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'[ot]: alright here an off topic for you...'
2001\08\08@182116 by rad0

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I saw something that I don't actually believe, a new one that is, and I
thought I'd
put it to the sharpest group I know of....


I was on a plane, and the stewardess had a silverware spoon resting in the

neck of a champagne bottle, -- she claimed it kept the fiz in the
champagne....

well, is there any basis what so ever, for this??


It sounds like a wives tale to me -- but hey, I can't explain a magnet
either....


next time you're flying check if they do this...wouldn't it be a hoot if
a very unsophisticated group of people discovered a new principle...

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2001\08\08@185741 by Pedro Drummond

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It happens not only on airplanes. You can test this right in your
refrigerator.
BTW the spoon doesn't need to be silver, either... (traveling first class,
uh ?)
I'll let someone else explain this :-)


{Original Message removed}

2001\08\08@185750 by Brent Brown

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{Quote hidden}

I've seen that before too, and laughed. Can't see any obvoius
scientific principle working here. Can't think of any non-obvious
reasons either. If you go to the trouble of putting a spoon in it why
not just put the lid back on?

How about people who squeeze in the sides of the coke bottle
before putting the lid back on and returning it to the fridge? Doesn't
this mean that more CO2 bubbles need to escape the liquid and
expand the bottle to it's original size and shape before the pressure
balances and no more bubble are released? I guess if the bottle did
actually stay squashed then the air volume would be less and less
fizzy would escape to balance the pressure.

Just another two of lifes little mysteries, now back to work...

Brent Brown
Electronic Design Solutions
16 English Street
Hamilton, New Zealand
Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069
Mobile/text: 025 334 069
eMail:  .....brent.brownKILLspamspam@spam@clear.net.nz

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2001\08\08@190619 by Tony Nixon

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Brent Brown wrote:
>
> > I saw something that I don't actually believe, a new one that is, and I
> > thought I'd
> > put it to the sharpest group I know of....
> >
> >
> > I was on a plane, and the stewardess had a silverware spoon resting in the
> >
> > neck of a champagne bottle, -- she claimed it kept the fiz in the
> > champagne....
> >
> > well, is there any basis what so ever, for this??
> >
> >
> > It sounds like a wives tale to me -- but hey, I can't explain a magnet
> > either....


What about when you drop a can of unopened beer or whatever. Put a dent
in the side of the can to stop it fizzing before you open it.

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2001\08\08@191029 by Dale Botkin

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On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Brent Brown wrote:

> > I was on a plane, and the stewardess had a silverware spoon resting in the
> >
> > neck of a champagne bottle, -- she claimed it kept the fiz in the
> > champagne....
> >
> > well, is there any basis what so ever, for this??
>
> I've seen that before too, and laughed. Can't see any obvoius
> scientific principle working here. Can't think of any non-obvious
> reasons either. If you go to the trouble of putting a spoon in it why
> not just put the lid back on?

Hmmm.  I would guess that, unless the handle of the spoon was a VERY snug
fit in the neck of the bottle <grin>, it's not doing anything for you --
but I've been wrong before.  Besides, if you have to worry about the
chnpagne going flat, you're simply not drinking it quickly enough,
wouldn't you agree?  ;)

I can see how this might have started:

Engineer: "You have to stick something in the neck of that bottle to keep
the fizz in, or the champagne will go flat."

Blonde: "Oh, good idea!" (drops in spoon)...

Engineer: "Umm, OK, whatever.  Say, I think I dropped my contact lens
somewhere on this couch, care to help me look?"

> How about people who squeeze in the sides of the coke bottle
> before putting the lid back on and returning it to the fridge? Doesn't
> this mean that more CO2 bubbles need to escape the liquid and
> expand the bottle to it's original size and shape before the pressure
> balances and no more bubble are released? I guess if the bottle did
> actually stay squashed then the air volume would be less and less
> fizzy would escape to balance the pressure.

I *know* this is wrong.  My wife is convinced she needs to squeeze the
bottle to expel excess air.  Great idea for non-carbonated stuff (reduces
oxidization), lousy idea for carbonated.

Dale
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On my desk I have a workstation...

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2001\08\08@191654 by rad0

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent Brown" <@spam@brent.brownKILLspamspamCLEAR.NET.NZ>
To: <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ot]: alright here an off topic for you...


> > I saw something that I don't actually believe, a new one that is, and I
> > thought I'd
> > put it to the sharpest group I know of....
> >
> >
> > I was on a plane, and the stewardess had a silverware spoon resting in
the
{Quote hidden}

Well, well.  Now that's a very good point.  You're dismissed--you're the
weakest link...!!!

But, yeah....I hadn't thought of that...I was looking for the magical
mystical tour....




{Quote hidden}

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2001\08\08@194346 by alice campbell

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I suspect that the presence of the spoon cuts down on the exchange of air between the neck of the bottle and the outside world.  It does not, however, eliminate it as a cork would.  I rate this about as high as my DH putting leftover pizza back in the fridge in its cardboard box, instead of a plastic container, then complaining that the leftover pizza has dried out.

alice

{Quote hidden}

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2001\08\08@200250 by rad0

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well, I agree...in general...

but, the atmosphere in an aircraft at altitude is about 7 or 8 thousand
feet altitude... or on top of a mountain, in general

and,

this would seem to me to make the champagne go flat quicker than normal,
(less partial pressure, etc)
and wives tail or not, if this is working, if it actually works, something
and I don't know what, is going on here....

I don't know if it works, either....but, I'm going to check it out,
somewhat....








