Searching \ for '1999' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=1999
Search entire site for: '1999'.

No exact or substring matches. trying for part
PICList Thread
'PICLIST Digest - 12 Jan 1999 to 13 Jan 1999'
1999\01\14@083006 by miked

flavicon
face
> LCD displays 10 char by 10 lines ("Larry G. Nelson Sr." , Wed 10:41)
>
> Does anyone know of any LCD displays that would be sunlight readable having
> 10 characters by 10 lines. I am attempting to avoid having to buy custom
> glass and roll my own drivers for a project I am working on for a client.
>
> Thanks for any assistance
>
> Larry
Get a graphics display and define your own characters.

'PICLIST Digest - 13 Jan 1999 to 14 Jan 1999'
1999\01\15@083741 by miked

flavicon
face
> ilt sensor (Michel Tremblay , Thu 12:21)
>
> Do you guys know about a tilt sensor I could use in my project ??? I am lookin
g for a device that would either return a bynary
> or analog value proportionnal to it's tilt level.
>
> I looked in Digi-Key, Marshall and NuHorizon web site without success.
> Could I use a fluxgate device like the Vector 2 Compass module in the vertical
axis if I use the raw magnetometer output???
>
> Thanks in advance

Look for the Analog Devices ADXL202. They also have some sample PIC code
for it(16C6x)
and even an evaluation board with a PIC running it. Also check Crossbow
who are using their chips in their modules.

1999\01\16@071639 by Michel Van den Bergh

flavicon
face
Hi,

Well, I have been reading the gcc manual (the one that comes with the
source) and I have been studying Otto
Lind's port of gcc to the 68HC11. As far as I can see there is nothing
that would make porting gcc to the PIC 16F84 impossible or unfeasible.

Sure the Pic has no builtin stack, so you have to simulate one in RAM. But
gcc's optimization seems to be so good that most stack invokations are
eliminated anyway.

Furthermore the Pic has only one register, so you have to work with
virtual registers (as is the case for the 68HC11 port). This has the
potential of generating unnecessary store's and load's, but again gcc
seems to optimize these away. In fact the optimization power of gcc seems to
be truly awesome!

The fact that the Pic is 8bit, does not make it impossible to work with
16bit (or higher) variables. Gcc will store these in consecutive
(virtual)registers or stack locations.

One thing I was worried about was the implementation of the "const"
directive (this should be implemented through a lookup
table). However  gcc will place constant array's in
code space (see the 68HC11 port), with the correct directive to make
them lookup tables.

As far as needing a new linker, I don't see why. The compiler would
generate MPASM files, which can be linked with Microchip's MPLINK and
MPLIB. I think there is enough code around to make a good standard 16
bit library.

To port gcc one would only need to write three files:


picxxxx.md : The machine description: describes the types of
instructions availabe. This is a kind of rule based expert system.

picxxxx.h : Macro definitions describing the stack outline, register
usage, memory addressing schemes, function prologue and epilogue,
passing of arguments in registers, etc...


picxxxx.c : Support for picxxxx.h (some things are a little to
complicated to be implemented as macros). Also, when using makefiles,
it is better to have a .c file than a .h file. The latter tends to trigger
recompilation of everything.

If I find the time then I plan to try write some of these. I wouldn't
follow the 68HC11 port too closely, since I think Otto Lindt might have missed s
ome
potential optimizations (like the possibility of eliminating entirely a stack
frame for a function, which will happen quite often I think).

If other people are interested please email me (people from gnupic?). But please
read the
manual (Richard Stallmann's "Using and porting gcc") and study the 68HC11 port f
irst (a
search with altavista for the words 68hc11 and gcc will turn up the latter).


Regards,
Michel

1999\01\16@172222 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Well, I have been reading the gcc manual (the one that comes with the
   source) and I have been studying Otto
   Lind's port of gcc to the 68HC11. As far as I can see there is nothing
   that would make porting gcc to the PIC 16F84 impossible or unfeasible.

Sure, but there is little point.  The majority of the WORK involved will
be simulating a gcc-compatible archiecture, meaning that about all you'd
be able to use from gcc is the top-level parser.  A top-level parser for
C isn't hard, and you'd have a quicker time starting from something like
pcc with a less "big" idea of how the processor works.  Most of the value
of gcc is in the code generation and in the generality of the intermediate
machine model, and all of that would be worthless for a PIC C compiler.

BillW

1999\01\17@080005 by uter van ooijen / floortje hanneman

picon face
I think you will end up close to targeting gcc to a 32-bit
architecture and interpreting that architecture on the PIC.
But of course I am prejudiced because I choose a different
route. I'd be interested in your experiences!
(I once stared targeting gcc to some weird space-grade
processor but I had to give up because there wasn't even a
good assembler or CPU decription available.)

Keep a few things in mind when you target PICs:
- the 8 (or even 2) level stack is a real trouble,
 so consider to
    - check the amount of stack needed at compiler time
    - replace tail calls with jumps
    - inline at least the single-called routines
    - provide some alternative (store a return indication
      and use a goto insetad of a call)
- accessing all data via some index register is
 slow and uses lots of code; a static-stack
 requires more work from the compiler (and
 cannot cope with recusion) but is otherwise
 much better

regards,
Wouter
----------
{Quote hidden}

But
> gcc's optimization seems to be so good that most stack invokations are
> eliminated anyway.
>
> Furthermore the Pic has only one register, so you have to work with
> virtual registers (as is the case for the 68HC11 port). This has the
> potential of generating unnecessary store's and load's, but again gcc
> seems to optimize these away. In fact the optimization power of gcc seems
to
{Quote hidden}

trigger
> recompilation of everything.
>
> If I find the time then I plan to try write some of these. I wouldn't
> follow the 68HC11 port too closely, since I think Otto Lindt might have
missed some
> potential optimizations (like the possibility of eliminating entirely a
stack
> frame for a function, which will happen quite often I think).
>
> If other people are interested please email me (people from gnupic?). But
please read the
> manual (Richard Stallmann's "Using and porting gcc") and study the 68HC11
port first (a
> search with altavista for the words 68hc11 and gcc will turn up the
latter).
>
>
> Regards,
> Michel

'PICLIST Digest - 19 Jan 1999 to 20 Jan 1999'
1999\01\21@091429 by miked

flavicon
face
> In a message dated 1/20/99 4:08:09 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
> paulbspamKILLspammidcoast.com.au writes:
>
> <<
> Your reference to "whole top line" suggests to me 1} you have a two-
> line display, 2} you are only initialising it for 1-line display and
> 2} you have the contrast control set wrong.  You *DO* have a contrast
> control fitted, don't you?
>
>
> Yes there is contrast control, but when I had the display set up for 1 line it
> was very dark required min contrast setting to read. In 2 line mode it looks
> fine.
>
When you program the HD44780 chip for 2 line mode it changes the duty
cycle of the LCD. It has less contrast in 2 line mode for the same
control setting..
On the 16 character displays, controlling the second 8 characters is
different depending on whether you have a HD4100 expander chip or not on
the display.
--
Mike DeMetz
N9GEZ
Elkhart, IN

'PICLIST Digest - 22 Jan 1999'
1999\01\26@090629 by BTY

flavicon
face
Hello,
I'm new to the PIC, and am on a fast-track (or crash course) trying to learn
both the 16, and 17 core. I have a project that's just aching to be
implemented using an RTOS. I have an example of one using a Motorola 05
core, and the one example using a non-interrupt design on a PIC16 core, but
see nothing else so far. I would be grateful if anyone can point me in the
right direction.

I'm still trying to get used to the instruction set, but this processor
looks to be More flexible and fun that others I've used.

Harold Foster    /     .....hfosterKILLspamspam.....tyler.net

'PICLIST Digest - 26 Jan 1999 to 27 Jan 1999'
1999\01\28@094054 by miked

flavicon
face
> Has anyone done any PIC work where they monitored a persons heartrate?  In
> particular, I'm interested in being pointed in the right direction for
> finding a good sensor or a good method of detecting a persons heartrate.
> Also, some special tricks and/or lessons learned would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance,
Check Don Lancaster's column in the 1/99 issue of Nuts&Volts
--
Mike DeMetz
N9GEZ
Elkhart, IN


'PICLIST Digest - 6 Feb 1999 to 7 Feb 1999'
1999\02\08@102105 by miked
flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

I know of no modern (10 years or newer) servo that does not work
correctly with the standard 1.0-2.0mS (1.5mS center) PWM. Some may
travel beyond these limits and the minimum time between pulses(frame
rate) may vary from brand to brand.
Not sure why resistor is needed(most uP circuits I've seen use a couple
of hundred ohms) since many r/c receivers use direct output from CMOS.
But it can't hurt.

