Post by thread:[PICLIST] IrDA

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PICList Thread
'More IRDA'
1995\06\12@094046 by Andre Breytenbach

With all the talk on IrDA I browsed through the tech manual of an Intel high integration Pentium motherboard with IrDA interface on board. On this board you can redirect COM2 to the IrDA port and then use standard communication software to communicate via the IR port - at a distance of up to 1M (ONLY?). The hardware interface to the transceiver module consists of TX, RX, +5V and GND lines. May it be that these could be RS232-like signals that need buffering and/or inversion? Any ideas out there? Andre Breytenbach Voice: (27) 12 803 7680 Fax: (27) 12 803 8294 ___________________________________________________ The opinions expressed herein is my very own and does not reflect that of any other person or company. ___________________________________________________

1995\06\13@134633 by David Boulton

I don't want to throw cold water on people's cool ideas, but everyone needs to realize that IrDA is more than just a simple IR modem. There is a specific comm protocol involved. The protocol takes about 6 to 8 Kbytes when coded in assembler. It also requires some reasonable sized buffers (several hundred bytes). It doesn't sound to me like this is going to be very appealing on a PIC with max 4K instructions. Of course you could use IrDA hardware without the software for your own projects, but the cool thing about IrDA is inter-operation of different devices. For that you need the protocols. Dave --- David Boulton | knowledge is just a polite spam_OUTboultonTakeThisOuTnetcom.com | term for dead, Peregrine Associates | but not buried imagination. POB 1385 Redwood City, CA 94064 | -- e.e. cummings

'Some IRDA info'
1995\06\14@211130 by James L. Johnson

I have a little information on the HP IRDA solution. HP offers an IR transceiver, the HSDL-1000 and sells for less than $5 in big quantities. This is a 115.2 kbit device and operates from 5V. My sources tell me that HP is working on a new one which will be a 3V version and will be a 4 Mbit device. I don't have an expected release date on it. Below is a press release which came out last year announcing a joint venture with Microsoft on the software for such a product. I think there is a marketing/sales pitch for these products which will be hitting the road soon - to be given in Europe and Asia. I may have more on that later. Jim Johnson .....jjohnsonKILLspam@spam@hpl.hp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Larry Sennett Hewlett-Packard Company (408) 553-2916 Kelly Stremel Waggener Edstrom for Microsoft Corp. (503) 245-0905 HP AND MICROSOFT TO DEVELOP INFRARED COMMUNICATIONS SOLUTIONS FOR MICROSOFT'S WINDOWS 95 OPERATING SYSTEM. PALO ALTO, Calif., Dec. 12, 1994 -- Hewlett-Packard Company and Microsoft Corp. today said they are developing an infrared communications solution to address the growing needs for low-cost, wireless communication between PCs and printers and other peripheral products. The software solution is being designed for PCs and peripherals with IrDA(1) - compliant infrared ports that use Microsoft's Windows 95 operating systems. The IrDA, which has more than 90 members, including HP and Microsoft, has defined an industry specification for infrared communications to help ensure interoperability between devices, regardless of product type or brand. According to IrDA President Mike Watson, the work being conducted by HP and Microsoft will help motivate and critical mass of IrDA-compliant devices in 1995. "The test for any standard is whether it can be moved from a paper specification to a variety of interoperable products the customers can buy," said Watson. "This announcement from HP and Microsoft will give a big boost to IrDA's efforts to achieve this goal in the near term." Infrared interoperability will provide users with "point-and-shoot" file transfer, printing and other communication capabilities without requiring cables or other awkward accessories. "HP's leadership in the area of infrared technology will continue with a variety of IrDA-compliant products, from desktop PCs and mobile computers to printers and other peripherals," said Richard C. Watts, vice president and general manager of HP's Personal Products Group. "Our overall goal for the Windows 95 Mobile Services is to make using PCs away from the desk easier and more powerful for everyone," said Brad Chase, general manager in Microsoft's Personal Systems Group. "With an IrDA standard in place, we believe infrared technology can play a key role in delivering this promise to our customers. This arrangement with HP helps ensure that full-featured, IR-based connectivity will be available to every user of Windows 95". "Today's mobile PC users desperately want a low-cost, hassle-free way to transfer files, print on-the-go and quickly share information between devices," said Andy Seybold, editor of Outlook on Mobile Computing. "Infrared communication looks like the best and nearest-term solution to fill those needs." HP began using an infrared interface in calculators during the mid-1980s and now includes the technology in its handheld, desktop and mobile PCs, including the recently introduced HP Omnibook 600 and Omnibook 4000 PC notebooks. Last June, HP licensed its serial infrared interface to other industry standard for infrared communications. Founded in 1975, Microsoft (NASDAQ: "MSFT") is the worldwide leader in software for personal computers. The company offers a wide range of products and services for business and personal use, each designed with the mission of making it easier and more enjoyable for people to take advantage of the full power of personal computing every day. Hewlett-Packard Company is a leading global manufacturer of computing, communications and measurement products and services recognized for excellence in quality and support. HP has 98,400 employees and had revenues of $25 billion in its 1994 fiscal year. ### Microsoft is a US registered trademark and Windows is a trademark of Microsoft Corp. ________________________________________ (1) IrDA stands for Infrared Data Associations

'More IRDA information'
1995\06\15@124613 by James L. Johnson

I have more info on the IRDA devices that people have asked about in the past few days. I received a pile of data sheets from the local HP marketing guy including a preliminary sheet on the 4Mbit part. Let me know if you have specific questions or if you want me to Snailmail a data sheet to you, or FAX it. The marketing guy says: "HP will be putting on a series of IR seminars in Europe in the month of July. For more information please contact your local European sales office or Sybilla Reck at 49-7031-14-2577." Jim Johnson jjohnsonKILLspamhpl.hp.com

'Another IRDA source'
1995\06\21@134408 by Doug Smith

Another possible way to do IRDA is with the CS8130 chip from Crystal Simicondutor. They faxed over specs and sent a data book and it looks pretty good. The chip will do IRDA and a few other IR protocols. There is an evaluation board available but I haven't ordered mine yet. I'll let you know more about it after I get one to play with. Here is the contact person who sent me the information... > Brent Wilson > Infrared Applications Engineer > Crystal Semiconductor Corp. > email: .....bwwKILLspam.....crystal.cirrus.com > Tel: 512 912 3554 > Fax: 512 445 2831 > t/f: 800 888 5016 ext 3554 -- Doug Smith, SGA * Loves Park, IL * dougs%EraseMEsgaspam_OUTTakeThisOuTwheaton.wheaton.edu AppleLink: G0231 * CompuServe: 72727,3532

'HP & IRDA'
1995\06\22@085049 by Harrison Cooper

Thought this might be of interest for those of you talking (writing ?) about HP and IRDA. EET just had an article on net surfing and mentioned IR info available on the HP page called "access HP". Couldn't quite make out all the address but might start with http://www.hp.com Harrison Cooper Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp hcooperspam_OUTes.com

'IrDA on PC (was :Re: IrDA on PIC)'
1997\04\03@020236 by Wolfram Liebchen

At 11:55 03.04.97 +0930, Mike Smith wrote: >Where did you find the info on how to get the PC motherboard to work with >it? My *bios* has support, but I can find no data on h/w support for it. > >MikeS > Some mainboards (at least ASUS) have a connector, where you can attach a little daughter board (2 x 1 inch) with the IrDA transceiver. It's described in the board manual, but one seems not able to buy it. It contains almost only the Hewlett Packard IR modul, therefor you can build it yourself. regards, Wolfram +-----------------------------------------------------+ | Wolfram Liebchen | | Forschungsinstitut fŸr Optik, TŸbingen, Deutschland | | @spam@liebchenKILLspamffo.fgan.de | +-----------------------------------------------------+

1997\04\03@041753 by tefan Ranguelov

> At 11:55 03.04.97 +0930, Mike Smith wrote: > >Where did you find the info on how to get the PC motherboard to work with > >it? My *bios* has support, but I can find no data on h/w support for it. > > > >MikeS > > > > Some mainboards (at least ASUS) have a connector, where you can attach a > little > daughter board (2 x 1 inch) with the IrDA transceiver. > It's described in the board manual, but one seems not able to buy it. > It contains almost only the Hewlett Packard IR modul, therefor you can > build it > yourself. You can also build an adapter from the standard RS232 to IRDA. For sending data it has to generate shorter impulses and for recieving it expands the pulse length, so the RS232 can recognize 0 or 1. There is a special HP chip for this. The only problem is, the time values depend on the baud rate, and a standatd RS232 has no bit takt avaible. So you have to use a trick and first tell the converter chip the baud rate. This means you need special software... St.

1997\04\03@092613 by Tom Handley

re: IRDA Stefan, I have the HP evaluation boards. The problem with adding it to the pc's serial port is that you need to generate a 16X baud rate. You can get a Windows IRDA driver from Microsoft for free. Most of the newer I/O chip sets support IRDA. I have'nt tried to interface the HP boards to Windows yet. When I get the time, I intend to interface them to a PIC 16C73. When/if I do, I'll be glad to share the info. - Tom At 11:15 AM 4/3/97 +0200, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>> At 11:55 03.04.97 +0930, Mike Smith wrote: >> >Where did you find the info on how to get the PC motherboard to work with >> >it? My *bios* has support, but I can find no data on h/w support for it. >> > >> >MikeS >> > >> >> Some mainboards (at least ASUS) have a connector, where you can attach a >> little >> daughter board (2 x 1 inch) with the IrDA transceiver. >> It's described in the board manual, but one seems not able to buy it. >> It contains almost only the Hewlett Packard IR modul, therefor you can >> build it >> yourself. > >You can also build an adapter from the >standard RS232 to IRDA. For sending >data it has to generate shorter impulses >and for recieving it expands the pulse >length, so the RS232 can recognize 0 or 1. > >There is a special HP chip for this. >The only problem is, the time values depend >on the baud rate, and a standatd RS232 has >no bit takt avaible. > >So you have to use a trick and first tell >the converter chip the baud rate. This >means you need special software... > > > >St.

'slightly [OT] - light pipes and IRDA'
1998\02\12@114020 by Steve Lawther

Has anybody used light pipes OR optical fibre to route the IR from IRDA? Does it work? What company's products should I look at? Are there (very) cheap light splitters or combiners available? It's indirectly PIC related -> on the end of each IRDA is planned to be a PIC. Steve Lawther

1998\02\12@120015 by Keith Howell

Steve Lawther wrote: > > It's indirectly PIC related > on the end of each IRDA is planned to be a PIC. > PICs running IrDA? Are you sure they're up to it? I looked at the specs once and went right off using IrDA. For one, it is too complex to be simply described and implemented. I'd guess about as complex as a Zmodem or TCP/IP driver. You require data buffers, and IRDA runs up to 115kBaud (standard) or 4MBaud (enhanced). Fine for a typical PC, but not really suited to consumer electronics like hi-fi, TV, etc. A cleverer chap than I put some document on the net describing all sorts of flaws in the protocol, entitled "101 reasons why IRDA should be laughed out of the room" or similar. I suspect quite a few consumer goods with IRDA ports just run as half- duplex RS232 ports. Comments?

1998\02\12@140810 by Darryl Newberry

>> PICs running IrDA? Are you sure they're up to it? I looked at the specs [snip] >of flaws in the protocol, entitled "101 reasons why IRDA should be >laughed out of the room" or similar. I suspect quite a few consumer >goods with IRDA ports just run as half- duplex RS232 ports. [snip] http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/misc/irda-flaws.html -dn

1998\02\12@184126 by Andrew Warren

Keith Howell <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote: > A cleverer chap than I put some document on the net describing all > sorts of flaws in the protocol, entitled "101 reasons why IRDA > should be laughed out of the room" or similar. It was written by Donald Becker; the actual title is "IrDA IrLAP Standard Critique, or Why IrDA Should Be Laughed Out of Town". You can find it at: http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/misc/irda-flaws.html Mr. Becker has a lot of useful IRDA information on his web site... After you've read his critique, you can see the rest of it at: http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/misc/irda.html -Andy === Andrew Warren - RemoveMEfastfwdTakeThisOuTix.netcom.com === Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California === http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1998\02\13@055049 by Steve Lawther

Sorry to confuse, When I said IRDa, I meant IRDa compatible transceiver MODULES - I didn't mean that I was using the protocol! As spamBeGonedarrylspamBeGoneBLAZIE.COM's link pointed out, the least stressful way to use IRDa Modules, is to make it look like a comm port (with a high bit error rate!), and forget the protocol The idea was to pipe the IR from a master transmitter to multiple slaves, and receive the answers back from the slaves combined on another fibre pipe. (a bit like 4 wire RS485 with 1 master, multiple slaves) Steve Lawther ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: slightly [OT] - light pipes and IRDA Author: MIME:TakeThisOuTkeithhEraseMEspam_OUTARCAM.CO.UK at INTERNET-HUSKY Date: 12/02/98 17:09 Steve Lawther wrote: > > It's indirectly PIC related > on the end of each IRDA is planned to be a PIC. > PICs running IrDA? Are you sure they're up to it? I looked at the specs once and went right off using IrDA. For one, it is too complex to be simply described and implemented. I'd guess about as complex as a Zmodem or TCP/IP driver. You require data buffers, and IRDA runs up to 115kBaud (standard) or 4MBaud (enhanced). Fine for a typical PC, but not really suited to consumer electronics like hi-fi, TV, etc. A cleverer chap than I put some document on the net describing all sorts of flaws in the protocol, entitled "101 reasons why IRDA should be laughed out of the room" or similar. I suspect quite a few consumer goods with IRDA ports just run as half- duplex RS232 ports. Comments?

