Searching \ for '[pic]: Is there an 8 pin pic with bootloader?' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/devices.htm?key=pic
Search entire site for: 'Is there an 8 pin pic with bootloader?'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[pic]: Is there an 8 pin pic with bootloader?'
2004\02\16@010115 by rad0

flavicon
face
Hello,

Is there an 8 pin pic that you can program with the bootloader method?

Thanks


What's the smallest, most basic pic that uses the bootloader?

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@010115 by rad0

flavicon
face
Hello,

Is there an 8 pin pic that you can program with the bootloader method?

Thanks


What's the smallest, most basic pic that uses the bootloader?

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@013927 by Denny Esterline

picon face
To my knowledge that would be the 16F87 (or it's sister the '88 with ADC).
It's relatively new. The M'chip line card lists it as an 18 pin device and
self programming capable.

To my knowledge none of the 12F parts are bootloadable.

-Denny


{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@013927 by Denny Esterline

picon face
To my knowledge that would be the 16F87 (or it's sister the '88 with ADC).
It's relatively new. The M'chip line card lists it as an 18 pin device and
self programming capable.

To my knowledge none of the 12F parts are bootloadable.

-Denny


{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@014135 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 12:00:02AM -0600, rad0 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is there an 8 pin pic that you can program with the bootloader method?

Nope. It would be interesting though.

>
> Thanks
>
>
> What's the smallest, most basic pic that uses the bootloader?

Probably the 16F818. But with 1K of program memory, space will get tight
with a bootloader. Also the 818 doesn't have a UART so you'd have to bit
bang.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@014135 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 12:00:02AM -0600, rad0 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is there an 8 pin pic that you can program with the bootloader method?

Nope. It would be interesting though.

>
> Thanks
>
>
> What's the smallest, most basic pic that uses the bootloader?

Probably the 16F818. But with 1K of program memory, space will get tight
with a bootloader. Also the 818 doesn't have a UART so you'd have to bit
bang.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@111545 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 01:40:12AM -0500, Denny Esterline wrote:
> To my knowledge that would be the 16F87 (or it's sister the '88 with ADC).
> It's relatively new. The M'chip line card lists it as an 18 pin device and
> self programming capable.

The 16F818 and 16F819 are also self programmable. And cheaper than the 16F87
or the 16F88.

BAJ
>
> To my knowledge none of the 12F parts are bootloadable.

I believe that's correct.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@111545 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 01:40:12AM -0500, Denny Esterline wrote:
> To my knowledge that would be the 16F87 (or it's sister the '88 with ADC).
> It's relatively new. The M'chip line card lists it as an 18 pin device and
> self programming capable.

The 16F818 and 16F819 are also self programmable. And cheaper than the 16F87
or the 16F88.

BAJ
>
> To my knowledge none of the 12F parts are bootloadable.

I believe that's correct.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@120608 by Denny Esterline

picon face
I stand corrected, my data was based on the line card (no price info)
-Dk



> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 01:40:12AM -0500, Denny Esterline wrote:
> > To my knowledge that would be the 16F87 (or it's sister the '88 with
ADC).
> > It's relatively new. The M'chip line card lists it as an 18 pin device
and
> > self programming capable.
>
> The 16F818 and 16F819 are also self programmable. And cheaper than the
16F87
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@120608 by Denny Esterline

picon face
I stand corrected, my data was based on the line card (no price info)
-Dk



> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 01:40:12AM -0500, Denny Esterline wrote:
> > To my knowledge that would be the 16F87 (or it's sister the '88 with
ADC).
> > It's relatively new. The M'chip line card lists it as an 18 pin device
and
> > self programming capable.
>
> The 16F818 and 16F819 are also self programmable. And cheaper than the
16F87
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@153616 by John N. Power

flavicon
face
> From:         rad0[SMTP:spam_OUTrad0TakeThisOuTspamDIRECWAY.COM]
> Sent:         Monday, February 16, 2004 1:00 AM
> To:   .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      [pic]: Is there an 8 pin pic with bootloader?

> Hello,

> Is there an 8 pin pic that you can program with the bootloader method?

> Thanks

> What's the smallest, most basic pic that uses the bootloader?

There is one thing you have to keep in mind, in spite of the responses
already given. No PIC comes from Microchip with a bootloader already
installed. If you want to use a bootloader, you have to program it into
the chip the first time using another method. When microcontrollers
are advertised as having a bootloader, it usually means that a mask-
programmed routine is supplied by the manufacturer within the chip.
I am not aware of such a product supplied by Microchip.

John Power

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@153616 by John N. Power

flavicon
face
> From:         rad0[SMTP:rad0spamKILLspamDIRECWAY.COM]
> Sent:         Monday, February 16, 2004 1:00 AM
> To:   .....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      [pic]: Is there an 8 pin pic with bootloader?

> Hello,

> Is there an 8 pin pic that you can program with the bootloader method?

> Thanks

> What's the smallest, most basic pic that uses the bootloader?

There is one thing you have to keep in mind, in spite of the responses
already given. No PIC comes from Microchip with a bootloader already
installed. If you want to use a bootloader, you have to program it into
the chip the first time using another method. When microcontrollers
are advertised as having a bootloader, it usually means that a mask-
programmed routine is supplied by the manufacturer within the chip.
I am not aware of such a product supplied by Microchip.

