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'[SX] Maybe i've worn out my welcome here'
2005\11\20@192247 by DigitalDjn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, DigitalDj wrote:

I tried to get some replies on my post and maybe everybody is tired of what they think is stupid questions. You have to admitt one thing though at least i am taking an effort and trying to learn and figure out my options before i build and not be dissapointed by a wrong choice of a processor. I have sent a couple of private massages with no returns, maybe i'm not up on all of the programming and circuit design as the rest of you but i will learn. Sometimes i feel the forum is pretty clicky because i have gotten some rather abrupt responses in other threads.

Remember one thing you were all there at one time also and you still use the forum because you also are still learning.


Kevin
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2005\11\20@193403 by beann/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, bean wrote:

Kevin,
 You asked if I wrote the code for the Robolypic metal. I did not. I think the authors name is in the sxb file you can download from parallax.

 I work a day job, plus do consulting work in the evenings. I'm very busy on a consulting project right now. I didn't mean to be rude. I check out the forums and if I can type a quick response then I will, but I just don't have the time right now to do much more than that.

Bean.

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2005\11\20@200320 by kb2hapn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, kb2hap wrote:

There is a wealth of info between searching the forums, the Parallax web site, the SX "bibles", sxlist, and of course Google.  Sometimes you gotta just try stuff out and see what happens.  Thats what expirementing is all about.  Thats the best way to learn.  Yes, of course, If you really get stuck on something, ask!!!

*IMO* **thats the last thing i do because I feel defeated If I can't figure something out myself**(thats just me).  BY the end of all of my troubleshooting (hair pulling) I understand the item(hardware,software) much more.   Once you get a decent grasp of it, it just praticing (playing) to understant it better, and to get good at it.  We have all let the Magic blue smoke out and have spent sleepless nights one a program, but thats what makes you better, when you get to experiance it.

If you peek at the sxlist, check out the downloads on the Parallax web site, and Google it. and you dont understand something Please Ask! You are always welcome. I'm sure all the "Gods" keeps pretty busy. and I'm sure they probably get numerous HELP ME! emails so you must bear with them.  you best bet though is to keep it in the public forums this way the largest audiance can listen and give you more diverse replies.

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2005\11\21@032618 by George Herzogn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, George Herzog wrote:

The nice thing about search is that I can take a quick look at your postings.  While I really believe there are no stupid questions, some of your more recent ones are extremely ambitous and would take a lot of time to answer.

For example, I did reply to the one about the retina because I was concerned for safety's sake, but programing a RGB leds in a matrix has so many permutations that I could work on that one for a year.  Every week, I drive by a 5 by 7 meter video display that is already driven by RGB leds and does and excellent job producing television-like quality, so I feel like I would be re-inventing rather than breaking new ground.

A lot of times we imagine that the project is really quite simple but in someone else's head, but it just ain't so.  Part of learning about microcontrollers is that they provide an excellent entry point for understanding all computing through a small platform. And another part is learning that they are not PCs or supercomputers.  They simply have limitations that might require complex integration with other systems.

Much depends on your own mental and financial resources to really learn.  The less money, the more sweat equity.  We can help, but we can't make a dream come true for you.  We have our own.

I don't think anyone is intentionally ignoring you.  People don't answer me unless that topic is of interest.  I try to contribute to new comers so that I won't be consider a bore when I really need help.  That seems to work too.  Friends have sent me parts that I cannot buy locally and I have done the same, sometimes people ask about my dog.

I would just like to say 'don't give up'.  You will find that the knowledge you are learning just keeps evolving in an organic and somewhat mysterious way.  Programable devices are quite open-ended and with DIY people may discover something never considered before.  It is all quite fun.

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2005\11\21@065621 by Rsadeikan/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, Rsadeika wrote:

Kevin,
I agree with you on the 'clicky' part. Having said that, the forum is not a 'mandatory' service. What I mean by that is, as a forum member, I am not obligated, under any circumstance to respond to your post. Personally, when I post my expectations are, no responses, 'snippy' responses, and rage responses. I always have to re-think the question, was it to vague, was I asking to much, the short-cut is to obvious, ..., etc. Now, if you think that I am preaching then probably an "attitude" adjustment is in order. I had to do quite a few of those.

