Searching \ for '[PIC] Simplest Design Tool' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/devices.htm?key=pic
Search entire site for: 'Simplest Design Tool'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[PIC] Simplest Design Tool'
2005\11\29@021412 by Buehler, Martin

picon face

After getting some soldering experience, my son (8) would like to do
more electronics.
As many things are much easier to do using a controller instead of
discrete logic, i would like to let him use pic controllers.
As writing c-code is a bit difficult to learn for a guy who just learnt
reading, i wonder if there is a simpler way to program a pic.
Any recommendations?
Thanx!
tino

2005\11\29@022147 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Buehler, Martin wrote:

>After getting some soldering experience, my son (8) would like to do
>more electronics.
>As many things are much easier to do using a controller instead of
>discrete logic, i would like to let him use pic controllers.
>As writing c-code is a bit difficult to learn for a guy who just learnt
>reading, i wonder if there is a simpler way to program a pic.
>Any recommendations?
>Thanx!
>tino
>
>  
>
I strongly recommend Wouter's JAL language. Its very easy to learn.

--Bob

--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
spam_OUTattachTakeThisOuTspamengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-777-7606 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

2005\11\29@032721 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I strongly recommend Wouter's JAL language. Its very easy to learn.

IMHO 8 is a bit young for any programming language. And I guess the
introductory material available will be much more important than the
language itself. For Jal do check
http://www.voti.nl/cursus/e_index.html. Like a lot of older stuff it is
16C(!)84 based.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\11\29@034849 by Peter Todd

picon face
part 1 1848 bytes content-type:multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; (decoded quoted-printable)


--tEFtbjk+mNEviIIX
Content-Type: text/plain; charset 2005\11\29@043527 by Kevin
picon face

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Buehler, Martin wrote:

>
> After getting some soldering experience, my son (8) would like to do
> more electronics.
> As many things are much easier to do using a controller instead of
> discrete logic, i would like to let him use pic controllers.
> As writing c-code is a bit difficult to learn for a guy who just learnt
> reading, i wonder if there is a simpler way to program a pic.
> Any recommendations?
> Thanx!
> tino

I would checkout the PICAXE
http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/
It uses a PIC loaded with a tokenized BASIC language.
The software tools are free.
Also, Peter Anderson has some good tutorials and also
prices for the PICAXE
http://www.phanderson.com/picaxe/picaxe.html

I have never used one but have recommended them to a
friend's son and he seems to be getting on quite well
with them.

~Kevin

2005\11\29@043606 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> At my first software job my new boss said that he hired
> me entierly based on my well commented and modular code, dispite the
> fact that my actual programming sucked. :)

Of course you need both (good programming and good structure) but in my
experiece the latter is more rare, so maybe he wanted to create a
'balanced mix'.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu
 

2005\11\29@043721 by Stef Mientki

flavicon
face
as others already mentioned, 8 is quit young.
I started with my 2 children when the were about 9 or 10, with RIS /
Lego MindStorms.
Both could program the Lego Mindstorms within one hour.

My son with the most affinity to technics had seen all corners of RIS
within 1 week,
and jumped to NQC (which he did for a few years).
After 2 years he switched to BASIC87 (very easy pic programming
language, and somewhere there's a nice IDE for it).
After doing half a year BASIC87, he finally switched to JAL, PHP, ...

My other son, with the lowest affinity to technics (but much better at
school, also in math and physics ;-),
has used RIS for 1..2 years, finally he switched to NQC,
and after 5 years, he still finds programming in NQC very difficult.

Stef

Buehler, Martin wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2005\11\29@064458 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu]
>Sent: 29 November 2005 07:14
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: [PIC] Simplest Design Tool
>
>
>
>After getting some soldering experience, my son (8) would like
>to do more electronics. As many things are much easier to do
>using a controller instead of discrete logic, i would like to
>let him use pic controllers. As writing c-code is a bit
>difficult to learn for a guy who just learnt reading, i wonder
>if there is a simpler way to program a pic. Any
>recommendations? Thanx! tino
>
>-

2005\11\29@070248 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu [piclist-bouncesspamspam_OUTmit.edu]
>Sent: 29 November 2005 07:14
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: [PIC] Simplest Design Tool
>
>
>
>After getting some soldering experience, my son (8) would like
>to do more electronics. As many things are much easier to do
>using a controller instead of discrete logic, i would like to
>let him use pic controllers. As writing c-code is a bit
>difficult to learn for a guy who just learnt reading, i wonder
>if there is a simpler way to program a pic. Any
>recommendations? Thanx! tino


Oops, sorry for empty reply.