'Still searching IrDA-software for PIC's'
1999\01\19@165124 by Goovaerts

Still searching for people who have IrDA-example code or IrDA experience !!!! Anyone ?? Glenn Goovaerts

1999\01\21@103031 by Cheney, Joseph

Hi Glenn, I've done quite a lot of work with IrDA and pic's; mainly using HP's HSDL-series of components ( cheapand reliable!!! ) - was there anything in particular you wanted to know?? JC -----Original Message----- From: Goovaerts [RemoveMEgoofy1TakeThisOuTGLO.BE] Sent: 19 January 1999 21:31 To: PICLISTEraseME.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Still searching IrDA-software for PIC's Still searching for people who have IrDA-example code or IrDA experience !!!! Anyone ?? Glenn Goovaerts

'[SOT] IrDA interface circuit'
1999\03\29@055446 by D. Schouten

Hi All, I'm looking for a circuit (probably containing some kind of uC) which adds IrDA capabilities to my PC. I want to experiment with optical communication between my PC and a PIC controlled external hardware device. Any Ideas? Thanks Daniel...

1999\03\29@100030 by Mark Willis

Halted has an ISA card (IBM unit) for $19.95 IIRC that does that. http://www.halted.com/specials/pc.htm If you get one, I need another PCMCIA one, I'll split it with you maybe? (If they don't ship to .NL, I could do that, too.) Mark D. Schouten wrote: {Quote hidden}> > Hi All, > > I'm looking for a circuit (probably containing some kind of uC) which > adds IrDA capabilities to my PC. I want to experiment with optical > communication between my PC and a PIC controlled external hardware > device. > > Any Ideas? > > Thanks > > Daniel...

1999\03\29@110309 by Wagner Lipnharski

There are few external solutions to add IrDA to PC's, including the new motherboards already come from factory with all the necessary chips on-board. Some of those motherboards you just need to plug the IrDA transceiver (that goes on the PC front panel). Note that just plug the transceiver is not enough to communicate via IrDA. There are three possible ways to physically communicate via IrDA chips. Raw mode, ASK and IrDA. The Raw mode is purelly an infra-red signal, like the TV remotes, the ASK can use high frequency communication but still in somekind of raw (with or without checking characters), while IrDA itself is a new subset of the HDLC, a high level communication protocol with several software layers and controls. Windows (Microsoft) offers a software package to use IrDA at your PC under Win95/98, but it uses the regular IrDA procotol for printers and notebooks (only). For a simple communication between a PC and a PIC, you can use the raw or ASK mode that would be plenty. Remember that IrDA recomendations produces devices that can only communicate in a cone of aprox 20 to 30¡, in a maximum of 1.5-3 meters distance. Remember that you would need to write the software for both sides, PIC and PC. For IrDA chips (transceivers and UARTs) take a look at HP and Cirrus (Crystal) company. Temic (Telefunken) also produce those devices (TFDS3000/4000 and TOIM3232) but they have a BIG delivery problem for quantities lower than a full reel.

1999\03\29@135734 by ry (Nahum Tchernihhovsky)

I am looking for such a solution too. It will be nice to use a palmtop to transfer data from a PC to a PIC controlled system. Cherry <EraseMEcherry.nvisonic.com> "D. Schouten" <RemoveMEdanielsEraseMEEraseMEXS4ALL.NL> on 29/03/99 13:50:36 Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> To: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: (bcc: Nachum Tchernichovski/Visonic Ltd.) Subject: [SOT] IrDA interface circuit Hi All, I'm looking for a circuit (probably containing some kind of uC) which adds IrDA capabilities to my PC. I want to experiment with optical communication between my PC and a PIC controlled external hardware device. Any Ideas? Thanks Daniel...

1999\03\29@142023 by Wagner Lipnharski

I guess there is no ready solution in software (Win95/98) from microsoft or toshiba (or other) to allow you to stablish a simple raw infrared link or at least ASK link. All of them were designed to use the Microsoft IrDA standards, so you would need to write your own Windows or PC-DOS software to drive the transceiver, except if you want to develop all the IrDA HDLC at the PIC, what sincerelly I don't recomend. "Cherry (Nahum Tchernihhovsky)" wrote: {Quote hidden}> > I am looking for such a solution too. It will be nice to use a palmtop to > transfer data from a PC to a PIC controlled system. > Cherry <EraseMEcherry.nspamspamBeGonevisonic.com> > > "D. Schouten" <RemoveMEdanielsKILLspamXS4ALL.NL> on 29/03/99 13:50:36 > > Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list > <PICLISTSTOPspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> > > To: spamBeGonePICLISTSTOPspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU > cc: (bcc: Nachum Tchernichovski/Visonic Ltd.) > Subject: [SOT] IrDA interface circuit > > Hi All, > > I'm looking for a circuit (probably containing some kind of uC) which > adds IrDA capabilities to my PC. I want to experiment with optical > communication between my PC and a PIC controlled external hardware > device. > > Any Ideas? > > Thanks > > Daniel...

1999\03\29@143641 by Mark Willis

Has anyone implemented ZModem on a PIC yet? At least XModem or YModem? Something where you just use the IrDA port as a serial "wired" link works just fine between my various laptops (Heck, I just use InterLink & InterServer!) I do "Zip" files up so I can tell if I get an error, because not everything transmits over correctly - on occasion. Really handy for my one laptop that doesn't have a floppy yet & which I haven't gotten PCMCIA Card & Socket Services installed into yet (Need to install Windows first. GRRR. Don't get me started. <G>) Seems to me you could try to treat this as a somewhat "noisy", wired connection, as that's what I've been able to do with it here, make some kind of half-smart protocol where the PIC occasionally pings the PC and only if the PC responds does the PIC try to establish a link, and then ZModem exchange your information. {Half duplex is probably a better idea than full duplex <G>} Error checking and NAKing is easy enough... I've done that often enough in Dos that I'd use Dos (I've done it in Windows, too, but the Dos app's just LOTS easier to do, more reliable, and far smaller - you can get a PC110 or the like and multi-boot it to Dos easily enough. Use Windows if you prefer, just stating MY preference <G>) Mark Wagner Lipnharski wrote: > > I guess there is no ready solution in software (Win95/98) from microsoft > or toshiba (or other) to allow you to stablish a simple raw infrared > link or at least ASK link. All of them were designed to use the > Microsoft IrDA standards, so you would need to write your own Windows or > PC-DOS software to drive the transceiver, except if you want to develop > all the IrDA HDLC at the PIC, what sincerelly I don't recomend. > <snipped>

1999\03\29@145314 by Wagner Lipnharski

Well, CRC16 is a great link check and can be easily implemented with a minimum cpu overhead. A PC-DOS program to transfer and receive files is something quite easier to produce, except if you want to go for root directories and tree structures...yack!... The ready made IrDA links for PC is not so expensive and the hardware control is just somehow an UART. You can also implement your own IrDA hardware, a simple TOIM3232, xtal 3.57MHz + TFDS3000 from Temic and a couple of resistors, this is everything you need, well, you need to connect it to an UART, and it is ttl level, so you would need a MAX232 or brute force with a 74HCT04... it works and works well. I use something like that to program/test a portable device we have with IrDA. This set could less than $20.00, I don't know how much cost the ready made IrDA for PC's... Wagner Mark Willis wrote: {Quote hidden}> > Has anyone implemented ZModem on a PIC yet? At least XModem or > YModem? > > Something where you just use the IrDA port as a serial "wired" link > works just fine between my various laptops (Heck, I just use InterLink & > InterServer!) I do "Zip" files up so I can tell if I get an error, > because not everything transmits over correctly - on occasion. Really > handy for my one laptop that doesn't have a floppy yet & which I haven't > gotten PCMCIA Card & Socket Services installed into yet (Need to install > Windows first. GRRR. Don't get me started. <G>) > > Seems to me you could try to treat this as a somewhat "noisy", wired > connection, as that's what I've been able to do with it here, make some > kind of half-smart protocol where the PIC occasionally pings the PC and > only if the PC responds does the PIC try to establish a link, and then > ZModem exchange your information. {Half duplex is probably a better > idea than full duplex <G>} Error checking and NAKing is easy enough... > I've done that often enough in Dos that I'd use Dos (I've done it in > Windows, too, but the Dos app's just LOTS easier to do, more reliable, > and far smaller - you can get a PC110 or the like and multi-boot it to > Dos easily enough. Use Windows if you prefer, just stating MY > preference <G>) > > Mark

'[OT] Re: IRDA parts, reels, and humidity'
1999\08\12@175707 by paulb

Bob Drzyzgula wrote: > He had enabled power management on his PC, but for whatever reason the > peltier didn't shut down along with the CPU. Doesn't the Peltier, since it takes a couple of amps, plug into the Disk Drive harness directly from the SMPS? That only shuts down when you give the ATX power supply the "turnoff" command. -- Cheers, Paul B.

'Information sought on PIC - PC IRDAinterface'
2000\01\24@190935 by Russell McMahon

I received this message today. I will reply to the sender directly but thought others who have worked with PIC & IRDA (which I have not done formally) may be willing to comment to him directly Please send comments to - KILLspamA.WRIGHTspamBeGonebham-eee-fs4.bham.ac.uk regards Russell McMahon _____________________________ From: E145 (A.WRIGHT) <EraseMEA.WRIGHTEraseMEbham-eee-fs4.bham.ac.uk> Subject: pic irda {Quote hidden}>Dear Sir > I am a university student trying to get to grips with the final stages >of a final year project. I am trying to make > > a mobile storage device from a pic and some memory, and then transfer >the data to a PC irda port by > interfacing a hp HSDL 1001 transciever. > > I got your name and address from a PIC newsgroup page, and wondered if >you could help me. > > I'm not sure whether to use a usart on the PIC or not, and what advantages >this would give me. > > I wouyld be grateful for any ideas or suggestions that you could provide > > Yours thankfully > > Andrew Wright >

'[PICLIST] Adding IrDa to motherboard'
2000\08\18@143353 by Peter L. Peres

I think that this link is very relevant: http://www.daniel-hertrich.de/ir_dev/index.html Note that you can roll your own without a HSDL chip. It will be slower and work only over shorter distances (1 ft) ;) Note that the author did NOT use the port in IrDa mode so the HSDL will work also for non-IrDa signals. It is just a smart analog front end. Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]: PIC only [EE]: engineering [OT]: off topic [AD]: advertisements

'[PICLIST] IrDA'
2000\10\20@061413 by Victor Ong

Hi, Anyone has any information / source code for implementing IrDA on a PIC chip? Any help, info or source of information would greatly help. Thanks. Victor -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2000\10\20@095953 by M. Adam Davis

I've seen one website where they were implementing it, but I cannot remember where it is now. It was not US based, though. Maybe russian... (the page was in English... It is really wonderful (for me) how so many foreign people put their pages in both english and their native language. Makes me wonder why the US doesn't push secondary languages as much as in other countries.... (aside from the fact that we're stuck up and all)) -Adam Victor Ong wrote: {Quote hidden}> > Hi, > > Anyone has any information / source code for implementing IrDA on a PIC > chip? Any help, info or source of information would greatly help. Thanks. > > Victor > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2000\10\23@071312 by Scott Dattalo

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Victor Ong wrote: > Anyone has any information / source code for implementing IrDA on a PIC > chip? Any help, info or source of information would greatly help. Thanks. Have you checked Scenix's web site? Scott -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList @spam@piclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@spam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

'[SX]: Irda VP doesn't establish the connection wit'
2000\11\11@184930 by Frank

Hi there, I have given a try to the AN16, which is the Irda VP for SX28 on the Scenix web site. I could make the chip to reply to commands in SX2SX mode, however the two other applications (transparent and SX2PC) are completely dead. The application note specifies 115.2k com. speed for the uart (debug port) but it actually worked at 38.4k. Are there more catches? I would appreciate your comments and experience with it. Thanks. Ferenc Vereb spamBeGonefverebKILLspamhotmail.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! use .....listservspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu?bodyT%20PICList%20DIGEST

'[PIC]: PIC with SX irda stack'
2000\11\11@194908 by Frank

Hi there, Some projects included PIC micros attached to SX with Irda stack on it at PIC archives. I am also running my code on PIC and using the SX Irda VP for the IR interface, however there is no communication established with windows. I wonder if anybody could get it working in those projects. I would appreciate any comments and experience with it. Thanks. Ferenc Vereb TakeThisOuTfvereb.....TakeThisOuThotmail.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! use TakeThisOuTlistservKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu?bodyT%20PICList%20DIGEST