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2005\11\21@074057 by Jon Williamsn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, Jon Williams wrote:

While it is true that not every forum member can or will answer every question posted, I really don't think there are any "cliques" on our forums.  Are there groups of folks who seem to have a lot of exchanges?  Sure, but that's because they have EXCHANGES -- information going both ways.  I would submit to any person not getting what they want out of the forums that they're not putting enough in, and that's usually in the form of poorly-phrased questions, or questions that require addition information (e.g., schematics, part numbers, etc.) and fail to provide it.  If you're asking for help, don't make people work so hard to help you -- one should not expect the other to do basic research (though I see our members doing web searches for those that won't all the time).

And remember that not every person is interested in every topic.  It takes time to formulate a response to a post -- that should be valued.  For this reason I don't think PMs should be sent unless invited; I frequently redirect folks to move their PM to me into the forums so that others can participate in and benefit from the exchange.

In the end, if you need support and don't feel you're getting it here, the "official" support channel is through our office -- either at support@parallax.com or by phone at 888-512-1024.

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2005\11\21@082042 by RoboROOKIEn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, RoboROOKIE wrote:

[Quoting: "DigitalDj"]
I tried to get some replies on my post and maybe everybody is tired of what they think is stupid questions. You have to admitt one thing though at least i am taking an effort and trying to learn and figure out my options before i build and not be dissapointed by a wrong choice of a processor. I have sent a couple of private massages with no returns, maybe i'm not up on all of the programming and circuit design as the rest of you but i will learn. Sometimes i feel the forum is pretty clicky because i have gotten some rather abrupt responses in other threads.

Remember one thing you were all there at one time also and you still use the forum because you also are still learning.


Kevin


I hear exactly what you are saying Digi. I have seen for my self those that have an established knowledge in this field can be a bit blunt. Some people have not learned how to "dummy" them self's down to the level of the person they are talking to. My wife is a programmer, and they tell her at her work, that all programmers that talk to their customers about an application are required to learn how to "dummy" them self's down when talking about technical stuff. To "dummy" down does not mean to talk to them in a disrespectful way. it means to communicate in a manner in which the customer can understand and make the proper decision in regards to their project that you are working on with them.

One thing I have learned, you can't change people. You can only change the way you respond to people. I choose to take those that choose to be @$$es and blow them off as if they were a fly on my arm.
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2005\11\21@101001 by beann/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, bean wrote:

I can't agree with that Mike.
To me that amounts to "Please help me, but you must do so in a way that is easiest for me, otherwise your a @#$%$".
Bean.

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2005\11\21@104440 by DigitalDjn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, DigitalDj wrote:

I have to agree with mike. For the fact that some people can't dummy themselves down to answer some of the simpler questions that just maybe doesn't make sense right away and then when explained they get it. I train alot of people at work and i have to dummy down for them and some of these people are Devry degree graduates, but you know what i don't have a problem with that. When it comes to training i train them the way i would want to be treated. All of the employees that i work with help each other all the time and we are not looked down upon because we don't know something.

The fact that i may be interested in a different area doesn't seem all that different because we are using the same processors.


Maybe some of us are wanting to fit in and learn all that we can, if it is a stupid question then tell us and tell us why and maybe point us in the right direction. I have always thought of forums being like one big family. The other thing is i don't have alot of cash flow to just go buy anything and especially if i'm not going to end up using it, so i make sure that what i am going to do is exactly what i need to purchase.


Yes it is about respect, from all parties involved! I'm suprised we haven't been told to move this post!


Kevin
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2005\11\21@105417 by cbmeeksn/a
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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, cbmeeks wrote:

[Quoting: "Bean (Hitt Consulting)"]
It's all about respecting those that you are asking help from. Something lost in society today.

Bean.


Can't agree more.  I can't tell you how many times I have held the door open for someone and they just walk on in like it was my job...not even a smile or thank you.  I still say thanks when I pick up my hamburger at Burger King...I still thank the people.

