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'[PICLIST] [ADMIN] Mail attachment problems'
2000\10\15@073413 by Terry

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Hi James

I seem to be getting a lot of "error in converting one or more attachments"
when i download mail from the piclist. I'm using Eudora Pro 3.0 mailer. Is
it just me using an outdated mailer or are others having the same problems?

Any advice on what to do? Thanks in advance.

Terry

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2000\10\15@211056 by Peter Grey

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At 07:32 PM 10/15/00 +0800, you wrote:

I am using Eudora Pro 4.0 and am finding the same thing. It started about 4
weeks ago. Some days no problems and others probably 50% have problems.

Peter
{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\15@233947 by James Newton

face picon face
I've looked into this a bit and frankly have no clue what could be causing
it. When Mike gets past finals or Mark gets past his current project I'll
ask them for help.

Since there doesn't seem to be a clear link between the email client and
this problem (some people with the same version of the program have the
problem and others don't) and since it started a few weeks ago, and is not
consistent, I'm guessing its an ISP / server routing issue. That being the
case, it might help if we had headers from each person affected, one from a
message that had the problem and one from a message that doesn't.

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
spam_OUTjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

'All: Re: [ADMIN] Mail attachment problems'
2000\10\16@001552 by Mike

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James Newton wrote:
> I've looked into this a bit and frankly have no clue what could be causing
> it. When Mike gets past finals or Mark gets past his current project I'll
> ask them for help.

Finals?  Not for another month and a half.  Midterms is what was kicking my
butt the past few weeks. ::grin:: But I think I survived.

> Since there doesn't seem to be a clear link between the email client and
> this problem (some people with the same version of the program have the
> problem and others don't) and since it started a few weeks ago, and is not
> consistent, I'm guessing its an ISP / server routing issue. That being the
> case, it might help if we had headers from each person affected, one from a
> message that had the problem and one from a message that doesn't.

Same thing I would have asked for.  Or even just for the folks having this
problem to look and see if the offending messages have any sort of pattern
to them - perhaps all of the problem messages are coming from a certain
group of senders.  Like perhaps a particular ISP's outgoing mail server is
going a bit wacked.

If any of the folks having this trouble can identify some of the messages
that were causing this trouble, let me know a few of them - off list
preferably - and I'll take a look at the message here and see if I can find
anything odd.  To pin down the message, the best info for me would probably
be the sender, the date / time stamp, and the subject line.

Another thing I'd like to ask is about the error message mentioned.  Does
this message come from Eudora?  Or is it coming from the server that Eudora
is getting the mail from?


> {Original Message removed}
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'[PICLIST] [ADMIN] Mail attachment problems'
2000\10\16@102759 by Tom Handley

picon face
  I get the same problem with Eudora. Though many attachments make it,
many from several folks don't. Alan Pearce comes to mind. This brings up
another sore subject. When I'm 300+ messages behind, the same person has
attached over two dozen files and they all fail and I have to manually
ignore them... I'm set for MIME decoding and, as someone else mentioned,
it sounds like a Microsoft problem... I regularly get large attachments
from folks who don't use Microsoft's or a Browser's mailer and never
have problems... This all started in the last couple of months. Before
that, everthing was fine. My system has not changed during that period.

  - Tom

At 07:32 PM 10/15/00 +0800, Terry wrote:
{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

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2000\10\16@103804 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>   I get the same problem with Eudora. Though many attachments make it,
>many from several folks don't. Alan Pearce comes to mind. This brings up

hmm this sounds really strange as I do not send attachments to this list! However I do use Outlook Express and am aware that strange things do sometimes happen when replying to messages on another email list.
For reasons I do not know Outlook Express picks up on something in the particular email I reply to, and seems to screw up the mime type. For whatever reason it then fails to claim the message is plain text, even though set to send only in plain text. I suspect this is the reason for your problems.

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'All: Re: [ADMIN] Mail attachment problems'
2000\10\16@232118 by Mark Willis

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Mike wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Been thinking on this;  Same idea here - Nothing much to contribute,
seems like a path-created problem?  So scanning paths in the headers of
many GOOD and BAD messages is probably THE way to figure this one out...

 Mark

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'[PICLIST] [ADMIN] Mail attachment problems'
2000\10\22@111208 by daniel dourneau

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Lately I have ben experiencing the same sort of problems. From my (very
quick) analysis the mails in question are comming from people using outlook.
The main problem is that you have to be in front of your PC to click the
relevant button or your system will sit there forever.

At 19:32 15/10/00 +0800, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\23@110644 by Tom Handley

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  I've been quietly trying to track this down as well so I can give some
intelligent feedback to the Admins.

  My next step is to e-mail a few folks whose attachments always fail.
Since this started about 2-3 months ago on my machine, I hope to pin it down
to their recent update of their software. I have little doubt that the
problem is with Microsoft. I get large attachments almost daily from folks
that don't use IE or OutLook and they are fine using MIME encoding.

  This brings up a larger issue of attachements. I use to get a lot of
useless *.VCF(?) attachments related to Outlook but I no longer see them
since I've had the failures and tell Eudora to "Get Rid of Them"...