2000\11\12@001146 by Randy Glenn

You've taken the SX IRDA code to a PIC? Did you not know that the license agreement for that code forbids this? You've opened yourself to a lawsuit... -Randy Glenn Randy_Glenn-at-tvo.org - PICxpert-at-home.com PICxpert-at-yahoo.com - PICxpert-at-picxpert.com http://www.picxpert.com/ {Original Message removed}

'[EE] : IRDA'
2000\11\14@095407 by Null

How easy/hard is it to build an IrDA tranciever for the PC? I have a header for one on my mother board and would like to add it to communicate with a Palm Pilot. I have seen the unit for sale for 40-60 dollars US. This seems like a lot to me(I could be wrong). I am wondering: 1)I have seen IrDA trancievers for sale as raw units. Do I need to add anything in between it and the MB to make it work other than wires? If so than what needs to be added? 2) Does anyone have a good link to find out more about IrDA hardware? Ie schematics/specifications etc... The IrDA.org website was almost completely useles and be wildering(and slow). Thanks for the help. Feel free to respond off list if it is not relevant. Allen -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2000\11\15@164808 by Mark Willis

Take a look at http://daniel-hertrich.de/ir_dev/index.html, he has such a device on there - He gives full instructions. You may need to minorly adapt it if your connector is different (I think they're all the same though.) Also, see these links for $20 IRDA units on eBay: cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=495315919 cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=495317205 cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=495329527 cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=490557649 cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=498145487 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=498146088 search-desc.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ebaytag1=ebayreg&ht=1&query=%2Birda+%2Bdesktop&ebaytag1code=0&srchdesc=y&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&SortOrder=%5Ba%5D will give you MANY hits on eBay. Looks like $19.99 is a good price to pay. Mark Null wrote: {Quote hidden}> How easy/hard is it to build an IrDA tranciever for the PC? I have a > header for one on my mother board and would like to add it to > communicate with a Palm Pilot. I have seen the unit for sale for 40-60 > dollars US. This seems like a lot to me(I could be wrong). I am > wondering: > > 1)I have seen IrDA trancievers for sale as raw units. Do I need to add > anything in between it and the MB to make it work other than wires? If > so than what needs to be added? > > 2) Does anyone have a good link to find out more about IrDA hardware? > Ie schematics/specifications etc... The IrDA.org website was almost > completely useles and be wildering(and slow). > > Thanks for the help. Feel free to respond off list if it is not > relevant. > > Allen -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

'[PIC:] IRDA'
2001\04\13@165654 by Harold M Hallikainen

I might have an IRDA application and have never done anything with IRDA before. I'm wondering if something like Windoze Hyperterminal can be pointed to an IRDA port and then the PIC driving IRDA would just (with appropriate encoding) consider this to be a terminal. This'd allow a full screen user interface with no custom code on the Windoze machine. Can it be done? Thanks! Harold FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2001\04\13@200821 by Dan Michaels

Harold H. wrote: > I might have an IRDA application and have never done anything with IRDA >before. I'm wondering if something like Windoze Hyperterminal can be >pointed to an IRDA port and then the PIC driving IRDA would just (with >appropriate encoding) consider this to be a terminal. This'd allow a full >screen user interface with no custom code on the Windoze machine. Can it >be done? > Alice is an expert on IrDA talking to RS-232 - if she isn't off in the desert fighting scorpions, that is. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2001\04\14@091528 by Stephen B Webb

> I might have an IRDA application and have never done anything with IRDA Most likely the mode you are looking for is IRCOMM, which is basically RS-232 emulation for legacy applications. Since there is only one "wire" for the IR stuff, some behind the scenes negotiations have to take place. (Which are transparent to the windows application program). BUT, the PIC program will have to implement the IRDA stuff. There are IRDA controller chips that may take care of all of the handshaking stuff for you, in which case your PIC app would be allowed to be just as stupid as the windows app (ie it thinks it is talking to a RS232 port) Check out http://www.irda.org for all of the protocol specifications. IRCOMM is most likely the one you want. -Steve -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2001\04\14@095128 by Jason L DeVore

An easy option is to use the sx28 with the irda virtual peripheral. You can set up the code to allow transparent ir communications. I used a pic to talk rs232 to the sx28 and then to an IrDa computer port. This way the pic can do all the other stuff. On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Stephen B Webb wrote: {Quote hidden}> > I might have an IRDA application and have never done anything with > IRDA > > Most likely the mode you are looking for is IRCOMM, which is basically > RS-232 emulation for legacy applications. Since there is only one "wire" > for the IR stuff, some behind the scenes negotiations have to take place. > (Which are transparent to the windows application program). BUT, the PIC > program will have to implement the IRDA stuff. > > There are IRDA controller chips that may take care of all of the > handshaking stuff for you, in which case your PIC app would be allowed to > be just as stupid as the windows app (ie it thinks it is talking to a > RS232 port) > > Check out > http://www.irda.org > > for all of the protocol specifications. IRCOMM is most likely the one you > want. > > -Steve > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

'[PIC]: IrDA'
2001\12\02@231208 by Salah

Hi List, I am looking for PICC source code to implement the Transmit/Receive protocol using the IrDA ,also an evaluation circuit for the same source code .... Do I need to do all the IrDA protocols in order to be able to control the IrDA devices(LEDs) or there is simple Tx/Rx procedure to encode/decode the signals .....I don`t want to use the ready transceivers like MCP2150 ...thinking to use PIC16F84A to encode/decode the IrDA signals. Thanx in advance. Salah Mohammed Hugle-Electronics, Tokyo/Japan. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu

2001\12\03@133003 by Simon-Thijs=20de=20Feber?=

Hello, I am very interested in that piece of software as well ! Best regards, Simon --- Salah <RemoveMEsalahspamBeGoneHUGLE.CO.JP> wrote: > Hi List, {Quote hidden}> I am looking for PICC source code to implement > the Transmit/Receive > protocol using the IrDA ,also an evaluation circuit > for the same source code > .... Do I need to do all the IrDA protocols in order > to be able to control > the IrDA devices(LEDs) or there is simple Tx/Rx > procedure to encode/decode > the signals .....I don`t want to use the ready > transceivers like MCP2150 > ...thinking to use PIC16F84A to encode/decode the > IrDA signals. > > Thanx in advance. > > Salah Mohammed > Hugle-Electronics, > Tokyo/Japan. > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList > spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@spam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu > > > ________________________________________________________________ Nokia 5510 looks weird sounds great. Go to http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ discover and win it! The competition ends 16 th of December 2001. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2001\12\03@213448 by codefreeze 0

> > --- Salah <TakeThisOuTsalahspamHUGLE.CO.JP> wrote: > Hi List, > > I am looking for PICC source code to implement > > the Transmit/Receive > > protocol using the IrDA ,also an evaluation circuit > > for the same source code > > .... Do I need to do all the IrDA protocols in order > > to be able to control > > the IrDA devices(LEDs) or there is simple Tx/Rx > > procedure to encode/decode > > the signals Yes. But it is still simple to en/decode it once you know the protocol. .....I don`t want to use the ready > > transceivers like MCP2150 > > ...thinking to use PIC16F84A to encode/decode the > > IrDA signals. There should be no problem. Complete data sheets are found at irda.org FYI, I'm doing my project using MCP2150, so that I can squeeze in more code to do other stuff. {Quote hidden}> > > > Thanx in advance. > > > > Salah Mohammed > > Hugle-Electronics, > > Tokyo/Japan. > > > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList > > piclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu> > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

'[EE]: IRDA RS232 interface'
2001\12\19@010824 by Richard Sloan

Anyone try to stretch the pulse with caps/resistors to get more proper RS232 type timing our of IRDA transceivers? Any other cheap technique available so you can attach direct to TX/RX lines on micro? Richard. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

'[OT]: IRDA tranceivers'
2001\12\19@151715 by Richard Sloan

What would you suggest for a fairly industry standard / low cost 115.2kbps IRDA transceiver? Richard. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2001\12\19@154910 by Louis Davis

I have used the Infineon IRMS6100 with success. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Sloan [RemoveMErsloanEraseMEspam_OUTTHEMINDFACTORY.COM] Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 2:10 PM To: @spam@PICLISTRemoveMEEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: [OT]: IRDA tranceivers What would you suggest for a fairly industry standard / low cost 115.2kbps IRDA transceiver? Richard. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

'[OT]: IRDA modules'
2002\04\12@162045 by Richard Sloan

What is a popular well stocked IRDA module?? Having hard time find one to use in a project. Only need up to 19200 rate. Richard. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2002\04\12@173019 by Gregory D Wagner

The MAX3100 is one. The data sheet contains an example using the PIC16C54. Also, see <http://www.emesystems.com/BS2IrDA.htm> for a discussion on interfacing to a Stamp microcontroller. -- Greg Richard Sloan wrote: >What is a popular well stocked IRDA module?? > >Having hard time find one to use in a project. > >Only need up to 19200 rate. > >Richard. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2002\04\13@011329 by Timothy J. Massey

Hello! I hope this helps: it's a link to a guy who built a remote control receiver that uses a PIC 16C84 and communicates to the PC via IRDA. The IRDA communication is done directly by the PIC... http://www.cadsoft.de/people/kls/vdr/remote.htm Tim Massey Richard Sloan <rsloan@THEMINDFA To: EraseMEPICLIST@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU CTORY.COM> cc: Sent by: pic Subject: [OT]: IRDA modules microcontroller discussion list <PICLIST@MITVMA.M IT.EDU> 04/12/02 04:23 PM Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list What is a popular well stocked IRDA module?? Having hard time find one to use in a project. Only need up to 19200 rate. Richard. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

'[PIC]: IrDA'
2002\05\29@083433 by Nick Hardy

Does anyone have code / knowledge of how to implement the full IrDA protocols / stacks on a PIC? Thanks! -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

'[EE]: MCP2150 IRDA Controller'
2002\07\08@063552 by Richard Stevens

Hi, I'm interested to know whether anyone has had any success using Microchip's MCP2150 IRDA Controller. I am trying, using as a starting point a circuit based on the one in their "MCP2120/MCP2150 DEVELOPER'S KIT USER'S GUIDE." So far limited success. One or two seconds of connection folllowed by a cooked chip..... 'I believe' all my voltage and current parameters are within those specified on the (incomplete) data sheet for the product. Has anyone had any more luck than me?? Regards, Richard. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

'[ot]: IRDA Transceiver'
2003\02\04@114654 by Anand Dhuru

Does anyone on the list have data sheets (at least a pin out diagram) or app. notes for the HP / Agilent HSDL 1000 Irda module? Tried Google without much success, and doesnt seem to exist on the Agilent site either :(. Any help would be highly appreciated. Regards, Anand Dhuru -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email @spam@listservspam_OUT.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2003\02\04@142020 by Andrew Warren

Anand Dhuru <spamBeGonePICLISTEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu> wrote: > Does anyone on the list have data sheets (at least a pin out diagram) > or app. notes for the HP / Agilent HSDL 1000 Irda module? > > Tried Google without much success, and doesnt seem to exist on the > Agilent site either :(. Twenty seconds spent on an Altavista search at http://www.altavista.com/web/adv for the boolean expression "hsdl 1000" and irda yielded this datasheet for the HSDL 1001, a drop-in replacement for the HSDL 1000: http://ch.telemost.ru/cellular/hsdl1001.pdf -Andy === Andrew Warren -- aiwspamBeGonecypress.com === Principal Design Engineer === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation === === Opinions expressed above do not === necessarily represent those of === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistserv@spam@spamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

'[EE]: IRDa operation'
2003\02\05@225812 by Anand Dhuru

Hi folks, Please excuse the OT nature of this post; but, I have been struggling with this for some time, and as most times in the past, it is very tempting to seek advice from this great pool of talent. I am trying to connect a home brew IRDA adapter based on the HP HSDL 1000 modules I located at a surplus store. I have XP running on my PC, and the IRDA adapter just doesnt work. I have changed the BIOS UART mode for COM2 to SIR, of course, and the XP control panel does report an IRDA adapter being preasent. However, when I bring my Nokia 8210 in close proximity, it does not communicate; I'm sure the Nokia's IRDA works fine, I checked it with a notebook. Now, my question is, if Windows is configured correctly, should the TXD on the motherboard not pulse periodically, regardless of whether it is receiving a valid IRDa transmission? Or does it commence to do so only when it detects the presence of an IRDa device? In which case, how would the communication be initiated if both the devices are just 'listening' to begin with? Thanks and regards, Anand Dhuru -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@EraseMEmitvma.mit.edu>

'Hooking up an HSDL-1001 IrDA transceiver to a bre'
2003\03\14@080806 by Rick Regan

