Searching \ for ' Embedded Web Server' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=embedded+web+server
Search entire site for: 'Embedded Web Server'.

No exact or substring matches. trying for part
PICList Thread
'PIC embedded Web Server????'
1998\01\29@163357 by Gary T. Pepper

flavicon
face
Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone has ever seen or developed an application where
any PIC processor (I assume one of the higher performance devices) was used
as the basis for an embedded web server?  You might find this question a
bit surprising, however, I have recently read an article about an embedded
web server designed around an 8051 CPU (see Circuit Cellar Ink, pp 60-64,
volume #88, Nov 1997).  In this article, the remote-server software
"engine" is said to typically consume just over 1 kilobyte of ROM and ~30
bytes of RAM!  If this is true, why couldn't a high-end PIC processor be
used in a similar application?

BTW, the application in the above article was simply to turn a red and
green LED on and off and to vary the intensity of the LEDs, remotely via
the WWW, of course.  The article does provide some interesting food for
thought, however, as to what could be done with a relatively cheap embedded
web server!

Any comments from any PIC gurus (or anybody else, for that matter) "out
there"?  I thought that this would be a terrific application for a PIC, if
the right software "development tools" were available.

Regards,
Gary Pepper

e-mail: spam_OUTgpepperTakeThisOuTspamcapitalnet.com

1998\01\29@165710 by WF AUTOMACAO

flavicon
face
Gary T. Pepper wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I have developted something like, but using as Front End, the Delphi accessing
the Winsock.dll.

Not for WEB, but is the beginner!

In february 98, my article will be avaliable the article on ELEKTOR CD. (I was
one of 10 winner
of ELEKTOR COMPETITION/97) :)))))))

Now, i'm developting a project for do Remote Experiments with PIC17C42!

See my page for what i already done for BASIC 52, FORTH 52 and Assembly 52!

If someone want a copy of Article, i can send!

Miguel Alexandre W.

1998\01\29@170111 by Andrew Mayo

flavicon
face
Well, essentially we're just using http as the protocol, which is just
simple ASCII, but of course an embedded Web server is expected to
support a range of communications protocols, and although simple RS-232
is one of them, and trivial to implement, what if you want to connect
this embedded Web server onto a LAN?. I think you need more smarts than
a PIC to handle the communications. If the PIC device needs a terminal
server to get data, it ain't much of an embedded device.

{Quote hidden}

1998\01\29@170518 by paulh

flavicon
face
On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Gary T. Pepper wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone has ever seen or developed an application where
> any PIC processor (I assume one of the higher performance devices) was used
> as the basis for an embedded web server?

See http://hogwild.hamjudo.com/cgi-bin/wave and
http://hogwild.hamjudo.com/cgi-bin/stamp

Both pages are sharing one basic stamp 1.  It's been running for a few
years.  There is a lot of code space left in the Stamp.

You don't need a high performance PIC for this, just about anything will
work.

--
paulhspamspam_OUThamjudo.com  http://www.hamjudo.com
The April 97 WebSight magazine describes me as "(presumably) normal".

1998\01\29@173323 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Gary T. Pepper <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone has ever seen or developed an application
> where any PIC processor (I assume one of the higher performance
> devices) was used as the basis for an embedded web server?

Gary:

Paul Haas (who -- hard as it may be to believe -- really IS pretty
normal) has done a PIC-based web-server with great success... Many
thousands of people have logged on to his refrigerator and hot tub,
and waved at his cat via their web browsers.

Paul's on the PICLIST; he'll undoubtedly reply personally.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdKILLspamspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1998\01\29@183945 by Ed Koffeman

picon face
>Paul Haas (who -- hard as it may be to believe -- really IS pretty
>normal) has done a PIC-based web-server with great success... Many

Isn't the actual server a Sun workstation, and the PICs just talk to the
serial port with raw data?

Ed Koffeman
Kinetra

1998\01\29@194612 by )

flavicon
face
Andy Warren wrote:


> Paul Haas (who -- hard as it may be to believe -- really IS pretty
> normal) has done a PIC-based web-server with great success... Many
> thousands of people have logged on to his refrigerator and hot tub,
> and waved at his cat via their web browsers.
>
> Paul's on the PICLIST; he'll undoubtedly reply personally.
>
Neat! But what's the address? I want to go take a look! I'm wondering if
this is this the site that at one time I stumbled across by accident
(and unfortunately didn't bookmark) called "Paul's Refrigerator"? At the
time (about 2 years ago) "Paul's Refrigerator" was listed as running on
a 386SX system with Linux. I was impressed then. On a PIC....incredible.

-Frank

1998\01\29@194834 by Gary T. Pepper

flavicon
face
At 05:44 PM 1/29/1998 -0600, you wrote:
>>Paul Haas (who -- hard as it may be to believe -- really IS pretty
>>normal) has done a PIC-based web-server with great success... Many
>
>Isn't the actual server a Sun workstation, and the PICs just talk to the
>serial port with raw data?
>
>Ed Koffeman
>Kinetra
>
>

Ed,

I'd say that you are correct!  I checked out Paul's WWW pages and it
indeed appears that the Sun workstation is the web-server and the PICs
just gather data.

Regards,
Gary Pepper

RemoveMEgpepperTakeThisOuTspamcapitalnet.com

1998\01\29@221727 by paulh

flavicon
face
On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Ed Koffeman wrote:

> >Paul Haas (who -- hard as it may be to believe -- really IS pretty
> >normal)

I try to hide it.

> > has done a PIC-based web-server with great success...

The hand and temperature on my desk use a Stamp 1, which has a PIC in it.

The hottub and refrigerator use 6811s (Shh, don't tell anyone, but the
refrigerator has been replaced, and I still haven't wired up the new one.
When I do, I'll use a PIC.  The hottub sensors are still mostly working
(The ozone from the ozone generator destroyed the light sensor, so the
system always thinks the ozone generator is broken.))

> Isn't the actual server a Sun workstation, and the PICs just talk to the
> serial port with raw data?

I replaced the Sun workstations a few years ago.  I've got a 386 and a
Pentium.  The Pentium handles a little over 10,000 hits per day.  The 386
has all the serial ports, so it actually talks to the embedded computers
on my desk and in the hottub.

My very first web server used to ignore the http request entirely and
always responded with current hottub statistics.  The software just
listened to TCP/IP port 80 on the Sun workstation.  It did what I
wanted it to do, back in the dark ages of 4 years ago.

If you make the assumption that the TCP/IP stack doesn't need to run on
the webserver, then it is easy to fit a webserver on a PIC. Parsing and
generating limited HTTP is very easy, the PIC can do enough to be usefull.

If you require that the entire TCP/IP stack be on the PIC for it to be a
real webserver, then things are very difficult.  If you just want your PIC
somehow serving information to the web and recieving information from the
web, then things are easy.

--
spamBeGonepaulhspamBeGonespamhamjudo.com  http://www.hamjudo.com
The April 97 WebSight magazine describes me as "(presumably) normal".

1998\01\30@095407 by John Hansen

picon face
At 10:59 AM 1/30/98 +1300, Andrew Mayo  wrote:
>Well, essentially we're just using http as the protocol, which is just
>simple ASCII, but of course an embedded Web server is expected to
>support a range of communications protocols, and although simple RS-232
>is one of them, and trivial to implement, what if you want to connect
>this embedded Web server onto a LAN?. I think you need more smarts than
>a PIC to handle the communications. If the PIC device needs a terminal
>server to get data, it ain't much of an embedded device.