John Power

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@191230 by Victor Faria

picon face
16f818 as far as I know.
but there is the picaxe they do use an 8 pin 12f629.
I don't know how they do it but they do it!!
Take a peek
http://www.microzed.com.au/index-2.htm
victor


{Original Message removed}

2004\02\16@191230 by Victor Faria

picon face
16f818 as far as I know.
but there is the picaxe they do use an 8 pin 12f629.
I don't know how they do it but they do it!!
Take a peek
http://www.microzed.com.au/index-2.htm
victor


{Original Message removed}

2004\02\16@210423 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 07:10:55PM -0500, Victor Faria wrote:
> 16f818 as far as I know.

Right.

> but there is the picaxe they do use an 8 pin 12f629.
> I don't know how they do it but they do it!!

I do. Pretty simple. PICAXE tokens are loaded into the data EEPROM. The
PICAXE itself is a bytecode interpreter preburned into the chip. The
interpreter reads tokens from the data EEPROM and executes them. So it
ends up being a Basic Stamp type setup using the internal data EEPROM.

My NPCI system was devised that way a few years ago. However I found the
limited amount of data EEPROM space limiting.

Of course with Wouter's ZPL technique which uses the MCLR line as a
communications channel, one can regain the use of an I/O pin with this
same technique.

It would seem that the 16F818/819 would be the best candidate as it's self
programmable and actually has enough program memory to make it worthwhile.

I believe that a F819 with a NPCI interpreter and a ZPL bootloader would
make for a interesting development system especially when using the internal
8 Mhz oscillator, gaining back 2 more I/O pins in the 18 pin package. And
at under $2 each in 100 piece quantities, it would be cost effective too.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\16@210423 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 07:10:55PM -0500, Victor Faria wrote:
> 16f818 as far as I know.

Right.

> but there is the picaxe they do use an 8 pin 12f629.
> I don't know how they do it but they do it!!

I do. Pretty simple. PICAXE tokens are loaded into the data EEPROM. The
PICAXE itself is a bytecode interpreter preburned into the chip. The
interpreter reads tokens from the data EEPROM and executes them. So it
ends up being a Basic Stamp type setup using the internal data EEPROM.

My NPCI system was devised that way a few years ago. However I found the
limited amount of data EEPROM space limiting.

Of course with Wouter's ZPL technique which uses the MCLR line as a
communications channel, one can regain the use of an I/O pin with this
same technique.

It would seem that the 16F818/819 would be the best candidate as it's self
programmable and actually has enough program memory to make it worthwhile.

I believe that a F819 with a NPCI interpreter and a ZPL bootloader would
make for a interesting development system especially when using the internal
8 Mhz oscillator, gaining back 2 more I/O pins in the 18 pin package. And
at under $2 each in 100 piece quantities, it would be cost effective too.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\02\17@183428 by Victor Faria

picon face
So when will your NCPI bet out ???
and your right about wouter's ZPL
I have been waiting to see if someone is going to offer a kit or ???
with a windows interface
also does anyone know if there is a windows version  of the xwisp???
victor
{Original Message removed}

2004\02\17@184251 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Victor Faria wrote :

> ...and your right about wouter's ZPL
> I have been waiting to see if someone is going to offer a kit or ???
> with a windows interface
> also does anyone know if there is a windows version  of the xwisp???

Hm, I must be missunderstanding something here...

Both ZPL and XWisp*are* running on Windows.
Perhaps you could be more specific ?
And what "kit" are you waiting for ? What should be in it ?
Eveything you need for both ZPL and XWisp are downloadable
from Wouters site (well, excluding the Python bits, but there are
links to those sites)...

Regards
Jan-Erik.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2004\02\17@184703 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I have been waiting to see if someone is going to offer a kit or ???
> with a windows interface
> also does anyone know if there is a windows version  of the xwisp???

DB016 (see http://www.voti.nl/dwarf/index.html) is a board for an 28-pin
PIC. With an 18F252 with ZPL bootloader it is a complete starter PCB. I
don't yet have a 16F version of ZPL, I'll probably make when when there
is sufficient interest. But honestly I think an 18F is a better value
for money for a starter. A 16F819 (a 16F818 is a bit small with only 1k
code) is of course cheaper but for a starter kit the PIC price is not
that important, and when you want to use more than one or two PICs a
real programmer (Wisp628!) is a better choice.

XWisp works fine on windows, but I must agree it does not look or feel
like a windows program. Maybe I'll add a nice GUI once, but don't hold
your breath. It does what it is supposed to do (download a .hex file)
without much fuss or frills. If you don't like python check Rob
Hamerling's ZPL2 (http://www.robh.nl/PICSOFT.HTM), but that's a command
line tool too.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2004\02\17@192718 by Victor Faria

picon face
OK Wouter, How much interest does it take???
as far as  I know your ZPL is the only one of its kind.
as far as your wisp68 I see it mentioned all over the lists.
and from what I read it seems to be the best in  circuit programmer
available for a decent price to hobbyists.
as far as the ZPL it sounds great because you get back all your pins.
16f would be great because that is what beginners start with/?????
but even if not there are many people using 16f.
yes a GUI would be great!!!!
AS far as a kit perhaps a package at the web shop.
which would include
1-wisp68  2-A serial dangle for the ZPL   3-Xwisp w/gui  or a download

Question  How do you know when there is enough interest :-) ??
victor



{Original Message removed}

2004\02\17@200322 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 07:26:49PM -0500, Victor Faria wrote:
> OK Wouter, How much interest does it take???

Not sure what this means.

> as far as  I know your ZPL is the only one of its kind.

Yes it is. But it's just an extension of the bootloader concept where you
choose the interface. Wouter was able to pick out that MCLR can be used
as a comm channel.

But with the new nanowatt PICs coming online, it isn't as big a deal because
MCLR can become a real input pin too.