I have an Agilent HSDL-1001 IrDA transceiver which I would like to hook up to a (solderless) breadboard for testing. The problem is that the pin spacing on the HSDL-1001 is much closer than on a standard DIP. I am not sure what you call this type of packaging, but it has 8 closely spaced pins all on one side (by the way, 1 pin is NC, so I'd only need to connect 7 of the pins). Can anyone suggest a good way to hook this up to a breadboard? Is there an adapter I could buy? Preferably, I'd like to make something - it could be quick and dirty just for testing. I presume I'd have to mount it on something and solder some wires to it, but any way I've envisioned doing it seems like a tricky job. FYI, the HSDL-1001 transceiver datasheet can be found at: http://literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5988-7285EN.pdf Thanks! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\03\14@081227 by Rick Regan

SORRY, FORGOT THE TAG THE FIRST TIME! I have an Agilent HSDL-1001 IrDA transceiver which I would like to hook up to a (solderless) breadboard for testing. The problem is that the pin spacing on the HSDL-1001 is much closer than on a standard DIP. I am not sure what you call this type of packaging, but it has 8 closely spaced pins all on one side (by the way, 1 pin is NC, so I'd only need to connect 7 of the pins). Can anyone suggest a good way to hook this up to a breadboard? Is there an adapter I could buy? Preferably, I'd like to make something - it could be quick and dirty just for testing. I presume I'd have to mount it on something and solder some wires to it, but any way I've envisioned doing it seems like a tricky job. FYI, the HSDL-1001 transceiver datasheet can be found at: http://literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5988-7285EN.pdf Thanks! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\03\14@082217 by Alan B. Pearce

>Can anyone suggest a good way to hook this up to a >breadboard? Is there an adapter I could buy? It sounds like you have a surface mount version of the device, so look for the mounting whatsits that convert surface mount to DIP, probably the SO-14 or SO-16 size should do. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\03\14@083308 by Hazelwood Lyle

Digi-Key and Alltronics carry the "surfboard" line of adapters. These are made by Capital Advanced Technologies. http://www.capitaladvanced.com A bit pricey, but fine for one-offs. These are available with or without SIP pins for breadboarding. Lyle {Original Message removed}

'[PIC]: IRDA'
2003\05\27@133134 by Alex Kilpatrick

I was wondering if anyone had experience working with a PIC and IrDA? I have seen some source code on the Web, and while it looks a bit more complex than regular serial, it doesn't look too bad. Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module? The Zilog ones seem ok to me. Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with an IrDA module? And any pitfalls to avoid? Thanks! Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\27@135149 by David VanHorn

A >Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module? The Zilog ones seem ok >to me. Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with >an IrDA module? And any pitfalls to avoid? I'm using those in a project now. They're fine, easy to use, but watch bypassing and PCB routing. High pulsed currents, and sensitive analog together in one package. If you follow the Zilog guidelines, you'll be fine. Talking IRDA protocol is another matter. I used the Actisys chipset to encapsulate all that "fun", and present it to me as a TTL serial interface. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\27@140901 by Robert Reimiller

On Tue, 27 May 2003 12:16:05 -0500, you wrote: >I was wondering if anyone had experience working with a PIC and IrDA? I >have seen some source code on the Web, and while it looks a bit more >complex than regular serial, it doesn't look too bad. > >Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module? The Zilog ones seem ok >to me. Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with >an IrDA module? And any pitfalls to avoid? > I have a prototype of a system using a PIC18F452 that uses a HP IrDA module. The serial port on the PIC is already being used by a different serial interface (RS232) so the IrDA is being bit banged at 9600 baud. The PIC is running a 3.68mhz crystal, so obviously much higher rates would be possible running faster. I do not use the IrDA stack, the IrDA module is simply carrying SLIP frame packets (http://www.certsoft.com/cnp11.pdf) with some 0xFF bytes at the front of each packet for syncronization. Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\27@142446 by Alex Kilpatrick

> > > I have a prototype of a system using a PIC18F452 that uses a > HP IrDA module. The serial port on the PIC is already being > used by a different serial interface (RS232) so the IrDA is > being bit banged at 9600 baud. The PIC is running a 3.68mhz > crystal, so obviously much higher rates would be possible > running faster. > > I do not use the IrDA stack, the IrDA module is simply > carrying SLIP frame packets > (http://www.certsoft.com/cnp11.pdf) with some > 0xFF bytes at > the front of each packet for syncronization. > Thanks! That is mainly what I wanted to know -- do you have to use the protocol stack for an IrDA device that doesn't need to talk to a formal IrDA device. I am planning to use it to talk to another PIC with an IrDA transceiver, so I can use my own protcol. Will it work with just straight RS-232, or is there some tweaking that you have to do? Thanks Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\27@154540 by Brent Brown

> I was wondering if anyone had experience working with a PIC and IrDA? > I have seen some source code on the Web, and while it looks a bit more > complex than regular serial, it doesn't look too bad. > > Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module? The Zilog ones seem ok > to me. Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with > an IrDA module? And any pitfalls to avoid? Have used the Microchip MCP2150 IrDA controller with the low power Temic TFDU4201 module and PIC16F877. My part was just the hardware design only, no software. We were a bit dissapointed with the overall data throughput, but we were never sure if the bottlneck was the MCP2150 or the overhead of IrDA. Having said that, the setup was pretty easy to use as the MCP2150 takes care of the IrDA connection and protocol. -- Brent Brown, Electronic Design Solutions 16 English Street, Hamilton, New Zealand Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069 Mobile/txt: 025 334 069 eMail: .....brent.brownRemoveMEclear.net.nz -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\27@162242 by Talmage Wesley

What kind of throughtput were you expecting? 9600, 19200, etc? Thanks Talmage Wesley -----Original Message----- From: Brent Brown [.....brent.brownSTOPspam@spam@CLEAR.NET.NZ] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 2:44 PM To: PICLISTEraseME@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [PIC]: IRDA > I was wondering if anyone had experience working with a PIC and IrDA? > I have seen some source code on the Web, and while it looks a bit more > complex than regular serial, it doesn't look too bad. > > Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module? The Zilog ones seem ok > to me. Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with > an IrDA module? And any pitfalls to avoid? Have used the Microchip MCP2150 IrDA controller with the low power Temic TFDU4201 module and PIC16F877. My part was just the hardware design only, no software. We were a bit dissapointed with the overall data throughput, but we were never sure if the bottlneck was the MCP2150 or the overhead of IrDA. Having said that, the setup was pretty easy to use as the MCP2150 takes care of the IrDA connection and protocol. -- Brent Brown, Electronic Design Solutions 16 English Street, Hamilton, New Zealand Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069 Mobile/txt: 025 334 069 eMail: RemoveMEbrent.brownspamBeGoneclear.net.nz -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\27@163848 by Robert Reimiller

On Tue, 27 May 2003 13:23:11 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks! That is mainly what I wanted to know -- do you have to use the >protocol stack for an IrDA device that doesn't need to talk to a formal >IrDA device. I am planning to use it to talk to another PIC with an >IrDA transceiver, so I can use my own protcol. > Right, if you don't need interopability with other IrDA devices at the protocol level you can use your own protocol. >Will it work with just straight RS-232, or is there some tweaking that >you have to do? > Regular RS232 uses different levels than infrared. In RS232 the line idles (mark condition) at 5V (from the UART's end of things) and the space condition is 0V and lasts for the entire bit period. For the HP transceiver (and others I have looked at), the transmit idles at 0V and you just need a 5V pulse of about 1.6us for each space bit. I forget if the receiver idles at 5V or 0V, but in either case you will just get a pulse, not a signal for the entire bit period. Thats why I decided to use the Uart for RS232 and bit-bang the IRDA. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\27@164053 by Talmage Wesley

What kind of throughput were you expecting? 9600, 19200, etc? -----Original Message----- From: Talmage Wesley [spamBeGonetwesleyKILLspam@spam@TELEMOTIVE.COM] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 3:23 PM To: PICLISTspam_OUT@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [PIC]: IRDA What kind of throughtput were you expecting? 9600, 19200, etc? Thanks Talmage Wesley -----Original Message----- From: Brent Brown [spamBeGonebrent.brown@spam@CLEAR.NET.NZ] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 2:44 PM To: RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [PIC]: IRDA > I was wondering if anyone had experience working with a PIC and IrDA? > I have seen some source code on the Web, and while it looks a bit more > complex than regular serial, it doesn't look too bad. > > Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module? The Zilog ones seem ok > to me. Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with > an IrDA module? And any pitfalls to avoid? Have used the Microchip MCP2150 IrDA controller with the low power Temic TFDU4201 module and PIC16F877. My part was just the hardware design only, no software. We were a bit dissapointed with the overall data throughput, but we were never sure if the bottlneck was the MCP2150 or the overhead of IrDA. Having said that, the setup was pretty easy to use as the MCP2150 takes care of the IrDA connection and protocol. -- Brent Brown, Electronic Design Solutions 16 English Street, Hamilton, New Zealand Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069 Mobile/txt: 025 334 069 eMail: spamBeGonebrent.brownspam_OUTRemoveMEclear.net.nz -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\27@172119 by Rick Regan

{Quote hidden}> >Will it work with just straight RS-232, or is there > some tweaking that > >you have to do? > > > Regular RS232 uses different levels than infrared. > In RS232 the line > idles (mark condition) at 5V (from the UART's end of > things) and the > space condition is 0V and lasts for the entire bit > period. > > For the HP transceiver (and others I have looked > at), the transmit > idles at 0V and you just need a 5V pulse of about > 1.6us for each > space bit. I forget if the receiver idles at 5V or > 0V, but in either > case you will just get a pulse, not a signal for the > entire bit period. > Thats why I decided to use the Uart for RS232 and > bit-bang the IRDA. Another option is to interface the UART to an MCP2120. It converts UART data to IrDA data (and vice versa). In other words, it takes care of just the IrDA physical layer and not the full-blown IrDA stack. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\27@184425 by James Caska

>Another option is to interface the UART to an MCP2120. Does the MCP2120 handle the IRDA bidirectionally.. I can you send and receive over the UART over the IRDA simulataneously... For instance what I want to do is to send SLIP packets over the IRDA via MCP2120 directly to the Serial port of the PC and use the direct connection to create an internet link. Works now for the physical wire.. Would it just be as simple as plugging in a MCP2120 coupling. While I am at it, does anyone know how to create a SLIP direct link connection like in win2k/XP on a WinCE device? So you could point say an IPAQ irda port at a IRDA/MCP2120/UART and fire SLIP packets into the winCE Browser. I have wanted to demo the muvium servlet webserver interacting with a webbrowser on an irda/SLIP/WinCE/IPAQ for ages! Any thoughts? James Caska http://www.muvium.com uVM - 'Java Bred for Embedded' {Original Message removed}

2003\05\27@195424 by Rick Regan

--- James Caska <.....caskaRemoveMEVIRTUALBREADBOARD.COM> wrote: > >Another option is to interface the UART to an > MCP2120. > > Does the MCP2120 handle the IRDA bidirectionally.. I > can you send and > receive over the UART over the IRDA > simulataneously... > According to the datasheet it looks like it's only half duplex. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\27@195639 by David VanHorn

> >According to the datasheet it looks like it's only >half duplex. IRDA is half duplex. Very hard to isolate the IR talk path from the IR listen path. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\27@200509 by Robert Reimiller

On Tue, 27 May 2003 23:43:35 +0100, you wrote: >Does the MCP2120 handle the IRDA bidirectionally.. I can you send and >receive over the UART over the IRDA simulataneously... > You aren't going to be able to do bidirectional with any kind of normal IRDA that I'm aware of. The high intensity transmit light pulses will swap the receiver. >For instance what I want to do is to send SLIP packets over the IRDA via >MCP2120 directly to the Serial port of the PC and use the direct >connection to create an internet link. Works now for the physical wire.. >Would it just be as simple as plugging in a MCP2120 coupling. > Nope, you still need to add some synchronizing bytes (oxff) before the start of each SLIP frame, typically on the order of 5-10ms of them depending on the transceiver. >While I am at it, does anyone know how to create a SLIP direct link >connection like in win2k/XP on a WinCE device? So you could point say an >IPAQ irda port at a IRDA/MCP2120/UART and fire SLIP packets into the >winCE Browser. > Microsoft doesn't know how to implement standards. If you try to use their "modem" drivers and select slip you can just start receiving data like a normal Linux or Unix system. Their stupid driver sends out some sort of string and expects something specific in the return, just saw this someone, but forgot what it was. Of course, even if you get past that, their slip isn't going to insert the synchronizing bytes. For the windows based applications that I've written I've just opened a serial port in binary mode and done my own SLIP framing and deframing. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\28@065154 by Brent Brown

Talmage Wesley wrote: > What kind of throughtput were you expecting? 9600, 19200, etc? Sorry, I don't recall the exact figures, but with a claimed 115200 baud IrDA link I think it was something less than what we could otherwise get with a 9600 baud cable link. Figures from the data sheet for the MCP2150 taking overheads and turnaround times into account show typical throughput 62.7% with packets of 64 bytes size, down to 2.6% for single byte packets (all at 115200 baud). The data sheet explains fairly well what factors affect throughput, guess we were just trying to use it with suitably inefficient packet sizes. -- Brent Brown, Electronic Design Solutions 16 English Street, Hamilton, New Zealand Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069 Mobile/txt: 025 334 069 eMail: brent.brown@spam@clear.net.nz -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

