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'[PIC] What have you designed using PIC?'
2002\11\06@155634 by Jinx

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Micro Eng" <spam_OUTmicro_engTakeThisOuTspamHOTMAIL.COM>
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Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: [PICLIST] What have you designed using PIC?


> hey...any details on the christmas rope? time is approaching...

Try a chaser.......

http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/joecolquitt/0chaser.html

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2002\11\06@163203 by hard Prosser

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I'm just not too sure on the safety of the system, Jinx.
The bulbs are connected directly to AC so they would need suitable physical
protection - how have you organised that?

RP




{Original Message removed}

2002\11\06@192736 by Jinx

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> I'm just not too sure on the safety of the system, Jinx.
> The bulbs are connected directly to AC so they would need
> suitable physical protection - how have you organised that?
>
> RP

I presume this is what you're talking about -

The strings used where sheathed in clear heat-shrink tubing. But
many 240V strings available off the shelf don't have even that
protection - the bulbs are bare and as they have passed all the
regs and been deemed fit for sale I guess you take the same risk
that you would with any exposed conductor. Obviously it's not the
intention to make something dangerous, but accidents and stupid
human tricks do happen

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2002\11\07@102331 by ards, Justin P

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Since stupid human was mentioned below i just had to share my story...

When i was quite young I thought I knew a bit about things electrical, so
nearing xmas the tree was up and the lights were yet to work.

So fresh out of the swimming pool, still wet and sitting on a concrete floor
I thought it was time to fix em.

I read the voltage on the bulbs, 14volts.  Ahh I thought that cant hurt me
so I began to insert wires so i could work out which bulb was open circuit.

Yes you guessed, I got a very good 240v shock, but i think the bigger shock
was that my assessment was soooo wrong.

Took me many years before i discovered exactly why i got booted.

Justin

PS Have had many a failed argument with some electrical professionals when I
tell my story and state that if you remove 1 14v bulb from daisy chained
xmas lights and measure across the 2 contacts in the light socket with a
voltmeter it will read 240v.

{Original Message removed}

2002\11\07@110218 by 4HAZ

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----- From: "Richards, Justin P" <Justin.Richards@
- snip -
> PS Have had many a failed argument with some electrical professionals when I
> tell my story and state that if you remove 1 14v bulb from daisy chained
> xmas lights and measure across the 2 contacts in the light socket with a
> voltmeter it will read 240v.

Voltage readings in series are dependant on the circuits total voltage (Et), total current (It), and the resistance of the meter, any good VTVM or high impedance meter would have shown the full voltage, however an old circuit powered meter is a low impedance device. (It) times (meter resistance) = voltage read.

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2002\11\07@114740 by William Chops Westfield

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   any good VTVM or high impedance meter would have shown the full voltage,
   however an old circuit powered meter is a low impedance device.

Hmm.  A raw circuit-powered analog meter is a "low impedance device"
compared to a modern digital voltmeter, but I'll bet most are still rather
high-impedance compared to a string of 14V light bulbs, so you'll probably
still read pretty close to 240V at your "missing bulb" location.  IIRC, my
last analog meter had an impedence of about 10k ohms (or was that 10k
ohms/volt of range?)

BillW

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2002\11\07@122546 by Jim

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It *would* be  10k or (20 K) ohms/volt of range for
DC - more like 5K/Volt on the AC ranges.

So, on the 300 V range figure figure:

  300 * 5,000 = 1.5 MOhm input R

Test:

I just checked (actually measured it!) this on my old
Trtplett 630 (on the 300 v range) and this bears out
(it's true!) ...

RF Jim


{Original Message removed}

2002\11\07@152251 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Richards, Justin P wrote:

*>PS Have had many a failed argument with some electrical professionals when I
*>tell my story and state that if you remove 1 14v bulb from daisy chained
*>xmas lights and measure across the 2 contacts in the light socket with a
*>voltmeter it will read 240v.

The professionals may have been right if the ligts were modern and had
vdrs in the sockets. These prevent the whole string to go off if a bulb
blows and also equalise voltage while running.

Peter

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2002\11\07@191833 by ards, Justin P

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what is vdrs?
Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter L. Peres [KILLspamplpKILLspamspamACTCOM.CO.IL]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 03:49
To: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC] What have you designed using PIC?


On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Richards, Justin P wrote:

*>PS Have had many a failed argument with some electrical professionals when
I
*>tell my story and state that if you remove 1 14v bulb from daisy chained
*>xmas lights and measure across the 2 contacts in the light socket with a
*>voltmeter it will read 240v.

The professionals may have been right if the ligts were modern and had
vdrs in the sockets. These prevent the whole string to go off if a bulb
blows and also equalise voltage while running.

Peter

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2002\11\08@114917 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Richards, Justin P wrote:

*>what is vdrs?

Voltage Dependent Resistors (aka MOV or Metal Oxide Varistors).

Peter

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2002\11\10@052955 by Roman Black

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Hee hee! Sounds like Darwinism at work...
Some species emerge from the water and then
continue evolving, some emerge and, well... <grin>
-Roman


Richards, Justin P wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\11\11@100832 by 4HAZ

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----- From: "William Chops Westfield" <billw@

>     any good VTVM or high impedance meter would have shown the full voltage,
>     however an old circuit powered meter is a low impedance device.
>
> Hmm.  A raw circuit-powered analog meter is a "low impedance device"
> compared to a modern digital voltmeter, but I'll bet most are still rather
> high-impedance compared to a string of 14V light bulbs, so you'll probably
> still read pretty close to 240V at your "missing bulb" location.  IIRC, my
> last analog meter had an impedence of about 10k ohms (or was that 10k
> ohms/volt of range?)
>
> BillW
We do not know the bulbs were 14v, only that that was the reading.
You are probably referring to 10K ohms per volt, the little $7 meters from Radio Shack were 1K ohms per volt which would mean 15k ohms on the 15 volt scale.
There are still many old 600 ohm meters floating around the surplus market, I have one and trust it more when working around high power R.F. because it is less susceptible to giving false readings in that environment.
There are several unknowns here, 1 meter impedance, 2 whether his reading was taken with a blown bulb in series with the meter (a high impedance meter can show several volts in this configuration if there is moisture across the blown bulb, or he had a finger on one of the probes providing a hi-Z Ground path), the total power, and # of bulbs.

Lonnie - KF4HAZ -

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