark G. forbes

'Copyright on mpalc'
1994\08\19@065946 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
How does the copyright work for versions of mpalc downloadable from the
microchip BBS? If you already own PICSTART, then I presume that it is OK
to download new versions (that's what they are there for), but what if you
don't own PICSTART? Is it still legal to download and use mpalc? If so, is
it OK to distribute it without charge to other people?

Just curious....

Simon
--
******************************************************************************
* Simon Harrison,  University of Newcastle U. Tyne    *                      *
* EraseMES.J.Harrison.....spamuk.ac.newcastle                        *   Oook               *
* Fax: 091-222-8180, Attn: S.Harrison                 *        - Librarian   *
* Telex (Preferred): 53654 UNINEW G, mark 1st line:   *                      *
* "TO:  S.J.HARRISON (DEPT. OF ELEC. ENG.)"           *                      *
******************************************************************************

'data sheets of PICs via ftp available?'
1994\08\19@104441 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
hello PICcers all over the world,

does anyone know, if the data-sheets of PICs are available via ftp?
are they in ascii-format / word-format / postscript?

or has anyone good contact to microchip to get the files and post them an a
ftp-server?

thanks,
Siggi
spamgrobKILLspamspam@spam@rz_nwfs2.rz.uni-ulm.de

'Microcontroller: Any Ideas?'
1994\08\19@104649 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
>
> I need a microcontroller to do the following..any ideas anyone?
>
> 1K internal EEPROM  (memory capacity could be less or more)
> More than 1K internal RAM
> RAM should be non-volatile in sleep mode
> 2x 8bit ports (or eqivalent)
> Or 1 4bit, 1 8bit, R/W and AS pins
> It should also be easily programmable (PIC 15 or 16 or 17 series programmer
> available to me, or 16HC11 types
> If onboard RAM is not available, this is not disastrous, please send me
> any ideas if you have them...
>
> Desperately,
> Bryan
>
> PS Please mail asap, as I need to get something built in the next three
weeks...

--
---------------------------------
BRYAN CROTAZ - b.crotazspamspamTakeThisOuTic.ac.uk
---------------------------------
TECHNICAL MANAGER
Student Television Of Imperial College
Beit Quad, Prince Consort Road
London  SW7 2BB
Tel. 071-594-8104
Fax. 071-225-2309 attn. STOIC

'email address for Microchip Inc'
1994\08\22@133005 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Does anyone know the email address for Microchip Inc ??

Rasher

'Autobaud for serial link'
1994\08\22@133009 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Has anyone got some code or ideas on how to sense the baud rate
of an Asynchronous Serial I/O automatically. Ideally this should be
done continuously allowing a RC clocked PIC to adjust calibration
as its operating freq changes.

Rasher

'example C code'
1994\08\22@150956 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Hi,

I recently purchased the Custom Computer Services PCM C compiler for
PICs. if any PCM users would like to send me some example code that
they have used successfully with this compiler that would be
appreciated.

       thanks,
       owen

'Autobaud for serial link'
1994\08\22@154606 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
If you time the length of the start bit, you can sense bit rate in less
than one character on any odd character...

BillW

1994\08\23@040926 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
I have considered using the start bit to give the timing of the link
(baud rate) which as you say will only work for 50% of characters.

I was also thinking in terms of timing edge transitions and dividing
this time by the bit time to give number of bits at same level (mark or
space). Has anyone else considered this rather than the more conventional
measure the link at bit rate aftre delay of bit rate/2 from start  ??

I hope some of this makes sense !!!

Rasher

'Timer0 and Timer1 don't Go'
1994\08\23@074130 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
To the person with an answer:

I'm still floundering as a rookie.  I'm trying to get the timer0 and timer1 to
count along with the program step on the 16c64 simulated on the mpsim.  I tried
clrf trisa, but bits 4 and 5 will not clear.  Does anyone know how to get the
timers running?

Also, do the interrupts for timer1 work on the mpsim?  Presently, I'm using
the sim41603 version.  If a newer version exists, I'll give it a try.

Does anyone have the source code for the mpsim simulator?  If so, how can
I get a copy?

Please help a rookie.