'[EE]: IrDA and groundplanes'
2003\06\17@185609 by Alex Kilpatrick

I have a simple "surboard" type gadget to mount an SMT IrDA module. It works fine, and when I send a 2 uS pulse, I get a 2 uS pulse on the receiver. However, I am also getting lots of glitches (false signals) on the receiver. With my logic analyzer, it looks like about 30 a second or so. Capacitors don't seem to help. I read in the specs that I need a groundplane, which I really don;t know much about. To experiment, I soldered a big chunk 'o copper (about 1/2 square) to the ground pin. That didn't seem to help. I tried propping a big piece of copper *behind* the board. That seems to completely reject the noise, and I only get my proper signals. Can someone tell me basically what is going on here? I though groundplanes were just needed for RF antennas. Also, can someone tell me the proper way to lay this out on a circuit board? Would it be just a big pad around the ground pin, and then copper on the reverse side? Thanks! Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\06\17@191033 by David VanHorn

> >Can someone tell me basically what is going on here? I though >groundplanes were just needed for RF antennas. Also, can someone tell >me the proper way to lay this out on a circuit board? Would it be just >a big pad around the ground pin, and then copper on the reverse side? Zilog's app notes are pretty good on this. The purpose of the plane is to provide low impedance return paths for the currents. You're switching relatively large currents fast, and that's always a recipe for trouble. You also need the decoupling caps, and yes you do need that many, and as shown. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\06\17@192908 by Alex Kilpatrick

> > Zilog's app notes are pretty good on this. > The purpose of the plane is to provide low impedance return > paths for the currents. You're switching relatively large > currents fast, and that's always a recipe for trouble. > OK, but why do you need copper underneath the board? That shouldn't have anything to do with current flow. > You also need the decoupling caps, and yes you do need that > many, and as shown. > Maybe you have different app notes than I have. The one I have just shows one .33 uF cap. Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\06\17@194155 by David VanHorn

At 06:28 PM 6/17/2003 -0500, Alex Kilpatrick wrote: >> >> Zilog's app notes are pretty good on this. >> The purpose of the plane is to provide low impedance return >> paths for the currents. You're switching relatively large >> currents fast, and that's always a recipe for trouble. >> > >OK, but why do you need copper underneath the board? That shouldn't >have anything to do with current flow. EMI shield, thermal dissipation. Lots of things going on here. My existing PCB has three IRDA transcievers, and no problems on the first cut. >> You also need the decoupling caps, and yes you do need that >> many, and as shown. >> > >Maybe you have different app notes than I have. The one I have just >shows one .33 uF cap. Zilog AN009101-0501 They didn't say as much as I thought I remembered.. It's been about 6 months since I designed this bit.. I have a 0.1uF at LEDA, two 9.1 ohm 0603 R's in parallel, then another 0.1uF local. The VCC supply is locally decoupled with 0.1uF, and each feeds from a 220uF, with 10 ohms between the IRDA vcc lines and system VCC. Those run on separate tracks to the board's VCC entry point. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\06\17@200225 by Alex Kilpatrick

> >> > > > >Maybe you have different app notes than I have. The one I have just > >shows one .33 uF cap. > > Zilog AN009101-0501 > They didn't say as much as I thought I remembered.. It's been > about 6 months since I designed this bit.. > > I have a 0.1uF at LEDA, two 9.1 ohm 0603 R's in parallel, > then another 0.1uF local. The VCC supply is locally decoupled > with 0.1uF, and each feeds from a 220uF, with 10 ohms between > the IRDA vcc lines and system VCC. Those run on separate > tracks to the board's VCC entry point. > I'm using the ZHX1820. It doesn't show any of that stuff on the design notes. http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Zilog/Web%20Data/ZHX1820.pdf Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

'[PIC]: IrDA bit protocol issue'
2003\07\02@120553 by Alex Kilpatrick

I am using an IrDA module as a small, low power IR transceiver. I'm not doing any of the IrDA protocol stuff. With an IrDA module, all pulses are ~ 1.6 us long, not matter what the data rate. I have something that works fine, but I am having problems with noise rejection. Here is the issue: A start bit is a pulse A zero is a pulse A one is no pulse So, in pulses, 0xFF looks like this: | _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (start bit pulse, eight periods of no pulse, followed by a stop bit, which is also no pulse) Doing regular RS-232 over IR, I could reject noise by measuring the length of the pulse. However, with a 4 Mhz PIC, all I can do is capture a pulse. So, I can't tell the difference between 0xFF and just a noise pulse. I am communicating at 9600, so my pulses are 104 uS apart. I was thinking about changing the idea of a stop bit to be three sequential pulses within that period. It seems like that would help with most (if not all) of the spurious noise. Anyone have any experience in this area, or suggestions? Thanks! Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\07\02@131452 by Alex Kilpatrick

> -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Kilpatrick > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:05 AM > To: EraseMEPICLISTRemoveMESTOPspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: [PIC]: IrDA bit protocol issue > > > communicating at 9600, so my pulses are 104 uS apart. I was > thinking about changing the idea of a stop bit to be three > sequential pulses within that period. It seems like that > would help with most (if not all) of the spurious noise. > It turns out that making a stop bit an actual pulse instead of a lack of a pulse seems to fix the noise issue. It isn't kosher RS-232, but that is ok by me. Making the stop bit a pulse seems to provide a clear bit boundary, which helps with these small pulses. One thing I noticed with the IrDA modules is that simply placing my finger about 1/2" away (not touching anything) from the face induces a lot of noise on the receiver. My breadboard design is not to spec, so this may be part of the problem. Hopefully, a proper PCB layout will help fix the problem. Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\07\02@140554 by Talmage Wesley

IrDA modules typically need about 4.7uF at 3mm from the Vcc. This may help! Talmage Wesley Telemotive Industrial Controls {Original Message removed}

2003\07\02@141218 by Talmage Wesley

Actually 0.33uF would work! -----Original Message----- From: Talmage Wesley [RemoveMEtwesleyKILLspamTakeThisOuTTELEMOTIVE.COM] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 1:09 PM To: spamBeGonePICLIST@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [PIC]: IrDA bit protocol issue IrDA modules typically need about 4.7uF at 3mm from the Vcc. This may help! Talmage Wesley Telemotive Industrial Controls -----Original Message----- From: Alex Kilpatrick [RemoveMEAlexKspam_OUTHCITRAINING.COM] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:13 PM To: PICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [PIC]: IrDA bit protocol issue {Quote hidden}> -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Kilpatrick > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:05 AM > To: spam_OUTPICLISTspam_OUTspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: [PIC]: IrDA bit protocol issue > > > communicating at 9600, so my pulses are 104 uS apart. I was > thinking about changing the idea of a stop bit to be three > sequential pulses within that period. It seems like that > would help with most (if not all) of the spurious noise. > It turns out that making a stop bit an actual pulse instead of a lack of a pulse seems to fix the noise issue. It isn't kosher RS-232, but that is ok by me. Making the stop bit a pulse seems to provide a clear bit boundary, which helps with these small pulses. One thing I noticed with the IrDA modules is that simply placing my finger about 1/2" away (not touching anything) from the face induces a lot of noise on the receiver. My breadboard design is not to spec, so this may be part of the problem. Hopefully, a proper PCB layout will help fix the problem. Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\07\02@150920 by Alex Kilpatrick

Right. I have that, but on my hacked up breadboard module, it may not be ideal. In any case, it doesn't actually solve the problem. *Any* glitch will be interpreted as a start bit, since I am only looking for a 1.6 uS pulse. And any start bit followed by nothing will be a 0xFF. A capacitor might help remove glitches, but it won't eliminate them. Alex > {Original Message removed}

2003\07\02@152042 by Tim ODriscoll

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Alex Kilpatrick wrote: > It turns out that making a stop bit an actual pulse instead of a lack of > a pulse seems to fix the noise issue. It isn't kosher RS-232, but that > is ok by me. Making the stop bit a pulse seems to provide a clear bit > boundary, which helps with these small pulses. > Have you tried Manchester encoding the bytes? I also find that some IR receivers need a pulse a few milli-seconds long to start-up/tune-into the bit train. > One thing I noticed with the IrDA modules is that simply placing my > finger about 1/2" away (not touching anything) from the face induces a > lot of noise on the receiver. My breadboard design is not to spec, so > It could be the heat from your finger radiating in the form of infra red. HTH, Tim -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\07\02@164541 by Alex Kilpatrick

> > > Have you tried Manchester encoding the bytes? I also find > that some IR receivers need a pulse a few milli-seconds long > to start-up/tune-into the bit train. > > This is an IrDA module. It only outputs a pulse 1.6 uS long, no matter what you feed it. I don't think manchester encoding would work, since I can't do a rising or falling edge with them, just a pulse. I guess I could potentially do something like one pulse is a zero, and two pulses is a one. That might help with synchronization and noise. > It could be the heat from your finger radiating in the form of infra red. I hadn't thought of that. I suspect you are right. Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

'[AVR]: IrDA message selection from a menu'
2003\09\04@125821 by Doug Hewett

Eventually the primary will be a Palm and the secondary an ATmega128. 9600 baud. During development the primary will be a PC. I would like a PC application where the user can select a message (e.g. XID) from a menu and send it. (I think this step-wise approach may be simpler than the 'big bang'.) Using Codewright in hex I simulated an XID message: unsigned char cFF3F[ ] = { 0xFF, 0xC0, // typical XBOF, BOF 0xFF, 0x3F, 0x01, 0x00, // 00 - 03 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xFF, // 04 - 07 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0x00, // 08 - 11 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, // 12 - 15 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, // 16 - 19 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, // 20 - 23 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, // 24 - 27 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, // 28 - 31 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, // 32 - 35 0x7E, 0xF8, // 36 - 37 XCRC 0xC1, 0xFF // typical EOF, XBOF }; Then, running Hyperterminal, I sent this as a text (i.e. not XMODEM, etc.) file. The application's state machine detects XBOFs, the BOF, the CRC, etc., and moves the data into the stack's buffer. The next step is to replace the null modem cable with IR transceivers. (The PC's transceiver is a dongle.) However I need an application that allows me to select a message (e.g. XID) from a menu and send it. How can I do this? Thanks, Doug Hewett, CSDP -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

'Infrared / IrDA Communications'
2003\09\09@090548 by 8859-9?B?1m1lciBZYWxo/Q==?=

I have a project which uses mcp2120 and vishay TFDU4100 IR Transceiver. The project is completed and everything is working wonderfully. I am able to communicate with the PC (through the Microchip MCP2120 development board) send and receive data very fast (9600 baud) Now I am porting the PC code to PSION workabout handheld and having some problems. Psion sends the information via IrDA port, and the my pcb is able to read this correctly and send a response (35 bytes @9600 baud). However, PSION is not able to read the coming data correctly. Especially the 0x00 and 0xFF bytes. I have read all the IR related subjects on the PICList since 7/23/2002, still, I have couple of questions, if anyone has experience with the IR communication: 1. I have read on the list that 0xFF is used for syncronization, does that mean I cannot send 0xFF byte? 2. What is the ideal pocket size? Should I send 8 bytes, wait, send 8 bytes, etc.? 3. When the PC sending the exact same data my pcb is sending to the PSION, PSION is able to read ALL the data from the PC (with MCP2120 dev board connected) including 0xFFs and 0x00s. Also, the pcb is able to send and receive all the data to and from the PC. However, the pcb and the PSION have problems. PSION sends 6 bytes, the pcb receives, pcb sends 35 bytes, but PSION does not receive them correctly. Sorry for the lengthy message, Any help is greatly appriciated, Omer YALHI oyalhispam_OUTteksan.com.tr http://www.teksan.com.tr -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\09\09@102752 by Vmer Yalh}

-> added the tag <- I have a project which uses mcp2120 and vishay TFDU4100 IR Transceiver. The project is completed and everything is working wonderfully. I am able to communicate with the PC (through the Microchip MCP2120 development board) send and receive data very fast (9600 baud) Now I am porting the PC code to PSION workabout handheld and having some problems. Psion sends the information via IrDA port, and the my pcb is able to read this correctly and send a response (35 bytes @9600 baud). However, PSION is not able to read the coming data correctly. Especially the 0x00 and 0xFF bytes. I have read all the IR related subjects on the PICList since 7/23/2002, still, I have couple of questions, if anyone has experience with the IR communication: 1. I have read on the list that 0xFF is used for syncronization, does that mean I cannot send 0xFF byte? 2. What is the ideal pocket size? Should I send 8 bytes, wait, send 8 bytes, etc.? 3. When the PC sending the exact same data my pcb is sending to the PSION, PSION is able to read ALL the data from the PC (with MCP2120 dev board connected) including 0xFFs and 0x00s. Also, the pcb is able to send and receive all the data to and from the PC. However, the pcb and the PSION have problems. PSION sends 6 bytes, the pcb receives, pcb sends 35 bytes, but PSION does not receive them correctly. Sorry for the lengthy message, Any help is greatly appriciated, Omer YALHI RemoveMEoyalhiKILLspam@spam@teksan.com.tr http://www.teksan.com.tr -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\09\09@103827 by David VanHorn

