Post by thread:[PICLIST] [OT] Internal Antenna baloney!

Alright, I have been seeing so many commercials about this thing and have wondered how it could possibly work. In case you have not heard of it, the "internal antenna" looks to be a thin piece of gold foil with adhesive backing that you place underneath the battery of your cell phone. It claims to boost the signal reception of your cell phone. My question is... How? The phone that is used in the ad is a Nokia of some sort. Lucky me, I have a nokia, so I could use it as comparison. I don't even know how this would work, because it does not appear that the foil is electrically connected with *ANY* contacts on the phone at all. Secondly, the foil does not appear to contain any active components, or any recognizable components at all. It's just foil. Thirdly, the foil does not even seem to be any complete circuit. It appears to be a collection of traces arranged in a U or C shape. Maybe this acts as some sort of RF coil or filter? If so, how could it possibly have an effect since it is neither grounded or connected to the phone? Is this in fact just a bunch of hooey, or does it have any credability as a valid device? What do you think? -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

You would probably have to delve into antenna theory toget the full story, but about all I can offer is that many antennas (especially TV roof antennas) have passive elements which are also not connected to the antenna wires, or grounded. These elements do serve a purpose, however... Whether the internal antenna helps or not is probably subjective. A few scenarios could happen, though. I imagine it couples with internal circuitry, and possible wouldn't pass normal emissions tests, or at least would have higher levels of emissions. Since the strongest emission is the readio signal then it would gain a small bit from pieces of metal neraby, especially those in which it could resonate (the right size/shape, etc). But then you are increasing the emitted signal from the phone which could then exceed FCC (or the equivilant in your coutry) limitations for hand held cell phones. Of course, it could be snake oil. Anyone else see the "X-ION" in stores? Heh... -Adam Matthew Fries wrote: {Quote hidden}>Alright, I have been seeing so many commercials about this thing and have >wondered how it could possibly work. > >In case you have not heard of it, the "internal antenna" looks to be a >thin piece of gold foil with adhesive backing that you place underneath >the battery of your cell phone. It claims to boost the signal reception of >your cell phone. > >My question is... How? > >The phone that is used in the ad is a Nokia of some sort. Lucky me, I have >a nokia, so I could use it as comparison. I don't even know how this would >work, because it does not appear that the foil is electrically >connected with *ANY* contacts on the phone at all. > >Secondly, the foil does not appear to contain any active components, or >any recognizable components at all. It's just foil. > >Thirdly, the foil does not even seem to be any complete circuit. It >appears to be a collection of traces arranged in a U or C shape. Maybe >this acts as some sort of RF coil or filter? If so, how could it possibly >have an effect since it is neither grounded or connected to the phone? > >Is this in fact just a bunch of hooey, or does it have any credability as >a valid device? > >What do you think? > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different >ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > > > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

"I imagine it couples with internal circuitry, and possible wouldn't pass normal emissions tests, or at least would have higher levels of emissions." Good point. Very good point. This 'internal antenna' BS turns my gut every time I see it. *I* should be so unscrupulous so as to market something as vapid as that on TV and bilk millions from the unsuspecting non-technical 'consumers' (a term I despise as well) of technology. How does the "Canons Of Ethics Of Engineers" as printed in ESCHBACH ("Hdbk of Enginering Fundamentals") begin again? "I. Will be honest and impartial, and will serve with devotion his employer, his clients, and the public." I'd still like to see "range plots" of a 'before and after' using the 'internal antenna' just to remain 'impartial' ... Jim {Original Message removed}

Matthew Fries wrote... >Alright, I have been seeing so many commercials about this thing and have >wondered how it could possibly work. > >In case you have not heard of it, the "internal antenna" looks to be a >thin piece of gold foil... [snip] >Is this in fact just a bunch of hooey, or does it have any credability as >a valid device? > >What do you think? I think it works (for the seller) as follows: 1. Gullible customer forks over $29.95 or whatever for one of these things and slaps it onto his cellphone; 2. Customer doesn't notice any improvement, and begins to feel sheepish for having been a dolt; 3a. Customer continues watching those advertisements, seeing that ditzey blonde frown and shake her head at one cell phone (the one that's not ringing) and then smile at the other cell phone (the one with the "internal antenna", which is ringing), and begins to wonder if he installed the device wrong; or 3b. Customer doesn't want to feel like a dumb rube, so he begins to imagine that the device is actually doing something for his reception; and finally, 4. By the time enough people get around to filing consumer fraud complaints with the authorities, the principals have fled to the Bahamas. Not sure, and I may be completely wrong, but I think that's how the "internal antenna" works. Dave -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

I agree that the foil inside the telephone is snake oil. However, passive antenna systems do work in the real world. Getting Handy-Talkies to work from well shielded areas is usually a lost cause. If you bring a coax in from a good resonant antenna and let it hang on the wall you notice a significant improvement. Maybe even enough to be considered good! A very good reason for doing this is to keep emergency communications up during lightning conditions. I understand that a loop on the coax makes things even better but that requires handling the coax. I would imagine that the passive Cell antennas that feature an antenna on the roof of a car with a coax inside the car but not directly connected to the phone would provide a marginal boost. I think you could market a foil skull cap and make zero claims for it and still do a brisk business. John Ferrell 6241 Phillippi Rd Julian NC 27283 Phone: (336)685-9606 Dixie Competition Products NSRCA 479 AMA 4190 W8CCW "My Competition is Not My Enemy" {Original Message removed}