Yours,

Derrick Early

'Autobaud for serial link'
1994\08\23@143750 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
I have seen several systems where it was required to press
the space bar as the first character. In serial communications,
the least significant bit is transmitted first. For a space, the
bit pattern would look like the following:

_________                              ____           _______________
       |                             |    |         |
Mark   |                             |    |         |
       |_____________________________|    |_________|
            .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .
  1    Start  b0   b1   b2   b3   b4   b5   b6   b7 stop1 stop2  Mark



This conforms to 1 start bit, 8 data bits, no parity and two stop bits.
The processor then has six bits that are low in which to increment a
counter and calculate the serial data rate relative to it's own clock
frequency. The longer time for measurement makes for a more accurate
determination of the serial data rate.

Another example would be to use a ( , 8 , H , X , h or an x. These
characters will allow a measurement for four bits long. Althogh a
little less accurate, you only need to right shift your counter
twice ( divide by four ) in order to calculate your reload data
for your bit counter.

The BASIC interpreter in the 8051AH-BASIC chips requires you to press
the space bar to log on, and then for the real time clock to work,
you give the command xtal = xx.xxxxxx to match the crystal connected
to the micrcontroller.

Hope this help someone,
Jerry

'timer0 and timer1'
1994\08\24@065025 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Ok, so I'm a rookie.  I finally got timer0 and timer1 to go last night on
mpsim.  I made two mistakes.

First, I tried to get rid of all the warnings when I ran mpasm.  As a result, I
set all my register locations to 7 bits.  This confused mpsim, since it likes
all 8 bits.

Second, I had the order of the registers mixed up for bank 1.  I had the
option location in the wrong place.

Now, I only need to get the timer1 interrupts working.  Hopefully, I won't
make so many stupid mistakes this time.

I didn't get any replies on my initial message.  I hope that the mail is
getting through.  I guess since it is summertime that everyone is out having
fun!


Gotta go,

Derrick Early, the rookie

1994\08\24@065025 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Ok, so I'm a rookie.  I finally got timer0 and timer1 to go last night on
mpsim.  I made two mistakes.

First, I tried to get rid of all the warnings when I ran mpasm.  As a result, I
set all my register locations to 7 bits.  This confused mpsim, since it likes
all 8 bits.

Second, I had the order of the registers mixed up for bank 1.  I had the
option location in the wrong place.

Now, I only need to get the timer1 interrupts working.  Hopefully, I won't
make so many stupid mistakes this time.

I didn't get any replies on my initial message.  I hope that the mail is
getting through.  I guess since it is summertime that everyone is out having
fun!


Gotta go,

Derrick Early, the rookie

'Topic 0.1 released -- a free PIC assembler with so'
1994\08\25@072523 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
You can get topic-0.1.zip from ftp.funet.fi in the directory
/pub/microprocs/pic/topic. (If your filing system doesn't support
multiple dots in the filename, enter a command like "get topic-0.1.zip
topic01.zip" to store it with a different local filename).

Below I've included the short README file.

Enjoy!

-- vinsci

README:

This README file describes Topic release 0.1, an assembler for the PIC
microcontroller series.  The PIC is manufactured by Microchip Technlogy
Inc.

This assembler is published under the GNU General Public License in
the hope that others will use and benefit from this program as well as
contribute their own improvements and extensions for all of us to
share.

What it doesn't do (yet):

While I believe Topic does things the right way, it currently lacks
features that will hopefully be available in later versions.  Such as
pseudo instructions (easily added), macros (the code to insert macros
already exist and works), optional ",0" or ",1" as a second argument
(easiliy added), real expressions and operators (this is the biggest
drawback in this first release), conditional assembly (we need to see
if GASP, the Gnu ASsembler Preprocessor, suits our needs) etc.

What it does:

It does support symbols (any length symbol name), file inclusion, good
warning and error message capability (some of the messages in this
release are on the lighter side -- see the source in case you don't
understand a message).  It also supports a variety of ways to write
constants.  It writes a simple symbol table, reporting which symbols
were really used and which were not.  It writes an object file in the
same format as Microchip's MPALC assembler if the assembly was
successful, or none if not.  Topic doesn't crash your machine when it
doesn't see what it expected (unlike MPALC).

