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PICList Thread
'SERIAL COMMS... Sending a Null character from a t'
1997\06\05@042009 by GERRY COX

flavicon
face
Dave,

You could try typing (control + shift + @)  to your terminal emulator.
FWIW
control+ shift  + @ is b'00000000'
control + shift + A) is b'00000001'
control + shift + B  is b'00000010'
etc;
etc;

P.S. Would you let me know if it works for my own curiosity.

Gerry.
spam_OUTgcoxTakeThisOuTspamdek.com

>But the stupid terminal emulation program that I was using (Norton
>Commander's, I think) just WON'T send b'00000000'. Must be a special
>control code or something. I tried a couple of other programmes too, but
>to no avail.

See ya
-Dave
* RM 1.2  * Eval Day 560 * RoboMail -- Version 1.2 -- Available now!


'FYI: Spec for serial null-modem modular adapters'
1998\11\20@123321 by Bob Drzyzgula
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face
Hi. This is an FYI not meant for discussion (unless y'all
want). I'd just been asked for about the fifth time for the
specifications for some serial null-modem adapters that
I had made up a few months ago, so I figured I'd write
it up in a form that can be used as the starting point
for a requisition or purchase order, and put it where
people can find it. Rather than post it to all these
lists, I've put it on my pitiful website at:

       http://www.eskimo.com/~bob/serial-spec.txt

I'm just letting y'all know in case you might find
it useful. I had 200 of each of the four types made up
early this year for my office, and generally they've been
solid and reliable; I've not come across a standard, basic
null-modem application that these won't work for (they work
well on a Sun ttya console) and they do generally work in
many straight-through applications as well. We got ours
made by NuData (part of fill-in-the-blank warehouse at
http://www.warehouse.com), but pretty much any custom
cable shop  should be able to make them. In moderate
volumes, they can come out about the same or less than
pin-it-yourself parts. I suspect that others have come up
with similar designs, some of which may have significant
advantages over these. But these have worked well for us.
BTW, the only commonly used asynch signal that isn't
handled by these is RI, and both signal ground and
frame ground are provided. TC and RC are not pinned,
so these won't work for a synchronous line.

Let me know if you find something wrong or have suggestions
or problems with it.

--Bob

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============================================================

1998\11\21@123235 by Rick Richardson

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face
Bob Drzyzgula writes...
> Hi. This is an FYI not meant for discussion (unless y'all
> want). I'd just been asked for about the fifth time for the
> specifications for some serial null-modem adapters that
> I had made up a few months ago, so I figured I'd write
> it up in a form that can be used as the starting point
> for a requisition or purchase order, and put it where
> people can find it. Rather than post it to all these
> lists, I've put it on my pitiful website at:
>
>       http://www.eskimo.com/~bob/serial-spec.txt
>
> Let me know if you find something wrong or have suggestions
> or problems with it.

This is the usual configuration of RJ-xx to DB-xx adapters we use around
engineering at Digi International.  With this pinout, you just change
the *cable* you are using to connect a DTE to DCE or a DTE to DTE (in
99% of the cases).  We find its far easier to crimp a new RJ on the
end of a cable when you need a null modem than to find a matched set
of adapters.

=============================================================
   DIGI INTERNATONAL STANDARD FOR RS-232 CABLES

RJ-11   RJ-11   RJ-45   RJ-45   Signal  DB-25   DB-9
4-pin   6-pin   8-pin   10-pin  Name    Male    Male

                       1       RI      22      9
               1 bl    2       DCD     8       1
       1 or    2 or    3       RTS     4       7
1 bk    2 bk    3 bk    4       GND     shell   shell
2 rd    3 rd    4 rd    5       TxD     2       3
3 gr    4 gr    5 gr    6       RxD     3       2
4 ye    5 ye    6 ye    7       SG      7       5
       6 bn    7 bn    8       CTS     5       8
               8 gy    9       DTR     20      4
                       10      DSR     6       6

4-pin: no RTS/CTS flow control, no modem control
6-pin: RTS/CTS flow control, no modem control
8-pin: flow control, typical modem control (DTR, DCD)
10-pin: flow control, full modem control (adds DSR, RI)

*  Diagram assumes Digi "altpin" is turned on.

*  Wire colors are "typical" for RJ-45 adapters.  Your
  mileage may vary.  Check your actual adapter!