Would the Motorola MC68160 with a MC68360 make the nut here?  This is what
the TAPR group is using as the ethernet interface for their spread spectrum
radio.  I have no idea what these chips cost, and the 68360 seems to be a
microprocessor itself, but if there was a two chip solution to this it
would make a very small embedded webserver.

I saw the article in the latest issue of Circuit Cellar, Inc, on this, but
I couldn't find any indication of how the communications were being
handled.  There was also a reference in that issue to a previous issue that
I don't have that discussed putting a tcp/ip stack in a PIC.  That article
might have had information on interfacing it.

John Hansen

1998\01\30@103042 by Martin R. Green

flavicon
face
All the articles I've seen in Circuit Cellar regarding embedded web
servers use embedded PC's, such as a PC/104 device, which is basically
a single board PC.  This makes the design much easier since actual PC
hardware and software can be adapted for the interface and TCP/IP
stack.  While it is not impossible, a PIC based embedded web server
would be significantly more effort.

CIAO - Martin.

On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:30:42 -0500, John Hansen <TakeThisOuThansenEraseMEspamspam_OUTFREDONIA.EDU>
wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Martin R. Green
RemoveMEelimarspamTakeThisOuTNOSPAMbigfoot.com

To reply, remove the NOSPAM from the return address.
Stamp out SPAM everywhere!!!

1998\01\30@112607 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
At 09:30 AM 1/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

The Motorola MC683xx series of chips are Communication Processors. They
basically consist of an MC68ECxxx core and a few communications
periphericals (such as serial ports, PCM highway controllers, and one model
has an ethernet interface), which, incidentally are not implemented in
hardware but are actually running on an internal RISC processor. The user
does not have access to the RISC processor's code memory (except by paying
motorola to burn your code in instead of theirs). As I understand it, they
are intended for just such embedded communications applications. At least
some of the chips in this series would have enough power to run a full
TCP/IP stack. Just remember, they are not like pics, they have a standard
68000 instruction set and require external ram and rom. I am not familiar
with the 68160, but I have written code for the 68302, the baseline model
of the 683xx series and I would be willing to answer questions via email if
anyone was considering starting a project based upon this chip.

Sean

+--------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                   |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM |
| Electrical Engineering Student |
+--------------------------------+
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
shb7EraseMEspam.....cornell.edu
Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315

1998\01\30@155923 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Would the Motorola MC68160 with a MC68360 make the nut here?  This is what
   the TAPR group is using as the ethernet interface for their spread spectrum
   radio.  I have no idea what these chips cost, and the 68360 seems to be a
   microprocessor itself, but if there was a two chip solution to this it
   would make a very small embedded webserver.

Yes, certainly.  In fact, we (cisco) sell a micro web-server that has
either a MC68360 (QUICC) or PowerQUICC (PowerPC core with similar
peripherals) with SCSI controller and ZIP drive (100MB ethernet web
server, about the size of of an external 5.25inch disk drive.)  We have
several full-fledged IP routers (with tcp stack and (I think) HTML
stack) based on the QUICC (cisco1000 series, and I think cisco1500
series, and some more based on the powerQUICC.)

Of course, we sell these things for much more than the cost of parts. :-)

A bare 68000 or 68010 with external network controllers made up the bulk
of internet "boxes" until not so long ago...

BillW
cisco

1998\01\30@232503 by Han

flavicon
face
----------
> From: WF AUTOMACAO <EraseMEwfspamAMBIENTE.COM.BR>
> To: RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: PIC embedded Web Server????
> Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 10:53 AM
>
>
> In february 98, my article will be avaliable the article on ELEKTOR CD.
(I was
>  one of 10 winner
> of ELEKTOR COMPETITION/97) :)))))))
>
> Now, i'm developting a project for do Remote Experiments with PIC17C42!
>
> See my page for what i already done for BASIC 52, FORTH 52 and Assembly
52!
>
> If someone want a copy of Article, i can send!
>
> Miguel Alexandre W.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
-------------Can you send me the article ????
i bought elector magazine from inelco (electronic parts supplier)
but now when Indonesia Rupiah falldown,its cost seven times the price
before
and that's  too exspensive to me


Han

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------


'PIC embedded Web Server - Tools'
1998\02\01@044328 by Chaipi Wijnbergen
flavicon
picon face
Hi,

A few weeks ago I was reading an article about :

"Tools And Protocols Link Embedded Systems Over The Internet", ELECTRONIC
DESIGN, August 18, 1997, pp 91-98.

It describes a few different tools/operating systems that would help in
the development of embedded web servers. The article does not mention a
specific microprocessor or microcontroller. It would be a good start for
someone that is interseted in this issue.

The article mentioned 5 companies :

1. emWare :                  http://www.emware.com
2. Integrated Systems Inc. : http://www.isi.com
3. Pipline :                 http://www.powerpage.com
4. Vadem :                   http://www.vadem.com
5. Wide River Systems :      http://www.wrs.com

Chaipi

                              \\\|///
                            \\  ~ ~  //
                             (  @ @  )
----------------------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo--------------------------------------
!                                                                             !
! Chaipi Wijnbergen                                                           !
! Electronics/Computer Eng. M.Sc.  Tel    : +972-8-9343079                    !
! Optical Imaging Laboratory       Fax    : +972-8-9344129                    !
! Brain Research Center            Email  : RemoveMEchaipispam_OUTspamKILLspamtohu0.weizmann.ac.il       !
! Weizmann Institute of Science    URL    : http://www.weizmann.ac.il/~chaipi !
! Rehovot 76100 ISRAEL             IPhone : chaipi                            !
!                                                                             !
------------------------------------Oooo.--------------------------------------
                         .oooO     (   )
                         (   )      ) /
                          \ (      (_/
                           \_)

'PIC embedded Web Server????'
1998\02\02@091200 by WF AUTOMACAO

flavicon
face
Han wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Did you receive very well?

Miguel.

1998\02\03@060920 by Marcos Migliorini

flavicon
face
I think your proyect is very intresting. Please could you send me a copy of
your article?

Mailto: RemoveMEmarcosmKILLspamspamsicoar.com.ar

----------
> De: WF AUTOMACAO <wfSTOPspamspamspam_OUTAMBIENTE.COM.BR>
> A: spamBeGonePICLISTSTOPspamspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Asunto: PIC embedded Web Server????
> Fecha: viernes 30 de enero de 1998 0:53
>
> Gary T. Pepper wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone has ever seen or developed an application
where
> > any PIC processor (I assume one of the higher performance devices) was
used
> > as the basis for an embedded web server?  You might find this question
a
> > bit surprising, however, I have recently read an article about an
embedded
> > web server designed around an 8051 CPU (see Circuit Cellar Ink, pp
60-64,
> > volume #88, Nov 1997).  In this article, the remote-server software
> > "engine" is said to typically consume just over 1 kilobyte of ROM and
~30
> > bytes of RAM!  If this is true, why couldn't a high-end PIC processor
be
> > used in a similar application?
> >
> > BTW, the application in the above article was simply to turn a red and
> > green LED on and off and to vary the intensity of the LEDs, remotely
via
> > the WWW, of course.  The article does provide some interesting food for
> > thought, however, as to what could be done with a relatively cheap
embedded
> > web server!
> >
> > Any comments from any PIC gurus (or anybody else, for that matter) "out
> > there"?  I thought that this would be a terrific application for a PIC,
if
> > the right software "development tools" were available.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Gary Pepper
> >
> > e-mail: KILLspamgpepperspamBeGonespamcapitalnet.com
>
> I have developted something like, but using as Front End, the Delphi
accessing
>  the Winsock.dll.
>
> Not for WEB, but is the beginner!
>
> In february 98, my article will be avaliable the article on ELEKTOR CD.
(I was
>  one of 10 winner
> of ELEKTOR COMPETITION/97) :)))))))
>
> Now, i'm developting a project for do Remote Experiments with PIC17C42!
>
> See my page for what i already done for BASIC 52, FORTH 52 and Assembly
52!
>
> If someone want a copy of Article, i can send!
>
> Miguel Alexandre W.


