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'[PIC] Re: Of serial and parallel programmers'
2005\10\10@083249 by Vasile Surducan

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On 10/9/05, Anand Dhuru <spam_OUTardhuruTakeThisOuTspamvsnl.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have two self assembled prgrammers; an EPIC clone (parallel port, David
> Tait type) that works happily with *all* flash chips. My serial programmer
> (a JDM compatible) worked with all PICs as well, till I tried the 16F628A
> (no problems with the 16F628)
>
> Now here is the funny part. New chips fresh from the tube cant be read or
> written. If one of these is programmed in the EPIC, then one *can* read it
> in the JDM compatible. But if you erase it, then again one cant read it (and
> of course write to it) *unless* you program it in the EPIC again.

Never seen this behaviour. I'm using the same programmers (more or
less) like you. A good parallel programmer will *always* read a fresh
device.
The serial JDM style programmers fails on COM ports which does not
assure the programming current (ie the ICSP methode with high loads on
Sclk and Sdat).

>
> This observation led me to beleive it was to do with the LVP pin, perhaps.
> So, I tried grounding the LVP pin the the JDM, but I still have no success.

LVP is supercedeed by HVP. So any HVP is able to write LVP config
fuses. There is no relation between those if you are using HVP.

>
> I tried 2 different programmer software(s?), with the same result.
>
> Is there something obvious I am missing?
>
> BTW, both programmers are being used on a desktop with XP (no problem of an
> under-powered serial port).

Try to move on other operating system and see what you've got.
Or maybe you have some hardware problems on your programmers.

cheers,
Vasile

2005\10\10@093058 by Alan B. Pearce

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> I have two self assembled prgrammers; an EPIC clone (parallel port, David
> Tait type) that works happily with *all* flash chips. My serial programmer
> (a JDM compatible) worked with all PICs as well, till I tried the 16F628A
> (no problems with the 16F628)
>
> Now here is the funny part. New chips fresh from the tube cant be read or
> written. If one of these is programmed in the EPIC, then one *can* read it
> in the JDM compatible. But if you erase it, then again one cant read it
(and
> of course write to it) *unless* you program it in the EPIC again.

You are aware that the A version uses a different program algorithm? This is
probably your problem, if you do not select the correct part in the
selection. If the A part is not available as an option, then you will not be
able to do it with this software.

2005\10\10@095524 by Anand Dhuru

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>
> You are aware that the A version uses a different program algorithm? This
> is
> probably your problem, if you do not select the correct part in the
> selection. If the A part is not available as an option, then you will not
> be
> able to do it with this software.

All the packages I tried did have the 16F628A option. (WinPIC, WinPIC800 and
IC-PROG).

Regards,

Anand

2005\10\10@131658 by Vasile Surducan

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On 10/10/05, Anand Dhuru <.....ardhuruKILLspamspam@spam@vsnl.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > You are aware that the A version uses a different program algorithm? This
>
> > is
> > probably your problem, if you do not select the correct part in the
> > selection. If the A part is not available as an option, then you will not
>
> > be
> > able to do it with this software.
>
> All the packages I tried did have the 16F628A option. (WinPIC, WinPIC800 and

Nigel's Goodwin and Bony's Gijzen software, you are talking about,
works perfect with Tait (HVP or LVP) and JDM hardware. Those are my
favourites software programmers. You miss something and I don't know
what.

Vasile

2005\10\10@230245 by Chen Xiao Fan

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I have never used any of these packages but I have read quite
some good comments about Winpic and Winpic800. WinPIC800
seems to be very impressive by supporting large amount
of chips including dsPIC. I guess GTP-USB (a PIC programmer
by the author of WinPIC800) will be quite happy to support
dsPICs. But WinPIC800/IC-Prog claims to support many simple
programmers like JDM/Tait/... How reliable when using JDM/Tait
with WinPIC800 or WinPIC or IC-Prog?

I have heard enough bad thing about JDM. I have not heard
too much bad things about Tait type. In fact some of the
variants seems to support lots of PICs. What is the major
difference? Is Tait type really much more reliable than
JDM? Or is it that Tait type is not so popular so that
there are less problems reported?