> as far as your wisp68 I see it mentioned all over the lists.

wisp628. Serial interface ICSP PIC programmer with a wide range of targets.

> and from what I read it seems to be the best in  circuit programmer
> available for a decent price to hobbyists.

Definitly. Wouter has a great price point and he's generous enough to offer
the schematic and firmware for those who want to do it themselfs.

> as far as the ZPL it sounds great because you get back all your pins.

Yup. Even better, and may be unnoticed even by Wouter, is the fact the you
only need a 2 conductor programming cable too. That means that a mini 2.5 mm
(3/32 in) jack is the perfect interface for the board.

> 16f would be great because that is what beginners start with/?????

There's a lot of debate there. Over the 18F may be better, but in some ways
the inertia of the 16F series still dominates the entry market. You can find
a lot more circuits and more code for the 16F chips right now. I'm sure that'll
change as time goes on.

> but even if not there are many people using 16f.

Right. ZPL for the 16F is 2nd on my PIC TODO list. Updating and releasing a
new picprg is at the top of the list. I just got the 16F819 algorithm working
last night. As soon as I can program all my samples and I can regression test
them I plan to release a major update with both Linux and Windows versions.

> yes a GUI would be great!!!!

But probably unnecessary IMHO. That piece of software only has one purpose:
transfer a hex file to the programmer to program a chip. For development you
may need some interface features (clear buffer and the like). But for
its actual use, there's nothing better than a straight command line.

> AS far as a kit perhaps a package at the web shop.
> which would include
> 1-wisp68  2-A serial dangle for the ZPL   3-Xwisp w/gui  or a download

wisp628 because it has a PIC628 at its core. Also 1 and 2 are kind of
redundant. Better would be a PIC with ZPL preloaded and a cable.

>
> Question  How do you know when there is enough interest :-) ??

Only Wouter can answer this one.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2004\02\17@203853 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 12:46:54AM +0100, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> > I have been waiting to see if someone is going to offer a kit or ???
> > with a windows interface
> > also does anyone know if there is a windows version  of the xwisp???
>
> DB016 (see http://www.voti.nl/dwarf/index.html) is a board for an 28-pin
> PIC. With an 18F252 with ZPL bootloader it is a complete starter PCB. I
> don't yet have a 16F version of ZPL,

Actually Wouter it's high up on my list of things to do. I read your ZPL
doc and added some debugging to zpl.py. BTW I ended up having to blow away
all of your serial.py stuff and installing fresh from freshmeat to get it
to work.

My initial target is going to be the 16F819. I really want to see if the
bootloader is stable when using the internal osciallator module.

But I'm just at the point of regression testing my updated picprg for the
new 4 word algorithm for the 16F819. Then I plan to get to work with ZPL
for the 16F. So you may want to hold off at least for a bit.

> I'll probably make when when there
> is sufficient interest. But honestly I think an 18F is a better value
> for money for a starter. A 16F819 (a 16F818 is a bit small with only 1k
> code) is of course cheaper but for a starter kit the PIC price is not
> that important, and when you want to use more than one or two PICs a
> real programmer (Wisp628!) is a better choice.

I agree to a point. However the 16F88 is looking real sweet right now for
the hobbyist. Real UART, real A/D, nanowatt enabled, self programmable, 4K
program space, 18 pin package. Only $2.60 USD in quantity. It would be a
excellent target for a hobbyist, especially if it had a ZPL bootloader in it.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2004\02\17@215538 by Victor Faria

picon face
Sounds great
Please keep us informed :-).
Victor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Byron A Jeff" <EraseMEbyronspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTCC.GATECH.EDU>
To: <PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [pic]: Is there an 8 pin pic with bootloader?


{Quote hidden}

because
> MCLR can become a real input pin too.
>
> > as far as your wisp68 I see it mentioned all over the lists.
>
> wisp628. Serial interface ICSP PIC programmer with a wide range of
targets.
>
> > and from what I read it seems to be the best in  circuit programmer
> > available for a decent price to hobbyists.
>
> Definitly. Wouter has a great price point and he's generous enough to
offer
> the schematic and firmware for those who want to do it themselfs.
>
> > as far as the ZPL it sounds great because you get back all your pins.
>
> Yup. Even better, and may be unnoticed even by Wouter, is the fact the you
> only need a 2 conductor programming cable too. That means that a mini 2.5
mm
> (3/32 in) jack is the perfect interface for the board.
>
> > 16f would be great because that is what beginners start with/?????
>
> There's a lot of debate there. Over the 18F may be better, but in some
ways
> the inertia of the 16F series still dominates the entry market. You can
find
> a lot more circuits and more code for the 16F chips right now. I'm sure
that'll
> change as time goes on.
>
> > but even if not there are many people using 16f.
>
> Right. ZPL for the 16F is 2nd on my PIC TODO list. Updating and releasing
a
> new picprg is at the top of the list. I just got the 16F819 algorithm
working
> last night. As soon as I can program all my samples and I can regression
test
> them I plan to release a major update with both Linux and Windows
versions.
>
> > yes a GUI would be great!!!!
>
> But probably unnecessary IMHO. That piece of software only has one
purpose:
> transfer a hex file to the programmer to program a chip. For development
you
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2004\02\18@030408 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> My initial target is going to be the 16F819. I really want to
> see if the
> bootloader is stable when using the internal osciallator module.

One thing I noticed with a scoop hookep up is that the resistor from the
transistor's base to ground is realy needed and must be ~ 1k, 10k
results in a too-slow switching off. If you want to use the internal osc
you might need a lower value pull-up resistor than I recommend, maybe 1k
too.

