Searching \ for '[TECH] Wind Speed/Direction 'sensor' source.' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/io/sensors.htm?key=sensor
Search entire site for: 'Wind Speed/Direction 'sensor' source.'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[TECH] Wind Speed/Direction 'sensor' source.'
2011\03\23@201644 by Forrest W Christian

flavicon
face
I'm trying to locate an ongoing source for various weather instruments - specifically a good anemometer and wind direction sensor. (you know, the little wind cup thingy).  Preferrably pipe mount.

And if the same source had things like rain and similar sensors, that would be great also.   I'm not looking for somewhere to buy one or two - more somewhere I can buy a fairly large quantity (dozens or hundreds) on an ongoing basis.

Cost is fairly important on this application - the reason these have not been deployed so far is that remote-readable wind sensors tend to be very expensive.  We're trying to get the price down.

Any ideas where I might find a source for these items?

-forres

2011\03\23@210524 by RussellMc

face picon face
> I'm trying to locate an ongoing source for various weather instruments -
> specifically a good anemometer and wind direction sensor. (you know, the
> little wind cup thingy).  Preferrably pipe mount.
>

More anon, but Gargoyle read your mind popup ads offers

          http://www.inspeed.com/anemometers/default.asp

How does that match "inexpensive" in your case?


    Russell

2011\03\23@223836 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
On 3/23/2011 6:04 PM, RussellMc wrote:
>> I'm trying to locate an ongoing source for various weather instruments -
>> specifically a good anemometer and wind direction sensor. (you know, the
>> little wind cup thingy).  Preferrably pipe mount.
>>
> More anon, but Gargoyle read your mind popup ads offers
>
>             http://www.inspeed.com/anemometers/default.asp
>
> How does that match "inexpensive" in your case?
>
>
>       Russell
>
Yes, my client has tested them for 2 years now.  We mount ours on a gimbal (?), so that it always
stays level when the tracking PV array moves.

It turns out that here in Arizona you are required to measure the wind speed and present a minimal load for the tracker, otherwise the footer (concrete foundation) requirements are enormous. The  county engineer measures our wind device and watches the shutdown before licensing the site.

--Bob

2011\03\23@225651 by RussellMc

face picon face
> Yes, my client has tested them for 2 years now.  We mount ours on a
> gimbal (?), so that it always
> stays level when the tracking PV array moves.

> It turns out that here in Arizona you are required to measure the wind
> speed and present a minimal load for the tracker, otherwise the footer
> (concrete foundation) requirements are enormous. The  county engineer
> measures our wind device and watches the shutdown before licensing the
> site.

I assume that the minimal load is when the wind is over a certain speed.

F ~= 0.5 x D x A x Cd x V^2

F  force, Newton
A area, m^2  (flat plate equivalent projected with Cd=1)
D air density kg/m^3
V velocity m/s
Cd  drag coefficient - assume unity.


Or ~~ V^2.A/16  kg/m^2

eg 30 m/s ~~ 60mph ~= 50 kg/m^2

Add a moment arm of a metre or few and that can get severe




     Russell

2011\03\24@044748 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
On 24/03/2011 00:18, Forrest W Christian wrote:
> I'm trying to locate an ongoing source for various weather instruments -
> specifically a good anemometer and wind direction sensor. (you know, the
> little wind cup thingy).  Preferrably pipe mount.
>
> And if the same source had things like rain and similar sensors, that
> would be great also.   I'm not looking for somewhere to buy one or two -
> more somewhere I can buy a fairly large quantity (dozens or hundreds) on
> an ongoing basis.
>
> Cost is fairly important on this application - the reason these have not
> been deployed so far is that remote-readable wind sensors tend to be
> very expensive.  We're trying to get the price down.
>
> Any ideas where I might find a source for these items?
>
> -forrest
I saw a design using 4 x Ultrasonic transducers to measure speed and direction.

connected to a PIC to time the differential speed each way

2011\03\24@080719 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
Michael Watterson wrote:
> I saw a design using 4 x Ultrasonic transducers to measure speed and
> direction.

I know someone who built one of those a bunch of years ago and used a PIC to
produce the pulses, measured the times, and derive the wind speed and
direction.

