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'[PICLIST] [OT] Website?'
2001\01\19@184207 by Bourdon, Bruce

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face
Wynn:

Enjoyed reading your past several posts.

Was wondering if you had a website as it would be neat to see some of the
stuff you've done.

I've been into the hobby almost as long (late '70s), I remember the S-100s,
the Altairs and Imsai-8008s (or were they 8080s?).

My first computer was an "Elf" based on the RCA Cosmac 1802, purchased mail
order from the back of one of the old Popular/Radio Electronics rags... was
$99 (almost as much as I paid for my first car a couple of years later) for
the minimal system: hexkeypad, hex LED display, and a wopping 256 bytes of
total storage (RAM).

Went through the TRS-80 line until the PCs were the only "reasonable"
choice...

One more note on old time systems: I live in southern NH and occasionally
visit Boston, sometimes for the "Computer Museum." They have an Arithmetic
Logic Unit from one of the old NORAD early warning systems (would calculate
intercept vectors, etc.) - it is larger than a small house! You walk down a
corridor between banks of tube-based logic modules (removable to facilitate
quick repair).

If your ever in that area, it's pretty cool...

Sadly, though I've seen alot, I still create code at a snails pace. :(

Bruce (and no, no web site on my end).

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2001\01\19@232206 by James Korman

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"Bourdon, Bruce" wrote:
>
> Wynn:
>
> Enjoyed reading your past several posts.
>
> Was wondering if you had a website as it would be neat to see some of the
> stuff you've done.
>
> I've been into the hobby almost as long (late '70s), I remember the S-100s,
> the Altairs and Imsai-8008s (or were they 8080s?).
>
> My first computer was an "Elf" based on the RCA Cosmac 1802, purchased mail
> order from the back of one of the old Popular/Radio Electronics rags... was
> $99 (almost as much as I paid for my first car a couple of years later) for
> the minimal system: hexkeypad, hex LED display, and a wopping 256 bytes of
> total storage (RAM).

If you haven't seen this site, you've got to take a look

  http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/computer_simulators.htm

Jim Korman

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'[PICLIST] [OT] Website? (now Elf, Altair and Imsai'
2001\01\20@193531 by Bourdon, Bruce

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Jim:
Thank You, I really needed that.
Bruce.

>If you haven't seen this site, you've got to take a look
>
>   http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/computer_simulators.htm
>
>Jim Korman

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2001\01\22@051032 by Alan B. Pearce

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>One more note on old time systems: I live in southern NH and occasionally
>visit Boston, sometimes for the "Computer Museum." They have an Arithmetic
>Logic Unit from one of the old NORAD early warning systems (would calculate
>intercept vectors, etc.) - it is larger than a small house! You walk down a
>corridor between banks of tube-based logic modules (removable to facilitate
>quick repair).

If anyone is in the UK be aware that the Bletchley Park Trust is in the process
of building a replica of the Colossus computers used during the war for breaking
the German secret codes.

See http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/ for more information.

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2001\01\22@075525 by Bob Ammerman

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----- Original Message -----
From: Alan B. Pearce <.....A.B.PearceKILLspamspam@spam@RL.AC.UK>
To: <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Website?


> >One more note on old time systems: I live in southern NH and occasionally
> >visit Boston, sometimes for the "Computer Museum." They have an
Arithmetic
> >Logic Unit from one of the old NORAD early warning systems (would
calculate
> >intercept vectors, etc.) - it is larger than a small house! You walk down
a
> >corridor between banks of tube-based logic modules (removable to
facilitate
> >quick repair).
>
> If anyone is in the UK be aware that the Bletchley Park Trust is in the
process
> of building a replica of the Colossus computers used during the war for
breaking
> the German secret codes.
>

Is that a functioning replica?

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2001\01\22@080348 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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> > If anyone is in the UK be aware that the Bletchley Park Trust is in the
> process
> > of building a replica of the Colossus computers used during the war for
> breaking
> > the German secret codes.
> >
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Ammerman [SMTP:.....RAMMERMANKILLspamspam.....PRODIGY.NET]
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 12:52 PM
> To:   EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [OT] Website?
>
> Is that a functioning replica?
>
Yes.  Take a look at http://www.codesandciphers.org.uk/lorenz/rebuild.htm

Mike

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2001\01\22@095430 by Wynn Rostek

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> Was wondering if you had a website as it would be neat to see some of the
> stuff you've done.

