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'[PICLIST] I got those ICD blues'
2000\09\12@030403 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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Been using an ICD for some development work on a project, and although I
have been able to make it work I've had a few problems:
1) Noise.  The ICD seems to generate a huge amount of noise, swamping some
small analoguge signals on our board whenever it's connected.  I suspect
this is due the the charge pump on board the ICD.

2) MPLAB is flaky!  Yeah, I guess everyone knows that.  But, if I have to
disconnect the ICD cable during a debug session for whatever reason, then
after clicking on umpteen dialogue boxes telling me that ICD Comms has
failed, if I click on the re-connect button MPLAB either hangs or crashes
with an illegal operation.  If I use the ICD purely as a programmer, the
reconnect button works fine.  This is under Win 95.

3) SLOW! We are using a 16F877 part which is over half full.  I have checked
the "Erase before programming" but it still gives me time to walk to the
coffee machine, and back before it's finished ( getting through way too much
coffee at the moment!). Is the Advanced Transdata parallel port device any
better in this respect?  (Having thoughts of buying one and "borrowing" the
Microchip one for home).

Any advice on this would be appreciated as I find the debugger very handy to
use compared to the emulator with it's huge pod balanced on a delicate SMT
socket on our board.  Also any good SMT sockets(with a matching plug) that
anyone has used for ICD connection: requirements are 1) small as possible,
2) low profile, 3) 6 way (actually 5 way would be fine).

Regards

Mike

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'[PIC]: Re: I got those ICD blues'
2000\09\12@043719 by staff

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Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:
>

> 3) SLOW! We are using a 16F877 part which is over half full.  I have checked
> the "Erase before programming" but it still gives me time to walk to the
> coffee machine, and back before it's finished ( getting through way too much
> coffee at the moment!). Is the Advanced Transdata parallel port device any
> better in this respect?  (Having thoughts of buying one and "borrowing" the
> Microchip one for home).


Hi Mike, sorry I don't know much about the ICD, but I do know that
the 877 takes a couple of minutes to program no matter what programmer
you are using. Nature of flash memory. If you can't select to only
program
some of the memory blocks, try using a 874 this will be twice as quick
providing you can fit the ram etc. I sometimes do this with the app,
or even for testing part of an app. Speeds up the process.

Roman

PS. You should put the tag [PIC]: on your emails, I don't think
everybody
gets 'em without the right tag.

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2000\09\12@061840 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

Just to add to the above, when ever I enable debug mode, the MSSP on the
target no longer works. Is this a known issue? I have an I2C slave that
works (almost) perfectly when I am not using the debugger, but refuses to
acknowedge when the debugger is used.  Looking at the SSPBUF register via
the debugger shows all zero's so it looks as if even the slave address isn't
being clocked in.

Mike

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2000\09\12@064202 by Octavio P Nogueira

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> Just to add to the above, when ever I enable debug mode, the MSSP on the
> target no longer works. Is this a known issue? I have an I2C slave that
> works (almost) perfectly when I am not using the debugger, but refuses to
> acknowedge when the debugger is used.  Looking at the SSPBUF register via
> the debugger shows all zero's so it looks as if even the slave address
isn't
> being clocked in.
>
> Mike

I've been using it as a I2C master with no problem
with the ICD.

Friendly Regards

Octavio Nogueira
===================================================
.....nogueiraKILLspamspam.....propic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
ProPic tools - low cost PIC programmer and emulator
http://www.propic2.com
===================================================

{Original Message removed}

2000\09\12@065901 by Kevin Blain

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> Just to add to the above, when ever I enable debug mode, the MSSP on the
> target no longer works. Is this a known issue? I have an I2C slave that
> works (almost) perfectly when I am not using the debugger, but refuses to
> acknowedge when the debugger is used.  Looking at the SSPBUF register via
> the debugger shows all zero's so it looks as if even the slave address
isn't
> being clocked in.
>
> Mike


It is known that care should be taken when doing the above, and reading
SSPBUF clears SSPBUF (and a few bits like BF and SSPOV). Therefore, use the
watch windows to view the file registers you wish to see, and avoid reading
SSPBUF. Instead, break after a command like MOVF SSPBUF,W    and read W.

regards, Kevin

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'[PICLIST] I got those ICD blues'
2000\09\12@105946 by Howard Cripe

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We have both the Microchip ICD unit (designed by Advanced Transdata) and a
parallel unit from Advanced Transdata. The parallel ICD is almost twice
faster at programming than the serial Microchip ICD. It also provides some
external trigger input pins to set up externally triggered breakpoints. It
is different, though, in that it connects to the target board more like an
In Circuit Emulator. You put the PIC chip on the ICD board, then connect a
40 pin ribbon cable (with a DIP plug) into the socket for the PIC chip on
the target board. It does have pins for an "In Circuit Programming" cable
(like the Microchip ICD), but you have to provide your own cable and you
can't debug with this connection like you can with the MPLAB-ICD. The 40
pin ribbon cable that comes with the Advanced Transdata ICD is about 7-8
inches long. You will still have problems if you disconnect the ICD unit
from the PC, but since it is powered by its own power supply and has the
PIC processor on-board, you tend to have less disconnect problems overall.
There is no charge pump on this unit, so the noise should be less. I
haven't done a lot with analog yet so I can't be sure.