At 05:28 PM 9/9/2003 +0300, Vmer Yalh} wrote: >-> added the tag <- > >I have a project which uses mcp2120 and vishay TFDU4100 IR Transceiver. >The project is completed and everything is working wonderfully. I am >able to communicate with the PC (through the Microchip MCP2120 >development board) send and receive data very fast (9600 baud) > >Now I am porting the PC code to PSION workabout handheld and having some >problems. Psion sends the information via IrDA port, and the my pcb is >able to read this correctly and send a response (35 bytes @9600 baud). >However, PSION is not able to read the coming data correctly. >Especially the 0x00 and 0xFF bytes. I have read all the IR related >subjects on the PICList since 7/23/2002, still, I have couple of >questions, if anyone has experience with the IR communication: > >1. I have read on the list that 0xFF is used for syncronization, does >that mean I cannot send 0xFF byte? not sure on that one, but i can find out. >2. What is the ideal pocket size? Should I send 8 bytes, wait, send 8 >bytes, etc.? the limit is 2kbytes. larger packets are usually better. >3. When the PC sending the exact same data my pcb is sending to the >PSION, PSION is able to read ALL the data from the PC (with MCP2120 dev >board connected) including 0xFFs and 0x00s. Also, the pcb is able to >send and receive all the data to and from the PC. However, the pcb and >the PSION have problems. PSION sends 6 bytes, the pcb receives, pcb >sends 35 bytes, but PSION does not receive them correctly. is your pulse width too wide irda uses a 1/3 width pulse for '1'. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\09\09@111331 by =?us-ascii?Q?Omer_Yalhi?=

>is your pulse width too wide > >irda uses a 1/3 width pulse for '1'. Well, in contrast to that, I have added 10ms delay after each character, and now the PSION is succesfully receiving the first 33 bytes of the 35 bytes sent. I tried to send 37 bytes, it received 33 bytes. I sent 33 bytes, it received 31 bytes! PSION seems to be playing a practical joke to me, I hope I am not on a hidden camera!!! -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

'[EE]: Porting IrDA stack to microprocessor.'
2003\09\11@173913 by Doug Hewett

Has anyone ported the IrDA stack to a microprocessor? Thanks, Doug Hewett, CSDP -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\09\11@183917 by David VanHorn

At 02:37 PM 9/11/2003 -0700, Doug Hewett wrote: >Has anyone ported the IrDA stack to a microprocessor? http://www.actisys.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\09\12@103506 by Mike Hord

Look at Microchip's MCP2150/MCP2155. These 18-pin chips use an 11.0592 MHz crystal to run a mini-"processor" which handles the IrDA stack. Just present the data and wait for a response. Mike H. {Quote hidden}>From: Doug Hewett <DHewettspamBeGone.....STARTRAC.COM> >Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list <KILLspamPICLIST.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU> >To: spam_OUTPICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: [EE]: Porting IrDA stack to microprocessor. >Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:37:03 -0700 > >Has anyone ported the IrDA stack to a microprocessor? > >Thanks, >Doug Hewett, CSDP > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different >ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. _________________________________________________________________ Try MSN Messenger 6.0 with integrated webcam functionality! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_webcam -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservRemoveMEEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

'[EE]: IrDA, monitoring test equipment, recommendat'
2003\09\15@165157 by Doug Hewett

Any recommendations or suggestions for monitoring the communication between a primary and a secondary at 9600? Thanks, Doug Hewett, CSDP -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

'[EE]: MB IrDA header, again'
2003\10\23@142537 by Mike Hord

I have an IrDA header on my motherboard (an ABIT KT7-RAID). It seems to be mainly just a serial port which runs at 5v, and has no control lines, just RX and TX (and +5V and GND, of course!). In the BIOS, it has three settings: Disabled, HPSIR, and ASKIR. Disabled is pretty obvious, but what are the other two? I've found a number of places saying to use HPSIR, as ASKIR will break your transceiver module, but that still doesn't give me much useful info. I'm guessing ASKIR means amplitude shift keying, which means that the output of the TX line will be some frequency of pulses modulated by my digital data. Great for IR transmission, not so great if I want to talk to a PIC. So what, then, is HPSIR? Plain ol' serial? Note that I have been unable to find any reference to any of these things on the IRDA.org website. They seem to be less than willing to produce data about the IrPHY layer. Mike H. _________________________________________________________________ See when your friends are online with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu

'[PIC] implementing IrDA standard on PIC18 '
2005\01\06@213643 by p.cousens

----- Message from Woodward.Jimspameim-co.com on Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:43:47 -0600 ----- To: RemoveMEpiclistspamBeGoneRemoveMEmit.edu Subject: [PIC] implementing IrDA standard on PIC18 Has anyone on this list implemented an IrDA stack in firmware on the PIC18? Does anyone know of any good 3rd party ANSI C library code for implementing an IrDA stack (preferably with a reasonable fixed licensing fee and no royalty payment structure)? Any good advice or comments about designing this into a product that needs to be able to interface with PDA's and Laptops on an IrDA standard link (including self-discovery that there is an IrDA device nearby). I should also mention that the hardware design is already complete and in the field and uses a Texas Instruments TIR1000IPWR IR transceiver chip (pin and function compatible to the Microchip MCP2122 transceiver) and right now there is a key-chain FOB device that does IR remote control through the IR link. Therefore I do not think hardware solutions that implement the IrDA stack in hardware, like the Microchip MCP2155 will work because the remote control signals will not properly do the frame start signal correctly and I imagine the 2155 will ignore that signal and not pass it onto the microcontroller (though I am considering getting an MCP2155 developers kit to test what happens with the remote control signal on this part). Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!! Best Regards, Jim Woodward Control Systems Engineer EIM Controls Inc. 13840 Pike Rd. Missouri City, TX 77489 Email: KILLspamwoodward.jimspamBeGoneeim-co.com Phone: 281-261-3872

2005\01\10@011651 by onio (Nino) Benci

part 1 2026 bytes content-type:text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii (decoded 7bit) The kit is a good start, and reasonably cheap. Used it to develop an app for the PALM platform. All source code is provided and it is very useful. p.cousens wrote: {Quote hidden}>----- Message from @spam@Woodward.JimSTOPspam@spam@eim-co.com on Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:43:47 >-0600 ----- > > > To: piclistspamBeGonespamBeGonemit.edu > > > > Subject: [PIC] implementing IrDA standard on PIC18 > > > > > >Has anyone on this list implemented an IrDA stack in firmware on the >PIC18? >Does anyone know of any good 3rd party ANSI C library code for >implementing >an IrDA stack (preferably with a reasonable fixed licensing fee and no >royalty payment structure)? Any good advice or comments about designing >this into a product that needs to be able to interface with PDA's and >Laptops on an IrDA standard link (including self-discovery that there is >an >IrDA device nearby). I should also mention that the hardware design is >already complete and in the field and uses a Texas Instruments >TIR1000IPWR >IR transceiver chip (pin and function compatible to the Microchip >MCP2122 >transceiver) and right now there is a key-chain FOB device that does IR >remote control through the IR link. Therefore I do not think hardware >solutions that implement the IrDA stack in hardware, like the Microchip >MCP2155 will work because the remote control signals will not properly >do >the frame start signal correctly and I imagine the 2155 will ignore that >signal and not pass it onto the microcontroller (though I am considering >getting an MCP2155 developers kit to test what happens with the remote >control signal on this part). > >Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!! > >Best Regards, >Jim Woodward >Control Systems Engineer >EIM Controls Inc. >13840 Pike Rd. >Missouri City, TX 77489 >Email: spamBeGonewoodward.jimeim-co.com >Phone: 281-261-3872 > > > part 2 466 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; name=nino.benci.vcf; charset=utf-8 (decoded 7bit) begin:vcard fn:Antonio Benci n:Benci;Antonio org:Monash University;School of Physics & Materials Engineering adr:Clayton Campus;;Building 27;Clayton;VIC;3168;Australia email;internet:spam_OUTelectronic.servicesSTOPspamspme.monash.edu.au title:Professional Officer / Electronic Services Manager tel;work:+613 9905 3649 tel;fax:+613 9905 3637 tel;cell:+61414924833 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.spme.monash.edu.au version:2.1 end:vcard part 3 35 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (decoded 7bit)

'[EE]: Irda controller during 'disable' mode'
2005\03\07@150925 by Rick Thompson

Good day! I've got a MCP2150 IRDA controller on a board hosted by a 16F876A and am not sure of data direction registers while the 2150 is disabled. The application is to be used in a very noisy environment. The 2150 will be in shutdown mode during the "noisy" time to conserve battery power. What I don't know is what the state of the output pins of the 2150 are while it is disabled. Do they go into a high impedance mode requiring me to set the input pins of the 876 as output? Should they be driven high or low? For noise immunity purposes during the noisy time: a) Would I be better to leave the pins on the controller from the 2150 (RX, CTS, etc.) as inputs? (seems to me like 2 input devices connected...bad for noise) or b) Set them as outputs and drive them low or high (don't know which way if so) and then set them as inputs only when the 2150 is to be enabled, then back to outputs when transmission is complete? c) other suggestions? I have series resistors inline anyway to protect the devices should I try both ways, but I would like to know the proper procedure so as to avoid lengthy testing. And I couldn't find anything in the 2150 datasheet that says one way or the other. It says that the device draws up 10uA while not enabled. So, that makes me think I should drive the pins from the microcontroller side to avoid noise entering the 876. And if I drive the pins the wrong way, it may consume excess current which is also what I want to avoid. It's a little confusing to me and any help would be greatly appreciated. Rick

'[OT] irDA interface - UART required?'
2006\01\10@100534 by alan smith

A two part question. First, looking at providing an irDA interface to a current project, simply to get data not to transmit. Is there a simple, inexpensive device that folks have had good luck using.? Second, I assume the data stream is serial coming from these, so is it easier to use a UART, or is the stream slow enough and not really running a baud rate, not to need to use that? I also have a RS232 port attached, so I would need a dual uart part then --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

2006\01\10@100601 by alan smith

2006\01\10@134227 by Mike Hord

> First, looking at providing an irDA interface to a current > project, simply to get data not to transmit. Is there a >simple, inexpensive device that folks have had good luck using.? I've heard good-ish things about Microchip's offerings in this arena. They have a chip which essentially needs only an oscillator and a transceiver, handles all the overhead and takes/produces a standard logic-level async serial stream. Also has DCE/CD/etc. pins for easy use. Can't recall the part number off hand- MCP2150? Mike H.

2006\01\10@170050 by Wouter van Ooijen

> I've heard good-ish things about Microchip's offerings in this > arena. They have a chip which essentially needs only an > oscillator and a transceiver, handles all the overhead and > takes/produces a standard logic-level async serial stream. > Also has DCE/CD/etc. pins for easy use. > > Can't recall the part number off hand- MCP2150? and you'd need the IR chip, like http://www.voti.nl/shop/p/IR-IRDA-1.html :) Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

'[EE] IRDA here to stay?'
2011\06\03@111724 by Sean Breheny

Hi all, I am about to design a product which will be in use for at least 10 years and needs a medium range (about 50cm max) free-space optical data link, low speed (under 9600 bps is fine - even 1200 bps would be acceptable). The product contains both sides of the link so it does not have to communicate with standard products. It needs to be robust to a fair amount of dust (up to a 1cm layer of paper dust) and be able to work in normal ambient room light (i.e., not outdoors). I prototyped a solution using a microcontroller, IR LED, and IR phototransistor and FSK modulation which seems to work well although I have not tested it yet under all of the relevant conditions (e.g. dust). However, a co-worker of mine pointed out that it would be nice to use an off-the-shelf IRDA module, which would have the side benefit of allowing this optical interface to be used also as a debugging port for the product, since IRDA would be easily capable of much higher data rates. I am a bit concerned about designing in IRDA, though, since I do not see it commonly used anymore in consumer devices. I wonder if it is going obsolete and may be difficult to source components for it in, say, 3 or 5 years from now. I searched the web and haven't found anything definite about the future of IRDA - wikipedia seems to indicate that its popularity is being revived by something called "irSimple" which seems to be a variant of IRDA. Also, I found articles which indicate that it is still widely used in consumer products in Japan. I found that Digikey and Mouser both seem to have plenty of stock of IRDA offerings from several manufacturers. What is your opinion? Is IRDA going to be around for at least 5 more years or is it disappearing quickly? Thanks, Sea

