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'[PIC] PicKit2 current state'
2008\10\12@134408 by Dr Skip

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I don't have one, and I'm not deep on Microchip's day to day product evolution,
but I've periodically seen talk of problems with the PicKit 2 on the list, and
some revs that are good and some that are broken, some that have red buttons
and some that have black ones, etc.

Can anyone advise whether the current, as-sold-on-their-website version has any
problems or is it a 'good' one? I am depending on your wisdom.

A specific part number or link would be appreciated if there are different
'versions' and only one or two are worthy. ;)

Thanks,
Skip

2008\10\12@140259 by Bob Blick

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Hi Skip,

Maybe a few early ones the early adopters got were bad. But I personally
have three of them and they all work fine. The only thing that I've had
problems with is the connector wearing out from overuse/abuse, and
that's easy enough to change.

Oh, after using the PicKit 2, don't expect to use the same USB port on
your computer for anything else until you reboot. But the other USB
ports will be unaffected.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

Dr Skip wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\10\12@151131 by Marc Nicholas

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I have a fairly new PICkit2 and have had no problems to speak of.

The last few firmware releases have added some really nice features,  
too.

Agreed on the connector.

-marc

Sent from my iPhone

On 12-Oct-08, at 14:02, Bob Blick <spam_OUTbobblickTakeThisOuTspamftml.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2008\10\12@152114 by Timothy J. Weber

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Dr Skip wrote:
> I don't have one, and I'm not deep on Microchip's day to day product evolution,
> but I've periodically seen talk of problems with the PicKit 2 on the list, and
> some revs that are good and some that are broken, some that have red buttons
> and some that have black ones, etc.

The red buttons were used later, when the stock units added support for
debugging, in the form of pull-downs on PGC and PGD IIRC.

The black-buttoned ones don't have this, but there are instructions for
adding them and it's not hard to do.

One would hope that current sales are all red buttons, as this was over
a year ago now (my PDF file describing the fix is dated 4/10/07) -
though who knows!
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2008\10\12@202028 by Dr Skip

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Thanks for the info. I see there are 2 versions - starter express and debug
express for the same price. Why? It seems the debug one has much more function,
but maybe it's limited in other ways? One has the 16F690 (good enough for the
current application I'm starting on, but many would do) and the other the
16F887, debug tutorials, and a FREE CCS PCM™ Midrange C Compiler Demo* for
PIC16F887. Both demo boards will do, but one is modest and the other seems like
a lot.

Am I missing something? Even the demo boards for each are the same price! If
one bought one pickit version (which comes with demo board) and bought the
other demo board to add on, is there a difference?

Thanks again,
Skip



Bob Blick wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> Dr Skip wrote:

2008\10\12@210431 by Bob Blick

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Hi Skip,

The 887 board is very nice, that's the one I would recommend.

I bet they both come with the same software CD.

Cheerful regards,

Bob


Dr Skip wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>> Dr Skip wrote:

2008\10\12@213626 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:20 AM, Dr Skip <.....drskipKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the info. I see there are 2 versions - starter express and debug
> express for the same price. Why? It seems the debug one has much more function,
> but maybe it's limited in other ways? One has the 16F690 (good enough for the
> current application I'm starting on, but many would do) and the other the
> 16F887, debug tutorials, and a FREE CCS PCM™ Midrange C Compiler Demo* for
> PIC16F887. Both demo boards will do, but one is modest and the other seems like
> a lot.
>
> Am I missing something? Even the demo boards for each are the same price! If
> one bought one pickit version (which comes with demo board) and bought the
> other demo board to add on, is there a difference?
>

There are actually three versions.
1) PICKit 2 Programmer/Debugger
2) PICKit 2 + PIC16F690 based demo board (Starter Express)
3) PICKit 2 + PIC16F887 based demo board (Debug Express). There was
an older version which uses PIC16F917.

If you do not need demo board, 1) at US$35 is a good choice.
2) is also a good choice as it has a socket which can adopt
all 8/14/20 pin PICs. These 8/14/20pin PICs do not have
ICSP debugging function in their silicon. You need to buy
special header (same as ICD 2) to debug the chip.
3) is also a good choice as you can try out the debugging
function on the board. 16F887 (as well as 16F917) has the
debug function silicon inside.

