Searching \ for '[pic]: pic16f877 vs intel 80c196kb ????' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/devices.htm?key=16F
Search entire site for: 'pic16f877 vs intel 80c196kb ????'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[pic]: pic16f877 vs intel 80c196kb ????'
2003\05\17@065454 by ferryc

picon face
hi.....

i'm a pic16f84a user, and now would try to use more 'advanced' micro for
aplication :robotic arm that controlled by pc using pic 16f877, but a friend
told me to use intel 80c196kb...

so please anyone tell me the differencies from 2 micro :
and please give me information about following subject

a. Programmer
if i'm not mistaken 80c196kb uses an external memory... so do i have
to buy the programmer for the micro and and the external memory
(2 programmer ????), which is only need one programmer in 16f877...

b.feature
what is usart in 16f877 and high speed i/o in 80c196kb???
what is PWM   ???

Thanks....
--
Best regards,
ferryc

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\17@081447 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Sat, May 17, 2003 at 01:35:31PM +0700, spam_OUTferrycTakeThisOuTspamMYREALBOX.COM wrote:
> hi.....
>
> i'm a pic16f84a user, and now would try to use more 'advanced' micro for
> aplication :robotic arm that controlled by pc using pic 16f877, but a friend
> told me to use intel 80c196kb...

Did your friend say why you should move to the 196?

{Quote hidden}

Actually I'm not going to bother. Here's why: moving to the Intel part would
require you learning a completely new toolchain, from programming language,
to programmer, to architecture, to programming style. As a 16F84A user you
have already invested a significant amount of time in learning how PICs
operate. In short unless the 196 absolutely does something the 877 cannot,
it is doubtful that switching will be very productive.

One last point. Where exactly are you going to go to ask 80C196 questions? ;-)

Unless your friend can explain to you in detail why you need a new hammer,
you are much better off using the hammer you already know. The very fact that
you are here asking why you should consider switching means that he doesn't.

One last caveat: be mindful that the 16F877A (note the A) has a different
programming specification than the 16F877 (without the A). So while your
programmer may work with the latter, the former is another kettle of fish.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\17@092200 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Actually I'm not going to bother. Here's why: moving to the Intel part
> would require you learning a completely new toolchain, from programming
> language, to programmer, to architecture, to programming style. As a
> 16F84A user you have already invested a significant amount of time in
> learning how PICs operate. In short unless the 196 absolutely does
> something the 877 cannot,
> it is doubtful that switching will be very productive.
>
> One last point. Where exactly are you going to go to ask 80C196
> questions? ;-)
>
> Unless your friend can explain to you in detail why you need a new
> hammer, you are much better off using the hammer you already know. The
> very fact that you are here asking why you should consider switching
> means that he doesn't.

I agree with Byron but want to add a few points.  I haven't looked up the
80C196, so I don't have a good idea of its capabilities.  It is probably a
larger chip than the 16F877.  As Byron said, if a PIC can do the job and
you're already familiar with PICs, then use a PIC.

However, I recommend the 18F452 instead of the 16F877.  The 18F part is
only a little more expensive in small quantities and actually cheaper in
large quantities.  In either case the difference is tiny compared to other
costs of building a robot.  The 18F part has roughly twice the code space
and twice the compute power, and more than twice the RAM.  It is also
easier to program.  Bank switching issues have been reduced and page
issues have been nearly eliminated.

Do you really need a 40 pin part to control the robot arm?  Remember,
these chips have internal RAM and ROM, so most of the pins are I/O lines.
The next step down is the 18F252.  This is essentially the same chip in a
28 pin instead of 40 pin package.

I have done Intel 8051-type microcontroller development, and prefer using
PICs by a large margin.  This has nothing to do with the programming
architecture or their capabilities.  The two architectures are very
different, but in the end both can usually do the job for about the same
price.  The Intel family has a higher high end than PICs do, so it can do
some tasks PICs can't.