'[PICLIST] Embedded Web Server'
2000\11\10@152206 by bob_ml
picon face
Hi all,


Anybody know where I can find information about this matter (Embedded Web
Server)?


Roberto A. Dhios
RadeSys Embedded Systems
A D'Esposito 144 9-3
Ciudad de Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
email: EraseMErdhiosspamEraseMEradesys.com.ar
Tel: +54 (11) 4361-3466
Mobil: +54 (11) 15-4348-6660

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.




2000\11\10@154442 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
Bob Dhios wrote:

>Anybody know where I can find information about this matter (Embedded Web
>Server)?
>

I have a bunch of links to these things that might serve as a
place to start:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~oricom/emerge3.htm

regards,
- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
===================

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.




2000\11\10@172832 by Jinx

face picon face
> Anybody know where I can find information about this matter (Embedded
> Web Server)?
>
> Roberto A. Dhios

http://www.mycal.net/wsweb/design/

http://www.chat.ru/~zhengxi/about.htm

(found at http://www.piclist.com )

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.





'[PIC] Embedded web server with ENC28J60?'
2005\05\02@074620 by Kerrisnow
flavicon
face
I want to make an embeded webserver with the ENC28J60.
I downloaded the tcpip stack software from the microchip
site, and now I have these questions:

1. First of all, I do not know which C compiler to use, is there
a free one on the microchip site?

2. I downloaded the tcpip software, and I see that there are three files
called

18c452.lkr
18f452.lkr
18f8720.lkr

Does this mean that this software will run on those chips as-is with
no editing, and would these devices interface to the ENC28J60?

3. How do I link my web pages to the device?

4. Do I need to know anything else regarding the software side of
things?

5. Lastly, do you think this software will be available on 18f2455?

tnx

2005\05\02@081047 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:

>I want to make an embeded webserver with the ENC28J60.
>I downloaded the tcpip stack software from the microchip
>site, and now I have these questions:
>
>1. First of all, I do not know which C compiler to use, is there
>a free one on the microchip site?
>  
>

You can use the MPLAB C18.  <http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en010014&part=SW006011>

{Quote hidden}

Yes but you have to write your own mac driver for the ENC28J60 (look at mac.c). Eventually Microchip will supply this I guess....

>3. How do I link my web pages to the device?
>  
>
Use an EEPROM to store them. All docs is in the TCP/IP appnote.

>4. Do I need to know anything else regarding the software side of
>things?
>
>5. Lastly, do you think this software will be available on 18f2455?
>
>tnx
>  
>

It works on all 18F's as long as you have the memory. I have the stack with TCP/IP, http running on a 18F6621 and togehter with tha application it  it use abaout half of the flash (32K).

/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\02@082746 by olin_piclist

face picon face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:
> I want to make an embeded webserver with the ENC28J60.
> I downloaded the tcpip stack software from the microchip
> site, and now I have these questions:
>
> 1. First of all, I do not know which C compiler to use, is there
> a free one on the microchip site?

I believe it uses the C18 compiler, doesn't it say so in the source code or
in AN833?

> Does this mean that this software will run on those chips as-is with
> no editing, and would these devices interface to the ENC28J60?

The AN833 TCP/IP stack with the ENC28J60 additions assumes a PIC 18 with the
ENC28J60 connected to via the MSSP using SPI.

> 3. How do I link my web pages to the device?

I haven't done this, but I have read AN833 and seen that it goes into detail
on this.

> 4. Do I need to know anything else regarding the software side of
> things?

RTFM, which in this case is AN833.  Looking thru the header files and some
of the source code is also a good idea.  In particular you will need to
modify STACKTSK.H to suite your configuration.

> 5. Lastly, do you think this software will be available on 18f2455?

I assume it runs on that PIC with little or no modification.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\05\02@083601 by olin_piclist

face picon face
Ake Hedman wrote:
> Yes but you have to write your own mac driver for the ENC28J60 (look at
> mac.c). Eventually Microchip will supply this I guess....

They have.  I've had it since November and have ported it to the dsPIC.  If
it's not release as an app note yet, talk to your local FAE.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\05\02@084511 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

> @spam@kerrisnow@spam@spamspam_OUTbtinternet.com wrote:
>
>> I want to make an embeded webserver with the ENC28J60.
>> I downloaded the tcpip stack software from the microchip
>> site, and now I have these questions:
>>
>> 1. First of all, I do not know which C compiler to use, is there
>> a free one on the microchip site?
>
>
> I believe it uses the C18 compiler, doesn't it say so in the source
> code or
> in AN833?
>
Also can use Hitech C.

>The AN833 TCP/IP stack with the ENC28J60 additions assumes a PIC 18 with the
>ENC28J60 connected to via the MSSP using SPI.

Has this been added to the appnote code already?  I was not aware of that.

/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\02@094057 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

>  
> They have.  I've had it since November and have ported it to the
> dsPIC.  If
> it's not release as an app note yet, talk to your local FAE.
>
That is good news (I'm not that surprised ;-) ).  I have been promised some chips this week and  hope I can get my hands on the  mac i/f code so I don't have to write it from scratch.

Cheers
/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

'[PIC] Need help with embedded web server'
2005\05\02@201414 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face
Here is my plan:

I would like to use the pic18f2455 to create a web server. I am not
going to use ethernet or eeprom. I will connect it to my pc
with the serial cable. The other end of the cable will connect to the
serial port of the pic. The pc will connect to the pic with slip for the
web server and with hyperterminal instead of the lcd of picdem.net.
Does this sound o.k.?

2. In compiler.h I find
#define CLOCK_FREQ                      (20000000)      // Hz
As I am planning on using the internal oscillator of the pic, which is
6mhz, do I need to change this value? and if so is clock frequency
the same as the oscillator frequency?

3. Do I need to change
TICKS_PER_SECOND and
TICK_PRESCALE_VALUE
and if so how do I know what these values should be?

4. I have identified that I need to use the project file mpslpg.pjt
because it has the slip, internal web pages (no eeprom) and the
web server, but how do I use this file? I downloaded the C
compiler and I couldn't find any gui environment?

tia

2005\05\03@025321 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote :

> Here is my plan:
>
> I would like to use the pic18f2455 to create a web server.

I can't see that you mention USB anyware in your post.
Any special reason you are using an USB device ?

> I am not
> going to use ethernet or eeprom. I will connect it to my pc
> with the serial cable. The other end of the cable will connect to the
> serial port of the pic. The pc will connect to the pic with
> slip for the
> web server and with hyperterminal instead of the lcd of picdem.net.
> Does this sound o.k.?

Maybe, depends on what your goals are...

>
> 2. In compiler.h I find
> #define CLOCK_FREQ                      (20000000)      // Hz
> As I am planning on using the internal oscillator of the pic, which is
> 6mhz,...

Where is that "6 Mhz intosc" ? I can not find it in the data sheet.
And since you are going to use the serial interface, why not
just hook up a standard crystal (for better precision) ?

Jan-Erik.



