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PICList Thread
'[PIC] bootloading problem'
2006\10\03@025118 by Binu Pillai

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Hello
    I am haveing some problem with bootloading which i am not able to resolve.I am able to bootload into a board with PIC16F877 DIP package without any problem. In another board with the same design but all package being surface mount and 16F877 in PLCC package i am not able to bootload. what could be the reason and the problem.
looking fwd to a positive response

Regards
Kancee

2006\10\03@033158 by stef mientki

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Binu Pillai wrote:
>  
> Hello
>      I am haveing some problem with bootloading which i am not able to resolve.I am able to bootload into a board with PIC16F877 DIP package without any problem. In another board with the same design but all package being surface mount and 16F877 in PLCC package i am not able to bootload. what could be the reason and the problem.
> looking fwd to a positive response
>
> Regards
> Kancee
>  
which bootloader ?
what doesn't work, a few things I can think of:
 - uploader can't reset the PIC
 - PIC isn't responding to the ping of the bootloader
 - transfer of data gives errors (wrong checksum, other transmission
errors)
I've used several bootloaders, with all kinds of 877(A) in all kind of
packages and never saw any problems.
Stef

2006\10\03@034257 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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stef mientki wrote :

> what doesn't work, a few things I can think of:
>   - uploader can't reset the PIC
>   - PIC isn't responding to the ping of the bootloader
>   - transfer of data gives errors (wrong checksum,
>     other transmission errors)

Or simply "no bootloader loaded".

Jan-Erik.



2006\10\03@055744 by Binu Pillai

picon face
Hello
   I was using PicDown, and was resetting manually. but it says serching for bootloader.UART is working fine as i loaded another program and there is no problem with the communication.
can u give me the set of bootloader s/w and the hex for 4Mhz that you have used and works
Binu

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 stef mientki wrote :
{Quote hidden}

>

2006\10\03@055942 by Binu Pillai

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 Hello
    bootloader hex was loaded...uart works fine...manually resetted...everything fine...infact i had done this so many times with the other DIP package.
Binu


On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote :
{Quote hidden}

2006\10\03@061040 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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Binu Pillai wrote :

> Hello
> bootloader hex was loaded...
> uart works fine...
> manually resetted...
> everything fine...
> infact i had done this so many times with the other DIP package.

OK, fine.
So what is the difference between your DIP and your SMD
design then ?

(You might want to try to express yourself a little more
clearly, one could read your post as if "everything fine"
*when* it's "manually resetted". But I'm not sure that
that was what you ment...)

B.t.w, exactly what *is* "everything" in "everything fine" ??

Jan-Erik.



2006\10\03@064204 by Binu Pillai

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Sorry jan
   everything fine ment as far as h/d is concerned everything is fine. and i suppose if it is possible to communicate through the UART it should be possible to bootload through the same UART. The only change is the Package...I have made 6 boards and none of them have responded to the Bootloading when i tried.

binu

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote :
{Quote hidden}

2006\10\03@071452 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I am able to bootload into a board with PIC16F877 DIP package
>without any problem.

Fine.

>In another board with the same design but all package being
>surface mount and 16F877 in PLCC package i am not able to
>bootload. what could be the reason and the problem.

1. Are you sure it is an F877, and not an F877A - they have different
programming algorithms.

2. There are other subtle differences in the chip internals that may require
modifications to the boot loader. Microchip do have a document that gives
the differences between the two chips.

2006\10\03@091107 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Binu Pillai wrote:

> everything fine ment as far as h/d is concerned everything is fine. and i
> suppose if it is possible to communicate through the UART it should be
> possible to bootload through the same UART. The only change is the
> Package...I have made 6 boards and none of them have responded to the
> Bootloading when i tried.

Can you program the SMD processor somehow (like using ICSP)?

Gerhard

2006\10\04@055319 by Binu Pillai

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 Hello
   Yes am i am using an F877 and not F877a just because of the same reason of slight diffrence in the boot loading(4 word write). still not getting it to start



On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 Alan B.Pearce wrote :
{Quote hidden}

2006\10\04@055610 by Binu Pillai

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Hello
 i havnt given the option in this board to be connected to the ICD, thinking that Bootloading would work.
if anyone has a bootloading hex and bootloading app which has been tested on a PLCC package it would be nice if they could share it with me...



On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 Gerhard Fiedler wrote :
{Quote hidden}

2006\10\04@064945 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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Binu Pillai wrote :

>  i havnt given the option in this board to be connected
> to the ICD, thinking that Bootloading would work.

OK, and how is the bootloader *itself* loaded into the PIC ??

Jan-Erik.



2006\10\04@065447 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>i havnt given the option in this board to be connected to the ICD,
>thinking that Bootloading would work.
> if anyone has a bootloading hex and bootloading app which has been
>tested on a PLCC package it would be nice if they could share it with me...

Umm, how are you getting the bootloader into the chip to start with? How are
you connecting the programmer to do this?

2006\10\04@081400 by Binu Pillai

picon face
 Hello
   I have an adapter with PLCC base on top and 40 pin bottom...using that i program( bootloading code) the comtroller on a pic start.Then i remove the controller from the adaptor and put it on to the PLCC base on the board. Then i try to boot load it dosnt work.then again i took it out and programmed it to test the RX TX and put it back on the board ....the UART works fine...then again i loaded the bootloader code and replaced it on the board...but again the bootloading fails to work..
 now wat could be the reason.

.......


On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote :
{Quote hidden}

2006\10\04@084257 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I have an adapter with PLCC base on top and 40 pin bottom...
>using that i program( bootloading code) the comtroller on a
>pic start.

