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PICList Thread
'[PICLIST] MCU circuits and the FCC'
2000\06\18@113757 by John Pearson

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I want to sell some mcu circuits, I hope about 24 per year. They would be
installed mostly in households. I was wondering how the FCC might be
involved with this. I am sure someone knows all about this. If you could
fill me in on some of the details I would be gratefull.

Thanks
John

2000\06\18@130704 by Ed Edmondson

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John,

Have a look at FCC Part 15?  It covers most of the conducted and radiated
emissions limits.  AFAIK, if you sell it has to meet these specs or the FCC
can put you out of business.

Ed

2000\06\18@134304 by Dan Michaels

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At 08:30 AM 06/18/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>I want to sell some mcu circuits, I hope about 24 per year. They would be
>installed mostly in households. I was wondering how the FCC might be
>involved with this. I am sure someone knows all about this. If you could
>fill me in on some of the details I would be gratefull.
>
>Thanks
>John
>

Start at:
http://www.hallikainen.com/rw/

2000\06\18@144641 by Bob Blick

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>I want to sell some mcu circuits, I hope about 24 per year. They would be
>installed mostly in households. I was wondering how the FCC might be
>involved with this.

Yeah, easy question. Call them test equipment and they are exempt.
Otherwise abandon the project because it isn't worth while to certify 24
units.

-Bob

2000\06\18@172301 by Harold Hallikainen
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And you can read part 15 at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules

On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 13:05:08 EDT Ed Edmondson <spam_OUTEaejrphdTakeThisOuTspamAOL.COM> writes:
> John,
>
> Have a look at FCC Part 15?  It covers most of the conducted and
> radiated
> emissions limits.  AFAIK, if you sell it has to meet these specs or
> the FCC
> can put you out of business.
>
> Ed

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'[PICLIST] MCU circuits and the FCC, 2nd question'
2000\06\18@175635 by John Pearson

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From sec 15-103, Exempt Devices, it appears that if I am under 1.7Mhz, and
operate from a battery, but not operate while recharging from AC adapter, I
could be exempt?

Copied from Hallikainen.com:
'
(h) Digital devices in which both the highest frequency generated and the
highest frequency used are less than 1.705 MHz and which do not operate
from the AC power lines or contain[[Page 670]] provisions for operation
while connected to the AC power lines. Digital devices that include, or
make provision for the use of, battery eliminators, AC adaptors or battery
chargers which permit operation while charging or that connect to the AC
power lines indirectly, obtaining their power through another device which
is connected to the AC power lines, do not fall under this exemption.
'

2000\06\19@072840 by mike

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On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 14:58:35 -0700, you wrote:

>>From sec 15-103, Exempt Devices, it appears that if I am under 1.7Mhz, and
>operate from a battery, but not operate while recharging from AC adapter, I
>could be exempt?
>
>Copied from Hallikainen.com:
>'
>(h) Digital devices in which both the highest frequency generated and the
>highest frequency used are less than 1.705 MHz and which do not operate
>from the AC power lines or contain[[Page 670]] provisions for operation
>while connected to the AC power lines. Digital devices that include, or
>make provision for the use of, battery eliminators, AC adaptors or battery
>chargers which permit operation while charging or that connect to the AC
>power lines indirectly, obtaining their power through another device which
>is connected to the AC power lines, do not fall under this exemption.
>'
But presumably the 1.705MHz includes harmonics?
If I fed a 74AC device with 1MHz and connected the output to a long
wire I'm sure it would radiate like hell.

2000\06\21@165711 by Phillip Vogel

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John Pearson wrote:
>
> >From sec 15-103, Exempt Devices, it appears that if I am under 1.7Mhz, and
> operate from a battery, but not operate while recharging from AC adapter, I
> could be exempt?

I doubt it. The key here is 'highest frequency generated'. Even though your
xtal
says 1.7 MHz, there are still harmonics, and they'll look at at least the
tenth
harmonic of your fundamental.

I wonder who's using 1.705 MHz and bribed ^H^H^H^H^H^H talked the FCC into
this
exemption?

Phil
--
Phillip M. Vogel, President   | "It's not what you've been taught,
Bartal Design Group, Inc.     |  it's what you've learned." (me)
318 Marlboro Road             | +1-201-567-1343 FAX:+1-201-568-2891
Englewood, NJ 07631  USA      | .....phillipKILLspamspam@spam@bartal.com

2000\06\22@042500 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I wonder who's using 1.705 MHz and bribed ^H^H^H^H^H^H talked
>the FCC into this exemption?

Sounds like someone wanting to be able to feed into AM radios for a drive in
movie???

2000\06\22@071558 by Bob Ammerman

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I think the FCC thinks of 1.705 as the top-end of the AM band, and so they
set their limit there.

btw: I was reading Part 15 where it said the exemption was for products
which _used_ no frequency about 1.705 MHz. One message in this thread
asserted that would include harmonics of the PIC clock. I am sure that the
term "used" is defined explicitly in the regs somewhere. Does anybody know
where?


Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(high performance, high function, low-level software)

2000\06\22@102214 by Harold M Hallikainen

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On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:55:02 -0400 Phillip Vogel <phillipspamKILLspamBARTAL.COM>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

       Since 15.103(h) specifically states "digital device", which obviously
use pulses, which have infinite harmonics, I believe the exemption refers
to the clock frequency, discounting harmonics. The actual rule is
available at
www.hallikainen.com/cgi-bin/section.pl?section=15.103
       It's interesting that there is no Federal Register history listed at the
bottom of the rule. A search of the Federal Register (1994-present) turns
up only mentions of the rule, not any real discussion. A search of the
FCC's website for mentions of the rule (using CiteSearch at
http://hallikainen.com/FccRules) also turns up nothing. It'll take a bit
more research (probably thru the Federal Register) to find some
discussion regarding the writing of the rule.
       The choice of 1.705 MHz is, I believe, due to it being the top of the AM
broadcast band (see 73.14 at
http://www.hallikainen.com/cgi-bin/section.pl?section=73.14). I'm
surprised there's not FR mention in the rule of the expansion of the AM
broadcast band.
       So, my guess is that the interpretation that digital devices with a
clock of 1.705 MHz or less with no connection to the AC power line is
correct.

Harold


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