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'[PICLIST] [OT] Outlook is a virus (was Re: VIRUS W'
2001\05\12@212415 by i r thomas

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On 05/12/2001 at 10:46 AM Mark Newland wrote:
>Better yet, use something better than Outlook.

Anyone who is stupid enough to use Outlook or Outlook express ( despite the well known security holes)
deserves the VBS viruses that it is victim to.

check:
http://www.google.com/search?q=outlook+security&sourceid=opera&num=0

Google has 634,000 entries.

New Order has many, many , entries.
check:
http://neworder.box.sk/search.php3?srch=outlook

Repeat after me:
Only use text mode email clients.
Embedded vba , vbs, exes and html are the root of all evil.

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2001\05\12@213244 by Randy Glenn

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Thanks so much for stereotyping me. I really needed that :)

You don't always have a choice as to what e-mail client you use. Sometimes
corporate policies - or, in my case, two years of archived messages -
dictate what you have to keep using.

On the other hand, anyone who opens strange attachments - even after the
FIRST such virus - is partially responsible for what happens, in my opinion.
That does NOT make all Outlook users idiots, thank you very much.

-Randy Glenn
New record for time between Windows reinstalls: 4 months.
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{Original Message removed}

2001\05\12@214555 by i r thomas

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*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 05/12/2001 at 9:32 PM someone  wrote:

>Thanks so much for stereotyping me. I really needed that :)

Anytime.

> Sometimes
>corporate policies - or, in my case, two years of archived messages -
>dictate what you have to keep using.
>That does NOT make all Outlook users idiots, thank you very much.

Hmm....
He uses Outlook.
Reason: because he has "archived messages".
Yet thinks that he is not an idiot....
Strange how self delusion works....

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2001\05\12@215650 by Herbert Graf

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Quite frankly I take offense to this post. While I generally dislike
Mickeysoft products Outlook and IE are by far the BEST on the market for me,
text based clients are OK (I use pine from time to time) however I can read
mail much faster with Outlook because of one specific feature: the preview
pane. No other product's "preview pane" works as well as Outlook's, and any
client without it is useless to me. I think you should be a little more
careful on stereotyping people, the "threats" spewed in your post are
exaggerated (as are most reports of the media), I have yet to be infected by
a virus/worm/trojan through the use of Outlook. I expect an apology.

> {Original Message removed}

2001\05\12@215919 by Herbert Graf

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{Quote hidden}

       You won't last very much longer on this list if you continue to insult some
of it's users.

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2001\05\12@221617 by Bob Blick

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>        You won't last very much longer on this list if you continue to
insult some
>of it's users.

Whoa, hang on a bit, no need to threaten anyone. Why all this hot under the
collar stuff in defense of Microsoft and users. It's not like Lookout
Express has gotten more secure with each release, it's worse each time.

"first warning" :-)

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2001\05\12@222048 by i r thomas

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>        You won't last very much longer on this list if you continue to
>insult some of it's users.

Threats rather than reasoned debate....?
Is that how this list works ?

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2001\05\12@223959 by michael brown

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> >        You won't last very much longer on this list if you continue to
> >insult some of it's users.
>
> Threats rather than reasoned debate....?
> Is that how this list works ?

I wouldn't say that.  But, I also wouldn't say that directly calling someone
an "idiot" is reasoned debate.  IMHO you should have gotten the warning and
not Herbert.  If I get one now, so be it.
I am a strong Linux advocate, but I still have to use Windoze for some
things.  And yes I too use OE to read my mail.  When you can get Quicken,
Adobe Photoshop, MPLAB, and too many others to mention running under Linux,
let me know.  I've been caught with my pants down in both Windoze(caught
virus thru open share when connected to a customers network) and Linux
(rpc.statd buffer overrun hacker exploit).  In neither case did I actively
do anything (like run an attachment) to get nailed.  All software has bugs.
That's life.  The best that anyone can do is try to stay on top of all
available security updates, whatever the OS.  Do you have all your patches
installed?

Michael Brown
Instant Net Solutions
http://www.KillerPCs.net

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2001\05\12@224606 by James Newton

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This is not a thread that I want to see continue.

NO RESPONSES. NO MORE USE OF DEMEANING LABELS. NEXT ONE GETS THE AUTHOR
KICKED.

FINAL WARNING.