{Original Message removed}

2001\08\08@202616 by Larry Williams
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About ten years ago, I sprang my idea, on my wife and some friends, of a pump to repressurize the bottle of soda after opening to keep the fiz in.  They all laughed at the idea and convinced me it would never sell.  Guess what, less than a year later, I saw an ad on tv for just what I told them about. They don't laugh at my ideas now.  I bought one at a yard sale and works great.  A three liter coke, half full, will last a couple of weeks or so and not lose the fizz.
> > How about people who squeeze in the sides of the coke bottle
> > before putting the lid back on and returning it to the fridge? Doesn't

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2001\08\08@203030 by Andrew Hooper

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The answer to this question is pretty simple, I thought long and hard about
it
when I saw my father do it to a bottle of beer in the 70's.

The neck of the bottle is basically a funnel and was designed to allow you
to
pour the fluid content out of the bottle with minimal restriction while also
being able to seal the bottle with a cap or cork.

Now look at your basic weather system, You have areas of high and low
pressure inside by the difference of air pressures.

Firstly you will not get a seal as good as the original cork as it usually
swells
in the neck, for this reason when most are extracted they expand and you
cant get them back in without getting bits of cork in the drink, same
applies
with bottles of beer, getting the cap albeit a screw cap or pressed fit you
will not get a great seal, Also you have to pull it out to pour another
glass.
and this would mean you need to reseal it after the glass is poured.

So, Put a spoon in the neck of the bottle. Makes for easy access to the
liquid contained within.

Now for the tricky part...

The spoon being Silver or Stainless.. Heck anything metal would work but
it so happens that the spoon has a head that will not allow it to slip down
through
the hole as a knife would, Also the handle is just the correct length so
that
it will not break the surface tension of the liquid.

Now we all know that a Cold Front in weather patterns will push against
a warm front, keeping this in mind and taking into account that the metal
item in the neck of the bottle will have a colder surface than the rest of
the bottle or liquid you will see that also the air in the neck will be
colder
and with the neck being tapered this cold air will form a type of PLUG
and retard the expansion of the gasses being expelled by the liquid.

So what you have is an Invisible Cork, Yes you will still loose some
of the gas but certainly not as much as you would if there was nothing in
the neck.

So your now on the airplane with an expensive bottle of bubbly sipping
away and not having to wrestle with the cork every time you want a drink
and maintaining an acceptable amount of lost bubbles.

Well that's my Theory, If anyone want me to research the fact and write
a formal paper on the subject I would be glad to :)

Regards
Andrew Hooper

{Original Message removed}

2001\08\08@204324 by Larry Williams

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How many bottles of champagne did you consume to come to this conclusion?  :)
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2001\08\08@210447 by Barry Gershenfeld

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>taking into account that the metal
>item in the neck of the bottle will have a colder surface than the rest of
>the bottle or liquid

Bzzt.

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2001\08\08@212345 by alice campbell

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Here's what puzzles me about this:  the partial pressure of CO2 in the atmosphere is 0.5%.  The partial pressure CO2 in Compressed ordinary air is also 0.5%.  Nitrogen is not particularly soluble in water, so the partial pressure of nitrogen in soda is close to nothing.  CO2 is very soluble in water, and carbonated beverages have extra added.  So the partial pressure gradient of nitrogen is From the air To the beverage, but the partial pressure of CO2 is From the beverage To the atmosphere in the container.  Since the proportions of CO2 and N2 don't change, the gradient doesnt change, either.  This suggests that more molecules of CO2 will evaporate from the beverage in the higher-pressure container than would occur under lower pressure.  Likewise, at high altitudes, the Total pressure is lower, but the proportions of CO2 and N2 remain the same.  So the gas exchange rate decreases.  This is consistent with the fact that its easier to breathe at lower elevations than higher elevations, because, for a the same b
lend of air, how many molecules are in a cubic foot of gas determines the gas exchange rate, not the pressure per se.

alice

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2001\08\08@213634 by Heinz Czychun

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       I think we're all looking down the wrong rabbit hole.

       My guess it has less to do with physical science, and more to
do with human nature.

       The spoon doesn't make the fizz last longer it ensures the
contents of the bottle is used faster. This by either making it
easier to identify an already opened bottle, or perhaps making it
more difficult to loose track of the bottle by preventing it being
returned to the second shelf of the cart. This way it's more likely
to get used up before another is opened ?????

;-).....-)......)....

just my 2¢ worth,
Heinz

At 5:21 PM -0500 8/8/01, rad0 wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\08\08@222706 by Mike Kendall

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Along the same lines....I knew a person who had previously owned a wine
store in the San Francisco area, so he was chocked full of wine knowledge.
If you buy a bottle of marbles and fill the partially used bottle with
marbles untill the cork just fits back into it...you get the same effect.
The bottle will self pressurize the very small amount of air and retain it's
flavor better (with wine) and carbonation in other items.  No pressure pump
needed then at all, just a bag of marbles.
Mike
{Original Message removed}

2001\08\09@065409 by Roman Black

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Maybe the spoon in the bottle neck acts as
a decent heatsink, which would warm the inside
of the bottle neck very well. Assuming the spoon
doesn't touch the cold liquid, there would be a
pocket of warm air in the neck, and the cooler
vapours directly above the liquid would be trapped
there... :o)
-Roman


Heinz Czychun wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\08\12@142538 by Andrew Warren

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rad0 <EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> I was on a plane, and the stewardess had a silverware spoon
> resting in the neck of a champagne bottle, -- she claimed it kept
> the fiz in the champagne....
>
> well, is there any basis what so ever, for this??

   Two minutes spent searching the web produced these:

   www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/lunchcalc/spoon/spoon/spoon.html
   http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_121.html

   -Andy


=== Andrew Warren --- @spam@aiw@spam@spamspam_OUTcypress.com
=== IPD Systems Engineering, CYSD
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

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