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'[SX]: SX programmer'
2002\09\30@193727 by Jinx

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As a faster alternative to PIC/AVR when needs demand, I'd like
to use the SX. I've found two sources in NZ and now have to get
a programmer. Currently I use the PicStart+ / MPLAB and AVR
Studio and a home-made AVR programmer. Any recommendations
for similar tools for SX would be appreciated. Not too pricey, but
nothing that needs too much fiddling about with either. Middle-range
semi-professional I guess you'd say

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2002\09\30@195039 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
The cheaper of the 2 Parallax offerings (Blitz I think) is a pure programmer
which works fine. Too dear for what it does but available locally to you. So
small it tends to get lost. Don't apply the power backwards or plug it into
the ISP socket backwards (which is easily enough done). No debug but who
needs debug :-)

A provocative thought. Zilog sell genuine ICE's with a trace buffer at a
fraction of what anyone else sells their entry level ICE product for. Wonder
what it would take to re-engineer this for PIC/SX :-)(Somewhat akin to
someone's comparison of burning toilet rolls from public toilets to keep
warm :-) ).(TANSTAAFL)



           RM



> As a faster alternative to PIC/AVR when needs demand, I'd like
> to use the SX. I've found two sources in NZ and now have to get
> a programmer. Currently I use the PicStart+ / MPLAB and AVR
> Studio and a home-made AVR programmer. Any recommendations
> for similar tools for SX would be appreciated. Not too pricey, but
> nothing that needs too much fiddling about with either. Middle-range
> semi-professional I guess you'd say

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'[SX]: SX programmer'
2002\10\01@025556 by Also-Antal Csaba
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Jinx wrote:
>
> As a faster alternative to PIC/AVR when needs demand, I'd like
> to use the SX. I've found two sources in NZ and now have to get
> a programmer. Currently I use the PicStart+ / MPLAB and AVR
> Studio and a home-made AVR programmer. Any recommendations

Try the fluffy, I use this some year ago whith good result.

udv
Csaba

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2002\10\18@200130 by Jinx

face picon face
> Try the fluffy, I use this some year ago whith good result.
>
> udv
> Csaba

Hmmm, I've tried it today whith not so good result ;-)

I made a Fluffy2 (what a name !!) programmer and got the IC-PROG
Win9x interface to go with it. However, it won't write and gives a failure
notice for location 0000h. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. I've
checked the circuit "a few" times without finding any obvious errors.
The ZTX300500 aren't available so ZTX451/551 have been
substituted, and also the cap orientation on pin6 of the MAX232 has
been corrected, but apart from that it's as published. The DC input
is 16V, which gives 5.00V and 13.45V on the board in all the right
places

So next comes the s/w. The F84 seems to be running OK, it oscillates
and I've tried 3 with the same result. In the menu of supported devices
the SX18 isn't shown, but as the programming socket for the SX18 and
SX28 are paralleled I presume that the algorithm for the SX28 works for
the SX18 ?

And then there are the settings in IC-PROG. The I/O delay is set to 4 for
my 800MHz PC. I've tried other settings. Do any of the signal inversions
need to be set ?

Any suggestions ?

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2002\10\18@205641 by stanton54

picon face
Jinx,
I don't think there's anything wrong with the capacitor.
The ground should be on the positive side, and it should
face the same way as the rest.
IC-PROG is way too slow. The DOS program supports the
high speed interface (use -115k). I had to mess with the
source a little to get it to work in Windows.
I've used the Fluffy2 with both the SX28 and SX52 with
excellent results. If you want to use the 48 or 52 you
will have to change the programming software a little
since they have twice as much code space. The only
problem is that I use 2 9V batteries to power it and
it gobbles them up like crazy.

