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'[PIC] Using pickit 1 to program other picmicros'
2005\05\09@074132 by Kenasw

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I have a question about pickit1. Pickit1 can be used to programme several
baseline devices, as described in TB079. But why is it only extended to
baseline devices, is there any special reason why pickit1 could not be
used to programme all pic devices?

2005\05\09@111357 by Howard Winter

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On Mon, 9 May 2005 12:41:03 +0100, spam_OUTkenaswTakeThisOuTspambtinternet.com wrote:

> I have a question about pickit1. Pickit1 can be used to programme several
> baseline devices, as described in TB079. But why is it only extended to
> baseline devices, is there any special reason why pickit1 could not be
> used to programme all pic devices?

First there's the physical problem: the PICkit1 has a 14-pin socket, so anything bigger won't fit.

Secondly the software: You'll find that MPLAB won't let you tell it to use a PIC/programmer combination that
it thinks won't work - if you select (say) the PIC16F88 then PICkit1 will be greyed-out in the Programmer
selection.

You may be able to cobble together an ICSP connection to get round the physical problem, but the software
still won't play.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\05\09@115040 by Mark Rages

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On 5/9/05, Howard Winter <.....HDRWKILLspamspam@spam@h2org.demon.co.uk> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

You can use a different software.

For example I use this under Linux:
http://mlug.missouri.edu/~markrages/software/usb_pickit/

This software is in plain-old-C and links against the cross-platform
libusb.  It could be compiled for Windows.  It would be simple to
extend to program other devices, as long as the timing for programming
is similar to the 12F675 series.  Can a PIC programming expert comment
on this?

Please let me know of any patches you make to usb_pickit.

I rigged up a ICSP header by soldering wires to a 14-pin socket.  I
could have used the pickit's header for this purpose as well.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one.
 - fortune cookie

2005\05\09@120154 by Kenasw

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> > I have a question about pickit1. Pickit1 can be used to programme
several
> > baseline devices, as described in TB079. But why is it only extended to
> > baseline devices, is there any special reason why pickit1 could not be
> > used to programme all pic devices?
>
> First there's the physical problem: the PICkit1 has a 14-pin socket, so
anything bigger won't fit.

We use ICSP, put the pic in a breadboard, simply carry the wires from
the socket of pickit1 to our socket.

>
> Secondly the software: You'll find that MPLAB won't let you tell it to use
a PIC/programmer combination that
> it thinks won't work - if you select (say) the PIC16F88 then PICkit1 will
be greyed-out in the Programmer
> selection.

The programmer software source code is available on the microchip website.
The software could be modified therefore by a knowledgable person?

2005\05\09@132213 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> The programmer software source code is available on the
> microchip website.
> The software could be modified therefore by a knowledgable person?

This is a common misconception. The software can be modified by any
determined person with sufficient time. (quote: an invention is 90%
transpiration).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\05\09@174730 by Howard Winter

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Wouter,

On Mon, 9 May 2005 19:22:11 +0200, Wouter van Ooijen
wrote:

> quote: an invention is 90% transpiration

Only if the inventor is a plant!  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\05\09@185509 by Kenasw

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> > quote: an invention is 90% transpiration
>
> Only if the inventor is a plant!  :-)

This discussion seems to have shot off on a random tangent,
I guess I am on my own on this one...

cheers!

2005\05\09@192415 by Mark Rages

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On 5/9/05, Wouter van Ooijen <.....wouterKILLspamspam.....voti.nl> wrote:
> > The programmer software source code is available on the
> > microchip website.
> > The software could be modified therefore by a knowledgable person?
>
> This is a common misconception. The software can be modified by any
> determined person with sufficient time. (quote: an invention is 90%
> transpiration).
>
> Wouter van Ooijen

As someone who's tried to modify Xwisp, I can say that "sufficient
time" is unbounded for some projects.

(I ended up writing a Python PIC programmer when I was trying to
figure out the PicKit.  But the C version is faster and better for
real use)

Regards,
Mark
EraseMEmarkragesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com
--
You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one.
 - fortune cookie

2005\05\09@235820 by William Chops Westfield

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On May 9, 2005, at 10:22 AM, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

>> The software could be modified therefore by a knowledgable person?
>
> This is a common misconception. The software can be modified by any
> determined person with sufficient time.

Indeed; software can be modified more easily than written.  Sometimes.
I once modified a LISP program!  Shudder.  System utilities shouldn't
be written in LISP...

In this case, at least part of the programming algorithm is going to be
in the 16C745 on the pickit1 itself, and that will probably limit the
range of PICs you can program somewhat.

