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'[PIC] bootloader for 16F628A?'
2008\04\27@022649 by Bill VanOrden

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I have a small project which may need the PIC to be reprogrammed on
occasion.   The device will not be in my location and mailing chips back and
forth is something I want to avoid.  The person at the other end does not
have nor can operate a re-programmer



Looking through the FAQ's I find multiple references to the 16F877 series
but nothing on the PIC I am using.



I am NOT conversant with serial port programming and could use a "recipe" to
accomplish this.

Beevo (aka Bill VanOrden)

2008\04\27@030918 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> Looking through the FAQ's I find multiple references to the 16F877 series
> but nothing on the PIC I am using.

I find it easiest when the subject line is not needed to understand a
message, so maybe you should repeat the chip name in the body: 16F628A.

That chip can't write its own code memory, which makes a bootloader
'difficult'.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2008\04\27@042640 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Wouter van Ooijen <spam_OUTwouterTakeThisOuTspamvoti.nl> wrote:
> > Looking through the FAQ's I find multiple references to the 16F877 series
> > but nothing on the PIC I am using.
>
> I find it easiest when the subject line is not needed to understand a
> message, so maybe you should repeat the chip name in the body: 16F628A.
>
> That chip can't write its own code memory, which makes a bootloader
> 'difficult'.
>

I was going to reply it is impossible since it is so called standard flash
PIC which can not write its own code memory.

Just wondering why you say it is "difficult" and not "impossible"?
Where do you see the possibility to implement the bootloader
function with 16F628A?

Xiaofan

2008\04\27@043900 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Wouter van Ooijen <.....wouterKILLspamspam@spam@voti.nl> wrote:
>>> Looking through the FAQ's I find multiple references to the 16F877 series
>>> but nothing on the PIC I am using.
>> I find it easiest when the subject line is not needed to understand a
>> message, so maybe you should repeat the chip name in the body: 16F628A.
>>
>> That chip can't write its own code memory, which makes a bootloader
>> 'difficult'.
>>
>
> I was going to reply it is impossible since it is so called standard flash
> PIC which can not write its own code memory.
>
> Just wondering why you say it is "difficult" and not "impossible"?

I guess he could just as well have written "'interesting'",
"'a challange'" or something like that. Of course it still
doesn't meen that it actualy works...


> Where do you see the possibility to implement the bootloader
> function with 16F628A?
>
> Xiaofan

2008\04\27@045406 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Just wondering why you say it is "difficult" and not "impossible"?
> Where do you see the possibility to implement the bootloader
> function with 16F628A?

Note that I said "'difficult'", not "difficult". It was meant as a joke.

The only bootload-like thing you can do on a 16F628A is to store an
interpreter in the Flash and the program-to-be-interpreted in EEPROM.
IIRC there are basic-stamp clones that do this.


--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2008\04\27@050208 by Apptech

face
flavicon
face
>>> That chip can't write its own code memory, which makes a
>>> bootloader
>>> 'difficult'.

>> Just wondering why you say it is "difficult" and not
>> "impossible"?

That's
           'difficult'
as opposed to
           difficult.

And if he had written impossible, it would have been written

           impossible

and not

           "impossible".

ie the 'difficult' is intended to be seen as a droll
understatement whereas impossible would just be a statement
of (approximate) fact.

This is in the same sense that eg Robocop says something
like.
" Lay down your weapon within 10 seconds or there will be
'problems'.   "

ie the parenthesising of a diminutive or less than
impossible term in a situation where it is generally felt
that there is no solution is intended to convey wry humour.

Similar intention can also be done without quotes

   Adidas:        "Impossible is nothing!"

The 'nothing' would best be accompanied by a shake of the
head and a dismissive wave of the hand :-).

_______________

In the case in question an eg serial input ISP using a
seperate eg PIC as a programmer could be implemented to meet
his need. The chances of this being a better solution than a
change of main processor is small.




       Russell


2008\04\27@050922 by Jinx

face picon face
> store an interpreter in the Flash and the program-to-be-interpreted
> in EEPROM. IIRC there are basic-stamp clones that do this

PICAXE for one

Bill, a re-design maybe, using a bootloadable PIC ?

Or, instead of re-programming the whole chip, could this application
be written to use parameters in EEPROM ?

2008\04\27@074900 by Funny NYPD

picon face
You should be able to use the "Programmer-To-Go" feature on PICkit 2.
Or any device can do the ICSP programming.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com



{Original Message removed}

2008\04\27@092317 by Byron Jeff

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face
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 02:26:25AM -0400, Bill VanOrden wrote:

> I have a small project which may need the PIC to be reprogrammed on
> occasion.   The device will not be in my location and mailing chips back and
> forth is something I want to avoid.  The person at the other end does not
> have nor can operate a re-programmer
>
> but nothing on the PIC I am using.

A 16F628A. It cannot rewrite its program memory programmatically. So that
means you can't put a bootloader on that chip.

> I am NOT conversant with serial port programming and could use a "recipe" to
> accomplish this.

Bootloaders don't do serial port programming in the traditional sense. The
whole point of a bootloader is that the chip can program itself, and the
bootloader then can choose the appropriate interface for getting data into
the chip to be programmed. So you don't need to know the traditional
Micorchip serial programming algorithm, but the algorithm for self
programming the chip, which I remind you that the 16F628A cannot do.

The simplest solution is to upgrade your 16F628A to a 16F88. They are
virtually pin for pin compatible and the 16F88 can rewrite its own program
memory, making it bootloadable. Other 18 pin PIC in the family that can do
that are the 16F818/819.

Hope this helps,

BAJ

2008\04\27@122046 by Carl Denk

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face
Can the 18F1320 reprogram itself? I use both serial ports, but have
access either RS-232 or Fiber optic to both ports. If not reprogrammable
would there be another chip that is pin compatible?

Byron Jeff wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\04\27@130452 by Picbits Sales

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face
18F1320 is ideal for using as a bootloader.

In fact I've just finished a weeks worth of programming to sort out a custom
bootloader for a few of my products based on the 1320.

In fact - I can help you out even further - this chap has written a
bootloader which works on the 1320, its free, is only 100 words in size and
seems to work pretty well.

http://www.etc.ugal.ro/cchiculita/software/picbootloader.htm


Hope that helps
Dom
{Original Message removed}

2008\04\27@141928 by Carl Denk

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face
Thanks for the quick reply. Looks good, I downloaded, but might be a few
days until I get to it. Looks just like what I was looking for.

Picbits Sales wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2008\04\27@145513 by Funny NYPD

picon face
Most of the PIC18Fs are capable of self-writing the Flash. So bootloaders based on different communication protocols can be developed.
We have developed some for different customers, such as CAN (controller Area Network) protocol based, SAE-J1708/RS485 protocol based, and RS232 based. Some enhanced feature such as encryption are also provided. Here are the links:
http://www.auelectronics.com/Software.htm
www.auelectronics.com/Software-BTLD_RS232.htm
www.auelectronics.com/Software-BTLD_485.htm
http://www.auelectronics.com/Software-BTLD_CAN.htm

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com



----- Original Message ----
From: Carl Denk <cdenkspamKILLspamalltel.net>
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <.....piclistKILLspamspam.....mit.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:18:25 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC] bootloader for 16F628A?

Thanks for the quick reply. Looks good, I downloaded, but might be a few
days until I get to it. Looks just like what I was looking for.

Picbits Sales wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

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