PICkit 2 Faq here:
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=270347

Regards,
Xiaofan

2008\10\12@214905 by Marc Nicholas

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Get the debug express :)

But to be honest, neither board fit my needs. But I still got the  
debug express :)

-marc

Sent from my iPhone

On 12-Oct-08, at 20:20, Dr Skip <drskipspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\10\12@215212 by Marc Nicholas

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I should also mention it was good advice from Xiaofan that lead to me  
getting a PICkit 2.

Sent from my iPhone

On 12-Oct-08, at 21:36, "Xiaofan Chen" <.....xiaofancKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\10\12@224645 by Dr Skip

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Good advice. Debug Express it is. The incremental cost makes it only $15 for
the demo board and chip, so not too bad... If the one without demo board comes
with the debug material anyway, I might go that way based on the answer to the
question below (second one).

A couple of questions though, as I'm getting overwhelmed at what they offer
again... :-O

Does anyone use the Serial Analyzer?
www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en028600
It looks like it comes with a preprogrammed PIC that just does some play comm,
right? While I'm not doing any comm on this one, is there anything here that
can be used in a comm-type project, or is it just educational?

And if I was going to use the 16F887 in other one-off projects, but wanted to
use the 40 pin dip (or other chips with or without the debugger but in dip
packaging), and typically using the internal osc, what's the best setup to
program the dip version? The demo boards are all the small square chips. Should
I rework a demo board, or piggyback or ...? In other words, I'd use the dip
chip for everything afterward.

Thanks for your patience. ;)

Skip





2008\10\12@232212 by Bob Blick

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Dr Skip wrote:
> And if I was going to use the 16F887 in other one-off projects, but wanted to
> use the 40 pin dip (or other chips with or without the debugger but in dip
> packaging), and typically using the internal osc, what's the best setup to
> program the dip version? The demo boards are all the small square chips. Should
> I rework a demo board, or piggyback or ...? In other words, I'd use the dip
> chip for everything afterward.

The demo board has an SMD '887 on it. If you want to program DIPs you
will need to put a 1x6 header connector on your target board or build a
board with a socket and 1x6 connector on it.

But if you plan on using it as a debugger you'll want to put a header on
your target board anyway.

Cheers,

Bob

2008\10\12@232622 by Forrest W Christian

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I'll add to everyone else's comments and say that I have several
different ICD's (ICD-U40, ICD-S40, Mikro-E PicFlash2, and the Pickit2) -
and the Pickit2 is by far my favorite.   I'm actually thinking of
getting another one for use when I'm developing communication code
between two pics and as such need to have two ICD's hooked up at once
(today I use the ICD-U40, and the Pickit2).

-forrestc

Dr Skip wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\10\13@015734 by John Chung

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Pickit 2 is the same version(hw/sw) for both packages?

John


--- On Mon, 10/13/08, Marc Nicholas <geekythingspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> > --

2008\10\13@020909 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 1:57 PM, John Chung <TakeThisOuTkravnusEraseMEspamspam_OUTyahoo.com> wrote:
> Pickit 2 is the same version(hw/sw) for both packages?
>

Yes.

Xiaofan

2008\10\13@033346 by Jon Chandler

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A great addition to the PICKit 2 is available on ebay - a small pcb with
ZIF sockets for 18, 20, 28 and 40 pin PICs, wired to a six pin ICSP
connector.  I ordered one of these and it works great.  I spot-checked
for a number of PICs and the connections were correct for all of them.

You can see the board here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PIC-kit-2-ICD2-COMPATIBLE-PROGRAMMER-EXTENSION-PICkit-2_W0QQitemZ170270483706QQihZ007QQcategoryZ4661QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If the link doesn't work, search on "PIC kit 2 ICD2 COMPATIBLE
PROGRAMMER EXTENSION" and you should be able to find them.

Jon

Xiaofan Chen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\10\13@035522 by Wouter van Ooijen

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Jon Chandler wrote:
> A great addition to the PICKit 2 is available on ebay - a small pcb with
> ZIF sockets for 18, 20, 28 and 40 pin PICs, wired to a six pin ICSP
> connector.  I ordered one of these and it works great.

$9.95 for a PCB with three ZIFs is very cheap. No snags, no rocket-high
shipping fee or other problems?

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2008\10\13@041610 by Roger, in Bangkok

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USD25.50 + USD2.45 insurance outside US :-(

RiB

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Wouter van Ooijen <RemoveMEwouterspamTakeThisOuTvoti.nl> wrote:

> ...
> $9.95 for a PCB with three ZIFs is very cheap. No snags, no rocket-high
> shipping fee or other problems?
>
> --
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>

2008\10\13@085046 by Dr Skip

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Since it doesn't look like there any other components on this board, can the
PIC be programmed with the Pickit2 without an external osc or even a pullup
resistor?