This software is pretty much experimental so far (it's less than a
week old, what do you expect?), but it is cleanly written.  There are
even a few comments.

Currently, it only supports the 12 bit variants of the PIC, but I've
designed the assembler so that it is very easy to extend it to the 14
bit core as well and make the choice while the assembler is running
(ie. using an assembler directive).  Some constants in the source now
make the assembler believe the memory size is 2048 instruction words
as for the PIC 16C57, which I work with, hmmm ;-), but all this is
very easily changed.

OK, how do I improve it and recompile it?

First get a standard C compiler.  I used the GNU C compiler GCC which
is available for free on the net and is a very good compiler and has
everything you need.
 For MSDOS systems, get the variant of GCC called DJGPP:

       File location:
           host:      omnigate.clarkson.edu
           login:     ftp
           password:  send your e-mail address
           directory: ~ftp/pub/msdos/djgpp

If you have a make utility, just CD into the Topic subdirectory and
type MAKE.  To compile by hand, give the command "gcc -o topic
topic.c".  Easy!  (If you're using DJGPP, you can now run the file
topic, which is still in unix format, with the command "go32 topic
source.asm" to assemble source.asm and produce source.obj.  You can
also create a normal executable with DJGPP, after that the command
would be "topic source.asm", as on a unix system.)
 Spots that could use some improvement are marked by the word fixme.

Are you improving the assembler?

Any improvements and/or bug fixes that are clean and well thought out
are welcome by e-mail at the address below.  Please use the DIFF
command "diff -c2 topic.c newtopic.c >diffs" to produce the diffs
file, and e-mail me that along with a description of the diff in
question.  Make separate diffs for changes/improvements that aren't
related and send them in separate e-mails.  All changes should follow
the GNU coding standards to reasonable extent to maintain readability.

Enjoy!  E-Mail: RemoveMEvinsciRemoveMEspamnic.funet.fi
       Mail:   Leonard Norrgard
               Skolhusgatan 32 A 14
               FIN-65100 VASA
       Phone:  +358-49-434808

-- vinsci

1994\08\25@074828 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
>
> You can get topic-0.1.zip from ftp.funet.fi in the directory
> /pub/microprocs/pic/topic. (If your filing system doesn't support
> multiple dots in the filename, enter a command like "get topic-0.1.zip
> topic01.zip" to store it with a different local filename).
>
> Below I've included the short README file.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> -- vinsci
>
Good!  I'm glad to see someone starting this!  I'm presently using the gnu
c compiler, and I'm pleased to see some software development for the pic's
following the same route.

What about a simulator?  It sure would be nice to have some control over
what a simulator can do.

Yours,

Derrick Early, the rookie

1994\08\25@080944 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Damn, beaten by a couple of days... ;-)

I have also just finished an assembler for pics, just the
documentation and a bit more testing left to do before its released.
Compared to topic is has:

pros: macros, real expressions, conditional assembly, local variables
and labels, 12 and 14bit pics, a simple disassembler.

cons: own object file format (with conversion tools to and from
intel hex.) C format numbers (i.e. 0xff etc), and error handling
is "simplistic" and finally no clever name (topic, aspic) thought
up yet ;-)

I will try to get the docs done this weekend and put it up for ftp
next week.  It has been built under linux and gcc, but should work under
any unix or even dos (using djgpp).

=%-)

Ian

p.s. votes for next tool being taken, simulator or picstart code downloader.
p.p.s. does anyone know the format of the picstart download protocol or
e-mail address for someone at microchip who might know.

'Re.Autobaud'
1994\08\25@142801 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Concerning Autobaud, I started down the path of using RC PIC's for low cost.  Cr
ystals
and ceramic resonators were over $1.00 where RC circuits were $.10-.15.  Then I
found
ceramic resonators from FAI at $.26 each.  Its hard not to take the .3%  frequen
cy
stability over an RC for $.15.  Also very good prices on PIC's.  Call Chris or N
ancy at
1-800-303-5701 or 303-237-1400.  This is not a recommendation for FAI, just a co
st
effective place to buy some items.
PS  Anyone had experiance with PIC running stright off 115VAC power, no xformer?