--
Mike DeMetz
N9GEZ
Elkhart, IN

1999\02\08@120535 by dave vanhorn

flavicon
face
>> I've blown a couple AVR8515's that way, I don't know why exactly.
>> A series 4.7k resistor seems to solve the problem.
>> The timing is trickier than it looks. Some brands use 1-2mS others use
>> 400uS-2mS
>> There may be more variants, but that's what I've seen in servos I've bought
>> in the last 8 months.
>> It's a brand thing.
>>
>> I've got AVR routines at http://www.dontronics.com in the download dungeon
>> "getting started" .
>>
>
>I know of no modern (10 years or newer) servo that does not work
>correctly with the standard 1.0-2.0mS (1.5mS center) PWM. Some may
>travel beyond these limits and the minimum time between pulses(frame
>rate) may vary from brand to brand.
> Not sure why resistor is needed(most uP circuits I've seen use a couple
>of hundred ohms) since many r/c receivers use direct output from CMOS.
>But it can't hurt.

I didn't try any other values, it could well be that 220/330 as others
suggested would be ok.
It's a balance point between driving the dervo input fast enough, and
protecting the micro from ESD and whatever popped mine. (that WASN'T ESD!)

One more point, be sure the servo dosen't glitch the micro's supply. In the
beginning, give it it's own battery to run from 4x AA cells would be fine.
This will keep you from having too much problems at the beginning. Servos
can draw a lot of current.

The oddball servo in question was a Cirrus high torque right off the peg at
the RC store down by castleton sq in indy, I doubt it had been there more
than a month or so.
(Dave in Muncie)

'PICLIST Digest - 7 Feb 1999 to 8 Feb 1999'
1999\02\09@082204 by Greg Holcomb

flavicon
face
There have been several discussions about needing different C compilers
for the 12C508 series (12 bit core) and the 16C84 series (14 bit core).
Some of you  may be overlooking the possibility of using the 8 pin
12C671.  That part costs a little more than the 12C508, but it uses the
same compiler as the 16C84 (16C6x and 16C7x too).

This way you can pay a little more for the processors, instead of paying
for the seperate compiler in one lump sum.

Gregg,

1999\02\09@090729 by miked

flavicon
face
> Andy Kunz wrote:
>
> > If you can find a copy of the NE544 data sheet, it's all in there.
>
>   Not on the web I suppose?  Certainly not NatSemi, SGS or T-I.  I
> gather it's a bit old!
> --
>   Cheers,
>         Paul B.
>
It was made by Signetics. The NE5044/5045 7 channel encoder/decoder and
the NE544 servo driver ic were used in almost all r/c systems from the
late '70s to early '90s.

'PICLIST Digest - 8 Feb 1999 to 9 Feb 1999'
1999\02\10@090944 by miked

flavicon
face
> Hi everyone
>
> I need some help with a circuit that will read an RTD and provides a 0-3volt
> output to an a/d converter. The measurement resistance of the RTD is 100ohm at
> 0 deg C. and very linear to 217ohms at 315 deg. C. I am using a 10 bit a/d and
> was going to use a 3volt reference for higher resolution.
>
> Can anyone recommend a circuit for this? I'm not that good at hardware ,but
> learning as I go.
>
I think the RTD board we made for our indicator used a constant current
source through the RTD. We also ran a 3rd wire to the sensor to
compensate for wire resistance. You may not need this for short runs.
--
Mike DeMetz
N9GEZ
Elkhart, IN

'PICLIST Digest - 24 Feb 1999 to 25 Feb 1999'
1999\02\26@082511 by miked

flavicon
face
> Sombody knows who also produces ee-pot4s ?
>
Xicor,Dallas


'RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999'
1999\04\05@121951 by John Payson
flavicon
face
My beloved wife died suddenly last Monday of natural causes.  Although
we were not even married six months, the two of us shared a lifetime of
happiness and we are without a doubt the best thing that ever happened
to each other.

Although my wife has died, she has also risen; her comfortine presence
will guide me through this new chapter of my life.  I hope that I can
honor her memory.

 Dawn Elizabeth Payson
 Born: May 16, 1971
 Found true love: February 5, 1998
 Engaged: June 5, 1998
 Married: October 11, 1998
 Died: March 29, 1999

May the road rise to meet you;
may the wind be always at your back.
The sun shines warm upon your face;
the rains fall soft upon your fields.
Until we meet again
 may God hold you in the palm of His Hands.
May the LORD bless you and keep you.
May the LORD make his face to shine upon you
 and give you piece.

1999\04\05@123612 by hmiller

picon face
John Payson wrote:
>
> My beloved wife died suddenly last Monday of natural causes....
============================

John, that was beautiful, and a tribute to both you and your wife. My
condolences.

Harley

1999\04\05@143130 by MIADsgns

picon face
My condolences.

Mario

1999\04\05@165938 by Eric Oliver

flavicon
face
John,

When I was young, my selfishness was only surpassed by my urgency.  Of
late, I find myself fascinated by the human experience.  I find I can no
longer tell where I end and my loved ones begin. I want you to know that my
thoughts are with you this day.

Eric

{Original Message removed}

1999\04\06@002442 by Kevin Fisk

flavicon
face
John,

Although we have not met I count many of the people on this list as my
friends. Please accept my family's humblest condolences and know that our
thoughts are with you.

Kevin

{Quote hidden}

'[OT] Re: RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999'
1999\04\06@033954 by Pasi T Mustalahti

picon face
PTM: Are you damned idiot serious !!?!
This posting of yours was the single most idiotic thing you could do to
memorize your wife.

And just when I found there is about 358 emeils in my postbox containing
just carbage.




On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, John Payson wrote:

{Quote hidden}

----------------------------------------------------------------------
PTM, EraseMEpasi.mustalahtispam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTutu.fi, ptmustaspamspam_OUTutu.fi, http://www.utu.fi/~ptmusta
Lab.ins. (mikrotuki) ATK-keskus/Mat.Luon.Tdk                    OH1HEK
Lab.engineer (PC support) Computer Center                       OI7234
Mail: Turun Yliopisto / Fysla, Vesilinnantie 5, 20014
Pt 02-3336669, FAX 02-3335632 (Pk 02-2387010, NMT 049-555577)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

1999\04\06@050139 by oyvind.k

flavicon
face
> PTM: Are you damned idiot serious !!?!
> This posting of yours was the single most idiotic thing you could do to
> memorize your wife.
>
> And just when I found there is about 358 emeils in my postbox containing
> just carbage.

Ok, I'm sorry to contribute to the N-part of the S/N ratio, but this
is waaay too darned rude, mr Mustalahti.

You simply CANNOT call another person an idiot on these grounds.
Who are you to decide whether this is an idiotic way of memorizing a
loved one?

Am I entitled to call you an idiot in public just because you typed
the word "garbage" wrong?

May I suggest you actually meant "cabbage", and also that you were
referring to the round thingy on top of your neck?

Would that be appropriate in your opinion?

Whatever we do on this list, at least we should be able to be polite,
OT or not.


_______________________________________________
¯yvind Kaurstad, @spam@oyvind.kKILLspamspamsafetel.no

Safetel AS, P.B. 405
N-4067 Stavanger, Norway
Tel: +47 51 81 78 80, Fax: +47 51 81 78 93

1999\04\06@050558 by g.daniel.invent.design

flavicon
face
Pasi,
There is a difference between sympathy for human tragedy and bigoted
ignorance.

You have given example of the latter with your very offensive reply to
John Payson in his time of grieving, this is not the way to obtain
suporters for your own religion. I am Athiest, but I still feel sorry
for John, that he expressed his grieving in a way that we did not
understand is no reason for you to compound his misery.

A very good analogy for what you have done is: "kicking a man when he is
down."

Graham Daniel.

Pasi T Mustalahti wrote:
>
> PTM: Are you damned idiot serious !!?!
> This posting of yours was the single most idiotic thing you could do to
> memorize your wife.
>
> And just when I found there is about 358 emeils in my postbox containing
> just carbage.
Graham Daniel, managing director of Electronic Product Enhancements.
Phone NZ 04 387 4347, Fax NZ 04 3874348, Cellular NZ 021 954 196.

'RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999'
1999\04\06@062639 by Tom Handley

picon face
  John, human language fails us at times like this. I don't belong to any
particular religion but I believe in God and I have absolutely no doubt that
he has wonderful things in store for us when we take leave of this planet. I
think this is kind of like kindergarten and your wife has moved on to first
grade. You two will be together again and will enjoy each other's company in
loving service to God, and all his creation, throughout Eternity.