BillW

2005\05\10@001819 by Chen Xiao Fan

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Why not changed it to the new 18F USB parts (also need
to change the oscillator to 4Mhz or multiply of 4MHz)?

Then the limit code size of PIC16C745 will not be a limit
factor. Even better we can make use of the USB bootloader
so that the firmware can be updated.

Of course, this becomes a major project then.

Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\10@002358 by Chen Xiao Fan

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Yes it works in Ubuntu Linux, the static linked version just worked. I've
tried both the original version and your hacked version. Thanks a lot.

What are the new parts supported by your new version?

http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/olawlor/projects/2003/microchip (original
version)

http://mlug.missouri.edu/~markrages/software/usb_pickit/ (your new version)


Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\10@012753 by Mark Rages

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On 5/9/05, Chen Xiao Fan <xiaofanspamspam_OUTsg.pepperl-fuchs.com> wrote:
> Yes it works in Ubuntu Linux, the static linked version just worked. I've
> tried both the original version and your hacked version. Thanks a lot.
>
> What are the new parts supported by your new version?
>
> http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/olawlor/projects/2003/microchip (original
> version)
>
> http://mlug.missouri.edu/~markrages/software/usb_pickit/ (your new version)
>
> Xiaofan
>

The original only supports the 12F675 (or other chip with an identical
memory map).

My additions to the software attempt to support the following:
$ grep deviceName usb_pickit.c
        deviceName="12F629";
         deviceName="12F675";
         deviceName="16F630";
         deviceName="16F676";
         deviceName="16F635";
         deviceName="16F683";
         deviceName="16F636 / 16F639";
         deviceName="16F684";
         deviceName="16F685";
         deviceName="16F687";
         deviceName="16F688";
         deviceName="16F689";
         deviceName="16F690";

I am using 16F688 on my project.  Other parts have not been tested,
but I filled in values from the datasheet and they *should* work,
except for when I mistyped something.

If someone wants to try programming some other parts, it is not hard
to add devices.  Look for the big switch statement in usb_pickit.c or
just tell me what part you want to try and I'll add it for you.

I could also set up a cross-compiler to make Win32 versions, if
someone will commit to testing them for me.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one.
 - fortune cookie

2005\05\10@013231 by William Chops Westfield

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On May 9, 2005, at 9:18 PM, Chen Xiao Fan wrote:

> Why not changed it to the new 18F USB parts (also need
> to change the oscillator to 4Mhz or multiply of 4MHz)?
>

I think that would be a fine idea.  However, from what I've seen out of
the corner of my eye, people are having some problems translating C745
USB
applications to the 18F USB parts and the C-based environment microchip
seems
to be encouraging there...

BillW

2005\05\10@043846 by Chen Xiao Fan

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Thanks a lot for the information. I can test for you for both the windows
version and perhaps the Linux version as well (using Windows XP at work and
Windows XP/ Ubuntu Linux at home). I have access to quite some PICs right
now (16F819, 16F872/16F873A/876A/88, 10F206, 12F629/675/630, 12F508,
18F2550, 18F1320, 18F4620, etc). I think to support 16F87xA is nice to have.
The low end base line MCUs (10F20x,12F50x and16F5x) will also be nice to
support.

Best regards,
Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\10@045214 by Chen Xiao Fan

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By the way, how to compile your hacked version? I have problems
to compile both the Libusb (although Ubuntu comes with
precompiled LibUSB) and the usb_pickit.c application. I am sorry
but I am a Linux newbie (never used it seriously even though I
used Slackware 3.5 back in 1998) and knows very little about PC
host software programming (both Windows and Linux). Ubuntu 5.04 is
quite new and is based on Debian. Ubuntu is as good as Windows
XP right now for my other usages (browsing Internet and listening
to music) but not for PIC development. :(

Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\10@052712 by Kenasw

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Rages" <@spam@markragesKILLspamspamgmail.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <KILLspampiclistKILLspamspammit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC] Using pickit 1 to program other picmicros


> I could also set up a cross-compiler to make Win32 versions, if
> someone will commit to testing them for me.
>
> Regards,
> Mark

I would be interested in a win32 version, I can test it for you on
18fx455 and 18fx550. B.T.W, pickit1 software is on the
microchip site, simply do a search for pickit and you will find it.

Any idea why microchip upgraded the firmware, and whether
the firmware 2.0.0 will be o.k. for all pics now?