*  With this pinout, special "null modem" adapters are
  usually unnecessary.  To implement a "null modem" that
  works 99% of the time, simply crimp one RJ connector
  onto the cable the other way, making the *cable*
  "crossover" instead of "straight".  On flat silver
  satin cable, if both plastic RJ connector retaining
  tabs are on the same side of the cable it is a crossover
  cable.  If the plastic retaining tabs are on opposite
  sides of the cable it is a straight-thru cable.
=============================================================

-Rick

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'[PICLIST] null'
2001\03\07@225021 by Kevin Olalde
picon face
subject=Re:[PIC]:Unreliable POR
source= http://www.piclist.com/postbot.asp?id=piclist\2001\03\07\091552a

Thanks, this certaily seemed to help.  When I disconnected the power to the PIC, rather than disconnect the wall wart from the the 7805, I got a POR everytime.

---
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'[PICLIST] null'
2001\04\23@085525 by ram
picon face
subject=Re:[PIC]:now branching out...
source= http://www.piclist.com/postbot.asp?id=piclist\2001\04\21\150429a

Wayne wrote:

>I think what you're looking for can be found at:
>http://www.microchip.com/10/lit/suppdoc/specs/index.htm

yes, exactly! thank you. i could not find your email address
to write privately, but poking around for it at http://www.piclist.com
i came across the "Flame this Jerk" button - of no use here,
of course, but very amusing and worth knowing about.

now, about the large trout... i suggest you *get one* and keep it
handy! i may need more, er, help. :-)

thanks again.

-- rob


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'[PICLIST] null'
2001\07\04@134848 by Jeanette Eya-Zeissig
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face
subject=Re:[PIC]:Which PIC development system?
source= http://www.piclist.com/postbot.asp?id=piclist\2001\07\04\104110a

> Use the MPLAB tool set from Microchip on any 32 bit Windows platform.  The
> Microchip software is completely free and includes the assembler,
librarian,
> linker, and IDE.  There is other freeware out there, but this is the stuff
> officially supported by Microchip, so you know it will always be updated
for
{Quote hidden}

librarian,
> linker, and IDE.  There is other freeware out there, but this is the stuff
> officially supported by Microchip, so you know it will always be updated
for
> new chips and the like.  It also has nicely integrated support for their
> programmers, in circuit debuggers, and ICEs.  It's what I use for
> professional PIC development, although I did have to write wrappers around
> some of their tools so I could run them from my build system.
> ********************************************************************
> Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts


But watch out for the slug-slow simulator --- maybe that'll get better with
the 32-bit version.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

Thanks Olin and Bob for the info. I'm glad you gave it to me in baby talk. I'm not sure if the simulator in MacPIC is fast or slow since I have no basis for comparison. For my purposes it ran adequately on old 68030 machines and like a rocket on any Power PC machine. I think I know what I'm gonna do now: play it safe and go with MPLAB.
               John Zeissig




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2001\07\04@141635 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
Oh, and one more thing....

There have been conflicting reports on the ability to run the MPLAB tools on
VirtualPC on Mac.

That will also probably get better with the 32-bit code.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2001\07\04@185901 by Patrik Husfloen

picon face
Did I hear someone say 32bit..
is there an eta on that?


----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Ammerman" <@spam@RAMMERMANKILLspamspamPRODIGY.NET>
To: <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: null


{Quote hidden}

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2001\07\04@210621 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrik Husfloen" <TakeThisOuTu58611234EraseMEspamspam_OUTTELIA.COM>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: null


Did I hear someone say 32bit..  YES
is there an eta on that?  Not that I know of.

It will be discussed at the Masters.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)




----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Ammerman" <RAMMERMANEraseMEspam.....PRODIGY.NET>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: null


> Oh, and one more thing....
>
> There have been conflicting reports on the ability to run the MPLAB tools
on
{Quote hidden}

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'[PICLIST] null'
2001\09\01@152537 by Jim Brunner
picon face
subject=Re:[EE]:Need help with faulty El Cheapo
source= http://www.piclist.com/postbot.asp?id=piclist\2001\09\01\105918a


Mike, thanks for the reply.  Unfortunately I don't think that covers the problem.  I had already taken care of the 2N7000 and have it properly installed (D to the right [with the board oriented with the DB-25 connector on the left]).  The transistor is working and the output voltage clearly varies from high to low.

I also noticed the book-schematic errors with the 3906 and have installed that properly as well.  (Myke has a proper schematic in his current software.)

The problem is that the 3906 is staying active all the time.  The emitter is tied high (as it should be).  When the 2N7000 is inactive, the base of the 3906 should be high as well (via the pull up resistor R5).  The problem is that the voltage at the end of R5 is .7V "less high" than the voltage at the 3906 emitter.  Since the transistor activates at .7V, it never shuts off.