2005\05\03@031052 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:

>Here is my plan:
>
>I would like to use the pic18f2455 to create a web server. I am not
>going to use ethernet or eeprom. I will connect it to my pc
>with the serial cable. The other end of the cable will connect to the
>serial port of the pic. The pc will connect to the pic with slip for the
>web server and with hyperterminal instead of the lcd of picdem.net.
>Does this sound o.k.?
>  
>
Sounds OK!  But Slip is not fun IMHO. For a jump start check http://www.modtronix.com   (not affiliated other then a happy customer).

>2/3
You have all that info in the appnote.

>
>
>4. I have identified that I need to use the project file mpslpg.pjt
>because it has the slip, internal web pages (no eeprom) and the
>web server, but how do I use this file? I downloaded the C
>compiler and I couldn't find any gui environment?
>
>  
>
First install MPLAP, then install  the compiler and then MPLAB environment will be your gui. Of course you also can use any editor and a makefile if you which.


/Ake



--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\03@044001 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On May 3, 2005, at 12:10 AM, Ake Hedman wrote:

>  But Slip is not fun IMHO.

It is very certainly MUCH easier than the alternative async internet
comm protocol (PPP)!!!

BillW

2005\05\03@045236 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
William Chops Westfield wrote:

> On May 3, 2005, at 12:10 AM, Ake Hedman wrote:
>
>>  But Slip is not fun IMHO.
>
>
> It is very certainly MUCH easier than the alternative async internet
> comm protocol (PPP)!!!
>
> BillW

Agree and that is **MUCH**...  PPP is a s close to hell on earth one can come. ;-)

/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\03@050336 by liam .

picon face
I did some research into this recently and found a few sites that may
be interesting reading for you.

http://d116.com/ace/
Very Small webserver, uses SLIP for comunications.

http://www-ccs.cs.umass.edu/~shri/iPic.html
Another small webserver, uses a PIC 12C509A and SLIP

http://www.janw.easynet.be/pic18f452-e.html
Uses a PIC 18F452 and talks to a real ethernet network via ISA network card.

http://picnic.sourceforge.net/
Open source project for connecting PICs to ISA network cards.

http://mspgcc.sourceforge.net/

I never got beyond the research phase, time got away from me but I
plan to return to the idea soon....


Hope this can be helpful.

Liam

2005\05\03@054958 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I did some research into this recently and found a few sites that may
> be interesting reading for you.

don't forget http://sourceforge.net/projects/jalethernet/ !

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\05\03@060734 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face
> > Here is my plan:
> >
> > I would like to use the pic18f2455 to create a web server.
>
> I can't see that you mention USB anyware in your post.
> Any special reason you are using an USB device ?
No special reason apart from the fact that I do posses one of those.
The usb functionality will not be used, it wouldn't hurt would it?
>
> > I am not
> > going to use ethernet or eeprom. I will connect it to my pc
> > with the serial cable. The other end of the cable will connect to the
> > serial port of the pic. The pc will connect to the pic with
> > slip for the
> > web server and with hyperterminal instead of the lcd of picdem.net.
> > Does this sound o.k.?
>
> Maybe, depends on what your goals are...
The goals are to satisfy myself that I can do this simplistic task, then I
will start thinking of adding ethernet, but first I want to know I can
configure a pic correctly, so slip is the least complicated way in terms
of hardware.
>
> >
> > 2. In compiler.h I find
> > #define CLOCK_FREQ                      (20000000)      // Hz
> > As I am planning on using the internal oscillator of the pic, which is
> > 6mhz,...
>
> Where is that "6 Mhz intosc" ? I can not find it in the data sheet.
> And since you are going to use the serial interface, why not
> just hook up a standard crystal (for better precision) ?
I just checked in the datasheet, it is 8mhz. Would that be ok?
I don't want to complicate my hardware unnecessarily at this
stage, as this is an excercise, not a real project, so I would
prefere not to have to worry about crystals unless it is absolutely
necessary.

tia

2005\05\03@062703 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

I seem to have missed many replies, which I have suddenly found, so
first of all, thanks. I did install the C compiler (student/demo) after
mplab 7.10, but it seems that I cannot open pjt files, i.e. they do open
as a text file, but no project is opened
{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\05\03@062839 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote :

> > > I would like to use the pic18f2455 to create a web server.
> >
> > I can't see that you mention USB anyware in your post.
> > Any special reason you are using an USB device ?
>
> No special reason apart from the fact that I do posses one of those.
> The usb functionality will not be used, it wouldn't hurt would it?

I just expected that, becuse of the quite high complexity of the
USB periperial, there was some added configurations to do,
even if the USB interface wasn't used.
Maybe not...

> > Where is that "6 Mhz intosc" ? I can not find it in the data sheet.
> > And since you are going to use the serial interface, why not
> > just hook up a standard crystal (for better precision) ?

> I just checked in the datasheet, it is 8mhz. Would that be ok?

No idea.

> I don't want to complicate my hardware unnecessarily at this
> stage, as this is an excercise, not a real project, so I would
> prefere not to have to worry about crystals unless it is absolutely
> necessary.

OK, I was just trying to point out that if you plan to use serial
(USART) communication, you must have a reasonable stable
clock source.

Jan-Erik.



2005\05\03@065854 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
>I seem to have missed many replies, which I have suddenly found, so

This is happening to me also at the moment. Dates are jumping around a lot. Not fun if you soirt by date.  Is  everything OK for everyone else?

>first of all, thanks. I did install the C compiler (student/demo) after
>mplab 7.10, but it seems that I cannot open pjt files, i.e. they do open
>as a text file, but no project is opened

Do uou open the file from the project menu?

/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\03@072238 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 01:13:53AM +0100, spamBeGonekerrisnowspamKILLspambtinternet.com wrote:
> Here is my plan:

Sorry I'm late to the party.

>
> I would like to use the pic18f2455 to create a web server. I am not
> going to use ethernet or eeprom. I will connect it to my pc
> with the serial cable. The other end of the cable will connect to the
> serial port of the pic. The pc will connect to the pic with slip for the
> web server and with hyperterminal instead of the lcd of picdem.net.
> Does this sound o.k.?

This topic rolls in about twice a year. I always ask the same question
when I see this setup: Why a web server?

I always ask the question because with the physical interface you specify
(serial/SLIP) there's no way to build a box that can connect to the
Internet without a gateway. Now that's OK, but I always question the
utility of shoving an entire HTTP/TCP/IP/SLIP stack onto the PIC.

The question is also generated based on objective. My objective when I
was looking at the problem was threefold:

1) Leverage as much of the TCP/IP standard, which has tons of written and
tested code, as I could.

2) Have the potential for true Internet connectivity.

3) Keep new code/stack on the PIC as small as possible.

This lead me to a UDP/IP/SLIP stack with a PC SLIP gateway. It's a project
that I put a couple of students on years ago, but never got completely
fleshed out.

The one downside with my approach is that you do have to have custom
software on the PC to receive and process packets. But I always looked at
it as having a big, easy to program PC, as opposed to as a more constrained
PIC to work on. Also there are standard programs that can interface with
UDP ports. netcat for example can be found here:

http://www.securityfocus.com/tools/137

With a tutorial here:

http://m.nu/program/util/netcat/netcat.html

As a linux guy a 5 second Google found this article for a framework for
UDP applications:

http://www.linuxgazette.com/node/8758

As standard socket code, it should port easily.

But again it depends of the objective. I wasn't looking at the Kewl factor
of having a webserver on a PIC. It may be a worthy goal if we're talking
Ethernet or PPP which can connect to the network standalone. But with SLIP
which virtually requires a gateway, UDP seems to be the ticket for
delivering content around the network with a PIC.

