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'[TECH] 3 Questions for N-gin-neers'
2009\07\02@121108 by Russell McMahon

face picon face
>  How much does a house weigh?

Too much.

> How much weight can a rural two-lane bridge Hold?
Not enough

> IS THIS BE COVERED BY
> HOUSE INSURANCE,
> CAR INSURANCE,
> DOES IT COME UNDER ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE ?
No.
No.
No.

Please attach your circuit diagram and all code so we that can see what did
wrong.



   Russell

2009\07\02@122804 by Alan B. Pearce

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They were lucky it was a long house .......

"Well I always wanted a house by the river ... just not over it !!!

2009\07\02@123434 by M.L.

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face

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 11:57 AM, AGSCalabrese<spam_OUTagscalTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
> 3 Questions for an Engineer
>
> Question # 1:
>  How much does a house weigh?
>
> Question # 2:
> How much weight can a rural two-lane bridge Hold?
>
>
>
> See
> http://oh-god.com:5080/dir/3Q/
>

I would call it an efficiently constructed "Falling Water"
--
Martin K.

2009\07\02@124732 by Russell McMahon

face picon face
> I would call it an efficiently constructed "Falling Water"

Wright!
*

    Russell

________________________________

* http://www.fallingwater.org/

Bigger than average image

http://www.wright-house.com/frank-lloyd-wright/fallingwater-pictures/large-fallingwater-photos/high-resolution/falling-water-fall-house-L.jpg

Nicer (I think) view, but includes people
http://blog.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/2008/01/_582581501092007.jpg

Not too foul.
But, not too focused :-(
http://mediaroom.visitpa.com/files/hi_fallingwater.jpg

Quite nice.
But has feel of having been upsized from lower resolution image
image10.webshots.com/11/9/31/29/135093129yOjvHp_fs.jpg

2009\07\02@131112 by M.L.

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On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Russell McMahon<.....apptechnzKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:

> * http://www.fallingwater.org/
>
> Bigger than average image
>
> http://www.wright-house.com/frank-lloyd-wright/fallingwater-pictures/large-fallingwater-photos/high-resolution/falling-water-fall-house-L.jpg


I'll have to get some neutral density filters so I can take cliche
waterfall shots.
--
Martin K.

2009\07\02@132939 by Carl Denk

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face
Yea, but it had major structural problem that were hopefully corrected a
few years back. Need to get the history of Frank Lloyd Wright to see he
wasn't that great, and much of the work was implemented by his underlies.

Russell McMahon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\07\02@133124 by Russell McMahon

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> I'll have to get some neutral density filters so I can take cliche
> waterfall shots.

No need.
Just set ISO low (or use low ISO plastic stuff if that's your bent), stop
down substantially and you get the 'desired' effect.
With digital this needs a clean sensor as you'll see any sensor dust at f22
or smaller. Even f16 starts to show sensor dust.


   Russell

2009\07\02@201730 by AGSCalabrese

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I wanted to mention the clever designer who put railings
next to the bridge for gawkers to lean on.
Gus

>

2009\07\02@202623 by Tamas Rudnai

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Guys, you are talking about engineering, insurance and stuff, but seriously,
I have never seen a house on wheels! That must be a joke! So the real
question is this:

0# How much is the chance for the builder do not notice that someone left
some wheels on the construction site so it stuck underneath the foundation
therefore the house will roll away when it finished?

Tamas


On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 1:17 AM, AGSCalabrese <agscalspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:

> I wanted to mention the clever designer who put railings
> next to the bridge for gawkers to lean on.
> Gus
>
> >
> -

2009\07\02@204919 by Carl Denk

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face
This is common in the USA. For various reasons, usually the property is
a prime site for a development, or sometimes highway or other uses, the
house needs to be gone, either move it or tear it down. There are
contractors that specialize in this work. If I was to wild guess, in the
USA there are 50 houses moving down the roads every day. The house is
jacked up, some beams slid underneath, and a truck under one end, and
some trailer wheels under the other, or the whole house if small goes on
a low trailer. The move may be anything from a few 100 feet to 100 miles
or more, may be on open roads, across a corn field, or through tight
city streets.

The wheels are expensive, and the contractor not likely to leave behind,
like you probably wouldn't' leave an oscilloscope behind after a field call.

The truck driver would get cited  since he is the motive power and his
insurance have to pick up the bill. The cost of the house if demolished
would depend on the contract wording with the house owner. I guess there
is a chance that the bridge weight limit signs were none existent. The
oversize load normally would need a special travel permit, but on back
roads with local lowest level of government control, who knows what the
requirements are. :) :)

Tamas Rudnai wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>> --

2009\07\02@205704 by John Gardner

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> Wright!