Howard Cripe



At 08:01 AM 9/12/00 +0100, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\09\12@110602 by Richard Ramsey

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Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:

> Been using an ICD for some development work on a project, and although I
> have been able to make it work I've had a few problems:
> 1) Noise.  The ICD seems to generate a huge amount of noise, swamping some
> small analoguge signals on our board whenever it's connected.  I suspect
> this is due the the charge pump on board the ICD.
>

We experience this noise problem also. It is very annoying as we are using A/D,
and this causes an extreme amount of noise.

>
> 2) MPLAB is flaky!  Yeah, I guess everyone knows that.  But, if I have to
> disconnect the ICD cable during a debug session for whatever reason, then
> after clicking on umpteen dialogue boxes telling me that ICD Comms has
> failed, if I click on the re-connect button MPLAB either hangs or crashes
> with an illegal operation.  If I use the ICD purely as a programmer, the
> reconnect button works fine.  This is under Win 95.
>

We upgraded to the new version of the firmware, and that seems to fix this
problem, but you will encounter new problems. one of which is the ICD will start
up the pic while pluged up. That is if the the doesn't have debug code on it.
This gets annoying for one of the projects we are on.

>
> 3) SLOW! We are using a 16F877 part which is over half full.  I have checked
> the "Erase before programming" but it still gives me time to walk to the
> coffee machine, and back before it's finished ( getting through way too much
> coffee at the moment!). Is the Advanced Transdata parallel port device any
> better in this respect?  (Having thoughts of buying one and "borrowing" the
> Microchip one for home).
>

We found that the programming voltage on the PC has a lot to do with it, and
also the serial port being used. The voltage mod that microchip released seemed
to fix this problem. The serial port problem was fixed either by the voltage mod
or firmware upgrade, I don't know which. In any case programming this way is
slow.

Richard Ramsey
Sim-Addicts Design Group

{Quote hidden}

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'[PIC]: RE: I got those ICD blues'
2000\09\12@110955 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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This is an excellent bit of info, thanks Howard.  It would be nice if it
could do debugging over the ICSP cable, but the extra features outweigh that
IMHO.  I have actualy slightly modified the Microchip unit to enable it to
use separate PSU which has helped keep my sanity.  The noise issue is the
biggest gripe I had, so it looks as if Transdada will be making a sale
shortly!

Regards

Mike

> {Original Message removed}

'[PIC]: I got those ICD blues'
2000\09\12@113725 by jamesnewton

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Have you considered trying the ROMZap or EMU-II monitor programs?

see
http://www.piclist.com/../microchip/devtools
aka
http://www.piclist.com/techref/default.asp?url=microchip/devtools

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{Original Message removed}

'[EE]: Measuring Noise (was: I got those ICD blues'
2000\09\12@115644 by Mitchell D. Miller

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> 1) Noise.  The ICD seems to generate a huge amount of noise, swamping some
> small analoguge signals on our board whenever it's connected.  I suspect
> this is due the the charge pump on board the ICD.

How does one go about detecting how noisy a particular circuit is?  I've got
a nice scope, but am not sure how to use it to monitor for noise.

-- Mitch

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'[PIC]: I got those ICD blues'
2000\09\12@131351 by jamesnewton

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I'd love to hear from HiTech about ICD integration issues (if there are any)
and how to use a .cod file from another system.

Others have indicated that replacing the charge pump with a regulated supply
has helped. see
http://www.piclist.com/../microchip/icd

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{Original Message removed}

2000\09\12@192247 by Tony Nixon

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Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:

> 3) SLOW! We are using a 16F877 part which is over half full.  I have checked
> the "Erase before programming" but it still gives me time to walk to the
> coffee machine, and back before it's finished ( getting through way too much
> coffee at the moment!). Is the Advanced Transdata parallel port device any
> better in this respect?  (Having thoughts of buying one and "borrowing" the
> Microchip one for home).

I just used ROMzap to load 4K of code into a 16F877. It took 23 seconds
via the serial port.

ROMzap also has a Turbo Mode and can dramatically reduce the
re-programming time. For example if you change only 1 ROM word, a normal
programmer will reprogram the entire chip. ROmzap will only reprogram
the changed word and this process takes milli seconds.

Turbo mode won't work that fast if you add or subtract words near the
start of the code space. In that case the ROM past the first changed
address will have to be reprogrammed.

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Best regards

Tony

ICmicro's
http://www.picnpoke.com
salesEraseMEspam.....picnpoke.com

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'[EE]: Measuring Noise (was: I got those ICD blues'
2000\09\12@220838 by Richard Ramsey

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Try putting your scope A/C turn down the volts and time. you should see a lot of
noise. This will show you ripple noise on any dc signal.

Richard Ramsey
Sim-Addicts Design Group


"Mitchell D. Miller" wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2000\09\12@224042 by Mitchell D. Miller

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> Try putting your scope A/C turn down the volts and time. you should see a
lot of
> noise. This will show you ripple noise on any dc signal.

By "turn down the time" do you mean low period, or low frequency (ie: long
period)?

What's considered good?

-- Mitch

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2000\09\13@092132 by Richard Ramsey

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high frequency, lets say around 5ms/div adjust from there.

Richard Ramsey
Sim-Addicts Design Group

"Mitchell D. Miller" wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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