  I'm reminded of an old song about footprints in the sand. As this man
goes through life, he could always see his footprints and another's that he
knew to be God's. One day great tragedy befell him and he could only see one
set of footprints. He cried out "God, why have you abandoned me in my hour
of need?". God replied "You are one of my children and I love you. I would
never abandon you. Those times when you saw only one set of footprints were
the times that I was carrying you".

  May God carry you through these difficult times.

  - Tom

At 10:35 AM 4/5/99 -0500, John Payson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\04\06@092502 by Walter Banks

picon face
John,

Remember the good times.

My sincerest condolences.

Walter Banks

'[OT] Re: RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999'
1999\04\06@094010 by Brian Aase

flavicon
face
Date sent:              Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:39:44 +0300
Send reply to:          pic microcontroller discussion list <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.
EDU>
From:                   Pasi T Mustalahti <RemoveMEptmustaTakeThisOuTspamUTU.FI>
Subject:                [OT] Re: RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999
OT or not, the following message is the most flagrant expression of
inhumanity and misantrhopic mind-set that I have ever seen!
This "individual" should be banned permanently from this list.

{Quote hidden}

1999\04\06@094325 by Eaejrphd

picon face
John Payson,

My wife and I convey our sorrow at the loss of the one you loved so much.
Although this is off topic there are a lot of us out on the PIC list that
grieve for your loss of a loved one.  If there is anything we can do for you
don't hesitate to E-mail either of us.

We, my whole family, shall keep you in our prayers and pray for Elizabeth.

With our deepest sorrow,
Dr. Ed & Ann Edmondson

E-mail: RemoveMEeaejrphdspamTakeThisOuTaol.com
E-mail: dramceEraseMEspam.....aol.com (Wife)

1999\04\06@100053 by Eaejrphd

picon face
I second the motion by my esteemed colleague! All in favor say "AYE."

Dr. Ed Edmondson

1999\04\06@100308 by Dmitry Kiryashov

flavicon
face
Pasi T Mustalahti wrote:
>
> PTM: Are you damned idiot serious !!?!
> This posting of yours was the single most idiotic
> thing you could do to memorize your wife.
>
> And just when I found there is about 358 emeils
> in my postbox containing just carbage.

Shut up your fricking mouth please you stupid...
This is the first message you post to Piclist so
keep your mind inside of yourself...

Dmitry.

1999\04\06@101331 by Ryan Pogge

flavicon
face
what the hell is wrong with you that you can say something
like that.
I hope you get kicked of this mailing list forever you dumb
bastard.



> PTM: Are you damned idiot serious !!?!
> This posting of yours was the single most idiotic thing
you could do to
> memorize your wife.
>
> And just when I found there is about 358 emeils in my
postbox containing
> just carbage.
>
>
>
>

'RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999'
1999\04\06@111037 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 10:35 5/04/99 -0500, you wrote:

John,

I was genuinely saddened to hear of your great lost. You have supported
piclisters for years now, I hope in this sad occasion you can feel supported
by us piclisters in return.

May you rest in the arms of your faith and Dawn's love forever.

Jim







{Quote hidden}

________________________________________
Email: EraseMEnewfoundspampipeline.com.au
http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound
WARP-3 SALE now on. $48USD with world delivery.
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers and firmware
upgrades for many programmers.
________________________________________

'[OT] Re: RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999'
1999\04\06@112545 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>OT or not, the following message is the most flagrant expression of
>inhumanity and misantrhopic mind-set that I have ever seen!
>This "individual" should be banned permanently from this list.

Pashi unsubscribed himself this morning.

Andy

'RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999'
1999\04\06@114411 by Brian Kassel

flavicon
face
John:

 May I say that I also lost my wife 12 years ago at age 33.  She was a
cancer patient and lived for 3 years after diagnosis, fully 2 of those
years in the hospital. Almost 1 million dollars were spent in a effort
to cure her.  Not a day goes by that I don't miss her.  The hurt was
overwhelming at first, but gradually faded away.  I know that will be
true in your case as well. My most sincere condolences.

 I have since re-married, am very, very happy and have tried to grow
from the experience. Incidentally, my second wife had her husband die of
cancer as well at age 31.  It happens. May your hurt diminish as your
life goes on, trust me, it *WILL* get better my friend.

Brian Kassel W5VBO
Near Phoenix AZ.

'[OT] Re: RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999'
1999\04\06@160651 by DREITEK

picon face
In a message dated 4/6/99 8:26:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, RemoveMEmtdesignEraseMEspamEraseMEFAST.NET
writes:

<< >This "individual" should be banned permanently from this list.

Pashi unsubscribed himself this morning.

Andy

 >>
Hi Andy,
Are you like me: longing for the days when we only argued about cow tipping?

Dave Duley

'RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999'
1999\04\06@172911 by John Payson

flavicon
face
|OT or not, the following message is the most flagrant expression of
|inhumanity and misantrhopic mind-set that I have ever seen!
|This "individual" should be banned permanently from this list.

|> PTM: Are you damned idiot serious !!?!
|> This posting of yours was the single most idiotic thing you could do to
|> memorize your wife.

I for one was wondering how long it would be before someone
accused me of being off-topic for that posting.  My wife,
with her quirky sense of humor, would probably have been
pondering the same thing.

Perhaps I should have mentioned that my wife found my work
fascinating and had asked me to teach her electronics and
programming.  Then my message would have been more clearly
PIC-related, as it would have related the loss of a poten-
tial PIC programming genious.

I do thank all those who took the time to write and express
their condolences.  My posting on the PIC list was not an
effort to memorialize my wife (I'm hoping to do so in other
ways), but given the number of 'friends' here, I thought it
appropriate to at least let people know about it.

The replies by people who posted to the list (rather than
e-mailing me directly) were off-topic, and given the cir-
cumstances direct e-mail would have been more appropriate,
but the reply-to-list vs reply-to-sender mistake is an easy
one to make and I'm not going to begrude that of anyone.

As for myself, I'm getting back to work though it's a bit
hard when I've got 20 million thoughts of other stuff going
through my mind (e.g. possible techniques of casting a bronze
grave marker since the ones with fastened-on lettering don't
seem as lasting, how to organize a memorial web site, etc.)
Grief is for me not too much of a problem, since this is just
the start of a new chapter in my life.  I liked the previous
one *MUCH* better, but

 I don't curse what I can't change;
   I just play the hand I'm dealt.
 When they lighten up the rations,
   I tighten up my belt.
 I won't say I've never felt the pain,
 but I am not a stranger to the rain.

       - from _Children_of_Eden_ by Stephen Schwartz

1999\04\06@174400 by Russell McMahon

picon face
Brian,

I think we can leave this man be - several people have sent him mail
privately I believe.
No doubt some of these were themselves less than polite.
(Judging from some of the stuff I received lately in response to a
recent posting, there are people here ready to be stroppy when
required :-)).

I sent him a brief message worded as politely as I could manage and
he replied

> PTM: I have here some more people who have lost their wifes,
husband and children.
> I have unsigned out of this list.

Which indicates that he has removed himself.
I suggest we let the matter drop.

Hard to say what was in his mind but he may have been triggered by
factors which are foreign to many of us on the list - Part of his
response was probably due to the extra amount of OT PIC mail of an
(apparently) religious nature which he found in his box due to my
Easter missive. On top of this it may be that he saw Dawn's memorial
notice as promoting religious beliefs that he was uncomfortable with.

Just skimmed my archive - he appears to have been active on PICLIST
since about February and has made a few good useful contributions.
Don't know where he is from. Turkey? - address is beyond my
translational ability.


regards

       Russell McMahon

From: Brian Aase <RemoveMEulcsaspam_OUTspamKILLspamESKIMO.COM>
OT or not, the following message is the most flagrant expression of
inhumanity and misantrhopic mind-set that I have ever seen!
This "individual" should be banned permanently from this list.

1999\04\06@181401 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>Don't know where he is from. Turkey? - address is beyond my
>translational ability.

.fi = Finland?

Andy

1999\04\06@181957 by DAZLOGAN

picon face
What - The - Bloody - Hell is all this about ?

Get a grip people.

1999\04\06@200905 by Tom Handley

picon face
At 04:29 PM 4/6/99 -0500, John Payson wrote:
[snip]
>I for one was wondering how long it would be before someone
>accused me of being off-topic for that posting.  My wife,
>with her quirky sense of humor, would probably have been
>pondering the same thing.
[snip]

  John, you certainly don't need to respond to such trash. You have
been a valuable member of this group for several years. Most of the
[OT} complaints I've seen are from new members that have no idea how
valuable this list is. For those of us who have been here for several
years, it's like a family. Though many of us have not met, it still
seems like we are old friends. Your desire and courage to share with
us the loss of your wife demonstrates this and, as you have noted, you
have many friends here.

