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'[PIC] USB PIC related Links'
2007\10\22@200147 by Xiaofan Chen

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forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=123533

The forum members (including me) have created quite some
good links for USB PIC related links. Hope this helps those
who want to try USB.


Xiaofan
http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2007\10\23@144211 by alan smith

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OK..so every now and then I get the itch to play with USB, but of course till there is a live project....hard to spare the time.
 
 However, seems to me from what I have seen on this forum, the FTDI chip is the easy plug n play method?  I say that from the eye opening class/seminar I took from Cypress a month or so  back.  Using one of the USB enabled PSoC devices, similar to what MC has I assume..built in MAC and PHY so add the connector and majik sauce...but setting up the device ID, endpoints, and everything else was pretty complex.  They have a wizard for it in the software so it made it simple...once you knew what was going on.  But it goes back to inplementing USB in a PIC...how hard is it to really get it going?  How much USB background do you need in order to make it work.  If all it is, emulating some HID device, so you can have 3 endpoints and transfer data back and forth....essentially a serial link.  So for those that have done the USB...and ive seen the demo's....it all "looks" simple.  What about doing it assembly? or is it like the USART modules...setup, enable and fly?

Xiaofan Chen <spam_OUTxiaofancTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
 http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=123533

The forum members (including me) have created quite some
good links for USB PIC related links. Hope this helps those
who want to try USB.


Xiaofan
http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2007\10\24@150123 by Robin Abbott

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face
I converted Microchip's CDC code into a drag and drop component for our own
compiler (WIZ-C), which wasn't too bad a task - except that the silicon has
a bug which meant that spurious bytes are inserted in transmitted packets
unless the timing relationships are exactly correct. I am assuming that you
are looking at the 18F devices, the 16F devices are limited. I believe a 20
pin device is on the way.

I would suggest you look hard at HID or CDC. Understanding the Microchip
libraries is not too difficult to get your head around once you have looked
at them together with the USB standards (which are quite readable and
available from the USB forum). HID or CDC USB can use standard Windows
drivers with a simple INI file and then most compilers/development systems
in Windows can be used relatively easily.

A full custom USB implementation requires you to build a Windows device
driver - which personally I find a magnitude harder than using CDC or HID !
That said Microchip do have an example in their USB libraries.

FTDI is quite an expensive solution which requires you to have many
additional components in your implementation over and above the base PIC.

Robin Abbott
Forest Electronics - Home of WIZ-C ANSI C Compiler for PIC's with RAD Front
end
.....robin.abbottKILLspamspam@spam@fored.co.uk
http://www.fored.co.uk


{Original Message removed}

2007\10\24@150226 by Robin Abbott

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face
Sorry - I meant to add that I am happy to correspond with anyone who wants
to play with USB to share our experiences - email addy below.


Robin Abbott
Forest Electronics - Home of WIZ-C ANSI C Compiler for PIC's with RAD Front
end
robin.abbottspamKILLspamfored.co.uk  
http://www.fored.co.uk


{Original Message removed}

2007\10\24@153309 by Dario Greggio

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Robin Abbott wrote:

> Sorry - I meant to add that I am happy to correspond with anyone who wants
> to play with USB to share our experiences - email addy below.

Hello Robin, I have a fairly good experience with PICs' USB ...
so I'm adding myself to your call :)

--
Ciao, Dario
--
ADPM Synthesis sas - Torino
--
http://www.adpm.tk

2007\10\25@085224 by olin piclist

face picon face
Robin Abbott wrote:
> A full custom USB implementation requires you to build a Windows device
> driver - which personally I find a magnitude harder than using CDC or
> HID !

But I've already done that and made it available
(http://www.embedinc.com/pic/usb.htm).  This USB framework makes use of the
PIC hardware ping pong buffering by using triple software buffers, provides
simple PUT and GET byte interfaces, comes with example firmware and host
test programs, etc.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2007\10\25@100052 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 10/25/07, Robin Abbott <.....robin.abbottKILLspamspam.....fored.co.uk> wrote:
> I converted Microchip's CDC code into a drag and drop component for our own
> compiler (WIZ-C), which wasn't too bad a task - except that the silicon has
> a bug which meant that spurious bytes are inserted in transmitted packets
> unless the timing relationships are exactly correct.

Which silicon bug are you referring to? I've collected a list of
potential firmware frameworks bugs in the Microchip forum thread.
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=275422

The new V1.2 stack solved some problems but not all. The
suspend handling code (sleeping) is still causing problems.

> I am assuming that you
> are looking at the 18F devices, the 16F devices are limited.
> I believe a 20 pin device is on the way.

That would be nice.