BTW hyperterminal isn't going to get you where you want to go. You need to
create a SLIP connection in your dialup networking, and use that to connect.

Just some thoughts.

BAJ

2005\05\03@073344 by olin_piclist

face picon face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:
> I would like to use the pic18f2455 to create a web server. I am not
> going to use ethernet or eeprom. I will connect it to my pc
> with the serial cable. The other end of the cable will connect to the
> serial port of the pic. The pc will connect to the pic with slip for the
> web server and with hyperterminal instead of the lcd of picdem.net.
> Does this sound o.k.?

Not really.  What is going accross the serial line, SLIP or the characters
for hyperterminal?  You only get to pick one.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\05\03@083125 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

> .....kerrisnowspam_OUTspambtinternet.com wrote:
>
>> I would like to use the pic18f2455 to create a web server. I am not
>> going to use ethernet or eeprom. I will connect it to my pc
>> with the serial cable. The other end of the cable will connect to the
>> serial port of the pic. The pc will connect to the pic with slip for the
>> web server and with hyperterminal instead of the lcd of picdem.net.
>> Does this sound o.k.?
>
>
> Not really.  What is going accross the serial line, SLIP or the
> characters
> for hyperterminal?  You only get to pick one.
>
But you can go use SLIP through winsock on hyperterminal. Of course you need some RFC-822 compliant on the other side.

/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\03@084039 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ake Hedman" <TakeThisOuTakhe.....spamTakeThisOuTeurosource.se>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <TakeThisOuTpiclistKILLspamspamspammit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC] Need help with embedded web server


> >I seem to have missed many replies, which I have suddenly found, so
>
> This is happening to me also at the moment. Dates are jumping around a
> lot. Not fun if you soirt by date.  Is  everything OK for everyone else?
>
> >first of all, thanks. I did install the C compiler (student/demo) after
> >mplab 7.10, but it seems that I cannot open pjt files, i.e. they do open
> >as a text file, but no project is opened
>
> Do uou open the file from the project menu?
I see what you mean, it seems mplab only lists mcw files. It also
appears as though MPSlPG.pjt doesn't have an mcw counterpart.
{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\05\03@084320 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face

----- Original Message -----
From: "Byron A Jeff" <.....byronspamRemoveMEcc.gatech.edu>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <RemoveMEpiclistspamspamBeGonemit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC] Need help with embedded web server


{Quote hidden}

constrained
{Quote hidden}

connect.
Yes, that's because SLIP is going to occupy com1, preventing hyper terminal
from opening it.
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> BAJ
> --

2005\05\03@084810 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face

----- Original Message -----
From: "Olin Lathrop" <TakeThisOuTolin_piclistspamspamembedinc.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistEraseMEspammit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC] Need help with embedded web server


> RemoveMEkerrisnowEraseMEspamspam_OUTbtinternet.com wrote:
> > I would like to use the pic18f2455 to create a web server. I am not
> > going to use ethernet or eeprom. I will connect it to my pc
> > with the serial cable. The other end of the cable will connect to the
> > serial port of the pic. The pc will connect to the pic with slip for the
> > web server and with hyperterminal instead of the lcd of picdem.net.
> > Does this sound o.k.?
>
> Not really.  What is going accross the serial line, SLIP or the characters
> for hyperterminal?  You only get to pick one.
Yes, I will have to give up on hyperterminal, which is o.k. because getting
web pages from slip is a good enough indication if it is working or not.
>
>
> *****************************************************************
> Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
> (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com
> --

2005\05\03@084810 by olin_piclist

face picon face
Ake Hedman wrote:
> But you can go use SLIP through winsock on hyperterminal. Of course you
> need some RFC-822 compliant on the other side.

I haven't checked, but my recollection is that RFC 822 defines header
commands of SMTP email messages, with SMTP itself is defined in RFC 821.

In any case, I got the impression that the OP meant that Hyperterm would be
connected directly to the serial line, which of course would make it
impossible to run SLIP over that same line.  Something still isn't right or
we're missing some information.

The OP also said he wanted to implement SLIP because it would be easier than
TCP.  I disagree with this.  Hook the PIC to a ENC28J60 and use the AN833
TCP/IP stack from Microchip with the ENC28J60 specific MAC module.  This
should be about the same amount of work on the PIC end, and a lot less
hassle on the PC end.  Now you've got a server that doesn't need the PC in
the loop.

If the PC is in the loop, then why bother with TCP on the PIC at all?
Communicate any data with the PC using a simple binary protocol over the
serial line, and have the PC serve the web pages.

Something doesn't add up here.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\05\03@085125 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
Byron A Jeff wrote:

>This topic rolls in about twice a year. I always ask the same question
>when I see this setup: Why a web server?

I agree completely on this. I can understand why it can be perfect with a web server for such things as a router or a copier machine. But for most other stuff it would just be a lot of overhead. It is good as the user already have the interface tools and know the comcept of links and pages.

<personal-stuff-warning>
This is also why our Very Simple Control Protocol (http://www.vscp.org) has been  developed  Here we standardize on events (can be UDP datagrams), registers (just as IC's have) and decision matrices.

- A node can be configured by using a very simple set of register read/write commands.
- A node can give "information" to other devices by well specified events.
-  Decision Matrix entries can be added on a node that support them to let the node handle events automatically (Event - Decision - Action).

This works over differnet low level protocols. CAN, UDP, RS-232, RS-485/422, USB etc.

It's stupid and *very* simple but a fun way to make tiny little things work together.....
</personal-stuff-warning>

/Ake

{Quote hidden}

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\03@085456 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:

> I see what you mean, it seems mplab only lists mcw files. It also
> appears as though MPSlPG.pjt doesn't have an mcw counterpart.

Don't you have the "HtTFTPcDemo.mcw"

/Ake


--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\03@090121 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 08:48:32AM -0400, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> If the PC is in the loop, then why bother with TCP on the PIC at all?
> Communicate any data with the PC using a simple binary protocol over the
> serial line, and have the PC serve the web pages.
>
> Something doesn't add up here.

I used to waver back and forth on this point. But I realized that by using
the standard TCP/IP infrastructure that I could get a well tested stack
on the PC side for no cost. So instead of having to write and test for
both ends (even if it's simple) I would focus on the PIC. In short if
I needed to pick a simple binary protocol, then why not pick UDP/IP/SLIP?

I had always been thinking of this along a multidrop sensor situation. So
with EIA-485 and a simple UDP/IP/SLIP stack you can ring up a bunch of
nodes. Of course there's still the contention issue, but that's another story.

BAJ

2005\05\03@092425 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face
>
>  > I see what you mean, it seems mplab only lists mcw files. It also
>  > appears as though MPSlPG.pjt doesn't have an mcw counterpart.
>
> Don't you have the "HtTFTPcDemo.mcw"
You probably mean MpTFTPcDemo.map, yes I do have that, but
AN833 p5 talks about MPSlPG.pjt, I guess it's the same.
{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\05\03@093218 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

> Ake Hedman wrote:
>
>> But you can go use SLIP through winsock on hyperterminal. Of course you
>> need some RFC-822 compliant on the other side.
>
>
> I haven't checked, but my recollection is that RFC 822 defines header
> commands of SMTP email messages, with SMTP itself is defined in RFC 821.
>
Oops! You are right. Never trust your (my!) memory... :-(  What I was aiming is was the RFC that SMTP, POP, TELNET, HTTP etc falls back on.  Sorry for that.