I pointed out to him that it could be done with just three sensors before he
built it, but said he didn't want to do the "hard math".  Yes, I guess you'd
have to have passed high school geometry to figure it out.  It is well
within the capabilities of even a small PIC to do that.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000

2011\03\24@084847 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
On 24/03/2011 12:07, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Michael Watterson wrote:
>> I saw a design using 4 x Ultrasonic transducers to measure speed and
>> direction.
> I know someone who built one of those a bunch of years ago and used a PIC to
> produce the pulses, measured the times, and derive the wind speed and
> direction.
>
> I pointed out to him that it could be done with just three sensors before he
> built it, but said he didn't want to do the "hard math".  Yes, I guess you'd
> have to have passed high school geometry to figure it out.  It is well
> within the capabilities of even a small PIC to do that.

True. It's not even hard maths.

However the transducers are usually sold in pairs. A commercial one would want to use only 3

2011\03\24@093004 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
Michael Watterson wrote:
> True. It's not even hard maths.

Yes, that was my point.  By the way, math is a subject so has no plural.
There is no such thing as "maths", even though you see that more and more
lately.

> However the transducers are usually sold in pairs. A commercial one
> would want to use only 3.

To get accurate readings you have to measure the propagation delay both ways
along any path.  This allows you to correct for sound speed change due to
pressure and humidity.  Depending on the transducers, that either means you
have to have a transmitter/receiver pair at each of the three points, or one
combo transducer that can work as both.  Of course if this is a commercial
product, you'd be buying 100s, so whether they come in pairs or not doesn't
matter.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000

2011\03\24@100535 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
On 24/03/2011 13:30, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Yes, that was my point.  By the way, math is a subject so has no plural.
> There is no such thing as "maths", even though you see that more and more
> lately.

Maybe in US English
Math = ? not used here much
Maths = Mathematics Definitely the normal abbreviation for over 50 years.

Lego of course is always ever been Lego here. But I see often called Legos in USA.

I suppose someone has a US-British-Australian-SouthAfrican-HibernoEnglish  cross reference somewhere.
Queue = Tail
Bonnet = hood
Exhaust = Muffler
Silencer = Muffler
Boot = Trunk
Fortnight = Two weeks
Maths = Math
11/9 = 911
Crisp = chip
Chip = Bag of French fries
Chips = French Fries
Fish Supper = French Fries and filet of battered fish
Pastie =??? (Battered potato, veg and meat, not a Cornish Pastie as that has different innards and is pastry case)
French Fry= Macdonals chips
Bun = Cup cake, Muffin
Muffin at Bakery = English muffin
Muffin in coffee shop = US Muffin
Whistle Blower = Spy / Traitor
Jam = Jelly
Jelly = ?
Biscuit = Cookie
Chocolates = Candies?
Candy Floss = Cotton Candy?
Lorry = Truck
4x4 = SUV
of, the = often missing in US English.
Colour = Color
Analogue = Analog
Program = Program (computers)
Programme = Program (i.e. TV Guide, Theatre info)
Theatre = Theater (only a place with plays here, but might mean Cinema in USA?)
Centre = Center
Jeweller = Jeweler
Non-National = Alien  (Irish one. Called Foreigner in UK?)
Rubber = Eraser of pencil marks



2011\03\24@100943 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
On 24/03/2011 13:30, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Of course if this is a commercial
> product, you'd be buying 100s, so whether they come in pairs or not doesn't
> matter.

Hmm. If it was commercial I'd be happier to have to buy 10,000s And have it sold in supermarkets. 315MHz link USA, 433MHz link Europe to bring the info indoor, with the outdoor bit measuring shade temp, humidity and sunlight (sort of) via its solar charger.

I've seen cheapish WX stations, but they seem to go for the inferior 3 x cups anemometer and wind vane.

2011\03\24@102937 by jim

flavicon
face

Michael,

For a no moving part anneometer, you could use a piece of technology
from the automotive industry.
That would be the Hot Wire Mass Air Flow Sensor used on many cars and
trucks today.  It is basically  two wires that are heated via an electric current.  One of them is
shielded from the airflow.   The other is directly in the path of the airflow.  The air moving past
it cools it down.  Circuitry
connected to the sensor then varies the current to bring it's
temperature back to where it was before  the air started cooling it down.  This current then represents the mass
of air flowing across the wire  and into the engine.  This could be recalibrated to indicate windspeed
instead of air mass, thereby
providing you with a no moving part wind speed sensor.  If this is
mounted on an axle, and in  conjunction with a wind vane and some LED's and photoreceptors, you can
have a purely electronic windspeed
and direction indicator.  Just a thought.