> I've been into the hobby almost as long (late '70s), I remember the
S-100s,
> the Altairs and Imsai-8008s (or were they 8080s?).
>
> My first computer was an "Elf" based on the RCA Cosmac 1802, purchased
mail
> order from the back of one of the old Popular/Radio Electronics rags...
>
> One more note on old time systems: I live in southern NH and occasionally
> visit Boston, sometimes for the "Computer Museum." They have an Arithmetic
> Logic Unit from one of the old NORAD early warning systems (would
calculate
> intercept vectors, etc.) - it is larger than a small house!

Bruce,

Altairs, Imais, don't forget the Sols. I had a COSMAC ELF too. the 1802 was
a very interesting machine. I liked the way you could switch which register
was used as the stack pointer, etc. This made it a very powerful machine for
its time. That and the low power drain was likely the reason why it was the
space platform CPU choice well into the 80's. A very neat little
arcitecture. Rad hard versions went a long way towards keeping the CPU in
production and winning design ins for a full two decades. I wonder if any
other micro will ever do as well?

I've never been to New England, but some summer I'd love to take in Mystic
(I have a thing for old wooden sailboats, Catboats in particular having
owned two.) and a run to Boston to take in the Computer Museum sounds like
it would be in order if I ever pull it off. Thanks.

Yes I have a web site. It is mostly a collection of links that I put
together for friends. I did have three projects up, but after some
housecleaning, there are only two there now. the URL is
http://www5.palmnet.net/~war.  Under Electronics/DSP Links/Source Code and
Electronics/DSP Links/Filter program is a program from when I was teaching
myself Visual C++ and Digital Signal processing. It's a program to design
digital filters using fourier series analysis. The other one out there is
under Computing/Microcontrollers/Accurate 1000 day countdown timer. It's a
PIC project to drive an LCD acting as a long duration countdown clock. There
are several other projects that have been up at one time or another, but
everytime I changed ISPs, I did a new web page and picked a different 2 or 3
projects.

Well the code may come flying out of the fingers, but you should see how
long it takes me to get hardware wired up and going. Luckily we have
somebody here that can whip a new circuit together in a few minutes so
between the two of us, things actually get done...

Wynn (Still has most of his fingers) Rostek

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2001\01\22@100105 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
> > > If anyone is in the UK be aware that the Bletchley Park Trust is in
the
> > process
> > > of building a replica of the Colossus computers used during the war
for
> > breaking
> > > the German secret codes.
> > >

> > Is that a functioning replica?

>Yes.

AWESOME!

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2001\01\22@111612 by Fansler, David

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Boy - someone else who knew/worked with the 1800 series of cpu's!  My first
computer was 1802 based on the article (with a couple of other follow up
articles) in Popular Electronics.  I still have the original magazine!.  My
wife gave me the parts for Christmas of 1976.  The box had switches for
inputting data - later I added a hex keypad. I thought I reached heaven when
I added an ASR-33 teletype.  I developed and built several data collection
devices for the medical reference lab I worked for.  By the end of the
projects the series had moved up to the 1805 with a blazing 5 MHz clock.
RCA came out with a hardware multiply/divide chip.  With my first company
project I was able to purchase a 2 pass, cassette based assembler.  The
first few weeks of trying to use it I thought it was the most cumbersome way
to work.  I could write a program much faster in the machine code than the
assembler. Eventually I did learn to use and even like an assembler.  I
continued to use the 1805 with my last project in the early 90's.

David V. Fansler
Network Administrator
TriPath Imaging, Inc. (formerly AutoCyte, Inc.)
1-800-426-2176 ext 261
Now Showing http://www.dv-fansler.com
Ann Fansler (December 1, 1956 - September 23, 2000)



{Original Message removed}

2001\01\22@130301 by mike

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On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:52:29 -0500, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Yes - they  already have a working replica - I've seen it at the BP
museum. I think it is a 'subset' of the original design, but I believe
they are planning on completing a full machine, as well as one of the
electromechanical 'bombes', which actually  did most of the
cryptanalysis work on Enigma codes. Colossus was only used very late
on, for performing frequency analysis to break the German teleprinter
cipher.

