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'[PIC] home brew pic burner circuit ?'
2006\12\01@083239 by J.Bakshi

picon face
Hi list,

could any one suggest me a PIC burner for USB ? I already have self-made JDM,
but my laptop dosen't have COM port.

thanks

2006\12\01@104219 by Jan-Erik Söderholm

face picon face
J.Bakshi skrev:
> Hi list,
>
> could any one suggest me a PIC burner for USB ?

I guess you want a *programmer*, right ?

Maybe an RS232 programmer and an USB->RS232 converter.
They (the converters) can be found pretty cheap now.
By including serial programmers also, you get a lot
more to select from.

Jan-Erik.

2006\12\01@114241 by olin piclist

face picon face
> could any one suggest me a PIC burner for USB ? I already have
> self-made JDM, but my laptop dosen't have COM port.

How fast do you need it?  http://www.embedinc.com/products/eusb2 is coming
"real soon now".  I just got the first sample from the first production lot,
so I have one I could part with if you need it really badly.  I don't know
what the final price will be, but I'll take $80 for just the unit (no USB
cable) with shipping to anywhere in the US.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2006\12\01@122224 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> could any one suggest me a PIC burner for USB ? I already
> have self-made JDM,
> but my laptop dosen't have COM port.

pickit2
ICD2 (and various clones, but some are serial port only)
wisp628 + usb/serial converter
DIY149, DIY182

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\12\01@131905 by peter green

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face

> could any one suggest me a PIC burner for USB ? I already have
> self-made JDM,
> but my laptop dosen't have COM port.
theres my picsquirt

http://www.p10link.net/plugwash/picsquirt

you won't get a USB programmer design much simpler than this, main downside is that i only ever got arround to writing software/firmware for the 18 series (i did do both first gen and second gen 18 series though).



2006\12\01@142115 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> theres my picsquirt http://www.p10link.net/plugwash/picsquirt
> you won't get a USB programmer design much simpler than this,
> main downside is that i only ever got arround to writing
software/firmware
> for the 18 series (i did do both first gen and second gen 18 series
though).

IIRC worts-case USB voltage can be too low to power the
pic-under-programming directly.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\12\01@144103 by olin piclist

face picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> IIRC worts-case USB voltage can be too low to power the
> pic-under-programming directly.

Correct, and is also something Micochip seems to have forgotten when they
designed the PICKit2.  In fact I was at a PICKit2 class at masters this
summer and the Microchip guy teaching it was actually saying that USB power
was "5 volts", which is above the 4.5V required for bulk erase.  That's just
plain wrong.  The PICKit2 may be OK for hobbyists, but it's a lot more quick
and dirty than people seem to realize.  The problem is that it does work
most of the time, so it's hard to convince people there is anything wrong
with it.

The power issues is one reason my USBProg has more parts than the PICKit2.
It actually has three switching power supplies run from two 10F204s.

One boosts the USB power up to about 8V.  This is linearly regulated to 5V
to run the control PIC.  It is also used as the source for the programmable
Vdd supply, which is linearly regulated based on a analog voltage filtered
from a PWM output of the control processor.

The second produces about 17V that the programmable Vpp is linearly
regulated from.  The same processor that controls the 17V supply also
wiggles a pin regularly to run a charge pump to make a small low current
negative voltage used as the negative supply of the opamps.  There is no
such thing as a true rail to rail opamp.  With a little negative voltage you
don't have to worry about that, and the opamp still has a little drive left
at 0V out.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2006\12\01@151206 by peter green

flavicon
face

> IIRC worts-case USB voltage can be too low to power the
> pic-under-programming directly.
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
my programmer requires the target to be self powered (i did try in an early prototype powering the target off usb but resets of the programmer whenever i plugged the target in made me decide this was a bad idea), but the pic in the programmer could be an issue.

I could probablly run the programmer firmware at a lower clock but i never got arround to actually trying that.