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
@spam@jamesnewtonKILLspamspampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2001\05\12@225856 by Jim Korman

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i r thomas wrote:
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 05/12/2001 at 9:32 PM someone  wrote:
>
> >Thanks so much for stereotyping me. I really needed that :)
>
> Anytime.
>
> > Sometimes
> >corporate policies - or, in my case, two years of archived messages -
> >dictate what you have to keep using.
> >That does NOT make all Outlook users idiots, thank you very much.
>
> Hmm....
> He uses Outlook.
> Reason: because he has "archived messages".
> Yet thinks that he is not an idiot....
> Strange how self delusion works....

Now, now be kind to your brethren, He like myself probably has no
choice in the matter. In my case the keepers of the LAN, (I'm
being kind) have spoken from on high, "Thou shalt use Outlook".

So you run everything with preview off, and every once in
a while it collects the stray virus. I'm waiting for Monday morning.

Jim Korman

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2001\05\12@234827 by Herbert Graf

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> >        You won't last very much longer on this list if you continue to
> >insult some of it's users.
>
> Threats rather than reasoned debate....?
> Is that how this list works ?

       No, but you attempted to insult users such as myself with petty names and
expressed a wish that our data be destroyed. That isn't how this list is run
either. I do not consider my response over the top.

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2001\05\13@002151 by Herbert Graf

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> >        You won't last very much longer on this list if you continue to
> insult some
> >of it's users.
>
> Whoa, hang on a bit, no need to threaten anyone. Why all this hot
> under the
> collar stuff in defense of Microsoft and users. It's not like Lookout
> Express has gotten more secure with each release, it's worse each time.

       I'm not threatening anyone, I have no authority to take someone off this
list. I was responding to the original poster claiming all Outlook users are
idiots and deserve having their data destroyed. I do not believe my response
was over the top.

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2001\05\13@003053 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>Mickeysoft products Outlook and IE are by far the BEST on the market for me,

       Try Calypso...

>mail much faster with Outlook because of one specific feature: the preview
>pane. No other product's "preview pane" works as well as Outlook's, and any

       Calypso has preview pane and does not runs vbs.

>careful on stereotyping people, the "threats" spewed in your post are
>exaggerated (as are most reports of the media), I have yet to be infected by
>a virus/worm/trojan through the use of Outlook. I expect an apology.

       Again, nuts and bolts. Same family, different uses.

       YOU will not be infected by a virus/worm/trojan thru outlook probably because you have enough knowledge not to open an attachment, and probably has disabled the VB Script in windows. But since the computer became a home appliance (there are more computers than refrigerators, go figure!), every type and kind of dumb people has a computer, and knows nothing about VBS, virus, viri, worm, trojan, outlook or EXE files. The only thing they know is that the machine sends and gets e-mail.

       Do you think the "threats" discussed here are exaggerated for these people?

       No?

       Welcome to reality.

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2001\05\13@021009 by Bill Westfield

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[Outlook.  Other mail readers.]

Heh.  Mailer readers OUGHT to be a case where "open source" comes in REAL
handy.  Want a mail reader that's completely text-only?  No problem - we'll
just comment out this code here.  Want one that handles some HTML and
picture enclosures, but never does anything executable, and never opens an
HTTP connection?  No problem.  Want one that reads outlook files?  Not TOO
big of a problem, probably...  Want it to read outlook file as well as those
25 year-old tops20 files?  No harder than reading the outlook files...

BillW

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2001\05\13@030348 by David VanHorn

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At 11:07 PM 5/12/01 -0700, William Chops Westfield wrote:
>[Outlook.  Other mail readers.]
>
>Heh.  Mailer readers OUGHT to be a case where "open source" comes in REAL
>handy.  Want a mail reader that's completely text-only?  No problem - we'll
>just comment out this code here.  Want one that handles some HTML and
>picture enclosures, but never does anything executable, and never opens an
>HTTP connection?  No problem.  Want one that reads outlook files?  Not TOO
>big of a problem, probably...  Want it to read outlook file as well as those
>25 year-old tops20 files?  No harder than reading the outlook files...

Yeah.  Unfortunately, MS wouldn't then have the way to force you into
things so easily.

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2001\05\13@033103 by Your.message.of.Sun

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> Heh.  Mailer readers OUGHT to be a case where "open source" comes in REAL
> handy.

I'm also harking back to the days when an IT department would do actual
programming on major tools packages, not just pick which vendor's mail
application would be the company standard...  Sigh.  (This isn't fair to IT
departments of course, who would be faced with tool development on about
three platforms with widely varying hardware and "moving target"
specifications and operating systems, rather than the single manufacturer
mainframe(s) that ran everything.  But STILL...)

BillW

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2001\05\13@084956 by Bob Ammerman

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I use outlook express (and like it).

I _NEVER_ open executable attachments.

I have _NEVER_ been infected by a virus via eMail.