  - Tom

At 12:05 PM 10/22/00 +0100, Terry wrote:
{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

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2000\10\23@173335 by Mike

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part 1 1816 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii (decoded quoted-printable)

I had a few messages sent to me to look at (thanks Terry) and also took a
look at those same messages as I received them myself.  I was unable to find
anything in the messages that should have been troublesome.

Tom Handley wrote:
>    I've been quietly trying to track this down as well so I can give some
> intelligent feedback to the Admins.

Which will be welcomed.  So far I'm stumped.

>    My next step is to e-mail a few folks whose attachments always fail.
> Since this started about 2-3 months ago on my machine, I hope to pin it down
> to their recent update of their software. I have little doubt that the
> problem is with Microsoft. I get large attachments almost daily from folks
> that don't use IE or OutLook and they are fine using MIME encoding.

Well, here's a wrench in the works for you.  The three sample messages I was
sent to look at were originally sent via Forte Agent.  Also, none of the
three messages sent to me even *had* an attachment.

>    This brings up a larger issue of attachements. I use to get a lot of
> useless *.VCF(?) attachments related to Outlook but I no longer see them
> since I've had the failures and tell Eudora to "Get Rid of Them"...

The *.VCF files aren't specific to Outlook.  They are "electronic business
cards" (VCF = Virtual Card File [I think]), and quite a few different
emailers out there will do them.  They are in reality simply a small ASCII
file, containging such things as name and contact information.
-- Mike Werner  KA8YSD   | He that is slow to believe anything and
                     | everything is of great understanding,
'91 GS500E            | for belief in one false principle is the
Morgantown WV         | beginning of all unwisdom.



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2000\10\24@222608 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Mike, thanks for the feedback. This is definitely a mystery. The
failures always come from the same people so I'll follow that lead.
I knew about the *.VCF files but I had always thought Outlook sent
them. Thanks for clearing that up.

  - Tom

At 05:31 PM 10/23/00 -0400, Mike wrote:
{Quote hidden}

down
{Quote hidden}

attachment pro"

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

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2000\10\24@230906 by Mike

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Tom Handley wrote:
>    Mike, thanks for the feedback.

One of the things I'm here for. ::grin::

> This is definitely a mystery. The failures always come from the same
> people so I'll follow that lead.

At least that's a lead to get started with.  Could you pass me a list of
those people? (Offlist is fine) I'd also like to take a look at the message
structures to see if I can find a pattern.  Someone had also said that these
problems just cropped up within the recent past.  If whoever it was that had
spotted that date (or at least a reasonable approximation) I'd like that
also.  I'll go back through my archive and see what - if anything - has
changed with those persons.

> I knew about the *.VCF files but I had always thought Outlook sent
> them. Thanks for clearing that up.

You're welcome.
-- Mike Werner  KA8YSD   | He that is slow to believe anything and
                     | everything is of great understanding,
'91 GS500E            | for belief in one false principle is the
Morgantown WV         | beginning of all unwisdom.



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2000\10\25@134322 by Barry Gershenfeld

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Information, for what it's worth.  This is a mystery that's
a lot older than these occurrances.

My mailer is Eudora 2.2 (16 bit) from 1995.  (Eudora seems to
be a common link).

Messages from a friend of mine that uses one of the Microsoft
Family of mailers often (if not always) come with an attachment.
This attachment always has a header containing the words "Microsoft
Mail".  Following that is a kind of mangled text--all upper case,
no spaces, and lots of unreadable stuff following--so, some kind
of encoding scheme.   In cases where an attachment is intentionally
sent, I would have to take it and strip some number (not fixed) of
bytes from the front of the attachment to recover it (for example
it might be a zip or jpg file).

In trying to characterize the above, I tried different mailers,
different ISP's, even different locations.  The common thread
seemed to be the mailers and not any of the other things.

The kicker, like what is happening here, was when I joined the
list for ORCAD and in their messages there was the following:
"If you get an attachment, discard it. It was not sent by us".
Translation: It's a mystery, we can't fix it, just ignore it.
And sure enough I would get these.

As to the case of what's happening here, I, too get the "bad
attachment" message on a few messages.  I haven't taken the
trouble to find out who they're from, or what they contain,
but I do always select "download as text" so presumably I
have all that stuff.

If it would help for me to investigate the what and where I
will be happy to.  I suspect we have enough eyeballs on
it already.

BTW when I look at some of the more obvious "junk" in my
attachment collection I see they are PGP signatures and
those I assume are intentionally being sent and not
part of this problem.  But, I don't actually know.

Barry

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2000\10\25@155722 by daniel dourneau

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At 10:33 25/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Information, for what it's worth.  This is a mystery that's
>a lot older than these occurrances.
>
>My mailer is Eudora 2.2 (16 bit) from 1995.  (Eudora seems to
>be a common link).
>

The problem is not consistent...
Today one message from Bob Ammerman generated a mail attachment problem,
but he also posted other messages with no problems?
I have started to list people who are generated this mail attachment
problem; it happens only to a handfull of people.
I do not think it is Eudora either.
I ma not even sure that it is due to people using Outlook to post messages.