> I agree to a point. However the 16F88 is looking real sweet
> right now for
> the hobbyist. Real UART, real A/D, nanowatt enabled, self
> programmable, 4K
> program space, 18 pin package. Only $2.60 USD in quantity. It
> would be a
> excellent target for a hobbyist, especially if it had a ZPL
> bootloader in it.

Maybe for a DIY-starter. But note thate an 18F252 (16k code, 28 pins) is
only ~ twice that price.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\02\18@114136 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 09:03:56AM +0100, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> > My initial target is going to be the 16F819. I really want to
> > see if the
> > bootloader is stable when using the internal osciallator module.
>
> One thing I noticed with a scoop hookep up is that the resistor from the
> transistor's base to ground is realy needed and must be ~ 1k, 10k
> results in a too-slow switching off.

No problem. That should provide enough base current for a fast turn off.
I usually use 1k resistors with 2N2222 style PNPs anyway.

> If you want to use the internal osc
> you might need a lower value pull-up resistor than I recommend, maybe 1k
> too.

Definitely will. Helpful because I have a whole roll of 1Ks in my box.

{Quote hidden}

Help me out with the 18F. I have a few issues. Care to address them?

1) Programming infrastructure support. As I stated I'm working on updating
my picprg to work with newer PICs. I finally figured out that pretty much
all of the 14 bit cores use the same programming and erasure algorithms, with
only the delay times and block size parameterized. But the 18Fs are a
completely different animal. So programmers that support it in the homebrew
arena are coming up slower. I know that Wisp628, PikDev, and I believe
Odysessey have such support so it is coming along.

2) Software infrastructure support. I haven't checked the state of the
programming languages lately but other than assembler, what has full 18F
support and is available for alternative platforms such as Linux? I've turned
over the NPCI project to Brad Parker who said he'd tackle getting a 18F
bytecode interpreter (which I had started but hadn't finished or tested)
going. Where is JAL, XCSB, SDCC, and the like in terms of 18F support?
gpasm works fine of course, but as you well know it's easy to get spoiled
by having high level languages available. I'm sorry I haven't researched
this question and find out the answers for myself.

3) Tutorial/Example infrastructure. Sure the 18F is better (actually see point
4 below), but how many examples/tutorials/running code can you find for it.
Consider Fr. McGahee's PICUART tutorial/code. A brilliant example of how
to leverage real code to show how the PIC serial interface works warts and
all. Is there a similar 18F version? Is there examples of how to really
utilize all the cool 18F features like the less segmented memory space, branch
instructions and the like?

4) Silicon issues. Not running at the full 40 Mhz, PLL issues, and the like.
I get the willies when the erratta sheet states that operation faster than
4 Mhz is not guranteed. While the 16F does has it quirks (pulling down the LVP
pin even when LVP mode is disabled for example) it's pretty stable.

Anyway getting up to speed with the 18F series is in the cards and you have
helped by providing my perferred programming environment. I have some 18F1320s
and 18F452s in stock and getting some 18F4320s too. Once I get picprg
stabilized with the newer 16Fs (16F87XA and 16F819 have been tested and they
work), and get a preliminary ZPL going, I'll come back to them again.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\02\18@115549 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> 1) Programming infrastructure support.

ic-prog claims to support the 18F's, so just about every 'simple'
programmer design should be a ble to do the 18F's (provided that it
works in the first place)

> 2) Software infrastructure support.

Jal definitely does 18F, but not as efficient as it could be. But
definitely useable (I use it a lot)

The C18 compiler from Microchip is expensive, but the time-limited demo
is free (and can be re-installed :)

> 3) Tutorial/Example infrastructure.

Not much yet that I know of. If I find the time (not likely :( ) I will
expand the range of Dwarf Notes. But not that the 18F's lack some
problems that make the 12 and 14 bit cores hard to use, so they need
less hand-holding tutorials :)

> 4) Silicon issues. Not running at the full 40 Mhz, PLL

No real issues that I know of for the 18Fxx2 series, which I consider
the first choices.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\02\18@134323 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 05:53:53PM +0100, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> > 1) Programming infrastructure support.
>
> ic-prog claims to support the 18F's, so just about every 'simple'
> programmer design should be a ble to do the 18F's (provided that it
> works in the first place)

Solves the problem for Windows users, but cross platform support is critical.
It's one reason why I've finally investigated how to get picprg crossplatform
by using the mingw compiler to get a Windows version going.

>
> > 2) Software infrastructure support.
>
> Jal definitely does 18F, but not as efficient as it could be. But
> definitely useable (I use it a lot)

May seem to be a dumb question but... Exactly which JAL version do you use
now? Your own? Or the SourceForge version?

{Quote hidden}

I'll test out my 18F452s when I get a chance.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\02\18@134735 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> May seem to be a dumb question but... Exactly which JAL
> version do you use now? Your own? Or the SourceForge version?

Good question. Sometimes 0447 because the software was written for that,
sometimes a slightly enhanced variation of the SF version. But IIRC 0447
already supported the 18F;s.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\02\18@154654 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Byron A Jeff wrote :

> Help me out with the 18F. I have a few issues.

Hi.

I pass on the Linux issues. When using a "industry standard"
environment, there are plenty of tools ;-)


> 3) Tutorial/Example infrastructure. Sure the 18F is better
>  but how many examples/tutorials/running code can
> you find for it.