Society doesn't care anymore.  But, there are exceptions. Saturday, I saw a stranded man at a busy intersection and I pulled over and helped him push his car into a parking lot.  He thanked me and even shook my hand.

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2005\11\21@105913 by beann/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, bean wrote:

Mike & Kevin, There is a big difference between your job (being paid to help someone) and charity.
If I was paying someone to train someone, sure I would want them to do whatever it took to get the point across.
But when people as helping and not getting paid, you have NO excuse to bad mouth them.

As a side note: I was doing some IT work in a Salvation Army location, and there were people coming in that I could tell were "regulars", not one of them said "Thank you" to the person giving them cloths and food. If fact some of them actually argued that they should get more.  That day was a big eye opener for me.
Bean.

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2005\11\21@110150 by Coriolisn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, Coriolis wrote:

I feel like I need to step in to express my viewpoint.

Those members that don't have a (Parallax) next to thier names are volunteers, we receive no pay for our help and do it out of a general feeling of generosity. As such none of us is obligated to help any of you in any way, we do simply out of our own personal pleasure of doing so. Those who ask questions greatly contribute or detract from the amount of pleasure we gain from answering questions. Way too many people come on the forums treating us like a parent who spoils thier child out of fearing the child will dislike us if we don't cater to thier every whim.


Those of us who frequently answer questions learned this stuff by doing the grunt work, just getting down to it and figuring it out ourselves, it is not too much for us to expect this from others. We are happy to point the way to get them going, but we simply don't have the time or inclination to do a project for someone without being hired as a consultant. Im not that inclined to even answer someone's question which happens to be identical to a question half way down the page of threads. If they are too lazy to even read the first page of threads, IMO they are too lazy to follow through with the project. Another common failing is many members throw an entire idea out there for us to comment/fill in the blanks on. We are less likely to participate because of this, instead it is best to ask a specific question on a facet of the project that you are currently working on, to respond to an entire project simply takes too much time, remember we arn't getting paid for this and large overarching design questions can slip our answering because it is just too time intensive to explain everything, especially when reiterative explanations are required (Mike's "dumbing down" scenario).


About the level of explaination we provide, we have no way of knowing what a poster's level of skill is at; other than an occasional "Im a complete noob" comment, we have no way of knowing if the questioner already understands the background nessesary to understand the answer to thier question. Again from a time perspective, we don't provide the answer and the background nessesary to understand the answer. Leaving instead the filling in of missing background through another set of questions by the original questioner, frequently this is not done, leaving us to not know if our answer is understood or not, and we don't have the time to hold hands to make sure it is, it is the questioner's perogative to ask the follow up questions.


Ive never known this forum to be clicky as some have called it, if you show respect to the people who participate the most in answering questions, you will receive it in return. Ive never seen a question that we refused to answer outside of the person having a history of disrespect or just being repeatedly bone-headed. Sometimes its simply a matter that not that many people who participate frequently have done what is being asked, Like as far as the Matrix LEDs questions, I know none of the regulars have done projects on this, at least none have said so. There have been other poeple who have done it, but they dissapear once thier questions are answered, and therefore are not around to answer other's questions.


Now none of these comments are directed to either Mike or Kevin, I have no memory of either of you doing the things above. Mike will attest that if a person asks me, shows a real interest and is patient, I will reciprocate and continue to explain until the concept is understood.


Just remember we are here at our own pleasure, you tipping the balance of that one way or another will affect our desire to help you.

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2005\11\21@110643 by Rsadeikan/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, Rsadeika wrote:

I sort of have to agree with Bean on the respect part. But, as a person viewing a post, I do not pre-judge the post in terms of, is the poster going to respect me, will I get a thank you, does he know how much valuable time I have to put into this, ... , etc. We have choices, you can always move on the the next post. The part that bothers me is - gime this, gime that, take from somebody else that has to much, I have my needs that have to be taken care of, attitude. In this world nobody owes you anything, on this forum nobody owes you a response. That is about as blunt as I can get, the solution, it is your responsibility to frame the qestion in such a manner as to elicit the most favorable interaction. As for the "dummy" down thing, generally people know when they are being patronized or condensended to.