ASCII art:

+ ------------------+-------- E-3906-C ---- (output)
                   |             B
                  10K            |
                   |             1K
                   |             |
GND --- S-2N7000-D -+-------------+
            G
            |
         pin 16
        (control)

PROBLEM:  With the 2N7000 inactive, the voltage at 3906-B is .7V less than the voltage at 3906-E.  (With the 2N7000 active, there is a large voltage differential - as expected.)

I am considering moving the 1K resistor.  If the 2N7000 is sinking a small amount of current, possibly the 1K can slow it down and allow the 10K a little more of an edge.  Hopefully this would lessen the .7V to a point where the 3906 can go inactive.

The new picture would look like this:

+ ---------------------+--- E-3906-C ---- (output)
                      |        B
                     10K       |
                      |        |
                      |        |
GND -- S-2N7000-D --1K-+--------+
           G
           |
        pin 16
       (control)

I was also considering lowering the 10K resistor (what's a few milliamps between friends).

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'[OT]: Null modem cable'
2002\10\23@055318 by Jinx
face picon face
part 1 331 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)

What are the advantages / disadvantages of these two methods
of null modem wiring ? Obviously the first uses cheaper 3-wire
cable. This is the type I most commonly use after simple Tx/Rx/Gnd,
but if an unspecified null modem is called for, would the second
be advisable to cover any situation ?


part 2 2531 bytes content-type:image/gif; (decode)


part 3 105 bytes
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2002\10\23@055936 by Jinx

face picon face
> What are the advantages / disadvantages of these two methods
> of null modem wiring ?

Oh, fudge. The top wiring should show DTR going to DSR + CD
with RI unconnected

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2002\10\23@095658 by John Ferrell

face picon face
The 3-wire version is not interlocked. It will try to work even if the other
end is open. If both ends are microprocessor controlled both circuits will
probably work if the hardware is ready. If the recieve end needs some start
up time the lack of a Request to send/Clear to send delay will lead to
loosing first characters of messages.

John Ferrell
6241 Phillippi Rd
Julian NC 27283
Phone: (336)685-9606
Dixie Competition Products
NSRCA 479 AMA 4190  W8CCW
"My Competition is Not My Enemy"



{Original Message removed}

2002\10\23@135257 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
> What are the advantages / disadvantages of these two methods
> of null modem wiring ? Obviously the first uses cheaper 3-wire
> cable. This is the type I most commonly use after simple Tx/Rx/Gnd,
> but if an unspecified null modem is called for, would the second
> be advisable to cover any situation ?

       The second is more advisible in almost all situations IMHO. The first
allows for no hardware flow control. This is usually fine for low speeds but
can become useless for higher speed. While software flow control does exist
it is often not too useful since FIFO's overflow before the XOFF is
processed. For max speed the second is necessary. TTYL

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2002\10\23@142637 by Matt Heck

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face
> What are the advantages / disadvantages of these two methods
> of null modem wiring ? Obviously the first uses cheaper 3-wire
> cable. This is the type I most commonly use after simple Tx/Rx/Gnd,
> but if an unspecified null modem is called for, would the second
> be advisable to cover any situation ?

The first type will not allow hardware flow control.  Worse, it will
false-pass all hardware flow control efforts, so devices at both ends
of the line will get "suprised" by extra data after they deassert
their "ready" lines.  This will lead to buffer overruns, and if one
device on the line thinks it has hardware flow control turned on,
that buffer overrun might not even be checked for.

The second cable-- with the modifications you realized you forgot--
is more correct for most situations.

However, having said all this, I must now admit that I have a lab
FULL of measuring instruments hooked up via 3-wire RS-232, mostly
because whoever wired their internal RS-232 jacks had some really
"interesting" ideas about flow control.

So start with what is most correct, then try the 3-wire.  The WORST
cable in the world is a serial cable that crosses RX and TX but does
NOT CROSS the flow-control lines!  Any device requiring such an
abomination should be reworked.  No one on the face of the earth
should ever release such an egregious mistake.