The 16 and 18 series are not *that* different. Sure, many things can
be done smarter on a 18-series, but could also be done in a more
16-series like way. And since the 18-series are easier to program with
have less traps, ther are also less need for a lot of toturials...

> Consider Fr. McGahee's PICUART tutorial/code. A brilliant
> example of how to leverage real code to show how the PIC
> serial interface works warts and all. Is there a similar 18F
> version?

Note that many newer PICs (such as the current 18F1220/1320
and the comming 16F688) uses the new EUSART, with a 16 bit
baud rate register. McGahee's code *may* work on those PICs, but
if so, not in an optimum way. So if someone doesn't update
that tutorial, it will soon be outdated anyway. Search for "EUSART"
in the Line Card to get all PICs with that peripherial. I've never
seen a specific 18-series version, but much of the tips (but maybe
not the code as such) might still be usuable.

And, even if you don't use Olins develop environment, you could
always read and leard from his UART macros. They include automatic
handling of AUSART/EUSART and 8/16 bit baud rate register at build
time in his macros.

> Is there examples of how
> to really utilize all the cool 18F features like the less segmented
> memory space, branch instructions and the like?

Not sure what you mean with examples. For specific instructions, there
are always the data sheet (or the PIC18 Ref Manual with better examples
for each instruction).  The less segmented memory isn't anything you
actualy "use", it's just less things to worry about.

> 4) Silicon issues. Not running at the full 40 Mhz, PLL
> issues, and the like. I get the willies when the erratta sheet
> states that operation faster than 4 Mhz is not guranteed.

I think you should get a current status about this. Aren't most of
this problems (at least in the smaller 18F-PICs) solved now ?

Regards
Jan-Erik.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\02\19@030819 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Hi.
I sent this some time ago, but never saw it on the list.
Trying to resend...
Regards
Jan-Erik.



  > Help me out with the 18F. I have a few issues.

  Hi.

  I pass on the Linux issues. When using a "industry standard"
  environment, there are plenty of tools ;-)


  > 3) Tutorial/Example infrastructure. Sure the 18F is better
  >  but how many examples/tutorials/running code can
  > you find for it.

  The 16 and 18 series are not *that* different. Sure, many things can
  be done smarter on a 18-series, but could also be done in a more
  16-series like way. And since the 18-series are easier to program with
  have less traps, ther are also less need for toturials...

  > Consider Fr. McGahee's PICUART tutorial/code. A brilliant
  > example of how to leverage real code to show how the PIC
  > serial interface works warts and all. Is there a similar 18F
  > version?

  Note that many newer PICs (such as the current 18F1220/1320
  and the comming 16F688) uses the new EUSART, with a 16 bit
  baud rate register. McGahee's code *may* work on those PICs, but
  if so, not in an optimum way. So if someone doesn't update
  that tutorial, it will soon be outdated anyway. Search for "EUSART"
  in the Line Card to get all PICs with that peripherial. I've never
  seen a specific 18-series version, but much of the tips (but maybe
  not the code as such) might still be usuable.

  And, even if you don't use Olins develop environment, you could
  always read and leard from his UART macros. They include automatic
  handling of AUSART/EUSART and 8/16 bit baud rate register at build
  time in his macros.

  > Is there examples of how
  > to really utilize all the cool 18F features like the less segmented
  > memory space, branch instructions and the like?

  Not sure what you mean with examples. For specific instructions, there
  are always the data sheet (or the PIC18 Ref Manual with better examples
  for each instruction).  The less segmented memory isn't anything you
  actualy "use", it's just less things to worry about.

  > 4) Silicon issues. Not running at the full 40 Mhz, PLL
  > issues, and the like. I get the willies when the erratta sheet
  > states that operation faster than 4 Mhz is not guranteed.

  I think you should get a current status about this. Aren't most of
  this problems (at least in the smaller 18F-PICs) solved now ?

  Regards
  Jan-Erik.

Jan-Erik Svderholm
S:t Anna Data
tel : +46 121 42161
mob : +46 70 5241690

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email @spam@listservKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2004\02\19@121639 by Charles Linquist

flavicon
face
A bootloader normally requires a hardware UART, and I'm
unaware of any 8-pin device that has one.




{Original Message removed}

2004\02\19@141213 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:15:25AM -0800, Charles Linquist wrote:
> A bootloader normally requires a hardware UART, and I'm
> unaware of any 8-pin device that has one.

A bootloader certainly does not require a hardware UART. Wouter is the
absolute master of devising bootloader interfaces that minimally impact the
I/O resources required to support it. Totally without his permission
I'll post the relavent discussion he wrote in the ZPL documentation:
(ANY EMPHESIS MINE and [My comments in brackets]: BAJ)

----------------------- Begin Quote --------------------------------

Communication

A bootloader must communicate with the host system (PC). This
(traditionally) requires the use of one or more I/O pins. Using the
target's hardware UART can reduce the code size of the bootloader, but
requires the use of the UART's fixed I/O pins. USING A BIT-BANGED
(SOFTWARE) UART GIVES FULL FREEDOM IN CHOOSING THE i/o PINS USED FOR
COMMUNICATION (and with some cleverness one pin is sufficient), but at the
cost of more code [ BTW this is what Wouter uses for his Wloader
bootloader].

