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'[ee]: pc board traces got erased too?'
2001\07\13@095121 by Andy N1YEW

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why would my traces get erased on a home etched board?  i use fecl3 the radioshack stuff.

tnx,
andy

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2001\07\13@123605 by Lawrence Lile

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Well, if you didn't use a very good etch resist pen, your traces would get
etched off in an etch bath.  The pens they sell at Radio Shark are just
laundry marking pens.  Get yourself a Lumocolor #313 red at an art store,
they are indestructible.
Or better yet, get a real photetch kit from http://www.kepro.com   and go all the
way.

Your etch time will also be something you must watch.  Too much etch time
will erase ANY photoetch.

Try to get away from ferric chloride - it's bad for the fishies.  There is
another compund that is a dry powder (Ammonium somethingate?  Help me out
here guys)  that is less toxic.

-- Lawrence


{Original Message removed}

2001\07\13@124455 by Dan Larson

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On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:35:16 -0500, Lawrence Lile wrote:

>Well, if you didn't use a very good etch resist pen, your traces would get
>etched off in an etch bath.  The pens they sell at Radio Shark are just
>laundry marking pens.  Get yourself a Lumocolor #313 red at an art store,
>they are indestructible.
>Or better yet, get a real photetch kit from http://www.kepro.com   and go all the
>way.
>

Or, if you wish to use a positive photo resist process, try

http://www.injectorall.com

They sell positive coated boards through Digi-Key, but you have to get the
chemicals from them because Digi-Key doesn't like hazzardous materials.
If you buy a nice stock of chemicals, then you can order a few boards from
Digi-Key as needed with your normal parts orders. I have used this process
and I am fairly pleased with the results using a laser printer and
transparencies, printed from Eagle CAD.


>Your etch time will also be something you must watch.  Too much etch time
>will erase ANY photoetch.

Yup!, It'll will etch right under the resist through the sides if you give
it timel. I had this happen when I let me etchant get weak and had to leave
the board in too long to finish etching the large areas of copper. The thin
traces just went away.

>
>Try to get away from ferric chloride - it's bad for the fishies.  There is
>another compund that is a dry powder (Ammonium somethingate?  Help me out
>here guys)  that is less toxic.
>

Sodium Persulfate and Amonium Persulfate are the "alternative" etchants.

Dan

>-- Lawrence
>
>
>{Original Message removed}

2001\07\13@141829 by mike

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On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:38:44 -0400, you wrote:

>why would my traces get erased on a home etched board?  i use fecl3 the radioshack stuff.
Poor resist.
For lots of info on making good quality homebrew PCBs : http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~wwl/pcbs.html

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2001\07\15@233006 by Tony Nixon

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Andy N1YEW wrote:
>
> why would my traces get erased on a home etched board?  i use fecl3 the radioshack stuff.


Bad etch pens, bad PCB preperation, warming the etchant too much, too
long in the solution, too much sloshing around, too many air bubbles,
etchant too strong....

This is a simple outline of what I do.


Create a mirror image of the PCB design.
Cut the PCB to size.
Polish it with "Brasso" and wipe with turpentine.
Tape the design on the PCB and use it as a drill guide.
Wash the PCB in detergent untill the water does not "bead" on the
surface.
Draw the artwork using the predrilled holes as a guide.
I use a Dalo pen for traces. I have two pens. One with a dull edge that
I use to 'dab' pads onto holes and draw thick traces, and one with a
sharp edge that I keep specially for thin traces.

I use Ferric Chloride for the etchant because it is cheap and has a
l-o-n-g shelf life. My old etchant has nice bright green copper crystals
growing out the sludge on the tank bottom. It's been there for years and
still works fine even on cold days. (12'C and the like)

I don't use bubble etchers, heaters and the like. I place insulated
telephone wire standoffs on each PCB corner and place the PCB track side
down in the etchant. Gavity does the work, the etch process is quick,
the traces have a sharp edge and the etchant stays clean. Just go off
and have a cup of coffee, beer or whatever, and when you come back the
board will be ready.

The board is then rinsed under cold water and the etch pen removed with
turpentine. To protect the bright finish, and if I want to use the board
for a long time, I spray it with Electrolube clear laquer.

http://www.bubblesoftonline.com/projects/pcb.html

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Best regards

Tony

mICros
http://www.bubblesoftonline.com
spam_OUTsalesTakeThisOuTspambubblesoftonline.com

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2001\07\16@091931 by Lawrence Lile

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> Ammonium persulphate? Mouser sells it - I gather that once mixed shelf
> life is short. How to properly dispose of it I don't know.
>

I believe it is OK just to dump it in the drain.  I think there was a long
thread on this one time...
Ferric chloride definitely does not belong in the city sewers, must be
disposed of as haz waste.

> Recent thread discussed rejuvenating ferric chloride by electroplating
> out the Cu - I mentioned this to a chemically adept acquaintance, he
> seems to think it's do-able.
>

Ya, it is possible, and also possible to produce a lot of hydrogen gas
(boooom!).  Be careful.  Ferric chloride is really pretty cheap.  I think
this possibility was considered in the long ambling thread on this subject.
Personnally, I don't see the need.

> regards, Jack
>

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2001\07\16@195616 by Kathy Quinlan

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Ammonium persulphate does not have a short shelf life (unless 2 years is
short) I had some that worked over 2 years, agreed the sq inches etched was
not excessive, maybe a100 or so with about gallon of solution, only last
year did I have to mix some more powder in (apron 3.5 years later)

Regards,

Kat.

{Original Message removed}

2001\07\17@054239 by Octavio P Nogueira

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Do you know how much power to put in a gallon of pure
water? Is this the same for sodium persulphate?

Friendly Regards

Octavio Nogueira
===================================================
nogueiraspamKILLspampropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
ProPic tools - low cost PIC programmer and emulator
http://www.propic2.com
===================================================

{Original Message removed}

2001\07\17@073252 by Kathy Quinlan

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I mix mine as per the label on the container, I think it was 1kg per 5L :o)

Regards,

Kat.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Octavio P Nogueira" <.....octaviopnogueiraKILLspamspam.....UOL.COM.BR>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ee]: pc board traces got erased too?


{Quote hidden}

shelf
> > > > life is short. How to properly dispose of it I don't know.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I believe it is OK just to dump it in the drain.  I think there was a
> long
> > > thread on this one time...
> > > Ferric chloride definitely does not belong in the city sewers, must be
> > > disposed of as haz waste.
> > >
> > > > Recent thread discussed rejuvenating ferric chloride by
electroplating
{Quote hidden}

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