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PICList Thread
'[PICLIST] FUTABA CAMPAC 64K'
2001\07\08@052644 by Angelos Gonias

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Hi everyone. I'm new to this list however I'm quite skilled with electronic
hardware and programming.

Some of you may be involved with radio controlled (RC) modelling and thus
will know that I am on about. For those who don't... Modern RC transmitters
are computerised and use EEPROM memory modules for storing user settings.
Futaba (probably the RC market leader) uses two types of these modules
16Kbit and 64Kbit.

So, why clone them? Because the 16Kbit memory module is sold for 45GBP and
all it has inside is a I2C interfaced 24C16 EEPROM.

However things get more complex with the 64Kbit module. Futaba probably
realised that people easily cloned the 16Kbit modules and thus they
implemented their own command structure for the 64Kbit module. Although I2C
is still used a 24C64 doesn't work. I have captured the communication
between the radio and the computer and I found that Futaba got rid of the
chip select bits and then compressed the 13 address bits and R/W* into two
bytes instead of the 3 used by 24C64. For their implementation they used a
Hitachi H8/3101 microcontroller with 8KByte internal EEPROOM to emulate an
EEPROM chip.

No PIC has such amount of internal EEPROM thus I tried to use an external
24C64 on a second I2C bus. While the PIC accesses the 24C64 it keeps the SCL
line (to the radio) low to force the radio's computer into wait states. This
is fine according to I2C specification, but the radio doesn't like it.

Time for my questions....

A. Is there any PIC that has 8KByte of internal EEPROM? (just in case I
missed it)
B. If not, is there any other uC which does? (apart from the H8) which...
   1. I can't easily source in UK
   2. Hitachi still hasn't send me the datasheet after several emails and
two months waiting.
   3. No fee development tools are on the Internet.

Any other suggestions are welcome. Have a look at my web page
http://www.model-gadgets.com

Many thanks for reading.

-Angelos

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2001\07\08@095207 by mike

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How about using a parallel eeprom on the PIC? This should give fast
enough access time, but require a PIC with enough pins to drive the
address & data buses

Alternatively, you may be able to interleave access to the eeprom with
the radio comms, i.e. when you have received the first address byte,
send it to the eeprom while receiving the second. Maybe you could even
interleave on a bit-by-bit basis for minimum delay.  Using a 25xx series SPI eeprom will make this a LOT easier as the
protocol is much simpler, and faster than I2C. If speed is a major
issue to make this work, a PIC with SPI would make it even faster.
{Quote hidden}

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2001\07\08@173646 by Justin Fielding

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I fly RC too, I never saw the point in making a 64k clone, just make a few
16k clones instead.  It is much easier and probably cheaper.  Also it is
more convenient as you can keep a few in a safe place with all your programs
backed up.

Justin.

BTW if you repost with [PIC]: in front of your subject you will get a
greater response.

{Original Message removed}

2001\07\08@175813 by Angelos Gonias

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There are many good reasons for making a 64Kbit CAMPac. These include...
1. The T9ZAP which I use will only work with 64Kbit CAMPacs
2. There is a big marker of people like me want to backup a settings from a
couple of helis but don't want to spend 60GBP
3. None else cloned it; thus I could be the first
4. Good project to prove my reverse engineering skills ;-)

Plus many more....

-Angelos


{Original Message removed}

2001\07\08@182252 by Justin Fielding

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many more?  Heli settings?  My heli settings only use one model memory..


----- Original Message -----
From: "Angelos Gonias" <spam_OUTangelos.goniasTakeThisOuTspamSUNDERLAND.AC.UK>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: FUTABA CAMPAC 64K


{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2001\07\08@192705 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>many more?  Heli settings?  My heli settings only use one model memory..

       Some people has one heli for each 2 days of the month. A friend of mine has 18. Believe it or not ;o)


---8<---Corte aqui---8<----

Alexandre Souza
taitospamKILLspamterra.com.br
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/pinball/

---8<---Corte aqui---8<----

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2001\07\09@042534 by Angelos Gonias

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Agree, but how many hours will you need to get it perfect again if you loose
them?
I don't know your flying skills and requirements from the radio. You can get
a heli to hover and fly with minimal adjustments. However it usually takes
me least 4 hours (some at home + some at the field) before I get my heli
ready for 3D. Also, you will never get it the same as it was before, so you
will still have to get used to the new setup.

-Angelos


-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Justin Fielding
Sent: 08 July 2001 23:19
To: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: FUTABA CAMPAC 64K


many more?  Heli settings?  My heli settings only use one model memory..

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2001\07\09@044441 by Justin Fielding

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Is it so hard to swap a campac every month or so?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexandre Domingos F. Souza" <@spam@taitoKILLspamspamTERRA.COM.BR>
To: <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: FUTABA CAMPAC 64K


>many more?  Heli settings?  My heli settings only use one model memory..

       Some people has one heli for each 2 days of the month. A friend of
mine has 18. Believe it or not ;o)


---8<---Corte aqui---8<----

Alexandre Souza
RemoveMEtaitoTakeThisOuTspamterra.com.br
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/pinball/

---8<---Corte aqui---8<----

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2001\07\09@044652 by Justin Fielding

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lol, just look after it.  If you have a 64k one it is more likely to get
damaged and then you have to start all over, rather than keeping a backup of
the 16k one in your bedroom draw or car ashtray.  Anyway, if you want to
bother then good for you, I just though it was a bit too much effort for a
small gain.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Angelos Gonias" <TakeThisOuTangelos.goniasEraseMEspamspam_OUTSUNDERLAND.AC.UK>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: FUTABA CAMPAC 64K


> Agree, but how many hours will you need to get it perfect again if you
loose
> them?
> I don't know your flying skills and requirements from the radio. You can
get
> a heli to hover and fly with minimal adjustments. However it usually takes
> me least 4 hours (some at home + some at the field) before I get my heli
> ready for 3D. Also, you will never get it the same as it was before, so
you
> will still have to get used to the new setup.
>
> -Angelos
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2001\07\09@072031 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>Is it so hard to swap a campac every month or so?

       Not so hard, but he wants. What can I do? :o)))


---8<---Corte aqui---8<----

Alexandre Souza
taitoEraseMEspam.....terra.com.br
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/pinball/

---8<---Corte aqui---8<----

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