Only one thing is sure, it only happens on the Piclist and I subscribe to
other lists with the same sort of traffic and I experience no problems.

I do not feel like changing my messaging program just to check if there is
a different behaviour; not enough time on hand.

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2000\10\25@161158 by Bob Ammerman

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----- Original Message -----
From: daniel dourneau <EraseMEddourneauspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMAIL.CODIX.FR>
To: <PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Mail attachment problems


{Quote hidden}

I did send one message with a deliberate attachment today.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

> I have started to list people who are generated this mail attachment
> problem; it happens only to a handfull of people.
> I do not think it is Eudora either.
> I ma not even sure that it is due to people using Outlook to post
messages.
{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\25@162848 by Dan Michaels

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At 09:51 PM 10/25/2000 +0100, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Hmmm, I also use an older version of Eudora, and I also get the
attachment errors every day, that require manual rejection.
[BTW, I do have Eudora v5.0 sitting lonely on the disk, and I
erased Outlook several months ago out of pure cussedness].

However, my question concerns the following - happened yesterday,
and never before ---------

I emailed 2 .ZIP files to a place I have mailed to 8-10 times in
the past. Yesterday the files arrived with the following attachments
appended [one to each]:

ATT00153.txt
ATT00158.txt

These files were not attached by me, and I could not find them
on my HD. My ISP said they do not attach anything extra to emails.
The guys on the receiving end receive many ZIPs each day, and
have not seen this before either. When they looked - the files
were 59 bytes long, but blank, and when copied over to another
disk showed up as 0 bytes.

Anyone else ever see files in their attachment folders like these?
Is this pure co-incidence with the current problem, or is piclist
the breeding grounds for a new kind of virus?

BTW, what was the name of that 17 YO kid, who lived with his
grandmother, and pretended to know everything, and was telling
everybody how they should program and what languages are too
crappy to use, etc/etc, and that some guys ran off the list
a few months ago? Just curious - he was heavy into hacking.
[hmmm, guess I can go back and look at the old Visual Basic
flamathon threads].

best regards,
- Dan Michaels
==============

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2000\10\25@232356 by Mike

picon face
part 1 2766 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii (decoded quoted-printable)

Barry Gershenfeld wrote:
> Information, for what it's worth.  This is a mystery that's
> a lot older than these occurrances.
> > My mailer is Eudora 2.2 (16 bit) from 1995.  (Eudora seems to
> be a common link).

It's kinda sounding that way.  Question for everyone on list - is there
*anyone* who's getting errors regarding attachments that is *not* using
Eudora?

> Messages from a friend of mine that uses one of the Microsoft
> Family of mailers often (if not always) come with an attachment.
> This attachment always has a header containing the words "Microsoft
> Mail".  Following that is a kind of mangled text--all upper case,
> no spaces, and lots of unreadable stuff following--so, some kind
> of encoding scheme.  
This sounds familiar - the filename of the attachment is probably
WINMAIL.DAT  If so, it is a return receipt request.  Might ask him if he's
got his mailer set to request a return receipt.  I'll bet he does.

<snip>
> As to the case of what's happening here, I, too get the "bad
> attachment" message on a few messages.  I haven't taken the
> trouble to find out who they're from, or what they contain,
> but I do always select "download as text" so presumably I
> have all that stuff.
> > If it would help for me to investigate the what and where I
> will be happy to.  I suspect we have enough eyeballs on
> it already.

Never enough! ::grin:: Seriously, simply a list consisting of:
a) The sender of the problem mail
b) Subject line
c) Date / time stamp of the message
would help me to try and figure out what's going on.  What I can then do is
go through my archive - I keep *all* mail from this list - and take a look
at exactly what I received.

> BTW when I look at some of the more obvious "junk" in my
> attachment collection I see they are PGP signatures and
> those I assume are intentionally being sent and not
> part of this problem.  But, I don't actually know.

If it came from this list it's most likely me. (In which case it'd be gpg,
not pgp.) Wherever they came from, they'd almost certainly be intentional. Cryptographic signatures using pgp or gpg pretty much *have* to be set up on
purpose.  There's a few other schemes that some of the mailers (Netscape and
I think Outlook Express, not sure about Eudora) are starting to build in,
now that crypto regs here in the US are starting to be relaxed a little.
-- Mike Werner  KA8YSD   | He that is slow to believe anything and
                     | everything is of great understanding,
'91 GS500E            | for belief in one false principle is the
Morgantown WV         | beginning of all unwisdom.



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2000\10\26@013200 by Dwayne Reid

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Just a quick note: I have been using Eudora for many years.  I don't
remember much in the way of attachment problems with the early versions and
have definitely NOT had problems with any of the 4.x versions of
Eudora.  Lots of stuff I have to keep weeding out of my attach directory
but nothing that Eudora has choked on.

dwayne


Dwayne Reid   <@spam@dwaynerKILLspamspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 16 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2000)

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2000\10\26@043452 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>ATT00153.txt
>ATT00158.txt

I sometimes see attachments like these, and have no idea where they originate. I use Outlook Express, and assumed that the company Exchange Server did things that only get used by Outlook users that link to the Exchange Server for their Corporate Calendar facilities that that offers.

