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'[PIC] SD Card Compatibility'
2009\05\14@183617 by Tony Vandiver

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Hi All,

   I have implemented a board with an SD card bootloader and when I did
it, I was using an off the shelf Toshiba 2GB card that seems to work
well.  I have since gone to the local stores to get more brands and more
sizes, and bought a few SDHC cards which don't seem to work worth a
flip, but they were the only things on the shelf (4GB to 16GB).  I have
read some things on the Microchip forums about the library code not
being compatible with SDHC, and I've given up on that for the moment,
but I want to verify that other card manufacturers and sizes < 4GB work
with this system.  Does anyone have any direct experience with a
particular SD card that worked or didn't work with the SD card library
code?  I was going to try and buy one of everything so that I knew what
to expect, but wow there are a lot of sizes and manufacturers, and I
can't seem to find a vendor that has them all in stock.  I suppose I'm
wanting to mainly know about 64MB to 2GB and mainly Sandisk, Toshiba,
PNY, Ultra, and Transcend.

Thanks,

Tony

2009\05\14@184844 by Kevin Jones

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SD & SDHC use different protocols such that an
SDHC is not backwards compatible with SD.
So they are truly not the same animal. Anything 4GB and above is SDHC.

I would suggest going over to e-bay and looking for some used & new
cards to test with on the cheap.
I've picked up 1gb name brand SD cards there for as little as $3
each. Plus they cost practically
nothing to ship first class mail, if they are not in the original packaging.

Regards,
Kevin Jones

2009\05\15@035345 by Nicola Perotto

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Tony Vandiver wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>     I have implemented a board with an SD card bootloader and when I did
> it, I was using an off the shelf Toshiba 2GB card that seems to work
> well.  I have since gone to the local stores to get more brands and more
> sizes, and bought a few SDHC cards which don't seem to work worth a
> flip, but they were the only things on the shelf (4GB to 16GB).  I have
> read some things on the Microchip forums about the library code not
> being compatible with SDHC,
There are two main differences from SD to SDHC:
1) small changes in internal register CSD to accomodate the bigger size
2) cant uses FAT16 because it's limited to 2GB then uses FAT32
Work to do but not difficult.
       Nic


2009\05\15@082255 by Harold Hallikainen

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> There are two main differences from SD to SDHC:
> 1) small changes in internal register CSD to accomodate the bigger size
> 2) cant uses FAT16 because it's limited to 2GB then uses FAT32
> Work to do but not difficult.
>         Nic

I haven't worked with it in a couple years, but
www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2680&dDocName=jp537999
seems to indicate that Microchip's FAT supports FAT32. So, does it support
SDHC?

Harold

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FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com - Advertising
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2009\05\15@235840 by Tony Vandiver

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FWIW, I have SUPPORT_FAT32 defined in FSConfig.h so I suspect there's
more to supporting SDHC, but since I'm also having trouble with a 128MB
Sandisk card, I'm wondering how "universal" the library implementation
is.  Come to think of it, I wonder if the 128MB card (field problem
report so I don't know what the formatting is yet) is formatted for
FAT16, and whether that could be incompatible with the SUPPORT_FAT32
definition.  I mean, it sounds like it should support either with this
option set, but I haven't proven that yet.

Thanks,

Tony


Harold Hallikainen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\05\27@174140 by Bob Axtell

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I ran into a problem like that, and found some low-end parts (for an
older digital camera) on the web, but have forgotten the link. Dig;
try MMC cards (they are almost the same, I think)



On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Kevin Jones <spam_OUTkrjone01TakeThisOuTspamaye.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\05\27@175133 by Harold Hallikainen

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> I ran into a problem like that, and found some low-end parts (for an
> older digital camera) on the web, but have forgotten the link. Dig;
> try MMC cards (they are almost the same, I think)
>

I understand that SD is MMC with a copy protection method (Secure digital)
that no one uses. But, SD is "more modern," so MMC is difficult to find
now.

On backward compatibility, I imagine there are a lot of consumer goods out
there that were manufactured before SDHD (or whatever it's called). Will
the standard SD cards become unavailable at retail and, if the new cards
are truly incompatible, make these products obsolete?

Harold


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opportunities available!

2009\05\27@183239 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On May 27, 2009, at 3:00 PM, Harold Hallikainen wrote:

> On backward compatibility, I imagine there are a lot of consumer  
> goods out
> there that were manufactured before SDHD (or whatever it's called).  
> Will
> the standard SD cards become unavailable at retail and, if the new  
> cards
> are truly incompatible, make these products obsolete?

I'd expect 2G SD (not HD) cards to continue to be available from  
specialty dealers (camera stores, for example) for quite a long time,  
probably stagnating in price and rapidly deteriorating in "value"  
compared to higher-capacity SDHC cards.  So you'd see 2G SD card for  
$10, and 16GB SDHC for $20...  I don't see the 2G level technology  
disappearing soon; it's too close to what are supposed to be  
fundamental limits of semiconductor process technology (ie as long as  
flash is the dominant technology, it ought to be economical for  
someone to make 2GB flash chips.)

BillW

2009\05\27@192703 by Marcel Duchamp

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William "Chops" Westfield wrote:

> flash is the dominant technology, it ought to be economical for  
> someone to make 2GB flash chips.)
>
> BillW
>

Yup.  It's still economical to make 32MB parts.  Many new cameras are
shipped with them.  A non-techie friend bought one a few months back and
was surprised that the camera told him the card was full after taking
only 5 photos.

2009\05\28@060310 by Tony Smith

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> > flash is the dominant technology, it ought to be economical for
> > someone to make 2GB flash chips.)
> >
> > BillW
> >
>
> Yup.  It's still economical to make 32MB parts.  Many new cameras are
> shipped with them.  A non-techie friend bought one a few months back and
> was surprised that the camera told him the card was full after taking
> only 5 photos.


Starter cards.  Ask nicely and a camera shop will give you a handful.
Useless for cameras, but IDE adapters are cheap (SD & CF now) so you can
them as drives in dedicated PCs.  CNC is a good example, OS & program on
one, data on the other.  (It's like the 1970's all over again...)

There's always data loggers as well.

Tony

2009\05\28@061751 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 12:12 AM, Marcel Duchamp <
.....marcel.duchampKILLspamspam@spam@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Yup.  It's still economical to make 32MB parts.  Many new cameras are
> shipped with them.  A non-techie friend bought one a few months back and
> was surprised that the camera told him the card was full after taking
> only 5 photos.
>

Not sure if that worth as production wise, however, as a business it is
"great"... If you think it over it is just enough to try your camera in the
shop, but then you need to put some extra onto the bill to get a useful
memory card...

Tamas
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http://www.mcuhobby.com

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