[Wouter then continues by pointing out that really any I/O resources may cost
too much in terms of dedicated bootloader usage... ]

The historical trend is that new microcontrollers are faster
and have more memory and peripherals than their predecessors, at a price that
is only a fraction higher (or sometimes even lower!). The 18Fxxx family
illustrates this trend: compared to the 16Fxxx chips they offer twice the
code space, twice the speed, much more RAM, a more powerful CPU, and more and
better peripherals. The number of I/O pins however does [not] increase at the
same rate, because it is limited by the available packages.  So with each new
generation of chips the chance increases that the availability of I/O pins
will be the limiting factor for your application.  The bootloader described
here [ZPL] can of course not avoid the use of some code space, but it does
avoid the use of I/O pins by using an often neglected pin for communication:
the /MCLR (Master CLear and Reset) pin. This may sound like black magic, but
the principle is very simple: the PC manipulates the reset pin so the
processor gets to run varying  amounts of time. The processor records the
length of time it was allowed to run, and when it gets to run again it
interprets a short previous run time as a 0 and a longer time as a 1.  Voila,
a communication channel. Modern PCs running Windows or Linux are not capable
of very precise timing in the microseconds region, so you might fear that
complicated hardware is involved. Luckily the ancient serial port with its
UART is perfect for this purpose. For modern hardware that has no serial port
available an USB->serial adapter can be used, which is in fact the way the
bootloader was developed.

------------------------------ End Quote ----------------------------

So as Wouter has so cogently pointed out, a bootloader certainly doesn't
require the use of the hardware UART (a very valuable hardware resource). In
fact with clever manipulation you can get the hardware bootloader interface
as small as zero pins.

BAJ

[Original message snipped]

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email KILLspamlistservKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2004\02\19@142423 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 06:14:47PM +0100, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> Byron A Jeff wrote :
>
> > Help me out with the 18F. I have a few issues.
>
> Hi.
>
> I pass on the Linux issues. When using a "industry standard"
> environment, there are plenty of tools ;-)

It's not just a Linux issue. What I'm pointing out is that the 16F family
has existed for nearly a decade. There's a lot of infrastructure both
Windows and non-Windows out there. As the new kid on the block 18F support
is slower coming along. I'm aware that everyone has access to the assembler,
and that C18 has some availability, but as usual I look at this from a hobby
prospective, and the 18F infrastructure doesn't seem to be as strong.

{Quote hidden}

But when you're getting started, the differences are what gets you. Having
specific examples that work for your actual target can go a long way in
showing a new 18F user how things are done.

{Quote hidden}

Well Fr. Thomas is back on the list. I'm not sure if he'll volunteer, but
I certainly hope that he does (hint, hint! ;-)

>
> And, even if you don't use Olins develop environment, you could
> always read and leard from his UART macros. They include automatic
> handling of AUSART/EUSART and 8/16 bit baud rate register at build
> time in his macros.

That's good.

>
> > Is there examples of how
> > to really utilize all the cool 18F features like the less segmented
> > memory space, branch instructions and the like?
>
> Not sure what you mean with examples. For specific instructions, there
> are always the data sheet (or the PIC18 Ref Manual with better examples
> for each instruction).  The less segmented memory isn't anything you
> actualy "use", it's just less things to worry about.

Not exactly. One still has to be aware of the access page, the SPF page, and
the fact that only certain instructions can access with full addresses.

But thanks for the reminder of the 18F Ref Manual. As always it'll be a
great read in terms of getting up to speed.

>
> > 4) Silicon issues. Not running at the full 40 Mhz, PLL
> > issues, and the like. I get the willies when the erratta sheet
> > states that operation faster than 4 Mhz is not guranteed.
>
> I think you should get a current status about this. Aren't most of
> this problems (at least in the smaller 18F-PICs) solved now ?

Here's the problem: the very fact that I have to check a current status is
a problem. I have 18F452s, 18F1330s, and upcoming 18F4230's. Depending on
how long ago I got them, their revision number, and the errata sheet that
applies, I may get different unexpected behaviors. Not good.

All I'm trying to say is that the instability is problematic. As a reasonably
experienced PIC developer, it probably wouldn't be as big as deal. But remember
that Wouter started this discussion as a introductory part. What happens when
a newbie gets a 18F part that has a quirk, starts to use it, but gets floored
by some glitch or another.

Stability and support are critical when getting started. That's why I think
that maybe the 16F family may be a gentler start.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2004\02\19@161143 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> A bootloader normally requires a hardware UART, and I'm
> unaware of any 8-pin device that has one.

Why? A UART can be bit-banged (done in software), or another way of
commuication can be used (check my WLoader and ZPL bootloaders).
[Reading further in the discussion I see this point has already been
made for me.]

But the real problem is that I don't know any 8-pin PICs that can write
to their own code space.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email spamBeGonelistservspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2004\02\19@175943 by tom_mcgahee

face picon face
My original PICUART.ASM was the direct result of my own
experience (and initial frustration) in trying to get the
uart to work properly. Once I had figured out all the
nitty gritty details I thought to myself "How is the
average person using the uart for the first time supposed to
know all this stuff?" Much of it was counter-intuitive, and
the Microchip manuals left as much out as they explained.
So I decided to share the fruits of my experience with
others by accumulating all the information into a combination
program/tutorial that covered even such details as the
required pc connector pinouts and wiring.

The effort appears to have been useful to many people, and
that gives me great joy.

As to updating PICUART, that is a good idea. There should be
a version that specifically covers interrupt driven routines.
If there are additional issues that need to be faced with some
of the newer PICs, then there should be a version that directly
addresses that issue, not just a tack-on to the existing
PICUART.

However, as many of you may recall, two years ago the school that
I had taught electronics at for 25 years closed. With its
closure I lost access to all the tools and equipment and parts
that belonged to the school that allowed me to DO all my electronics.