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2000\10\26@114650 by O'Reilly John E NORC

flavicon
face
I am using Microsoft Outlook connected to Microsoft Exchange.  We also have
Norton Antivirus running.  I have been getting warning messages from NAV
that it "quarantined" the attachment because it could not read it to scan
it.  I have not tried to open the attachments.

This is what NAV sends to me:

Sender of the attachment:  Scott Dattalo
Subject of the message:  Re: [PIC]: Number crunching, enclosed is 24x24 equ
48, have fun
One or more attachments were quarantined.
 Attachment message.txt was Quarantined for the following reasons:
       Scan Engine error in extracting a file from a compressed file

John

{Original Message removed}

2000\10\26@120049 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, O'Reilly John E NORC wrote:

> I am using Microsoft Outlook connected to Microsoft Exchange.  We also have
> Norton Antivirus running.  I have been getting warning messages from NAV
> that it "quarantined" the attachment because it could not read it to scan
> it.  I have not tried to open the attachments.
>
> This is what NAV sends to me:
>
> Sender of the attachment:  Scott Dattalo
> Subject of the message:  Re: [PIC]: Number crunching, enclosed is 24x24 equ
> 48, have fun
> One or more attachments were quarantined.
>   Attachment message.txt was Quarantined for the following reasons:
>         Scan Engine error in extracting a file from a compressed file
>
> John

Yes, PINE replies from me are notorious for polluting e-mail with text
attachments. I can understand how a sophisticated mail program like Microsoft
Outlook could choke on this. I mean, some of my response are difficult for me to
read. Especially when I forget to comment my code. Damn, I hate it when that
happens. (Olin, I ask for fogiveness in advance). But then perhaps it's better
than Lotus Notes in that it doesn't randomly crash. Of course, Notes is
fantastic because it knows that all e-mail is trash and so doesn't inhibit it's
users with sophisticated choices like allowing interspersed responses with
replies. Otoh, since it does crash frequently you're relieved from responding to
e-mail. PINE is for the obstinate user, no doubt. After I get a life, I might
get a REAL e-mail program.

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2000\10\26@120300 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Alan, actually, you are the first one I had problems with. This
started around 2-3 months ago. All of your attachments fail at my end.
If you can pass Mike any details that might help.

  - Tom

At 09:33 AM 10/26/00 +0100, Alan B. Pearce wrote:
>>ATT00153.txt
>>ATT00158.txt
>
>I sometimes see attachments like these, and have no idea where they
originate. I use Outlook Express, and assumed that the company Exchange
Server did things that only get used by Outlook users that link to the
Exchange Server for their Corporate Calendar facilities that that offers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

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2000\10\26@120306 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Mike, thanks. I'll pass on the list soon. I'm still doing some testing
at my end. I get *.GIF, *.JPG, *.PCX, *.ZIP, and other files fine and your
privacy attachment signature is fine. The only thing that seems to have
changed is that I no longer see the *.VCF files which use to `pollute' my
attachment directory nearly every day...

  As far as a problem with Eudora, I don't think that's the issue. Since
things were working fine for years, something else has changed...

  - Tom

At 11:07 PM 10/24/00 -0400, Mike wrote:
{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
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2000\10\26@122202 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>   Alan, actually, you are the first one I had problems with. This
>started around 2-3 months ago. All of your attachments fail at my end.
>If you can pass Mike any details that might help.

Umm much head scratching as I have Outlook set up to send plain text, and do not have any automatic attachments, but it does go out through an exchange server, so that may be fouling things up. However I do not see attachments on my messages when I open them from the list, so wonder how they are described to you, as in what the attachment file name is etc.
I also send messages home (it seems to be the easiest way of transferring files) and the only attachments I see there is the file I send. That is received on Netscape, so I am at a loss to know what or where the attachments you see are coming from.

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2000\10\26@122412 by Michael Rigby-Jones

flavicon
face
Scott Dattalo wrote:

> Yes, PINE replies from me are notorious for polluting e-mail with text
> attachments. I can understand how a sophisticated mail program like
> Microsoft
> Outlook could choke on this. I mean, some of my response are difficult for
> me to
> read. Especially when I forget to comment my code. Damn, I hate it when
> that
> happens. (Olin, I ask for fogiveness in advance). But then perhaps it's
> better
> than Lotus Notes in that it doesn't randomly crash. Of course, Notes is
> fantastic because it knows that all e-mail is trash and so doesn't inhibit
> it's
> users with sophisticated choices like allowing interspersed responses with
> replies. Otoh, since it does crash frequently you're relieved from
> responding to
> e-mail. PINE is for the obstinate user, no doubt. After I get a life, I
> might
> get a REAL e-mail program.
>
Jeez, the sarcasm is almost burning me.. :o)

Wierdly I only occaisionaly see your post's as attachments.  I've looked
through the headers and all the posts I recieve as attachments from you have
the following in the header

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN

At least your posts either appears as a text attachment or as a normal mail.
When I receive mail from Lotus Notes users, I seem to get the first couple
of sentences in the mail body, and then the rest as an attachment.