Regards,

Jim

> ---{Original Message removed}

2011\03\24@105131 by Adam Field

flavicon
face
>  Michael,
>
>  For a no moving part anneometer, you could use a piece of technology
> from the automotive industry.
>  That would be the Hot Wire Mass Air Flow Sensor used on many cars and
> trucks today.  It is basically
>  two wires that are heated via an electric current.  One of them is
> shielded from the airflow.
>  The other is directly in the path of the airflow.  The air moving past
> it cools it down.  Circuitry
>  connected to the sensor then varies the current to bring it's
> temperature back to where it was before
>  the air started cooling it down.  This current then represents the mass
> of air flowing across the wire
>  and into the engine.

Wandering slightly OT but still in the realm of measuring air properties...

That's interesting. The MAF on my newer model Nissan has a diode that
can be plainly seen. It may have the wires you describe further into
the sensor. The diode I assume is measuring the intake temperature.

Is the two wire method assuming the reference wire is at the outside
air ambient temperature? Otherwise, you have two unknowns cooling the
wire, the air flow rate and the temperature (and pressure) of that
air.

2011\03\24@111005 by Kerry Wentworth

flavicon
face
Remember, it's not measuring air speed, but air mass, which is basically speed*pressure.  And I'm sure it measures the intake temperature.

Kerry


Adam Field wrote:
{Quote hidden}

-- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 267.11.13 - Release Date: 10/6/05

2011\03\24@112129 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
Adam Field wrote:
> Is the two wire method assuming the reference wire is at the outside
> air ambient temperature? Otherwise, you have two unknowns cooling the
> wire, the air flow rate and the temperature (and pressure) of that
> air.

You can look up "hot wire anemometer".  These are existing devices but known
to not be too accurate.  For example, typhoon Paka in the Pacific in 1997
was first thought to have beat the previous land wind speed record of 231
miles/hour on Mt Washington in 1934.  The Paka measurement was made with a
hot wire anemometer, and was later determined not to have reliably indicated
a record breaking speed.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000

2011\03\24@112132 by Vic Fraenckel

picon face
There is discussion of the ultrasonic wind sensor that has been mentioned here at Arduino Forum > General > Exhibition > Ultrasonic wind sensor
post here:

http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1283073954

The posting is fairly new - 08/29/10

Vic

Victor Fraenckel
KC2GUI
windswaytoo ATSIGN gmail DOT com

2011\03\24@113845 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face


On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:46 +0000, "Michael Watterson" <spam_OUTmikeTakeThisOuTspamradioway.org>
wrote:

> I saw a design using 4 x Ultrasonic transducers to measure speed and
> direction.
>
> connected to a PIC to time the differential speed each way.


The thing to watch out for with clever methods like that is what happens
when rain and snow come down. Stephen Woodward did a cute vector
anemometer with three hot transistors. It was such a great idea I built
one. It worked well in good weather.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

-- http://www.fastmail.fm - IMAP accessible web-mail

2011\03\24@115853 by jim

flavicon
face

Yes, this is correct.  But that is why I added the qualifier that the
unit could be recalibrated to measure speed and not mass.

Regards,

Jim

> ---{Original Message removed}

2011\03\24@122438 by Michael Rigby-Jones

flavicon
face


{Quote hidden}

Typically you have a heated sensor and an unheated sensor.  The control system keeps temperature of the heated sensor a fixed amount above the unheated one, so you automatically correct for air temperature.

Regards

Mike

=======================================================================
This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The
information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by
law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must
not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any
person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have
received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use,
forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.
No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or
services.
=======================================================================

2011\03\24@131241 by RussellMc

face picon face
On 25 March 2011 03:05, Michael Watterson <.....mikeKILLspamspam.....radioway.org> wrote:
> On 24/03/2011 13:30, Olin Lathrop wrote:
>> Yes, that was my point.  By the way, math is a subject so has no plural.
>> There is no such thing as "maths", even though you see that more and more
>> lately.

> Maybe in US English
> Math = ? not used here much
> Maths = Mathematics Definitely the normal abbreviation for over 50 years.