'PICs & Real Time Clocks'
1994\08\25@151026 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Hello PIC users,

Can any of you recommend a Real Time Clock that is easy to use with
the PIC16C57?  I have considered the DS1603 (a 32 bit elapsed time
module -- with crystal and battery built in).  I have also heard of
the TIC (Time In a Can) -- which is a self contained lithium battery
with a one line serial access to a RTC.  Unfortunately I can't figure
out who makes the TIC, or where to get the DS1603 (or even how much
one would cost.)

So could anyone tell me:

1) A good RTC to use with the PIC (<4 I/O lines please).
or
2) Who makes / where to get the TIC.
or
3) Where to get the DS1603.

Thanks in advance!

--Jason Gorden

1994\08\25@151853 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Philips/Signetics makes two I2C RTCs. The PCF8573 & the PCF8583
both 8 pin dips. The '83 also has 256 X 8 static ram on board.
Don't know where you can get these mail order, same problem for
the Dallas part, but check with the distributors in your area,
which is?

Brian

1994\08\25@153136 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Dallas will sell direct. Charge to the plastic of your choice.
Gordon

1994\08\25@153551 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Responding to msg by TakeThisOuTbread@spam@spam@spam@MAXWELL.EE.WASHINGTON.EDU (Brian
Read) on

>Philips/Signetics makes two I2C RTCs. The PCF8573 & the
>PCF8583  both 8 pin dips. The '83 also has 256 X 8
>static ram on board.  Don't know where you can get
>these mail order, same problem for  the Dallas part,
>but check with the distributors in your area,  which
>is?
>
>Brian

I'll also recommend the Signetics parts. You'll have the
added overhead of the I2C code but that should not be too bad.
Plus if you use the 8583 you get those 240 bytes of ram to play
with. I have spare PCF8583 (surface mount) on the shelf if you
need samples and have problems with the distributors.

Dallas parts can be ordered direct from Dallas Semiconductor.
(214) 450-0448. Double check that part # though. In my slightly

out of date data book the part number for the "Time-in-a-can"
is
DS1495L-XX. Call and get a data book anyway, they have a large
selection of RTCs and other neat stuff.

-carl-

Henry Carl Ott     N2RVQ
TakeThisOuTcarlspamspampipeline.com
-------------------------------
entropy requires no maintenance
-------------------------------

1994\08\25@155042 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
  "So could anyone tell me:  (3) Where to get the DS1603."

Dallas Semiconductor has a small-order desk that will take 1-10 piece
orders charged to credit cards.  Call +1-214-450-0448.  I've only used
them once, but found them very friendly.

                               Paul Milazzo <KILLspammilazzoKILLspamspamspamBeGonebbn.com>
                               BBN Systems and Technologies
                               Cambridge, MA

'Dallas'
1994\08\25@163520 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
> Dallas Semiconductor has a small-order desk that will take 1-10 piece
> orders charged to credit cards.  Call +1-214-450-0448.  I've only used
> them once, but found them very friendly.

The number I've used is 800-336-6933 which is very convenient for the US
folks.  The direct number is still needed internationally.   I've used this
number a couple of times and found them very responsive and prompt.  Dallas
is to be commended for providing this level of service to the "little
guys."

Peter Fales                       AT&T, Room 9C-242
N9IYJ                             2000 N. Naperville Rd.
UUCP:   ...att!intgp1!psfales     Naperville, IL 60566
Internet: spamBeGonepeter.falesKILLspamspamatt.com     work: (708) 979-8031

'PICs & Real Time Clocks'
1994\08\25@190615 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
I've had good success with an LP PIC and a 32khz Xtal as an RTC !

I feed the OscOut signal thru an op-amp buffer to the RTCC input with the
divider set to 128.  ( I use an TL27L1 .. can just barely buffer 32Khz, but
draws only 10-15 ua while doing so.  This MAY be overkill, but some LP Xtals
are sensitive to load, and run at multiples of their resonant if loaded too
heavily. )

I then poll the RTCC register, and when bit 7 is set, 128 x 256 32Khz clocks
have occurred.