...so make up about four cables to deal with THAT situation, too. =]

Cheers,
  Matt

PS: Your 3-wire solution does not address possible chassis ground
differrential problems, unless shield-grounded, but we'll look over
that for now. =]

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2002\10\23@170005 by Jinx

face picon face
>...so make up about four cables to deal with THAT situation, too. =]
>
>Cheers,
>  Matt

Um, 4 ? thanks !! ;-) Maybe I'll just try the second one for now, as the
s/w I'd like to use has h/w control as an option

>PS: Your 3-wire solution does not address possible chassis ground
>differrential problems, unless shield-grounded, but we'll look over
>that for now. =]

I always connect the shells together to chassis anyway to get both ends
referencing signals the same way

=====================================

The other reason for doing this is from a lesson I learned a long time
ago when I first started playing in bands. I touched a friend's American
amp that had a 2-pin mains plug while I was touching my 3-pin grounded
strings and got an unexpected and pretty hefty belt

And more recently when making or changing connections between
appliances like the stereo / VCR / TV /computer it was easy to get a
sting up a finger if you touched the chassis  and RCA cups before the
two chassis "grounds" are physically joined. I keep all the chassis
clipped together now

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2002\10\23@173612 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   However, having said all this, I must now admit that I have a lab
   FULL of measuring instruments hooked up via 3-wire RS-232, mostly
   because whoever wired their internal RS-232 jacks had some really
   "interesting" ideas about flow control.

You shouldn't REALLY need flow control until the inherent data rate of the
receiving device drops below the transmission bit rate.  This can happen on
things like printers (carriage and paper movement being much slower than
data reception), and happens all the time on modems that are "optimistic"
about the level of compression they think they can achieve (115.2kbps for
4x+ compression on a "38kbps" comm channel.)  For other sorts of devices,
you might as well just turn down the bitrate until you don't need flow
control any more (and/or complain to the vendor :-)

BillW

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2002\10\24@041059 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
I have a cable wired as per your first diagram with 9 and 25 way plugs both
ends. It has served me well as a serial Laplink cable. Also works well to
use DOS Interserver. Never yet found a necessity to have the handshake
signals except when dealing with printers, but then I have not been involved
with trying to interface other instrumentation with PC's by serial link.

>...so make up about four cables to deal with THAT situation, too. =]

Yeah, well my standard method when dealing with a "new" printer was to put a
LED "blink box" in the cable and see which lights worked from which end, and
mix and match with a breakout box.

>The other reason for doing this is from a lesson I learned
>a long time ago when I first started playing in bands. I
>touched a friend's American amp that had a 2-pin mains plug
>while I was touching my 3-pin grounded strings and got an
>unexpected and pretty hefty belt

Gives a whole new meaning to "heavy metal" :))

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2002\10\24@041313 by Rob Hamerling

flavicon
face
Jinx wrote:
> What are the advantages / disadvantages of these two methods
> of null modem wiring ? Obviously the first uses cheaper 3-wire
> cable. This is the type I most commonly use after simple Tx/Rx/Gnd,
> but if an unspecified null modem is called for, would the second
> be advisable to cover any situation ?

A null modem cable is generally used to connect 2 DTEs while each
of these 'see' the other as DCE. I suppose the devices on the
right sight of your figures behave really as DTE?
Enough said about the 3-wire cable, but I've never seen a null
modem cable like your second figure. Interconnecting CD pins is
useless, since CD is input for (each of the) DTEs. The most
universal null modem cable uses 7 wires, whereby CD is connected
to DSR of the same DTE, in addition to the cross-over of DTR-DSR.
See also Graig Peacocks site:
http://www.beyondlogic.org/serial/serial.htm, which has a separate
null modem chapter.

Regards, Rob.

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'[PIC:] Null termination of string works in MPSIM b'
2004\12\16@160322 by Greg Carlson
picon face
I'm working on a subroutine that sends a string out the USART. The
string is stored in EEPROM and the subroutine sends everything up to
the null terminator. The problem I'm having is that it works fine in
the simulator but doesn't seem to work in hardware. The code snippet
is:

set up address and such...

bsf STATUS, RP0 ; switch to bank 1
bsf EECON1, RD
movf EEDATA, W ; read the next byte in the string
bcf STATUS, RP0 ; switch back to bank 0
btfsc STATUS, Z ; check for NULL terminator
return

send the byte and loop back around...

The string being sent is:

ORG 0x2100
foo DE "This is a test", 0x83, 0x00

In the simulator, it works just fine but once I program it into the
chip (16F628A), this subroutine never returns (it's supposed to blink
an LED right after the return). After quite a bit of experimentation,
the problem seems to be the 0x83. If I replace the 0x83 with anything
that doesn't have the most significant bit set (i.e. 0x23, 0x13, etc),
it works fine in the chip.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
____________________________________________


'[PIC] Audio null project'
2005\01\24@115440 by John Gonzalez
picon face
Hello !

  I would like to build an audio system, that captures audio samples (i
think that using A/D) and then have a randomized algorithm that mixes
all the input channels (more that one) and finally having the output
going thru D/A and finally to the speaker or the amplifier. All of this
would be in real time.