2011\06\03@113441 by Herbert Graf

On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 11:17 -0400, Sean Breheny wrote: > What is your opinion? Is IRDA going to be around for at least 5 more > years or is it disappearing quickly? It's always hard to predict the future. IMHO IRDA has already mostly disappeared. Very few devices still have an IRDA port. It's been pretty much usurped by bluetooth. It is still used alot for debug/programming ports on things like electrical meters. Personally, I'd avoid designing something with IRDA and instead use wireless. If you are stuck with optical then perhaps you can just buy enough modules so you'll never have to worry about them no longer being available? TTYL

2011\06\03@114234 by Mike Harrison

On Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:17:23 -0400, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>Hi all, > >I am about to design a product which will be in use for at least 10 >years and needs a medium range (about 50cm max) free-space optical >data link, low speed (under 9600 bps is fine - even 1200 bps would be >acceptable). The product contains both sides of the link so it does >not have to communicate with standard products. It needs to be robust >to a fair amount of dust (up to a 1cm layer of paper dust) and be able >to work in normal ambient room light (i.e., not outdoors). > >I prototyped a solution using a microcontroller, IR LED, and IR >phototransistor and FSK modulation which seems to work well although I >have not tested it yet under all of the relevant conditions (e.g. >dust). > >However, a co-worker of mine pointed out that it would be nice to use >an off-the-shelf IRDA module, which would have the side benefit of >allowing this optical interface to be used also as a debugging port >for the product, since IRDA would be easily capable of much higher >data rates. > >I am a bit concerned about designing in IRDA, though, since I do not >see it commonly used anymore in consumer devices. I wonder if it is >going obsolete and may be difficult to source components for it in, >say, 3 or 5 years from now. I searched the web and haven't found >anything definite about the future of IRDA - wikipedia seems to >indicate that its popularity is being revived by something called >"irSimple" which seems to be a variant of IRDA. Also, I found articles >which indicate that it is still widely used in consumer products in >Japan. I found that Digikey and Mouser both seem to have plenty of >stock of IRDA offerings from several manufacturers. > >What is your opinion? Is IRDA going to be around for at least 5 more >years or is it disappearing quickly? > >Thanks, > >Sean I wouldn't be too concerned about IRDA parts disappearing, they're fairly cheap, so assuming you buy from someone that will warn you of imminent obscolesecence, , you should get enough warning to do a lifetime buy. Something else to consider is IR remote receivers - cheap, good for up to about 2-4kbits, tons of range and IR remote controls aren't going away any time soon.

2011\06\03@114952 by William \Chops\ Westfield

On Jun 3, 2011, at 8:36 AM, Herbert Graf wrote: > I'd avoid designing something with IRDA and instead use wireless. At like 5 to 10x the price and complexity!? I think that the "IRDA modules" that you might be worried about disappearing are not so complicated that they couldn't be duplicated in discrete components with little more effort than your home-brew IR comm scheme... BillW

2011\06\03@115657 by Charles Craft

On 6/3/2011 11:17 AM, Sean Breheny wrote: > Hi all, > > I am about to design a product which will be in use for at least 10 > years and needs a medium range (about 50cm max) free-space optical > data link, low speed (under 9600 bps is fine - even 1200 bps would be > acceptable). The product contains both sides of the link so it does > not have to communicate with standard products. It needs to be robust > to a fair amount of dust (up to a 1cm layer of paper dust) and be able > to work in normal ambient room light (i.e., not outdoors). > > Is that 1cm or 1mm of dust? Did my wife send you the specs for my office

2011\06\03@120244 by alan.b.pearce

> > What is your opinion? Is IRDA going to be around for at least 5 more > > years or is it disappearing quickly? > > It's always hard to predict the future. IMHO IRDA has already mostly > disappeared. Very few devices still have an IRDA port. It's been pretty > much usurped by bluetooth. If this is the case, why do so many of the newer Microchip PIC24 devices have IRDA capability on their serial ports ... ?? -- Scanned by iCritical.

2011\06\03@120453 by Michael Watterson

On 03/06/2011 16:17, Sean Breheny wrote: > What is your opinion? Is IRDA going to be around for at least 5 more > years or is it disappearing quickly? > It's never had much use and is an overkill for what you need. I thought it was dead now (replaced by Bluetooth) though my phone and laptop have it. The range on most is less than 30cm usually. Some are only 10cm, though 5m is possible. Use an 38KHz IR RX as used in TVs and set-boxes. It can manage 1200bps with range of 5m to 10m You use Manchester encoding and 38kHz clock. The very cheap IR RX gives filtered decoded TTL. No complex SW stack needed as per IRDA. IRDA is also a two way protocol, you only need one direction? (If you need two directions just have IR LED and IR RX at both ends). Virtually all the remote controllers are pre-programmed very basic PICs

2011\06\03@124630 by Oli Glaser

On 03/06/2011 16:17, Sean Breheny wrote: > What is your opinion? Is IRDA going to be around for at least 5 more > years or is it disappearing quickly? > I think it has obviously become far less popular, with the advent of bluetooth and stuff. However, I don't think it will disappear altogether for quite some time, there are still plenty of applications that are more suited to an easily implemented, cheap, line of sight solution (for which RF would be overkill) Even if it did disappear, as noted I'm sure you could quite easily conjure up your own. I doubt very much this would be needed though - I know it's not quite the same , but look at e.g. RS232, USB, SPI, I2C etc, has been around for ages but it is still reasonably common and ICs available. Hard to be certain, but I'm betting on it being good for a while (as long as remotes use the technology anyway..) I think I would go for it.

2011\06\03@131610 by Mike Harrison

On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 17:04:36 +0100, you wrote: >No complex SW stack needed as per IRDA. You don't need to implement the stack if you just want simple 2-way comms between your own hsradware - with an IRDA-capable UART it's like URAT with more error sources. It can be bit-bashed if your UART doesn't have IRDA support

2011\06\03@133059 by Herbert Graf

On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 08:49 -0700, William "Chops" Westfield wrote: > On Jun 3, 2011, at 8:36 AM, Herbert Graf wrote: > > > I'd avoid designing something with IRDA and instead use wireless. > > At like 5 to 10x the price and complexity!? 5-10x? Wireless modules can be had for a few bucks each, I don't know what the price of an IRDA module is, but I'll give you that on price. Complexity? It's pretty trivial to drive a wireless module, in fact the algorithms used are pretty similar to what you'd do with an optical connection, so complexity? The same IMHO. TTYL

2011\06\03@134706 by doug metzler

Can you give me an example of a few $ wireless module? DougM On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Herbert Graf <RemoveMEhkgrafspamgmail.com> wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 08:49 -0700, William "Chops" Westfield wrote: > > On Jun 3, 2011, at 8:36 AM, Herbert Graf wrote: > > > > > I'd avoid designing something with IRDA and instead use wireless. > > > > At like 5 to 10x the price and complexity!? > > 5-10x? > > Wireless modules can be had for a few bucks each, I don't know what the > price of an IRDA module is, but I'll give you that on price. > > Complexity? It's pretty trivial to drive a wireless module, in fact the > algorithms used are pretty similar to what you'd do with an optical > connection, so complexity? The same IMHO. > > TTYL > >

2011\06\03@135412 by Sean Breheny

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I think RS-232 is a valid comparison, although the more troubling thing about IRDA is that it needs not only an IC or two but also the optical components, so it isn't just a matter of a single IC like an RS-232 level converter. My gut feeling therefore is that RS-232 will outlive IRDA. You heard correctly that I must be able to deal with 1 centimeter of dust. This is because the two halves of the link are one above the other so that the TX side is part of a horizontal surface and will collect dust. Yes, I also only need unidirectional comms. This is in an environment where several of these devices could be in close proximity to each other and there cannot be crosstalk between them - which is why I am opting for optical instead of RF. Sean On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Oli Glaser <TakeThisOuToli.glaserspamRemoveMEtalktalk.net> wrote: {Quote hidden}> On 03/06/2011 16:17, Sean Breheny wrote: >> What is your opinion? Is IRDA going to be around for at least 5 more >> years or is it disappearing quickly? >> > > I think it has obviously become far less popular, with the advent of > bluetooth and stuff. > However, I don't think it will disappear altogether for quite some time, > there are still plenty of applications that are more suited to an easily > implemented, cheap, line of sight solution (for which RF would be overkill) > Even if it did disappear, as noted I'm sure you could quite easily > conjure up your own. I doubt very much this would be needed though - I > know it's not quite the same , but look at e.g. RS232, USB, SPI, I2C > etc, has been around for ages but it is still reasonably common and ICs > available. > Hard to be certain, but I'm betting on it being good for a while (as > long as remotes use the technology anyway..) > I think I would go for it. > > >

2011\06\03@135750 by Michael Watterson

On 03/06/2011 17:45, Oli Glaser wrote: > Hard to be certain, but I'm betting on it being good for a while (as > long as remotes use the technology anyway..) Almost no remotes use IRDA They use 36KHz to 40KHz OOK with Manchester encoding, and one way. Similar modules for 433Mhz (or 315MHz USA) can use the same SW and only $2 more expensive

2011\06\03@135758 by doug metzler

how is light going to get through a cm of dust? Is this pixie dust? DougM On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Sean Breheny <KILLspamshb7spamspam_OUTcornell.edu> wrote: {Quote hidden}> Thanks to everyone for their replies. > > I think RS-232 is a valid comparison, although the more troubling > thing about IRDA is that it needs not only an IC or two but also the > optical components, so it isn't just a matter of a single IC like an > RS-232 level converter. My gut feeling therefore is that RS-232 will > outlive IRDA. > > You heard correctly that I must be able to deal with 1 centimeter of > dust. This is because the two halves of the link are one above the > other so that the TX side is part of a horizontal surface and will > collect dust. Yes, I also only need unidirectional comms. > > This is in an environment where several of these devices could be in > close proximity to each other and there cannot be crosstalk between > them - which is why I am opting for optical instead of RF. > > Sean > > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Oli Glaser <oli.glaserRemoveMEtalktalk.net> > wrote: > > On 03/06/2011 16:17, Sean Breheny wrote: > >> What is your opinion? Is IRDA going to be around for at least 5 more > >> years or is it disappearing quickly? > >> > > > > I think it has obviously become far less popular, with the advent of > > bluetooth and stuff. > > However, I don't think it will disappear altogether for quite some time, > > there are still plenty of applications that are more suited to an easily > > implemented, cheap, line of sight solution (for which RF would be > overkill) > > Even if it did disappear, as noted I'm sure you could quite easily > > conjure up your own. I doubt very much this would be needed though - I > > know it's not quite the same , but look at e.g. RS232, USB, SPI, I2C > > etc, has been around for ages but it is still reasonably common and ICs > > available. > > Hard to be certain, but I'm betting on it being good for a while (as > > long as remotes use the technology anyway..) > > I think I would go for it. > > > > > > --

2011\06\03@135931 by Michael Watterson

On 03/06/2011 18:46, doug metzler wrote: > Can you give me an example of a few $ wireless module? > > DougM > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Herbert Graf<EraseMEhkgrafSTOPspamRemoveMEgmail.com> wrote: > OOK 315/433/868/915 MHz is very cheap and simple. 2.4Ghz is less cheap, simple and not so dear if not WiFi or BT

2011\06\03@141132 by doug metzler

This is where you get into the area of error correction, though. very cheap modules just push through bits and errors be damned. bt and other modules do your error correction for you, so what goes in is guaranteed to be what comes out. Thanks, DougM On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Michael Watterson <spam_OUTmikeRemoveMEEraseMEradioway.org>wrote: > On 03/06/2011 18:46, doug metzler wrote: > > Can you give me an example of a few $ wireless module? > > > > DougM > > > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Herbert Graf<TakeThisOuThkgrafRemoveME@spam@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > OOK 315/433/868/915 MHz is very cheap and simple. > 2.4Ghz is less cheap, simple and not so dear if not WiFi or BT. >

2011\06\03@143654 by Wouter van Ooijen

On 3/6/2011 7:46 PM, doug metzler wrote: > Can you give me an example of a few $ wireless module? I sell RFM70 for $4.41 : http://www.voti.nl/shop/p/HF-RFM70-D.html -- Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2011\06\03@144453 by Michael Watterson

On 03/06/2011 19:11, doug metzler wrote: > This is where you get into the area of error correction, though. very cheap > modules just push through bits and errors be damned. bt and other modules > do your error correction for you, so what goes in is guaranteed to be what > comes out. Even some quite expensive 2.4Ghz it's up to you to encrypt and add FEC. Only if you have a module implementing a complete stack that has ECC included in spec gives automatic FEC and/or retrie

2011\06\03@144851 by Michael Watterson

On 03/06/2011 18:57, doug metzler wrote: > how is light going to get through a cm of dust? Is this pixie dust? > > DougM > > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Sean Breheny<EraseMEshb7RemoveMEcornell.edu> wrote: IRDA is a high speed protocol it likely won't. with basic IR remote control you can use more power on LED (it's only an LED and you add your own driver) and it would only be 1200 bps on 38kHz OOK carrier. Depends how tight packed the dust is, I'd not rule it out without a test