As one probably has "Mathematics" but not "Mathematic" in US and UK
system, Olin's versions suggests that

          Math = Mathematics

as opposed to the incorrect

         Maths = Mathematic.

Such interesting results do occur, but perhaps not here?

We antipodeans also use 'maths' and not 'math'. The latter has never
been used here afaik, and would instantly identify you as a furriner.


   R


           Russell

2011\03\24@132752 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
RussellMc wrote:
> We antipodeans also use 'maths' and not 'math'. The latter has never
> been used here afaik, and would instantly identify you as a furriner.

So you would actually say "I have to do my maths homework now."?  That would
definitely be wrong here.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000

2011\03\24@135840 by Paul Hutchinson

picon face
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu on Behalf Of Forrest W Christian
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:18 PM
>
> I'm trying to locate an ongoing source for various weather instruments -
> specifically a good anemometer and wind direction sensor. (you know, the
> little wind cup thingy).  Preferrably pipe mount.
<snip>

http://www.maximum-commercial.com/

Paul Hutch

2011\03\24@140510 by Michael Rigby-Jones

flavicon
face


> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bouncesspamspam_OUTmit.edu [@spam@piclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu] On
Behalf
> Of Olin Lathrop
> Sent: 24 March 2011 17:28
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [TECH] Wind Speed/Direction 'sensor' source.
>
> RussellMc wrote:
> > We antipodeans also use 'maths' and not 'math'. The latter has never
> > been used here afaik, and would instantly identify you as a
furriner.
>
> So you would actually say "I have to do my maths homework now."?  That
> would
> definitely be wrong here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Math_%28disambiguation%29


We have had 'maths' lessons and 'maths' exams for as long as I remember
in the UK.  It seems to be one of the few Americanisms that has not been
adopted.

Mike

=======================================================================
This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The
information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by
law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must
not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any
person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have
received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use,
forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.
No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or
services.
=======================================================================

2011\03\24@143643 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
On 24/03/2011 17:28, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> RussellMc wrote:
>> >  We antipodeans also use 'maths' and not 'math'. The latter has never
>> >  been used here afaik, and would instantly identify you as a furriner.
> So you would actually say "I have to do my maths homework now."?  That would
> definitely be wrong here.
>
>

Yes.
Don't be fooled by fact that we all use English. It's not the same English. Even when the words mean the same and spellings the same, the Grammar varies too.

Definitely it was Maths Homework the dog ate long ago. At Primary School no Maths. All Arithmetic even if it wasn't. One of the Three Rs. Reading Writing and Arithmetic

2011\03\24@224127 by RussellMc

face picon face
>> We antipodeans also use 'maths' and not 'math'. The latter has never
>> been used here afaik, and would instantly identify you as a furriner.

> So you would actually say "I have to do my maths homework now."?  That would
> definitely be wrong here.

Yes. We'd say " ... maths homework ...".

And " ... math homework ..." would not only be "wrong" but would
instantly sound utterly wrong to all. ie not just preferred usage but
absolute usage except maybe to some who are constantly exposed to
'furrin' usage.

I live in the north island of NZ.
The name of the north island is 'the north island" (add capitals as desired).
The 'the" is part of the name and is always used.
If anyone every says "north island" or "south island" they are
instantly revealed as furriners.

A variant is that you'd say "a north islander" in relevant context.
Or "A north island product / town / road / river / ..."  etc.
In the above two usages the same result may occur whether the name was
"North Island" or 'The North Island".

The 3rd largest island (the canoe anchor) is names "Stewart Island".
NOT The Stewart Island.

But "Chatham Islands" and "The Chatham Islands" may well be exchangeable. Maybe.

NZ: "great barrier island". not 'the great barrier island".
BUT Australians use afaik 'The Great Barrier Reef" and NOT 'Great Barrier Reef".



 Russell






>
>
> ********************************************************************
> Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
> (978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.
>

2011\03\25@075321 by Forrest Christian

flavicon
face
Thanks to all that replied...  I'm going to have to figure out if I want to tackle the ultrasonics - they are very interesting indeed.

-forres

2011\03\25@104810 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 09:38 AM 3/24/2011, Bob Blick wrote:

>Stephen Woodward did a cute vector anemometer with three hot
>transistors. It was such a great idea I built one. It worked well in
>good weather.