  Anyways, this is just a thought, and just for fun. I would like you
to recommend me a PIC microprocessor and some dummy source code
(managing A/Ds or processing audio) to be able to do that.

 Many thanks and have fun !!
 :-)

2005\01\24@120901 by Mike Hord

picon face
>    Anyways, this is just a thought, and just for fun. I would like you
> to recommend me a PIC microprocessor and some dummy source code
> (managing A/Ds or processing audio) to be able to do that.
>
>   Many thanks and have fun !!

Look at Roman Black's audio methods.
http://www.romanblack.com/picsound.htm

Just somewhere to start.  May or may not fit your needs.

2005\01\24@120952 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
John Gonzalez wrote :

> I would like to build an audio system, that captures audio
> samples (i think that using A/D) and then have a randomized
> algorithm that mixes all the input channels (more that one)
> and finally having the output going thru D/A and finally to
> the speaker or the amplifier. All of this would be in real time.
>
> Anyways, this is just a thought, and just for fun. I would
> like you to recommend me a PIC microprocessor...

If you *realy* are after som "fun", you could check the dsPIC
line of processors. Maybe the dsPIC30F4013 from the
"General Purpose" family. Fast (100 K samples/sec) ADC
and supports the I2S and AC97 Codec interfaces.

Jan-Erik.




2005\01\25@061946 by John Gonzalez

picon face

>If you *realy* are after som "fun", you could check the dsPIC
>line of processors. Maybe the dsPIC30F4013 from the
>"General Purpose" family. Fast (100 K samples/sec) ADC
>and supports the I2S and AC97 Codec interfaces.
>
>Jan-Erik.
>  
>
Well i have check dsPIC, they look like fun, but i have some troubles now.

1) Where could i get a dsPIC compiler, with a small budget, not having
to go to warez places ? i like GPL. Anyways what compiler could i use ?
Microchip C30, what else? CCS ?
gpasm ?

2) Are there compilers for GNU/Linux systems with dsPIC support ?

3) This i know i could read it somewhere, could i use ICD2 to debug
dsPIC ? Any software that help me with dsPIC ? any source code to use
dsPIC ?

I hope not to bother anyone with this questions, are very elemental, but
here they are...

Cheers !

2005\01\25@064654 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


{Quote hidden}

The Microchip compiler is based on GCC, and hence open source.  However,
IIRC their optimiser is proprietry and is not open source.
www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1
406&dDocName=en010065&part=SW006012

>3) This i know i could read it somewhere, could i use ICD2 to debug
>dsPIC ? Any software that help me with dsPIC ? any source code to use
>dsPIC ?

Yes, the ICD2 has support for the dsPIC.

Regards

Mike

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'[EE]: Freeware virtual com port w/ null modem'
2006\08\24@171038 by Vitaliy
flavicon
face
Does anyone, by any chance, know where I can find a *free* piece of software
that can simulate two COM ports connected with a null modem? It needs to
work under Win XP.

2006\08\24@181735 by Steve Smith

flavicon
face
bray.velenje.cx/avr/terminal

Try that one its reasonable just run it twice one for each port

Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: .....piclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamMIT.EDU [TakeThisOuTpiclist-bounces.....spamTakeThisOuTMIT.EDU] On Behalf Of
Vitaliy
Sent: 24 August 2006 22:11
To: piclist
Subject: [EE]: Freeware virtual com port w/ null modem

Does anyone, by any chance, know where I can find a *free* piece of software

that can simulate two COM ports connected with a null modem? It needs to
work under Win XP.

2006\08\24@234906 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Steve Smith wrote:

> http://bray.velenje.cx/avr/terminal
>
> Try that one its reasonable just run it twice one for each port
>

Steve -- thanks, I'll give it a try.

Best regards,

Vitaliy

2006\08\25@023419 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Does anyone, by any chance, know where I can find a *free*
> piece of software
> that can simulate two COM ports connected with a null modem?
> It needs to work under Win XP.

A short time ago I asked for software that could simulate a COM port
over Ethernet. One of the software packages that was meantioned could do
that: create a virtiual null modem.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\08\25@153520 by John van der Putte

picon face
Maybe this is what you want:

http://www.mks.zp.ua/vspdxp.php

Puffeltje

2006/8/24, Vitaliy <TakeThisOuTspamKILLspamspamspammaksimov.org>:
>
> Does anyone, by any chance, know where I can find a *free* piece of
> software
> that can simulate two COM ports connected with a null modem? It needs to
> work under Win XP.
>
> -

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