BTW, this is my first post to the list, please let
me know if Netscape doesn't format this properly

Jinx wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\10\18@222315 by Jinx

face picon face
>  I don't think there's anything wrong with the capacitor.
> The ground should be on the positive side, and it should
> face the same way as the rest

Yes, you're right. I hand-drew my PCB and added a few more
convenient 0V points, which meant the pin 6 cap on MY overlay
is reversed to that of fluf2pcb, but it always has been soldered in
correctly. Sorry 'bout that, my bad

>  IC-PROG is way too slow. The DOS program supports the
> high speed interface (use -115k). I had to mess with the
> source a little to get it to work in Windows

The feedback I get back now is "Out Of Retry!", which goes
on forever until you End Task, so it's.attempting to do something.
I've seen comments at other sites about IC-PROG being slow. I'll
give DOS a go

>  I've used the Fluffy2 with both the SX28 and SX52 with
> excellent results. If you want to use the 48 or 52 you
> will have to change the programming software a little
> since they have twice as much code space. The only
> problem is that I use 2 9V batteries to power it and
> it gobbles them up like crazy.

Cheers, I'll get the SX18/28 sorted out first though !

> BTW, this is my first post to the list, please let
> me know if Netscape doesn't format this properly

Looks OK to me

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2002\10\19@020900 by Also-Antal Csaba

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> Hmmm, I've tried it today whith not so good result ;-)
>
> I made a Fluffy2 (what a name !!) programmer and got the IC-PROG

That is not suport the sx type micros, just the dos sw.

> So next comes the s/w. The F84 seems to be running OK, it oscillates
> and I've tried 3 with the same result. In the menu of supported devices
> the SX18 isn't shown, but as the programming socket for the SX18 and
> SX28 are paralleled I presume that the algorithm for the SX28 works for
> the SX18 ?

Try to use the dos sw: fluffy -com1 -test, and follow the instructions.

>
> And then there are the settings in IC-PROG. The I/O delay is set to 4 for
> my 800MHz PC. I've tried other settings. Do any of the signal inversions
> need to be set ?

I have a p3-600 and working well.

udv
Csaba

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2002\10\19@023424 by James Newton, webhost

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source= http://www.piclist.com/postbot.asp?id=piclist\2002\10\18\200130a

There is a design contest at sxlist.com where you can win a VERY nice ICD
like programmer/debugger if you enter an SX based project with code that is
ready to debug.
http://www.sxlist.com/contest/starter

I personally use the SX-KEY from Parallax and have used the Kanda unit and
the SX-DEV. The SX-KEY and SX-DEV are right up there together. I have never
programmed a chip with a home built programmer, but I am planning to try the
members.rotfl.com/dturner/#Scenix%203Chip%20and%20Resources
super simple unit from the 3chip crew "real soon now"

There is a good list of SX programmers at
http://www.sxlist.com/devprogs.htm

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2002\10\19@211357 by Jinx

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> Try to use the dos sw: fluffy -com1 -test, and follow the instructions.
>

I'm tantalisingly close with the command line

fluffy demo.hex -com1 -115k -fuse 408 -fusex 07c -chip sx1828new

or

fluffy demo.hex -com1 -115k -fuse 408 -fusex 07c -chip sx1828old

==============================

using serial uart at 3f8
resetting target... ok

chip    : SX1828NEW
port    : serial   [COM1]

initialising SX chip...ok
reading configuration...

current device config:
 Device         : [fff]
 Fusex          : [fff]
 Fuse           : [fff]

erasing... done
writing fusex [07c]...ok
writing fuse  [408].....write error
fatal error

=====================================================

It always fails with Fuse - any ideas why ????

If my maths is OK I think the Fuse parameter is correct

__FUSE      equ     _FUSEBASE ^ (_TURBO | _OPTIONX | _STACKX | _IRC_4MHZ)

__FUSEX    equ     _FUSEXBASE ^ (_8BANKS | _1PAGE)

; ^ = XOR  | = IOR

; _FUSEBASE  F08 ^ (800 | 200 | 100 | 000) = F08 ^ B00 = 408

; _FUSEXBASE 070 ^ (00C | 000) = 07C

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2002\10\20@021103 by Also-Antal Csaba

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Jinx wrote:
>
> > Try to use the dos sw: fluffy -com1 -test, and follow the instructions.
> >
>
> I'm tantalisingly close with the command line

Maybe the sx chip is damaged?

udv
Csaba

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2002\10\20@032443 by Jinx

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> Maybe the sx chip is damaged?

I've tried 3 straight out of the tube, same result. Very frustrating

> udv

^^^^^^^^^

What is udv ?