DO NOT test bit7 of the RTCC.  Move it into a temporary register, and test
that.  That way, the lesser significant bits of the RTCC are unaffected.
( Testing the RTCC clears it as well. ) If you're a little late polling the
RTCC, little is lost, as the RTCC just wraps around and maintains those
bits for the next count.  Yes an individual "seconds" rollover may occur a
little late, but the error is NOT cumulative, merely a small offset.


( Here follows a mix of Microchip and Parallax code )


               mov     OPTION,#100111b         ; assign to pin
                                               ; trigger on 0->1
                                               ; assign prescaler to RTCC
                                               ; set prescalar to 1:128
check_seconds
              mov     w,RTCC
              mov     temp,w
              jb      temp.7,:rollover
              ret
:rollover


The above option and example was used for a 2 PIC board, in which the 32Khz
PIC was not doing duty as the RTC. ( He was a UART ! )  If a single
"programmable RTC" is desired, then the opamp is not necessary, and the
option assignments change, but idea remains the same.


Alan

--

Alan Rothenbush             |   There must be an ideal world, a sort of
Academic Computing Services |   mathematicians's paradise, where everything
Simon Fraser University     |   happens as it does in textbooks.
Burnaby, B.C., Canada       |                            Bertrand Russell

'Topic 0.1 released -- a free PIC assembler with so'
1994\08\26@082307 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
> Damn, beaten by a couple of days... ;-)
> I have also just finished an assembler for pics, just the
> documentation and a bit more testing left to do before its released.

Heh ;-) I skipped the docs part altogether, which probably saved a
couple of days...

> Compared to topic is has:
>
> pros: macros, real expressions, conditional assembly, local variables
> and labels, 12 and 14bit pics, a simple disassembler.

Sounds great!

> cons: own object file format (with conversion tools to and from
> intel hex.)

This is not necessarily a con; running those conversion tools
is anyway easiliy automated as needed.

> C format numbers (i.e. 0xff etc), and error handling
> is "simplistic" and finally no clever name (topic, aspic) thought
> up yet ;-)

Well, it seems a bit hotter than Topic, so maybe Tropic would be nice? ;-)

> Ian
>
> p.s. votes for next tool being taken, simulator or picstart code downloader.
> p.p.s. does anyone know the format of the picstart download protocol or
> e-mail address for someone at microchip who might know.

A picstart code downloader should be pretty easy and very desirable to
get out of the MSDOG/Windows dependance (I just hate to have to boot
my PC ten times a day whenever the system crashes; not that booting
takes such a long time but it interrupts my flow of thoughts).

For the simulator which I'm sure we'll build sooner or later, I've
been thinking of using the combination of C and Tcl/Tk (see
comp.lang.tcl).  Tcl is a rather nice library that would give the
simulator great scripting capabilities, while Tk is a GUI toolkit for
Tcl with the look and feel of Motif.  Tcl/Tk interfaces very well with
C allowing the simulator to be written partly in Tcl (faster to
edit/test/fix) and partly in C (faster final code); thus one can start
most of it off in Tcl and then code the timecritical parts in C
routines as needed.  Tk provides some nice features that are ideal for
a CPU simulator, or any program that needs to update screen data as
variables change.
 Tcl/Tk come with an X11 or BSD type public license and are available
under both Unix/X11 (Linux, for example) and MSDOS/Windows (for those
unfortunate of you ;-), so the simulator could be used by a large
number of people.

-- vinsci

'Better BASIC STAMP for Pic . (the size)'
1994\08\29@084637 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Hi everybody,

I am looking either for the internal software of the interpreter
pic chip of the BASIC STAMP, or better for an upgraded version (>1.4)
that would accept more than 256 bytes of code (many more please...)
Please answer me about the availability of a new basic with PIC chips.
Yours faithfuly,

.............---
.......__.../...\
......|..|_/.....\
..____|..........*\
.|......Strasbourg/
..\............../
...\............|
....\.(France)..|
..../............\
....|......__.....|
....|...../..\___/
....|.....|
....\_____|

~A
Herve GALMICHE
ALCATEL BUSINESS SYSTEMS
CC 696
1 rte du Docteur Albert Schweitzer
F- 67408 ILLKIRCH Cedex FRANCE
Phone +33 88677700 ask for 78004
e-mail galmiche@spam@spamKILLspamsxb.bsf.alcatel.fr