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2005\11\21@111911 by PJMontyn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, PJMonty wrote:

Kevin,
In order to find yourself more at home in the forum, you need to learn a critical lesson that quite a few people don't understand:

There's a difference between asking for help on a problem that you're working on, and asking for someone to tell you in advance if a problem can be solved, and how to solve it.
When somone asks a question like, "I was working on a piece of code to PWM control motors and found that the motor speed isn't linear," they are clearly trying to get the problem solved on their own.  When someone asks a question like, "I wanted to know if it's possible to control motors using PWM and if so, can someone give me a code example that shows exactly how this is done," then clearly they haven't tried to do anything other post a message in the forum.  
You posted a question asking a lot of hypothetical questions that could largely be answered by trying the experiments yourself.  People on this forum are often amazed that some folks seem to have learned so much about the SX.  Do you want to know the secret?  They tried.  Yes, this means that you'll go down blind alleys, and maybe blow up a chip or two, but at the end of the day, you'll know more than when you started.

If you want to control an LED using PWM, then try it.  There are tons of examples of PWM control.  If you want to multiplex groups of LEDs, try it.  Again, examples are out there.  Want to add serial control of the PWM?  Try it.  If you get stuck, post your code and ask for help.  You'll be amazed at the number of people who will go out of there way to help because you showed that you were trying and ran into a problem.  If you come to the forum looking for a way to avoid work, then people will avoid you.  It's that simple.

[list]Thanks,
PeterM[/list]
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2005\11\21@112505 by Coriolisn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, Coriolis wrote:

[Quoting: "DigitalDj"]
I have to agree with mike. For the fact that some people can't dummy themselves down to answer some of the simpler questions that just maybe doesn't make sense right away and then when explained they get it. I train alot of people at work and i have to dummy down for them and some of these people are Devry degree graduates, but you know what i don't have a problem with that. When it comes to training i train them the way i would want to be treated. All of the employees that i work with help each other all the time and we are not looked down upon because we don't know something.

The fact that i may be interested in a different area doesn't seem all that different because we are using the same processors.


Kevin

(Emphasis added)
Yes the dumbing down is fine, I have no problem explaining things down to a level that someone with general intelligence can understand. But you comment explains itself, you get paid to explain things in a way that they understand, we do not. Additionally when you are explaining things in a face to face environment, it is a simple task to gain feedback to whether they are understanding by simply looking at thier face as you explain it, we do not have such feedback. I has to be a give and take between questioner and answerer, both parties must participate in order for it to work.

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2005\11\21@120101 by RoboROOKIEn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, RoboROOKIE wrote:

[Quoting: "Bean (Hitt Consulting)"]
I can't agree with that Mike.
To me that amounts to "Please help me, but you must do so in a way that is easiest for me, otherwise your a @#$%$".

It's all about respecting those that you are asking help from. Something lost in society today.


Bean.



Respect has nothing to do with the subject. If someone asks a question in a respectful manor the respect has ben paid. When a question has be asked, you have a choice, either to answer the question or not to answer the question. Simple.


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2005\11\21@120228 by Coriolisn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, Coriolis wrote:

DigitalDJ, Ive seen you kick around the idea of RGB matricies arround for quite some time. I applaude your determination, but perhaps it is time to narrow the scope of what you are working on. You know you need PWM control, serial communications and (perhaps) extra memory. I strongly suggest picking one and concentrating on it. I speak from experience, I too sometimes dwell on the big picture and hence end up going nowhere. First you'll need to do some parameterization, IE how many levels of color for each element, refresh rate (PWM period), and the total number of elements you'll be driving. This will give you an idea of how fast things need to be, from there you can settle on a scheme. But take it from me, stop thinking about every little thing and start concentrating on the core, you may not have the money to invest in an end component, but you can make do, such as have 1 standard LED for each element that will be in the end RGB matrix (1 for each red,green and blue element) and test out your programs on that, it won't have the pizazz of the end product but it will get you going with understanding the limitations with a particular scheme.