Does that make me an idiot?

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2001\05\13@085602 by Patrik Husfloen

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Same goes for me,
for those of you that still doesn't use an anti virus program I can recommend InoculateIT personal edition, it's free, and it works good,
it cought the homepage worm that was sent to this list a few days ago.
http://www.cai.com seems to be the URL, otherwise google for it.


Patrik


{Original Message removed}

2001\05\13@090254 by Peter Tiang

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Hi Bob,

   Like one of my friend favourite quote:
   "It takes a greater X to know another X"

   In this case "It takes a greater idiot to
   know another idiot".

   I think Mr. Thomas is being VERY rude here.

   I happened to use Outlook Express as well
   and sensible enough to never open unknown
   attachments and runs a real-time Virus scanner
   to boot.
   Just don't have the time to mess with open
   source or another email client. How sure
   are we that the so-called "open source"
   programs does not include a back-door
   of some sort ? Don't tell me to scan
   thru the thousands of lines of code !!

Regards,
Peter Tiang

===============================================

{Original Message removed}

2001\05\13@180502 by Jinx

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>it cought the homepage worm that was sent to this list a few
> days ago. http://www.cai.com seems to be the URL, otherwise
> google for it.

http://www.antivirus.cai.com

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2001\05\14@190455 by Peter L. Peres

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Bob Ammerman <KILLspamRAMMERMANKILLspamspamPRODIGY.NET> wrote:
> I use outlook express (and like it).
>
> I _NEVER_ open executable attachments.
>
> I have _NEVER_ been infected by a virus via eMail.
>
> Does that make me an idiot?

No, but a member of a minority probably. ;-)

Peter

PS: Am I the only one to notice that people who open attachments from
friends 'because they trust them' are the ones infected by the latest
viruses ?

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2001\05\14@190514 by Peter L. Peres

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>     source or another email client. How sure
>     are we that the so-called "open source"
>     programs does not include a back-door
>     of some sort ? Don't tell me to scan
>     thru the thousands of lines of code !!
>
> Regards,
> Peter Tiang

Well, you always have the option to telnet to the POP3 port and check the
mail by hand ;-). If you do mail server development you might make this a
habit ;-) ;-). Or choose one of the other 150 email clients available,
including the 'original' command line mail command in Unix whose source
code comprises about 280 lines of ANSI C. Yes it's still around ;-)

Peter

PS: So many people look for 'holes' in open source software, and have been
looking for such a long time, that most of the 'old' applications are
bombproof by now (hackers have tried to get 'in' through them for ~20
years so the apps got really good at security in time - the number of
manhours put into these programs in 20 years probably dwarfs more modern
OSes).

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2001\05\14@191609 by Dave Dilatush

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"Peter L. Peres" <RemoveMEplpTakeThisOuTspamACTCOM.CO.IL> wrote...

>PS: Am I the only one to notice that people who open attachments from
>friends 'because they trust them' are the ones infected by the latest
>viruses ?

I trusted my Internet Service Provider, and opened that
interesting-looking "Happy 99" thingy their billing department sent me
once...

I still haven't decided who was stupider: them for sending it, or me
for opening it.

Live and learn...

DD

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2001\05\14@202610 by michael brown

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter L. Peres" <spamBeGoneplpspamBeGonespamACTCOM.CO.IL>
To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Outlook is a virus (was Re: VIRUS WARNING)


<SNIP>

> PS: Am I the only one to notice that people who open attachments from
> friends 'because they trust them' are the ones infected by the latest
> viruses ?

The virus writers have noticed.  Practically, all of the new viruses depend
on the 'trust' factor.

TTYL

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2001\05\15@103654 by Peter Tiang

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> Well, you always have the option to telnet to the POP3 port and check the
> mail by hand ;-). If you do mail server development you might make this a
> habit ;-) ;-).

   Actually, I'm currently developing an email client
   for an embedded application and using
   <flame shield> Outlook Express </flame shield>
   as the model for ease-of-use ;-)

> Or choose one of the other 150 email clients available,
> including the 'original' command line mail command in Unix whose source
> code comprises about 280 lines of ANSI C. Yes it's still around ;-)

   'Telnet'ting and Unix mail reader is fine for
   a techie, but the target end-user are
   non PC-centric users in the third world
   countries who probably have never touch
   a PC before.

   Anybody has other suggestions for other
   easy to use email client ?

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2001\05\15@193604 by i r thomas

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>    Anybody has other suggestions for other
>    easy to use email client ?

Calypso.
It handles multiple accounts on multiple servers with ease.
Check:
http://www.calypsoemail.com/index.htm

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