On a similar note, The London Science Museum is about to unveil a
restored, working, 'Pegasus' computer - an early valve UK business
machine, to join their working replica of Babbage's difference engine.

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2001\01\22@155354 by Wynn Rostek

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> ...I thought I reached heaven when
> I added an ASR-33 teletype.

David, you had an ASR-33? Man the number of nights I fell asleep dreaming of
owning an ASR-33. I never did get one, went from Switches to EPROMS to
downloading over a serial port from other computers too fast, but they were
BIG TIME computing in the early days of home computers.

Wynn

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'[PICLIST] [OT] Website? ASR-33?'
2001\01\22@174800 by Barry Gershenfeld

picon face
>> ...I thought I reached heaven when
>> I added an ASR-33 teletype.
>
>David, you had an ASR-33? Man the number of nights I fell asleep dreaming of
>owning an ASR-33. I never did get one, went from Switches to EPROMS to
>downloading over a serial port from other computers too fast, but they were
>BIG TIME computing in the early days of home computers.
>
>Wynn

And as I recall if you really wanted one they were about $1000
surplus.  (I really wanted one.)  The other dream was to find
a way to use a $50 Model 15 (baudot code) in its place.  I
eventually built a "TV-Typewriter" and built my own UART to
make it into a terminal.

Barry

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2001\01\22@180641 by Dale Botkin

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On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Wynn Rostek wrote:

> > ...I thought I reached heaven when
> > I added an ASR-33 teletype.
>
> David, you had an ASR-33? Man the number of nights I fell asleep dreaming of
> owning an ASR-33. I never did get one, went from Switches to EPROMS to
> downloading over a serial port from other computers too fast, but they were
> BIG TIME computing in the early days of home computers.

Amen to that!  I, too, used to dream of an ASR-33.  I was in hog heaven
when I managed to land a KSR-43 and an old Racal 300bps modem!  Dot matrix
at 30cps, and all I had to do was try to find 12" roll paper.  Spent hours
on Compuserve at $3 an hour, along with a bunch of local BBS systems.  It
was an exciting time.

Dale
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discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
               -- Isaac Asimov

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2001\01\22@191043 by Fansler, David

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The reference lab I worked for used them for collection of data.  They would
receive a punched paper tape with the specimen numbers they were to run.
They would load this into the ASR-33 reader where they would be read in as
each test progressed, and then a new tape would be punched with the specimen
number and the results.  That was high tech in the 80's.  Then they moved to
TRS-80 Model 2's and transferred the same info on 8" floppies.  I got to
take care of those computers also.  Ahh the good old days - I sure do not
miss them!

David V. Fansler
Network Administrator
TriPath Imaging, Inc. (formerly AutoCyte, Inc.)
1-800-426-2176 ext 261
Now Showing http://www.dv-fansler.com
Ann Fansler (December 1, 1956 - September 23, 2000)

{Original Message removed}

2001\01\23@123303 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:44:33 -0600 Dale Botkin <KILLspamdaleKILLspamspamBOTKIN.ORG> writes:
{Quote hidden}

       I used to use Teletype model 15 and model 14 (punched tape stuff) for
ham radio. Wire wrapped my first computer using an MC6802. Bought the
Motorola MIKBUG ROM with monitor to make it do something. I/O was a Lear
Siegler ADM-1 CRT terminal ($1,200). Made an audio cassette interface
(Kansas City Standard) for storage of code using the Motorola S1 format.
Made a 300 bps modem and used it to call Source Telecomputing (Virginia)
through a call to TeleNet. The call cost me $7.00 per hour on weekends
while Source cost me $3.00 per hour. Source at a 6800 cross-assembler, so
I wrote code online, assembled it, then downloaded it to my cassette.
This was then loaded into the wirewrapped 6802 board. Also bought an
integer Basic on cassette from Southwest Technical Products. Finally
bought an EPROM programmer (from Sunrise Electronics) for about $2,000.
Bought a license from Microsoft (a parnership at the time) for their
floating point 6800 Basic ($3,000 plust $50 per copy). Bought a Cromemco
CP/M machine with Heath terminal. Bought a Daisywheel printer. bought the
Daysoft PCB CAD package ($2,000) to run on the CP/M machine.
       I'm amazed at what we got done back then...

Harold





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2001\01\23@132630 by severson

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> I/O
> was a Lear
> Siegler ADM-1 CRT terminal ($1,200).

