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'16C63A Programming'
1999\12\14@092528 by Peter Keller

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have a problem with incicuit-programming the 16C63A . I started with the DIL version on sockets and programmed it on an external programmer. Everything was o.k., as expected. Then, when the project was redesigned, the 16C63A was soldered onto the board (smd) and programmed via connector P3, where the signal come from the same pins on the programmer through an adapter cable. Now 2-3 out of 10 PICs wont program without error. Any idea ? Peter Keller [Image] I have a problem with incicuit-programming the 16C63A .
I started with the DIL version on sockets and programmed it on an external programmer.
Everything was o.k., as expected.
Then, when the project was redesigned, the 16C63A was soldered onto the board (smd)
and programmed via connector P3, where the signal come from the same pins on the programmer
through an adapter cable.
Now 2-3  out of 10 PICs wont program without error.
Any idea ?
Peter Keller

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1999\12\14@102236 by Dan Larson

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On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:30:28 +0000, Peter Keller wrote:

>Now 2-3  out of 10 PICs wont program without error.
>Any idea ?

Cable too long?

1999\12\14@111216 by Giles L. Honeycutt

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I agree with Dan, your cable must be too long.  I can't see what you have
attached to RB6 and RB7, but you may want to isolate them from the circuit
for programming.
Another problem I have seen, if you programmer is supplying +5VDC, then it
could be overloaded or if it is turned on at time of programming, it could
be coming up slow.

Suggestion:
1. Ty using a slower programming algorithm.  (What software are you using?),
if you are using the PRO16 software, you might try the ITU software, it
seems to operate at a slower pace. (only because I noticed how much faster
the PRO16 software burns)
2. Try removing the components attached to RB6-7 and see if unloading them
helps.
3. Verify powersuppy operation on the programmer.
4. Shorten programming cable (or slow down programming)

We are having similar problems with the 877 PIC.  Please let us know what
works best for you.
I am wanting to find some good source code for operating the programmers so
I can customize it to our need.

Best of luck,
Giles


{Original Message removed}

1999\12\14@112459 by Dan Larson

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On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:09:54 -0600, Giles L. Honeycutt wrote:

>Another problem I have seen, if you programmer is supplying +5VDC, then it
>could be overloaded or if it is turned on at time of programming, it could
>be coming up slow.

Oh, ya, one should also isolate Vcc from the rest of the circuit during
programming.  A schottky diode between Vcc of the board and the PIC will
prevent the Vcc from the programmer from flowing into the rest of the
board.  Use the same thing on the MCLR line too so VPP ddoesn't flow
into the board.  Works for my robot...

Dan

1999\12\14@113130 by Peter Keller

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"Giles L. Honeycutt" schrieb:

> I agree with Dan, your cable must be too long.  I can't see what you have
> attached to RB6 and RB7, but you may want to isolate them from the circuit
> for programming.

The LCD-Display is the only part connected to RB6 & RB7.
I will give 'em a try without it.

>
> Another problem I have seen, if you programmer is supplying +5VDC, then it
> could be overloaded or if it is turned on at time of programming, it could
> be coming up slow.
>

There are 5V comming from the supply. The connection to the programmer is off.

>
> Suggestion:
> 1. Ty using a slower programming algorithm.  (What software are you using?),
> if you are using the PRO16 software, you might try the ITU software, it
> seems to operate at a slower pace. (only because I noticed how much faster
> the PRO16 software burns)

I am using the Galep-3 programmer. I have no access to the software.

>
> 2. Try removing the components attached to RB6-7 and see if unloading them
> helps.

Difficult, All circuit, including the LCD-Controller are on the same board. I
have to cut traces.
And that's no way for production.

>
> 3. Verify powersuppy operation on the programmer.

checked, +5.05V & +12.98V

>
> 4. Shorten programming cable (or slow down programming)

yes, to < 10 cm

>
>
> We are having similar problems with the 877 PIC.  Please let us know what
> works best for you.
> I am wanting to find some good source code for operating the programmers so
> I can customize it to our need.

I am interested in a programmer for PICs-only, where I have the possibility to
modify software,
but also to download updates. It has to be a professional tool.

Thanks for your good ideas.
The process in verifying the next steps is time-consuming (and costly too):
programming, unsoldering the smd-device,
soldering a new device, programming ..... you see !

>
>
> Best of luck,
> Giles
>
> {Original Message removed}

1999\12\14@152816 by Andre Abelian

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1999\12\14@160038 by Russell McMahon

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<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Cct looks OK.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT size=2>You don't show what else is
on D6 &amp; D7.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Are the loads here plus perhaps extra cable than before an
issue - timings could be affected.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Have you looked at the programming waveforms at these pins on
an oscilloscope and compared them with those for the DIP package?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>IF you have control of the programming software, have you
tried slowing down the relative programming timing of the clock and data
signals?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>What is the programming voltage AT the IC being programmed -
12 volts is arguably too low and 12 volts behind a semiconductor switch
(transistor etc) is worse.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Russell
McMahon<BR>_____________________________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>From other worlds - <A
href="http://www.easttimor.com">http://www.easttimor.com</A><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<A href="http://www.sudan.com">www.sudan.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>What can one man* do?&nbsp; <BR>Help the hungry
at no cost to yourself!<BR>at&nbsp; <A
href="http://www.thehungersite.com/">www.thehungersite.com/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>(* - or woman, child or internet enabled
intelligent entity :-)) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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   <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>{Original Message removed}

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