Yours Faithfully,
H.GALMICHE

'Which Programmer?'
1994\08\29@091420 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
>
> Hi everyone.
>
> I'm just starting to learn about the PICs, and I'm looking for
> recommendations for a programmer (for a PC).  I've seen a couple listed in
> the FAQ, but I'd like a few opinions before I commit any of my hard-earned
> cash to one of them.
> Here's what I'd like to know...
>
> 1. Prices.  I'm looking for something affordable.  I've seen a couple of
> them
>    advertized for under $200 U.S.   That would be about right for me.
> 2. Ease of use.  Remember, I'm a beginner.
> 3. Which microcontrollers will it program?


I use the Parallax programmer, which is under $200, is extremely easy
to use and will program only (I think) 16C5X and 16C71.  I also use
the Parallax downloader (ROM emulator) and I have been very pleased
with it too. No fancy Windows interface, but would you honestly want
one?

I would rather have a command line utility -- the Parallax programming
software: "PEP" is, unfortunately, interactive, but stil only takes a few
keystrokes (and no painful mouse-clicks) to program a PIC.

So that's my opinion, but I have no experience really with other
programmers or emulators.

--Jason

'Dallas RTC (also: some comarison of 6811 and pic)'
1994\08\29@110911 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
>> Dallas Semiconductor has a small-order desk that will take 1-10 piece
>> orders charged to credit cards.  Call +1-214-450-0448.  I've only used
>> them once, but found them very friendly.
>
>The number I've used is 800-336-6933 which is very convenient for the US
>folks.  The direct number is still needed internationally.   I've used this
>number a couple of times and found them very responsive and prompt.  Dallas
>is to be commended for providing this level of service to the "little
>guys."

[mount soapbox]

Dallas Semiconductor commentary:

Just to put in my two cents: I usually advise against using most any Dallas
semiconductor compenent (YMMV). In particuar, I had bad experiences with
their digital pot, their power manager chip, and ther real time clock (a
bunch of which I have languishing/sitting around in SMT if anyone's
desperate to buy).

[as an aside: when i first started dealing with DS, i too thought they were
a cool, small company, willing to proving service to the "little guy." but
this initial impression was eventually overcome by technical problems we
had with their parts, seemingly haphazard design of their software
protocols (look at the register arrangement for their clock cips) all of
which was compounded by unhelpful customer "support."]

In our last oceanographic instrument, we went through a prototyping run
using several DS components. We we also using a 6811. By the time we went
into our first generation, we had abandoned all the Dallas chips (still had
te 6811). Instead, we were using custom power management, and a Harris ICM
7170 RTC. The Harris part worked quite well. In particular (as I recall off
the top of my head), the Dallas parts would sometimes start, sometimes not
depending on the minute vagaries of the reset condition. It also took more
power and was less accurate than the Harris part. The communication
protocol for the Dallas part was particularly arcane, and just plain
annoying. Oh yeah, the Dallas part would only let you set these incremental
alarms (1 week max interval) while the Harris part let you set an alarm at
any set point. The Harris part was also a bit cheaper than the DS part, but
that could vary. Read throuhg the two data sheets carefully (and look for
oter alternatives as well, of course).

A little PIC vs 6811 commentry:

By our second (and present) generation of the ocean sampler hardware (which
must keep time for up to a year in a harsh environment), we had new
electronics based on the 16c84 in which we got to bag all of the power
management stuff (the pic takes so little power!) as well as the RTC (it
was easier to just do the clock stuff on the pic - and we didn't need to
sleep all the time due to power restraints). We went from over 150
components, to less than 2 dozen with a huge simplification in programming
(no need to interact wth the real time clock chip, or del with power-saving
through powe downs, etc).

[dismount soapbox]

-jory

1994\08\29@120212 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Jory,

Thank you for the soapbox commentary.  Now I can free up some space on my
bookshelf.

Do you or any others have any suggestions for a source of crystal oscillators
for 20 MHz?  I need it to operate from -40 to 105 C.