Wow! I bought this terminal for $10 (a decade+ ago) to use as a temporary
test device. I had wondered what it cost when new...

I gave it away.

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2001\01\23@141659 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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> David, you had an ASR-33? Man the number of nights I fell asleep dreaming
of
> owning an ASR-33. I never did get one, went from Switches to EPROMS to
> downloading over a serial port from other computers too fast, but they
were
> BIG TIME computing in the early days of home computers.

I had one too, interfaced to my ExidySorcerer. I abandoned it a few years
ago with pain in my heart. I used it to print mailing lists, on 10 cm wide
paper (much cheaper than telex paper). The poor thing spent most of its time
spacing towards the paper, which had to be in the middle because that's
where the only feed roll was. The ASR was located next to my sisters room,
so my allowed printing times were very restricted...

Wouter

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2001\01\23@142439 by Harold M Hallikainen

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On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:27:18 -0600 Rob Severson <RemoveMEseversonTakeThisOuTspamJGED.COM>
writes:
> > I/O
> > was a Lear
> > Siegler ADM-1 CRT terminal ($1,200).
>
> Wow! I bought this terminal for $10 (a decade+ ago) to use as a
> temporary
> test device. I had wondered what it cost when new...
>
> I gave it away.
>

       You ever look inside one of those things? A huge board with little 14
and 16 pin small scale chips. I think the biggest chip on it was a 40 pin
UART. I had the service manual on it. They had built their own processor
out of all these small scale chips, then executed code to make it a
terminal.  The stuff people went through before microprocessors!!!

Harold



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2001\01\23@143513 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
I'm kinda curious: did UART ICs come before microprocessors? If I
remember correctly the first microprocessor (actually a microcontroller,
I'd guess) was the 4004 in 1971 (or was it 72?). It seems to me as
thought a decent, simple microprocessor could be made with fewer
transistors than a full UART chip.

Sean


On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Harold M Hallikainen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\23@144049 by severson

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> > > I/O
> > > was a Lear
> > > Siegler ADM-1 CRT terminal ($1,200).
> >
> > Wow! I bought this terminal for $10 (a decade+ ago) to use as a
> > temporary
> > test device. I had wondered what it cost when new...
> >
> > I gave it away.
> >
>
>         You ever look inside one of those things?

My cell phone might be the ONLY thing that I have not looked inside. (!) The
inside of the LS was a marvel in gate-level design. The video generation
circuits were worth a study. I wonder if anybody could copy the design into
a xilinx and run it from there. It'd make an interesting demo to show the
16" by 20" PCB reduced to a single 44 pin chip.




> A huge
> board with little 14
> and 16 pin small scale chips. I think the biggest chip on it
> was a 40 pin
> UART. I had the service manual on it.

A service manual would have been great to have...


> They had built their
> own processor
> out of all these small scale chips, then executed code to make it a
> terminal.  The stuff people went through before microprocessors!!!
>
> Harold
>

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2001\01\23@145204 by Arthur Brown

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I still got my ASR-33 in the loft along with a GE Termiprinter <lollypop
line at once>.
I wanted a tape/unit for the ASR-33 but never got one.
I used lining wallpaper cut to size with hand saw as rolls of paper was
expensive.
I remember buying my first dot matrix printer cost #420.00

and we moan with the cost of a laser printer now #195
by moan my better half Why do you want another printer?

Re:gards Art

{Original Message removed}

2001\01\23@152015 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
       I believe UART preceeded processors. The first one I used was the
AY5-1013. Required +5 and -12V. The 6402 is a pin compatible CMOS single
voltage part. I think there were UARTS before the AY5-1013 (a General
Instrument part, if I recall correctly). I built my first UART out of
shift registers with a 555 timer I stopped and started...  Early
1970's...
       Someone else mentioned the 1802 processor. I recall when RCA introduced
this, the first CMOS processor (again, if memory serves). My old
expensive Sunrise Electronics ZAP-80 EPROM programmer (which handled the
1702 through 2764 EPROMS) used an 1802. I had trouble with downloading
Motorola S1 code from Source Telecomputing's cross assembler into it, so
I went down to their factory. They hand coded (in hex) the patch to make
it work...