2011\06\03@145858 by Charles Craft

On 6/3/2011 1:32 PM, Herbert Graf wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 08:49 -0700, William "Chops" Westfield wrote: > >> On Jun 3, 2011, at 8:36 AM, Herbert Graf wrote: >> >> >>> I'd avoid designing something with IRDA and instead use wireless. >>> >> At like 5 to 10x the price and complexity!? >> > 5-10x? > > Wireless modules can be had for a few bucks each, I don't know what the > price of an IRDA module is, but I'll give you that on price. > > Complexity? It's pretty trivial to drive a wireless module, in fact the > algorithms used are pretty similar to what you'd do with an optical > connection, so complexity? The same IMHO. > > TTYL > > I think the complexity with wireless comes with understanding the FCC rules.. The dirt cheap modules probably aren't certified. And the certified modules are suspect depending on how they're packed into the final product

2011\06\03@154727 by Robert Csaba Molnar

I would not worry about IRDA disappearing any time soon. It's widely used in metering equipment (electricity/gas meters, etc) and other industrial products. I'm working with such equipment and, as a requirement, newly designed units have IRDA estimated lifetime is about 30 years. So , as far as I am concerned, IRDA is here to stay. Kind Regards, Robert Csaba Molnar --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Charles Craft <spamchucksea.....spammindspring.com> wrote: From: Charles Craft <chuckseaspam_OUT@spam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [EE] IRDA here to stay? To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <.....piclistspam.....mit.edu> Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 9:58 PM On 6/3/2011 1:32 PM, Herbert Graf wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 08:49 -0700, William "Chops" Westfield wrote: > >> On Jun 3, 2011, at 8:36 AM, Herbert Graf wrote: >> >> >>> I'd avoid designing something with IRDA and instead use wireless. >>> >> At like 5 to 10x the price and complexity!? >> > 5-10x? > > Wireless modules can be had for a few bucks each, I don't know what the > price of an IRDA module is, but I'll give you that on price. > > Complexity? It's pretty trivial to drive a wireless module, in fact the > algorithms used are pretty similar to what you'd do with an optical > connection, so complexity? The same IMHO. > > TTYL > > I think the complexity with wireless comes with understanding the FCC rules.. The dirt cheap modules probably aren't certified. And the certified modules are suspect depending on how they're packed into the final product

2011\06\03@161421 by John Gardner

Sean - Will the budget allow a tiny servo/feather duster? Rub

2011\06\03@162147 by Oli Glaser

On 03/06/2011 18:57, Michael Watterson wrote: > On 03/06/2011 17:45, Oli Glaser wrote: >> Hard to be certain, but I'm betting on it being good for a while (as >> long as remotes use the technology anyway..) > Almost no remotes use IRDA > They use 36KHz to 40KHz OOK with Manchester encoding, and one way. Yes, your right, I got confused there. I still think it will be around for a while though.

2011\06\03@205728 by M.L.

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Charles Craft <chuckseaKILLspamEraseMEmindspring.com> wrote: > I think the complexity with wireless comes with understanding the FCC rules. > The dirt cheap modules probably aren't certified. > And the certified modules are suspect depending on how they're packed > into the final product. You're correct. The MRF24J40MA is one of the cheapest FCC certified modules, at around $8 a piece (last I checked) If you're going to sell 10,000 units you can go much cheaper by rolling your own. Time to market will be longer. -- Martin K

2011\06\04@171020 by Sean Breheny

Oh don't be silly - I think the best solution would be to have a a small bird tied to the device along with a photo of an owl. When the link fails (presumably due to dust), a small linear actuator will raise the photo of the own and play a "hoot" sound on a tiny speaker. This will cause the bird to try to fly away - which will blow the dust off. MUCH simpler and more elegant solution. :) Sean On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:14 PM, John Gardner <EraseMEgoflo3@spam@@spam@gmail.com> wrote: > Sean - > > Will the budget allow a tiny servo/feather duster? > > Rube >

2011\06\04@180923 by Oli Glaser

On 04/06/2011 22:10, Sean Breheny wrote: > Oh don't be silly - I think the best solution would be to have a a > small bird tied to the device along with a photo of an owl. When the > link fails (presumably due to dust), a small linear actuator will > raise the photo of the own and play a "hoot" sound on a tiny speaker. > This will cause the bird to try to fly away - which will blow the dust > off. MUCH simpler and more elegant solution.:) Brilliant! Heath and Rube would be most impressed. You would need to feed the bird of course, but that's a minor detail...

2011\06\04@182116 by Michael Watterson

On 04/06/2011 23:09, Oli Glaser wrote: > Brilliant! Heath and Rube would be most impressed. > You would need to feed the bird of course, but that's a minor detail... Can any avians digest cellulose? Or keep a guinea pig. They can digest paper made from wood pulp. Newspapers do them no harm as long as they don't read them before eating.

2011\06\04@183217 by Oli Glaser

On 04/06/2011 23:20, Michael Watterson wrote: > On 04/06/2011 23:09, Oli Glaser wrote: >> > Brilliant! Heath and Rube would be most impressed. >> > You would need to feed the bird of course, but that's a minor detail.... > Can any avians digest cellulose? > Or keep a guinea pig. They can digest paper made from wood pulp. But they don't fly, which might impair the workings of the proposed device somewhat.. :-) > > Newspapers do them no harm as long as they don't read them before eating. > :-)

2011\06\04@184018 by John Gardner

Well, unless you've got a line on small wampus cats, all these critters have exhaust, as well as intake..

2011\06\04@193557 by Sean Breheny

The guinea pig could be mounted to the device in such a fashion that it would "outgas in the general direction" of the sensor, thereby flushing it clear of all dust :) On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Oli Glaser <@spam@oli.glaserspamKILLspamtalktalk.net> wrote: {Quote hidden}> On 04/06/2011 23:20, Michael Watterson wrote: >> On 04/06/2011 23:09, Oli Glaser wrote: >>> > Brilliant! Heath and Rube would be most impressed. >>> > You would need to feed the bird of course, but that's a minor detail... >> Can any avians digest cellulose? >> Or keep a guinea pig. They can digest paper made from wood pulp. > > But they don't fly, which might impair the workings of the proposed > device somewhat.. :-) > >> >> Newspapers do them no harm as long as they don't read them before eating.. >> > > :-) > > >

2011\06\04@201327 by Peter Johansson

On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Oli Glaser <spamBeGoneoli.glaserRemoveMEEraseMEtalktalk.net> wrote: > On 04/06/2011 22:10, Sean Breheny wrote: >> Oh don't be silly - I think the best solution would be to have a a >> small bird tied to the device along with a photo of an owl. When the >> link fails (presumably due to dust), a small linear actuator will >> raise the photo of the own and play a "hoot" sound on a tiny speaker. >> This will cause the bird to try to fly away - which will blow the dust >> off. MUCH simpler and more elegant solution.:) > > Brilliant! Heath and Rube would be most impressed. > You would need to feed the bird of course, but that's a minor detail... And something to clean up the bird droppings as well. A yak hair brush, perhaps? -p

2011\06\05@183537 by Bob Axtell

On 6/3/2011 8:56 AM, Charles Craft wrote: > On 6/3/2011 11:17 AM, Sean Breheny wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I am about to design a product which will be in use for at least 10 >> years and needs a medium range (about 50cm max) free-space optical >> data link, low speed (under 9600 bps is fine - even 1200 bps would be >> acceptable). The product contains both sides of the link so it does >> not have to communicate with standard products. It needs to be robust >> to a fair amount of dust (up to a 1cm layer of paper dust) and be able >> to work in normal ambient room light (i.e., not outdoors). >> >> > Is that 1cm or 1mm of dust? > Did my wife send you the specs for my office? There is an almost-hidden defect in the IRDA module that is often overlooked: loss of IR emitter intensity over time. If you need 10+ years of life, IRDA is the wrong device unless it is used infrequently, like taking a meter reading, or checking status monthly, etc. Every time I tried to use an IRDA or a TV-style IR remote system, I was foiled by one thing or another. Mostly the problem was loss of distance in sunlight. Works to 50m at night but in daylight you are lucky to have one meter of distance. --Bob

2011\06\05@184801 by Bob Axtell

On 6/3/2011 10:32 AM, Herbert Graf wrote: > On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 08:49 -0700, William "Chops" Westfield wrote: >> On Jun 3, 2011, at 8:36 AM, Herbert Graf wrote: >> >>> I'd avoid designing something with IRDA and instead use wireless. >> At like 5 to 10x the price and complexity!? > 5-10x? > > Wireless modules can be had for a few bucks each, I don't know what the > price of an IRDA module is, but I'll give you that on price. > > Complexity? It's pretty trivial to drive a wireless module, in fact the > algorithms used are pretty similar to what you'd do with an optical > connection, so complexity? The same IMHO. > > TTYL > Herbert, I agree completely. I found a 2GB-band wireless module controlled by I2C complete with SPI interface as well as a built-in antenna for $18 for a PAIR of modules. It has 154 channels, built-in encryption/decryption and IN/OUT FIFO (32 character) buffers. Range is supposed to be 100m with the built-in antenna. I'll let the list know how it goes when they get here from China. --Bob

2011\06\05@185545 by Bob Axtell

2011\06\05@210000 by RussellMc

Inductive coupling / "Near Field Communication" / NFC sounds close to ideal.. Can be used to power remote too if desired. They say 4 cm range here but range can be metres if desired. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication > several of these devices could be in close proximity to each other Depending on the value of "close", 50 cm is getting a bit far if you have multiple units but if you can get the two closer together and reduce available range then you can use N in closish physical proximity. Dust no problem. Probably no certification issues either (YMMV). Potentially low cost and simple. Capacitive coupling also worth thinking about. Russel

2011\06\05@230434 by Sean Breheny

Hi Bob, Interesting. I would guess that this issue of life is due to overdriving the IR emitter with pulses of high current? or are you saying that IR LEDs fail early even when operated at low to moderate current? Do you know where I could find more info on this? I may run into the same problem with the "roll-your-own" solution. I don't have to deal with direct sunlight as this is indoors only and the direction of the transmission is vertical and the detector is facing downward and covering the transmitter. Sean On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Bob Axtell <RemoveMEengineerKILLspamRemoveMEcotse.net> wrote: {Quote hidden}> There is an almost-hidden defect in the IRDA module that is often > overlooked: loss of > IR emitter intensity over time. If you need 10+ years of life, IRDA is > the wrong device unless it is > used infrequently, like taking a meter reading, or checking status > monthly, etc. > > Every time I tried to use an IRDA or a TV-style IR remote system, I was > foiled by one thing > or another. Mostly the problem was loss of distance in sunlight. Works > to 50m at night but > in daylight you are lucky to have one meter of distance. > > --Bob A >

2011\06\05@230522 by Sean Breheny

Interesting idea, Russell, but at this point time is quite tight and I don't think I could switch to NFC unless I were to use an off-the-shelf solution. I already have an IR-based proto working. Sean On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 8:59 PM, RussellMc <TakeThisOuTapptechnzgmail.com> wrote: {Quote hidden}> Inductive coupling / "Near Field Communication" / NFC sounds close to ideal. > Can be used to power remote too if desired. > They say 4 cm range here but range can be metres if desired. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication > >> several of these devices could be in close proximity to each other > > Depending on the value of "close", 50 cm is getting a bit far if you > have multiple units but if you can get the two closer together and > reduce available range then you can use N in closish physical > proximity. Dust no problem. Probably no certification issues either > (YMMV). Potentially low cost and simple. > > Capacitive coupling also worth thinking about. > > > Russell >

'[EE] NFC is the cat's pajamas ...was: IRDA here'
2011\06\06@114817 by YES NOPE9

Rzzzzzzzz mentioned NFC ( near field communications ) as a great emerging technology. I predict that NFC will become super-ubiquitous. It will be one of those "things" that everyone takes for granted. "Touch an object" ( get your hand within 50cm of it ) and it will 'grok" you. That said ...... Is anyone on the guru list doing cool things with NFC ? Best 99guspuppe

2011\06\06@131646 by Michael Watterson

On 06/06/2011 16:47, YES NOPE9 wrote: > It will be one of those "things" that everyone takes for granted. "Touch an object" ( get your hand within 50cm of it ) and it will 'grok" you. I hope not. Because someone else will probably know too. Unless I'm doing stock control I can't imagine why I'd want this. There are some very nice stock systems that work up to 50cm with barcodes. Without the database the barcode is useless if it's a serial number. I'd like NFC devices to be totally dumb and only be an Unique Id. Then security is in your database, not in some public tag that will be cracked in several days/months/years and has to be replaced. Dumbest idea ever storing info on passports using NFC. A gift to cloners, forgers and people that want to spy on you.

'[EE] IRDA here to stay?'
2011\06\06@204134 by RussellMc

I noted - > Capacitive coupling also worth thinking about. but I don't think that anyone picked up on that. It is easily implemented [tm], low cost and will easily achieve the data rates desired. The stated range requirement would be getting very hard to meet, but if a much smaller range was tolerable then it may provide a very good fit to the requirement. Russel

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