Remind me - Which circle of Hell was reserved for punsters?

2009\07\02@214719 by AGSCalabrese

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It is common for me to hide stuff under my various unused houses.
One of my mentors mentioned the wheel problem, so I have always
attached a chain to my houses..... mostly.
Gus


{Quote hidden}

2009\07\03@041705 by Alan B. Pearce

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> I have never seen a house on wheels! That must be a joke!

Keep a lookout for the TV series 'Monster Moves' which is of US origin, but
does feature moves around the world. There have been a couple of moves of
buildings that would be harder to move along the road than this one.

This one does look like a glorified or fancy 'Trailer Home' the way the
width of it seems to be made similar to the road width.

I am surprised it has only a set of wheels half way down the length. I would
have thought it would have needed more wheels than that.

2009\07\03@043515 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Jul 2, 2009, at 5:26 PM, Tamas Rudnai wrote:

> I have never seen a house on wheels!

There is that house moving business, but this looks more like a more-
or-less standard "mobile home" (in that it's long and skinny.)  There  
are lots of them in the US, used to attract tornados and keep them  
away from "real" houses...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_home

BillW

2009\07\03@061508 by John La Rooy

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On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Alan B. Pearce<Alan.B.Pearcespamspam_OUTstfc.ac.uk> wrote:

>
> I am surprised it has only a set of wheels half way down the length. I would
> have thought it would have needed more wheels than that.
>
You were right - it did :)

2009\07\03@085037 by Carl Denk

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That looks like a fairly light construction structure, and probably
didn't weigh that much. The tire size/capacity (and they do overload
them for these short low speed hauls) then is used to determine the
number of tires required. Likely didn't weigh more than 20 tons (40,000
lbs.). Some of the weight was carried by the truck, say 10,000 lbs.
30,000 lbs can be carried legally on 12 tires, 3 axles of 4 tires. For a
short low speed haul, 2 axles with 8 tires, sure would be enough.
Interesting that the load got to the middle of the bridge before
collapsing, saying that they almost had enough capacity to get across.
:) Almost doesn't count except horseshoes. :)

John La Rooy wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Alan B. Pearce<@spam@Alan.B.PearceKILLspamspamstfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>  
>> I am surprised it has only a set of wheels half way down the length. I would
>> have thought it would have needed more wheels than that.
>>
>>    
> You were right - it did :)
>  

2009\07\03@153945 by Nathan House

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Yes, it's real. That house looks to me what we in the U.S. know as prefab
homes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefabricated_home

A lot of people with severe allergies (no, I'm not kidding) buy these things
because they are built inside factories, meaning when being built they don't
get rained or snowed on or what have you, and molds and the like don't
develop in them. I've been in one that was very large.. Two stories, garage,
very nice..

2009\07\03@231958 by Nathan House

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>Easy. Mount a strain gauge to any floor, connect it to a PIC, with a
>piezo speaker for the sound of your choice :)

Or just live in a really old house, they have these built in floor alarms
for free :-) Trust me, I used to live in one. I never really thought of it
as a safety feature though...

2009\07\04@002754 by John Gardner

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20-odd hoss & riders that different from 10-ton truck?

Jack

2009\07\04@085123 by Carl Denk

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Oh, yes, it's the resonance frequency and the frequency of whatever,
like horses or other things in unison.  Think of a child on a playground
swing. At the right time a small push and the amplitude is greater if
that push is right after the extreme limit of travel. If the push is
just before the limit, amplitude is reduced.

John Gardner wrote:
> 20-odd hoss & riders that different from 10-ton truck?
>
> Jack
>  

2009\07\04@103553 by Russell McMahon

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If nobody has mentioned the Tacoma Narrows bridge yet  ... .
A fine early experience of resonance and the problems with cable stayed
bridges.
Best of all, despite the fantastic film footage, nobody was killed in the
breaking of this bridge. Several people would have thought they were
candidates.

This is by far the best film footage of the event that i have ever seen -
well worth watching.
Sound track is execrable. Can't have everything :-).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw
This may have been "post processed" and possibly colorised.
This is more like what is usually seen.
Has better footage of the actual moment of collapse.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxTZ446tbzE&feature=related
Script identical in most cases.
Prof xxx is brave beyond belief (but, see below).
Two men seen at end of footage MUST be engineers ;-).