  I'm getting real fed up with the [OT] complaints. If one designs an
embedded controller, then you will deal with a variety of issues. This
will lead to topics ranging from soil acidity to thermal stress of SOIC
packages to Solar compost heaps to thermocouple cold-junction compensation
to an auto grain feeder for horses that needs to count the gains in bright
sunlight and it is all related to the scope of this group. Then there is
the fact that we are humans... If we go off topic for humor or other
reasons, that should be allowed to run it's course. All of us have a DEL
key and most mail programs allow you to sort topics by subject.

  And to Jory and Mark, be slow to remove folks from this list. Those
that get extreme will probably fade due to lack of response. Back in the
80's I started one of the first and largest Amiga BBS with several
hundered callers from around the planet (Northwest Amiga Group - NAG).
Then I went on to McGraw-Hill's Byte Information Exchange (BIX) as a
paid moderator with folks from around the planet. I moderated vendor and
closed developer discussions. I recommend that you give folks a long
rope before you `yank' them... In many cases, they will realize their
errors and will join the community as productive citizens. If not, well
you got the rope...

  - Tom

1999\04\06@200911 by andrew abken

picon face
John Payson,

  I am sorry for your loss my friend. I am engaged to
be married in may, and I dont know what I would do if
I lost her.

 Hey, dont listen to the cabbage head either:)


I will keep you both in my prayers.

deepest sympathy,
 andrew



-
{Quote hidden}

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

1999\04\07@023051 by MEDICINTEKNIK KB

picon face
That's Finland. And a typical finish name.


Sven in Sweden
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
FrŒn: Andy Kunz <RemoveMEmtdesignTakeThisOuTspamspamFAST.NET>
Till: EraseMEPICLISTspamspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Datum: den 7 april 1999 00:14
€mne: Re: [OT] RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999


>>Don't know where he is from. Turkey? - address is beyond my
>>translational ability.
>
>.fi = Finland?
>
>Andy
>

1999\04\07@120123 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face
All the human beings on the list are with you.
What can one say at a time like this?
Cherish your memories of her, that's all we ever really have in the
end.

1999\04\07@131939 by Ray Gardiner

flavicon
face
My sincere condolences John, in times of great stress you
need all the moral and emotional support you can get.
I think the thoughts all of those on this list are with
you.

The brilliant code examples you selflessly shared
with all of us have earned respect and admiration
over the years. I hope that we can provide you with
a little bit of moral support to help in return.

Take care,
Ray Gardiner raySTOPspamspamspam_OUThdc.com.au

1999\04\07@214718 by Myke Predko

flavicon
face
My family and I wish to give our condolences as well John.  Your loss is a
terrible thing that nobody should have to endure.

Our best wishes for you,

myke

'PICLIST Digest - 7 Apr 1999 to 8 Apr 1999'
1999\04\09@085018 by Kelly Schauf

flavicon
face
To Ryan regarding the C84 vs F84 fuse issue.

Look to see if you can use the __CONFIG command in the datasheet and then
consult the PIC16F84.INC header to find out what your various config
options are.

Hope this helps.


K. Schauf


'TRUNCATED PICLIST Digest - 2 May 1999 to 3 May 199'
1999\05\04@080535 by mjurras
picon face
Can someone explain why the Digest is sometimes truncated? I got the topics list
and part of the
first message up to the line shown. Where can I get a full copy of todays digest
? This is worse
than being out of coffee in the morning.

- -Mark

--- Automatic digest processor <spamBeGoneLISTSERVSTOPspamspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

- -snip- -

> The following is from the CallerID FAQ:

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

'PICLIST Digest - 13 May 1999 to 14 May 1999'
1999\05\15@010959 by Sam Laur

flavicon
face
> Date:    Sat, 15 May 1999 04:49:48 +0200
> From:    Leo TImmer <KILLspamsalsaterspamBeGonespamDDS.NL>
> Subject: Re: [OT] Which EEPROM with 12C509?
>
> there is such a big market. My only problem at this time is that i don't
> know anything about the chip. I bought a 1MB/15 blocks (i suppose that they
> are 16 blocks, but use one for the directory). This card has a 64plcc chip
> from Sony type is: CXD8732Q or maybe 5D61 8BML. Looked on the sony site but
> couldn't find it, not even at the obsolete parts list. The size of the pcb

Couldn't find any direct info on the chip itself, but I found some specs
for the interface, after a short search on Altavista :

http://stekt.oulu.fi/~flame/hware/ps-e.txt

Of course unofficial, would Sony ever release that information? :)
Anyway the transactions seem a bit complicated, but I think it could fit on
a PIC anyway. It would appear that one "block" is 8 kilobytes, so that "1 MB"
is actually 1 Mb, i.e. one mega-bit, not byte. But still 128 kB would be nice.
Although, I think that it could very well be easier to take a normal Flash
memory chip and kludge that onto a larger PIC like 16F84, with all the
addressing etc. As a bonus, it will be larger :)

'PICLIST Digest - 27 May 1999 to 28 May 1999'
1999\05\29@172126 by Charlie Mellone

flavicon
face
Anders,

Although not exactly what you wanted (it's hard to find links to
PIC-based lawnmower control), I happen to have a few links for PIC-based
model airplane speed controls. Their focus is on speed control rather
than position. Covers issues like electronic braking as well, which you
may need else "dead dog rover". The last one is a 16F84 design.

PIC 16C73       professionals.com/~cmcmanis/robotics/servo.html
PIC12C509N   http://home.HiWAAY.net/~mjn/
PIC16F84        http://members.magnet.at/users/avg/motor_controller.html

Charlie

>  Subject: DC Motor Control
>    Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:33:03 +0200
>    From:  Anders Wallberg
>
> Hello, I am relatively new to PICs and need some directions.
> Trying to do DC motor control with PIC16F84
> I have 2 DC motors with tacho (0 - 50 Hz) ( driving 1 wheel each of a robotic
application
> (lawnmower!)) that I want to control. The main focus is  position but a big sp
eed error can cause
> big position errors in the end!
> The load can differ a lot between motors so some speed control is needed.
>
> if possible some ramp-up and ramp-down and synchronization between motors is a
wish.
>
> Its OK to split functions up on different PICs
> We want to give "commands" on serial to the motorcontrol (i.e., go 5000 tacho
pulses fwd)
>
> we use L6203 fullbridge drivers and PWM , so far.
>
> We want Preferable to use the PIC Basic Pro compiler.
>
> PLS. help with hints and URL to projects like this.
>
> ( We been checking out the motormind B from Parallax and we don't think that i
s enough, maybe with a
> PIC "front end" handling sync and ramp-up/down)
>


'Micro Air Vehicles - Aviation Week - July 12, 1999'
1999\07\17@094600 by Myke Predko
flavicon
face
Hi Folks,

About a year - year and a half ago there was some interest in "Micro Air
Vehicles" with articles in Popular Science and Aviation Week.

I just wanted to point out that this week's (July 12's) issue has an update
on these little aircraft along with information on flying ones working under
remote control.

It also has a an article on a Turbo jet that has been built on a silicon
chip (4 mm in diameter).

The web page is:

http://www.aviationweek.com/

myke


'[OT] Wes Graham 1932-1999'
1999\08\27@172212 by Walter Banks
picon face
Many regulars on the PIClist who are my vintage will
recognize WATfor and WATfiv quick turnaround
educational compilers. The visionary behind their
development, Wes Graham passed away on Monday.
Wes also played a major role in establishing WATcom
for the promotion of educational software.

Wes Graham tirelessly promoted excellence, he brought
a critical  mass of software expertise to the Kitchener Waterloo
area. Wes made computing available to students when computers
were locked away in secure rooms. The 70 or so software
companies in this area collectively owe him for his vision
and dedication to computing.

I for one will miss his wisdom, friendship and guidance.

Rest in peace Wes.


Walter Banks

'[PICList] Mini-FAQ, Revised Aug. 28, 1999 (Pre-Dra'
1999\08\29@133332 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Well, found a copy of this, before mods & so forth.

It needs some serious work!  This is a PRE-Draft, not the real thing <G>

BTW, folks:  I will be changing my e-mail address by the 31st, to
<EraseMEmwillisspamEraseMEfoxinternet.net>.  I'm moving 30 miles SE of here, and NWLink
doesn't have a local modem line in Enumclaw.  Should be a nice, serene
place to live.  That new account's active now, BUT, I'm not downloading
e-mail from that account (quite yet.)  I probably will create a second
e-mail address to subscribe to the list from, and use that address for
Admin purposes.