2005\05\10@090742 by Mike Hord

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> > Why not changed it to the new 18F USB parts (also need
> > to change the oscillator to 4Mhz or multiply of 4MHz)?
> >
>
> I think that would be a fine idea.  However, from what I've seen out of
> the corner of my eye, people are having some problems translating C745
> USB
> applications to the 18F USB parts and the C-based environment microchip
> seems
> to be encouraging there...
>
> BillW

I think the fatal flaw there may be pinout.  I'm not certain that the
newer USB parts are pin compatible-  IIRC, the C7x5 PICs use the
RC6/RC7 pins as USB, while at least the 18F that I saw the pinout for
most recently reserves those for a USART and uses RC4/RC5 (again,
from memory) for USB.  It's still worth a look- but at that point, you
almost may as well be writing your own programmer.

Mike H.

2005\05\10@092113 by Mark Rages

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On 5/10/05, RemoveMEkenaswTakeThisOuTspambtinternet.com <spamBeGonekenaswspamBeGonespambtinternet.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

at once" command
was added for version 2.  All the old commands are still there, so it
should be backwards-compatible.

I only have PicKit 1 version 1.0 to test with.  (Does anyone else find
it confusing that the "Pickit 1" can come with "Version 2.x"
firmware?)  I would like to test with newer firmware.  Does anyone
know if there is a flash part comparable with the 16C745?  I could
bootstrap the newer firmware.  Otherwise, I will continue testing with
1.0 firmware.

Actually, I would like to have firmware with the "erase row" command
implemented, so incremental programming could be used to speed the
program->run->debug cycle.  I wrote the Microchip guy credited in the
source and asked about this, but I guess "not supported" means "not
supported".   If I had a compatible flash part to the 16C745, I would
try to add the command myself.  I don't have an EPROM eraser and I
don't really want to deal with EPROM.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one.
 - fortune cookie

2005\05\10@105254 by Kenasw

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Can I have the win32 version of your software, is it ready or are
you currently working on it?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Rages" <markragesEraseMEspam.....gmail.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <EraseMEpiclistspammit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC] Using pickit 1 to program other picmicros


{Quote hidden}

> --

2005\05\10@200923 by Chen Xiao Fan

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Hi Mark,

Maybe you can get a PIC16C745 programmed with Ver 2.02 firmware
from Microchip guys. I got mine from the local Microchip. By
the way, my PICkit 1 is from them as well but was with a ver 0.9
firmware. :)

There is no compatible flash part to the 16C745 right now.

Regards,
Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\10@204516 by Chen Xiao Fan

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It is pin-compatible. I just download the latest datasheet for
the 18F USB parts. I also checked the previous version, nothing
changes for the pin-out. RC4/RC5 are used for USB D-/D+.
RC6/RC7 are used for USART (TX/RX). This is the same as 16C745.

Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\10@211540 by Denny Esterline

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The upgraded firmware is available for download. Just get a new 16C745 and
program it. (sounds like a good use for the samples program :-) Of course
you will need a capable programmer...

Ver 2.02
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en010053

Baring that,
buy.microchip.com/ProductDetails.aspx?Catalog=BuyMicrochip&Category=Getting%20Started%20Programmers&mid=13
offers a pre programmed chip (UK164101) with the latest firmware for $5.00,
and it's also included if you but the Signal Analysis PICtail(TM) Daughter
Board (AC164120) for $25.


-Denny


{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2005\05\10@233717 by William Chops Westfield

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On May 10, 2005, at 5:09 PM, Chen Xiao Fan wrote:

> There is no compatible flash part to the 16C745 right now.
>

The PIC18F2455 is advertised as being pin compatible with the PIC16C745,
but of course the firmware is not compatible at all...

BillW

2005\05\11@041602 by Chen Xiao Fan

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I believe there is a small bug in the device name in usb_pickit.c.
16F635 should be 12F635 and 16F683 should be 12F683.

By the way, 16F639 and 16F685/687/688/690 are not available now.
So your code are able to support all the available
8/14 pin x14 mid-range device just like Microchip Pickit 1 Classic.

Microchip Pickit 1 Baseline application supports the x12 baseline
device like 10F200/202/204/206 (Through adapter), 12F508/509/510
and 16F54/57/59/505 (through ICSP). It says that it required
Firmware 2.01.

Xiaofan

/** Code From usb_pickit.c
       case 0x0fa0:
         deviceName="16F635";
         s->program.inst_len=0x03ff;
         s->program.ee_len=256;
         s->config.save_osccal=0;
         break;          
       case 0x0460:
         deviceName="16F683";
         s->program.inst_len=0x07ff;
         s->program.ee_len=256;
         s->config.save_osccal=0;
         break;
/** End of code        

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\11@042144 by Chen Xiao Fan

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The PICkit 1 firmware and host software source code can be
download from Microchip website. By the way, they have host
software code for the Mac OS X as well.

www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1960
Unsupported Source Code

Here is the revision history for the firmware.