This version provides other color footage.
it also says the dog rescue story is untrue and that the dog died.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu4LPTsy_xY&feature=related

_________________________

The london Millenium pedestrian only bridge suffered from a subtler fatal
flaw which was discovered soon after it opened. It was closed again soon
after and took AFAIR about 2 years to sort out.
The second stage of the problem is resonance if people walk in step - the
designers were well aware of this and didn't see it as a problem. BUT,
The first stage of the problem was an effect discovered many decades earlier
and then largely forgotten - if a bridge with a natural oscillatory
frequency is excited by random input (lots of pedestrians) it can produce a
forcing signal that is not large enough to be damaging to the structure BUT
which drives the exciters towards the resonance point. ie the walkers resond
to the bridghe's movements by altering thei stride and gait somewhat and are
driven into resonance with the bridge so that THEN they drive the resonance
more solidly. The MB had substantial dampers fitted which preventthis - they
are visible in photos if you know that there is something tgere to look for.

_______________

Anti-resoant dampers for use in de-swaying tall buildings were mentioned.
Taipei 101was at one time the tallest building in the world by AFAIR 5 of
the 6 metrics used to measure building height as agreed to by the tall
building builders association (names have been mutilated due to imperfect
memory, facts approx correct). One floor below the viewing deck there is a
large and very heavy and very high tech suspended weight - approximately
stepped spherical.
Ah well ... Gargoyle says ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taipei_101
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/1612252.html


World's tallest at May 2005 (I was there ???)
Burj Dubai is now taller BUT will not officially meet the definition of a
"building" until later this year (fwiw).


1667 ft. 660 ft. from a major fault line in Taiwan, ... could be subjected
to earthquakes, typhoons and fierce winds ... 730-ton tuned mass damper
(TMD). It acts like a giant pendulum to counteract the building's
movement--reducing sway due to wind by 30 to 40 percent. Constructed by
specialty engineering firm Motioneering, the damper was too heavy to be
lifted by crane and had to be assembled on-site. Eight steel cables form a
sling to support the ball, while eight viscous dampers act like shock
absorbers when the sphere shifts. Able to move 5 ft. in any direction, the
Taipei TMD is the world's largest and heaviest. This gold-colored orb is on
view from restaurants, bars and observation decks between the 88th and 92nd
stories. A bumper ring prevents the ball from swaying too far, should that
much swaying ever need to occur. Our recommendation, in that case, would be
an immediate egress to firmer ground.








2009/7/5 Carl Denk <KILLspamcdenkKILLspamspamwindstream.net>

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\07\04@111736 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 3:29 AM, cdb <RemoveMEcolinTakeThisOuTspambtech-online.co.uk> wrote:

> During the times of the Samurai, the Japanese
>  used to have a Nightingale floor, special floor made of wood,
> designed to creak and 'sing' if someone walked on it.
>
> The target customer being a paraniod Samurai who feared being killed
> in his sleep - the floor would wake him or his guards if such a thing
> were attempted.
>
> I wonder if the knowledge exists to build one today?


Nowadays we are using PIR sensors and 120dB sirens to make noise when
someone is attempt to walk in our house while we are sleeping in upstairs
:-)

Tamas

2009\07\04@144731 by AGSCalabrese

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See New Tacoma Bridge
www.nwrain.net/~newtsuit/recoveries/narrows/cb.htm
Gus

{Quote hidden}

2009/7/5 Carl Denk <spamBeGonecdenkspamBeGonespamwindstream.net>

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\07\06@044656 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>1667 ft. 660 ft. from a major fault line in Taiwan, ... could be
>subjected to earthquakes, typhoons and fierce winds ... 730-ton
>tuned mass damper (TMD). It acts like a giant pendulum to counteract
>the building's movement--reducing sway due to wind by 30 to 40
>percent. Constructed by specialty engineering firm Motioneering,
>the damper was too heavy to be lifted by crane and had to be
>assembled on-site. Eight steel cables form a sling to support the
>ball, while eight viscous dampers act like shock absorbers when the
>sphere shifts. Able to move 5 ft. in any direction, the Taipei TMD
>is the world's largest and heaviest. This gold-colored orb is on
>view from restaurants, bars and observation decks between the 88th
>and 92nd stories. A bumper ring prevents the ball from swaying too
>far, should that much swaying ever need to occur. Our recommendation,
>in that case, would be an immediate egress to firmer ground.

I have seen a TV program about this building, and it included some cell
phone footage of the ball moving as the building was buffeted during a
typhoon. Looked pretty awesome, but somehow I don't think I want to be
around in a typhoon anyway ...

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