Hi there, Bob.

Any chance that you have a copy of the schematic handy?  I went looking for that and have found the text of the submission on the EDN website but the schematic is missing.  It looks as if EDN has purged much of the archived content before 1998 (that article was published in 09/01/97.

FWIW - what I did find was at <http://www.edn.com/archives/1997/090197/18di_03.htm>.

Many thanks!

dwayne

-- Dwayne Reid   <KILLspamdwaynerKILLspamspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2011\03\25@115013 by Alex Harford

face picon face
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 7:48 AM, Dwayne Reid <RemoveMEdwaynerTakeThisOuTspamplanet.eon.net> wrote:
>
> FWIW - what I did find was at
> <http://www.edn.com/archives/1997/090197/18di_03.htm>.

Looks like the file names were set to lower case:
http://www.edn.com/archives/1997/090197/images/17d20731.gi

2011\03\25@121851 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face


On Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:48 -0600, "Dwayne Reid" wrote:
> At 09:38 AM 3/24/2011, Bob Blick wrote:
> >Stephen Woodward did a cute vector anemometer with three hot
> >transistors. It was such a great idea I built one. It worked well in
> >good weather.

> Any chance that you have a copy of the schematic handy?  I went
> looking for that and have found the text of the submission on the EDN
> website but the schematic is missing.  It looks as if EDN has purged
> much of the archived content before 1998 (that article was published
> in 09/01/97.

Yes, I am sure I have it at home. I just logged into my computer there
but didn't spot it and my skills with linux "find" are sub-par, so I
will have to find it when I am sitting in front of the machine tonight.
I'll email it or post it somewhere for you to grab. I think I may also
have his code, but it uses direct parallel port access with GWBasic so
no chance of it working on a modern machine.

Cheers,

Bob

-- http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

2011\03\25@155051 by Kerry Wentworth

flavicon
face
There is a free driver called UserPort, that allows DOS programs to access hardware under XP, etc.

Kerry


Bob Blick wrote:
{Quote hidden}

-- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 267.11.13 - Release Date: 10/6/05

2011\03\25@173914 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 09:50 AM 3/25/2011, Alex Harford wrote:
>On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 7:48 AM, Dwayne Reid <spamBeGonedwaynerspamBeGonespamplanet.eon.net> wrote:
> >
> > FWIW - what I did find was at
> > <http://www.edn.com/archives/1997/090197/18di_03.htm>.
>
>Looks like the file names were set to lower case:
>http://www.edn.com/archives/1997/090197/images/17d20731.gif

Thanks, Alex.  Unfortunately, it looks as if someone converted the files from whatever they were to GIF format - and used far too low a resolution.  I can't make out most of the text.

I did figure out that the large chip in the middle is most likely a 4052 dual 4-1 mux but I can't figure out any of the resistor values nor what the inverter-looking triangles are.

Hopefully Bob has a better copy stashed somewhere.

dwayne

-- Dwayne Reid   <TakeThisOuTdwaynerEraseMEspamspam_OUTplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2011\03\25@181559 by cdb

flavicon
face


:: Thanks to all that replied...  I'm going to have to figure out if
:: I want to tackle the ultrasonics - they are very interesting indeed

Way back in the late 90's or early 00's the UK magazine Practical and Everyday Electronics (EPE magazine) did a 2 part ultrasonic wind speed project.

http://www.epemag.com
http://www.epemag.co.uk

Colin
--
cdb, RemoveMEcolinspamTakeThisOuTbtech-online.co.uk on 26/03/2011
Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk   Hosted by:  http://www.justhost.com.au
 

2011\03\25@190240 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
On 25/03/2011 22:15, cdb wrote:
> Way back in the late 90's or early 00's the UK magazine Practical and
> Everyday Electronics (EPE magazine) did a 2 part ultrasonic wind speed
> project.
>
> http://www.epemag.com
> http://www.epemag.co.uk
>
> Colin
Thanks
That's the one I was thinking of. I have at least the 1st issue. It's not as neat a design as it could be.

It's not worth copying. The idea is simple and as Olin says you only need three transducers and simple PIC. You do pulse in each pair of transducers, both directions. Sums tell you wind speed and direction. You can also calculate the density. Does this mean you can deduce humidity if you measure temperature and pressure

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2011 , 2012 only
- Today
- New search...