Harold




On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:35:40 -0500 Sean Breheny <spamBeGoneshb7spamBeGonespamCORNELL.EDU>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

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'[PICLIST] [OT] Website? ASR33?'
2001\01\23@165624 by Barry Gershenfeld

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>        You ever look inside one of those things? A huge board with little 14
>and 16 pin small scale chips. I think the biggest chip on it was a 40 pin
>UART. I had the service manual on it. They had built their own processor
>out of all these small scale chips, then executed code to make it a
>terminal.  The stuff people went through before microprocessors!!!
>
>Harold

I used to repair the next generation.  Same setup but there was
an 8008 inside.  All the video memory functions and whatnot
were way too fast for the processor.  All the processor got
to do was make the terminal "smart" things--define fields,
transmit a screen, in effect, an application running on
top of all that hardware.  Even the UART function was done
with discrete logic.

These things emulated a VT52 and though I never saw the inside
of a real VT52 I'd guess they were designed like that, too.

Barry

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2001\01\23@172907 by Mitchell D. Miller

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> I believe UART preceeded processors. The first one I used was the
> AY5-1013. Required +5 and -12V.

Say ... isn't that the part the Radio Shack used to sell?  Seems like I used
that same uart years ago, but not in the 70's.

-- Mitch

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2001\01\23@173528 by Barry Gershenfeld

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At 04:30 PM 1/23/01 -0600, you wrote:
>> I believe UART preceeded processors. The first one I used was the
>> AY5-1013. Required +5 and -12V.
>
>Say ... isn't that the part the Radio Shack used to sell?  Seems like I used
>that same uart years ago, but not in the 70's.
>
>-- Mitch

It is.  One day I had a Decwriter go bad.  Radio Shack to the rescue!

Barry

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2001\01\23@180325 by David VanHorn

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At 04:30 PM 1/23/01 -0600, Mitchell D. Miller wrote:
> > I believe UART preceeded processors. The first one I used was the
> > AY5-1013. Required +5 and -12V.
>
>Say ... isn't that the part the Radio Shack used to sell?  Seems like I used
>that same uart years ago, but not in the 70's.

Yes.

I did a board for them in '91, for controlling external devices from a
serial port.
My first "board for hire".

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2001\01\23@185955 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:30:13 -0600 "Mitchell D. Miller"
<TakeThisOuTmdmiller2EraseMEspamspam_OUTHOME.COM> writes:
> > I believe UART preceeded processors. The first one I used was the
> > AY5-1013. Required +5 and -12V.
>
> Say ... isn't that the part the Radio Shack used to sell?  Seems
> like I used
> that same uart years ago, but not in the 70's.
>
> -- Mitch
>
> --

       Just pulled out a drawing I did in November 1977 with the AY5-1013 on
it... I don't recall how old it was at that time...

Harold



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'[PICLIST] [OT] Website? ASR-33?'
2001\01\23@195347 by Blars Blarson

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face
In article <2.2.16.20010122144734.27671e6e@127.0.0.1> you write:
>And as I recall if you really wanted one they were about $1000
>surplus.  (I really wanted one.)  The other dream was to find
>a way to use a $50 Model 15 (baudot code) in its place.

In high school I rigged up a rs232 to 20ma current loop (100v?)
converter and programmed the SOL20 (S100 bus compter with keyboard and
crt driver) to use a kleinshmidt baudot tty as a printer.  (Korean war
surplus, "portable" model with a magnizium cover that could be put on
a back-pack frame.) I hand-assembled the program and typed it in in
hex, and couldn't print anything until it was working.
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'[PICLIST] [OT] Website? ASR33?'
2001\01\23@223443 by Dale Botkin

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On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Barry Gershenfeld wrote:

> >        You ever look inside one of those things? A huge board with little 14
> >and 16 pin small scale chips. I think the biggest chip on it was a 40 pin
> >UART. I had the service manual on it. They had built their own processor
> >out of all these small scale chips, then executed code to make it a
> >terminal.  The stuff people went through before microprocessors!!!
> >
> >Harold
>
> I used to repair the next generation.  Same setup but there was
> an 8008 inside.  All the video memory functions and whatnot
> were way too fast for the processor.  All the processor got
> to do was make the terminal "smart" things--define fields,
> transmit a screen, in effect, an application running on
> top of all that hardware.  Even the UART function was done
> with discrete logic.
>
> These things emulated a VT52 and though I never saw the inside
> of a real VT52 I'd guess they were designed like that, too.