Yours,

Derrick Early

1994\08\29@133121 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
You may want to try Digi-Key (1-800-344-4439).  That temperature range will
be pushing the specs.  So, you probably will need to go to some of the
crystal manufactures, such as CTS, Epson of AMerica or ECS.  Sounds
like a military temperature range??
By the way the official operating specs for the pic chip is 0 to 70 C.

Mike

'Crystals and Temperature Limits'
1994\08\29@140312 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
>
> You may want to try Digi-Key (1-800-344-4439).  That temperature range will
> be pushing the specs.  So, you probably will need to go to some of the
> crystal manufactures, such as CTS, Epson of AMerica or ECS.  Sounds
> like a military temperature range??
> By the way the official operating specs for the pic chip is 0 to 70 C.
>
> Mike
>

Thank you for the reply Mike.  I'll give them a call.  I was hoping to get an
extended temperature version of the 16c64.  I think that they work in the -40 to
105 C range.  Since I've already written a mess of code for it, can someone
verify this?

Yours,

Derrick Early

'Which Programmer?'
1994\08\29@152143 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
I like the Baradine Microburner because it supports all existing PICs (with
appropriate adapters), and although it is shipped with a !@#$ interactive
interface like the other ones, it is completely ascii terminal based and
can be simply controlled by command line using the FREEWARE BURN.ZIP which
you can pick up on Microchip's BBS, my BBS, or probably several ftp sites.
It can also be operated  from nearly any computer with a serial port!

I think it's a bit more than $200 US but well worth it in time and errors
saved through automated programming!

- Don Lekei

'an555 - whats up !!'
1994\08\29@153008 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
an555 is REALLY OLD. It'l take you a bit of work to get it to compile with
any of the current tools.

------- Advertizing suplement --------------------------------
Try ASPIC with it, it's a lot easier to debug, because it provides more
meaningful error messages an will pop up your editior on the offending
line(s) if your editor supports that feature (eg. Brief, multi-edit,
Winedit, Codewrite, etc.).
------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Don

'Dallas RTC (also: some comarison of 6811 and pic)'
1994\08\29@154045 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
I read your story about Dallas Semiconductors.  It's something that I'll
file away for future reference.  I've had very brief interactions with
them and haven't actually used any of their parts in a project, so far
they've been pretty nice to me.  I look at their chips more closely
before I use them anywhere...

But I was curious about the ocean sampler hardware that you described in
your post.  Just out of curiousity, what is the functionality of this
device?

Thanks,
Rudy Moore

'Which Programmer?'
1994\08\29@175844 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
>
> Hi everyone.
>
> I'm just starting to learn about the PICs, and I'm looking for
> recommendations for a programmer (for a PC).  I've seen a couple listed in
> the FAQ, but I'd like a few opinions before I commit any of my hard-earned
> cash to one of them.
> Here's what I'd like to know...
>
> 1. Prices.  I'm looking for something affordable.  I've seen a couple of
> them
>    advertized for under $200 U.S.   That would be about right for me.
>

There is also one  free programmer for the 16C84 . It is available via
anonymous FTP at : bode.ee.ualberta.ca , /pub/cookbook/ibm/parallel/...
You will find a schematic and software in C.

Hope this helps,

--
     ____________________________      __________________________________
    /                           /\    /                                 /\
   /   Argiris A. Kranidiotis _/ /\  /       E-mail (Internet):       _/ /\
  /  University Of Athens    / \/   /                                / \/
 / Informatics Department    /\    /  EraseMEakraRemoveMEspam@spam@zeus.di.uoa.ariadne-t.gr  /\
/___________________________/ /   /_________________________________/ /
\___________________________\/    \_________________________________\/
 \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \     \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \

'Parallax's programmer and PEP'
1994\08\29@223610 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Jason E. Gorden prophesized:
> I would rather have a command line utility -- the Parallax programming
> software: "PEP" is, unfortunately, interactive, but stil only takes a few
> keystrokes (and no painful mouse-clicks) to program a PIC.

Good news for you : it *does* have a command line interface.  I can't
recall exact syntax right now, but check your manuals (or pep /? maybe).
You basically tell pep everything it needs (the name of the hex file, etc)
on the command line, and you never even see the interface screen.