Here's the draft, somewhat edited:

---  Begin  ---
   HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE

There one ways that works to get off the list.  DO NOT post to the
list.  This might get you off, but is the worst way to do it; A post to
the list goes to all subscribers, is VERY slow and gets everyone angry
with you.  If Jory & Mark miss seeing it (and they may not read all
of every post, and may occasionally take a day off), you don't get off
the list.

The best, fastest way is to post to:

@spam@LISTSERV@spam@spamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU (i.e. spamBeGoneLISTSERVspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU)

from the address at which you are subscribed containing nothing but

unsubscribe PICList

in the first line of the message, from the address at which you are
subscribed.  This is automatically executed and is the fastest method.
The message must contain the exact words "unsubscribe PICList", no
other spelling works.  You'll get a confirmation e-mail, with directions
on how to confirm (Basically: just reply with the word "ok" in the
body), and you'll be off the list.

 If you are trying to unsubscribe from an address different from the
one you subscribed from, probably best to send an e-mail to
<.....PICList-Requestspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> (E-Mail to that address is copied to
all of the list admins), and clearly ask to have your OLD address
unsubscribed.  I cc my response to your old & new addresses (As a
courtesy), and if I'm not here Jory can catch you, this way.

 If you have difficulties, or do not understand what to do, send an
e-mail message to <TakeThisOuTPICList-Request.....spamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>, and one of us will
try to help you.  Do tell us you want help with the PICList as we both
are on / run more than one list!

   PURPOSE and ETIQUETTE

 This list is for the specific purpose of providing a forum about the
use, learning about, safety with, and enjoyment of MicroChip PICs. Other
support "Glue" chips are acceptable off-topic subjects, to some extent.

 Commercial posts, flaming, spamming, virus warnings, etc. do not
belong in this mailing list, and posting same could result in our
removing you from the list.  Humor happens here, and is welcome so long
as it doesn't result in bodily harm from too many list readers falling
out of their chairs, and so long as it's kept in reasonable bounds.
Humor isn't the purpose of the list, but the good laugh provided
(relevant to PICs especially) is very welcome on occasion!  (At the same
time, too much of a good thing, is too much.)

 Posting messages to the list is restricted to subscribers, who are
defined as anyone posting with a logon name and address identical to one
in the list of subscribers.  You cannot post to the list either from a
different address or if you are unsubscribed.

 [For more information about this mailing list, post to:

TakeThisOuTLISTSERVKILLspamspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU (i.e. .....LISTSERVspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU)

with the text

info PICLIST

in the first line of your message.  Also read
http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/piclist.html, Tjaart's handy web page.
Also, see the Archives at http://www.iversoft.com/piclist.]

 This Mini-FAQ is posted by Mark Willis monthly (early in the month),
to help Jory out.  Suggested updates or changes, Post to:

<RemoveMEPICList-RequestspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU>

 Mark will post this with this EXACT same title [unless revised, then
the revision date will change] to help keep the list uncluttered with
"unsubscribe" requests, and will e-mail it to anyone on request.

---  End  ---

 Mark, spamBeGonemwillis@spam@spamspam_OUTnwlink.com
 Changing to <TakeThisOuTmwillisspamspamFoxInternet.Net> in just a few days!


'July 1999 technical library CD-ROM'
1999\09\02@023059 by ruben
flavicon
face
Hello,

I have just received the July 1999 Technical Library CD-ROM from
Microchip as a result from filling in a form about the PIC 18CXXX
chip on their web site. The CD looks just like their web site and is
browsed with a standard web browser. The CD also contains Internet
Explorer V5.0 which I installed. In the top right corner in the
browser window is an animated icon, the spinning globe. Microchip
has changed 1 frame of this animation to thier 'M' logo, the frame
that is displayed when the animation is off. When the animation is
on the 'M' logo is flashed once per animation loop.

Call me silly, but this realy irritates me. Is there any way that
I can restore this to the original animation without downloading an
original copy of explorer 5.0?

TIA


==============================
Ruben Jvnsson
AB Liros Elektronik
Box 9124, 200 39 Malmv, Sweden
TEL INT +4640142078
FAX INT +4640947388
rubenEraseMEspam2.sbbs.se
==============================

1999\09\02@054536 by Jonathan ferguson

flavicon
face
This is how you change the spinning logo in IE5..There is a reg entry at

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Toolbar]
"BrandBitmap"="<path>"
"SmBrandBitmap"="<path>"

so just change the path to the bitmap

Regards

Jonathan Ferguson
------------------------------------------------------
Research Student
Microelectronics/Radiation Group
University of  Lancaster
Lancaster
Bailrigg
Lancs LA1 4YR
Tel : (01524) 593326
Fax :(01524) 381707
RemoveMEj.fergusonEraseMEspamspam_OUTlancaster.ac.uk
ICQ 31455174


{Original Message removed}

'PICLIST Digest - 2 Sep 1999 to 3 Sep 1999'
1999\09\04@085800 by Martin Nilsson

picon face
My apologies, but I just cannot resist the temptation to comment on
some of the messages about H-bridges on this list. (Especially since
it gives me an opportunity to take on so many of the experts at the
same time (:-) - Let's see if I survive it.) Also, perhaps I can reduce
some confusion on the issue.

First of all, I would like to compliment Terry and Sean for the nice
ideas and instructive examples! I agree with Terry that an SMPS
controller could make a very nice motor controller.  As Paul
indicated, motor driver are very close to SMPS, and in fact, many of
the key issues for SMPS design apply to motor driver design as well.
However, a motor driver has many more pathological noise/transient/etc
cases one needs to consider for a good design. (For a few years, I have
had as a kind of hobby collecting Good Methods of How to Destroy a
DC-Motor Driver, and my, that list is pretty long by now...)

I like Sean's example, because it is deceptive, but (or rather,
therefore) very instructional. Calculations appear correct, but
the conclusion is a bit odd. There is a tacit assumption in the
example, which seems not to have received any attention so far.

Sean Breheny wrote:
...
{Quote hidden}

...

That something is funny here is clear if we consider the following
case, the idea of which I think somebody touched upon in a response:
Suppose we drive the motor with just under 2 Volts steady.  Although
this consumes 4 W, it isn't enough to overcome the friction, and
efficiency is 0%. However, let's now use 12 V PWM to switch on the
current on for sufficiently long periods, so that the maximum current
through the rotor ramps up to just above 2 A, and so the motor just
barely overcomes the friction and moves a trifle. The average power
during the on cycle will obviously be less than 24 W. Let the
OFF-period be nine times as long as as the ON-period. Clearly, the
duty cycle is less than 10%, total power consumption less than 2.4 W,
but the PWM efficiency is still >0%, while linear voltage control
gives a solid 0% efficiency even at 4 W.

So, what is the problem?

Several writers have commented on the type of load. Although
frictional load contributes to the seemingly paradoxical result, I
woudn't say that it is the most important thing here.  An inertial
load would represent more of a worst case from the driver
designer's point of view (cf. below).

Instead, IMHO, the key word is "average". Sean wrote: "we need an
average current..." It is important to think of how the the current
behaves, or is supposed to behave, in the rotor winding. The current
wants to stay the same and goes to great lengths and voltages to do
just that. If we have a current which varies greatly, we are using too low
switching frequency. The current shouldn't be left in peace for too
long or it freaks out.

The analogy with SMPS is useful here. For maximum efficiency of an
SMPS, we want to keep the current through the energy store choke on a
constant level. Large excursions will increase resistive losses. The
voltage is generated by the ripple on top of this current.  It is the
same thing for a DC-motor. We want to keep a relatively constant
current through the rotor. ON periods push the current up a little
bit, OFF periods pull it down a little bit. If the current is allowed
to go to zero or saturate the core, the PWM frequency is too low, and
we will have such effects as Sean described. A key feature of PWM
is to let the motor inductance even out the pulse variations.

A small example. Escap's coreless DC-motor 23DT12-216P has the
following data: Nominal 9 V, Imax (cont) 1.76 A, Max temporary torque
80 mNm, Torque constant 12.4 mNm/A, Terminal resistance 2.6 ohm, Rotor
inductance 0.2 mH. We have u = L*di/dt, where u is the voltage over
the coil minus back emf (near zero at low speed) and resistive drop.
For a continuous current of 1.76 A, low speed, and a max ripple of
10%, we have that the maximum ON-period is roughly dt < di * L/u =
0.176 * 0.0002/(9 - 1.76*2.6) = (approx) 8 us.  For the OFF-period, u
equals the resistive voltage drop, so dt < 0.176 * 0.0002/4.4 =
(approx) 8 us. Together this means a switching frequency of at least
1000/(8+8) > 60 kHz.