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2005\11\21@150441 by DigitalDjn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, DigitalDj wrote:

Yes i have kicked this around for a while and i have designed some circuit boards etc. so i have put some time into what i want to do. I don't want to put time into programming a SX28 and then find that what i wanted to do would have been better using an SX48. That's why i was asking on my other post, you guys have no idea what i been through with questions to parallax and other companies telling me yes you can do that with that board or chip then find out they know nothing of waht they were talking about. If i don't know something i will tell you i don't,  i don't blow smoke up anybody's butt. If i do know i will tell you. Designing circuits it's very new to me and yes i am very much a beginner. I just want to explore all of my possibilities. I am about to invest in the SX Programming Kit but i have no idea yet on how to program the chips, i just program some in visual basic. You guys have to understand the whole major project i have worked on for 2 years to understand why i want to go the right route with this project.

Yes i know you guys owe me nothing but the way i look at it is if your on the forum that your here to help. Forums are to help each other and enjoy helping each other, if you don't have time then don't post a comment then never get back to that person for a follow up or if you get a private message then at least respond with some comment. I've been on other forums that had no problem helping each other and even sold me parts at discount and saved me alot of money from having to call a repair guy or taking something to the shop.

I don't train people at work any certain way because i get paid to do it, i do it my way and the way i feel is the best and if i can teach that person what i learned the hard way it makes me feel like i am giving something to that person that allows them to make thier job easier.

I will do this project with or without help, i have already learned to program on my own, design circuit boards and design the project i built and the light modules that will go in it. As far as putting an effort forth i've got 2 years to show for it.

Ok I'm done!

Kevin
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2005\11\21@153325 by Coriolisn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, Coriolis wrote:

I get what you are saying, I know you have done a bit of the leg work involved. My point in the other thread is that an SX is fast enough that even if there are not enough pins on an SX28 to directly drive the matrix, you can serially shift the data through 595s fast enough that it still does what you want, the speed limitations of the BS2 don't apply in all but the most extreme examples.

WRT the level of explanation, it isn't that I don't want to provide a layman's explanation for everything, I simply can't. The reason why Ive been harping on the "we don't get paid for this" is that we earn a living through other means just like you do, meaning work+personal life+our own projects leaves not much left for the forums. If we took a large amount of time explaining in depth every persons questions on these forums, many people would never have thier questions answered. It is much easier to start with a brief (sometimes highly technical) answer and defer filling in the details to a later time when we can guage the questioner's understanding more fully. I have more than once thought a person's ability to be underneath thier actual knowledge, typed a 3 paragraph in-depth explanation only for them to say they already knew all that, they just wanted an answer. It is a no win situation for us, we either come of as stand-off clique'ish if we overshoot thier understanding or we appear as condescending if we undershoot thier understanding. Thats why I follow a policy of high level first and fill in where nessesary.

If you notice on the forums, I stick with a questioner until either an understanding is reached, the topic goes outside my expertise or the topic strays off-course. Im sure there are exceptions, but I frequently answer 20 or so threads per day and I sometimes loose track of a specific thread, but it only happens rarely. Sometimes I'll hit a burn-out stage but I still visit, and continue to answer the threads I was involed in, I just don't participate in any others.

Yes we are here to help, but within limits of each of our's personal desire and whim, I make it a point to answer all PMs unless it is not forum related (one member has a habit of PMing personal questions I choose not to reply to).

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2005\11\21@160333 by Coriolisn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, Coriolis wrote:

Perhaps its time for those involed to take a step back, take a deep breath, enjoy some turkey and/or ham and return with renewed vim and vigor after the holidays.

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2005\11\21@171450 by beann/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, bean wrote:

I think these statements say it all...

DigitalDj said...

Bean responds...
I don't want to put time into programming a SX28 and then find that what i wanted to do would have been better using an SX48.

If you did any work at all you would know that the SX28 and SX48 program exactly the same.
you guys have no idea what i been through with questions to parallax and other companies telling me yes you can do that with that board or chip then find out they know nothing of waht they were talking about.

I bet we have no idea what Parallax has been though trying to answer your questions. Someone can probably do just about anything with the SX, the real question is can "YOU" do it. Parallax cannot answer that.
Designing circuits it's very new to me and yes i am very much a beginner.

I am about to invest in the SX Programming Kit but i have no idea yet on how to program the chips, i just program some in visual basic.