In addition to being baloney (it is not really), it may shape or distort the field from the whip such that some part of it may or may not pass though the void that in some people holds the brain. It may also distort the far field such that you will have to face a particular direction to get good contact in marginal areas. I would not say anything about this until I saw a radiation pattern comparison. What I would say however is that metal bodied phones like Ericsson etc do not need any of this. Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu

My guess is that it does increase the performance of the antenna and this is why I'm saying it. With a plastic bodied telephone and a whip that does not have a decent counterpoise (the newer units are going to have a fractal antenna to allow transmission on cell phone bands and receipt of GPS signals to comply with the FCC requirement so the whip is not applicable with them). With the metal of the "battery antenna enhancer"....even if it was a piece of copper foil tape instead of the fancy looking geometric shape that they get to charge you for, there should be a better capacitive coupling into the hand of the person holding it. My guess is that the cell phone user's body becomes a human counterpoise electrically equivalent to a very lossy ground on the marconi cell phone antenna (loaded whip) along with the fact that the first electrical part of that is the foil tape itself. Half of a Marconi is the ground plane. Mike Kendall {Original Message removed}

Hi Mike, For what you are saying to be true, the metal foil of the "internal antenna" would have to be connected (either directly or capacitively) to the phone's ground. I haven't seen one of these "internal antennas" but I don't see how it is coupled to the phone. Sean On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Mike Kendall wrote: {Quote hidden}> My guess is that it does increase the performance of the antenna and this is > why I'm saying it. With a plastic bodied telephone and a whip that does not > have a decent counterpoise (the newer units are going to have a fractal > antenna to allow transmission on cell phone bands and receipt of GPS signals > to comply with the FCC requirement so the whip is not applicable with them). > With the metal of the "battery antenna enhancer"....even if it was a piece > of copper foil tape instead of the fancy looking geometric shape that they > get to charge you for, there should be a better capacitive coupling into the > hand of the person holding it. My guess is that the cell phone user's body > becomes a human counterpoise electrically equivalent to a very lossy ground > on the marconi cell phone antenna (loaded whip) along with the fact that the > first electrical part of that is the foil tape itself. Half of a Marconi is > the ground plane. > Mike Kendall -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

I thnk I may have found who 'designed' these things ... Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L. Peres" <.....plpKILLspam.....ACTCOM.CO.IL> To: <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:10 PM Subject: [OT] Internal Antenna baloney! {Quote hidden}> In addition to being baloney (it is not really), it may shape or distort > the field from the whip such that some part of it may or may not pass > though the void that in some people holds the brain. It may also distort > the far field such that you will have to face a particular direction to > get good contact in marginal areas. > > I would not say anything about this until I saw a radiation pattern > comparison. > > What I would say however is that metal bodied phones like Ericsson etc do > not need any of this. > > Peter > > -- > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

Hi Sean, Yes I agree and I bet it is capacitively coupled if it does in fact work. A magnetic base of a mobile whip has no problems capacitively coupling into the metal car through the paint. Nobody would know for sure without actually testing this out but a solid copper foil may ground out even better than the stupid looking antenna element. I'd give it greater than 50/50 that the entire thing is a total sham that could not be properly documented in any way. Why don't they publish the data proving them right?? I've seen antenna scams before. There was a guy who claimed to have patents and was selling his junk to the military (or at least trying) He had people pluging in his small piece of junk into everything from satellite backpack radios to medium power vehicle VHF radios. NOSC in Point Loma even measured the antenna in a hyperbolic chamber and exposed him scientifically. All that didn't slow down the herd of uneducated believers that refused to listen to sound advise. I would classify the stick-on antenna as a "placebo cellular phone antenna". It works in the minds of the people who need to justify their purchase and feel better....or maybe it does work better? Personally, I would never modify my cell phone in the first place. I've seen people clip portable yagis into the windows of their car and talk from San Clemente island back to the mainland on cells over 50miles. Mike {Original Message removed}

It is _very_ unlikely capacitively coupled to _anything_. As people pointed out, the foil does not conduct anything to anywhere. I give it less than 1e-99 % chance that it works for most of us. However, for people who believe the aliens gave IC technology to Intel so Andy Groves can let Bill Gates make billions (Gates is really an Alien from dark-star called Yuaranut), this foil will work just fine. The foil, afterall, was designed by even more advanced aliens who gave Qualcomm (Jacobs is also an Alien, but from an alternate universe called Beeghaepmaecheen) the CDMA technology! Then they got dissatisfied with QCOM management and went to Nokia (Finland? isn't that in Buulcheet star system?), but I digress... As for the Yagi, was this car a blueish van with bunch of computer equipment inside? {Quote hidden}> Hi Sean, > Yes I agree and I bet it is capacitively coupled if it does in fact work. > A magnetic base of a mobile whip has no problems capacitively coupling into > the metal car through the paint. Nobody would know for sure without > actually testing this out but a solid copper foil may ground out even better > than the stupid looking antenna element. I'd give it greater than 50/50 > that the entire thing is a total sham that could not be properly documented > in any way. Why don't they publish the data proving them right?? I've seen > antenna scams before. There was a guy who claimed to have patents and was > selling his junk to the military (or at least trying) He had people pluging > in his small piece of junk into everything from satellite backpack radios to > medium power vehicle VHF radios. NOSC in Point Loma even measured the > antenna in a hyperbolic chamber and exposed him scientifically. All that > didn't slow down the herd of uneducated believers that refused to listen to > sound advise. I would classify the stick-on antenna as a "placebo cellular > phone antenna". It works in the minds of the people who need to justify > their purchase and feel better....or maybe it does work better? Personally, > I would never modify my cell phone in the first place. I've seen people > clip portable yagis into the windows of their car and talk from San Clemente > island back to the mainland on cells over 50miles. > Mike _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads