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PICList Thread
'[PIC] What chip 2nd round'
2005\11\08@202350 by R. I. Nelson

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further Questions

So if I program in basic and compile it, Where do I get a compiler,
what's the cost?

Where can I get data sheets on the different  chips?

Any good web sites that will help?

Best place to buy chips?



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2005\11\08@205215 by Rolf

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R. I. Nelson wrote:
> further Questions
>
> So if I program in basic and compile it, Where do I get a compiler,
> what's the cost?
Hmmm. not sure. Try this http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/?q=PIC+BASIC
>
> Where can I get data sheets on the different  chips?
Try this: http://www.microchip.com
>
> Any good web sites that will help?
>
Try this: http://www.microchip.com
> Best place to buy chips?
>

Try this: http://www.microchip.com

Rolf

P.S. Apologies for the URL in the first response. Not my idea... ;-)

2005\11\08@223946 by Mike Hord

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> So if I program in basic and compile it, Where do I get a compiler,
> what's the cost?

I use Melabs's PICBasic Pro.  They do have an online compiler,
limited in capability, but available to check it out.

Olin has a development environment which, AIUI, has some very
useful macros.  Not BASIC, but I'd try and avoid high level
languages at first.  You'll get a better feel for the usage of
chip-level resources if you start out with assembly.

> Where can I get data sheets on the different  chips?

Microchip has a datasheet lookup page on the main page.

> Any good web sites that will help?

http://www.voti.nl - Wouter's webpage.  His HLL, JAL, could
be a good place to start.  It's not BASIC, but not too tough.
http://www.embedinc.com/pic/ - Olin's webpage.

> Best place to buy chips?

Too many options.  I like Digikey; they have an outstanding
selection and ship to me next day at ground rates (only
because I'm so close!), but have a minimum order of $25.
buy.microchip.com is a good option; Microchip also sends
free samples to worthy customers.  Mouser sells some, as
does Jameco.  Jameco's a good choice, especially if you're
aiming to buy other parts as well, because from Jameco
you'll order a 5%, 10k, .25 watt resistor, whereas from
Digikey, you'll have half a dozen different manufacturers'
offerings to sort through, for the same basic product.

I guess I'd say Jameco, overall, for the hobbiest.

Mike H.

2005\11\08@233235 by Anand Dhuru

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Hord" <.....mike.hordKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistspamKILLspammit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC] What chip 2nd round


{Quote hidden}

I would suggest

http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/english/product/books/PICbook/picbook.htm

and if you decide to go the Basic way (and I think you should),

http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/english/product/books/picbasicbook/00.htm
on the same site.

Regards,

Anand

2005\11\10@122255 by sdryga

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>From: R. I. Nelson <rindesigns <at> charter.net>
>Subject: [PIC] What chip 2nd round

>further Questions
>
>So if I program in basic and compile it, Where do I get a compiler,
>what's the cost?
>
>Where can I get data sheets on the different  chips?
>
>Any good web sites that will help?
>
>Best place to buy chips?

I would recommend http://beaglerobotics.com to buy chips - I have
PIC16F87* and 16F628a at reasonable price, plus easy and inexpensive
development board.

---
Sergey A Dryga
Beagle Robotics, LLC
http://www.piclist.com/member/SD-nc-JB
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com

2005\11\10@143750 by sergio masci

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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005, R. I. Nelson wrote:

> further Questions
>
> So if I program in basic and compile it, Where do I get a compiler, what's the
> cost?

XCSB from http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XCSB

LITE edition is free for personal non-commercial use. Code size limitted
to 1900 words. Some type restrictions (e.g. floating point available as a
sample feature - you get to define 3 floating point variables and use
only these for floating point maths).

Standard edition is GBP 50. Still personal non-commercial license but no
code limit and no floating point limit (other restrictions apply).
Includes many libraries as source. Comes with bootloader for 16F88 and
16F87x

Professional edition is GBP 150. Licensed for commercial use. No type
restrictions. Includes many libraries as source.

> Any good web sites that will help?

place to visit http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XCSB/CONTRIB

forum is at http://www.xcsb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi


Regards
Sergio Masci

http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XCSB - optimising PIC compiler
FREE for personal non-commercial use

2005\11\10@144945 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> I would recommend http://beaglerobotics.com to buy chips - I have
> PIC16F87* and 16F628a at reasonable price, plus easy and inexpensive
> development board.

I have not checked the PIC prices, but the price op those Tact switches
seems a bit high: 3 for $1! I sell 50 for $2.40.

Looking further: LEDs for $0.27 is rediculous (but apparently they are
LEDs with a build-in resistor), but a 40x2 LCD for $8.45 is a very good
price. IC socket prices seem too high, but they don't state whether they
are round-pin (better quality) or straight-pin (cheap). PIC price seem
to be OK. Solderless breadbord is overpriced.

I am a shop myself, so don't take my words as unbiased.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\11\10@212115 by Sergey Dryga

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Wouter van Ooijen <wouter <at> voti.nl> writes:

>
> > I would recommend http://beaglerobotics.com to buy chips - I have
> > PIC16F87* and 16F628a at reasonable price, plus easy and inexpensive
> > development board.
>
> I have not checked the PIC prices, but the price op those Tact switches
> seems a bit high: 3 for $1! I sell 50 for $2.40.
>
> Looking further: LEDs for $0.27 is rediculous (but apparently they are
> LEDs with a build-in resistor), but a 40x2 LCD for $8.45 is a very good
> price. IC socket prices seem too high, but they don't state whether they
> are round-pin (better quality) or straight-pin (cheap). PIC price seem
> to be OK. Solderless breadbord is overpriced.
>
> I am a shop myself, so don't take my words as unbiased.
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>


Hi Wouter,

Thanks for comments, I agree with some and disagree with others.
Just to clarify things:
LEDs for $0.27 do seem ridiculous, until one realizes these are 5V leds, no
need to use a current-limiting resistor.  They are very convenient for
prototyping.
LCD - I agree, it is a good deal.
Solderless breadboard is a custom made board, that's why it costs $17.95.  
just the parts for it cost over $22 at Jameco! Seems to me a fair deal at
$17.95.
Tact switches - 3 for $1 is OK price in US, at least most other places sell
for more.  These are not surplus, but rather high quality stock from
distributor.  BTW, your price is EUR2.50 for 50 switches, not USD2.40.