;***************************************************************************
***
;Filename:        PICkit.asm
;Author:        Reston Condit
;Date:                19 September 2003          
;Version:        2.00
;Description:          
;  This firmware is written for the PICkit(TM) 1 FLASH Starter Kit.
;
;***************************************************************************
***
;Revision History:
;  9/19/03        RAC        Added functionality:
;                                Write four words at a time
;                                Transfer data to flash device
;                                Get data from flash device
;                                Abort transfers
;                                Enternally timed writes
;                        Reorganized usb files and PICkit 1 specific code on
;                         specific pages.  All PICkit 1 code is on page 1 of
the
;                         program memory.  All USB related functions are on
page
;                         4 (with the exception of ServiceUSB and several
user
;                         called functions - see top of usb_ch9.asm.)  Have a

;                         look at the pickit.map file for details on memory
;                         organization.  Most of the "pagesel" statements
were
;                         taken out of all the file in order to save space
and
;                         clean up the code                        
;***************************************************************************
***

www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1960
Unsupported Source Code

2005\05\11@043005 by Chen Xiao Fan

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Here is a code snippet from the V170 Pickit 1 classic application.
So it seems that it will support the new 16F785 and 16F91x. Quite
surprised to see 16F627A/628A/16F877A as well. Maybe it is not
implemented yet. I will try this sometime later.

Xiaofan


----------------------------
/** code snippet

' Function CheckBoard looks to see if indeed the PICkit 1 board is attached
' and if there is a device in the socket.
Public Function CheckBoard() As Boolean
   ProgCon.L_Info.BackColor = &H8000000F
   ProgCon.L_Info.Caption = "Checking Device..."
   DoEvents
   ProgrammerVersion = ReadTheVersion
   
   If ProgrammerVersion = "0.0.0" Then
       ProgrammerVersion = "Programmer not found..."
       ProgCon.L_Info.Caption = ProgrammerVersion
       CheckBoard = False
   Else
       InquireDevice
       If (DeviceName = "Not Present") Then
           ProgCon.L_Info.Caption = "Insert Device"
           PowerDownDevice
           CheckBoard = False
       Else ' We have new firmware and a device is present.
           CheckBoard = True
           Select Case DeviceName  ' download the appropriate command table
           Case "PIC12F629", "PIC12F675", "PIC16F630", "PIC16F676"
               Call WriteToDevice(CMDTABLE, &H0, &H2, &H3, &H4, &H5, &H6,
&H8)
               Call WriteToDevice(&H18, &HA, &H9, &HB, &HFF, &HFF, &HFF,
&HFF)
           Case "PIC16F716"
               Call WriteToDevice(CMDTABLE, &H0, &H2, &H3, &H4, &H5, &H6,
&H8)
               Call WriteToDevice(&H18, &HE, &H9, &HB, &HFF, &HFF, &HFF,
&HFF)
           Case "PIC16F627A", "PIC16F628A", "PIC16F648A"
               Call WriteToDevice(CMDTABLE, &H0, &H2, &H3, &H4, &H5, &H6,
&H8)
               Call WriteToDevice(&H18, &HA, &H9, &HB, &HFF, &HFF, &HFF,
&HFF)
           Case "PIC12F635", "PIC16F636", "PIC12F683", "PIC16F684",
"PIC16F688", "PIC16F785"
               Call WriteToDevice(CMDTABLE, &H0, &H2, &H3, &H4, &H5, &H6,
&H8)
               Call WriteToDevice(&H18, &HA, &H9, &HB, &HFF, &HFF, &HFF,
&HFF)
           Case "PIC16F913", "PIC16F914", "PIC16F916", "PIC16F917",
"PIC16F877A"
               Call WriteToDevice(CMDTABLE, &H0, &H2, &H3, &H4, &H5, &H6,
&H8)
               Call WriteToDevice(&H18, &HA, &H9, &HB, &HFF, &HFF, &HFF,
&HFF)
           End Select
           
       End If
   End If
End Function

/** End of code snipet
----------------------------

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\20@035029 by Chen Xiao Fan

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I have tried the V1.70.0 version of the PICKIT 1 Classic
application with 16F648A and 16F877A. It is working for
the 16F648A (tested with the EASYISP firmware for Wisp628).
I believe it should work with 16F627A and 16F628A 18pin
device as well.

For the 16F877A, it does not work properly. It can recognize
the chip but programming failed. Maybe it is because of the
ICSP cable. Maybe it is because of the application is not
really ready for 16F877A.

Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

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