I did try to put aside some basic equipment so I could later
continue my own personal journey in the world of electronics.
Bill Cuono was kind enough to allow me to store the boxes with
this stuff in his basement since then. (In Paterson, NJ)

The year after the school closed I took a year off from teaching
and spent time in Canada working in a parish. All I took with
me was a portable computer and a bag with some clothes. Just
what I could carry on the plane. For that year I did no electronics
at all (except for some simple repair jobs, nothing more than
a screwdriver and soldering iron for tools).

Then I was assigned to Archbishop Shaw High School, Marrero, Louisiana.
I now teach courses in Multimedia, Web Site Publishing, and Advanced
Placement Computer Science using the Java language, and am technology
coordinator for the school.

When I got here I arrived with my portable computer and by bag of
clothes. Since then I have managed to scrounge up a few simple
tools, about $50 worth, enough to repair and build computer systems.

I recently emailed Bill Cuono and have asked him to ship me
some of the "stuff" that he is storing in his basement for me.
I have done a few little odd jobs and managed to make $200 to
pay for shipping costs. Soon I should have a power supply,
my prototyping unit, my ICD and two or three PICs, along with
an assortment of resistors and other parts. Tools include my
Dremel MotoTool, nibbler and some handpunches so I can fabricate
enclosures.

Soon I should be able to get back into building
circuits (many using PICs, of course!). Right now I am limited
to only being able to design, but much of the enjoyment is in
the actual building, testing, and improving.

It will take me a bit longer to scrounge up enough money to get
my analog oscilloscope shipped, but that is just a matter of time.

Once I am set up I hope that I might have the time and resources
to check out some of these 18 series PICs and see if the uarts
are easy to use, or need their own PICUART tutorial.

I look forward to contributing again to the PICLIST.

Fr. Tom McGahee





{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email TakeThisOuTlistservEraseMEspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2004\02\19@210143 by Lyle Hazelwood

flavicon
face
>-----Original Message-----
>From: pic microcontroller discussion list
>[RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of tom_mcgahee
>Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:58 PM
>To: PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [pic]: Is there an 8 pin pic with bootloader?

<SNIP SNIP>
>
>Once I am set up I hope that I might have the time and resources
>to check out some of these 18 series PICs and see if the uarts
>are easy to use, or need their own PICUART tutorial.
>
>I look forward to contributing again to the PICLIST.
>
>Fr. Tom McGahee

Welcome back father, you have been missed!
If you'd prefer to start with working code, I am currently
working with USART code for 18F that is interrupt driven and
has transmit and receive buffers. This code was given to me
in good working order by Tony Kubeck, and I'm just making a few
changes to better suit my own environment.
Let me know if you'd  like to see the code.

Lyle Hazelwood

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email EraseMElistservspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2004\02\20@012325 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
Any contribution of tools, equipment, spare chips, etc... Will be considered
support for the PICList and your name will be added to the list at
http://www.piclist.com/support

Fr. McGahee is on the hall of fame list so there is a link on the support
page to make a small donation to support his efforts via PayPal.


---
James.


{Original Message removed}

2004\02\20@043949 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>As to updating PICUART, that is a good idea. There should be
>a version that specifically covers interrupt driven routines.
>If there are additional issues that need to be faced with some
>of the newer PICs, then there should be a version that directly
>addresses that issue, not just a tack-on to the existing
>PICUART.

Fr. Tom
I have a version of your PICUART code which I modified to interrupt usage.
It is done in one of Olin's relocatable modules.

The interrupt receive routine uses a FIFO built around some of his macros,
and the send routine uses a separate FIFO to the receive one.

There is also some additional subroutines like send CR/LF and check to see
if the received FIFO has any characters.

If it is useful to you, I can release it.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu

2004\02\20@101731 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 06:34:17PM -0500, Victor Faria wrote:
> So when will your NCPI be out ???

Brad and I have a incomplete/unstable pre beta. It really needs some regression
testing done as I've added quite a bit of code for handling integers. But
we're both swamped right now so no real progress. Brad has the latest copy and
he just sent me an E-mail indicating that he'll be posting it soon. Once that
happens, I'll post a message to both the PICLIST and GNUPIC mailing lists
so that folks can have at it.

The other cirital component is a high level bytecode interpreter/simulator
so that one can do software/regression testing on the host without having
to load a real target. I started the project but didn't get it completely
stable yet. I'm current trying to be hands off while Brad takes a spin. Once
we've posted something, then I'll probably take a weekend and finish up
the simulator.

> and your right about wouter's ZPL
> I have been waiting to see if someone is going to offer a kit or ???

Wouter's Dwarf boards are a kit that utilizes ZPL.

But the real point is that it's so simple that you really don't need a
prepackaged system to get going. The cable is little more than a NPN transistor
with the collector connected to MCLR, base to the serial port TX via a 1K
resistor, and emitter grounded. MCLR has its normal pullup (Wouter suggests
1K). Takes 5 minutes to wire up on a breadboard. A permanant cable may take
10 minutes with a handful of Radio Shack (or similar electronic parts store)
parts.

The ZPL loader is written in Python. It's already cross platform and runs
under Windows, Linux, or anything else that runs python and has a serial port.
Wouter did it right and I'm both very thankful and very grateful for it.

> with a windows interface
> also does anyone know if there is a windows version  of the xwisp???