So your trashing everyone trying to help you and don't even own the tools to program the SX chip ? How do you expect to try anything we suggest ?
You guys have to understand the whole major project i have worked on for 2 years to understand why i want to go the right route with this project.

In 2 years you could have tried several dozen different designs instead of waiting for someone to convince you that you can do it.
Yes i know you guys owe me nothing but
but... But hell... We owe you nothing PERIOD.
if you don't have time then don't post a comment then never get back to that person for a follow up or if you get a private message then at least respond with some comment.

Um, this isn't your forum so don't try to tell us how it should be run. Do you respond of every piece of spam you get ? No... How rude.
I don't train people at work any certain way because i get paid to do it, i do it my way and the way i feel is the best and if i can teach that person what i learned the hard way it makes me feel like i am giving something to that person that allows them to make thier job easier.

And you do this out the goodness of your heart. You would do it even if they did pay you. Right.
I will do this project with or without help, i have already learned to program on my own, design circuit boards and design the project i built and the light modules that will go in it. As far as putting an effort forth i've got 2 years to show for it.

I'd say for 2 years of effort, you have nothing to show for it.

Those who know me on the forums will have to excuse me. But...Well what can I say I've reached my breaking point.

With apologies Bean.

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2005\11\21@174532 by RoboROOKIEn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, RoboROOKIE wrote:

I'm not going to go down that road. this has gotten way out of hand. I see a bit of over reaction. Let's eat some turkey, stuffing and delicious Dr. Pepper. Cause you know the saying: Dr. Pepper makes the WORLD taste better!

Lets move on shall we?

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2005\11\21@180106 by DigitalDjn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, DigitalDj wrote:

You couldn't answer 2 of my private messages in the past but you had plenty of time to pick upart my message.

Let's do! Bean is way off base and talking out his ass becuase he has know idea i guess of what i was talking about on my project. So if your getting aggrevated then you must feel at fault.

Your private message was right mike!

I do see everyone had time for this post!

I'm done Happy Holidays!

Kevin
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2005\11\21@182524 by James Newtonn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, James Newton wrote:

Hey, my mom used to tell me about "actions speaking louder than words"
So if you don't want to help, err...

DON'T?
And if someone asks for help with thier moral character or the way they approach a project, then some of the advice that has been given here would be really appropo...

...but for help with building something, I haven't seen much good advice. Of course, I haven't seen really great questions either.

On the piclist, the general way to manage it is this:

- Newbie askes a really lame question like "Can you do my homework for me"? Or "How do you design a fusion reactor?"
- Nobody responds and the newbie either goes away or...

- Newbie asks "Hey, why didn't anyone answer?"
- Now that is a different question... and then you can answer with things like "well, I didn't have time to answer that question, I have my own life" and just leave it at that. No need to be rude. No need to complain. Just, "I didn't want to."
- Hopefully the newbie has been reading other (good) questions and seeing the answers they get, and has been reading the FAQ site so they are starting to learn. Pretty soon, they ask a more specific question like "Why does this sample code say this..." or "Why can't I find anything about doing this..."
The other side of "actions louder than words" is I kick people off the list for being rude. But that is my list. I must respect the wishes of the owners of this list.

Mom also used to tell me: "don't say anything if you can't say something nice." But I haven't really learned that lesson yet.

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2005\11\21@183221 by DigitalDjn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, DigitalDj wrote:

Thanks james i bookmarked your site and will look at further!

Kevin
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2005\11\21@194301 by steve_bn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, steve_b wrote:

I'm amazed at how these things can sometimes get out of hand!

Ya know....to quote the 'Stones, "You can't always get what you want....la di da..haha"
These forums are a vast array of knowledge without even having to post a message.
You can answer a lot of your questions by going through other ppl's posts.

I lurk daily and really don't have the time to read everything....So, the poor buggers that have subject headings like "need help" will get skipped over by more than just me.
Also, those that simple state a one liner, haven't put in the time to describe their problem....so they really can't expect a descriptive answer!

And NO....just because I've signed up with this forum, does NOT mean I have to help.  Yet I do....why?  I dunno...I'm a sucker for punishment I guess!