--
Greg Bell        | "Counting SUCKS!"
RemoveMEgregspamspamEraseMEcqt.com     |          -Beavis
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CommQuest Technologies, Inc.     (619) 633-1618 x133

'Fwd:Re:Re: Crystals and Temperature Limits'
1994\08\30@061952 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
e heard.
--------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------
{Quote hidden}

Hallo Derrick!


The 16C64, as far as I understand,will be available in extended temp.
Initially I think that Industrial is the one Microchip will put thru.
It has -40 - +85 C as it_s limits. The one you are looking for is the "E" temp
which is Automotive temprange going from -40 to +125 C and that one will be
early 1995 or something.

/Johan, FAE Sales Sweden

'16c64 Temperature Range'
1994\08\30@065346 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
> Hallo Derrick!
>
>
> The 16C64, as far as I understand,will be available in extended temp.
> Initially I think that Industrial is the one Microchip will put thru.
> It has -40 - +85 C as it_s limits. The one you are looking for is the "E" temp
> which is Automotive temprange going from -40 to +125 C and that one will be
> early 1995 or something.
>
>  /Johan, FAE Sales Sweden


Hi Johan,

I didn't know that the automotive temp version isn't in production presently.
Thank you for the update.  I can at least debug on the Industrial version for
starters, once I finish writing my code.  At the rate I'm going, the year 2000
will be my completion date.

Yours,

Derrick Early

'Dallas RTC (also: some comarison of 6811 and pic)'
1994\08\30@123908 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Sorry to hear about your bad experiences with Dallas.  I have not dealt
with them for some time, but several years ago I used many of their clock
chips and non-volatile memory controllers.  I was always completely
satisfied with their performance and their tech support.  They were a
fairly new company at the time - maybe they put extra effort into tech
support -now they're a bigger, established company maybe they have slacked
off in that department.

* Douglas Martin * Design Engr/Elec. Technician * STOPspamdmartin.....spambgsuvax.bgsu.edu *
*         BGSU Department of Chemistry - Bowling Green, Ohio - USA         *
* 'Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day . . .'   -  Pink Floyd *
*****                                                                  *****


On Sun, 28 Aug 1994, jory bell wrote:

{Quote hidden}

'Parallax or Picstart?'
1994\08\30@204457 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Thanks to everyone who has responded so far to my request for
opinions as to which PIC programmer to buy.  I haven't bought one
yet, but it looks like it's come down to either the PICSTART from
Microchip, or the Parallax programmer, mainly due to cost.

I thought I had settled on the Parallax one, but I found out that there's a
Microchip seminar coming to town (Vancouver), and that I can get the
"PICSTART development system" for $79US there. The seminar costs $99US, so
that puts my total cost at about the same as the Parallax programmer.  They
tell me that the seminar is very informative (5.5 hrs), and that you get
books and _product_samples_ with the PICSTART package.  That part sounds
good to me, but, as I am a beginner, I think the seminar may be way over my
head...

I haven't heard from anyone who has used the PICSTART.  Can someone
please give be a brief comparison of the PICSTART and the Parallax
programmers?

Thanks,


Richard Friesen                         Little Timmy took a drink,
(spamBeGoneRichard_FriesenRemoveMEspamRemoveMEmindlink.bc.ca)         But now he'll drink no more,
                                        For what he thought was H2O
                                        Was H2SO4
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


--


 Richard Friesen                        Little Timmy took a drink,
(@spam@Richard_FriesenspamBeGonespammindlink.bc.ca)        But now he'll drink no more,
                                        For what he thought was H2O
                                        Was H2SO4
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

1994\08\30@205739 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
I use the PICSTART all the time and think it is fine. It doesn't "remember"
the fuse settings so you will program them incorrectly sometimes if you don't
remember to "reset" them. The tools are fine, the documentation is adequate
but poorly formatted on the disk. Once you get past that they are fine. And
since the PICSTART uses the serial port rather than the parallel port it works
on more systems (like my IBM ThinkPad laptop which parallax has said they
won't make it work on, even though it is an *IBM* PC (ISA bus even), and
that is pretty stupid on my part. (ed note, yes I think the Parallax folks
are wankers but that isn't why I don't reccomend their stuff)).

--Chuck

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 1994 , 1995 only
- Today
- New search...