Regards,
Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

2005\10\11@082800 by Anand Dhuru

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chen Xiao Fan" <xiaofanspamKILLspamsg.pepperl-fuchs.com>
To: "'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'" <.....piclistKILLspamspam.....mit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: [PIC] Re: Of serial and parallel programmers


>I have never used any of these packages but I have read quite
> some good comments about Winpic and Winpic800. WinPIC800
> seems to be very impressive by supporting large amount
> of chips including dsPIC. I guess GTP-USB (a PIC programmer
> by the author of WinPIC800) will be quite happy to support
> dsPICs. But WinPIC800/IC-Prog claims to support many simple
> programmers like JDM/Tait/... How reliable when using JDM/Tait
> with WinPIC800 or WinPIC or IC-Prog?

Both packages (Winpic and WinPIC800) are excellent, and *way* faster than
ICPROG. They both support a lot of standard hardware designs, both serial
port and parallel port based. They both also have a hardware test feature
that one can use to manually toggle clock, data, Vpp lines to ensure that
the sleceted option is right for your hardware. Winpic lets you create
custom files for PICs not yet defined in its library, though most already
are. In addition, Winpic800 has a feature that detects the PIC in the socket
which I find useful so that one doesnt have to change the selected device
from PIC to PIC.

The packages themselves are both pretty reliable. When it comes to hardware,
the JDM (and the variants) are very finnicky about the serial port, but I
have not had a problem till the current one concerning 16F628As. The
parallel port EPIC (a Tait type), on the other hand has never let me down,
accross a number of devices. >

> I have heard enough bad thing about JDM. I have not heard
> too much bad things about Tait type. In fact some of the
> variants seems to support lots of PICs. What is the major
> difference? Is Tait type really much more reliable than

To sum up, yes. The Tait type is definately more dependable.

> JDM? Or is it that Tait type is not so popular so that
> there are less problems reported?

I dont think so; they are as, if not more popular. The parallel port
programmers are inherently more reliable as they dont rely on the RS232's
voltages for Vpp generation; they use an external supply.

Regards,

Anand

2005\10\11@084313 by Xiaofan Chen

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Does the Tait Type support dsPICs with WinPIC800/WinPIC?
Are there any similar package under Linux for Tait type which
supports many PICs and even dsPICs? Sorry I have no
idea of any Tait type programmers.

{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\10\11@110324 by Anand Dhuru

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> Does the Tait Type support dsPICs with WinPIC800/WinPIC?
> Are there any similar package under Linux for Tait type which
> supports many PICs and even dsPICs? Sorry I have no
> idea of any Tait type programmers.
>
Yes, they do. The version I have is a home made clone of the EPIC, which is
a classic Tait design variant.

It works with both Winpic, Winpic800, and of course the bundled EPIC
software. The programmer is availabe from http://www.melabs.com, or one can build
one's own.

Regards,

Anand

2005\10\13@062518 by Vasile Surducan

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On 10/11/05, Chen Xiao Fan <EraseMExiaofanspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTsg.pepperl-fuchs.com> wrote:
> I have never used any of these packages

Because probably you never had the curiosity to check who written the
IC prog for example ... and you are maybe too young to heard about
David Tait LPT programmer and the hardware difference between Tait and
JDM. Tait is not only the most popular, but was also cloned by
Microchip into an application note which was published on the web
after (or anyway, in the same time) the Tait LPT programmer.

:)

cheers,
Vasile

but I have read quite
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2005\10\13@070937 by Xiaofan Chen

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Yes I am quite young with PIC, slightly less than  6 years old and
with one and half a year break. The problem is that started with
Promate II/ICE2000/Hitech PICC 7.85 and I started to feel I should
think like a hobbyist only last year when I decide to join PIClist.

I did tried PonyProg long ago but I was using it to program
EEPROMs for the ASi bus ( actuator-sensor interface) device.
Later the EEPROMs are integrated into the ASi ASIC and it was
not used any more.

I have looked at IC-Prog before to replace PonyProg. But to be honest,
I just noticed the name of the author after your post. Is he very famous?
I am wondering if I should feel embarassed if it turns out that he is really
very very famous. ;-)

However, COM port and LPT port are both considered as legacy ports.
Therefore I think JDM/Tait should also be considered as legacy. Maybe
many people will think I am wrong but I feel the future of the programmers
are USB based last year when I started to use PICkit 1. I feel even more
so after I bought the PICkit 2.

Regards,
Xiaofan

On 10/13/05, Vasile Surducan  wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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