Recently (in the past month or so) I receive Mike Werner's posts as a text
attachment called "SMIME.txt".
The headers show:

Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
             protocol="application/pgp-signature";
boundary="/Uq4LBwYP4y1W6pO"

which I guess Outlook is choking on.

Cheers

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2000\10\26@134746 by Barry Gershenfeld

picon face
>Just a quick note: I have been using Eudora for many years.  I don't
>remember much in the way of attachment problems with the early versions and
>have definitely NOT had problems with any of the 4.x versions of
>Eudora.  Lots of stuff I have to keep weeding out of my attach directory
>but nothing that Eudora has choked on.
>
>dwayne

Quick response: If you have lots of "stuff" in your attach directory
then you are getting it too.  It doesn't bother Eudora, it just
bothers those of us (terminally curious types) who actually look
in there from time to time.

Barry

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2000\10\26@134753 by Barry Gershenfeld

picon face
>This sounds familiar - the filename of the attachment is probably
>WINMAIL.DAT  If so, it is a return receipt request.  Might ask him if he's
>got his mailer set to request a return receipt.  I'll bet he does.

Although I've seen that file from other sources this doesn't
fit that description. (But at least now I know what WINMAIL.DAT
is.)  The ones I am referring to are created from the message
title; in fact your gpg signature from the message I'm replying
to got named "readmin3" formed from the alphabetic characters
in the title and then up-numbered because it's saved this
file 3 times now.  That's probably a Eudora decision.

BTW we've been around on this many times and my friend insists
that "nothing" is turned on (and he would know).

>simply a list consisting of:
>a) The sender of the problem mail
>b) Subject line
>c) Date / time stamp of the message
>would help me to try and figure out what's going on.  What I can then do is
>go through my archive - I keep *all* mail from this list - and take a look
>at exactly what I received.

If I can swing it without too much work, I will.

>If it came from this list it's most likely me. (In which case it'd be gpg,
>not pgp.)
>--
>Mike Werner  KA8YSD

FYI the decoded message has the 'begin pgp signature' line which
is probably a pseudo standard keyword of some sort, and an
identification of it being GnuPG, so I wouldn't really know it
was called gpg unless I went to the site and started reading
about it.  And others describing it to you would do the same
unless they already knew about it.

Barry

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2000\10\27@115540 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Alan, first let me say that I'm not blaming you for the problem.
The `vast majority' of problems come from you. If you are not sending
attachments at that rate, this really adds to the `mystery'... I just
got five failed attachments from you (and several from others) this
session. I can not blame my ISP as I get successful attachments all
the time. The only problems I've had is with the MIT PIC List and
that's only from a few folks.

  - Tom

At 05:21 PM 10/26/00 +0100, Alan B. Pearce wrote:
>>   Alan, actually, you are the first one I had problems with. This
>>started around 2-3 months ago. All of your attachments fail at my end.
>>If you can pass Mike any details that might help.
>
>Umm much head scratching as I have Outlook set up to send plain text, and
do not have any automatic attachments, but it does go out through an
exchange server, so that may be fouling things up. However I do not see
attachments on my messages when I open them from the list, so wonder how
they are described to you, as in what the attachment file name is etc.
>
>I also send messages home (it seems to be the easiest way of transferring
files) and the only attachments I see there is the file I send. That is
received on Netscape, so I am at a loss to know what or where the
attachments you see are coming from.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

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2000\10\27@160355 by daniel dourneau

flavicon
face
Today's crop:
Milton medecinteknik,
R Monses,
Alan B Pierce (4 occurences),
John Perkinton,
Mike Harrison,
Bob Ammermann,
RemoveMEnickca928TakeThisOuTspamstudent.liu.se
Dan Michaels (2 occurences).
If anybody can make any sense out of it, especially since other messages
posted by these same people got through without any problem!!!

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2000\10\27@161902 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
daniel dourneau wrote:
>Today's crop:
>Milton medecinteknik,
>R Monses,
>Alan B Pierce (4 occurences),
>John Perkinton,
>Mike Harrison,
>Bob Ammermann,
>TakeThisOuTnickca928EraseMEspamspam_OUTstudent.liu.se
>Dan Michaels (2 occurences).
>If anybody can make any sense out of it, especially since other messages
>posted by these same people got through without any problem!!!
>

OK, today I sent several msgs to sureina-picl-ist, but NONE had
any attachments on them.

Yesterday, I did send a .GIF attachment on one msg, but no
other attachments. Did you note if that was the msg you had the
problem with, or one of my other msgs?

A lot msgs from various people - most notably Adam Davis -
have those funny little 128 [or 256??] byte .PCX attachments,
but I don't use'em - at least not to my knowledge. I do use an
old version of Eudora, not Outlook/etc.

- dan michaels
==============

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2000\10\27@164602 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
My mail has those PCX attachments??  I know they don't when they leave my
computer!

I use netscape (4.7x) and I am certian I am not attaching anything to messages
to the piclist.