There are several version of basic for PIC's

http://www.picbasic.org/
http://www.picbasic.co.uk/
http://www.rentron.com/PicBasic/CH_Basic_Compiler.htm

Regards

Mike

=======================================================================
This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The
information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by
law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must
not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any
person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have
received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use,
forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.
No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or
services.
=======================================================================

2005\11\29@073742 by olin piclist

face picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> IMHO 8 is a bit young for any programming language.

I agree.  I think the "youngest" language I've seen is what comes with the
Lego Mindstorm kit.  It's visually stringing blocks together and about as
minimally intimidating as you can make computer programming.  I recommend to
the OP getting a Mindstorm kit and playing with it yourself to see how it
works.  Make the robot do a few cool things and see how much interest your
son has.  Then you can judge when the right time is for him to learn the
programming.  Maybe when that happens you can reinforce it by him getting
his own Mindstorm kit for birthday, christmas, or whatever.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2005\11\29@081138 by Mchipguru

picon face
I agree. I have worked with kids from K-12 with many outreach programs I have developed with the IEEE. When it comes to starting to program the Mindstorms Kits are great. They get to see real results quickly and learn basic cause and effect from the programming. After they get beyond the initial building block approach there are other alternatives including NQC (not quite C). There is really a lot to be learned even from the programming environment provided in the basic system.
Larry
{Quote hidden}

> --

2005\11\29@082014 by Danny Sauer

flavicon
face
Buehler, wrote regarding '[PIC] Simplest Design Tool' on Tue, Nov 29 at 01:21:
>
> After getting some soldering experience, my son (8) would like to do
> more electronics.
> As many things are much easier to do using a controller instead of
> discrete logic, i would like to let him use pic controllers.
> As writing c-code is a bit difficult to learn for a guy who just learnt
> reading, i wonder if there is a simpler way to program a pic.

He's gonna have to understand simple boolean logic to understand
program flow control - which is rather a large part of lots o'
programs.  Starting with discrete logic might actually make sense, as
something like a truth table is fairly easy to grasp without
programming skills.  He's gonna have to learn that either way (if
programming), so why not start with that and then transition to
microcontrollers when the "if this and this then that" is more clear?

As far as a first language, it might be good to start with something
which is close to a natural language, so he can look at existing
programs and sort of figure out what they're doing.  I guess that
depends on whether he learns better by doing/example or by learning
theory and applying it.  From my education background, it seems like
more people learn by example - so I'd suggest finding something which
has the easiest to follow examples.

--Danny

2005\11\29@084231 by olin piclist

face picon face
Danny Sauer wrote:
> He's gonna have to understand simple boolean logic to understand
> program flow control

I disagree.  A computer program is a set of instructions to follow, like a
recipe.  Turn motor on, wait 3 seconds, turn motor off, turn on light.  This
is something a kid can follow.  If you try to bring boolean logic into it or
make it sound like programming is "complicated", you'll just turn him off.
Let him get the basics first, which don't require boolean logic.  Then add
more stuff as his interest supports.  At that age, if it isn't fun, it isn't
going to get learned.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2005\11\29@084236 by Maarten Hofman

face picon face
> IMHO 8 is a bit young for any programming language. And I guess the
> introductory material available will be much more important than the
> language itself. For Jal do check
> http://www.voti.nl/cursus/e_index.html. Like a lot of older stuff it is
> 16C(!)84 based.

I'm not sure whether age is the most relevant factor. Of course, I
started when I was 10, but that was because I didn't know computers
existed before that time. However, this Thanksgiving I met two
children and showed them how to use the PicKit 2 and program in
assembly. The boy of 10 had great difficulty with it, however, his 6
year old sister knew exactly what needed to be done, and even
converted 4 bit binary numbers back and forth to decimal.

That said, I agree with other people on this list that LEGO Mindstorms
is probably the best way to be introduced to programming.
Unfortunately, it is also rather expensive (though you get a lot of
parts with it as well).

Greetings,
Maarten Hofman.