Sean wrote:

> With a switcher,however,we could forget PWM and just supply a continuous
> variable voltage to the motor. The current would stay the same and the RPM
> would linearly follow the voltage. The efficiency would not change much
> over the whole RPM range.

Paul Webster wrote:

>   [Sean's] analysis regarding motor performance is correct.  Implementation
> of switchmode control as you describe essentially consists of using PWM
> whilst providing a series inductor and commutation diode.  The
> commutation diode(s) may already be part of an H-bridge or if the FETs
> may be operated "backwards", they may function as such.

I would say as a conclusion rather that with sufficient switching
frequency, PWM is only marginally worse than linear control from a
resistive losses aspect. (There are of course also switching losses,
and I haven't said it is _easy_ to implement such fast switching. Only
that high resistive losses are not an inherent PWM property :-)

For low speeds and such frictional load as Sean describes, PWM becomes
superior.  There is still a reason, however, for driving a DC-motor
with the output from an SMPS.  The coil on the SMPS is stationary and
can be bulky, without adverse effects. The DC-motor cannot afford such
a big and bulky rotor coil. A smaller choke has lower inductance and
would require higher switching frequency than the SMPS, if PWM driven.

John Payson wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Well, it is a power hog only if the PWM frequency is so low
that the winding current changes substantially during one PWM cycle.

John also wrote:

> very well.  Nonetheless, it may sometimes be useful to add a sinking
> transistor; this is to allow for rapid changes in motor speed.  If
> the motor has little mechanical loading, there will be no way for it
> to slow down quickly absent a sinking transistor.  If the "active
> high" output is equivalent to a car's gas pedal, the "active low"
> output is the brake.  Although braking should be minimized when it's
> not needed, it's hard to slow down or stop without it.

This is really very important, and I wonder why it is so rare to find
such a shunt included in published circuits! A not too exceptional
case is where the motor runs full speed one way, and the driver then
reverses to full speed the other direction.  The motor will then act
as a generator, and pull twice its stall current.

Bob Blick wrote:

> drop is more like 2 volts. If you think about how a DC motor works, you'll
> see that there is no way to operate a 12 volt motor with 12 volts and 5
> amps at high speed. If you had a motor like this, it would draw much more
> than 5 amps at low speed, and destroy the H-bridge. At low speeds, it

If you also consider rapidly reversing direction, the motor will draw
twice the stall current at full speed and full supply voltage. This
current will be sustained if there is large inertia on the rotor.

Scott Dattalo wrote:

>I am a bit confused here: why would the FETs require more precautions? The
>only thing I can think of would be that the power dissipation for a FET
>goes as the second power of current,and for a darlington/BJT, as the first
>power of current. Granted,this makes a big difference as current goes to
>infinity, but in certain cases, you might burn up the BJTs way before the
>FETs if the RDSon of the FETs is really low.

and Bob responded:

> It's actually even worse than that. The R of the MOSFET increases with
> temperature and current, so unless you go overkill or have protection you
> have a big problem. With comparable devices, the bipolar will usually take
> a lot more abuse(assuming it has enough drive current). Generally in a
> small application it's easy enough to use a larger MOSFET, but I've
> designed 1200 amp motor controllers and it makes sense to put in good
> protection so you can use fewer MOSFETs.

I guess Bob has had a lot of bad experiences with MOSFETs... One of
the primary obstacles with fast MOSFET switching is that it causes a
zillion of noise and transient problems. Due to the high speed, it can
be extremely difficult to debug a MOSFET switching circuit. MOSFETs
also sometimes have a peculiar property of going on working and
appearing alright for a while, although they are fatally wounded.
Otherwise, AFAIK, the two main problems with BJTs as compared to
MOSFETs are 1) Current concentration and thermal runaway, and 2)
Secondary breakdown. Some other problems are: Slow switching,
switching time temperature dependent, difficult to interpret SOA and
derate for various parameters, complex drive circuitry, and power
consumption of driver circuit itself.

Cheers,

Martin Nilsson                           http://www.sics.se/~mn/
Swedish Institute of Computer Science    E-mail: @spam@mnRemoveMEspamEraseMEsics.se (current)
Box 1263, SE-164 29 Kista, Sweden        EraseMEDr.Nilspam@spam@bigfoot.com (permanent)
Tel: +46-8-633-1574                      Fax: +46-8-751-7230

1999\09\06@055729 by gdaniel

flavicon
face
> John also wrote:
>
> > very well.  Nonetheless, it may sometimes be useful to add a sinking
> > transistor; this is to allow for rapid changes in motor speed.  If
> > the motor has little mechanical loading, there will be no way for it
> > to slow down quickly absent a sinking transistor.  If the "active
> > high" output is equivalent to a car's gas pedal, the "active low"
> > output is the brake.  Although braking should be minimized when it's
> > not needed, it's hard to slow down or stop without it.
>
Martin replied:
> This is really very important, and I wonder why it is so rare to find
> such a shunt included in published circuits! A not too exceptional
> case is where the motor runs full speed one way, and the driver then
> reverses to full speed the other direction.  The motor will then act
> as a generator, and pull twice its stall current.
>
A case in point:
Portable battery powered electric drills.

Ever considered using the motor windings as a crude speaker ?
If the PWM is heard as an audible whine then it may be possible to PWM
an abusive audio message through the windings in cases of user abuse.
Not as useful as a brake, definitely more amusing.

regards,
Graham Daniel.

'Message ("Your message dated Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:28'
1999\09\08@194250 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face
Who turned this on?


----- Original Message -----
From: L-Soft list server at MITVMA (1.8c) <@spam@LISTSERVspam_OUTspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: David VanHorn <spamBeGonedvanhornEraseMEspamCEDAR.NET>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 6:30 PM
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:28:16 -0500...")


> Your message  dated Wed, 8 Sep  1999 18:28:16 -0500 with  subject "Re:
Orcad
> part files for 16F877" has been successfully distributed to the PICLIST
list
> (1599 recipients).

1999\09\08@195250 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
At 06:40 PM 9/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Who turned this on?
>
[SNIP]
>list
>> (1599 recipients).
>

That's interesting, the list GAINED a subscriber since I got my message!

Sean


|
| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
| Electrical Engineering Student
\--------------=----------------
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
shb7spamBeGonespamcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174


'[PICList] Mini-FAQ, Revised Oct. 14, 1999 (Pre-Dra'
1999\10\15@061902 by Mark Willis
flavicon
face
Worked more on this, it's still at a place where:

It needs some serious work!  This is still a PRE-Draft, not the real
thing <G>

Here's the draft, somewhat edited, "It won't even compile yet" <G>:

---  Begin  ---
   HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE

There is one way that works to get off the list.  DO NOT post to the
list.  This might get you off, but is the worst way to do it; A post to
the list goes to all subscribers, is VERY slow and gets everyone angry
with you.  If Jory & Mark miss seeing it (and they may not read all
of every post, and may occasionally take a day off), you don't get off
the list.

The best, fastest way is to post to the PICList "Command Input Port":

RemoveMELISTSERV@spam@spamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU (i.e. .....LISTSERV@spam@spamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU)

from the address at which you are subscribed, containing nothing but

unsubscribe PICList

in the first line of the message.  This is automatically executed and is
the fastest method.  The message must contain the exact words
"unsubscribe PICList", no other spelling works.  You'll get a
confirmation e-mail, with directions on how to confirm (Basically: just
reply with the word "ok" in the body), and you'll be off the list.

 If you are trying to unsubscribe from an address different from the
one you subscribed from, probably best to send an e-mail to
.....PICList-RequestRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU (E-Mail to that address is copied to
all of the list admins), and clearly ask to have your OLD address
unsubscribed.  I cc my response to your old & new addresses (As a
courtesy), and if I'm not here Jory can catch you, this way.

 If you have difficulties, or do not understand what to do, send an
e-mail message to .....PICList-RequestSTOPspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU, and one of us will
try to help you.  Do tell us you want help with the PICList as we both
are on / run more than one list!

   PURPOSE and ETIQUETTE

 This list is for the specific purpose of providing a forum about the
use, learning about, safety with, and enjoyment of MicroChip PICs. Other
support "Glue" chips are acceptable off-topic subjects, to some extent.
Questions about Sensors, power supplies, safely running your PIC project
on a car or airplane's electrical system, are also quite acceptable
off-topic subjects;  See the Beginners' FAQ questions later for markings
for OT questions.