When I get my own messages back from the list server, they do not have
attachments either.

Dan, is there a way you can forward to me an example of one of my messages which
has this issue?  I would like the full headers, source, etc.  The headers will
tell us which mail server along the line is adding these messages.

For the record, my mail follows this route:
My computer --> mailhost.det.ameritech.net --> MIT's server

Thanks!

-Adam

Dan Michaels wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\27@213449 by rich+piclist

flavicon
face
On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, M. Adam Davis wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I've always heard that magic pcx attachments are courtesy of lotus smtp,
something to do with corporate logos or some damn thing. Although from
here looks like ubasics.com is running sendmail... have you tried sending
a message manually? I.E.:

telnet yoursmtp.com smtp
helo yourdomain
mail from: you@yourdomain
mail to: someone@notyourdomain (because you don't get 'em)
data
blah
.
quit

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2000\10\29@035136 by Stuart

flavicon
face
part 1 898 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)

High everyone, since we are on the topic of having problems with messages
etc I thought I'd report my problem I've been having for quite a while. When
I receive a message from certain people on the list it can take about 1
minute to open the message once I've downloaded it, if I highlite the
message and hit delete, that to takes about 1 minute. It doesn't do it for
everyone and it doesn't do it for the same person every time BUT if it
occurs on a message it will also happen to every reply to that message.
For example the attached message from Dragan Kujovic basically causes my
computer to stop for 1 minute if i try to read or even preview it, if anyone
replies to this message the same will happen to their message but Dragan
Kujovic may send another message in a week and it will be fine.
Does anyone know what could be causing this?

Regards
Stuart





part 2 4027 bytes content-type:message/rfc822; (decode)

part 3 228 bytes
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2000\10\29@041913 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Uh, since that message's from the PICBasic-L List, we really cannot do
much about it - I don't know much about Outlook Express, I'd suggest the
usual helpful things (While Netscape is shut down I regularly delete and
re-create the Netscape Cache Directory, to preclude directory structure
fragmentation in the directory headers;  I clean out my Temp directory
regularly;  I delete all the *.snm files in my mail directory to keep
Netscape from getting confused;  And, I defrag my drives regularly - I'm
on WFW 3.11 though) - I'm not sure that those suggestions will help you
much.

It does sorta sound like a fragmented hard drive or a low memory
condition or the like, though.  Except that, those should "hiccup" on
most any message after the first one to get resources low...

 Mark

Stuart wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\29@122123 by Mike

picon face
part 1 1571 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii (decoded quoted-printable)

Stuart wrote:
> High everyone, since we are on the topic of having problems with messages
> etc I thought I'd report my problem I've been having for quite a while. When
> I receive a message from certain people on the list it can take about 1
> minute to open the message once I've downloaded it, if I highlite the
> message and hit delete, that to takes about 1 minute. It doesn't do it for
> everyone and it doesn't do it for the same person every time BUT if it
> occurs on a message it will also happen to every reply to that message.
> For example the attached message from Dragan Kujovic basically causes my
> computer to stop for 1 minute if i try to read or even preview it, if anyone
> replies to this message the same will happen to their message but Dragan
> Kujovic may send another message in a week and it will be fine.
> Does anyone know what could be causing this?

One possiblity is the character set of the message.  The message you
attached was using the koi8-r character set.  I suppose it might be possible
that Outlook needs a few moments to try and figure out what to do with that
character set.  You might try looking at the full headers of messages that
give you problems, and see what character set they are using.
-- Mike Werner  KA8YSD   | He that is slow to believe anything and
                     | everything is of great understanding,
'91 GS500E            | for belief in one false principle is the
Morgantown WV         | beginning of all unwisdom.



part 2 233 bytes content-type:application/pgp-signature (decode)

part 3 228 bytes
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2000\10\29@135529 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>Today's crop:
>Milton medecinteknik,
>R Monses,
>Alan B Pierce (4 occurences),
>John Perkinton,
>Mike Harrison,
>Bob Ammermann,
>nickca928STOPspamspamspam_OUTstudent.liu.se
>Dan Michaels (2 occurences).
>If anybody can make any sense out of it, especially since other messages
>posted by these same people got through without any problem!!!

I don't know what you see, but what I see is all sorts of funny characters
in messages with the mime type set to 7 bits (us-ascii). Is it possible
that the listserv does not clean the buffers before shipping 7-bits as
8-bits and exports garbage to the list that way (just an idea) ?

Peter

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2000\10\29@200014 by Stuart O'Reilly

flavicon
face
Just to add 1 more thing to this is that while my computer stops for
that one minute, if I look at the CPU usage monitor, it goes upto 100%
and stays there until the 1 minute is up..
Regards
Stuart

P.S. I'm running a 200MHz Pentium Pro with 64 megs of ram

Mark Willis wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\30@131250 by daniel dourneau

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The crop the past couple of days:
- Milton Medicinteknik (2 occurences)
- Tony Kubek (2 occurences)

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2000\10\30@163523 by jamesnewton

face picon face
I would not be willing to bet against it.