My first was a dumb terminal removed from service as an airline
reservation terminal around 1980, I don't even remember who made it.
Parallel interface to the system, the video memory used (if I recall
correctly) Mostek or some such 80-bit shift registers. Lots of 'em.  All
SSI, four roughly 8x10 boards in a cage.  I intercepted the 8-bit parallel
+ strobe connection from the ASCII keyboard (remember those?) to drop in
my wire-wrapped, scratch built board -- 8080, 2K EPROM, and 8K of 2114
static RAM.  Wrote the monitor and hand assembled it (no access to a
system with an assembler!). I was in the Army at the time, and the whole
mess was stolen in transit from Korea before I got an EPROM burner built
so I never got to actually use it. I could verify all the hardware was
working, but never actually got to play with it.  Still miss that pile of
stuff to this day.

Dale
(man, is this getting pathetic or what?)
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2001\01\23@223652 by Dale Botkin

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face
On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Mitchell D. Miller wrote:

> > I believe UART preceeded processors. The first one I used was the
> > AY5-1013. Required +5 and -12V.
>
> Say ... isn't that the part the Radio Shack used to sell?  Seems like I used
> that same uart years ago, but not in the 70's.

Duuuuh.  Meant to say, "there was also an AY3-1015".

Dale
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2001\01\23@230720 by Dale Botkin

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On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Mitchell D. Miller wrote:

> > I believe UART preceeded processors. The first one I used was the
> > AY5-1013. Required +5 and -12V.
>
> Say ... isn't that the part the Radio Shack used to sell?  Seems like I used
> that same uart years ago, but not in the 70's.

Yep.  There was also an AY5-1013, just to add to the confusion.

Dale
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discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
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2001\01\23@235917 by Robert Rolf

picon face
Dale Botkin wrote:
>
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Mitchell D. Miller wrote:
>
> > > I believe UART preceeded processors. The first one I used was the
> > > AY5-1013. Required +5 and -12V.
> >
> > Say ... isn't that the part the Radio Shack used to sell?  Seems like I used
> > that same uart years ago, but not in the 70's.
>
> Duuuuh.  Meant to say, "there was also an AY3-1015".

Yeah. The nice thing about the 1015 was that is was single supply.
You could go from 1013 to 1015, but not the other way.

I build a robot controller (anyone remember the Minimover? 6 steppers
controlling base, shoulder, elbow, wrist left, w right, and grip)
with nothing more than the AY5-1015 and
a bunch of latches for the stepping motor phases. Upper nybble choose
latch, lower nybble was motor phase pattern. Pascal software drove it,
and got position feedback from 10 turn pots connected to an ADC808.

So who need PICs <G>?

Robert

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2001\01\24@052149 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Someone else mentioned the 1802 processor. I recall when RCA introduced
>this, the first CMOS processor (again, if memory serves).

I worked for the NZ agents for RCA at the time the 1802 was introduced, which
was how I got one of the development boards. I also had the opportunity to look
inside the video game console that RCA developed, as the company got one in as a
sample. A quick copy of the ROM and hand disassembly to look at the techniques
used. I still have punched tapes of the 1802 assembler and editor that came with
the full development system. They had to be altered slightly to run on the
development board, but someone had already done that before I got copies. Not
sure if I still have copies of the video game rom though.

This video game had a faulty RAM chip in it, that made a good demonstration of
the way data patterns can influence the way such things fail. One of the games
was a drawing game where by pressing keys on the keyboard you could move the
cursor around the screen to make patterns. On this machine by drawing a diagonal
line from one corner with the rest of the screen clear you would get to a
certain cell and then several cells in other parts of the screen would also show
the cursor flashing. If a line had already been drawn on an adjacent parallel
line to this line then the pattern of cursors flashing across the screen did not
happen.

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'[PICLIST] [OT] Website? - UARTS'
2001\01\24@053037 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
> > I believe UART preceeded processors. The first one I used was the
> > AY5-1013. Required +5 and -12V.
>
> Say ... isn't that the part the Radio Shack used to sell?  Seems like I used
> that same uart years ago, but not in the 70's.