-Skip

Jon Chandler wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\10\13@091106 by Tamas Rudnai

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> Since it doesn't look like there any other components on this board, can the
> PIC be programmed with the Pickit2 without an external osc or even a pullup
> resistor?

Yes, you do not need ext.osc. For that board you need a PICkit2, where
you already have the pull-down resistors on the PGC-PGD lines - at
least for the newer ones, the so called "red-button" ones. I have an
old one (black-button) actually and have had no problem programming
PICs, but anyway, I have made those modifications that Microchip
advised so now I it works just like it was a red-button one. Maybe I
am lucky but I have never noticed any problems since the modification
(nor before) even when used as a debugger.

Tamas


On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Dr Skip <drskipEraseMEspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\10\13@091523 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Dr Skip <EraseMEdrskipspamgmail.com> wrote:
> Since it doesn't look like there any other components on this board, can the
> PIC be programmed with the Pickit2 without an external osc or even a pullup
> resistor?

I do not see any capacitors on board and this might be a problem.
However, there are female machine pins out there, so I think you
can put external capacitors if necessary.

I have one from PIC16.com, it programs many chips fine since it
has the necessary caps, but not PIC18J and PIC24/dsPICs since
it is not designed for them.

What I have is an old version of QL1201 (free from my friend who bought
the ICD 2 clone and got QL1201 as a free gift).
http://www.pic16.com/wzcapi/mcd2ad.htm

The new version seems to solve the Vpp before Vdd issue for
ICD2. From the website, QL1201 uses chip sockets and cost
about US$8. QL1202 uses better imported Chiptool sockets
and costs about US$16. But the problem is that the guy
normally does not accept foreign ordering due to shipment
costs out of China. You know it is not cheap at all to ship
things out of China as the post office and local Fedex/UPS/DHL
all charge high cost.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2008\10\13@100021 by Timothy J. Weber

face picon face
Bob Blick wrote:
>
> Dr Skip wrote:
>> And if I was going to use the 16F887 in other one-off projects, but wanted to
>> use the 40 pin dip (or other chips with or without the debugger but in dip
>> packaging), and typically using the internal osc, what's the best setup to
>> program the dip version? The demo boards are all the small square chips. Should
>> I rework a demo board, or piggyback or ...? In other words, I'd use the dip
>> chip for everything afterward.
>
> The demo board has an SMD '887 on it. If you want to program DIPs you
> will need to put a 1x6 header connector on your target board or build a
> board with a socket and 1x6 connector on it.
>
> But if you plan on using it as a debugger you'll want to put a header on
> your target board anyway.

I tend to use solderless breadboards to prototype things, so I made a
little adapter that plugs into the PICkit2 and then connects to five
color-coded solid-core wires that I can plug into my current breadboard
project.

But if you're making PCBs, that 1x6 header is all you need.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2008\10\13@100727 by Funny NYPD

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Sure it can. Check out this tutorial:
http://www.auelectronics.com/Q8.htm

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com



{Original Message removed}

2008\10\13@102410 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Dr Skip wrote:

> can the
> PIC be programmed with the Pickit2 without an external osc...

Not only with the PICkit2, always.

> or even a pullup resistor?

Pullup for what ?

Jan-Erik.

2008\10\13@105032 by Jon Chandler

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The seller shipped via priority mail at cost, so no outrageous charges.

There was a bit of confusion regarding shipping, as he used an
out-of-date address in my profile rather than the address I asked him to
use, but he sent a replacement as soon as we figured out why the
original shipment didn't arrive.

Very happy all-in-all.


Jon

Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\10\13@112721 by Marc Nicholas

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Thanks for the tip - exactly what I need for my PICkit.

Shipping came to $19.95 to the Great White North. While not  
outrageous, I'm not sure that's cost ;)

-marc

Sent from my iPhone

On 13-Oct-08, at 10:49, Jon Chandler <RemoveMEchandlerEraseMEspamEraseMEseanet.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2008\10\16@010522 by Dr Skip

picon face
I got it and must say it is SWEET...

For the record, I verified on the disks and with Microchip directly that all of
 the software and other files and resources are the same for all versions. The
extra $15 over the 'Pickit2 only' version just gets the additional board with
chip on it. The logic tool, logic analyzer and USART functions on it will come
in handy too!

Thanks for the advice.
-Skip

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