> The OP also said he wanted to implement SLIP because it would be
> easier than
> TCP.  I disagree with this.  Hook the PIC to a ENC28J60 and use the AN833
> TCP/IP stack from Microchip with the ENC28J60 specific MAC module.  This
> should be about the same amount of work on the PIC end, and a lot less
> hassle on the PC end.  Now you've got a server that doesn't need the
> PC in
> the loop.
>
Agree!  But before the ENC28J60 this has been a lot more work. The Reltek RTL8019 for instance and similar is not nice to work with on the component level for a hobbyist.  The packages available for the ENC28J60 change this in a big way.

> If the PC is in the loop, then why bother with TCP on the PIC at all?
> Communicate any data with the PC using a simple binary protocol over the
> serial line, and have the PC serve the web pages.
>
> Something doesn't add up here.
>
Agree here as well.

/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\03@093500 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face

----- Original Message -----
From: "Olin Lathrop" <EraseMEolin_piclistspam@spam@embedinc.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <@spam@piclistspam_OUTspam.....mit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC] Need help with embedded web server


> Ake Hedman wrote:
> > But you can go use SLIP through winsock on hyperterminal. Of course you
> > need some RFC-822 compliant on the other side.
>
> I haven't checked, but my recollection is that RFC 822 defines header
> commands of SMTP email messages, with SMTP itself is defined in RFC 821.
>
> In any case, I got the impression that the OP meant that Hyperterm would
be
> connected directly to the serial line, which of course would make it
> impossible to run SLIP over that same line.  Something still isn't right
or
> we're missing some information.
>
> The OP also said he wanted to implement SLIP because it would be easier
than
> TCP.  I disagree with this.  Hook the PIC to a ENC28J60 and use the AN833
> TCP/IP stack from Microchip with the ENC28J60 specific MAC module.  This

My idea was to go from the easy to the difficult in terms of
hardware, but really the problem with the ENC28J60 as far as I understood
from people in this group is that one needs to write the MAC software, which
I haven't a clue how to do, or is it available now?

{Quote hidden}

> --

2005\05\03@094429 by olin_piclist

face picon face
Byron A Jeff wrote:
> In short if
> I needed to pick a simple binary protocol, then why not pick
> UDP/IP/SLIP?

Because it's not that simple.  Even if you use static IP and stick to UDP,
you still have at least an order of magnitude more code than required for a
lightweight binary protocol via UART that is designed for that purpose.

> I had always been thinking of this along a multidrop sensor situation.
> So with EIA-485 and a simple UDP/IP/SLIP stack you can ring up a bunch
> of
> nodes. Of course there's still the contention issue, but that's another
> story.

I think today's answer to this is CAN.  It does handle the contention issue
in hardware, and CAN modules come integrated into many microcontrollers now,
including a bunch of 18F and 30F PICs.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\05\03@094951 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:

>My idea was to go from the easy to the difficult in terms of
>hardware, but really the problem with the ENC28J60 as far as I understood
>from people in this group is that one needs to write the MAC software, which
>I haven't a clue how to do, or is it available now?

Not for us "common" people but will be very soon now I hope. Olin got is though (Since November 2004... hmm...). ;-)

Cheers
/Ake


>{Original Message removed}

2005\05\03@101002 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

>I think today's answer to this is CAN.  It does handle the contention issue
>in hardware, and CAN modules come integrated into many microcontrollers now,
>including a bunch of 18F and 30F PICs.

This is very true as long as you cook your own HLP protocol.  CanOpen for instance is *big* and complicated, and even more so then TCP/IP. DeciceNet is a little better. CanKingdom  is open but also rather complicated.
Personally I hate when the protocol stack takes up most of the flash. And this is true for most CAN HLP's today.

/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\03@103631 by olin_piclist

face picon face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:
> but really the problem with the ENC28J60 as far as I
> understood from people in this group is that one needs to write the MAC
> software, which I haven't a clue how to do, or is it available now?

Maybe it's not officially released yet in an app note, but it certainly
exists.  The ENC28J60 chips aren't officially released either yet, although
supposedly very close.  You will have to go thru your local FAE to get one
for now, at which time you can also get the new MAC module.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\05\03@105610 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face
> >> But you can go use SLIP through winsock on hyperterminal. Of course you
> >> need some RFC-822 compliant on the other side.
> >
> >
> > I haven't checked, but my recollection is that RFC 822 defines header
> > commands of SMTP email messages, with SMTP itself is defined in RFC 821.
> >
> Oops! You are right. Never trust your (my!) memory... :-(  What I was
> aiming is was the RFC that SMTP, POP, TELNET, HTTP etc falls back on.
> Sorry for that.
>
> > The OP also said he wanted to implement SLIP because it would be
> > easier than
> > TCP.  I disagree with this.  Hook the PIC to a ENC28J60 and use the
AN833
{Quote hidden}

Why is the PC in a loop? To recap, I will be loading the stack software
an833
onto an 18f pic, mine happens to be an 18f2455, connect the usart to com1,
make a slip connection on win2000, and hope to see some webpages.
Any last minute thoughts?

{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\05\03@114833 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:

>Any last minute thoughts?
If you want a PIC based web server its makes perfect sense IMHO for whatever reason. Another question is if a web server on all available devices is the solution to all problems. I don't think so   Counting all web servers that pop up on low end devices others seams to think so. But that is generally speaking  I also have some web servers running on tiny devices just for the fun of it.... ;-)

/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\03@120327 by olin_piclist

face picon face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:
> Why is the PC in a loop?
> ...
> make a slip connection on win2000,

Because that's what it appears you are saying.  The PC is "in the loop"
since if you powered it down it the system wouldn't work.  In this case the
PC is acting as a router and ethernet-to-SLIP adapter.

My point was why not connect the PIC directly to the ethernet since this
removes any dependence on the PC and would be easier to accomplish (in my
opinion)?


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\05\03@140622 by Peter

picon face

On Tue, 3 May 2005, Ake Hedman wrote:

> Agree and that is **MUCH**...  PPP is a s close to hell on earth one can
> come. ;-)

PPP is not so bad if it does not need to negotiate async maps and IPs
and other options. Start both ends with fixed IP and it will work
relatively smoothly (you only need a subset of the protocol).

Peter

2005\05\03@144145 by Charles Craft

picon face
TCP/IP Partner Solution Footprint
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/partnerfootprint.pdf

MicroChip used to ship this dev boards or flash packs.
EMIT from emWare:
http://www.emware.com/index.html


What magnetics are people using with the ENC28J60 ?
The controller spec sheet gives specs for the interface but no recommended part numbers (that I could see).
Tried to find them on DigiKey and didn't come up with anything useful.
The one used on the picdem.net board is available from Mouser - FL1012.

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\03@160035 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
Peter wrote:

>
> On Tue, 3 May 2005, Ake Hedman wrote:
>
>> Agree and that is **MUCH**...  PPP is a s close to hell on earth one
>> can come. ;-)
>
>
> PPP is not so bad if it does not need to negotiate async maps and IPs
> and other options. Start both ends with fixed IP and it will work
> relatively smoothly (you only need a subset of the protocol).
>
> Peter

Programmed it once for a client on MS-DOS. Not the most amusing thing I ever done.

/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\03@170247 by olin_piclist

face picon face
Charles Craft wrote:
> What magnetics are people using with the ENC28J60 ?

I'm using Pulse Engineering H2019.

*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\05\03@182034 by Charles Craft

picon face
Looks like Mouser carries that one.

