>
> > 1. I understand the idea of a bootloader, can someone with experience in
> > that area please supply me some info on implementing a bootloader section
> > for f873/f877 or point me in good direction.
>
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~wf/wouter/pic/wloader
> and of course the f877 datasheet (real men don't need any other
> documentation)
> btw did you check techref?
>
> Wouter

>
> Cheers...
>
> wouter van ooijen & floortje hanneman wrote:
> >
> > > 1. I understand the idea of a bootloader, can someone with experience in
> > > that area please supply me some info on implementing a bootloader section
> > > for f873/f877 or point me in good direction.
> >
> > http://www.xs4all.nl/~wf/wouter/pic/wloader
> > and of course the f877 datasheet (real men don't need any other
> > documentation)
> > btw did you check techref?
> >
> > Wouter
>
> Nino.

>
> > - It adds a 15 second boot delay to the system. Just a bit too invasive
> for
> >   my taste.
>
> This is a bit excessive, but could probably be tweaked much lower without
> trouble.
>
> > - It requires the programmer to move the code out of the reset area
> instead of
> >   moving it automatically.
>
> I don't view this as a serious issue. You do it -> it's done.

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Byron A Jeff" <@spam@byronKILLspamCC.GATECH.EDU>
>To: <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:05 PM
>Subject: Re: [pic] Bootloader & ICE
>
>
>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 12:34:14PM +1000, Antonio L Benci wrote:
>> > Check out:
>> >
>> >         http://www.dontronics.com/rfarmer.html
>>
>> Just a real quick comment or two from looking at the site:
>>

>> - It adds a 15 second boot delay to the system. Just a bit too invasive
>for
>>   my taste.
>
>This is a bit excessive, but could probably be tweaked much lower without
>trouble.

>
>
> > On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 12:34:14PM +1000, Antonio L Benci wrote:
> > > Check out:
> > >
> > >         http://www.dontronics.com/rfarmer.html
> >
> > Just a real quick comment or two from looking at the site:
> >
> > - I have a problem with the fact that it uses the standard USART. That's a
> >   valuable piece of real estate to dedicate to the bootloader.
>
> Can't the app use the USART once it is running? My bootloader supports this
> with no problem.
>
> > - Because it uses the standard USART it requires the addition of serial
> port
> >   conversion hardware on board the target.
>
> Why can't the level converter be on a programming dongle, instead of on the
> target board.
>
> > - It adds a 15 second boot delay to the system. Just a bit too invasive
> for
> >   my taste.
>
> This is a bit excessive, but could probably be tweaked much lower without
> trouble.
>
> > - It requires the programmer to move the code out of the reset area
> instead of
> >   moving it automatically.
>
> I don't view this as a serious issue. You do it -> it's done.
>
> > I'm absolutely a true fan of Wloader:
>
> Yes, indeed an excellent thing!
>
> Bob Ammerman
> RAm Systems
> (contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
> software)
>

>
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:35:16 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >> On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 12:34:14PM +1000, Antonio L Benci wrote:
> >> > Check out:
> >> >
> >> >         http://www.dontronics.com/rfarmer.html
> >>
> >> Just a real quick comment or two from looking at the site:
> >>
>
> >> - It adds a 15 second boot delay to the system. Just a bit too invasive
> >for
> >>   my taste.
> >
> >This is a bit excessive, but could probably be tweaked much lower without
> >trouble.
> If you have any switches, buttons etc. on your product, use a power-up
> with button(s) held to enter the bootloader, to avoid the delay.
>

> >> Why can't the level converter be on a programming dongle, instead of on the
> >> target board.
> >
> >Point taken. However how do you manage the situation where the programmer
> >dongle and the USART target use differering interface technologies? Like
> >the MIDI example above or the EIA-485 thread that's currently under discussion.
> Easy - the programming interface interfaces RS232 to MIDI (or
> whatever) levels.
>
> >I guess I just feel really strongly in my gut that a bootloader that uses
> >unique standard equipment is bothersome. If there were two USARTS I probably
> >wouldn't be so annoyed.
>
> The beauty of the Pic's self-programming system is that you can
> reprogram with whatever interfaces a product has - I've used it on an
> infra-red interface to reprogram an environmentally sealed product.
> You could even reprogram over MIDI protocols if you really wanted to,
> e.g. if you wanted your customers to be able to reprogram in the
> field. As reprogramming will usually be a fairly rare, knocing up a
> RS232 to MIDI (level only) converter is a small price to pay for the
> flexibility that ICP provides.