 Commercial posts, flaming, spamming, virus warnings, etc. do not
belong in this mailing list, and posting same could result in our
removing you from the list.  (Post to the Admins, let US warn the list,
that way we just see one warning on the list, not 1200!)  Humor happens
here, and is welcome so long as it doesn't result in bodily harm from
too many list readers falling out of their chairs, and so long as it's
kept in reasonable bounds.  Humor isn't the purpose of the list, but the
good laugh provided (relevant to PICs especially) is very welcome on
occasion!  (At the same time, too much of a good thing, is too much.)
Use your judgement and good sense and experience as a guide.

 Posting messages to the list is restricted to subscribers, who are
defined as anyone posting with a logon name and address identical to one
in the list of subscribers.  You cannot post to the list either from a
different address or if you are unsubscribed.

 [For more information about this mailing list, post to:

LISTSERVEraseMEspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (i.e. RemoveMELISTSERVspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU)

with the text

info PICLIST

in the first line of your message.  Also read
http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/piclist.html, Tjaart's handy web page.
Also, see the Archives at http://www.iversoft.com/piclist.]

 This Mini-FAQ is posted by Mark Willis monthly (early in the month),
to help Jory out.  Suggested updates or changes, Post to:

<spamBeGonePICList-RequestKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>

 Mark will post this with this EXACT same title [unless revised, then
the revision date will change] to help keep the list uncluttered with
"unsubscribe" requests, and will e-mail it to anyone on request.

   Newbie FAQ topics and questions:

"RA4 doesn't behave right.  It will pull down, but not up, even though I
set it as an output pin & am writing a '1' to it."

RA4 is an open drain (same as an open collector basically) output pin.
You need to either (a) use a different port pin, or (b) put a pull-up
resistor from that pin to Vdd (+5V typically), to make the pin pull up
as default.

"When I set a port pin as an input, then ground & unground it with a
switch, it sometimes works & other times doesn't work."

You have a floating input;  You want to use a pull-up or a pull-down
resistor, if you are driving this pin with an open drain or a switch to
Vcc or Ground, directly. {mention weak pull-ups?}  10k is a good value
here.

"How do I describe my code that's not working well, to the list?"

It helps a lot if you post an URL (if the code's large), or the
offending 15-20 lines or so, to the list (Some people pay for their
connect time by the minute, so keep it as short as you can;  OTOH, some
people read the list offline, so they cannot help you if you have short
code snippets & don't include them, use judgement here.)  It also helps
if your code uses standard include files, and you describe the schematic
somewhat (i.e. if your code is toggling ra4, and we don't know that you
want it to toggle rb4, we'll wonder what problem exactly you're having
<G>)  It also helps to have a clear idea what the problem you perceive,
IS, what you observe, and what you expect / want to heppen!  Posting a
short message asking for help, with a good descriptive Subject line like
"Need a mentor, 16F84 Remote Tachometer for R/C boat", then giving the
person who volunteers all the info you have, can be more effective than
asking a really good question, but using a completely non-descriptive
Subject line like "problem" or "Help me!".  Think a little on those
subject lines, try to distill your whole post into that line, and you'll
get faster answers.

"My Windowed part works one way usually and sometimes another, now I
burned an OTP part and it behaves in the undesired of the two above."

You need to cover the window on /JW parts, then they'll not have memory
contents affected by ambient light;  I use a small piece of foil,
covered by electrical tape, this is simple to clean, for erasing, and is
very opaque to even IR light (Most electrical tape's transparent to IR
light somewhat.)  If you're doing repeated burns & erase cycles, can use
a small piece of thick cardboard or something like that, you mainly want
to block visible light (when indoors, which is where most of us work.)

"I want to post a request for information that no-one else on the list
may want to hear about;  What do I do?"

Sidestep for a second;
We use the subject line to mark posts for what their content is;  It's
good to post a question like "What's the difference between a 16F84 and
a 16F84A", with something like "Differences between 16F84 and F84A?" as
a subject line.  Many people won't read posts if they don't know what
it's about.

Now back to your question;
We use the flag [OT] to designate that a particular post is Off Topic
for the PicList.  This doesn't always mean that no-one on the list wants
to see your post;  It means that you know you're posting not strictly
about PICs, PIC Programming, or other goodies attached to PICs, but you
still need the information.  So, there are sort of 4 categories:

{Still working on this, folks, so let us polish this up & we'll see
where it goes.}

#1:  Directly related to PICs.  Programming questions, misbehavior
questions, code optimization, Post to the list.

#2:  Stuff attached to a PIC project;  Hooking up to the points on your
older car to make an electronic ignition module, for example.  Right
now, this is marked either with or without [OT], we're probably
migrating to a [Tech] marking for this, to clarify things.  Time will
tell.

#2a:  Electronics Related stuff;  Atmel, Scenix, Motorola, etc.
processors, coding, projects, etc.;

#3:  Stuff that's sort of off-topic for the PICList, but still technical
in nature;  Some of this would be good for posting to the list directly,
with an [OT] marking (for example, the recent Train threads, which have
wandered the gamut from Train braking by PIC-controlled rocket motors,
to kids' educational toys, some of these threads are quite hypothetical
& non-PIC related;  If you wander too far afield, but think most other
PICList members will enjoy what you have to post, consider posting your
reply under an [OT], changed subject line;  Minimize this somewhat, as
otherwise one thread breaks into 157 threads, though.

#3a:  Reminisces about the bad old days in High School when you blew up
$12 worth of electronics project by applying too high a voltage;
Probably post as [OT] to the list, some of those have been pretty
hilarious <G>

#3a:  Questions that're PICList related but don't need discussion on the
list, for example a tutorial about drilling 0.010" holes through 0.020"
wire (I want to know, but not everyone will), probably best if these are
posted to the list with Reply-To set to your personal e-mail address,
and you ask people to post to you personally;  Also good if you post

#4:  Political opinions, Religions opinions, SPAM, personal flames,
fighting, and so on;  We've been perhaps too lenient, and I suspect
we'll start throwing people off the list in future, for these.  If you
want to say something like this, you can use your signature line to
state your opinion, provided it's not flaming someone;  If someone posts
completely off topic on this, please post at them off the list, not ON
the list, as (even though we've been pretty mellow) we are likely to use
automated processes in future to end threads that're destructive.  More
later on this.

"Why all these different subject headers?"

Some people on the PICList want JUST PIC programming and code
optimization information - they're too busy, or uninterested, in the
other categories.

Some people want it all, want to talk about their R/C plane that crashed
because they forgot to re-attach the antenna, about what processor(s)
are best for their project, and so on.

Many are somewhere in the middle.  If we all use these conventions,
we'll be able to pick & choose what posts interest us most, and read
those first, as well as to ignore or read last, those we don't care so
much about.  Some people don't have a lot of time during the week, and
would like sleep after a 14 hour day & 3 hours of commuting, they want
to only spend 15 minutes or so reading the PICList, not 3 hours <G>

{I'm tired & need to work more on ALL of this - Comments?  Volunteers to
take the Mini-FAQ over as I get HEAT in this place, and get more
computers running?}

---  End  ---

 Mark, mwillisspam_OUTspam@spam@FoxInternet.Net

1999\10\18@102303 by eplus1

flavicon
face
The address you mention for Tjaart's handy web page results in the following
message:

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /~tjaart/piclist.html on this server.

As he is no longer a participant in the PICList, I have asked Tjaart for the
page and have modified it and posted it at the address on the bottom of my
signature. If you don't mind I will add this [PICList] Mini-FAQ to that
page. <WHINE> I notice that you didn't mark this post as [OT] or as [ADMIN]
but as [PICList] which I don't think you have mentioned as a category marker
in the past. </WHINE><DUCKING><GRIN>

I would much rather see these pages posted at http://www.piclist.com (Which Jory
must allow/setup) or http://www.piclist.org or .net which is available to anyone
with the necessary resources ($70/2years and access to a server). I have the
server but not the $70.

Please feel free to take anything from my PICList page(s) to use as you
wish. I will try to write more as time allows to help as I can.

James Newton spamBeGonejamesnewton@spam@spamgeocities.com phone:1-619-652-0593
http://techref.homepage.com NOW OPEN (R/O) TO NON-MEMBERS!
Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting)
PICLIST guide: http://204.210.50.240/techref/default.asp?url=piclist.htm


{Original Message removed}

'No mail since PICLIST Digest - 17 Oct 1999 to 18 O'
1999\10\22@080639 by V sml

picon face
Admin,

I have no mail from PICLIST since 17Oct/18Oct digest.  This is the
second time it is happening.  The last disruption was shorter.

I heard that there is a way to retrieve past digest.  Can someone
advise?Please remember to email me directly because I could receive
from the list.

I've also tried to set my subscription back to normal mode (by SET
PICLIST MAIL), but nothing change - still no mail from the list.

Thanks.