Are you using Power over Ethernet for your product or just happened to pick that unit?

Thanks!

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\03@183910 by olin_piclist

face picon face
Charles Craft wrote:
> Are you using Power over Ethernet for your product or just happened
> to pick that unit?

Yes, power over ethernet is an option.  About the only difference is that
without power over ethernet the center taps on the network side aren't
required.  The ENC28J60 requires center taps on its side.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

'[PIC] Need help with embedded web server, another '
2005\05\03@203135 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face
In AN833 page3 we have

CLOCK_FREQ
TICKS_PER_SEC
TICK_PRESCALE

Can someone help me to choose vaues for them. My internal clock is 8mhz,
and my slip will be 19200.

tia

2005\05\03@233442 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On May 3, 2005, at 11:06 AM, Peter wrote:

> (you only need a subset of the protocol).
>
This is theoretically true.  OTOH, I wonder how well it works in
practice; if you
don't negotiate the way windows or macos does, things may not talk to
you...

> it does not need to negotiate async maps
>
Async maps are a good idea, though.  Without negotiating them, you'll
send every
byte less than 32 as two bytes, decreasing throughput rather a lot...

BillW

2005\05\04@071736 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>>I seem to have missed many replies, which I have suddenly found, so
>
>This is happening to me also at the moment. Dates are jumping around a
>lot. Not fun if you soirt by date.  Is  everything OK for everyone else?

It has been happening to me for ages. I have been blaming our local mail
servers which seem to crash with monotonous regularity. Every so often the
virus checker file on the gateway seems to corrupt - over a weekend is
good - and I can be getting emails 2 and 3 days old in batches as it does
its thing with them before release them into the inner sanctums of our
readers.

2005\05\04@072812 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face
Two more questions:

How does the sample server in AN833 change without the picdem board
and also, CLOCK_FREQ = 20,000,000 do I need to change this to fit
my internal oscillator or does it sort itself out?
Lastly, where do I define the Defines, for example, to choose tcp I need to
define STACK_USE_TCP, but where do I define this?

thanks
tim.

2005\05\04@073441 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
Alan B. Pearce wrote:

>>>I seem to have missed many replies, which I have suddenly found, so
>>>      
>>>
>>This is happening to me also at the moment. Dates are jumping around a
>>lot. Not fun if you soirt by date.  Is  everything OK for everyone else?
>>    
>>
>
>It has been happening to me for ages. I have been blaming our local mail
>servers which seem to crash with monotonous regularity. Every so often the
>virus checker file on the gateway seems to corrupt - over a weekend is
>good - and I can be getting emails 2 and 3 days old in batches as it does
>its thing with them before release them into the inner sanctums of our
>readers.
>
>  
>
I have my own mail server and  just a local virus protection (on the client computer).  So it must be something external. Yesterday there  was no mail from the piclist to my server for almost two hours and then suddenly a lot of them was delivered in a batch. I have seen that today also but for shorter times. I tried to send some mails from my gmail account during the same time to test my server and they where delivered in a few seconds. Oh well can live with it.

/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\04@074108 by olin_piclist

face picon face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:
> How does the sample server in AN833 change without the picdem board
> and also, CLOCK_FREQ = 20,000,000 do I need to change this to fit
> my internal oscillator or does it sort itself out?
> Lastly, where do I define the Defines, for example, to choose tcp I
> need to define STACK_USE_TCP, but where do I define this?

As I said before, you have to actually *read* the text, and looking thru the
H files isn't a bad idea either.  I don't remember the details off the top
of my head, and I'm not in that office right now, but I don't remember
having any trouble figuring this stuff out from the available documentation.
In other words, RTFM.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\05\04@074113 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:

>Two more questions:
>
>How does the sample server in AN833 change without the picdem board
>and also, CLOCK_FREQ = 20,000,000 do I need to change this to fit
>my internal oscillator or does it sort itself out?
>Lastly, where do I define the Defines, for example, to choose tcp I need to
>define STACK_USE_TCP, but where do I define this?
>
>thanks
>tim.
>  
>
Modtronix have the Microchip stack but have changed a few thing such as having all configuration data in one file.
Its available here http://total-telematics.com/shop/products/mt/websrvr65_v202.zip

CLOCK_FREQ should be the actual frequency.


/Ake

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\04@074153 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Mail delivery from the list server has been like this since
the list move to another server sometimes last year.
Delivery times varies a lot more since then then before.
And also out-of-order posts has been more frequent.
Jan-Erik.



{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\05\04@075801 by Ake Hedman

flavicon
face
So it just took a year for me to notice it then you mean... ;-)

/Ake

Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:

>Mail delivery from the list server has been like this since
>the list move to another server sometimes last year.
>Delivery times varies a lot more since then then before.
>And also out-of-order posts has been more frequent.
>Jan-Erik.
>
>  
>

--  ---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergavägen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se      Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org

2005\05\04@075819 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face
> spamBeGonekerrisnowEraseMEspambtinternet.com wrote:
> > How does the sample server in AN833 change without the picdem board
> > and also, CLOCK_FREQ = 20,000,000 do I need to change this to fit
> > my internal oscillator or does it sort itself out?
> > Lastly, where do I define the Defines, for example, to choose tcp I
> > need to define STACK_USE_TCP, but where do I define this?
>
> As I said before, you have to actually *read* the text, and looking thru
the
> H files isn't a bad idea either.  I don't remember the details off the top
> of my head, and I'm not in that office right now, but I don't remember
> having any trouble figuring this stuff out from the available
documentation.
> In other words, RTFM.

I did read this, unfortunately it assumes people know where to put defines,
probably due to the fact that it is a compiler issue rather than a stack
issue.
Trust me, the manual does'nt answer what I have posted. Reading the
source files is an option for sure, I never disagreed with that.

thnx
tim.

2005\05\04@080002 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face
> >How does the sample server in AN833 change without the picdem board
> >and also, CLOCK_FREQ = 20,000,000 do I need to change this to fit
> >my internal oscillator or does it sort itself out?
> >Lastly, where do I define the Defines, for example, to choose tcp I need
to
{Quote hidden}

When you say actual frequency, what do you mean by "actual" ?

thnx
tim.

2005\05\04@081323 by Mauricio Jancic

flavicon
face
> In AN833 page3 we have
>
> CLOCK_FREQ
> TICKS_PER_SEC
> TICK_PRESCALE
>
> Can someone help me to choose vaues for them. My internal
> clock is 8mhz, and my slip will be 19200.

Hi,
       I'm going to be rude, but: You MUST read and interpret the
datasheet. In the same page that you are quoting, in the "Purpose" column
it's the answer for your question.

       Then, look ALL the files ( the *.H and *.C) and there you will also
find valuable information.

       At the begging of this thread you mention that you wanted to do a
simple project to test your understanding. I think this is not the right
project. It might be easy to put in a MCU and make it work, but when it
doesn't work it becomes very hard to solve if this is your first project.

       I would suggest to start with a blinking led, a keyboard or stuff
like that. I would also suggest that you write your own code before you
start dealing with complex projects... That will really test your skills.

       Best regards,

Mauricio Jancic
Janso Desarrollos - Microchip Consultants Program Member
infospamBeGonespamjanso.com.ar
http://www.janso.com.ar
(54) 11 - 4542 - 3519

2005\05\04@081740 by Mauricio Jancic

flavicon
face
RTFM

As the App note says, CLOCK_FREQ Define SYSTEM OSCILATOR FREQUENCY to
determine tick counter value


Mauricio Jancic
Janso Desarrollos - Microchip Consultants Program Member
RemoveMEinfo@spam@spamspamBeGonejanso.com.ar
http://www.janso.com.ar
(54) 11 - 4542 - 3519


> {Original Message removed}

2005\05\04@090558 by Charles Craft

picon face
Amen.
Well said.