Remember the old days of BBS'ing and file ratios.  
You couldn't download a file until you had uploaded one.  Granted, this meant a lot of people uploaded junk....but you can't always get anything out of it, if you're not willing to put something in to it.
This thread has just gotten way too negative to remain in the forums!

I don't know the OP's original issue....but if you'd been in contact with a whole bunch of manufacturers (Parallax included) and none of their anwers were useful, then maybe you were asking the wrong question?
The other day I receiver the wrong part from Electrosonic....I went back and looked....and it was me that missed the partnumber!

We're fallible....stamping your feet and whining, "why me", doesn't get anything solved!

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2005\11\22@081925 by LostboYn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, LostboY wrote:

You'll notice the marked lack of responses by Parallax people here.  Being fairly new to Parallax, I still try to view things through the eyes of the customer, and this thread brings a few things to mind.  

I came to work for Parallax because of the reputation that the company had, and the vast resources available, such as these forums.  You are hard pressed to find customer support like Parallax offers.  It is even more amazing that there are some really brilliant people who lend their time and talents *for free* to help others in these forums-  If approached correctly the forums are a more efficient way of learning than even some college classrooms.  As a customer, when I posted in here asking for help, I was grateful if I got it.  If I didn't, I wasn't upset at people for not helping me, and I didn't expect an explination or rationalization as to why I wasn't helped.   (Much in the same way I wouldn't goto a stranger on the street and ask for help, and be upset if they didn't help me or at the very least give me an explination as to why they didn't help me - especially one that I felt was satisfactory and in a manner that was pleasing to me)-  In the same vein, when somone had questions here that I felt I could help with, I always made an effort to help when two conditions were met: 1. I thought I could help 2. I had the time/resources to help.  I had no problem helping, but I was not ever going to attempt to do work for people.

Then I came to work at Parallax.  We really strive (actively) to allocate our time to best maximize the benefit to our customers-  This involves a company where you still get a *real live person* on the phone when you call (and it does not cost you $$$), answering direct emails, the forums, walk-in customers, writing documentation, writing appnotes, just to name a few of the ways in which we strive to support our customers.  On top of this we are constantly working on new things, and working hard to make improvements to old ones.  
Ryan
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2005\11\22@102104 by kb2hapn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, kb2hap wrote:

END OF THREAD...
OK there I did it.
the point is there
the in-fighting solves nothing
there is way too much high quality resourses going into this thread
lets let it die now lets start focusing on the good stuff
turkey, pies, and handfulls of SX's dancing in our head
Happy Holidays
ha ha ha
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2005\11\22@125741 by Jerryn/a

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In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, Jerry wrote:

I feel at home reading this thread. Sounds like college professors talking about their jobs. Each side has pet peeves than this thread has let many air them.
Here is my contribution:

  As a college professor, I see it as my "PAID" duties to help others learn. Sometimes that means giving them the page number the answer is on; sometimes looking at their work and "suggest" they try 'reading the text". Rarely is it "move over and let me do it for you".

       I ask all my students to complete the project as far as they can (using whatever knowledge and abilities they have before asking for the answer). They are to isolate the problem to one question before asking it. This way I know exactly what they are asking, and can answer their question, and not what I thought was their question.

       Yes, too many times, a student will ask a question, I think I know what they are asking, after answering it, their statement is "that's nice, BUT is not what I was asking!!!" OOPS.

    Many 'students' demand I do all the assignments on the board so all they need to do is to copy them down, turn them in, and they can feel like a design genius.

    My office partner was once sued because he would not tell the student "which key do I press so the computer will do my homework for me?" (Yes, the student took that one to court-even the judge could not believe it).

I too am a lurker, most of the time. If I see a question that looks interesting, and I have the knowledge and the time to do an answer justice, I will answer. The last one I did cost me some 30 hours to building a test rig, write the program, and test the system. I used weekends to do this (MY wife is still mad at me for spending so much time in the shop instead of taking her out). I do not have enough weekends to do this for everyone that wants my assistance. (Sorry but that is life).

Want to help?? YES. Can I help? Only sometimes.

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