2006\12\01@172531 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> > IIRC worts-case USB voltage can be too low to power the
> > pic-under-programming directly.
> >
> > Wouter van Ooijen
> my programmer requires the target to be self powered (i did
> try in an early prototype powering the target off usb but
> resets of the programmer whenever i plugged the target in
> made me decide this was a bad idea), but the pic in the
> programmer could be an issue.
>
> I could probablly run the programmer firmware at a lower
> clock but i never got arround to actually trying that.

what would that solve? the Vdd requirement for programming is not
clock-dependent.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\12\01@173700 by peter green

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face


{Quote hidden}

the Vdd requirement for the target is a non issue because the target is not powered by the programmer

the Vdd requirement for the pic in the programmer may be an issue though with suckier USB ports (though it's never to my knowlage been a problem in practice)



2006\12\01@180655 by Nate Duehr

face
flavicon
face
Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> J.Bakshi skrev:
>> Hi list,
>>
>> could any one suggest me a PIC burner for USB ?

Blowtorch works well.

Nate

2006\12\02@104458 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 04:41:10PM +0100, Jan-Erik S?derholm wrote:
> J.Bakshi skrev:
> > Hi list,
> >
> > could any one suggest me a PIC burner for USB ?
>
> I guess you want a *programmer*, right ?
>
> Maybe an RS232 programmer and an USB->RS232 converter.
> They (the converters) can be found pretty cheap now.
> By including serial programmers also, you get a lot
> more to select from.

Just be aware that a serial programmer that needs modem control signals
(like the JDM) may not work with a USB-serial converter.

BAJ

2006\12\02@123530 by Anand Dhuru

flavicon
face
>
> Just be aware that a serial programmer that needs modem control signals
> (like the JDM) may not work with a USB-serial converter.
>
Indeed, they do not. I've tried.

I then built one found here, http://www.coolcircuit.com/project/picprog/ and
have had no problems with any device since.

I have even used this with a notebook 3.3 volt parallel port. It works fine.
Perhaps on account of the pullups on the parallel port side of the buffer?

Regards,

Anand

2006\12\02@125843 by peter green

flavicon
face

> I have even used this with a notebook 3.3 volt parallel port. It
> works fine.
> Perhaps on account of the pullups on the parallel port side of the buffer?
i suspect it would have worked even without those as long as the buffer chip you used was either TTL or TTL compatible cmos (the diagram just says 7407 but i somewhat doubt that is literally what you used)


2006\12\02@201723 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 12/2/06, Olin Lathrop <olin_piclistspamKILLspamembedinc.com> wrote:
> Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> > IIRC worts-case USB voltage can be too low to power the
> > pic-under-programming directly.
>
> Correct, and is also something Micochip seems to have forgotten when they
> designed the PICKit2.  In fact I was at a PICKit2 class at masters this
> summer and the Microchip guy teaching it was actually saying that USB power
> was "5 volts", which is above the 4.5V required for bulk erase.  That's just
> plain wrong.  The PICKit2 may be OK for hobbyists, but it's a lot more quick
> and dirty than people seem to realize.  The problem is that it does work
> most of the time, so it's hard to convince people there is anything wrong
> with it.

I have to agree with you here even though I like my PICKit 2. There is something
wrong with it but most often it can be worked around. In general, PICkit 2
can not program 16F7x7 properly from time to time. This is exactly because
of the low Vdd required for bulk erase. The solution is to use an external
5V supply. The protection of PICKit 2 is getting better but there is still
a risk to blow the PICKit 2 because of over current (short circuits in the
target board).

> The power issues is one reason my USBProg has more parts than the PICKit2.
> It actually has three switching power supplies run from two 10F204s.

Then it will be a much better programmer in term of hardware. However
I think the major problem with programmers from small companies is the
software. Device support in general is slower. I think PICKit2's chip support
is quite good now. They will probably support dsPIC30F/33F next.

Another thing will be the price. PICkit 2 (programmer only) costs
US$35+shipment. If you double the price, then the hobbyists will need
to think twice before committing to USBprog even if it is better. For
professional, I think ProProg/Promater III is the way to go. All those
cheaper programmer like PICkit 2/ICD2/PS+ are really not meant for
mass production usage. Actually Promate III is not really that good...

Xiaofan

2006\12\03@012107 by Anand Dhuru

flavicon
face
cmos (the diagram just says 7407 but i somewhat doubt that is literally what
you used)

Actually, I did.

Another difference from the classic parallel port programmer I notice here
is that the clock & data lines are always pulled up to +5, while in other
designs (like the Epic) they are pulled up to the switched 5 volts.

Regards,

Anand




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