There was also a Texas Instruments chip that was pin compatible to these. It had
a problem operating at high speed (as in 9600B was high speed) and would lock
up. The system we had these in was connected to a Burroughs machine which ran a
polled network, so in went a timer that reset the chip if there were no polls
received over a certain period.... Then we got some 6402 chips and the problem
was solved properly.

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2001\01\24@062303 by mike

flavicon
face
On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:35:40 -0500, you wrote:

>I'm kinda curious: did UART ICs come before microprocessors? If I
>remember correctly the first microprocessor (actually a microcontroller,
>I'd guess) was the 4004 in 1971 (or was it 72?). It seems to me as
>thought a decent, simple microprocessor could be made with fewer
>transistors than a full UART chip.
I don't think so, remember they didn't have fifos, internal baudrate
gens  etc. in those days... All you need is a shiftreg, some clock
dividers and a pretty simple state machine - rather less than even a
4004. I'm sure you could do it with less than a dozen 74TTLs

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'[PICLIST] [OT] Website? ASR33? Smoke signals?'
2001\01\24@143030 by Barry Gershenfeld

picon face
>...Still miss that pile of stuff to this day.
>
>Dale
>(man, is this getting pathetic or what?)

Karen's Law states that any technically oriented conversation
will ultimately degenerate into "computer museum wars".

Barry

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'[PICLIST] [OT] Website? UART?'
2001\01\24@150127 by Barry Gershenfeld

picon face
>I don't think so, remember they didn't have fifos, internal baudrate
>gens  etc. in those days... All you need is a shiftreg, some clock
>dividers and a pretty simple state machine - rather less than even a
>4004. I'm sure you could do it with less than a dozen 74TTLs

>There was also a Texas Instruments chip that was pin compatible to these.
It had
>a problem operating at high speed (as in 9600B was high speed) and would lock
>up. The system we had these in was connected to a Burroughs machine which ran a
>polled network, so in went a timer that reset the chip if there were no polls
>received over a certain period.... Then we got some 6402 chips and the problem
>was solved properly.


Well, I did build my own UART and it took about 10 TTL chips.  It
had a bug, too, because I jumped from the parity bit to the stop
bit without waiting.  The state machine was just a counter.  The
baud rate was done with a 555 and a 10-turn pot.  It was NOT
stable but I could "tune" it each time until it worked.

I had seen these all-in-one chips called "UART"s at swap meets
but they were rare and I didn't get to the swap meets all that
often.   Finally I decided to get one (like $6) and so made
myself a pc board and assembled the thing.  It worked, too.
Until one day I got +5 across one of the outputs and then,
no more chip!  I was sunk.  I'd ruined my board.  Lo and
behold, a friend got me some datasheets for this chip and we
discovered, as Alan said, that it (the TI 6011) was indeed
pin-for-pin compatible to the AY-5-1013.  I was saved!

I still have all that stuff.  One day I'll get a digital
camera and...

Barry

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'[PICLIST] [OT] Website? ASR-33?'
2001\01\25@205330 by miked

flavicon
face
> I still got my ASR-33 in the loft along with a GE Termiprinter <lollypop
> line at once>.
> I wanted a tape/unit for the ASR-33 but never got one.
> I used lining wallpaper cut to size with hand saw as rolls of paper was
> expensive.
> I remember buying my first dot matrix printer cost #420.00
>
> and we moan with the cost of a laser printer now #195
> by moan my better half Why do you want another printer?
>
> Re:gards Art
>
I still got my Epson MX80, $460 20 years ago.

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2001\01\26@130600 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:52:40 -0500 Mike DeMetz <EraseMEmikedspamELKHART.NET>
writes:
> >
> I still got my Epson MX80, $460 20 years ago.
>

       Neat! The first dot matrix printers I saw were the Extel printers that
the wire services were putting in to replace the Teletype model 15
printers in the early 1970's. The first inkjet printer I saw was an
Olivetti in maybe the early 1980's or so. It looked like it had one ink
nozzle. The print head zipped back and forth across the page real fast
drawing little dots. Sometimes they lined up to form characters.
Actually, it did work pretty well, but the print was pretty light.

Harold


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2001\01\27@103052 by dre Domingos F. Souza

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>> I still got my Epson MX80, $460 20 years ago.

       Man, IT was SLOW!!!

>nozzle. The print head zipped back and forth across the page real fast
>drawing little dots. Sometimes they lined up to form characters.

       :oD


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