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[spamBeGonePICLISTSTOPspamspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Peter L. Peres
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 03:13
To: KILLspamPICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PICLIST] [ADMIN] Mail attachment problems


{Quote hidden}

I don't know what you see, but what I see is all sorts of funny characters
in messages with the mime type set to 7 bits (us-ascii). Is it possible
that the listserv does not clean the buffers before shipping 7-bits as
8-bits and exports garbage to the list that way (just an idea) ?

Peter

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=Ads

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2000\10\30@164145 by jamesnewton

face picon face
It would be much more helpful if you could include the full email (including
headers) for some of these so that we can try to see what is common to them.
Especially if you could include some from the same persons which do not show
the problem. I've been looking at posts from people you mention and I don't
see anything strange about any of there posts. I need to know WHICH posts
from these people are causing the problem.

---
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@spam@jamesnewton@spam@spamspam_OUTpiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

2000\10\30@195206 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Probably copy those to James, Mike and I and we'll take a look together
and try to see the cause.  Wouldn't hurt to include some from the same
people which do not cause problems so we can start to debug this!

 Mark

James Newton wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}


'[PICLIST] [ADMIN] Mail attachment problems'
2000\11\01@161413 by daniel dourneau
flavicon
face
First, I think that we should change the subject; from what I have observed
the problem is not coming from mail attachments from from the body of the
message itself. For some strange reason, some characters are not recognised
and cause the mail reader to fail (in my case it is Eudora 3.06).

Here is an exemple from a message written by Tony Kübek:

First there is the correct message:
-----------------------------------

This one is almost exactly as the one I managed to figure out. However I still think there are to many
goto's. But maybe I'm just nitpicking.


/Tony


Tony Kübek, Flintab AB            ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²
E-mail: .....tony.kubekspam_OUTspamflintab.com
²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²

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and second here is the message downloaded as text:
--------------------------------------------------

But this is ofcource NOT true, XOR will 'only' detect if the bytes are
equal NOT that they ALSO are either 0x00 or 0xFF.
So challenge still stands :)

/Tony



Tony K=FCbek, Flintab AB            =

=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=
=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=
=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2
E-mail: TakeThisOuTtony.kubekKILLspamspamspamflintab.com
=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=
=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=
=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2

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End quote.

I have noted that other mails causing problems have the same sort of
structure (to start with, people who answered Tony by quoting the complete
message!) and also some other messages where end of line characters (in
theory they should not be displayed!) show =20 or =

For a message posted by Nestor Marchesini it was a character é changed into
a =E9.

I suspect that some encoder is not doing what it should do and that some
mail readers are fooled.

If somebody wants the messages, I can forward them privately.

It would be interesting to know:
- the type of encoding method used by people who are sending these messages,
- that the "reading" problem is only encountered with Eudora (which version).

The latest crop concerns:
- Tony Nixon,
- Nestor Marchesini,
- Tony Kübek,
- Mike Harrison,
- Philip Adams,
- Scott Dattalo,
- Nikolai Golovchenko (replying to Tony Kübek, so it is the same problem).

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2000\11\04@045226 by daniel dourneau

flavicon
face
I think that I am progressing on this subject.
You will finf hereafter two examples of the problem (both originating from
an Outlook Express mailer). In both instances problem is due to "=" signs
inserted at the end of lines.
Why? I do not know.
How? I do not know.

From Ed Roberts:

Message correctly interpreted:
I modified PICLOADER.ASM at line 78/9 to turn FULMEM on, the config line at
93 to have _HS_OSC rather than _XT_OSC, and at 268 to load D'125' rather
than 25 for operation at 20 MHz. These mods seem to work, ie the PICLOADER
program loads and comes up with its splash screen.

Message incorrectly interpreted:
I modified PICLOADER.ASM at line 78/9 to turn FULMEM on, the config line =
at 93 to have _HS_OSC rather than _XT_OSC, and at 268 to load D'125' =
rather than 25 for operation at 20 MHz. These mods seem to work, ie the =
PICLOADER program loads and comes up with its splash screen.=20


And now from Bob Ammerman

Message correctly interpreted:
Because I am using Pascal rather than C, I am not sure that I am correctly
modifying the assembler code to start from address 3 rather than 0. However,
I would have thought that would affect operation of the overlying code, not
the bootloader's ability to load the code. (What I have done in the
assembler is change org 0 to org 3, and a subsequent org 4  to org 8. It
seems to assemble to hex code without complaint).

Message incorrectly interpreted:
Because I am using Pascal rather than C, I am not sure that I am correctl=
y
modifying the assembler code to start from address 3 rather than 0. Howev=
er,
I would have thought that would affect operation of the overlying code, n=
ot
the bootloader's ability to load the code. (What I have done in the
assembler is change org 0 to org 3, and a subsequent org 4  to org 8. It
seems to assemble to hex code without complaint).

If you can make any sense out of that....

Questions to Ed and Bob:
Do you have Mime encoding turned on or off?
Are you using any specific OS or OS coming from other parts of the world
(Chisese or Japanese version of Windows)?

I have got plenty more of these examples.

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2000\11\04@070519 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
I am using Outlook Express, version 5.00.2615.200.