Fine. I take it the Picstart can read back the code that has been programmed
correctly?

>Then i remove the controller from the adaptor and put it on
>to the PLCC base on the board.

So I take it you have a PLCC socket on the destination PCB. Are all the pins
of the socket soldered correctly? Are the springy contacts that connect the
chip all OK?

>Then i try to boot load it dosnt work.then again i took it out
>and programmed it to test the RX TX and put it back on the
>board ....the UART works fine...

So this is a totally different program that just tests the serial interface
?
What does it send out that you know it is working?
How do you know it can receive?

>then again i loaded the bootloader code and replaced it on the
>board...but again the bootloading fails to work..
>  now wat could be the reason.

In what way does the bootloader fail. Does it just not communicate with the
host at all, or does it communicate, but fail to download code?

2006\10\04@095723 by Binu Pillai

picon face
 


On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 Alan B.Pearce wrote :
> >I have an adapter with PLCC base on top and 40 pin bottom...
> >using that i program( bootloading code) the comtroller on a
> >pic start.
>
>Fine. I take it the Picstart can read back the code that has been programmed
>correctly?
yes i read back and also verified the code in the IC..its fine
>
> >Then i remove the controller from the adaptor and put it on
> >to the PLCC base on the board.
>
>So I take it you have a PLCC socket on the destination PCB. Are all the pins
>of the socket soldered correctly? Are the springy contacts that connect the
>chip all OK?
>
yes hardware is good.
> >Then i try to boot load it dosnt work.then again i took it out
> >and programmed it to test the RX TX and put it back on the
> >board ....the UART works fine...
>
>So this is a totally different program that just tests the serial interface
>?
yes i loaded a programme to transmitte 1,2,3....increasing order after every second.
and another program that sends out 79 when i trasmit 24 from the PC
to test both RX and TX
>What does it send out that you know it is working?
>How do you know it can receive?
>
> >then again i loaded the bootloader code and replaced it on the
> >board...but again the bootloading fails to work..
> >  now wat could be the reason.
>
>In what way does the bootloader fail. Does it just not communicate with the
>host at all, or does it communicate, but fail to download code?
>
one board it starts then says time out. for all the attempts i made.
in all other board "searching for bootloader"

2006\10\04@122406 by stef mientki

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face

> yes i loaded a programme to transmitte 1,2,3....increasing order after every second.
> and another program that sends out 79 when i trasmit 24 from the PC
> to test both RX and TX
>  
did you check at the same baudrate as the bootloader is working ?
did you try to send/receive complete strings ?
>>    
> one board it starts then says time out. for all the attempts i made.
> in all other board "searching for bootloader"
>  
Could be a bad baudrate ...
See my questions above.
Stef

2006\10\05@025945 by Binu Pillai

picon face
 
yeh baud was checked it was fine too

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 stef mientki wrote :
{Quote hidden}

2006\10\05@041434 by Stef Mientki

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face


Binu Pillai wrote:

>  
>yeh baud was checked it was fine too
>  
>
ok now check the protocol,
tie 2 commports to the Tx and Rx lines
and watch with something like hypertirminal what's happening.
Stef

{Quote hidden}

>>-

2006\10\05@042807 by Binu Pillai

picon face
 
Hello
   when i loaded a program to see if RX TX of UART and it works fine...i am able to transmit and recieve data from the board


On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 Stef Mientki wrote :
{Quote hidden}

> >>--

2006\10\10@101819 by alan smith

picon face
lets see...
 
 load code that tests the UART...appears to work.  That means (since there is not an internal osc) the clock is running, reset is not holding it down, and for all general purposes its working.
 
 Now, load new code that works on a DIP package, but not a PLCC? odd.....
 
 If you have control of the bootloader source, tack on some code right after init to send out data thru the UART.  You assume that the UART is working but this at least would test that theory as well as inicating the processor is running.

               
---------------------------------
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2006\10\10@110308 by Pearce, AB (Alan)

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part 1 973 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded quoted-printable)



>lets see...
>
>  load code that tests the UART...appears to work.  That means (since there is not an internal
>osc) the clock is running, reset is not holding it down, and for all general purposes its working.
>  >  Now, load new code that works on a DIP package, but not a PLCC? odd.....
>  >  If you have control of the bootloader source, tack on some code right after init to send out
>data thru the UART.  You assume that the UART is working but this at least would test that
>theory as well as inicating the processor is running.


OK, whose bootloader is it?
If it is one you wrote, then I think that there is at least one un-initialised variable somewhere, and the power up state of the DIP chip happens to have the appropriate register power up in a suitable state, but the TQFP chip is probably a different production batch that has different power up values in the registers.



part 2 3703 bytes content-type:application/ms-tnef; (decode)

part 3 35 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
(decoded 7bit)

2006\10\10@111635 by Vasile Surducan

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On 3 Oct 2006 09:54:41 -0000, Binu Pillai <spam_OUTbinu_s_pillaiTakeThisOuTspamrediffmail.com> wrote:
> Hello
>    I was using PicDown,

Please post a complete link to this bootloader.

If all 6 board fail to bootload it probably means you have a hardware
mistake on the PCB.

Vasile

2006\10\30@044538 by Binu Pillai

picon face
 
Hello All
  Had some problem with Bootloading,but now its soarted out...:)
Now one more thing that i want is a bootloading s/w that can be initiated through a command line...
  How difficult is it to make a s/w in VB to do the same.
  where can i get the details of the same...on how to design an application.

Binu

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