> Csaba

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2002\10\20@053155 by Also-Antal Csaba

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Jinx wrote:
>
> > Maybe the sx chip is damaged?
>
> I've tried 3 straight out of the tube, same result. Very frustrating
>
> > udv
>
> ^^^^^^^^^
>
> What is udv ?

Sort form of "udvozlet" hungarian word, in english ~greeting.

udv
Csaba

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2002\10\20@140659 by stanton54

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You don't have to specify the fuse and fusex words on the command line,
they are part of the .hex file. (Those are the correct settings).
It is definitely getting into programming mode, it is quite good at
checking things. However I noticed that the hard-wired read-only DEVICE
word is showing FFF. It should always be FCE, FDE, or FEE. Also, it
thinks it's programming FUSEX but it's still just FFF.
Did you try the tests on the website (and take out the 100 ohm resistor
when you were finished?) I would be especially suspicious of the
programming voltage.
Also try changing the IRCTRIM bits - right now the oscillator is
trimmed to the minimum frequency, maybe that's confusing it. It is used
during programming.
The PINS bit is set to 18/20 pins, if you have an SX28 you'll need to
change it.
One last thing: the cable is very important with these programmers,
mine is < 6 inches long. Try using the low-speed interface - take out
the "-115k", and also do something to the PIC, I forget what...


Jinx wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\10\20@194221 by Jinx

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> You don't have to specify the fuse and fusex words on the command
> line they are part of the .hex file. (Those are the correct settings)

I left them in the command line, although I realise you put them in
if you want to over-write those in the hex file

>  It is definitely getting into programming mode, it is quite good at
> checking things. However I noticed that the hard-wired read-only DEVICE
> word is showing FFF. It should always be FCE, FDE, or FEE. Also, it
> thinks it's programming FUSEX but it's still just FFF.

>  Did you try the tests on the website (and take out the 100 ohm resistor
> when you were finished?) I would be especially suspicious of the
> programming voltage.

Yes, I ran the h/w test and have checked the PCB visually and with
a meter. Vpp is 13.4V, Vcc is 5.0V

>  Also try changing the IRCTRIM bits - right now the oscillator is
> trimmed to the minimum frequency, maybe that's confusing it. It is used
> during programming.

You're using ICSXprog.asm in the PIC ? I can see a variable ICTR but
not IRCTRIM. Am I looking in the right program ?

>  One last thing: the cable is very important with these programmers,
> mine is < 6 inches long. Try using the low-speed interface - take out
> the "-115k", and also do something to the PIC, I forget what...

Changed to 38k4 - no difference. The cable is the 2m Picstart+ and I've
also tried a shorter 2-wire with the same result. The documentation says
that 38k4 should only be necessary for > 5m cables

Much as I hate to, I'll probably be picking up an SX Blitz. I could be
tinkering around with the Fluffy all week and still not get a result, which
is simply uneconomic and just another unwelcome hassle. One day I'd
like to see it running, but probably as a back-up or giveaway

One thing that puzzles me is that the web pages say Fluffy2 will work
with IC-PROG, yet list experiences suggest it's a no-goer. That kind
of yes-it-will-no-it-won't doesn't inspire confidence, and that's nudged
me towards a commercial product

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2002\10\20@202204 by stanton54

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> >  Also try changing the IRCTRIM bits - right now the oscillator is
> > trimmed to the minimum frequency, maybe that's confusing it. It is used
> > during programming.
>
> You're using ICSXprog.asm in the PIC ? I can see a variable ICTR but
> not IRCTRIM. Am I looking in the right program ?
>

IRCTRIM is bits 11, 9, and 8 of the SX's FUSEX. 000 is the minimum
frequency
and 111 is the maximum. Each step is 3% so it's probably off quite a
bit.
The device depends on the internal RC oscillator to provide the 128 KHz
clock used during programming.
Try setting FUSEX to 37C or even B7C.

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2002\10\20@215108 by Jinx

face picon face
> The device depends on the internal RC oscillator to provide the
> 128 KHz clock used during programming.

> Try setting FUSEX to 37C or even B7C.

OK, thanks, done that. Still chokes on Fuse. Fusex is reported to have
programmed with 07c, 37c or b7c

I'm sure it's going to be something simple that will become
apparent in the fullness of time. Just for now I can't see WTF
is wrong, and I have to move on

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