2005\11\29@090900 by Danny Sauer

flavicon
face
Olin wrote regarding 'Re: [PIC] Simplest Design Tool' on Tue, Nov 29 at 07:50:
> Danny Sauer wrote:
> >He's gonna have to understand simple boolean logic to understand
> >program flow control
>
> more stuff as his interest supports.  At that age, if it isn't fun, it isn't
> going to get learned.

I'm talking about things like AND/OR/NOT and basic combinations
therof, not Boolean algebra and the various operations implied.  I
found it fun at that age.  My first electronics project was a robot
with movable photosensors on the front and a breadboard where I could
combine simple gates to determine the direction of a motor on either
side.  It followed a while line on a black background.  It was just
simple boolean logic (and a "someone else made it" transistor array
for motor control), and was quite a lot of fun.

Then, perhaps I wasn't a normal kid, since I had more fun figuring out
the logic involved than actually running the robot...  You're probably
right. :)

--Danny

2005\11\29@090937 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Buehler, Martin wrote:

> After getting some soldering experience, my son (8) would like to do
> more electronics.
> As many things are much easier to do using a controller instead of
> discrete logic, i would like to let him use pic controllers.
> As writing c-code is a bit difficult to learn for a guy who just learnt
> reading, i wonder if there is a simpler way to program a pic.

Not sure about PICs, but Logo is a language that's designed for that age,
and apparently used with success. If there is no PIC Logo available, maybe
it's easier to introduce him to programming concepts in general on the PC,
and a little later take that knowledge to the PIC?

Gerhard

2005\11\29@165723 by Daniel Chia

flavicon
face
       I would second wouter's opinion. I think 10 or 11 is a better
age to start some on programming at an early age. However if he's really
keen I would really recommend JAL over C, as it Pascal-kinda style is
more understandable than normal C.
       It would also help to isolate him from the nasties and keep him
high-level with a lot of library functions.

       Of course, that's just my 2 cents.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Chia

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent
perspiration."

    - Thomas Edison

E-mail: RemoveMEdanielcjhTakeThisOuTspamyahoo.com.sg
MSN: spamBeGonedanstryder01spamBeGonespamyahoo.com.sg
ICQ: 37878331
------------------------------------------------------------------------


> {Original Message removed}

2005\11\30@052514 by Bill & Pookie

picon face
Radio Shack (Tandy) makes a set of fixed components and connection means for
learning electronics and doing experiments.  Great for learning DC theory
and solid state devices.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Chia" <TakeThisOuTdanielcjhEraseMEspamspam_OUTyahoo.com.sg>
To: "'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'" <RemoveMEpiclistspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:19 AM
Subject: RE: [PIC] Simplest Design Tool


{Quote hidden}

>> {Original Message removed}

2005\11\30@161103 by Steph Smith

flavicon
face
One of the easiest starter packages is the Chip factory
from Revolution electronics (rev.ed.co.uk) here in the U.K. it runs a simple version of basic but programs standard PIC's;unlike the slightly more advanced picaxe system which requires the pre programmed (bootloader) PIC's.(Although they are inexpensive;postage could add up).Also available is a really simple kit which uses a standard P.C. keyboard to program the blank PIC on a little circuit board.As both these,and their associated project boards, are aimed at school kids they should be a great starter for a trainee geek!


'[PIC] Simplest Design Tool'
2005\12\02@102618 by Buehler, Martin
picon face
looks quite nice. i'd like to look at it a bit closer
is there a printable doc on jal anywhere? html doc is quite a pain to
print out...
tino

************************************************************************
******************************


>{Original Message removed}

2005\12\02@102800 by Buehler, Martin

picon face
i once heard about logo, and i wonder if there's something like that for
a pic ?!?
tino

************************************************************************
******************************


>{Original Message removed}

2005\12\02@103352 by Buehler, Martin

picon face
at a first glace, the revolution electronics program editor looks
great...
...but i checked it out and it looks like this thing does not work.
looks like i first have to buy a $100 revolution programmer to enable
the software...and test it...but i do have a pic programmer and do not
need another one...
did i misunderstand something?
tino

************************************************************************
******************************


>{Original Message removed}

2005\12\02@103918 by Buehler, Martin

picon face
this looks quite nice, but i think i have to buy the whole picaxe design
environment, although i already have a complete pic design environment
for c programming. right?
tino

************************************************************************
******************************


>{Original Message removed}

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2005 , 2006 only
- Today
- New search...