I am impressed with your website, nice work.
Although I am interested in advertising my webshop, I will not post any more
replies on this topic, it is not really a a place for such discussion.  I
would be glad to continue it off line though.  

Sergey

2005\11\11@031811 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Thanks for comments, I agree with some and disagree with others.
> Just to clarify things:
> LEDs for $0.27 do seem ridiculous, until one realizes these
> are 5V leds, no need to use a current-limiting resistor.  They are
very
> convenient for prototyping.

- you might want to advertise them more clearly as such: I could not
find this on the LED/LED/LCD page. It is on the indvidual pages, but you
must get the idea to click on the picture to get there (and it is not
visible that the picture is a link)

- for LEDs with buil-in R I have no idea what's a normal price, but
peronally I doubt their usefullness at that price. But if you do sell
them there are obviously people that disagree with me :)

> Solderless breadboard is a custom made board, that's why it
> costs $17.95.  
> just the parts for it cost over $22 at Jameco! Seems to me a
> fair deal at $17.95.

Ah, after clicking through I see it has some more power strips than I
guessed from the first picture. That makes the price about right.

> Tact switches - 3 for $1 is OK price in US, at least most
> other places sell for more.  

Maybe they are top top quality, but I still think it's a bit pricey.

> These are not surplus, but rather high quality stock from
> distributor.  BTW, your price is EUR2.50 for 50 switches, not USD2.40.

Pricing in my wesbhop can be a bit confusing: I have different prices
for E and $, bank transfer and paypal, and including and excluding VAT
(EC sales tax). For a USA customer I think the $-paypal-exVAT price is
relevant. I don't know how you get E 2.5o, but probably some combination
will work that way.

> I am impressed with your website, nice work.

One thing the Beaglebot site has right (and I don't!) is that you can
bookmark all pages.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\11\11@054406 by Vasile Surducan

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On 11/14/05, Wouter van Ooijen <.....wouterKILLspamspam.....voti.nl> wrote:
> > I would recommend http://beaglerobotics.com to buy chips - I have
> > PIC16F87* and 16F628a at reasonable price, plus easy and inexpensive
> > development board.
>
> I have not checked the PIC prices, but the price op those Tact switches
> seems a bit high: 3 for $1! I sell 50 for $2.40.
>
> Looking further: LEDs for $0.27 is rediculous (but apparently they are
> LEDs with a build-in resistor), but a 40x2 LCD for $8.45 is a very good
> price.

Hi Wouter,
Then buy yourself a few pieces next time when you've got the PCB's from Olimex.
Comet has a shop in Bulgaria too (or in Romania).
But I don't recommend these cheap LCD's untill you'll check the
viewing angle on a few samples first.

cheers,
Vasile

2005\11\11@072300 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> but a 40x2 LCD for $8.45 is a very good price.
>
> Then buy yourself a few pieces next time when you've got the
> PCB's from Olimex.
> Comet has a shop in Bulgaria too (or in Romania).
> But I don't recommend these cheap LCD's untill you'll check the
> viewing angle on a few samples first.

When I said 'very good price' that was as price for an end user. That is
roughly the price for which I would sell, so when I buy it must be
substantially cheaper!

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\11\11@192522 by William Chops Westfield

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On Nov 11, 2005, at 4:23 AM, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

> When I said 'very good price' that was as price for an end user. That
> is
> roughly the price for which I would sell, so when I buy it must be
> substantially cheaper!

There is substantial value to a 'retailer' focused on a particular
market segment, and providing nearly all the components for the
customers
in that market, even if their prices are somewhat (or even
substantially)
higher than the customer could get 'shopping around' at multiple
mid-level
distributers.  I think Wouter's site is a fine example of a 'retailer'
focused on PIC microcontroller experimentation, and Solarbotics is a
good example of a retailer focused on BEAM robotics (although they mark
up more than Wouter does...)  If the OP manages to build his site to a
good approximation of "one stop shopping" for the microcontroller-based
robot experimenters crowd, it will be a good thing, even if I can go
elsewhere and buy subsets of what I need at lower prices.  If your
target market tends to spend $20-30 at a time, that $4-7 minimum
realistic postage charge starts to look awfully big :-(

The contentious 3/$1 tactile switch is cheaper than  digikey or
Solarbotics  for similar switches in that quantity.  Wouter's price for
50, and his willingness to sell them in 1's for $0.10 is pretty
phenomenal for a 'retailer'...

BillW

2005\11\16@125425 by R. I. Nelson

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I did not wish for Mr. rolf to be removed from the list.  maybe just a
warning of improper use of words.

I try to do a google search first but the results are over-powering.  I
think on a search of  "pic  basic compiler"
I got 552,000 hits back.  It would take months or years to read the
info there.  I thought that that was what the piclist was all about for
beginners to get advice from the "old experienced  pros" so to speak.  I
would appreciate if  you would correct me if I am wrong.


James Newton, Host wrote:

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