(and it wasn't rude, just the facts mam)

-----Original Message-----
From: Mauricio Jancic <.....info@spam@spamEraseMEjanso.com.ar>
Sent: May 4, 2005 8:13 AM
To: "'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'" <.....piclistRemoveMEspammit.edu>
Subject: RE: [PIC] Need help with embedded web server, another question

> In AN833 page3 we have
>
> CLOCK_FREQ
> TICKS_PER_SEC
> TICK_PRESCALE
>
> Can someone help me to choose vaues for them. My internal
> clock is 8mhz, and my slip will be 19200.

Hi,
       I'm going to be rude, but: You MUST read and interpret the
datasheet. In the same page that you are quoting, in the "Purpose" column
it's the answer for your question.

       Then, look ALL the files ( the *.H and *.C) and there you will also
find valuable information.

       At the begging of this thread you mention that you wanted to do a
simple project to test your understanding. I think this is not the right
project. It might be easy to put in a MCU and make it work, but when it
doesn't work it becomes very hard to solve if this is your first project.

       I would suggest to start with a blinking led, a keyboard or stuff
like that. I would also suggest that you write your own code before you
start dealing with complex projects... That will really test your skills.

       Best regards,

Mauricio Jancic
Janso Desarrollos - Microchip Consultants Program Member
.....infoSTOPspamspam@spam@janso.com.ar
http://www.janso.com.ar
(54) 11 - 4542 - 3519

'[PIC] Embedded web server with ENC28J60?'
2005\05\04@093210 by Paul James E.

picon face

kerrisnow,

I just attended a Microchip seminar yesterday and they spoke of this
very part.   Responses to your questions are listed below by the
respective question. And as an FYI, MPLAB 7.10 now has a simulator
logic analyzer.   It can be accessed from the "VIEW' drop down menu.
Hope this helps you out.  Let me know how you make out.

                                          Regards,

                                            Jim


> I want to make an embeded webserver with the ENC28J60.
> I downloaded the tcpip stack software from the microchip
>site, and now I have these questions:
>
> 1. First of all, I do not know which C compiler to use, is there
> a free one on the microchip site?

 A.  It is intended to be used with PIC C18 compiler from Microchip.
     It will compile with one other compiler that Microchip uses, but
     I don't recall the name right off hand.

     You can download a demo version of the PICC18 compiler from
     Microchip.   This is a fully functional unhampered version.
     But after 30 day trial is up, the optimization turns off, and
     the compiled file size gets extremely huge.  But other than that,
     this is the same compiler you would buy from them.
     I don't have first hand experience with this.   It's just what we
     were told at the seminar.

{Quote hidden}

 A  Yes.   Again according to the people at the seminar.
>
> 3. How do I link my web pages to the device?

 A About linking pages I don't know.   But you can serve pages by
   putting the HTML code for each page in processor memory, or have a
   seperate memory for the pagers and have a routine in the micro to
   access them and transmit them over the network.
>
> 4. Do I need to know anything else regarding the software side of
> things?

 A Possibly.
>
> 5. Lastly, do you think this software will be available on 18f2455?

 A.  Again, I can't say for sure, but the FAE's at the seminar said
     that the stack will run on virtually all of the 18 series parts
     except for the very low end parts.   It will probably even run
     on a 16F877(A).
>
> tnx
>
> --

2005\05\04@100851 by Kerrisnow

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

Thanks, I have sorted all of that from all the answers I received here,
but this only reaffairms for me that these points are as I want them.

'[PIC] Need help with embedded web server'
2005\05\04@124626 by olin_piclist

face picon face
kerrisnow@btinternet.com wrote:
>>> Lastly, where do I define the Defines, for example, to choose tcp I
>>> need to define STACK_USE_TCP, but where do I define this?
>
> I did read this, unfortunately it assumes people know where to put
> defines, probably due to the fact that it is a compiler issue rather
> than a stack issue.
> Trust me, the manual does'nt answer what I have posted.

Yes, it does.  See AN833 (DS00833B) Section "Stack Configuration" on page 3,
second column, line 4: "Most of these are defined in the header file
StackTsk.h.  Some defines that are defined other files are shown with
correponding file name.".  This refers to table 1, "Stack Configuration
Definitions" immediately below on the same page.  What part of this do you
find confusing?

Even without this explicit mention in the manual, you could easily run a
pattern match on all the .h files to find references to a particular symbol.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\05\04@151956 by Peter

picon face

On Tue, 3 May 2005, William Chops Westfield wrote:

> On May 3, 2005, at 11:06 AM, Peter wrote:
>
>> (you only need a subset of the protocol).
>>
> This is theoretically true.  OTOH, I wonder how well it works in practice; if
> you
> don't negotiate the way windows or macos does, things may not talk to you...
>
>> it does not need to negotiate async maps
>>
> Async maps are a good idea, though.  Without negotiating them, you'll
> send every byte less than 32 as two bytes, decreasing throughput
> rather a lot...

But most of these applications send ASCII in the payload so most of the
packets would not need to be escaped. And if they do not send ASCII then
they pobably send short binary and that could travel as data in a ICMP
echo request packet that need not be answered ...

Peter

2005\05\04@235940 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On May 4, 2005, at 12:20 PM, Peter wrote:

> Async maps are a good idea, though.

>> But most of these applications send ASCII in the payload so most of
>> the
>> packets would not need to be escaped.

Payload, perhaps.  That leaves about 44 bytes of PPP/IP/TCP header, much
of which is likely to be bytes that need escaping...

BillW

2005\05\05@132009 by Peter

picon face

On Wed, 4 May 2005, William Chops Westfield wrote:

> Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 20:59:42 -0700
> From: William Chops Westfield <westfwEraseMEspam@spam@mac.com>
> Reply-To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <RemoveMEpiclistspamspamBeGonemit.edu>
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <spamBeGonepiclistKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [PIC] Need help with embedded web server
>
>
> On May 4, 2005, at 12:20 PM, Peter wrote:
>
>> Async maps are a good idea, though.
>
>>> But most of these applications send ASCII in the payload so most of the
>>> packets would not need to be escaped.
>
> Payload, perhaps.  That leaves about 44 bytes of PPP/IP/TCP header, much
> of which is likely to be bytes that need escaping...

44 out of ~1500 ? I don't see a problem with escaping because if the
standard string handling functions are used to massage the buffer then
not escaping those characters will likely be very painful coding-wise.

Peter

2005\05\05@165052 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On May 5, 2005, at 10:20 AM, Peter wrote:

I'm ready to concede the point, but the side issues remain
interesting...

> 44 out of ~1500 ?

I doubt you'll be using 1500 byte packets on a PIC :-)  As the payload
size
goes down, the inefficiency of having a large header increases (VoIP
discovered
this in spades; tiny payload (10ms worth of voice) made the header
increasingly
large.  Header compression did not scale well to the performance and
scaling
requirements of a typical VoIP server/gateway...  Much running around
:-)


>  I don't see a problem with escaping because if the standard string
> handling
> functions are used to massage the buffer then not escaping those
> characters
> will likely be very painful coding-wise.

It's pretty easy to add/remove the escape characters on-the-fly using a
state
machine in the byte transmit/receive functions...

BillW

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2005 , 2006 only
- Today
- New search...