>
> I would suggest you look hard at HID or CDC. Understanding the Microchip
> libraries is not too difficult to get your head around once you have looked
> at them together with the USB standards (which are quite readable and
> available from the USB forum). HID or CDC USB can use standard Windows
> drivers with a simple INI file and then most compilers/development systems
> in Windows can be used relatively easily.

Should be INF file. HID normally uses the built-in INF file. CDC-ACM will
require an INF file. However the built-on usbser.sys is not really that
stable. Custom driver from FTDI and Silicon Labs  for their USB Serail device
are much better.

> A full custom USB implementation requires you to build a Windows device
> driver - which personally I find a magnitude harder than using CDC or HID !
> That said Microchip do have an example in their USB libraries.

The driver is not easy but Microchip has already provided the driver
(but not open source and not well documented). You can also
use Windows DDK drivers like bulkusb.

> FTDI is quite an expensive solution which requires you to have many
> additional components in your implementation over and above the
> base PIC.

For USB to serial conversion, I think FTDI is much better than
CDC-ACM with 18F USB. But an 18F USB PICs can do a lot more.

Xiaofan

2007\10\25@100419 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 10/25/07, Olin Lathrop <EraseMEolin_piclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTembedinc.com> wrote:
> Robin Abbott wrote:
> > A full custom USB implementation requires you to build a Windows device
> > driver - which personally I find a magnitude harder than using CDC or
> > HID !
>
> But I've already done that and made it available
> (http://www.embedinc.com/pic/usb.htm).  This USB framework makes use of the
> PIC hardware ping pong buffering by using triple software buffers, provides
> simple PUT and GET byte interfaces, comes with example firmware and host
> test programs, etc.

This is nice and I put this in the top of my links.
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=123533

I am still reading the asm codes but it is not as easy as the
Microchip USB Firmware framework. I prefer to use C18
over ASM for 18F PICs. That being said, to understand
and 18F USB PICs better, it is good to read the assembly
based firmware from Brad Minch and Olin and compare them
with the Microchip stack.

Xiaofan
http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2007\10\25@104336 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:

>>I converted Microchip's CDC code into a drag and drop component for our own
>>compiler (WIZ-C), which wasn't too bad a task - except that the silicon has
>>a bug which meant that spurious bytes are inserted in transmitted packets
>>unless the timing relationships are exactly correct.
>
> Which silicon bug are you referring to? I've collected a list of
> potential firmware frameworks bugs in the Microchip forum thread.
> http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=275422

Hi Xiaofan,
I guess he refers to the USART bug, which used to affect some 18F
devices (24 maybe as well): upon fast back-to-back transmission, a
spurious byte may get inserted in the outgoing stream.

--
Ciao, Dario

2007\10\25@170537 by Robin Abbott

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face
No - this was a silicon bug which caused the USB engine to send 4 spurious
bytes over the interface (causing repeated bus resets). It only happenned
when there were delays between actions on the bus. I am not sure if
Microchip ever admitted this in an errata as their C code worked fine. Check
the Microchip forums for details - several of us had proof of this issue and
raised support tickets.


Robin Abbott
Forest Electronics - Home of WIZ-C ANSI C Compiler for PIC's with RAD Front
end
robin.abbottspamspam_OUTfored.co.uk
http://www.fored.co.uk


{Original Message removed}

2007\10\25@185640 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 10/26/07, Robin Abbott <@spam@robin.abbottKILLspamspamfored.co.uk> wrote:
> No - this was a silicon bug which caused the USB engine to send 4 spurious
> bytes over the interface (causing repeated bus resets). It only happenned
> when there were delays between actions on the bus. I am not sure if
> Microchip ever admitted this in an errata as their C code worked fine. Check
> the Microchip forums for details - several of us had proof of this issue and
> raised support tickets.
>

I think this has been solved with the V1.2 stack.

The bug is reported here:
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=204879

It is also listed in the bug thread:
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=275422&mpage=2

Xiaofan

2007\10\25@190517 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Robin Abbott wrote:

> No - this was a silicon bug which caused the USB engine to send 4 spurious
> bytes over the interface (causing repeated bus resets). It only happenned
> when there were delays between actions on the bus. I am not sure if
> Microchip ever admitted this in an errata as their C code worked fine.

I see Robin, thank you.
I assumed "transmitted packet" as the USART packet.

--
Ciao, Dario

2007\10\29@012721 by Vitaliy

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face
Olin Lathrop wrote:
>> A full custom USB implementation requires you to build a Windows device
>> driver - which personally I find a magnitude harder than using CDC or
>> HID !
>
> But I've already done that and made it available
> (http://www.embedinc.com/pic/usb.htm).  This USB framework makes use of
> the
> PIC hardware ping pong buffering by using triple software buffers,
> provides
> simple PUT and GET byte interfaces, comes with example firmware and host
> test programs, etc.

What does it take to certify the driver w/ Microsoft?


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