The main reason I prefer PICs is because of the great support I get from
Microchip.  I get the development software, simulator, emulator, and the
chips all from one source, and they are reasonably priced.  Microchip
seems to understand that its worth a few $$ to help me design in their
parts once so they can make more $$ selling chips later.  When I have a
PIC problem I have one place to contact, whether it has to do with the
assembler/librarian/linker, IDE, simulator, emulator, the PIC itself, or
some interaction between these components.  That kind of support for the
8051 family is just not available.  That's because Intel (or several
others) make the chips, Kyle and a few other make the software tools, and
somebody else makes the ICE.  Whichever party you call, their first
reaction is to blame one of the other parties, this is assuming you can
talk to someone intelligent at Intel at all.  This isn't hypothetical
speculation, by the way.  I've been there.  It's a pain.

The tools also cost a lot more because the people selling you the tools
won't make any money on the chips later.  They have to get what they can
from you up front.  For PIC development, the assembler, librarian, linker,
IDE, and simulator are totally free and maintained by Microchip.  You will
need a programmer and something beyond the simulator for testing,
especially for complex projects or if you're a beginner.  If I remember
right, the ICD2 is a few hundred $$ (I use the ICE-2000 and never bought
an ICD, so this could be quite wrong), which is the only cash outlay you
need to get started.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\17@161249 by Tal

flavicon
face
> what is PWM   ???

PWM stands fro Pulse Width Modulation. A PWM output typically generates
continious 'square wave' signal (alternating ones and zero) of steady
srequency and a duty cycle that is controlled by the CPU. It is used for
example as a cheap diginal to analog converter with a simple filtering
circuit that converts the square wave to DC voltage proportional to the
duty cycle of the signal but there are many other applications that use
PWM.

Tal

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\17@161258 by Tal

flavicon
face
> One last caveat: be mindful that the 16F877A (note the A) has
> a different programming specification than the 16F877
> (without the A). So while your programmer may work with the
> latter, the former is another kettle of fish.

A college of mine just found it the hard way. He switched to 16F877A and
found that his Warp13 programmer is not usable anymore. He was able to
program it though (ICSP) with a PicStart.

Tal

> {Original Message removed}

2003\05\17@163424 by Ben Jackson

flavicon
face
On Sat, May 17, 2003 at 01:11:16PM -0700, Tal wrote:
>
> A college of mine just found it the hard way. He switched to 16F877A and
> found that his Warp13 programmer is not usable anymore. He was able to
> program it though (ICSP) with a PicStart.

The WARP-13 will program the 16F877A with the latest firmware.  You can
use it to flash a new 16F73 for itself (see the web page for the complete
list of suitable parts).  I think at least one reseller was throwing in
a spare 16F73 for exactly that purpose.  Of course if you also have a
PICStart then you could just upgrade the existing chip.

You can get the firmware at:

       http://www.newfoundelectronics.com/firmware.htm

--
Ben Jackson
<.....benKILLspamspam@spam@ben.com>
http://www.ben.com/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\18@001536 by Tal

flavicon
face
Thanks,

I will let him know and will report here how it went. We should have
16F73 DIP laying around.

Tal

> {Original Message removed}

2003\05\18@001543 by Tal

flavicon
face
Thanks,

I will let him know and will report here how it went.

Tal

{Quote hidden}

       http://www.newfoundelectronics.com/firmware.htm

--
Ben Jackson
<EraseMEbenspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTben.com>
http://www.ben.com/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\05\19@135203 by Tal

flavicon
face
Ben,

My colleague just told me that with the latest Warp13 firmware and
software, the configuration bits are not programmed correctly with the
16F877A. If you are one of the Warp13 developers, I can ask him to send
you a bug report.

Tal

> {Original Message removed}

2003\05\19@183203 by Ben Jackson

flavicon
face
On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 10:48:47AM -0700, Tal wrote:
>
> My colleague just told me that with the latest Warp13 firmware and
> software, the configuration bits are not programmed correctly with the
> 16F877A. If you are one of the Warp13 developers, I can ask him to send
> you a bug report.

I'm not, I just bought one recently and remembered where to look for
the list of supported PICs and updated FW.  But you should send them
a bug report!

--
Ben Jackson
<benspamspam_OUTben.com>
http://www.ben.com/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2003 , 2004 only
- Today
- New search...