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PICList Thread
'8-Pin adapter hint'
1998\07\03@001915 by Jim robertson

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Folks,

Just a hint for those making/buying an 8-pin adapter for the 12Cxxx parts.
Don't!  Soon we will have, to love and behold, 14-pin PIC devices (E.g.
16C505) and  these parts will require a programming socket wired as it is
for the existing 8-pinners.

The tip here is to use at least a 14-pin socket for  your 8-pin parts and
TOP justify the 8-pinners. This way you already have a programming socket
ready for the 14-pin parts. Save $$ (money, currency, mullah, dosh  etc
for those living in countries where $$ doesn't apply.)

I thought of this while spying on the parallax site and feeling sorry for
those who have gone out and bought a 8-pin adapter already.

Jim

1998\07\06@094633 by Andy Kunz

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>The tip here is to use at least a 14-pin socket for  your 8-pin parts and
>TOP justify the 8-pinners. This way you already have a programming socket
>ready for the 14-pin parts. Save $$ (money, currency, mullah, dosh  etc
>for those living in countries where $$ doesn't apply.)

If you use the Parallax programmer with the Carmacon software, it is
possible to order the chip such that the 12C part top-justifies in the
18-pin socket.

Been there, done that.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\07\07@090242 by Jim robertson

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At 09:28 6/07/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>The tip here is to use at least a 14-pin socket for  your 8-pin parts and
>>TOP justify the 8-pinners. This way you already have a programming socket
>>ready for the 14-pin parts. Save $$ (money, currency, mullah, dosh  etc
>>for those living in countries where $$ doesn't apply.)
>
>If you use the Parallax programmer with the Carmacon software, it is
>possible to order the chip such that the 12C part top-justifies in the
>18-pin socket.
>
>Been there, done that.

Yes, but do you realize that VDD and GND are each driven by a single I/O
pin from the firmware? There is no real VDD switching for the 8-pin parts.

This is cheating if you ask me. (The parallax programmer has always driven
VDD from an I/O pin, but now both GND and VDD??? )

For eprom parts it may be ok but for EEPROM parts it is really "red-lining"
it. Wire-up a socket and do things right is what I  reckon.

Jim

>Andy
>
>==================================================================
>Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
>==================================================================
>

1998\07\07@121121 by Andy Kunz

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>Yes, but do you realize that VDD and GND are each driven by a single I/O
>pin from the firmware? There is no real VDD switching for the 8-pin parts.
>
>This is cheating if you ask me. (The parallax programmer has always driven
>VDD from an I/O pin, but now both GND and VDD??? )
>
>For eprom parts it may be ok but for EEPROM parts it is really "red-lining"
>it. Wire-up a socket and do things right is what I  reckon.

Fair questions.

Have you measured the current during programming?  Is not 20mA sufficient?

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\07\07@222541 by Mark Willis

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Andy Kunz wrote:
>
> >Yes, but do you realize that VDD and GND are each driven by a single I/O
> >pin from the firmware? There is no real VDD switching for the 8-pin parts.
> >
> >This is cheating if you ask me. (The parallax programmer has always driven
> >VDD from an I/O pin, but now both GND and VDD??? )
> >
> >For eprom parts it may be ok but for EEPROM parts it is really "red-lining"
> >it. Wire-up a socket and do things right is what I  reckon.
>
> Fair questions.
>
> Have you measured the current during programming?  Is not 20mA sufficient?
>
> Andy
>
> ==================================================================
> Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
> ==================================================================

 Even if it was more than that, you could use a HexFet per pin to
switch Vcc/Gnd pretty darn effectively, as an alternative;  THAT should
source sufficient current <G>

 Mark Willis, spam_OUTmwillisTakeThisOuTspamnwlink.com

1998\07\07@234604 by Jim robertson
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At 10:05 7/07/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>Yes, but do you realize that VDD and GND are each driven by a single I/O
>>pin from the firmware? There is no real VDD switching for the 8-pin parts.
>>
>>This is cheating if you ask me. (The parallax programmer has always driven
>>VDD from an I/O pin, but now both GND and VDD??? )
>>
>>For eprom parts it may be ok but for EEPROM parts it is really "red-lining"
>>it. Wire-up a socket and do things right is what I  reckon.
>
>Fair questions.
>
>Have you measured the current during programming?  Is not 20mA sufficient?
>
>Andy

Like I said, it is red-lining it. Look at the programming specs, 20mA max
to 50mA max at the few I looked at.  For EEPROM PICs it clearly is not
enough and on the limit for some EPROM parts.

(To say nothing about the I/O current for the rest of the programmer)

Also, in the pass  maximum programming  requirements  have in fact been
exceeded by the part.  (The 10mS programming time  for the 16C84 for
example.)

The parallax programmer is, and always was an "absolute masterpiece" in
cutting corners and very worthy of a $50 price tag.

I don't trust it, but hey, that's just me.


Jim

i=============================================================
>Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
>==================================================================
>

1998\07\08@094312 by Andy Kunz

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>Like I said, it is red-lining it. Look at the programming specs, 20mA max
>to 50mA max at the few I looked at.  For EEPROM PICs it clearly is not
>enough and on the limit for some EPROM parts.
>
>(To say nothing about the I/O current for the rest of the programmer)

When almost all the remaining pins are left unused (with an 8-pin PIC),
they really aren't using any power.  In my experience, the 12C parts have
such a small die that it really isn't a problem to power them this way.

>The parallax programmer is, and always was an "absolute masterpiece" in
>cutting corners and very worthy of a $50 price tag.

Sure is.  The absolute minimum.

>I don't trust it, but hey, that's just me.

It's a hobbyist prototype programmer, and as such works fine.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\07\09@055803 by Tom Handley

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  Andy, that is a nice touch. I'm overdue to check in with Carl and see
what's new. I've run several 12C509 devices with the Parallax/Carmacon
programmer but I'm still waiting for TDE to update CVASM to support the
12C67x devices. It looks like CVASM was updated from an ad I saw but I
could'nt find anything on their web site. I ordered the CD but that was
over a month ago...

  - Tom

At 09:28 AM 7/6/98 -0400, Andy Kunz wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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