Ling SM

1999\10\22@083958 by fernteix

flavicon
face
Hi

Please find http://www.iversoft.com
At least according to my bookmarks

Fernando


-----Original Message-----
From: V sml <RemoveMEdecoderEraseMEspamKILLspamBIGFOOT.COM>
To: spamBeGonePICLISTspam_OUTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU <.....PICLISTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sexta-feira, 22 de Outubro de 1999 13:06
Subject: No mail since PICLIST Digest - 17 Oct 1999 to 18 Oct 1999
(#1999-40)


{Quote hidden}

1999\10\22@181843 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Sometimes, on the Internet (being the way it is), mail doesn't get
through for a while - it does get through eventually.  (Situations
happen like your mail being handed off to a machine which then gets
disconnected due to some problem, be it "backhoe fade" or a hardware
crash, things usually get fixed up in a couple days.

(This is FAQ fodder, so I'm replying list-wide <G>)

I haven't done Digest mode on an L-Soft product, but I think
DIGests/INDex/NODIGests/NOINDex are a separate option from Mail/NOMail,
from a little research here.  Please try "Set PICList NoDigests", that
should set you back into "normal" non-digest mode.

Multiple ways to handle any type of List problems:

1)  Send the command "Query PICList", to the PICList List Server
'Command Input port' at <LISTSERVspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>, and forward the
resulting e-mail you receive in return, to an Admin. (That's me, for
now), with what's wrong;  This gives me more info.  Should get that
response quickly, so if no response in a half hour, let me know that you
tried.  If this happens, it's a router problem.  If you send such a
message & get a delivery error, though, I want to know as I need to
contact MIT or something (unlikely though.)  By sending "Info REFCard"
to that same address, you can get FULL info on commands you can send to
the PICList List Server, 19k last time I grabbed that <G>

2)  Unsubscribe from the PICList and subscribe again.  Yeah, I know,
it's a pain!  But sometimes the only way, seemingly, to fix some things
(Methinks L-Soft has a bug to stomp somewhere in the Options
setting/clearing code - for their credit, they seem to have most of them
pretty well squished!)  You'll have to then set your options again,
which is a pain.  I think (haven't tested yet) that you can put the
options all into one e-mail, too, i.e. Subscribe on the first line, Set
PICList Mail on the second, and even Set PICList Repro on the third {Now
the default}, Set PICList NoACK on the fourth {Again the default} if you
wanted.  (I don't mind people asking for help, either, especially when
they cannot unsub an old address due to an ISP change or ISP name
change, it takes me 3 seconds to unsub people, so just make sure you ask
me to unsub the CORRECT ADDRESS, lest I unsub the wrong one!)

3)  To get at old posts, either jump to http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/
and read there, or, you can send the command "Index PICList" to the
PICList List Server 'Command Input port' at <EraseMELISTSERVRemoveMEspamSTOPspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>,
which will get an index of old PICList messages for you.  I don't think
the list server keeps all messages ever posted, but it does keep some.
You can then order individual messages by using "GETPOST PicList Ref#1
Ref#2 ..." etc., where Ref#1 is a reference number in the Index you just
received.

New news:  If you're moving to a new ISP, you can send in the command
"CHange PICList newemailaddress@newISP", to move your subscription.  I
hadn't seen THAT one before, I think this is due to the recent upgrade
of the L-Soft software.

 Mark

V sml wrote:
{Quote hidden}


'[PICList] Mini-FAQ, Revised Oct. 14, 1999 (Pre-Dra'
1999\11\17@011535 by Sean Breheny
face picon face
At 09:55 PM 11/16/99 -0800, you wrote:
>>As he is no longer a participant in the PICList, I have asked Tjaart for the
>>page and have modified it and posted it at the address on the bottom of my
>>signature. If you don't mind I will add this [PICList] Mini-FAQ to that
>>page. <WHINE> I notice that you didn't mark this post as [OT] or as [ADMIN]
>>but as [PICList] which I don't think you have mentioned as a category marker
>>in the past. </WHINE><DUCKING><GRIN>

<BLUSH> I notice that my PIC-O'Scope project link is listed in the FAQ. To
those who (despite the bitscope and others) are still interested in
projects like this: I have NOT given it up (despite the lack of updates for
ages). I have been sidetracked by school and other projects (yes,they
involve PICs and will be documented on my page soon). I hope to be going
back to the O'Scope project soon </BLUSH>

To those who don't know what the PIC-O'Scope is: the idea is to build a
simple,yet useful PIC-based DSO with at least 40MS/s capability,and
possibly mate it with a logic analyzer. I was working on it feverishly
about a year ago, but got sidetracked. Take a look at:

http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7/posc.html


Sean

|
| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
| Electrical Engineering Student
\--------------=----------------
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
RemoveMEshb7KILLspamspamTakeThisOuTcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174


'PICLIST Digest - 7 Dec 1999 to 8 Dec 1999 (#1999-9'
1999\12\09@083341 by Jack Shidemantle
flavicon
face
Have not paid much attention to the piclist for a couple weeks and wondered
what I missed since the format is different. I get this piclist digest now
which is very time consuming to scroll through and find what may be an
interesting topic.  In the past it was much easier to scroll through the
titles and open only those that were of interest to me. Am I limited to
this pic digest now?

Thanks
Jack

1999\12\10@031058 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Jack:  Another PICList member is having problems, where your ISP was
bouncing PICList posts to him, to the tune of hundreds+ per day.  I
dropped your subscription into Digest mode, to reduce his problem load
to reasonable levels.  Your ISP seems to have some problems;  I cannot
seem to e-mail directly to you (or you would know this all, already, as
I've mailed you about 6 times.)

I have no problem with you switching back to non-digest mode, just
PLEASE talk to your ISP and ask them to help fix that problem when it
occurs again (It's happened 2+ times before;  There's no
spamBeGonePostmasterspam@spam@ysis.com or RemoveMEPostmasterspam_OUTspamysi.com account, so I cannot reach
your ISP to ask for their help;  I really wish they would act in
accordance with RFC's there!)

 Mark

Jack Shidemantle wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

'PICLIST Digest - 11 Dec 1999 to 12 Dec 1999 (#1999'
1999\12\13@145752 by Hedge Smith

flavicon
face
Hi, I hope this get's to a person.

I have been on the digest mode of the piclist for a week or more and this is alw
ays what I get,
nothing.

I only get the header, and no body.

Is anyone aware of this, am I the only one that this is happening to?  Anything
I can do to fix
it?

Many thanks
Jon



---- Begin Original Message ----
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERVspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 00:03:34 -0500
To: Recipients of PICLIST digests <spam_OUTPICLISTspam_OUTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: PICLIST Digest - 11 Dec 1999 to 12 Dec 1999 (#1999-95)


---- End Original Message ----





Visit my homepage at www.prontomail.com/Prontomail/users/hedge
______________________________________________________________
Get Your Free E-mail and Homepage at http://www.prontomail.com

1999\12\14@061650 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Hi, Hedge - Copied this to you directly.

Things like this usually go to the list admins' address,
<PICList-Requestspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>, normally.  I usually handle this sort
of problem-solving/user helping.

Please just contact me directly, off-list, for further help <G>  I'm at
"Mark Willis" <RemoveMEmwillisKILLspamspam@spam@foxinternet.net>

I've not heard of this problem happening to anyone else before now;  I
take it that when you get messages that aren't from the PICList, you see
the whole message body?  (I've heard of other weirdnesses, just not this
one <G>)

Have you tried moving over to non-digest mode, do you get the messages
fine when set that way?  Some times, the List Server gets just plain
*weird*;  changing your subscription from digest to mail mode, or
unsubscribing and then re-subscribing, will fix things, usually.  Broke
State Machine code, I'd guess <G>

Do this for me, and I'll hope to hear from you in the morning when I'm
more conscious! - Please send the message, "Query PICList", to the List
Server's "Command Input Port", at <LISTSERVspamBeGonespam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>, and forward
a copy of that to me.  (Curious if you'll get the message body or not.)

 Mark

Hedge Smith wrote:
>
> Hi, I hope this get's to a person.
>
> I have been on the digest mode of the piclist for a week or more and this is a
lways what I get,
> nothing.
>
> I only get the header, and no body.
>
> Is anyone aware of this, am I the only one that this is happening to?  Anythin
g I can do to fix
{Quote hidden}

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)


'[OT:] RIP Dawn Elizabeth Payson 29-Mar-1999'
2004\06\30@053200 by At van Wijk
flavicon
face
source= http://www.piclist.com/piclist/1999/04/06/172911a.txt?

---
At  van Wijk
http://www.piclist.com/member/Av-A-YA7
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com

I hope you are doing well by now.  At.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2004 , 2005 only
- Today
- New search...