As fas as I can tell, there are no settings to determine mime format, etc.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

{Original Message removed}

2000\11\04@171848 by rich+piclist

flavicon
face
> I think that I am progressing on this subject.
> You will finf hereafter two examples of the problem (both originating from
> an Outlook Express mailer). In both instances problem is due to "=" signs
> inserted at the end of lines.
> Why? I do not know.
> How? I do not know.

OK guys and gals, here 'tis:

The messages in question all use quoted-printable encoding as defined in
RFC 1341, and enabled by the header:

Content-Transfer-Encoding:  quoted-printable

QP is a way to ensure that ambiguous chars (basically anything not
printable ASCII) get through unmolested, by encoding them as '=XX', where
XX is character's hex value. Also, lines longer than 76 chars must be
split with solo '=' character. We've all seen this when a message was
forwarded and the enabling header was lost.

Anyway, in this case the problem seems to be that piclist occasionally
appends something like this:

"[PIC]:","[SX]:","[AVR]:" =uP ONLY! "[EE]:","[OT]:" =Other "[BUY]:","[AD]:" =Ads

which totally violates the QP encoding rules, and the clients choke and/or
die. James et al, you need to nuke the '='s and shorten the text and all
should be well.

== Rich

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2000\11\04@213539 by James Newton

face picon face
Wow! Nice detective job. Assuming that's actually it, and it makes total
sense to me... If the post happens to be using quote printable encoding and
the list server tacks on a text addendum that has "invalid" QP encoding,
that would do it. We will have to forward this to LSoft as I know it wasn't
in the documentation.

Do you think that
"[PIC]:","[SX]:","[AVR]:" uP ONLY! "[EE]:","`[OT]:" Other "[BUY]:","[AD]:"
Ads
would be ok?

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
spamBeGonejamesnewton@spam@spamspam_OUTpiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2000\11\05@172946 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>messages interpreted correctly or not

Daniel, I think that I know what is up. The messages that you said 'were
not interpreted correctly' contain (broken ?) mime or HTML or Unicode
escapes. I also get characters like 0x3D in the middle of text sometimes
(usually after an equal sign). It would be helpful if you would post the
full headers for two messages (one good one bad).

thank you and good luck (good hunt),

Peter

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2000\11\06@000853 by rich+piclist

flavicon
face
On Sat, 4 Nov 2000, James Newton wrote:

>  Do you think that
> "[PIC]:","[SX]:","[AVR]:" uP ONLY! "[EE]:","`[OT]:" Other "[BUY]:","[AD]:"
> Ads
> would be ok?
RFC says line must break at 76 chars, I think that one is longer? Also
note typical client wraps at col 74 (as seen above).

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2000\11\06@002325 by rich+piclist

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This is also due to QP encoding, since '=' is the escape char, then any
actual '=' is encoded to '=3D'. If the header gets dropped then you are
left with 'X =3D X + 1', and '=20' (trailing spaces) at the ends of lines
and other weirdness.

On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Peter L. Peres wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2000\11\06@020749 by Mike

picon face
part 1 1408 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 (decoded quoted-printable)

rich+@spam@piclistspam_OUTspam.....LCLOGIC.COM wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Nov 2000, James Newton wrote:
> > >  Do you think that
> > "[PIC]:","[SX]:","[AVR]:" uP ONLY! "[EE]:","`[OT]:" Other "[BUY]:","[AD]:"
> > Ads
> > would be ok?
> RFC says line must break at 76 chars, I think that one is longer?

77 by my count.  Can easily be trimmed down to 76.

> Also note typical client wraps at col 74 (as seen above).

Where a client wraps - if at all - is too widely configurable and/or
variable to be worried about for this.  Besides, the tag line is added by
the server, not the client.  True, far too many people don't trim their
posts like they should.  But if I have to start worrying *that* much about
such things when composing the tag lines I'll never come up with anything
usable.

Wish I'd known earlier that Quoted-Printable was so fragile.  Perhaps in my
Copious Spare TimeŽ I'll have a read-through of the rest of the email related
RFC's to see what else I've missed that's just waiting around to bite me
right on the buttocks.
-- Mike Werner  KA8YSD   | He that is slow to believe anything and
                     | everything is of great understanding,
'91 GS500E            | for belief in one false principle is the
Morgantown WV         | beginning of all unwisdom.



part 2 233 bytes content-type:application/pgp-signature (decode)

part 3 135 bytes
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2000\11\06@110417 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Ok, how about

[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

It's 69 characters. Does it still make it clear that the colon is part of
the tag and not being used as a separator?

We are seeing a few SX and AVR posts, but people are not using [BUY]: when
looking for parts...

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PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

2000\11\06@112958 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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Why bother to have descriptions for just a couple of the tags?  Might as
well leave off the descriptions and point people to piclist.com for the full
details.

e.g.

"Please use one of the following subject tags, including the colon.
[PIC]: [SX]: [AVR]: [EE]: [OT]: [BUY]: [AD]: See http://www.piclist.com"

I thought OT stood for "Off Topic" anyway?

Mike
> {Original Message removed}

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