I think that Wouter addressed these issues in another message. If not you can
check the XWisp page here:

http://www.voti.nl/xwisp/index_1.html

But your questions raise another issue. Wouter is clearly a student of the
Art of Unix Programming, a boot written by Eric S. Raymond. One of the
Rules is the Rule of Separation: separate policy from mechanism, interface
from functionality. Wouter has done this. Xwisp runs under Windows and it
has a perfectly functional command line interface for doing the simple
task that it exist for: load a hex file into a PIC. Wouter has even added
a scriptable GUI interface for adding buttons and the like. But by having
a decoupled interface, one can write or use a different interface for
using Xwisp, or can script Xwisp as required.

You can read more about Eric's point here:

http://library.n0i.net/linux-unix/art-unix-programming/ch01s06.html#id2877777

BAJ

[Original snipped]

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

2004\02\20@135706 by Rob Hamerling

flavicon
face
Byron A Jeff wrote:

> The ZPL loader is written in Python. It's already cross platform and runs
> under Windows, Linux, or anything else that runs python and has a serial port.

There is a Python for my platform (PC + OS/2), and my system has serial
ports, nevertheless I cannot use XWisp or ZPL!!! A platform dependent
Python extension seems to be required to let it talk to a serial port.
Please tell me where I can find this extension for OS/2?

Regards, Rob.

--
Rob Hamerling, Vianen, NL phone +31-347-322822
homepage: http://www.robh.nl/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTspamspammitvma.mit.edu

2004\02\20@151437 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Rob Hamerling wrote :

> Byron A Jeff wrote:
>
> > The ZPL loader is written in Python. It's already cross
> > platform and runs under Windows, Linux, or anything else
> > that runs python and has a serial port.
>
> There is a Python for my platform (PC + OS/2), and my system
> has serial ports, nevertheless I cannot use XWisp or ZPL!!!
> A platform dependent Python extension seems to be required to
> let it talk to a serial port. Please tell me where I can find this
> extension for OS/2?

Hi.
IMHO, a simple command line tool (just as ZPL and XWisp are)
written in ANSI compliant C, would have as much cross
plattform compatibility as ZPL and XWisp has today.
In both cases I'd expect *some* platform dependant code
anyway. And I'd expect C compilers to be available on more
platforms then Python, but I might very well be wrong here.

And just getting rid of those several thousands of files
installed with the Python kit, would be nice.

But, as usual, it's always easy to have opinions on
others work, right ? :-) :-)

Have a nice weekend !

Jan-Erik.



{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu

2004\02\20@153106 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 07:56:18PM +0100, Rob Hamerling wrote:
> Byron A Jeff wrote:
>
> >The ZPL loader is written in Python. It's already cross platform and runs
> >under Windows, Linux, or anything else that runs python and has a serial
> >port.
>
> There is a Python for my platform (PC + OS/2), and my system has serial
> ports, nevertheless I cannot use XWisp or ZPL!!! A platform dependent
> Python extension seems to be required to let it talk to a serial port.
> Please tell me where I can find this extension for OS/2?

It doesn't seem to exist. But someone has started another project in a
similar vein: http://www.taupro.com/Downloads/pyserial.html

Maybe a wedge driver can be written to interface the standard pyserial
on Sourceforce to this code. That should be enough to get things going.

BAJ

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-requestSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

2004\02\20@161640 by Rob Hamerling

flavicon
face
BAJ
>>>The ZPL loader is written in Python. It's already cross platform and runs
>>>under Windows, Linux, or anything else that runs python and has a serial
>>>port.

[Rob]
>>There is a Python for my platform (PC + OS/2), and my system has serial
>>ports, nevertheless I cannot use XWisp or ZPL!!! A platform dependent
>>Python extension seems to be required to let it talk to a serial port.
>>Please tell me where I can find this extension for OS/2?
>

[BAJ]
> It doesn't seem to exist. But someone has started another project in a
> similar vein: http://www.taupro.com/Downloads/pyserial.html

Thanks for the pointer! It is pretty old stuff. I don't know if I can
(and want) to give it a second chance. Since my search wasn't as good as
yours, I wrote my own (OS/2) versions of Xwisp and Zpl in C, so the urge
is not so high for me.

Regards, Rob.


--
Rob Hamerling, Vianen, NL phone +31-347-322822
homepage: http://www.robh.nl/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestSTOPspamspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu

2004\02\20@161849 by Rob Hamerling

flavicon
face
Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:

> IMHO, a simple command line tool (just as ZPL and XWisp are)
> written in ANSI compliant C, would have as much cross
> plattform compatibility as ZPL and XWisp has today.
> In both cases I'd expect *some* platform dependant code
> anyway. And I'd expect C compilers to be available on more
> platforms then Python, but I might very well be wrong here.

> And just getting rid of those several thousands of files
> installed with the Python kit, would be nice.

Pickup the Xwisp2 and Zpl2 sources and go ahead, please!

> But, as usual, it's always easy to have opinions on
> others work, right ? :-) :-)

Right!

Regards, Rob.

--
Rob Hamerling, Vianen, NL phone +31-347-322822
homepage: http://www.robh.nl/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu

2004\02\20@174711 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> IMHO, a simple command line tool (just as ZPL and XWisp are)
> written in ANSI compliant C, would have as much cross
> plattform compatibility as ZPL and XWisp has today.

Yeah, but C is a pain to write complex programs. Trust me, I know :(

> In both cases I'd expect *some* platform dependant code
> anyway.

For XWisp I used a library that hides the Windows/Linux/Python-on-Java
details. I am not aware of any such library in C. And consider: instead
of a Python program the user of a forgein OS would get a C file and have
to compile that, probably after installing a C compiler first. I am not
sure that is any better than having to install the Python distribution.

But Rob seems to be on your side and has written (almost) exactly what
you want.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2004 , 2005 only
- Today
- New search...